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Repair drones..

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Astreaul Gallente EuDoTeK Forn Sidr Fyrd	Posted - 2010.04.29 12:47:00 - [1] why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense
Noveron Caldari Aitnaru	Posted - 2010.04.29 12:55:00 - [2] +1 ---
suspisious	Posted - 2010.04.29 13:00:00 - [3] Been wondering about that, the moment I first used them.
Jedziah Core Impulse	Posted - 2010.04.29 14:51:00 - [4] Originally by: suspisious Been wondering about that, the moment I first used them. I'm calling the Ultra drone rep Guardian as the new FoTM solo ship if this happens :) I can't see a justifiable reason not to. A ship would sacrifice notable dps to utilise this, especially in a BS against smaller craft where drones will normally make up a significant portion of the damage.
ChoppaFusion	Posted - 2010.04.29 15:21:00 - [5] +1
DXYOC	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:15:00 - [6] -1
James Razor Amarr The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:22:00 - [7] +1
Aurelius Valentius Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:32:00 - [8] There are a number of things in EVE that, IMHO, are designed to make people co-operate for the benefit or the use of things. If you note this, when looking at the specific aspects of the game you will realize that reality, or untility is undermined by this specifically to force a team-work need in order to maximize or untilize, regardless of the logic or the reality - this is one of these things. I have found this the only explanation for this and similar things - CCP doesn't want people to play in a vacuum (hehe) or at least if you do there is a penalty for it.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2010.04.29 18:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense Because then you would be able to create tank without spending slots for it. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Slimy Worm	Posted - 2010.04.29 19:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense It would allow ships to use 5m3 of drone space and be able to deadspace repair so they wouldn't have to use a low slot on a repper. It would only be practical for small ships like Enyos and Ishkurs, though.

Astreaul Gallente EuDoTeK Forn Sidr Fyrd	Posted - 2010.04.29 19:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Slimy Worm Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense It would allow ships to use 5m3 of drone space and be able to deadspace repair so they wouldn't have to use a low slot on a repper. It would only be practical for small ships like Enyos and Ishkurs, though. im planing on using it for that
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.29 20:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense Because in order to repair yourself you have to first be able to target yourself. I think your real question should be "Why can't I target my own ship?" Hmm. Remote repping battleships that can target themselves. Those utility highs are starting to look more and more attractive. --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
WAAAAAAGH	Posted - 2010.04.29 20:40:00 - [13] Edited by: WAAAAAAGH on 29/04/2010 20:41:58 Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense Because in order to repair yourself you have to first be able to target yourself. I think your real question should be "Why can't I target my own ship?" Hmm. Remote repping battleships that can target themselves. Those utility highs are starting to look more and more attractive. Im sorry, but I disagree here. With drones you can kinda already target yourself since you can order the drones to orbit "you" and return to "you". The drones have targetting mechanisms so they can operate on their own. That's how dominix can b AFK drone boat. So it just don't add up that the drones can't repair "you". Edit: Typing slower than I think.
Irn Bruce	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:07:00 - [14] Reason why not: Technical, no mechanism for targeting oneself, therefore no means to give that command to the drones. They were not intended for self repair, therefore no incentive to introduce such a command. Implications: Drones cannot be used for self tank. This is good, as 5 T2 heavy rep drones equates to almost a LAR II, but with zero cap use, fast cycle time, and the impact on DPS is not really worth considering on a ship that doesn't rely on drones for DPS (Geddon or Phoon for example). Impact if the change was made: Self targeted rep drones become FotM, every buffer tanked BS that's not a Domi effectively gains a passive recharge on its armor, meaning there's a stealth nerf to the domi, because it has to lose its DPS to keep up in terms of tank. In short, nice for PvE, nasty for PvP. Therefore, not a good change.
Firartix	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:24:00 - [15] How about modifying it some other way ? EG, Self Repairing with a BS would be factored 0.2 to counter their large bay, 0.4 on a BC, 0.5 on cruisers, and 0.75 on Frigates. Capitals and stuff would be at full effiency though, because i don't think it really matters in their case. You could also make the drones auto-repair when orbiting. After all, it's not like you have to enable or disable them in any way, they don't use cap. If you don't rep someone else, just have em rep yourself.
