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Dear CCP, are you seriously launching Tyrannis next week ?

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Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:18:00 - [1] I find it hard to believe you can pull off a "fix" of PI in just one month, let alone one single week. Every time I managed to test it on SiSi, while looking graphically better, gameplay/UI wise it just kept getting from bad to ever so slightly less bad but weird and then to worse, and I don't have to begin to mention my thoughts with regard to your initial economic balancing (at least that requires the least changes, and seems to have been changed most often). If you think you can pull it off by May 18th, then let me offer my condolences to the player base that thinks about PI (or worse, to everybody using POSes if you also decide to cut NPC orders out) in advance, since it will be one of the most nerve-wracking expansions to date. Please consider pushing back Tyrannis for a month (or two) the very least, or maybe even NOT implementing PI with Tyrannis (although how could you do that since that's the only actual new feature). _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:28:00 - [2] Pffà blow a GTC or four per tower on buying NPC pos fuel while it lasts, and stack up for a year. àcome to think of it, that sounds like an excellent money-maker for CCP. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:34:00 - [3] hi akita t cat here now i know you are very brainy and such lol but have you considered that ccp has more datas and also more peoples to look at stuff and so maybe you are just fearmongering? x Vote Cat for free ISK! My Facebook!
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:39:00 - [4] Well, I dont know about you, but I am looking forward to the coming expansion and what it has to offer. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi akita t cat here now i know you are very brainy and such lol but have you considered that ccp has more datas and also more peoples to look at stuff and so maybe you are just fearmongering? x If this were true then how come they can't do their own QA/QC ?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:46:00 - [6] Edited by: Akita T on 12/05/2010 08:47:00 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails have you considered that ccp has more datas and also more peoples to look at stuff and so maybe you are just fearmongering? Have you considered that they will launch a heavily-pre-nerfed-into-uselessness just because they hit their deadline with nowhere near enough people allocated for that particular task, as per Hofstadter's law ? There is no question about this part... PI just isn't in a good state right now, and it would take more than a series of miracles to make it good enough in one week's time. The only question is, SHOULD CCP (or can CCP afford to) delay the expansion until PI is "good enough" ? Or do they plan to release it "as is", but keep some safeguards in place ? You know, safeguards like, say, NOT remove (nor change) any NPC sell orders yet, that will basically render PI usueless until buffed (so, technically there, but just for show, so it doesn't really matter how much of a mess it is UI-wise). _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Akita T or maybe even NOT implementing PI with Tyrannis (although how could you do that since that's the only actual new feature). or better yet, Dont launch it at all. Im serious. I have a mental image of you guys caving in and jacking things up at the last minuet because you realise that unless you make the output seriously extream noones going to screw with it past the first basic processor (honsestly, making 20 units of 02 per processor at max. . . I dont think I can stop myself from yawning!) here is the reality. The products of this are. . . . not even remotly thrilling for the most part. Vs mining - production where you can at least build weapons, ammo and spaceship, we get tobuild. . . bottles of air, randomly named subcomonents, pos fuel. . (big mistake that was, NPC Pos fuel, the stuff you pick up in bulk lots from the EvE version of freaking Cosco)( to be blunt, given that the other pos fuel is ice, so you probably were inspired by the sheer tedius bordom of that when you came up with all of this) oh and towers guns and sov crap that peopele tend to stick in the ground someplace and pray to god that they will be able to ignore for weeks on end apart from refueling ----- Belive it or not I want this to succeed, dont belive me? take a look at my signature and follow the link heres my thoughts, First, Figure out something, ANYTHING that can be made with this that is not an NPC suplied item currently that people dont just throw into the back of a hanger someplace untill they need it to refuel or to replace a pos or sov structure, Bascialy something that the player base will actualy Freaking WANT to and WILL use this on a more or less daily basis. Honestly making mutant livestock and planetary vehicls that we combine to make Pigs in space/voltron is not cutting it. Second, Actualy play some resource managment games for crying out loud. The Settlers, or Civ. or Ceaser, or any other game of that type. HELL RIP THEM OFF! it would be a 1000% improvment on what you have here. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.05.12 08:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T Every time I managed to test it on SiSi, while looking graphically better, gameplay/UI wise it just kept getting from bad to ever so slightly less bad but weird and then to worse, No details here so its impossible to agree. What's your definition of worse? Originally by: Akita T and I don't have to begin to mention my thoughts with regard to your initial economic balancing And you dont; so again we're all rather at a loss to understand your point. Annnnd.....that it. So essentially you think CCP should put back an expansion because...well why? And why not include your concerns from the test server on that forum page? I think your trying to spin out a drama that doesn't exist. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Akita T Every time I managed to test it on SiSi, while looking graphically better, gameplay/UI wise it just kept getting from bad to ever so slightly less bad but weird and then to worse, No details here so its impossible to agree. What's your definition of worse? Read the link Steve Thomas posted. Read the feedback on the test server subforum. Try it yourself when SiSi comes back online. You really can't miss it. Quote: Originally by: Akita T and I don't have to begin to mention my thoughts with regard to your initial economic balancing And you dont; so again we're all rather at a loss to understand your point. My thoughts on it is that CCP almost always seems to go for the "patchwork" effect, a balancing act with piece of chalk marks and hammer hits pushing everything from one extreme to another constantly with each change instead of using a micrometer and precision tools to do it almost completely right from the first try with only minute adjustments later, for almost everything related to the game economy. Quote: Annnnd.....that it. So essentially you think CCP should put back an expansion because...well why? And why not include your concerns from the test server on that forum page? Because it would take several pages to express it all in the detail you seem to want to demand, and because it's already been said by others so many times it hurts. It's a poorly balanced clickfest, it's an UI nightmare (like most of EVE's UI), it's a thing that needs something beyond scathing words to properly describe my opinions of it right now. Long story short : it takes way too much work for way too little reward given the current NPC prices, so you have two possible outcomes - either people won't generally bother with PI at all (except for the occasional masochist or curious person) if NPC orders remain in place, or all prices will explode when NPC orders get removed causing radical (and unlikely to be beneficial) changes all across EVE. That's just the PI part of Tyrannis, mind you. The only real new feature. All the other stuff in it is pretty decent, but none of it can really be called a new feature. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Poo Ka'hontas Red Eye Brigade Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:05:00 - [10] I find it hard to take you serious here Akita I know (from previous posting) you are good with economics and such.. But how can you possible know how the FINISHED product will be..? Yes they are testing it on sisi, but it is NOT the finished product.. Hence the neame test-server. You look more like a doomsdaypriest than a a person i wish to take serious. So, unless you work for CCP and know everything about Tyranis..i realy wish you would stop making false acusations about CCP and the expansion. If Tyranis horribly fails after launch, THEN you can have a go ______________________________________________ My sig is on strike due to lack of attention!
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Akita T Every time I managed to test it on SiSi, while looking graphically better, gameplay/UI wise it just kept getting from bad to ever so slightly less bad but weird and then to worse, No details here so its impossible to agree. What's your definition of worse? Originally by: Akita T and I don't have to begin to mention my thoughts with regard to your initial economic balancing And you dont; so again we're all rather at a loss to understand your point. Annnnd.....that it. So essentially you think CCP should put back an expansion because...well why? And why not include your concerns from the test server on that forum page? I think your trying to spin out a drama that doesn't exist. C. well for starters they added more stupid messages to tell you to sit there and try again. . . because you have to hit the hidden cycle behind the seens just right in order to turn on your extractors or submit any orders. oh and if you put down a path from a extractor to a processor, and set said processor to max pull on a decent world, you bascialy have to "upgrade" (at a cost to power and CPU) the rout (meaning you have less power and CPU) and in order to save power and CPU you have to build storage siloes and processors all over the map. . . but if you go with a 5 hour cycel your better off because you probably will not need to upgrade a single rout or in many cases spam the map with lots of redunant siloes thus freeing up more cpu and power to slap down more Extractors thus bringing your yeild up. never mind the fact that if you want to hit all of the resources on a given planet currently your best bet is to build isolated outposts consisting of 2 extractors, 1 silo 1 processor with just one temporary link that you move between outposts (especialy on Gas giant planets) oh its simple, they doubled production per extracted resource, the only smart move they did was to change the tax rate to the volume. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Poo Ka'hontas But how can you possible know how the FINISHED product will be..? I don't know how the FINISHED product will be... my point is that it's nowhere near finished now, one week before launch day. Sure, PI might turn out to be a great thing... by late August or early December 2010, IF they keep working on it after launch... but not by May 18. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Poo Ka'hontas But how can you possible know how the FINISHED product will be..? they have one week to pull it off. suposedly all they are doing now is swaping out the placehoders and tweeking the values. and right now, to be totaly blunt. PI is not looking so hot. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Poo Ka'hontas Red Eye Brigade Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Akita T Sure, PI might turn out to be a great thing... by late August or early December 2010, IF they keep working on it after launch... but not by May 18. Well.. i do not bet against you on that prediction But yet again i find it a bit hard to see how any of us (none-CCP-people) can now what they will release on the 18th. Yes we have seen bit's and pieces of it on sisi, but i find it hard to believe that they implemented the "whole" patch there. So if we are only seing things that needed to be tested by us players, we would not have the whole picture. And without a whole picture, there can be essential elements missing that combined would make a lot more sence and make the total package work. But as earlier stated... You have a lot more experience and time put into EVE than me.. So i guees youre thoughts on this could very well end up being the truth.. ______________________________________________ My sig is on strike due to lack of attention!
