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[SF] Star Fraction and Daisho Syndicate Peace Talks - KBP Summit

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Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.21 21:00:00 - [91] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave To use the term debate implies you are willing to discuss thing rather than insult people. Again: Please explain how you can both be holding to your principles and compromise It's nice to get through a day without being gratuitously insulted for no apparent reason. However I was hoping for an explanation Jade: How did you reconcile Star Fraction's principles and the compromises you had to make to secure this peace deal?
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.21 21:12:00 - [92] I would guess Star Fraction is learning that life for a space holding alliance is a little more complex. It will be interesting to see how they fare with this. It would appear on the surface that their long held principles do clash with the necessities of holding space. But I am sure they will adapt and make what compromises they need to survive.
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:34:00 - [93] Originally by: Xina Tutor But I am sure they will adapt and make what compromises they need to survive. Actually, Jade already admitted compromises were made securing the peace deal with Daisho. I was interested in finding out how Star Fraction reconciled the compromises made with their principles. It's worrying that I haven't received an answer yet. I mean, I'm sure they're just busy with the whole running space thing. It's not like they have anything to hide, is it?
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:52:00 - [94] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 23/04/2010 06:55:17 I always wonder why the same question gets asked when the answer is publically available. i know these folks can read, since they are posting. well I am making the assumption that their pod interface isn't all coloring book pictures... ******************************** www.eve-chatsubo.com A long term Role-Play, Fiction and EVE storyline community.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.23 07:08:00 - [95] Well to be fair Star Fraction doesn't have a lot of choices. As a free captain I am sure they are tempted to simply fly where they wish and start dropping towers in E-Y, and... well... we know what. Unfortunately they can't threaten sovreignty, which is a little limitting. Does not stop them simply using the space as they will I suppose. Let's be honest here. Star Fraction and Ushra'Khan have at least fought many times in Providence. But who in space is this Daisho anyway. They are arrogant only because they are assured their boundaries by a greater power. My suggestion is to drop sovreignty, Jade, which is a joke anyway, and fly where you wish. And smack anyone who gets in the way.
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.23 14:48:00 - [96] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 23/04/2010 06:55:17 I always wonder why the same question gets asked when the answer is publically available. i know these folks can read, since they are posting. well I am making the assumption that their pod interface isn't all coloring book pictures... This a new answer avoidance strategy, although I see you are still clinging to insulting the questioner too. Clearly the original post only covers the particulars of the peace deal. It does not discuss how it meshes into the wider philosophies of Star Fraction. Again: How did Star Fraction reconcile its principles and the compromises made to secure the peace deal?
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.23 15:26:00 - [97] Read Jade's True Knowladge thread; if you want to have a career as anti-SF talking heads you should spend at least a tiny bit of effort to learn your enemy. though I caution that rout...look what it has done to poor Merdaneth. ******************************** www.eve-chatsubo.com A long term Role-Play, Fiction and EVE storyline community.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.23 15:38:00 - [98] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 23/04/2010 06:55:17 I always wonder why the same question gets asked when the answer is publically available. i know these folks can read, since they are posting. well I am making the assumption that their pod interface isn't all coloring book pictures... This a new answer avoidance strategy, although I see you are still clinging to insulting the questioner too. Clearly the original post only covers the particulars of the peace deal. It does not discuss how it meshes into the wider philosophies of Star Fraction. Again: How did Star Fraction reconcile its principles and the compromises made to secure the peace deal? Stop lying you deceitful little worm. I said we'd made one compromise on this deal. And that choosing (ultimately) not to go to formal warfare in response to agression through the process of mature diplomacy and formal membership vote. In the natural state of diplomacy SF consider aggression from blue to be a significant bar to future relations. Hence the need for a formal vote to put aside our collective vengeance in the interests of ongoing relations and focus on the larger goal of removing CVA and their remaining creatures from Providence. This is the same "compromise" as a warrior makes when accepting terms of truce to discuss matters beyond the exchange of weapon fire. For you to suggest we have compromised ideals of the Fraction is precisely the kind of unsupportable and laughable fiction that we've come to expect from Amarrian loyalists on this summit. The peace settlement confirmed the free captain's full independence from territorial claim and asserted our rights to go where we choose. As a "questioner" you deserve to be insulted because you insult the summit with the low standard of your petty manipulations and dishonest argumentation. True Knowledge
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.23 15:48:00 - [99] Originally by: Jade Constantine And that choosing (ultimately) not to go to formal warfare in response to agression through the process of mature diplomacy and formal membership vote. In the natural state of diplomacy SF consider aggression from blue to be a significant bar to future relations. You do realise you just implied that Star Fraction diplomacy up until this point was not mature? Additionally: this was the only compromise? Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term?
