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Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:03
Well, look at the current situation.
After the latest changes, missiles are:
-> cheap
You now have an output of 100 missiles per run at the same costs, even for
torpedos.
-> heavy hitting
they do fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target
now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
-> hard to destroy
since defenders are STILL bugged (brake bug) and impractical in use, and
smartbombs need a bit of practise to use (not to mention they take lots and lots
of cap) you donŠt really have a chance to defend yourself against them lets say in
a cruiser.
-> always hitting
since they dont have any tracking issues.
-> for general use
one hits em all, you can fire a cruise on anything and the chance that it will hit
the target is about 80% (there is a chance the missile gets destroyed through sbs,
defenders)
-> easy to train
it takes only a bit more than a week to be able to use cruise missiles
-> failsafe
there are no blind warheads. If the missile reaches you, it detonates. always.
I wish my computer would be that stable.
-> take nearly no cargo space
you can put several hundred torps in a raven.
Edit:
-> self propelled
they need no cap to fire (maybe the launchers should use cap if you reload them?)
-> self targeting if using fofs
well, tats actually not bad, since that way you can defend yourself when someone has
you target jammed.
Edit end-
I sincerly hope its not going to stay that way or everyone will only fly ravens, especially in pvp. And now there is not even the "money barrier" that would keep ppl form using missiles all the time. Another example how ccp reacted to the whinage of the wrong ppl, or maybe all devs are caldari.
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:03
Well, look at the current situation.
After the latest changes, missiles are:
-> cheap
You now have an output of 100 missiles per run at the same costs, even for
torpedos.
-> heavy hitting
they do fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target
now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
-> hard to destroy
since defenders are STILL bugged (brake bug) and impractical in use, and
smartbombs need a bit of practise to use (not to mention they take lots and lots
of cap) you donŠt really have a chance to defend yourself against them lets say in
a cruiser.
-> always hitting
since they dont have any tracking issues.
-> for general use
one hits em all, you can fire a cruise on anything and the chance that it will hit
the target is about 80% (there is a chance the missile gets destroyed through sbs,
defenders)
-> easy to train
it takes only a bit more than a week to be able to use cruise missiles
-> failsafe
there are no blind warheads. If the missile reaches you, it detonates. always.
I wish my computer would be that stable.
-> take nearly no cargo space
you can put several hundred torps in a raven.
Edit:
-> self propelled
they need no cap to fire (maybe the launchers should use cap if you reload them?)
-> self targeting if using fofs
well, tats actually not bad, since that way you can defend yourself when someone has
you target jammed.
Edit end-
I sincerly hope its not going to stay that way or everyone will only fly ravens, especially in pvp. And now there is not even the "money barrier" that would keep ppl form using missiles all the time. Another example how ccp reacted to the whinage of the wrong ppl, or maybe all devs are caldari.
Patience wins. |
Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:34:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Chade Malloy
-> heavy hitting
they to fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
I hadn't realised this. Way to go. 
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chade Malloy
-> heavy hitting
they to fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
I hadn't realised this. Way to go.
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:35:00 -
[5]
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:35:00 -
[6]
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
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Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
Well, its one step towards making frigate pilots redundant again.
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Ghost Red
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles. That's just stuipid, because it makes missiles too convenient of an alround weapon. If you want to hit interceptors you should have to fire light missiles, not cruise.
Well, its one step towards making frigate pilots redundant again.
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:42:00 -
[9]
Speaking as someone selling torpedos, I agree - the cruise should be pretty unmaneuverable - cruisers should be fearing it, frigates not, unless they're daft enough to fly right for them.
Torpedos could be more maneuverable, but being so slow, would hardly ever hit a wise frig pilot... unless they right into them of course.
Lights and Heavies should really be the only ones to hit frigs.
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:42:00 -
[10]
Speaking as someone selling torpedos, I agree - the cruise should be pretty unmaneuverable - cruisers should be fearing it, frigates not, unless they're daft enough to fly right for them.
Torpedos could be more maneuverable, but being so slow, would hardly ever hit a wise frig pilot... unless they right into them of course.
Lights and Heavies should really be the only ones to hit frigs.
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CmdoColin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles.
Err no - lights can now hit them too, as well as heavies since shiva/exodus. I can't comment on rockets as no-one has fired on me with them... yet.
I'm not saying every missile hits me in an my inty, but I'd say 3 or 4 times as many hit me now. Also rather than just the singular hit, I'm being hit by multiples now, where as prior shiva/exodus this wasn't happening. I was occasionally even out-running cruise with this set up.
This is both in PvP and PvE. I'm a dedicated inty pilot with over 7 million skill points. I'm not beatching or whining, but have started to look for alternatives.
This problem is also exasperated by the fact the orbit at function is bugged. Now when what you are orbitting at pops, you stop faster than if you manually stopped your ship.