Astreaul Gallente EuDoTeK Forn Sidr Fyrd	Posted - 2010.04.30 10:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Astreaul on 30/04/2010 10:21:23 bumpty bump
Ugly Eric	Posted - 2010.04.30 10:36:00 - [17] I do not like this idea. ships like Ishkur, dramiel and myrmidon would be impossible to kill. Ishkur and the dramiel are hard to hit anyway, not to talk, if they get a tank that cost only a bit of DPS. Especially in the cases of dramiel and myrm, gila maybe, where the drones are able to be just the extra DPS. Try to kill a triple rep myrm, with 3x heavy armor bot II (or 5 medium ones) on itself. Try to kill a dramiel, whitch has its 2km/s, 80dps active cap stable tank, + 3 light shield bots. Try to kill a Gila with 5 heavy shield bots + its own tank. Not to mention ships like Ishtar whitch quickly would find users with turrets fitted. t2 resists + its own shield (or armor) buffer tank with 5 heavy bot II's. Unkillable it would be. hek, even the vagabond would be a completely different ship, or the cynabal. They already are hard to hit kind of ships.. what if there would be a free of cap and slots light repper to shields? It will not rep that much, but it will absorb all the enemy dronedamage those ships get. And THAT is a lot. Then there would always be the bait domi. 3 x LAR II + heavy repper bots equals to 4 LAR II's. thats a lot of repping. How about the phoon, whitch can give .. say 1000 dps in gank setup, still have a almost 80k effective hp (shield gank version) and it would get a large shield booster II, whitch is about the same, what those 5 large shield maintaince bot II's will do. As someone already said, great to PvE, death to PvP. -10 to this from me. Eric
Jedziah Core Impulse	Posted - 2010.04.30 11:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Ugly Eric I do not like this idea. ships like Ishkur, dramiel and myrmidon would be impossible to kill. Ishkur and the dramiel are hard to hit anyway, not to talk, if they get a tank that cost only a bit of DPS. Especially in the cases of dramiel and myrm, gila maybe, where the drones are able to be just the extra DPS. Try to kill a triple rep myrm, with 3x heavy armor bot II (or 5 medium ones) on itself. Try to kill a dramiel, whitch has its 2km/s, 80dps active cap stable tank, + 3 light shield bots. Try to kill a Gila with 5 heavy shield bots + its own tank. Not to mention ships like Ishtar whitch quickly would find users with turrets fitted. t2 resists + its own shield (or armor) buffer tank with 5 heavy bot II's. Unkillable it would be. hek, even the vagabond would be a completely different ship, or the cynabal. They already are hard to hit kind of ships.. what if there would be a free of cap and slots light repper to shields? It will not rep that much, but it will absorb all the enemy dronedamage those ships get. And THAT is a lot. Then there would always be the bait domi. 3 x LAR II + heavy repper bots equals to 4 LAR II's. thats a lot of repping. How about the phoon, whitch can give .. say 1000 dps in gank setup, still have a almost 80k effective hp (shield gank version) and it would get a large shield booster II, whitch is about the same, what those 5 large shield maintaince bot II's will do. As someone already said, great to PvE, death to PvP. -10 to this from me. Eric You word this in a way that makes it sound like a maintenance drone is unkillable. Yes it would provide an extra tanking option but at significant cost. Any 5x Heavy Drone ship will be sacrificing 300+ dps to maintain a self tank which is significant, even on a Megathron/Geddon. Smaller targets are a serious issue without damage drones to deal with for a Battleship with 3 mid slots. Heavy Armour Maintenance bots could be wiped out with a smartbomb rapidly, or even by damage drones/guns. Again, the same with a Taranis/Dramiel. You are sacrificing more than just a number to have these bots repping you. The Dramiel/Ranis also will sacrifice significant damage dealt to their target before creating their optimal range solution for their guns, again providing the victim with longer to adjust or counter the ship. An Ishtar with no bonus to the shield/armour maint bots would be sacrificing so much dps to tank a bit more it would be nearly pointless flying the ship that way. They would never keep up with a shield/mwd (also similar with a Vaga/Cynabal that could use lights at best to maintain repair upon them) one so it would switch from being a well used kiting HAC to being forced to engage at minimal range, putting it in the firing line of a number of ships that could not deal with one before. Death to PvP is a horrendously extreme statement. It would make for some interesting tactics certainly. Some ships would no doubt improve, some would not be flown any differently to the way they are now. The key is that the tactic is tremendously counter-able and comes at a big cost in damage.
