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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.29 19:38:00 -
[571]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I don't think it's gonna be lagrange points. I figure it's just a matter of going deep enough into the WH network. Check this quote from the Eve wiki about wormholes:
Quote: Secondly, the wormhole might lead to an area of undiscovered and uncharted wormhole space (or ôw-spaceö). There are six levels of wormhole space, graded from 1 to 6. Class 1 to Class 3 wormhole space can connect to known, or k-space, as well as other w-space. Class 4 to Class 6 wormhole space connects to w-space areas. So far, no one has found w-space extending more than five wormholes from an exit wormhole to k-space.
So far, huh...
I bet there's a system we haven't found yet, one we're meant to find eventually though. It's gonna be six systems deep from empire.
I've gone through the API stats for all C6 W-space systems on Dotlan, and every single one of them has been visited numerous times just the past month. Unless there's a special system that isn't even in the API I think it's safe to say we've been to all of them. -----
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.08.29 20:48:00 -
[572]
Well, I guess that concludes that mystery
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Rocky Woman
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Posted - 2010.08.29 22:34:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai I've gone through the API stats for all C6 W-space systems on Dotlan
and how about the other classes? :p
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Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.08.30 05:21:00 -
[574]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear The short answer is that the two are not as interchangeable as you might think.
The longer answer is that returning the focus to Sleepers after the first time (COSMOS) allowed us to continue developing a plotline that is as old as EVE itself. So let me put your fears to rest; we weren't unthinkingly reviving something newer as filler at the expense of using something else that's more established. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Think about that. It may not make sense at first. The complexity of the Sleeper's story runs so deeply that it may take some time to understand. Some time indeed, but you should think about it all the same, if you ever want to understand. The pieces of this puzzle are scattered across a wide area, and a stretch of time unlike any event in EVE has seen before. If you think anyone forgot about developing this storyline, if you think the "silence" right now is indicative of apathy or disregard at our end, then you're (quite understandably) assuming that all of this is being done on the traditional timescale - but that is not the case. All of this - all of it - is unfolding in real time, and it will take either a genius or a collective effort to make sense of the whole from the fragments that remain. We are watching and waiting for the day to come when the capsuleers will move this particular storyline forward. We are still waiting.
Let me tell you now that if you look closely at all things Sleeper, you will be rewarded for it. Nothing was put anywhere by mistake, and very, very, little of it is what you could describe as "filler". When it comes to the Sleepers, each stroke on the canvas was meant to be there and each part serves a purpose, whether little or...big. There are depths to this storyline that nobody has explored, complexities that have not yet been understood, mysteries that are still waiting to be unraveled, and this is a year and half after the discovery of Anoik...wormhole space.
There's more out there than people have realized, and more in store than you might expect.
If you think I'm being overly cryptic, then when you all understand this, you'll also understand why. Simply put, we don't want to destroy the mystery because it's not for us to spell it out to you all. That's the point of all of this - for you all to figure it out. Consider it an experiment in interactive storytelling, and one that has really only just begun.
But to add just a little more specificity to what will probably otherwise be seen as a cryptic response...I'll give you a specific (but relatively minor in the scheme of things) example of what sort of things you can all discover, if you only try - of how a simple bit of awareness and induction can carry you a long way in this storyline:
Throughout wormhole space you will encounter strange anomalies known as the Oruze Construct, and Oruze Osobnyk. Osobnyk already has its own input, but Oruze? What does that mean?
Well, Pottsey made an interesting discovery not so long ago, but the depth of what had been discovered still remains lost on you capsuleers. Take a good, long, look at this. It should shed some....light...on what Oruze might mean.
This same process of induction can be applied to many, many things out there. I suggest you all keep investigating, and most importantly, keep theorizing. You've a lot left to piece together.
All my love, CCP Dropbear
P.S. I know I drifted away from a direct response there, but Ghost, you gave me an opportunity to say some things I've wanted to for a long time.
seems like they were messing with some sort of bioengineering feet to power the sleepers off renewable energy sources such as light... _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.08.30 07:26:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Goremageddon seems like they were messing with some sort of bioengineering feet to power the sleepers off renewable energy source
I know it's been mentioned and alluded to before, but most of the systems in Anoikis has some significant source of background energy present, besides the system's own star. Some have pulsars, some have red giants, some have black holes (the accretion disk puts out a large amount of energy), and some others like mine have two other large yellow stars shining nearby.
I know that many wormholes don't have a cosmic anomaly to go with the background effects, but I can't remember how many wormholes I've seen don't have at least some sort of scenery to suggest lots of radiant background energy.