Audita et altera pars |
CmdoColin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Noriath
The only acctual problem with missiles is the fact that you can hit frigates and even interceptors with cruise missiles.
Err no - lights can now hit them too, as well as heavies since shiva/exodus. I can't comment on rockets as no-one has fired on me with them... yet.
I'm not saying every missile hits me in an my inty, but I'd say 3 or 4 times as many hit me now. Also rather than just the singular hit, I'm being hit by multiples now, where as prior shiva/exodus this wasn't happening. I was occasionally even out-running cruise with this set up.
This is both in PvP and PvE. I'm a dedicated inty pilot with over 7 million skill points. I'm not beatching or whining, but have started to look for alternatives.
This problem is also exasperated by the fact the orbit at function is bugged. Now when what you are orbitting at pops, you stop faster than if you manually stopped your ship.
Audita et altera pars |
Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:48:00 -
[13]
lights for interceptors...
What I'm thinking is: Every missiles should require a certain sig radius to lock onto, the smaller the missile the smaller the radius. That way using MWD would not only make bigger guns hit you but also bigger missiles, when you don't use it you'd be pretty safe from giant missiles killing your frigate though.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:48:00 -
[14]
lights for interceptors...
What I'm thinking is: Every missiles should require a certain sig radius to lock onto, the smaller the missile the smaller the radius. That way using MWD would not only make bigger guns hit you but also bigger missiles, when you don't use it you'd be pretty safe from giant missiles killing your frigate though.
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:00:00 -
[15]
you forgot
-> use no cap
-> fof
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:00:00 -
[16]
you forgot
-> use no cap
-> fof
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:08:00 -
[17]
before you start threads, check for other threads first
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
CCP just never tested PvP before thy released exodus
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:08:00 -
[18]
before you start threads, check for other threads first
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
CCP just never tested PvP before thy released exodus
Wanna fly with me?
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Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:23:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:19
Originally by: Nafri
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
Uhm...how is that possible? I mean, they had to add code for it, didnt they? 
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:23:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:19
Originally by: Nafri
the new advance tracking wasnt intended
Uhm...how is that possible? I mean, they had to add code for it, didnt they?
Patience wins. |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:35:00 -
[21]
Uhm, how logical is it that an Inty attacks a BS.
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
If you don't want your Inty to get hit bu cruisemissiles then don't attack a BS.
Missiles are slow and can be outrun still.
Attacking a BS in an Inty is like going whalehunting with a peashooter.
Missiles are fast trained indeed, but then again the missiles are far slower then any turret and don't have as many skills to upgrade them as turrets do.
So please try flying a missileboat first and then find out that missiles have laods of drawbacks against turrets and lasers.
Talking about stuff you hardly use in the game as if it's god's gift to PvP is not a smart way to appraoch things.
If missiles where allthat powerfull you would see lots more Ravens in PvP, But fact is that Armageddons are far better for that.
A MegaT that can get closeby with all blasters rips through many ships. A Raven might be able to fire Torps, but you can have breakfast and walk the dog before you have to turn on the SB to blow them up. And the ROF on Sieglaunchers is terrible so the overall damage is nothing compared to many other BS.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:35:00 -
[22]
Uhm, how logical is it that an Inty attacks a BS.
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
If you don't want your Inty to get hit bu cruisemissiles then don't attack a BS.
Missiles are slow and can be outrun still.
Attacking a BS in an Inty is like going whalehunting with a peashooter.
Missiles are fast trained indeed, but then again the missiles are far slower then any turret and don't have as many skills to upgrade them as turrets do.
So please try flying a missileboat first and then find out that missiles have laods of drawbacks against turrets and lasers.
Talking about stuff you hardly use in the game as if it's god's gift to PvP is not a smart way to appraoch things.
If missiles where allthat powerfull you would see lots more Ravens in PvP, But fact is that Armageddons are far better for that.
A MegaT that can get closeby with all blasters rips through many ships. A Raven might be able to fire Torps, but you can have breakfast and walk the dog before you have to turn on the SB to blow them up. And the ROF on Sieglaunchers is terrible so the overall damage is nothing compared to many other BS.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
cashman
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:39:00 -
[23]
Yes, nerf missiles! Then the only weapontype worth using will be lasers. That will make this game so much better.
Seriously tho, stfu. Missiles nerfs = Ruined PVP
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:39:00 -
[24]
Yes, nerf missiles! Then the only weapontype worth using will be lasers. That will make this game so much better.