Party Scout	Posted - 2010.04.30 13:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense I have to agree with this. It does not make any sense technical wise. But balance wise it may. I do have to agree with the other posters. This would be a boon for PVE, not so much for PVP. Sacrifice damage drones for rep drones is a fair trade. And also, players can quickly kill drones if they really want to.
Torothanax	Posted - 2010.04.30 15:15:00 - [20] Edited by: Torothanax on 30/04/2010 15:19:12 Why can't you ecm/ecm burst drones? Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense Originally by: De'Veldrin Because in order to repair yourself you have to first be able to target yourself. I think your real question should be "Why can't I target my own ship?" Hmm. Remote repping battleships that can target themselves. Those utility highs are starting to look more and more attractive. Oh and this ---^ It's because of the way the game is programmed and balanced that you can't remote repair yourself; drones or otherwise.

De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.30 15:34:00 - [21] Originally by: WAAAAAAGH Edited by: WAAAAAAGH on 29/04/2010 20:41:58 Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Astreaul why is it that you cant repair yourself? it makes no sense Because in order to repair yourself you have to first be able to target yourself. I think your real question should be "Why can't I target my own ship?" Hmm. Remote repping battleships that can target themselves. Those utility highs are starting to look more and more attractive. Im sorry, but I disagree here. With drones you can kinda already target yourself since you can order the drones to orbit "you" and return to "you". The drones have targetting mechanisms so they can operate on their own. That's how dominix can b AFK drone boat. So it just don't add up that the drones can't repair "you". Edit: Typing slower than I think. Are you discussing this from an in-game rp persepective or a game mechanic perspective. My answer was based on the assumption of the latter. --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
Astreaul Gallente EuDoTeK Forn Sidr Fyrd	Posted - 2010.05.02 15:22:00 - [22] +1 on my own :p
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.05.02 16:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Ugly Eric I do not like this idea. ships like Ishkur, dramiel and myrmidon would be impossible to kill. Ishkur and the dramiel are hard to hit anyway, not to talk, if they get a tank that cost only a bit of DPS. Especially in the cases of dramiel and myrm, gila maybe, where the drones are able to be just the extra DPS. Try to kill a triple rep myrm, with 3x heavy armor bot II (or 5 medium ones) on itself. Try to kill a dramiel, whitch has its 2km/s, 80dps active cap stable tank, + 3 light shield bots. Try to kill a Gila with 5 heavy shield bots + its own tank. Not to mention ships like Ishtar whitch quickly would find users with turrets fitted. t2 resists + its own shield (or armor) buffer tank with 5 heavy bot II's. Unkillable it would be. hek, even the vagabond would be a completely different ship, or the cynabal. They already are hard to hit kind of ships.. what if there would be a free of cap and slots light repper to shields? It will not rep that much, but it will absorb all the enemy dronedamage those ships get. And THAT is a lot. Then there would always be the bait domi. 3 x LAR II + heavy repper bots equals to 4 LAR II's. thats a lot of repping. How about the phoon, whitch can give .. say 1000 dps in gank setup, still have a almost 80k effective hp (shield gank version) and it would get a large shield booster II, whitch is about the same, what those 5 large shield maintaince bot II's will do. As someone already said, great to PvE, death to PvP. -10 to this from me. Eric You do realize that using a dedicated drone boat, only to field drones to repair aforementioned drone boat, is kind of like buying a battery to power a battery recharger, which is only used to recharge the battery to power the recharger, right..? In that, it accomplishes absolutely nothing, and will fail anyway. Heavy maintenance drones are only, what, 60 transfer? So 300/5 seconds... A single RR module is 384/4.5 seconds You're sacrificing 300 DPS (on the non-dedicated drone carriers), or the ENTIRE PURPOSE OF YOUR SHIP (on dedicated drone carriers) for something inferior to a single large repairer? You mention a 3x rep domi. Ok, answer me this: A domi has almost no powergrid. Three repairers and an injector to cover them? No powergrid left. It's drones are rep drones? What can this ship do besides sit there and tank? You could just ignore the thing. Same with a rep drone ishtar, ishkur, etc etc etc...
