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CCP: Sleepers instead of the Rogue Drones?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 19 post(s)
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.09.10 15:41:00 - [601] Oh yeah, we've figured they were infomorphs for a while now. At first I actually suspected that Sansha was somehow being manipulated into kidnapping fleshies and donating their bodies to the Sleepers, whose own bodies decayed to dust millenia ago, so they could take another crack at corporeal existence.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.10 21:53:00 - [602] Originally by: Eurulf Ofinur I think it's pretty clear, especially with the hints dropped in this chronicle, that the Sleepers themselves are an infomorph/upload society, though. Remember all that flavor text about massive amounts of data transmissions being routed through Sleeper sites? That's the Sleepers traveling around Smile Or something like that. I also think it is pretty clear but where in the chronicle do you see hints towards that. I need to reread it anyway.
Myxx Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.11 02:33:00 - [603] Just something I want to point out. Its probably pretty obvious, but I think its a fairly large clue being thrown at us. C3-FTM: Quote: Difficult to procure and expensive to create, this rare chemical compound plays an important role as a neuroprotective agent for capsule pilots. It is integrated into the life-support systems on board a capsuleerÆs vessel, where it helps limit brain cell death and neurodegeneration. From Anoikis: Quote: Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never *remembered* who it was that closed you in. - Ior Labron. Also, definition of Anoikis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoikis Quote: Anoikis is a form of programmed cell death which is induced by anchorage-dependent cells detaching from the surrounding extracellular matrix (ECM).[1] Usually cells stay close to the tissue to which they belong since the *communication* between proximal cells as well as between cells and ECM provide essential signals for growth or survival. When cells are detached from the ECM, i.e. there is a loss of normal cell-matrix interactions, they may undergo anoikis. However, metastatic tumor cells may escape from anoikis and invade other organs. and then, from the Jita chronicle: Quote: The idea of the informorph. The question: What if we just stayed out there and never returned to another clone? What if we could live out there, and build a bright and better world in that space between? could this not be what the sleepers were attempting to answer? -- My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused.
Arvash Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.11 05:28:00 - [604] Originally by: Myxx could this not be what the sleepers were attempting to answer? I agree. My dilemma is - so what the heck do we do about it? Does someone OD on C3 and get blown up by the mirror or one of the Oruze locations?
Myxx Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.11 05:46:00 - [605] Originally by: Arvash Originally by: Myxx could this not be what the sleepers were attempting to answer? I agree. My dilemma is - so what the heck do we do about it? Does someone OD on C3 and get blown up by the mirror or one of the Oruze locations? someone needs to find a mirror and die near it. possibly repeatedly. -- My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused.
Nathan Jameson	Posted - 2010.09.11 07:45:00 - [606] Originally by: Myxx someone needs to find a mirror and die near it. possibly repeatedly. Way ahead of you there. Check out my posts earlier in this thread.
Ivvor	Posted - 2010.09.11 08:31:00 - [607] Originally by: Myxx someone needs to find a mirror and die near it. possibly repeatedly. Somebody already tried this and nothing happened. It was worth attempting once, but I think trying again would be a waste unless you are really that committed and desperate for any scrap of new information. I've reread the chronicles a number of times and I don't believe the exact location of Burreau's apparent death are that important in terms of a path we can follow. I think she did something prior to her death that we are currently unaware of that may be more significant. I don't think suicide is the answer. An interesting thought that occurred to me recently after reading somebody else's analysis of The Mirror is that the purpose of Burreau's exploits may be to provide another link between the Sleepers and the Sisters of EVE. It is very subtly suggested in the chronicle that Burreau may be/have been or at least worked with the SoE in the past. It is perhaps significant that at the site where she apparently dies, one of the enclaves appears to contain information on what the EVE gate is and how it works. The SoE would be rather interested in that I'd assume. My growing suspicion at this point is that if there are any more major in-game clues to solving the w-space mystery we are missing then they may not actually be in w-space. The SoE, SoCT and rogue drone connections need to be investigated, but I have no idea how to go about this. I ran through the epic arc that relates to interaction between the three groups, but frankly it left me with a lot more questions than answers. The ending of the arc in particular. The rogue drones may be the missing link. Just what is their stake in all this? My fear now is that we are not going to learn much more of real significance other than what is drip fed to us via the occasional cryptic (even if well written and otherwise enjoyable) chronicle or waiting for the next expansion (the return of motherships eh...). I believe it was once said a genius would be required to solve the Sleeper mystery from the clues that remain. I suspect that genius would also be required to be telepathic at this point.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.09.11 12:24:00 - [608] Originally by: Ivvor I ran through the epic arc that relates to interaction between the three groups, but frankly it left me with a lot more questions than answers. The ending of the arc in particular. The rogue drones may be the missing link. Just what is their stake in all this? Has anybody tried locking down sleepers and/or rouge drones and running code breakers/analysers while they are still active. i.e. not destroyed them.