Seriously tho, stfu. Missiles nerfs = Ruined PVP
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:41:00 -
[25]
See my replies in related threads about why missles are *not* overpowered. However, the idea of missles taking a certain sig radius to lock on is really a pretty cool idea, provided NPCs got big enough sigs to not totally screw up solo hunters. Tomb said missle agility cant be fixed, but I think they should work on this now as maneuverable CMs seem to be the only justifiable point where missles are overpowered.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:41:00 -
[26]
See my replies in related threads about why missles are *not* overpowered. However, the idea of missles taking a certain sig radius to lock on is really a pretty cool idea, provided NPCs got big enough sigs to not totally screw up solo hunters. Tomb said missle agility cant be fixed, but I think they should work on this now as maneuverable CMs seem to be the only justifiable point where missles are overpowered.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
Missiles do at least the same damage as nearly all turrets. If you compare non-damage mod missiles to damage-mod turrets, yeah, you'll do less damage.
And while 1400s do nice damage, they have an abysmal rate of fire, and those 'nice shots' you speak of are few and far between thanks to their horrid tracking. Cruise have to to at least triple the DoT of 1400s at range.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Fact is that missiles are NOT overpowered. If you train some gunneryskills you can easily double the damage of a missile even a Torp doesn't hit as hard as a good shot from a 1400mm.
Missiles do at least the same damage as nearly all turrets. If you compare non-damage mod missiles to damage-mod turrets, yeah, you'll do less damage.
And while 1400s do nice damage, they have an abysmal rate of fire, and those 'nice shots' you speak of are few and far between thanks to their horrid tracking. Cruise have to to at least triple the DoT of 1400s at range.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
IIIQIII
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:45:00 -
[29]
exactly..
i see some mad gallente... its the first time missiles are cheep... from day 1 we pay freaking 3000 isk / shot not like you pay for hybrids...
and if i`m at 60km... my missiles can do 5000 damage cuz no one will hit actually..
----------------------------------------------
I... watch over humanity as it's ignorance and stupidity amuse me...
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IIIQIII
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:45:00 -
[30]
exactly..
i see some mad gallente... its the first time missiles are cheep... from day 1 we pay freaking 3000 isk / shot not like you pay for hybrids...
and if i`m at 60km... my missiles can do 5000 damage cuz no one will hit actually..
----------------------------------------------
I... watch over humanity as it's ignorance and stupidity amuse me...
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:50:00 -
[31]
I would wager that if you outfitted a ship with missiles only I would be able to take it down with a frigg.
All I would have to do is make sure my frigg was faster than your cruise missiles while orbeting at a suitable range.
At the moment Im killing NPC cruisers and BS's with a frigg fitted like this, sure often enough I have a tail of 10-20 missiles trying to catch upp to me but as Im faster than them they eventially run out of fuel and fail to hit me.
Lastly I tried taking on 5 elite MOA's and 5 kestrel's , the kestrels died fast, only reason I switched ships was that my guns took forever to kill the damn MOA's... to tell the truth I was running out of ammo :)
I doubt they were fiering cruise missiles but I have been outrunning cruise missiles earlier...
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:50:00 -
[32]
I would wager that if you outfitted a ship with missiles only I would be able to take it down with a frigg.
All I would have to do is make sure my frigg was faster than your cruise missiles while orbeting at a suitable range.
At the moment Im killing NPC cruisers and BS's with a frigg fitted like this, sure often enough I have a tail of 10-20 missiles trying to catch upp to me but as Im faster than them they eventially run out of fuel and fail to hit me.
Lastly I tried taking on 5 elite MOA's and 5 kestrel's , the kestrels died fast, only reason I switched ships was that my guns took forever to kill the damn MOA's... to tell the truth I was running out of ammo :)
I doubt they were fiering cruise missiles but I have been outrunning cruise missiles earlier...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:50:00 -
[33]
One day there will be one "balance ffs!" thread too many, and TomB snaps and chains everyone to Ibis with one civilian rail for a week.
Then everyone will be perfectly balanced against everyone else...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:50:00 -
[34]
One day there will be one "balance ffs!" thread too many, and TomB snaps and chains everyone to Ibis with one civilian rail for a week.
Then everyone will be perfectly balanced against everyone else...
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:01:00 -
[35]
...its getting pretty damn tiring hearing all the WHINING about missles!
...pretty damn tiring....
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Deadzone
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:01:00 -
[36]
...its getting pretty damn tiring hearing all the WHINING about missles!
...pretty damn tiring....
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 19:18:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Uhm, how logical is it that an Inty attacks a BS.
If you don't want your Inty to get hit bu cruisemissiles then don't attack a BS.
Yeah and my Large rail guns should be able to hit orbiting Intys. BSs should make us invinvible to anything but another BS
Intys cant seriously hurt a BS unless the BS pilot is doing something very wrong. But they can webb and scramble the BS, or do you want to never be able to catch someone in PvP? Weapons meant for fighting other BSs should be of limited use for killing frigates and especially *Interceptors* (their name implies their function).
--------------------------------------------------
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Uhm, how logical is it that an Inty attacks a BS.
If you don't want your Inty to get hit bu cruisemissiles then don't attack a BS.
