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Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:03
Well, look at the current situation.
After the latest changes, missiles are:
-> cheap
You now have an output of 100 missiles per run at the same costs, even for
torpedos.
-> heavy hitting
they do fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target
now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
-> hard to destroy
since defenders are STILL bugged (brake bug) and impractical in use, and
smartbombs need a bit of practise to use (not to mention they take lots and lots
of cap) you donŠt really have a chance to defend yourself against them lets say in
a cruiser.
-> always hitting
since they dont have any tracking issues.
-> for general use
one hits em all, you can fire a cruise on anything and the chance that it will hit
the target is about 80% (there is a chance the missile gets destroyed through sbs,
defenders)
-> easy to train
it takes only a bit more than a week to be able to use cruise missiles
-> failsafe
there are no blind warheads. If the missile reaches you, it detonates. always.
I wish my computer would be that stable.
-> take nearly no cargo space
you can put several hundred torps in a raven.
Edit:
-> self propelled
they need no cap to fire (maybe the launchers should use cap if you reload them?)
-> self targeting if using fofs
well, tats actually not bad, since that way you can defend yourself when someone has
you target jammed.
Edit end-
I sincerly hope its not going to stay that way or everyone will only fly ravens, especially in pvp. And now there is not even the "money barrier" that would keep ppl form using missiles all the time. Another example how ccp reacted to the whinage of the wrong ppl, or maybe all devs are caldari.
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 15:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:03
Well, look at the current situation.
After the latest changes, missiles are:
-> cheap
You now have an output of 100 missiles per run at the same costs, even for
torpedos.
-> heavy hitting
they do fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target
now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
-> hard to destroy
since defenders are STILL bugged (brake bug) and impractical in use, and
smartbombs need a bit of practise to use (not to mention they take lots and lots
of cap) you donŠt really have a chance to defend yourself against them lets say in
a cruiser.
-> always hitting
since they dont have any tracking issues.
-> for general use
one hits em all, you can fire a cruise on anything and the chance that it will hit
the target is about 80% (there is a chance the missile gets destroyed through sbs,
defenders)
-> easy to train
it takes only a bit more than a week to be able to use cruise missiles
-> failsafe
there are no blind warheads. If the missile reaches you, it detonates. always.
I wish my computer would be that stable.
-> take nearly no cargo space
you can put several hundred torps in a raven.
Edit:
-> self propelled
they need no cap to fire (maybe the launchers should use cap if you reload them?)
-> self targeting if using fofs
well, tats actually not bad, since that way you can defend yourself when someone has
you target jammed.
Edit end-
I sincerly hope its not going to stay that way or everyone will only fly ravens, especially in pvp. And now there is not even the "money barrier" that would keep ppl form using missiles all the time. Another example how ccp reacted to the whinage of the wrong ppl, or maybe all devs are caldari.
Patience wins. |
Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:34:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Chade Malloy
-> heavy hitting
they to fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
I hadn't realised this. Way to go. 
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Misomusic! |
Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chade Malloy
-> heavy hitting
they to fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
I hadn't realised this. Way to go.
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:35:00 -
[5]
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:35:00 -
[6]
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
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Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
Well, its one step towards making frigate pilots redundant again.
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Misomusic! |
Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
Well, its one step towards making frigate pilots redundant again.
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:42:00 -
[9]
Speaking as someone selling torpedos, I agree - the cruise should be pretty unmaneuverable - cruisers should be fearing it, frigates not, unless they're daft enough to fly right for them.
Torpedos could be more maneuverable, but being so slow, would hardly ever hit a wise frig pilot... unless they right into them of course.
Lights and Heavies should really be the only ones to hit frigs.
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:42:00 -
[10]
Speaking as someone selling torpedos, I agree - the cruise should be pretty unmaneuverable - cruisers should be fearing it, frigates not, unless they're daft enough to fly right for them.
Torpedos could be more maneuverable, but being so slow, would hardly ever hit a wise frig pilot... unless they right into them of course.
Lights and Heavies should really be the only ones to hit frigs.
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CmdoColin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles.
Err no - lights can now hit them too, as well as heavies since shiva/exodus. I can't comment on rockets as no-one has fired on me with them... yet.
I'm not saying every missile hits me in an my inty, but I'd say 3 or 4 times as many hit me now. Also rather than just the singular hit, I'm being hit by multiples now, where as prior shiva/exodus this wasn't happening. I was occasionally even out-running cruise with this set up.
This is both in PvP and PvE. I'm a dedicated inty pilot with over 7 million skill points. I'm not beatching or whining, but have started to look for alternatives.
This problem is also exasperated by the fact the orbit at function is bugged. Now when what you are orbitting at pops, you stop faster than if you manually stopped your ship.
Audita et altera pars |
CmdoColin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles.
Err no - lights can now hit them too, as well as heavies since shiva/exodus. I can't comment on rockets as no-one has fired on me with them... yet.
I'm not saying every missile hits me in an my inty, but I'd say 3 or 4 times as many hit me now. Also rather than just the singular hit, I'm being hit by multiples now, where as prior shiva/exodus this wasn't happening. I was occasionally even out-running cruise with this set up.
This is both in PvP and PvE. I'm a dedicated inty pilot with over 7 million skill points. I'm not beatching or whining, but have started to look for alternatives.
This problem is also exasperated by the fact the orbit at function is bugged. Now when what you are orbitting at pops, you stop faster than if you manually stopped your ship.
Audita et altera pars |
Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:48:00 -
[13]
lights for interceptors...
