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CCP: Sleepers instead of the Rogue Drones?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 19 post(s)
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.09.17 11:01:00 - [631] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe I read the scientific article about jump gates yesterday and it said that the EVE gate is called that because it was written on the remnants of it. Making it a point that all letters were capitalized. So anyone want to take a guess on what they stand for? Eternity Vortex Entrance? Wish I had read EA, anyone got a copy I can borrow?
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.09.18 16:20:00 - [632] Damaged Drone Mind ( Agents in Space ) - Parchanier VI - Moon 5 Quote: A rogue drone mind that was once part of a hive. It is severely damaged, but semi-functional. It uses a hologram image interface for communication purposes. For some reason, it depicts a face of a Jovian.
Mal Darkrunner Caldari Zero Tau Research Institute	Posted - 2010.10.17 14:12:00 - [633] After reading this thread and the Jita 4-4 chronicle again last night, a few things are going round in my head (sorry if these have been covered before): At the moment of pod breach a capsuleer becomes, for the briefest moment, a being composed entirely of data - an "infomorph". Sleepers also appear to be virtual beings, composed entirely of data ... infomorphs. Pod pilots are not completely immortal (as they like to believe). They rely on their clones and the "...invisible caretakers..." and "...highly controlled environment..." of the cloning facilities who look after the re-life process. The protagonist of the story is clearly worried about what could happen if this system fails or becomes corrupted, "...what happens when these become not-so-highly controlled environments..." The sleeper drones guarding their sites in W-space may be caretakers of the virtual beings inside sleeper structures. There seems to be a parallel with the people in white coats who act as caretakers of our consciousness data-streams and our clones. There seems to be an implication that there is more to the clone/re-life system than most pod pilots are told, "Most of us still trust in the system, eating the crap served to us without ever really wondering who cooked it up..." It was the Jove who initially gave capsuleers pod technology. However it was not until much later that the clone/infomorph/re-life technology was added - "Initially the hydrostatic capsule, as given to the Caldari by the Jovians roughly 120 years ago, contained no facilities for the clone-body retransplantation of those dying inside it". Once had been integrated, laws were quickly passed to make its use mandatory in all pods. It has been suggested that these may have been pushed through by the same megacorps responsible for the cloning technology - http://www.eveonline.com/background/eggers/egg_03.asp It appears to be possible to intercept and even alter these infomorph streams as they travel through space between the moment of pod destruction and re-awakening in a clone. When Jamyl Sarum died her brain-scan and infomorph transmission systems worked flawlessly, but there was vastly more data (more neural pathways?) received and written into her clone than was transmitted. Could Jamyl Sarum's clone be the vessel for a sleeper mind (possibly with some small part of her original 'self' buried deep inside)? She certainly seems to have been cloned with additional knowledge, for example being able to direct Markus to an exact spot "...in a search grid more than six light years across..." where there were remnants of Terran freighters. "The Jovians crave knowledge, any knowledge at all. Their superior technology has enabled them to infiltrate the other races with bugging devices and sensors, giving them unrivalled access to information, which they use to maintain their strong position among the races." If as has been suggested, the sleepers are Jovians from an earlier epoch, perhaps they too prize information highly? Could the Jovians, the Sleepers or somebody else be evesdropping on or altering infomorph streams transmitted by the pod-deaths of thousands of capsuleers? Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud really.
Arvash Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.17 15:02:00 - [634] Originally by: Mal Darkrunner At the moment of pod breach a capsuleer becomes, for the briefest moment, a being composed entirely of data - an "infomorph". Sleepers also appear to be virtual beings, composed entirely of data ... infomorphs. ... It appears to be possible to intercept and even alter these infomorph streams as they travel through space between the moment of pod destruction and re-awakening in a clone. When Jamyl Sarum died her brain-scan and infomorph transmission systems worked flawlessly, but there was vastly more data (more neural pathways?) received and written into her clone than was transmitted. Could Jamyl Sarum's clone be the vessel for a sleeper mind (possibly with some small part of her original 'self' buried deep inside)? She certainly seems to have been cloned with additional knowledge, for example being able to direct Markus to an exact spot "...in a search grid more than six light years across..." where there were remnants of Terran freighters. ... Could the Jovians, the Sleepers or somebody else be evesdropping on or altering infomorph streams transmitted by the pod-deaths of thousands of capsuleers? I agree with you that Sarum (and Kuvakei) seem linked somehow to the Sleepers and the infomorph concept, as well as wormholes in general and C3 usage. I have been searching the game for proof of this but have not yet found anything conclusive. Take a look at this great analysis also posted today on the topic of cloning mechanics and the author's analysis of how it might work from a mechanics perspective.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.10.17 16:24:00 - [635] Quote: At the moment of pod breach a capsuleer becomes, for the briefest moment, a being composed entirely of data - an "infomorph". How I see it at the moment is not so much that something special happens when we die and get cloned but more the fact that we as pod pilots are already half way infomorphs. Our mind is no longer bound to the physical. Even when we are in our pod 99% of information comes to us via technological means. In theory it is just a small step to upload and download the mind at will. The broker in the Empyrean age shows that that is possible.