Yaar Podshipnik Gallente Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.09.11 18:07:00 - [609] Edited by: Yaar Podshipnik on 11/09/2010 18:07:14 I thought that looking in DB dump for some clues might be worth a shot. So here I present you some of the stuff I've extracted using a really dumb script ;) Sansha-related texts from "invTypes" table in DB dump Sleeper-related texts from "invTypes" table in DB dump Talocan-related texts from "invTypes" table in DB dump Stuff marked with (*) is not "published", i.e. you can't look it up in-game, so I'm not sure on how canon it is. Also, I haven't read those whole files yet :P
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.12 14:51:00 - [610] Originally by: Yaar Podshipnik I thought that looking in DB dump for some clues might be worth a shot. So here I present you some of the stuff I've extracted using a really dumb script ;) I thought it was interesting that the two subsystems that have Talocan in the description are about shields and signature radius.

Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.09.12 18:59:00 - [611] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 12/09/2010 19:00:47 Hmm, interesting... some of the Talocan items seem to indicate a hybrid Sleeper/Talocan technology being present. Originally by: Talocan Document In some rare cases, the shielding systems on Talocan facilities were constructed using a harmony of Sleeper and Talocan designs. The first successful production of a shield boost amplification node drew heavily upon early study of this particular combination. I had assumed that Sleepers and Talocans were two separate empires, separated by eons. Could the Sleepers have been trying to research/adapt Talocan technology? Another brainstorm: "Tlalocan" is the first level of heaven in Aztec myth. Jove, jovian = jupiter, aka zeus, aka god. Now, taking what we noticed earlier about the Apotheosis shuttle (its structural resemblance to many Sleeper buildings, i.e. the circles and rays)... We can establish a vague 1-2-3 sequential connection between Talocan, Sleeper and Jove. Talocans came first, named after heaven. Sleepers came second, apparently trying to recover Talocan technology; perhaps, recapture something that was lost. Their structures resemble SOCT ships, which we can surmise to be obsolete Jovian designs. SOCT is obviously Jovian in origin... and we have our sequence of events.
Myxx Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.13 07:56:00 - [612] this is purely theoretical, but grounded in something that was hinted to me without any real proof at the time. is there a timeline between the eve gate collapse and the beginning of these ancient civilisations yet? I have a theory that was imparted to me, im not willing to give it up just yet without prior proof to justify it, though. -- My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.09.13 09:37:00 - [613] Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 13/09/2010 09:40:01 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I had assumed that Sleepers and Talocans were two separate empires, separated by eons. Could the Sleepers have been trying to research/adapt Talocan technology? We can establish a vague 1-2-3 sequential connection between Talocan, Sleeper and Jove. Talocans came first, named after heaven. Sleepers came second, apparently trying to recover Talocan technology; perhaps, recapture something that was lost. I've been pretty convinced of the time line (Terran->Talocan->Sleepers->Jove) since I noticed that the Sleeper's group Talocan Technology along with Terran Artefacts in Archive Enclave. I think the outstanding question is where do the Takmahl fit in.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.13 11:50:00 - [614] In game texts, a mission in Deltole and a Plex in Caldari cosmos, it says Yan jung and Talocan were around and perhaps came through the EVE gate. My theory about the Sleepers is that they made an incursion into K-Space at some point in time to try and get a foothold or spread some decease. Leaving ruins when they got kicked back out. They have not had any contact with K-Space until recently. Also I think it is quite pointless to speculate about early Jove society since there is very little data about it. I think they were around to at least observe Yan jung and Talocan from space.
Myxx Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.14 05:17:00 - [615] Theory is that they're all related, and possibly all the same society, reborn over and over again - and what is left of humanity after the gate collapse, they were a portion that didn't decay somehow. possibly. in theory, at least. im trying to find proof of it. -- My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused.