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khazak mokl
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.08.30 08:10:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I don't think it's gonna be lagrange points. I figure it's just a matter of going deep enough into the WH network. Check this quote from the Eve wiki about wormholes:
Quote: Secondly, the wormhole might lead to an area of undiscovered and uncharted wormhole space (or ôw-spaceö). There are six levels of wormhole space, graded from 1 to 6. Class 1 to Class 3 wormhole space can connect to known, or k-space, as well as other w-space. Class 4 to Class 6 wormhole space connects to w-space areas. So far, no one has found w-space extending more than five wormholes from an exit wormhole to k-space.
So far, huh...
I bet there's a system we haven't found yet, one we're meant to find eventually though. It's gonna be six systems deep from empire.
As part of operation FARSEER we closed and opened over 150 C5 wormhole systems trying to locate J235456 in the space of 3 or 4 days. As part of this operation I kept note of all the J numbers of the systems we found so I could prove one way or the other that the new WHs spawn in different constellations and regions and not just linked to one. The procedure would be to jumpo into hole. Check if its J235456. If not close the hole and check dotlan to record the region and constellation number for the records. On the second day we found a system that wasnt J235456 and proceded to close it. But when I checked dotlan there was no record of this J number. Needless to say I was a bit ****ed off and was thinking I had written the J number down wrong but out of the 150 plus numbers we had had so far all the rest were written correct so I was not convinced. But then again its more likely to be a bad case of me wanting to find the holy grail lol.
Not that its worth much but the J number I had writen down was J170136.
On a different note a friend recently mentioned that C4's are the only class that dont have a link to K space as far as I know. Significant or not?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.30 12:59:00 -
[577]
Originally by: khazak mokl
Not that its worth much but the J number I had writen down was J170136.
Searching the locus database there is not a J170136 system.
There are: J170038, J170106, J170132, 170158, J171136.
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khazak mokl
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.08.30 17:41:00 -
[578]
Edited by: khazak mokl on 30/08/2010 17:44:27
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: khazak mokl
Not that its worth much but the J number I had writen down was J170136.
Searching the locus database there is not a J170136 system.
There are: J170038, J170106, J170132, 170158, J171136.
Please train up reading to V.
The point of the post was that there is no record of that J number in the database so either I writen the J number down wrong or It could have been the missing WH system. My 2 cents is I got a bad case of writers block and just f*cked up and written it wrong but you never know as all the other 150 odd were written correctly and all checked out on the data base.
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.01 14:28:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Rocky Woman
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai I've gone through the API stats for all C6 W-space systems on Dotlan
and how about the other classes? :p
I felt it would be a good idea to limit my search as much as possible, as the prospect of milling through 2500 W-space systems did not appeal to me.
If you wanna have a go though: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Unknown_R01
Go through each W-space region in turn (there are 30 of them). Open up all the systems in the region, check their stats. First weed out the ones that have had jumps in the last 48 hours. Then for the next step, go into the "statistics" page, and weed out all systems that have had visits the past month. Then you manually change the timescale parameters (a big pain in the ass as they hop around and do as they like half the time) and go back until you find a jump, then eliminate that system also.
I'm sure it can be automated if someone coded an API lookup specifically for it, but I'm also sure it would generate a grand total of zero unvisited systems.
-----
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Ivvor
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Posted - 2010.09.01 17:53:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
I'm sure it can be automated if someone coded an API lookup specifically for it, but I'm also sure it would generate a grand total of zero unvisited systems.
I did something roughly along these lines and filtered out as many systems as possible, checking the rest manually via Dotlan. The results were that of 2498 systems checked, all have had activity within the last 28 days, and most within the last week or so. Class 1 systems appear to be the least frequently visited by quite a margin.
We can speculate on whether system #2499 (or indeed #2500) exists or is in k-space, but it doesn't appear to be making it's presence known by any obvious search of the systems database.
The class 4 site 'Integrated Terminus' still appears to be broken so investigation on the relationship between Talocan and Sleeper is going to be difficult.
Has anybody tried to interact with the class 6 site 'The Mirror' lately to see if it does anything else or has any interactive features? I'm hoping to get a Zephyr there at some point but events in my home WH are preventing that at this time.