Yeah and my Large rail guns should be able to hit orbiting Intys. BSs should make us invinvible to anything but another BS
Intys cant seriously hurt a BS unless the BS pilot is doing something very wrong. But they can webb and scramble the BS, or do you want to never be able to catch someone in PvP? Weapons meant for fighting other BSs should be of limited use for killing frigates and especially *Interceptors* (their name implies their function).
--------------------------------------------------
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:21:00 -
[39]
I know Oveur is just itching to join the thread with
Word.
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:21:00 -
[40]
I know Oveur is just itching to join the thread with
Word.
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:44:00 -
[41]
Devs have never replied to these missile threads, heed that and stop posting this crap about them.
Missiles are fine mmmk?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
MysticNZ
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:44:00 -
[42]
Devs have never replied to these missile threads, heed that and stop posting this crap about them.
Missiles are fine mmmk?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Steeldrake
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:56:00 -
[43]
I've just bought a Raven after weeks of hell using Tempest (finally blown up during a level 4 mission)... if you start to nerf missiles NOW I will kill you!!!! 
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Steeldrake
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:56:00 -
[44]
I've just bought a Raven after weeks of hell using Tempest (finally blown up during a level 4 mission)... if you start to nerf missiles NOW I will kill you!!!!
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:18:00 -
[45]
The fact that, missiles take forever to hit their target isn't justification for them being uber otherwise.
that's like saying "I'm ugly so I'm free to kill anyone I want"
Fix the stupid speed issue, and make them balanced.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:18:00 -
[46]
The fact that, missiles take forever to hit their target isn't justification for them being uber otherwise.
that's like saying "I'm ugly so I'm free to kill anyone I want"
Fix the stupid speed issue, and make them balanced.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:24:00 -
[47]
Well let me put this plainly, I AGREE WITH you about the missles, but I do not want them to be changed so that they miss there targets.
I would like to see just the opsite the turrts changed so that they can hit targets, hit targets slightly better with mod's...
I absulty don't think you should have to put several mid and low tracking mods just to have a chance to hit with turrts.
Even with my scorp i use 4 missle, and 2 turrts and since I don't want to put any trackign mods on my ship i hit maybe 1 out of 10 shots with them. So I can see why people that use turrts are frustrated, and rightly so.
Regards,
John Blackthorn
Foundaiton, Director
Member Xetic
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John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:24:00 -
[48]
Well let me put this plainly, I AGREE WITH you about the missles, but I do not want them to be changed so that they miss there targets.
I would like to see just the opsite the turrts changed so that they can hit targets, hit targets slightly better with mod's...
I absulty don't think you should have to put several mid and low tracking mods just to have a chance to hit with turrts.
Even with my scorp i use 4 missle, and 2 turrts and since I don't want to put any trackign mods on my ship i hit maybe 1 out of 10 shots with them. So I can see why people that use turrts are frustrated, and rightly so.
Regards,
John Blackthorn
Foundaiton, Director
Member Xetic
|
Xilimyth
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:00:00 -
[49]
Down with any nerfs. Best way to fix things is buff the competitors. Give turrets some high speed ammo :)
(Hopefully the same effect will go through with the afterburners. *prays*)
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Xilimyth
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:00:00 -
[50]
Down with any nerfs. Best way to fix things is buff the competitors. Give turrets some high speed ammo :)
(Hopefully the same effect will go through with the afterburners. *prays*)
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:06:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:20:14
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:06:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:20:14
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:11:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:19:58
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:11:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:19:58
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:12:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:19:41
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:12:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:19:41
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:13:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:20:32
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:13:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:20:32
repost
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Chade Malloy
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:03
Well, look at the current situation.
After the latest changes, missiles are:
-> cheap
You now have an output of 100 missiles per run at the same costs, even for
torpedos.
-> heavy hitting
they do fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target
now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
-> hard to destroy
since defenders are STILL bugged (brake bug) and impractical in use, and
smartbombs need a bit of practise to use (not to mention they take lots and lots
of cap) you donŠt really have a chance to defend yourself against them lets say in
a cruiser.
-> always hitting
since they dont have any tracking issues.
-> for general use
one hits em all, you can fire a cruise on anything and the chance that it will hit
the target is about 80% (there is a chance the missile gets destroyed through sbs,
defenders)
-> easy to train
it takes only a bit more than a week to be able to use cruise missiles
-> failsafe
there are no blind warheads. If the missile reaches you, it detonates. always.
I wish my computer would be that stable.
-> take nearly no cargo space
you can put several hundred torps in a raven.
Edit:
-> self propelled
they need no cap to fire (maybe the launchers should use cap if you reload them?)
-> self targeting if using fofs
well, tats actually not bad, since that way you can defend yourself when someone has
you target jammed.
Edit end-
I sincerly hope its not going to stay that way or everyone will only fly ravens, especially in pvp. And now there is not even the "money barrier" that would keep ppl form using missiles all the time. Another example how ccp reacted to the whinage of the wrong ppl, or maybe all devs are caldari.
ur completely wrong with cruise missles.