Derth Deteis	Posted - 2010.05.05 23:18:00 - [24] imagine a domnix repping itself with dual large reppers 5x large rep drones and a blaster set up that would be an epic tank
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.05.06 00:38:00 - [25] The reason this isn't a great idea from a game balance perspective is that you gain the advantages of a passive tank with none of the disadvantages. --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
Protector X	Posted - 2010.05.09 11:06:00 - [26] +1 Its not that big of an advantage considering drones are indeed killable, and if its so much of a big advantage, make them slower with a larger signature radius so they are even easier to kill. But i believe a choice between dps drones to take out small fast ships that your large turrets cant hit or repair drones that dont attack at all is choice enough to keep a pilot wondering about what situations he will encounter and which to bring. You best believe if im shooting a ship and im getting in that @$$ and it launches repair drones, im gonna have some new primary targets.
Ugly Eric	Posted - 2010.05.09 11:52:00 - [27] I've flewn long enough around New Eden to find out, that there always is those ones, who prefer the maximum tank over the DPS. No matter how crappy the DPS is. I've been fighting in a 4 frig gang against 3 turtledrakes, so even when they consentrated fire on a single ab frigate, the dps couldn't get thuru the passive shield recharge. We couldn't kill them either ofcourse. But you forget again, that the 300/5 seconds rep that the large armor bot I do, is a pretty damned significant repping amount on a t2 cruisers with t2 resists. You do also seem to be completely ignorrant about the fact that drones really are invulnerable (thus loosing ther repping/dps about 50%) if used right and they have no flight time whatsoever. Just take them in and out to rep a cycle, back in, out and rep a cycle. Yes, they could be killed by a Smart bomb, but there really is not that much smartbombers anywhere, but on lowsec gates. Also the drones are pretty damned hard to shoot down, if you are in some digger ship, with bad range/tracking. Even the large ones moves too fast to bs sized weapons, mediums are barely trackable to medium weaponry. Yes, you could always fit more tracking computers and such, but does that really make any sense? Make people fit YET ANOTHER mandatory PvP module? However I do agree with the fact, that it would be more than nice to be able to repair myself with drones, especially aftmatch. It would be great to go and wait for GCC to run out and let teh drones to do the work. Eric
suspisious	Posted - 2010.05.09 12:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Ugly Eric You do also seem to be completely ignorrant about the fact that drones really are invulnerable (thus loosing ther repping/dps about 50%) if used right and they have no flight time whatsoever. Just take them in and out to rep a cycle, back in, out and rep a cycle. Yes, they could be killed by a Smart bomb, but there really is not that much smartbombers anywhere, but on lowsec gates. People would definetly try that. Using the drones for a single cycle and then pulling em back in. It think this can be prevented if the drones only start repairing you after a 10(isch) seconds of orbiting you (idle). And definetly usefull for after the battle for fixing yourself.
Katy Ling Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.10 16:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Aurelius Valentius I have found this the only explanation for this and similar things - CCP doesn't want people to play in a vacuum (hehe) or at least if you do there is a penalty for it. yes, still ther's mechanisms that allow to have an alt remote reping you althow, a simple right click option, to issue an order to the drones : "repair me" would be nice.
Aerilis Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.10 17:51:00 - [30] +9000 Not like CCP will pay any heed though



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