Aynen	Posted - 2010.10.17 17:33:00 - [636] Edited by: Aynen on 17/10/2010 17:35:04 spoilers about Burning Life: In the Burning Life Drem talks about how he wants to attack the only weakness that the immortals have, the moment the information from their last clone enters their new one. He wants to take this concept to Sansha's Nation. In Jita 4-4 the protagonist is worried about exactly this weakness. From a storytelling perspective it'd make sense to 'prepare' us for what is to happen by explaining the concept before the event. Most movies do this. (the last good example would be 2012) By now so many hints have been dropped about immortals being influenced during the time that they are digital inbetween clones, it has to be going somewhere. Question is, will it be a weapon used against us, or a means for immortals to become more like the sleepers?
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.11.01 22:42:00 - [637] Perhaps a bit different from what you all are looking at now, I made this little drawing of how the WH space might be formed during the exploration stage of the Sleepers. It's posted as an IC comment over there at IGS.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.11.01 22:53:00 - [638] Originally by: Calathea Sata Edited by: Calathea Sata on 01/11/2010 22:49:15 Perhaps a bit different from what you all are looking at now, I made this little drawing of how the WH space might be formed during the exploration stage of the Sleepers. It's posted as an IC comment over there at IGS. Edit: sorry to have revived this old post, was meant to reply in "Possibly new hidden sleeper info found at sites." but I had too many tabs opened up and I fail at hand eye coordination. "This is a spiral we're in; a long wave undulating in one constant direction without ever crashing on the shore. Listen."
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.11.01 23:13:00 - [639] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu "This is a spiral we're in; a long wave undulating in one constant direction without ever crashing on the shore. Listen." Although I must say it doesn't look like this spiral is meant to be anything literal...
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.11.02 01:55:00 - [640] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat%27s_spiral

Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.11.02 17:34:00 - [641] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat%27s_spiral Too complicated to be anything applicable to the abstract nature of the spiral I proposed; in fact, I think saying it is a simple spiral is already kinda stretching. There wasn't any specific shape to begin with, the proposition of it being a spiral is no more accurate than saying New Eden is a spider web; it's only something it looks like, it isn't anything by itself. So I think this is something not of relevance. Furthermore, the applications of Fermat's spiral is more of a resource distribution method onto a surface, like the formation of flower petals; a simple spiral, like the spiral path of a bee, is much more probable to be relevant, if at all.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.11.03 01:23:00 - [642] It was another lead from W-space that lead me to the Fermats spiral. Sorry about the vagueness but it is big lead that nobody seems to see so probably a dead end. Funnily enough it got strengthened in Jita 4-4 but then again I have a habit of seeing things that arent there.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.11.03 04:06:00 - [643] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe It was another lead from W-space that lead me to the Fermats spiral. Sorry about the vagueness but it is big lead that nobody seems to see so probably a dead end. Funnily enough it got strengthened in Jita 4-4 but then again I have a habit of seeing things that arent there. I saw the same thing.
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.11.03 09:03:00 - [644] Please enlighten me.
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.11.03 12:50:00 - [645] Edited by: Calathea Sata on 03/11/2010 12:52:48 Is this a spiral? I tried playing around in this tool, but it won't create the W-space blob pattern. But I agree that it looks like one. But I don't know what you are talking about in Jita 4-4. edit: there's 30 blobs in W-space.
khazak mokl Amarr Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2010.11.03 13:47:00 - [646] Originally by: Calathea Sata Edited by: Calathea Sata on 03/11/2010 12:52:48 Is this a spiral? I tried playing around in this tool, but it won't create the W-space blob pattern. But I agree that it looks like one. But I don't know what you are talking about in Jita 4-4. edit: there's 30 blobs in W-space. Cud match up to the 30 regions u think? Might match up with the regions destinations a few post back
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.11.03 19:16:00 - [647] Calathea, it was totally unrelated to the star distribution and whether that looks like a spiral which I think is a bit of a stretch. But the fact that I stumbled upon a "spiral" researching something else Sleeper related and it being mentioned in a related chronicle makes it very interesting in itself. That this something else also had a direct link to something very obviously mentioned in Jita 4 4 makes it even more interesting.