Talmeric Eratirel	Posted - 2010.09.15 01:13:00 - [616] Originally by: Yaar Podshipnik Edited by: Yaar Podshipnik on 11/09/2010 18:07:14 I thought that looking in DB dump for some clues might be worth a shot. So here I present you some of the stuff I've extracted using a really dumb script ;) Sansha-related texts from "invTypes" table in DB dump Sleeper-related texts from "invTypes" table in DB dump Talocan-related texts from "invTypes" table in DB dump Stuff marked with () is not "published", i.e. you can't look it up in-game, so I'm not sure on how canon it is. Also, I haven't read those whole files yet :P Sleepers txt, Large Collidable Structure": Boundless Creations Data Center () This massive complex houses hundreds of supercomputers, all dedicated to research and storage. One such superconductor contains the latest Sleepers research from Boundless Creations. I just wanted to share this.
Roga Dracor	Posted - 2010.09.15 01:31:00 - [617] "I" believe the Jove to be contemporary to the other 3 societies. Perhaps the Jove were the Terran authority of the colonies, possessing the most advanced equipment and thus the best chances at survival. The Talocan were the Tau Cetans, the Yan Jung the megacorp faction and the Takmahl the Unified Catholic Church folks. The common colonists on Pator survived because it was a lush world, no need for life support systems. The Sleepers are the Jovian Stasis People, trying to retain their immortality. The Jove (and their enemy) have been manipulating history and humanity for centuries. Perhaps the Jovian Ambassadors are flesh puppets, created solely to allow the Elders "uploads" to interact with everyone else. Something, my guess is the Takmahl or Jove Modifiers(enhuenaddi?) created a genetic timebomb and somehow slipped the Static Jove a "big" mickey. Forcing them to "upload their society in a bid for survival, with the help of the Talocan and Yan Jung. The Yan Jung are likely the creators of the Isogen 5 superweapon, which I believe is based on shield tech? Something to think about, Jove is the firstborn of the Titans, the "gods" of old, the inheritor of heaven, which he STOLE by force. The Sleeper drones are simply the Jove's drones, lacking the flaws and insanity of the rogue drones. We are the left overs, scratching our way back to civilisation after these factions warred in the distant past. Still being manipulated in a war of attrition between uncertain (to me at least) ideologies.
Roga Dracor	Posted - 2010.09.15 02:13:00 - [618] [quote=Wyke Mossari I can smell another human imprint. I'm about to run into one of my own kind. Or, at least, another capsuleer. I encourage you to peruse the huge stock of fiction CCP draws from, such as one of my personal favs, Dune.. Bene Gesserit statement to Paul when she administers the Gom Jabbar, "Ever sift sand through a screen?" she asked. The tangential slash of her question shocked his mind into a higher awareness: Sand through a screen, he nodded. "We Bene Gesserit sift people to find the humans."
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.15 11:35:00 - [619] Originally by: Roga Dracor Oh and one other thing, everyone seems to be missing the importance of religion and philosophy in this mystery. Good point. I have in a previous post tried to start some discussion into a deeper understanding of what drives the Jove but with little success. Since we are dealing with peoples, Sleepers, Talocan, Jove and others rather than individuals I think it is inescapable to get to understand what motivates them. Speculation is fine and fun but for it to be more than just creations of the mind there needs to be evidence.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.09.15 11:40:00 - [620] Originally by: Myxx im trying to find proof of it. This is good. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space

Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.09.15 13:08:00 - [621] Edited by: Roga Dracor on 15/09/2010 13:15:24 There is plenty of evidence, unfortunately it is primarily circumstantial. And the most "interesting" suspects are hiding in W-Space. The Jove need to enlighten us as to THEIR part in this situation. Their silence speaks volumes, as the saying goes. The little we can garner from the Jovian kitz suggests they have been cataloging and categorizing our society for a LONG time. Yes, I think the enclaves are Jovian. W-Space may actually be the frontier of the elusive Jove Empire. Oh and while I'm at it, the capsuleer community needs to press CONCORD, as well. They have obviously been complicite in much of this.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:38:00 - [622] Originally by: Roga Dracor Their silence speaks volumes, as the saying goes. No it doesnt. Their actions on the other hand do or at least more than silence does. Originally by: Roga Dracor Yes, I think the enclaves are Jovian. W-Space may actually be the frontier of the elusive Jove Empire. No. If the Sleepers were ever part of the Jove as has been suggested and of which there is very little evidence they were a long time ago.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.09.15 20:36:00 - [623] Originally by: Auwnie MoroheNo. If the Sleepers were ever part of the Jove as has been suggested and of which there is very little evidence they were a long time ago.[/quote I beg to differ. No offense, but, there is volumes of circumstancial evidence that they are Jovian. Much of it in the few paragraphs of racial description and more in the few paragraphs of the SoCT, who are definately Jove. I am certain the enclaves in W-Space are of Jovian origin, whether a splinter group, like the SoCT or the entirety of their race. There are residential sections within(Living Areas), there are stasis facilities (Stasis People), quarantine areas(Jovian Disease)and huge database storage sections of diverse topical matter(Jovian motivation\knowledge). I wish game mechanics would allow scanning the structures, but, they don't. So, we can only infer that the structures hulls are impervious to standard scans. Otherwise we might find life signs within. The alloys used to construct the enclaves correspond to Jovian ship design (an obsidian alloy with typical hightech lighting). One of the chronicles implies the Jove are cloaked in wormhole space, if we infer correctly the speakers are Jovian Assemblymen? I strongly disagree about the "evidence" at hand as you see it. There is no doubt in my mind that the Jove had a strong hand in building those constructs.