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Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.03 18:54:00 -
[581]
I've just bumped into a reference to sleepers in a COSMOS mission called 'Ripple Effects' issued by Tzumi Pokkolen in Nakugard. Sends you to a nearby dungeon to pick up some sleeper relic...no further data at present, but since we're desperate for data on sleepers, i thought i'd post it all the same.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.04 15:57:00 -
[582]
Originally by: Drifnir Edited by: Drifnir on 03/09/2010 19:11:14 I've just bumped into a reference to sleepers in a COSMOS mission called 'Ripple Effects' issued by Tzumi Pokkolen in Nakugard. Sends you to a nearby dungeon to pick up some sleeper relic...
Interesting. There is no listing of this mission at eve-survival.org. Maybe a rare/unique mission?
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Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.04 23:31:00 -
[583]
Originally by: Arvash
Originally by: Drifnir Edited by: Drifnir on 03/09/2010 19:11:14 I've just bumped into a reference to sleepers in a COSMOS mission called 'Ripple Effects' issued by Tzumi Pokkolen in Nakugard. Sends you to a nearby dungeon to pick up some sleeper relic...
Interesting. There is no listing of this mission at eve-survival.org. Maybe a rare/unique mission?
Just one of the old, and sometimes broken, COSMOS missions...gues the sleepers have been around for a couple of years, before they were unleashed in Apocrypha.
On a different note, today i ran through the Anel Cartel Epic Arc missions (incidentally, these were added to eve along with wormholes in Apocrypha) out in nullsec. They made reference to research the cartel was doing out there, and the decor in one of them was a 'sun, surrounded by particle nullifiers (or some such, i forgot to get a screenie, apologies gents...loads of hostiles in system at that point), however it looked suspiciously like they were trying to replicate what the sleepers have mastered, namely harvesting energy off of small, controlled suns. It may also be because i'm seeing sleeper relics/influence all over these days...this stuff has been nagging at me (I hate you Dropbear). Once again i urge better and brighter minds to take a look at this stuff and report back. I think it was the 3rd or 4th mission into the arc that spawned these things.
It's late....i hope this stuff makes a bit of sense to others.
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Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
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Posted - 2010.09.06 15:30:00 -
[584]
Edited by: Haldane IV on 06/09/2010 15:34:28 Returning to the Title of this Thread:
"Why Sleepers instead of the Rogue Drones"
The, to my mind absolutely splendidly written new Chronicle "Jita 4-4" concludes:-
"The question: What if we just stayed out there and never returned to another clone?
What if we could live out there, and build a bright and better world in that space between?"
Phew. Is that the answer to Ghost Hunters' initial question?
*******
I draw your attention to the assertion in Part I that a capsuleer cannot sleep in Jita.
And all that stuff about fish farming in Part I -
Is that referencing "The River" the scientist sent to observe The Mirror failed to cross? I think it is.
Cos we're the fishes, me and you. And swim around, is all we do
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.07 12:25:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Drifnir
Originally by: Arvash
Originally by: Drifnir Edited by: Drifnir on 03/09/2010 19:11:14 I've just bumped into a reference to sleepers in a COSMOS mission called 'Ripple Effects' issued by Tzumi Pokkolen in Nakugard. Sends you to a nearby dungeon to pick up some sleeper relic...
Interesting. There is no listing of this mission at eve-survival.org. Maybe a rare/unique mission?
Just one of the old, and sometimes broken, COSMOS missions...gues the sleepers have been around for a couple of years, before they were unleashed in Apocrypha.
On a different note, today i ran through the Anel Cartel Epic Arc missions (incidentally, these were added to eve along with wormholes in Apocrypha) out in nullsec. They made reference to research the cartel was doing out there, and the decor in one of them was a 'sun, surrounded by particle nullifiers (or some such, i forgot to get a screenie, apologies gents...loads of hostiles in system at that point), however it looked suspiciously like they were trying to replicate what the sleepers have mastered, namely harvesting energy off of small, controlled suns. It may also be because i'm seeing sleeper relics/influence all over these days...this stuff has been nagging at me (I hate you Dropbear). Once again i urge better and brighter minds to take a look at this stuff and report back. I think it was the 3rd or 4th mission into the arc that spawned these things.
It's late....i hope this stuff makes a bit of sense to others.
I'd point out that the Angels' stuff would be either old technology the Jove left behind, or prototype technology the Jove abandoned - kinda like Emergent AI. -----
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.08 02:35:00 -
[586]
Edited by: Moleculor on 08/09/2010 02:37:10 Edited by: Moleculor on 08/09/2010 02:36:16 So, I'm a newbie. Srsly. I've not read the novels, I've played all of maybe five months, and have a hard time following the fiction as it's posted to the website, so this post may be the EVE Fiction equivalent of a small child coming in and talking about Santa Claus like he's real. Cute, but ignorant.