-it takes at least 1 month to train cruise missles.
you have to have missle operation lvl 5 to train the cruise missle skill.
also need standard missles lvl 3 and heavy missles 3
-cruise missles are not cheap....2480/uniot is not cheap.
-they do a fixed default damage which can be increased with skill lvl increases, same as proj ammo
-missles have a longer range than proj, u should read up on the accuracy fallout rates
-and its called dont fight in a battle with some that has a BS, since a BS is one of the few that have enough power for cruise missles. also at default cruise missles goe 2000m/s which increases with skills. thats why they are failsafe.
u should know what ur talking about b4 u post something on these forums
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:17:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Chade Malloy
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 02/12/2004 18:30:03
Well, look at the current situation.
After the latest changes, missiles are:
-> cheap
You now have an output of 100 missiles per run at the same costs, even for
torpedos.
-> heavy hitting
they do fixed damage and can not be outmanevered since they track the target
now in advance, so a raven can own an interceptor/frigate with cruise missiles.
-> hard to destroy
since defenders are STILL bugged (brake bug) and impractical in use, and
smartbombs need a bit of practise to use (not to mention they take lots and lots
of cap) you donŠt really have a chance to defend yourself against them lets say in
a cruiser.
-> always hitting
since they dont have any tracking issues.
-> for general use
one hits em all, you can fire a cruise on anything and the chance that it will hit
the target is about 80% (there is a chance the missile gets destroyed through sbs,
defenders)
-> easy to train
it takes only a bit more than a week to be able to use cruise missiles
-> failsafe
there are no blind warheads. If the missile reaches you, it detonates. always.
I wish my computer would be that stable.
-> take nearly no cargo space
you can put several hundred torps in a raven.
Edit:
-> self propelled
they need no cap to fire (maybe the launchers should use cap if you reload them?)
-> self targeting if using fofs
well, tats actually not bad, since that way you can defend yourself when someone has
you target jammed.
Edit end-
I sincerly hope its not going to stay that way or everyone will only fly ravens, especially in pvp. And now there is not even the "money barrier" that would keep ppl form using missiles all the time. Another example how ccp reacted to the whinage of the wrong ppl, or maybe all devs are caldari.
ur completely wrong with cruise missles.
-it takes at least 1 month to train cruise missles.
you have to have missle operation lvl 5 to train the cruise missle skill.
also need standard missles lvl 3 and heavy missles 3
-cruise missles are not cheap....2480/uniot is not cheap.
-they do a fixed default damage which can be increased with skill lvl increases, same as proj ammo
-missles have a longer range than proj, u should read up on the accuracy fallout rates
-and its called dont fight in a battle with some that has a BS, since a BS is one of the few that have enough power for cruise missles. also at default cruise missles goe 2000m/s which increases with skills. thats why they are failsafe.
u should know what ur talking about b4 u post something on these forums
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USA4
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:27:00 -
[61]
I just want to serve all you missle complainers a **** warm cup of stfu about my missles. Fof missles do crap for damage, even at lvl 5, and you have no control whatsoever over which target they decide to fire at. Cant kill nothing that is not held down at long range unless there stupid enough to stick around while my slow missles ease there way to them. What needs to be done, is there needs to be high slot fitting modules to jam gun boats. Curently you have the option of using defenders and smartbombs to defend against missles. There are no high slot modules to defend against gun boats.
What you whining ac e mofos need to do is get off ya mothers milk, and learn how to fit a ship out.
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USA4
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:27:00 -
[62]
I just want to serve all you missle complainers a **** warm cup of stfu about my missles. Fof missles do crap for damage, even at lvl 5, and you have no control whatsoever over which target they decide to fire at. Cant kill nothing that is not held down at long range unless there stupid enough to stick around while my slow missles ease there way to them. What needs to be done, is there needs to be high slot fitting modules to jam gun boats. Curently you have the option of using defenders and smartbombs to defend against missles. There are no high slot modules to defend against gun boats.
What you whining ac e mofos need to do is get off ya mothers milk, and learn how to fit a ship out.
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:29:00 -
[63]
Originally by: USA4
I just want to serve all you missle complainers a **** warm cup of stfu about my missles. Fof missles do crap for damage, even at lvl 5, and you have no control whatsoever over which target they decide to fire at. Cant kill nothing that is not held down at long range unless there stupid enough to stick around while my slow missles ease there way to them. What needs to be done, is there needs to be high slot fitting modules to jam gun boats. Curently you have the option of using defenders and smartbombs to defend against missles. There are no high slot modules to defend against gun boats.
What you whining ac e mofos need to do is get off ya mothers milk, and learn how to fit a ship out.
im not whining, im a missle man, but i go for fact not fiction and what i always write is fact.