Pulivin Motic Caldari Outer Limits Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.16 01:49:00 - [624] So I had a small theory. Mayhaps Sanshas nation has some sort of tie with the sleepers (maby it was taken over by the sleepers) and all the people they have been snatching lately has something to do with the sleepers. I dont know just throwing out a random thought I had a bit ago.
Yaar Podshipnik Gallente Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.09.16 10:40:00 - [625] Originally by: Talmeric Eratirel Also, is there is a way to look for talocan / sleepers in mission's briefing with your script ? (and, could you release it with a little explanation on how to modify it in order to find other stuff ?) Nope, you can't look for those mission briefings with my script, or any other script - that data is not in the static dump that CCP gives us. I will gladly share it but to run it you will need: - mysql server with eve db dump - php with mysqli I've tested it only on linux so no idea if it will work on windows. Usage is very simple: on command line type "php db_texts.php "what to look for" > file_to_put_it_in.txt. It will get you all entries from invTable that have the text you put in either in their description on type name. Here's the link: Script Fellow programmer types, don't dis please, I don't do PHP every day :P
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.16 12:36:00 - [626] Roga Dracor : I should have phrased it differently. Probably not. I think, but could be wrong, that most Sleeper site descriptions are very clear that apart from information there is nothing alive there. I do agree the residential areas are very interesting but for other reasons one of them being a certain CCP employee omitting them when discussing Oruze. When one wants to bring a pet into the United Kingdom it is required to be in quarantine for a period of time.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.09.16 13:00:00 - [627] Edited by: Roga Dracor on 16/09/2010 13:04:31 Auwnie Morohe: When one wants to bring a pet into the United Kingdom it is required to be in quarantine for a period of time. Now that is a thought I hadn't entertained, and one I can't find fault with. Thank you for expanding possibilities.. But, I still see Jovian influence.. Another possibility for all that biomass... I think you are probably right that there are no living beings within the structures at this time. But as I said, there could be live remnants of the Jove populace anywhere in W-Space. And my guess is that they can cloak every class of ship they possess. Perhaps even cloak their stations.
Myxx Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.16 16:37:00 - [628] so, im re-reading the empyrean age again. there are a lot more hints with hindsight than i can possibly write out. namely, the last two pages of the story. for those who have it, might be worth re-reading it with what we now know in mind. -- My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.09.16 21:01:00 - [629] I read the scientific article about jump gates yesterday and it said that the EVE gate is called that because it was written on the remnants of it. Making it a point that all letters were capitalized. So anyone want to take a guess on what they stand for. Also there is Point Genesis, the EVE gate and New Eden. Perhaps Adam is mankind and the apple all the riches to be found. But who or what is the snake?
Myxx Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.09.17 05:52:00 - [630] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe I read the scientific article about jump gates yesterday and it said that the EVE gate is called that because it was written on the remnants of it. Making it a point that all letters were capitalized. So anyone want to take a guess on what they stand for. Also there is Point Genesis, the EVE gate and New Eden. Perhaps Adam is mankind and the apple all the riches to be found. But who or what is the snake? The devs have already basically said they want to re-write it at some point, and they agree its largely inaccurate. -- My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused.



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