What I'm thinking is: Every missiles should require a certain sig radius to lock onto, the smaller the missile the smaller the radius. That way using MWD would not only make bigger guns hit you but also bigger missiles, when you don't use it you'd be pretty safe from giant missiles killing your frigate though.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:48:00 -
[14]
lights for interceptors...
What I'm thinking is: Every missiles should require a certain sig radius to lock onto, the smaller the missile the smaller the radius. That way using MWD would not only make bigger guns hit you but also bigger missiles, when you don't use it you'd be pretty safe from giant missiles killing your frigate though.
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:00:00 -
[15]
you forgot
-> use no cap
-> fof
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:00:00 -
[16]
you forgot
-> use no cap
-> fof
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:08:00 -
[17]
before you start threads, check for other threads first
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
CCP just never tested PvP before thy released exodus
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:08:00 -
[18]
before you start threads, check for other threads first
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
CCP just never tested PvP before thy released exodus
Wanna fly with me?
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Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:23:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:19
Originally by: Nafri
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
Uhm...how is that possible? I mean, they had to add code for it, didnt they? 
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:23:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:19
Originally by: Nafri
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
Uhm...how is that possible? I mean, they had to add code for it, didnt they?
Patience wins. |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:35:00 -
[21]
Uhm, how logical is it that an Inty attacks a BS.
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
If you don't want your Inty to get hit bu cruisemissiles then don't attack a BS.
Missiles are slow and can be outrun still.
Attacking a BS in an Inty is like going whalehunting with a peashooter.
Missiles are fast trained indeed, but then again the missiles are far slower then any turret and don't have as many skills to upgrade them as turrets do.
So please try flying a missileboat first and then find out that missiles have laods of drawbacks against turrets and lasers.
Talking about stuff you hardly use in the game as if it's god's gift to PvP is not a smart way to appraoch things.
If missiles where allthat powerfull you would see lots more Ravens in PvP, But fact is that Armageddons are far better for that.
A MegaT that can get closeby with all blasters rips through many ships. A Raven might be able to fire Torps, but you can have breakfast and walk the dog before you have to turn on the SB to blow them up. And the ROF on Sieglaunchers is terrible so the overall damage is nothing compared to many other BS.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:35:00 -
[22]
Uhm, how logical is it that an Inty attacks a BS.
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
If you don't want your Inty to get hit bu cruisemissiles then don't attack a BS.
Missiles are slow and can be outrun still.
Attacking a BS in an Inty is like going whalehunting with a peashooter.
Missiles are fast trained indeed, but then again the missiles are far slower then any turret and don't have as many skills to upgrade them as turrets do.
So please try flying a missileboat first and then find out that missiles have laods of drawbacks against turrets and lasers.
Talking about stuff you hardly use in the game as if it's god's gift to PvP is not a smart way to appraoch things.
If missiles where allthat powerfull you would see lots more Ravens in PvP, But fact is that Armageddons are far better for that.
A MegaT that can get closeby with all blasters rips through many ships. A Raven might be able to fire Torps, but you can have breakfast and walk the dog before you have to turn on the SB to blow them up. And the ROF on Sieglaunchers is terrible so the overall damage is nothing compared to many other BS.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
cashman
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:39:00 -
[23]
Yes, nerf missiles! Then the only weapontype worth using will be lasers. That will make this game so much better.
Seriously tho, stfu. Missiles nerfs = Ruined PVP
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:39:00 -
[24]
Yes, nerf missiles! Then the only weapontype worth using will be lasers. That will make this game so much better.
Seriously tho, stfu. Missiles nerfs = Ruined PVP
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:41:00 -
[25]
See my replies in related threads about why missles are *not* overpowered. However, the idea of missles taking a certain sig radius to lock on is really a pretty cool idea, provided NPCs got big enough sigs to not totally screw up solo hunters. Tomb said missle agility cant be fixed, but I think they should work on this now as maneuverable CMs seem to be the only justifiable point where missles are overpowered.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:41:00 -
[26]
See my replies in related threads about why missles are *not* overpowered. However, the idea of missles taking a certain sig radius to lock on is really a pretty cool idea, provided NPCs got big enough sigs to not totally screw up solo hunters. Tomb said missle agility cant be fixed, but I think they should work on this now as maneuverable CMs seem to be the only justifiable point where missles are overpowered.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
Missiles do at least the same damage as nearly all turrets. If you compare non-damage mod missiles to damage-mod turrets, yeah, you'll do less damage.
And while 1400s do nice damage, they have an abysmal rate of fire, and those 'nice shots' you speak of are few and far between thanks to their horrid tracking. Cruise have to to at least triple the DoT of 1400s at range.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
Missiles do at least the same damage as nearly all turrets. If you compare non-damage mod missiles to damage-mod turrets, yeah, you'll do less damage.
And while 1400s do nice damage, they have an abysmal rate of fire, and those 'nice shots' you speak of are few and far between thanks to their horrid tracking. Cruise have to to at least triple the DoT of 1400s at range.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
IIIQIII
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:45:00 -
[29]
exactly..
i see some mad gallente... its the first time missiles are cheep... from day 1 we pay freaking 3000 isk / shot not like you pay for hybrids...
and if i`m at 60km... my missiles can do 5000 damage cuz no one will hit actually..
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I... watch over humanity as it's ignorance and stupidity amuse me...
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IIIQIII
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:45:00 -
[30]
exactly..
i see some mad gallente... its the first time missiles are cheep... from day 1 we pay freaking 3000 isk / shot not like you pay for hybrids...
and if i`m at 60km... my missiles can do 5000 damage cuz no one will hit actually..
----------------------------------------------
I... watch over humanity as it's ignorance and stupidity amuse me...
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