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.23 15:49:00 - [100] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/04/2010 15:50:13 Originally by: Mirxa's Slave You do realise you just implied that Star Fraction diplomacy up until this point was not mature? No because I didn't you deceitful wretch. Quote: Additionally: this was the only compromise? Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term? As tomahawk as advised you. Learn something of the freespace movement and our agendas before making yourself look (more) foolish. True Knowledge
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.23 16:07:00 - [101] Originally by: Jade Constantine No because I didn't you deceitful wretch. Clearly you do as follows: Quote: In the natural state of diplomacy SF consider aggression from blue to be a significant bar to future relations. This states that normally people that are red to you stay red. Quote: choosing (ultimately) not to go to formal warfare in response to agression through the process of mature diplomacy Here you state that it was mature of you, and rightly so I have to say, to use diplomacy to resolve a trivial difference. However, the second quote clearly contradicts the first. The normal process of Star Fraction diplomacy is not mature as it refuses to acknowledge what you yourself describe as mature diplomacy However, this is to distract from the my question. I note again you have chosen not to answer it. Let me repeat: Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term?
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.23 16:22:00 - [102] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Originally by: Jade Constantine No because I didn't you deceitful wretch. Clearly you do as follows: Quote: In the natural state of diplomacy SF consider aggression from blue to be a significant bar to future relations. This states that normally people that are red to you stay red. Quote: choosing (ultimately) not to go to formal warfare in response to agression through the process of mature diplomacy Here you state that it was mature of you, and rightly so I have to say, to use diplomacy to resolve a trivial difference. However, the second quote clearly contradicts the first. The normal process of Star Fraction diplomacy is not mature as it refuses to acknowledge what you yourself describe as mature diplomacy However, this is to distract from the my question. I note again you have chosen not to answer it. Let me repeat: Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term? Have you stopped telling lies yet? True Knowledge
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.23 16:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Jade Constantine Have you stopped telling lies yet? I wasn't aware it was even possible to lie in a question. Again, not answered. Again, let me repeat: Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term?
D melanogaster Minmatar The Fruit Flys	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:54:00 - [104] Originally by: Jade Constantine Have you stopped telling lies yet? When Jade has been caught in her own words she generally regresses to name calling and spitting. This means that you are right and she is wrong, or at least make a mistake with her words (which is easy when you type as many as she does). You will not get an answer to your question but can feel comforted in the fact that you have made a valid point.
Nefher Zhila Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard	Posted - 2010.04.24 03:53:00 - [105] Originally by: Jade Constantine Have you stopped telling lies yet? Have you? Your ramblings all over IGS with all the hypocrisy associated with your sentences have made you into quite the clown, a little amusement to those with the intelligence to see beyond your facade. However I must admit that the ôWheat fractionö makes you due justice. Not one concise answer to any question that you know full well puts forth the many weaknesses and truths for what is, in matter of fact, nothing more than an anarchist organization with a piracy touch here and there and a knack for not building a dammed thing worth remembering. Be sure to ignore me at your will, I will certainly not give you the credit to allow such a persona to blabber some more incoherent communications. Khanid Loyalist,Bahadir of Family Zhila. Former member of the 13th Royal Khanid Regulars, proud member of the khanid provincial Vanguard.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 06:57:00 - [106] Originally by: Nefher Zhila Not one concise answer to any question that you know full well puts forth the many weaknesses and truths for what is, in matter of fact, nothing more than an anarchist organization with a piracy touch here and there and a knack for not building a dammed thing worth remembering. You seem to be stumbling over your words a little and failing to make much sense. None of the anonymous insult proxies and cloaked identities apparent in this thread have demonstrated anything much beyond the desperate straits of the Amarrian Nationalist movement. And to answer your misunderstandings on the issue of what the Star Fraction builds I recommend you follow the link the True Knowledge in my signature. Approach with an open mind and you will find much to surprise you. True Knowledge
Svenjabi Xiang Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 07:04:00 - [107] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave This states that normally people that are red to you stay red. From this point on, you are wrong. Why you are wrong is an internal matter to the Star Fraction, its members and to the parties involved. You are not privy to these discussions. I do not feel any compulsion to describe them to you. They aren't your business. To date, no such discussions have been opened with Fidelas Constans. No such discussions are planned. At the present time, none would be entertained. Clearly, you have some reason to continue being involved in this discussion.