I just read Jita 4-4, the latest EVE Chronicle, and the last section went and slapped me upside the head.
What are viruses? They're a shell containing a spring that shoves out a packet of data into whatever the shell is designed to attach to.
Wormhole space? It's populated by infomorphs. People who are "just" data now.
Sleepers? The immune system of the entire infomorph organism.
Us? Viruses. Our pods are viruses, designed to transmit the data in our brain into whatever it's configured to inject it into.
The Sleeper drones recognize the nature of capsuleers as a potential "viral" threat to the infomorph organism that exists and permeates wormhole space, and thus react to it in much the same way an immune system does. Hostility.
Or has this already been mentioned, and I'm just "remembering" something I read months back as if it were an original idea?
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.09.08 04:31:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Moleculor Or has this already been mentioned, and I'm just "remembering" something I read months back as if it were an original idea?
It's basically just a much more complex way of saying that the Sleepers are protecting their sites from us. Which you can realize as soon as you warp in.
I'm not sure if your post was implying anything more useful than that.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.08 05:22:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Moleculor I just read Jita 4-4, the latest EVE Chronicle, and the last section went and slapped me upside the head.
What are viruses? They're a shell containing a spring that shoves out a packet of data into whatever the shell is designed to attach to.
Wormhole space? It's populated by infomorphs. People who are "just" data now.
Sleepers? The immune system of the entire infomorph organism.
Us? Viruses. Our pods are viruses, designed to transmit the data in our brain into whatever it's configured to inject it into.
While I too am too new to all of this to have 100% vision, there is a recurring theme around clone jumps here in the Chronicles. Latest in Jita 4-4, but there was a clear reference in the fall of Seyllin chron that something went awry when the scientest who found the wormhole happened to have a clone. This was implied if I recall in two separate chrons on the incident - one in which the scientist herself noted it and one in which the "dark group in the boardroom" mentioned it (may have been two parts of same chron).
Forgive me, I'm tired and it's late, but I'm hoping some of the vets see the connection I'm making. Dropbear's chrons have made several references to touching the Sleeper constructs, data transmission from "meatspace" to infomorph, and the capsuleers' cloning technology. It seems to me too common a thread to ignore - maybe Dropbear's tired of waiting for us to get the hint and is repeating himself?
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.09.08 08:11:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Arvash While I too am too new to all of this to have 100% vision, there is a recurring theme around clone jumps here in the Chronicles. Latest in Jita 4-4, but there was a clear reference in the fall of Seyllin chron that something went awry when the scientest who found the wormhole happened to have a clone. This was implied if I recall in two separate chrons on the incident - one in which the scientist herself noted it and one in which the "dark group in the boardroom" mentioned it (may have been two parts of same chron).
Forgive me, I'm tired and it's late, but I'm hoping some of the vets see the connection I'm making. Dropbear's chrons have made several references to touching the Sleeper constructs, data transmission from "meatspace" to infomorph, and the capsuleers' cloning technology. It seems to me too common a thread to ignore - maybe Dropbear's tired of waiting for us to get the hint and is repeating himself?
I kept thinking that Dropbear was suggesting we pod ourselves near a sleeper construct (most likely the mirror) so that our bits would get sucked up into the Sleeper stream. No such luck on my end from experimenting, however. Perhaps the connection is more subtle?
And as an off-hand idea, what are the kinds of ships that can house cloning vats anyway?
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Minchurra
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.08 08:24:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Nathan Jameson And as an off-hand idea, what are the kinds of ships that can house cloning vats anyway?
Titans and Rorquals.
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.08 11:51:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Nathan Jameson I kept thinking that Dropbear was suggesting we pod ourselves near a sleeper construct (most likely the mirror) so that our bits would get sucked up into the Sleeper stream. No such luck on my end from experimenting, however. Perhaps the connection is more subtle?
And as an off-hand idea, what are the kinds of ships that can house cloning vats anyway?
What's your Infomorph Psychology trained to?
And it's odd how this infomorph idea is mentioned alongside C3-FTM. I'm sure the stuff has been produced inside wormholes before, right? I'm not an expert on how it's made, so maybe not. Maybe it wouldn't normally be. Has anyone ever taken some inside a wormhole and seen what they might be able to do with it?