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:29:00 -
[64]
Originally by: USA4
I just want to serve all you missle complainers a **** warm cup of stfu about my missles. Fof missles do crap for damage, even at lvl 5, and you have no control whatsoever over which target they decide to fire at. Cant kill nothing that is not held down at long range unless there stupid enough to stick around while my slow missles ease there way to them. What needs to be done, is there needs to be high slot fitting modules to jam gun boats. Curently you have the option of using defenders and smartbombs to defend against missles. There are no high slot modules to defend against gun boats.
What you whining ac e mofos need to do is get off ya mothers milk, and learn how to fit a ship out.
im not whining, im a missle man, but i go for fact not fiction and what i always write is fact.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:36:00 -
[65]
Missiles are overpowered, for the following reason:
They are the only current weapon which does NOT take into account the signature radius of the target and that of the firing ship.
Other weapons' chance to hit is altered by the ratio of the target's signature radius and the firing ships signature radius, as well as the weapon's sig radius.
Not so for missiles.
Anybody that says missiles are fine as they are is a hypocritical Caldari corporate goon.
For the record: I fly both Minmatar and Caldari battleships.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:36:00 -
[66]
Missiles are overpowered, for the following reason:
They are the only current weapon which does NOT take into account the signature radius of the target and that of the firing ship.
Other weapons' chance to hit is altered by the ratio of the target's signature radius and the firing ships signature radius, as well as the weapon's sig radius.
Not so for missiles.
Anybody that says missiles are fine as they are is a hypocritical Caldari corporate goon.
For the record: I fly both Minmatar and Caldari battleships.
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:40:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Mikelangelo
Missiles are overpowered, for the following reason:
They are the only current weapon which does NOT take into account the signature radius of the target and that of the firing ship.
Other weapons' chance to hit is altered by the ratio of the target's signature radius and the firing ships signature radius, as well as the weapon's sig radius.
Not so for missiles.
Anybody that says missiles are fine as they are is a hypocritical Caldari corporate goon.
For the record: I fly both Minmatar and Caldari battleships.
finally someone with facts.
i agree with you there that needs to be fixed.
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Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mikelangelo
Missiles are overpowered, for the following reason:
They are the only current weapon which does NOT take into account the signature radius of the target and that of the firing ship.
Other weapons' chance to hit is altered by the ratio of the target's signature radius and the firing ships signature radius, as well as the weapon's sig radius.
Not so for missiles.
Anybody that says missiles are fine as they are is a hypocritical Caldari corporate goon.
For the record: I fly both Minmatar and Caldari battleships.
finally someone with facts.
i agree with you there that needs to be fixed.
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:40:00 -
[69]
Originally by: John Blackthorn
Well let me put this plainly, I AGREE WITH you about the missles, but I do not want them to be changed so that they miss there targets.
I would like to see just the opsite the turrts changed so that they can hit targets, hit targets slightly better with mod's...
Seconded.
Remove tracking speed, come up with some other StarTrek reason why bigger damage items do less damage to smaller targets, and make 'em consistent across the board, irrelivent of targets orbit range.
Oh, and speed up missiles so they don't suck in fleet engagements.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Wraeththu
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 21:40:00 -
[70]
Originally by: John Blackthorn
Well let me put this plainly, I AGREE WITH you about the missles, but I do not want them to be changed so that they miss there targets.
I would like to see just the opsite the turrts changed so that they can hit targets, hit targets slightly better with mod's...
Seconded.
Remove tracking speed, come up with some other StarTrek reason why bigger damage items do less damage to smaller targets, and make 'em consistent across the board, irrelivent of targets orbit range.
Oh, and speed up missiles so they don't suck in fleet engagements.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:50:00 -
[71]
Ok, if your inty is getting hit by missles, you don't have enough skills to be flying an interceptor. With one mwd and combat setup inty I fly round 3450m/s. There is NO missle in the game that can match that atm.
I attack BS in my inty all the time, and have solo killed a megathron with it. He was poorly setup and no drones to my luck but dude, frigates are almost a must fighting anything.
I don"t see anyone here *****ing about Gankageddons? Hmm Hmm!!!! Only lvl1 BS I know that can just obliterate with insane damage.
Missle being put in packs of 100 is the best thing they have done, Yay they are finally affordable to use dammit. They are still more expensive than any other ammo in the game so STFU bout it.
There are tons of different ways to counter missles. Figure em out, they aren't really that uber. Oh and ya so what if I can fit 600 torps or so in my hull. Every other BS can fit a crapload of their ammo in the hull, you know in the thousands. That is balanced allready.
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:50:00 -
[72]
Ok, if your inty is getting hit by missles, you don't have enough skills to be flying an interceptor. With one mwd and combat setup inty I fly round 3450m/s. There is NO missle in the game that can match that atm.
I attack BS in my inty all the time, and have solo killed a megathron with it. He was poorly setup and no drones to my luck but dude, frigates are almost a must fighting anything.