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.24 09:36:00 - [108] Clearly the peace deal between Daisho and Star Fraction is a matter of public discussion - If not then why state the details on this summit? There are a few points that are not clear, however. I am simply asking some questions in the spirit of clarification. So once again, let me repeat: Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term?
Roderz Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.04.24 10:11:00 - [109] I find it funny that everyones overlooked the fact that SF signed an agreement before this incident happened, so much for flying where you want and freespace an all. Hypocrits the lot of them.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.24 11:00:00 - [110] Originally by: D melanogaster Originally by: Jade Constantine Have you stopped telling lies yet? When Jade has been caught in her own words she generally regresses to name calling and spitting. This means that you are right and she is wrong, or at least make a mistake with her words (which is easy when you type as many as she does). You will not get an answer to your question but can feel comforted in the fact that you have made a valid point. I tend to agree with the Minmatar D Melanogaster... you have made your point very well. Jade has used multiple variations of her "inconvenient truth answering system" in an attempt to avoid what is truly a very inconvenient truth exposing the Star Fraction. 1. She has called you names. 2. She has accused you of being someones "slave" and accused you of having no identity yourself. 3. She has accused you of lying while at the same time showing no "evidence" that you are in fact lying. 4. She has ignored the facts she has provided and pretended they don't exist. 5. She has resorted to "see you in space" war baiting comments. In the mind of someone with an ego the caliber of Jade Constantine it's important to realize it's nearly impossible for her to actually admit the truth when it conflicts with her fantasy version of reality. In the history of the Star Fraction we have found them claim to fight for freespace and support the right of free travel everywhere. Yet we've also seen several facts come to light recently which seem to cloud that fantasy reality she's so carefully constructed and have in fact come right out and proven it false. After several years of fighting "for freespace rights" we were just recently told the Star Fraction does not fight for anyone nor have they ever claimed to. Thus it's safe to conclude their "cause" isn't really some "cause" but an excuse. They've already admitted they will do shady deals in smoke filled backrooms with groups that totally oppose every aspect of freespace if it suits them (this recent "peace treaty"). Jade in this thread has admitted "one compromise" was made this time. This leads us to ask how many compromises in the past have they made. The answer is quite obviously many as we've seen them crawl into bed with slavers, embrace as "friends" closed space advocates and ignore pirates who are actually oppressing people while shooting at others who clearly aren't oppressors just loyalists to a government. While I'm sure those pirate allies of theirs are also the result of their now famous "compromises" and "backroom deals" the general public now sees what many of us have known for a long time. I would suggest in the end it isn't so much about "compromise" with the Star Fraction as "business as usual". You see I no longer am under the "spell" of the lofty words of Jade Constantine that there is some kind of "cause" at the root of their actions. As a loyalist Amarrian I have a cause and quite clearly my own desires and wishes matter little in terms of that cause and my duty to God and Empire. The Star Fraction on the other hand have no problem completely ignoring their "cause" when it's inconvenient... hence the INCONVENIENT TRUTH of their actions. How dedicated to a cause is a group that will do a backroom deal with someone who opposes that cause? Obviously not very dedicated. That's my point, this isn't a cause, it's an "excuse" for violence. As we look at the history of the Star Fraction they've made a living basically declaring war on others and destroying things. They've never built anything for the good of anyone in the Eve cluster in their entire existence. They aren't fighting "for" anyone or anything but themseleves. Don't be brainwashed by the lofty rhetoric of their CEO that they have some great cause. It's hypocrisy, dishonesty and rhetoric that when swept away show them for what they are. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 11:38:00 - [111] Some people seem to be incapable of reading a relatively simple agreement, I'll repeat it and, hopefully, bring this thread back to some semblance of topicality: Originally by: "Daisho SyndicateûStar Fraction Treaty" Formal agreement of mutual space usage and transit between The Star Fraction and Daisho Syndicate û the alliances agree that neither party will attempt to restrict the movement rights of the other in any system in Eve space. Star Fraction and Daisho pilots will travel wherever they choose in Providence and the former KBP pocket û including the systems KBP, B-WPLZ, E-YCML, T-UO0T, and Y9-MDG. The B-WPLZ system will be shared and open for resource development with SF and Daisho pilots free to dock, trade, rat, mine, and whatever else they want to do in the system. Anchoring towers is permissable with consultation (basically avoid high value moons for mining purposes). E-Y, T-U, Y-9 systems will be open for transit and navigation but SF pilots are respectfully asked to refrain from bounty-hunting SanshaÆs in the area since these are an important income source for the Daisho Syndicate community and there is after all, plenty of alternative ratting income in B-W, KBP, YWSO etc. Completing Escalations originating elsewhere in space is accepted. ItÆs important to note that Star Fraction pilots do not travel in nullsec freespace to annoy or irritate our neighbours or to share intel on blues or neutrals. We will cooperate in the destruction of reds and are happy to help our friends destroy mutual reds. Neither Daisho Syndicate nor Star Fraction officers or members will attempt to ôorderö or otherwise ôdemandö action from captains of the other organization and will respect free transit rights at all times. Daisho Syndicate will formally apologize for the destruction of ClairXXXÆs Myrmidon class Battlecruiser in B-W system and reimburse the full value of the loss. This agreement represents a binding settlement between Daisho Syndicate and the Star Fraction but will need ratification by a majority vote of the free captains of the Fraction before it can enter formal agreement. Until ratification occurs and is communicated to Daisho Syndicate management it is understood and expected that conflict continues and no additional losses will be addressed in reimbursement or penalty claims hereafter. The treaty deals with everything that was discussed and agreed, and was ratified by both Daisho Syndicate and the freecaptains of the Star Fraction. Reference has been made to a previous agreement. This previous agreement was less formal and in no way placed limits on the transit of Star Fraction pilots, indeed quite to the contrary. Daisho Syndicate, to their credit, recognised that they had breached this agreement and hence entered into peace negotiations that have clarified and made formal the agreement. The main issue of this agreement is the total and unlimited recognition of free transit by Star Fraction pilots through all systems administered by Daisho Syndicate, and indeed the entirety of space in New Eden. That principle has been reaffirmed quite clearly. Reaffirmed because it was never, for a nanosecond, conceded. The details of the agreement then deal with free usage of resources in various systems and our freecaptains voluntarily refraining from utilising resources in other systems. Unlike in the CVA's 'Providence Holder Coalition' none of this was imposed on the freecaptains of the Star Fraction from above. The freecaptains voted on it and voluntarily accepted this. Had they not wished to, the war would have continued. What amazes me is that people can baldly state that they loathe violence and yet shout and scream when someone refrains from using violence to settle a dispute. That seems to resemble hypocrisy to me. The Star Fraction's principles remain intact. We will defend out interests with due means. That includes justified violence and meaningful diplomacy. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Darveses DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 11:39:00 - [112] Originally by: Archbishop I tend to agree with the Minmatar D Melanogaster SURPRIIIIIISE! --- The Providence Gazetteer Star Fraction YouTube Channel
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.24 13:11:00 - [113] Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction's principles remain intact. So now we are being told there was no compromise? Only a few days ago we were told: Originally by: Jade Constantine Its entirely evident that compromises were made with the fact we had a vote on the issue of peace in the first place. I find this contradiction confusing. Furthermore, I still await clarifaction on the extent to which Daisho will will be adopting Freespace
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 13:24:00 - [114] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction's principles remain intact. So now we are being told there was no compromise? Only a few days ago we were told: Originally by: Jade Constantine Its entirely evident that compromises were made with the fact we had a vote on the issue of peace in the first place. I find this contradiction confusing. Furthermore, I still await clarifaction on the extent to which Daisho will will be adopting Freespace You really should have someone take a look at that Intelligence implant you know. There is something seriously wrong with your reasoning and logical abilities.