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.09.08 17:38:00 -
[592]
The Jita 4-4 chron feels like it's narrated by Dropbear himself:
Quote: Perhaps I've been moving too fast. Perhaps I've not explained enough for you yet. You don't really understand where we are, what made it possible, or even what a capsuleer is. You certainly won't appreciate what happens next until you grasp a few basics, and you're far from that. Well, that would be my intention, yes. But this is how I started out, you see. I'm not about to give you any advantages. Take it from someone who actually became a capsuleer, from someone who knows more than enough, that we all begin here û drowning in the deep end, trying to make sense of these things. Jita 4-4 is a good place to start. It's designed to disorient you. If you can start to make sense of it, though, you will start to understand a great deal. But try to understand, also, that I won't make this easy on you, for the simple reason that it wasn't easy on me.
Really getting that "beaten over the head with hints" feeling...
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.09.08 18:01:00 -
[593]
Hmmmmmm... maybe, the problem is that we *have* clones. Even crappy default clones, assuming we don't buy a better one, will still end up back in empire.
Maybe we're supposed to biomass near a Mirror? :p
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.08 18:13:00 -
[594]
I think we should be cautious about taking it to literally.
I think its steeped in metaphors.
I have raised something in the other thread, which I think is pretty profound.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:11:00 -
[595]
Well, he's not just a capsuleer, he's a blood raider on top of things. I think that's what he was referring to with "his own kind."
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:24:00 -
[596]
This line bugs me too:
Quote: She seems genuinely interested in the idea. Whether because of its potential or historical application, I can't tell.
Potential or historical application...
So, C3-FTM has a historical application. That's to facilitate mental compartmentalization in capsuleers.
What's the "potential" application? Do we have to kill ourselves near a mirror while slathered in C3-FTM?
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.08 20:49:00 -
[597]
Alright, so here's the plan.
Someone park a Rorqual with a clone bay next to The Mirror, and someone else kill themselves by flooding their pod with C3-FTM, drowning themselves.
Wait, do Rorquals have medical clones, or just jump ones? Maybe just jumping into a Rorqual with C3-FTM in the cargo bay would work.
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Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
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Posted - 2010.09.08 22:40:00 -
[598]
Edited by: Haldane IV on 08/09/2010 22:42:40 Re: C3-FTM
The item description for C3ûFTM refers to it as something that is used in (Pod) life support systems to limit brain cell-death (aka Anoikis), rather than as an aide to the function compartmentalisation usage referred to in Jita 4-4.
So, the revelation in Jita 4-4 that Capsuleers have found another use for the drug does open the door to any number of possible potential uses I guess.*
*edit - I stand to be corrected by someone who does drug production if that use was in fact already common knowledge
- By the way, I donÆt recall seeing any discussion or theory on why the Mirrors are actually called ôMirrorsö? û I wonder, is it because they are reflecting something (around), or collecting something (solar energy), or mirroring something?
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Henri Rearden
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.08 23:38:00 -
[599]
Ok, we have a bunch of new obvious data and some not quite as obvious. C3 became much more prevalent once w-space opened. So, C3 comes from W-space. C3 is used for compartmentalizing different parts of a capsuleer's mind in different areas. Literal suggestion that there is a better alternative to clones. presumably machine-based and distributed over more than one machine. There are quarantine areas in the sleeper sites. I propose that the sleeper sites are a scheme for immortality and some other function as yet unknown. The quarantine areas are not for a physical malady, but areas in which the minds of those who are being infomorphed are compartmentalized using C3 so that only the desirable parts of their minds are copied. They have established a more stable and reliable method of guaranteeing their immortality than relying on technicians in a cloning facility. Also, this might be a prep step for establishing lore to back up Incarna and DUST. I would bet that the narrator in Jita 4-4 didn't bring all of himself along when he exited his pod... if indeed he did exit his pod rather than jumping a small core part of himself to a cheap low-grade clone. There's no reason this could theoretically be impossible, since with zero skill points the crappiest clone is good enough. His fear of being shot is paranoia because this is a throwaway body... rationally, it will just cost the few ISK to replace the clone if it dies.
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Eurulf Ofinur
Minmatar Red Ochre Mining and Exploration
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Posted - 2010.09.09 15:09:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu What's the "potential" application? Do we have to kill ourselves near a mirror while slathered in C3-FTM?
Intergalactic Summit
tl;dr (Yeesh, look at that wall of text. I might benefit from expressing myself more succintly):
-C3-FTM is a necessary component in Sansha brainwashing or Slave production -Sansha are manufacturing it in large quantities and dumping the excess on the black market -The manufacturing is happening in wormhole space (or I'm wrong and in-character-wise, they're just very good at covering their tracks)
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