Amann Karris Amarr Dragon's Breath Expeditions	Posted - 2010.11.11 14:23:00 - [648] ::Ahem:: If none of you have put the pieces together yet... Quote: Once we were mighty, Stars bent to our will, Our reach was infinite, Our power incontestable, With outstreched hands we tried, To touch the face of perfection, But we came too close, to that which is not due mortals, And our punishment is our curse, Our Endless Sorrow. It may not make sense at first. Did you ever consider that perhaps there was something you were missing? Not seeing the forest for the trees, or perhaps not seeing the "new growth" amid the burnt stumps? Quote: Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in. - Ior Labron. If all the pieces are available, then the answer is there. Quote: The question: What if we just stayed out there and never returned to another clone? What if we could live out there, and build a bright and better world in that space between? A more detailed analysis is inbound, but perhaps before I finish it those of you that are able to do so will put the pieces together more succinctly.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.11.11 17:37:00 - [649] \o/ Someone has figured out the puzzle.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 15:50:00 - [650] Well, apparently this is a deeper mystery than many of us were willing to admit at first. The Jove have apparently "ascended" into the Galactic Network. Their time had come. But, they wished to leave us the tools we needed to defeat the Sansha threat. This is why the statement in the Amarr\Minmatar Elder chronicle. And once again it showed me the true apathy the Jove suffer from. Their main concern was securing the DNA of the Elders, they really didn't care if they were alive or dead. Alive would have been better, but, dead, eh, that works too. The Jove's Endless Sorrow is immortality. They are infomorphs, they have learned how to live "noncorporealy". But, that existence is hollow. The enclaves represents the physical remains of the Jove's research into Anoikis and Metastasis, as well as many other things. I couldn't relegate the disease, because I was being too literal. The "disease" is the manner of their ascension. Cryo this, thermo that. They were making their genome hardier. Turning it into a cancer, that could metastasize into the very fabric of the Universe. "They embarked on a journey of frenzied technological research on the matter, resulting in some very interesting theories and facts on the nature of man and his connection to the universe." on Ior Labron and the SoCT.. The elements of life exist in stars, they are the very source of life. Albeit at extreme temperatures. All the experimentation was into making their genetic structure resilient enough to survive these extremes. And I think this concept is just the beginning to greater revelations.

Amann Karris Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:01:00 - [651] I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself there Roga. First, look at this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1413361 Then, think about how similar it is to the Sleepers. If you're looking for immortality, you don't try to put yourself into something that is going to eventually die. Stars die, they run out of fuel. If you're going to survive for a long, long time, you need to be able to do so with either no fuel or as little fuel as possible. Read this: http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=06-09-10 Pay careful attention to it. Especially the last bit. It may not make sense at first.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:17:00 - [652] Yes, yes, the idea of an infomorph. What "exactly" is an infomorph? The whole Anoikis was a subtle misdirect from Metastasis. Cells are not the only thing that can metastasize, the ability is inherent in Neoplasms, as well. Now take into account the strange illegal commodity Ectoplasm. I may be off on a point or two, but, come on, as you said, wikipedia is your friend..
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:21:00 - [653] And the ability to migrate to new stars, disputes your ideas about energy. When a star dies off, you have eternal mechanized servants to help you move to a New AO star. Which in the larger scope allows you to survive as long as the universe does.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:34:00 - [654] Everyone, please re-read Ior Labron's Poem. Think about every line. They went searching for God, only to find that God eluded them. They were infinite, possessing the power to bind stars. They still sought something more. And still do. They are the Seeker and they know nothing but the search. It is what they have become. They still exist, and they will for eternity. Looking for a God that refuses to be quantified.