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.24 13:43:00 - [115] Originally by: ChipMo You really should have someone take a look at that Intelligence implant you know. There is something seriously wrong with your reasoning and logical abilities. Perhaps if you are so confident of your reasoning you could explain the contradiction rather than resort to a personal insult. Perhaps you could even answer the question which you have so adroitly dodged: Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term?
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 14:02:00 - [116] Edited by: ChipMo on 24/04/2010 14:02:29 Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Originally by: ChipMo You really should have someone take a look at that Intelligence implant you know. There is something seriously wrong with your reasoning and logical abilities. Perhaps if you are so confident of your reasoning you could explain the contradiction rather than resort to a personal insult. Perhaps you could even answer the question which you have so adroitly dodged: Can you confirm you persuaded Daisho to adopt Freespace in the long term? Fine, I will indulge your stupidity, this had better put a stop to your incesant whingeing though! To your first point, principles vs concessions. Our principles were met in our terms with Daisho, they accept we are free to travel where we like when we like. The consessions Jade refers to has nothing to do with our principles as the Cosmopolite has already pointed out to you... In answer to your new question: No. Daisho do not believe in the principles of Freespace, the long term is exactly that L O N G T E R M. We will maintain good relations with Daisho and show them the advantages of FreeSpace which we hope they will adopt. They are willing to open their space to those who indulge diplomacy and this is a good step in the direction of Free Space. ChipMo shakes his head & mumbles.. "like being a ***ing primary school teacher, honestly".. walks away in disgust at the thought fellow capsuleers can be so profoundly dense.
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.24 14:18:00 - [117] Originally by: ChipMo In answer to your new question: No. Daisho do not believe in the principles of Freespace, the long term is exactly that L O N G T E R M. We will maintain good relations with Daisho and show them the advantages of FreeSpace which we hope they will adopt. They are willing to open their space to those who indulge diplomacy and this is a good step in the direction of Free Space. So, by your own admission Star Fraction only cares about opening space up for itself. Thank you for making that clear.
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.24 14:23:00 - [118] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave So, by your own admission Star Fraction only cares about opening space up for itself. Thank you for making that clear. No that is not what I said.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Audit Services Inc	Posted - 2010.04.24 14:25:00 - [119] As an Empire dwelling pod pilot with experience albeit limited, in the frontier zones I find the approach that Daisho and The Star Fraction has breached to be truly interesting, and far far more beneficial in many terms for the corporations that venture out there. Firstly I want to see if I can explain the current situation as I see it in the hope that I will be corrected if I'm wrong. - The space of Star Fraction is NRDS, the free captains won't shoot you unless you shot them first. - The space of the Daisho Syndicate is NBSI, so if you don't have diplomatic standings with them they will shoot on sight. -Star Fraction captains have suitable standings to access and dock in most systems of Daisho space. Star Fraction will not police or protect neutrals that come across hostiles in their own space as they feel it's up to individuals to protect themselves. Could you confirm associated fees in the stations that you now control. Good luck in this duel(dual?) venture and I'll try and watch from a safe distance. View The Eve Industrial Organiser Site
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.24 15:46:00 - [120] Originally by: ChipMo No that is not what I said. I'm afraid it is exactly what you said: You acknowledged that no immediate attempt had been made persuade Daisho to change their rules of engagement. Clearly iit follows that the only concession Star Fraction were interested in obtaining from Daisho was the ability for Star Fraction pilots, and Star Fraction pilots only, to move freely through Daisho space. Unless you care to prove me wrong by demonstrating evidence of how you have convinved Daisho to change?

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