I don"t see anyone here *****ing about Gankageddons? Hmm Hmm!!!! Only lvl1 BS I know that can just obliterate with insane damage.
Missle being put in packs of 100 is the best thing they have done, Yay they are finally affordable to use dammit. They are still more expensive than any other ammo in the game so STFU bout it.
There are tons of different ways to counter missles. Figure em out, they aren't really that uber. Oh and ya so what if I can fit 600 torps or so in my hull. Every other BS can fit a crapload of their ammo in the hull, you know in the thousands. That is balanced allready.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:56:00 -
[73]
Missiles have too many disadvantages to be overpowered, they don't hit good frigate pilots at all.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:56:00 -
[74]
Missiles have too many disadvantages to be overpowered, they don't hit good frigate pilots at all.
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Ilior
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:08:00 -
[75]
To original post: I totaly agree.
I dont care so much about BS against frig I care about BS vs BS.
All you 'stfu' missile users cant deny that the average well set up missile boat beats the average well set up gunner almost every time.
Missile boats can put a string of missiles in the air in a couple of seconds and can then deal insane amounts of continuous damage constantly without worrying about anything like how fast either target is going or tranverse speeds or optimal ranges.
The fact is that gunner battleships arnt manuverable enough to even get into an orientation to out run missiles before they start getting hit. And as soon as they switch an MWD on they can say goodbye to the ability to hit anything.
I dont think any PC should be able to kill a good bs in about 10 seconds which is what I can do in a raven.
_______________________________________________
The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :) |
Ilior
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:08:00 -
[76]
To original post: I totaly agree.
I dont care so much about BS against frig I care about BS vs BS.
All you 'stfu' missile users cant deny that the average well set up missile boat beats the average well set up gunner almost every time.
Missile boats can put a string of missiles in the air in a couple of seconds and can then deal insane amounts of continuous damage constantly without worrying about anything like how fast either target is going or tranverse speeds or optimal ranges.
The fact is that gunner battleships arnt manuverable enough to even get into an orientation to out run missiles before they start getting hit. And as soon as they switch an MWD on they can say goodbye to the ability to hit anything.
I dont think any PC should be able to kill a good bs in about 10 seconds which is what I can do in a raven.
_______________________________________________
The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :) |
Drunvalo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:18:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dsanta
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:20:32
repost
wow, for someone who's so totally uber that they're windows certified, a network admin, and a web admin, you really are an idiot.
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Drunvalo
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:18:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Dsanta
Edited by: Dsanta on 02/12/2004 21:20:32
repost
wow, for someone who's so totally uber that they're windows certified, a network admin, and a web admin, you really are an idiot.
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Rephern Muare
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:27:00 -
[79]
I like my caldari ships  But yes they still need to be balanced but I think they are putting in a balance to all ships next year
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Rephern Muare
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:27:00 -
[80]
I like my caldari ships But yes they still need to be balanced but I think they are putting in a balance to all ships next year
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:42:00 -
[81]
Quote:
ur completely wrong with cruise missles.
No he isn't.
Quote:
-it takes at least 1 month to train cruise missles.
you have to have missle operation lvl 5 to train the cruise missle skill.
also need standard missles lvl 3 and heavy missles 3
Let me see.. with my *crappy* perception and willpower (19 and 20 with implants and the advanced skills to 3) it takes a whopping 5 days and 9 hours to train missiles to 5. I think it took me one day to train that skill to 4, so let's see:
Missile Launcher Ops 5: 6 days
Standard Missiles 3: 10 hours
Heavy Missiles 3: 10 hours
Cruise Missiles 1: ? 30 minutes?
A month... gimme a break.
Quote:
-cruise missles are not cheap....2480/uniot is not cheap.
2480? What game are you playing? Exodus made missiles cost around 200 per shot. That's cheaper than projectile ammo.
Quote:
-they do a fixed default damage which can be increased with skill lvl increases, same as proj ammo
Except that turret ammo DOES NOT have fixed default damage. Well, it probably has, but it's heavily modified by a gazillion stats that you have no control of.
Quote:
-missles have a longer range than proj, u should read up on the accuracy fallout rates
You can shoot 200km with your missiles you say?
Quote:
-and its called dont fight in a battle with some that has a BS, since a BS is one of the few that have enough power for cruise missles. also at default cruise missles goe 2000m/s which increases with skills. thats why they are failsafe.
And also why they are too good.
Quote:
u should know what ur talking about b4 u post something on these forums
Pot and kettle....
-------------------------------------------------------
"Do you really think that's air you're breathing?" |
Shayla Sh'inlux
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 23:42:00 -
[82]
Quote:
ur completely wrong with cruise missles.
No he isn't.