Amann Karris Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:50:00 - [655] Originally by: Roga Dracor Yes, yes, the idea of an infomorph. What "exactly" is an infomorph? The whole Anoikis was a subtle misdirect from Metastasis. Cells are not the only thing that can metastasize, the ability is inherent in Neoplasms, as well. Now take into account the strange illegal commodity Ectoplasm. I may be off on a point or two, but, come on, as you said, wikipedia is your friend.. Originally by: C3-FTM ACID Difficult to procure and expensive to create, this rare chemical compound plays an important role as a neuroprotective agent for capsule pilots. It is integrated into the life-support systems on board a capsuleerÆs vessel, where it helps limit brain cell death and neurodegeneration. Originally by: The Mirror ôResearch Enclave û Virtual Genetics: Directory 1.0 Neurodegenerative Case Studies 2.0 Non-natural Teleology 3.0-4.7 Test Clinics 4.8 Bioinformatics Archive 4.9 Virtual Mutation 5.0-9.8 Emergent Systems Designö http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/C3-FTM_Acid_Reaction "Man cannot survive on Wiki alone." Anoikis, cell death. A specific type of cell death. Quote: Anchorage-Dependant Cell: A cell that grows, survives, or maintains function only when attached to an inert surface, such as glass or plastic. Anoikis only happens to Anchorage-Dependent Cells. Quote: Usually cells stay close to the tissue to which they belong since the communication between proximal cells as well as between cells and ECM provide essential signals for growth or survival. Sleeper sites emit signals. Sleeper drones communicate in a proprietary language. Quote: When cells are detached from the ECM, i.e. there is a loss of normal cell-matrix interactions, they may undergo anoikis. However, metastatic tumor cells may escape from anoikis and invade other organs. Tech 3 anyone? Or, more importantly: Quote: Data Library: 11,799,985 Neural Network Analyzer: 1,162,057 Coordinates Database: 244,234 Drone AI Nexus: 70,726 Have fun.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:05:00 - [656] Edited by: Roga Dracor on 12/11/2010 17:17:17 Actually, sorry it is Gorda Hoje that is the author and founder of the SoCT. Your argument supports my case. The key is, they AVOIDED anoikis. They metastasized the brain cell and somehow bound it to the electromagnetic and chemical makeup of the stars. Anoikis is, in the simplest terms, the natural aging of cells. When cells metastasize, they become immortal. Cancer can grow in dead material as well as living. Take the thinking one step further. Perhaps, with the proper manipulation at a genetic level, functional brain cells could be grown in a vat, independant of the living system that normally supports it. In a bottle of goo. In an absolute zero environment, or one that is 14000 degrees farenheit. These brain cells could theoretically bond with any "organic" material, which stars are notorious for spewing copious amounts of. Take into account that one of the relevent qualities of an AO sun is it is high in Hydrogen and Calcium.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:22:00 - [657] Now, if you needed biomass to create enough ectoplasm to "upload" a race, how would you get it? You might make a deal with Sansha. And then, feeling slightly guilty about it, you might level the playing field by introducing tech to those you betrayed.
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:33:00 - [658] Edited by: Roga Dracor on 12/11/2010 17:33:42 Further Brain Cells are... Here is your link to the product harvested in wormhole space that support the theory.. SOD3 What is it? CFM3 in Eve?
Roga Dracor Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:39:00 - [659] And finally, clone degradation has been shown to be a dead end for Cloning for immortality, Uploading created a Rogue AI, that pushed them back to genetics and "evolving" an immortal human.
Amann Karris Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.12 18:07:00 - [660] Originally by: Roga Dracor Actually, sorry it is Gorda Hoje that is the author and founder of the SoCT. Your argument supports my case. The key is, they AVOIDED anoikis. They metastasized the brain cell and somehow bound it to the electromagnetic and chemical makeup of the stars. I quite heartily disagree. http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=feb03 First sentence. SoCT was founded by Ior Labron. Quote: Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in. - Ior Labron. Hmm. Quote: Data Library: 11,799,985 Neural Network Analyzer: 1,162,057 Coordinates Database: 244,234 Drone AI Nexus: 70,726 Hmmmm. Quote: Now, if you needed biomass to create enough ectoplasm to "upload" a race, how would you get it? You might make a deal with Sansha. And then, feeling slightly guilty about it, you might level the playing field by introducing tech to those you betrayed. You don't need ectoplasm to upload a consciousness. Ectoplasm is used as the base for the "pod goo" that is in every pod. It helps feed nutrients to the body. Quote: Further Brain Cells are... Here is your link to the product harvested in wormhole space that support the theory.. SOD3 What is it? CFM3 in Eve? Nope. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/C3-FTM_Acid_Reaction http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/C3-FTM_Acid Sometimes, Wiki leads us astray. Quote: And finally, clone degradation has been shown to be a dead end for Cloning for immortality, Uploading created a Rogue AI, that pushed them back to genetics and "evolving" an immortal human. The Empires seem to know the Jove are gone, and are scrambling to coallate as much of their knowledge as possible before the other Empires beat them to it. Different type of degeneration. Neural. As in, brain cells dying.



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