Quote:
-it takes at least 1 month to train cruise missles.
you have to have missle operation lvl 5 to train the cruise missle skill.
also need standard missles lvl 3 and heavy missles 3
Let me see.. with my *crappy* perception and willpower (19 and 20 with implants and the advanced skills to 3) it takes a whopping 5 days and 9 hours to train missiles to 5. I think it took me one day to train that skill to 4, so let's see:
Missile Launcher Ops 5: 6 days
Standard Missiles 3: 10 hours
Heavy Missiles 3: 10 hours
Cruise Missiles 1: ? 30 minutes?
A month... gimme a break.
Quote:
-cruise missles are not cheap....2480/uniot is not cheap.
2480? What game are you playing? Exodus made missiles cost around 200 per shot. That's cheaper than projectile ammo.
Quote:
-they do a fixed default damage which can be increased with skill lvl increases, same as proj ammo
Except that turret ammo DOES NOT have fixed default damage. Well, it probably has, but it's heavily modified by a gazillion stats that you have no control of.
Quote:
-missles have a longer range than proj, u should read up on the accuracy fallout rates
You can shoot 200km with your missiles you say?
Quote:
-and its called dont fight in a battle with some that has a BS, since a BS is one of the few that have enough power for cruise missles. also at default cruise missles goe 2000m/s which increases with skills. thats why they are failsafe.
And also why they are too good.
Quote:
u should know what ur talking about b4 u post something on these forums
Pot and kettle....
-------------------------------------------------------
"Do you really think that's air you're breathing?" |
Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:51:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Dsanta
-it takes at least 1 month to train cruise missles.
you have to have missle operation lvl 5 to train the cruise missle skill.
also need standard missles lvl 3 and heavy missles 3
wrong, it takes at max two weeks if you have reasonable high perception and willpower, missile launcher op is a rank one skill
Originally by: Dsanta
-cruise missles are not cheap....2480/uniot is not cheap.
i would change my seller, at the current yield of 100 units per prod run a devastator cruise missile doesnt cost more than 100 isk.
Originally by: Dsanta
-they do a fixed default damage which can be increased with skill lvl increases, same as proj ammo
-missles have a longer range than proj, u should read up on the accuracy fallout rates
-and its called dont fight in a battle with some that has a BS, since a BS is one of the few that have enough power for cruise missles. also at default cruise missles goe 2000m/s which increases with skills. thats why they are failsafe.
u should know what ur talking about b4 u post something on these forums
uhm...what exactly is your point in the last statement?
Well...trust me i know what iŠm talking about 
And i agree, i donŠt wanna see missiles nerfed...(with the exeptionof the cruise missile hitting frigs for full damage, that just doesnt seem right for me). insted give us either better tracking for turrets or an alternative missile defense system (maybe chaff pods for frigates?)
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 23:51:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dsanta
-it takes at least 1 month to train cruise missles.
you have to have missle operation lvl 5 to train the cruise missle skill.
also need standard missles lvl 3 and heavy missles 3
wrong, it takes at max two weeks if you have reasonable high perception and willpower, missile launcher op is a rank one skill
Originally by: Dsanta
-cruise missles are not cheap....2480/uniot is not cheap.
i would change my seller, at the current yield of 100 units per prod run a devastator cruise missile doesnt cost more than 100 isk.
Originally by: Dsanta
-they do a fixed default damage which can be increased with skill lvl increases, same as proj ammo
-missles have a longer range than proj, u should read up on the accuracy fallout rates
-and its called dont fight in a battle with some that has a BS, since a BS is one of the few that have enough power for cruise missles. also at default cruise missles goe 2000m/s which increases with skills. thats why they are failsafe.
u should know what ur talking about b4 u post something on these forums
uhm...what exactly is your point in the last statement?
Well...trust me i know what iŠm talking about
And i agree, i donŠt wanna see missiles nerfed...(with the exeptionof the cruise missile hitting frigs for full damage, that just doesnt seem right for me). insted give us either better tracking for turrets or an alternative missile defense system (maybe chaff pods for frigates?)
Patience wins. |
F'nog
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:53:00 -
[85]
I hereby nominate Drunvalo as stupidest forum troll.
But on the topic at hand, I agree that missiles should have to lock you based on your ship signature. That's sort of how it works in real life (not quite) but they shouldn't be guarantee hit weapons. More skill in their use will defintely add more excitement to the game, rather than just who's faster. Maybe some skills or mods to break missile locks, etc.
Otherwise they're not really overbalanced, just too easy to use. They should require the skill and work it takes to use turrets.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:53:00 -
[86]
I hereby nominate Drunvalo as stupidest forum troll.
But on the topic at hand, I agree that missiles should have to lock you based on your ship signature. That's sort of how it works in real life (not quite) but they shouldn't be guarantee hit weapons. More skill in their use will defintely add more excitement to the game, rather than just who's faster. Maybe some skills or mods to break missile locks, etc.
Otherwise they're not really overbalanced, just too easy to use. They should require the skill and work it takes to use turrets.
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