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:25:00 - [15] What is on SiSi right before an expansion is virtually identical to what goes live on TQ right after an expansion, most of the time. They don't make any significant changes in between, last-day stuff is mostly cosmetic. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:27:00 - [16] Edited by: Cailais on 12/05/2010 09:27:13 You're still being too vague, and whilst I understand your reluctance to go over ground that has been covered elsewhere I can't help but get the feeling your proclaiming 'doom and gloom' here in GD to rile the masses. We already know that PI is coming with an iterative development team attached which I think is CCP recognising that PI is not a fully 'finished' product. If we did ask CCP to wait until it was at a more mature state we would be waiting until all the interactions with DUST514 were also in place. That would mean a very long wait, and potentially even more inherent problems. PI really doesn't need to be all singing and all dancing now (or even all that relevant), it just needs to be in place before DUST514 is rolled out. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:29:00 - [17] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 12/05/2010 09:36:42 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi akita t cat here now i know you are very brainy and such lol but have you considered that ccp has more datas and also more peoples to look at stuff and so maybe you are just fearmongering? x Im reminded of the Joke about WoWs Burning Crusade expansion. for weeks before hand Illidan Stormrage was part of a vidio teaser saying "you are not prepaired." he bascicaly was taken out what? 6 weeks into the expansion on the first try. Right now Im stuck with one of two conclusions, 1) they take out all npc items made by PI, prices skyrocket in part because its such a freaking timesink for even the folks who hold sov in 0-0 to do, (and seriously, whats the ISK income in 0-0 like anyway for someone who has the highvalue moons and access to ABC? and 0-0 rats?) 2) they bascialy leave npc goods in, wich makes it kind of pointless to even do in the firs place. the problem is if they try to do anything in the middle they end up shooting themselves in the foot with this, but I suspect thats what they have in mind. the only hope this has currently is that they flat out lied about the endproducts and it ends up being something that someone somewhere wants to be have built. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 12/05/2010 09:27:13 PI really doesn't need to be all singing and all dancing now (or even all that relevant), it just needs to be in place before DUST514 is rolled out. C. Not just in place before Dust514 is rolled out it needs to be in place and proven to be something worth the player base in 0-0 and low sec bothering with in the first place, and not sadled with bagage that Boosters currently have (to mutch hastle to be worth the bother) Right now nothing in PI actualy needs to be build in low sec. it can all be done(if slightly less efficently) in empire. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:36:00 - [19] I have no hopes for for any expansion and so I'm never disappointed. People should stop raising their expectations too high and believing all the hype. In video games I only ever believe something when I see it. I do know the economics are going to be highly volatile though which will be fun. Until CCP introduce a lot more ways to bring ISK into the economy, crack down on bots and introduce a lot more mineral sinks PI will do little anyway.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:39:00 - [20] How do you not know how this works by now? In every expansion it feels rushed and major features don't have all of the stuff they promised us in the beginning. It takes at least a few fixes and tweaks on TQ in order for CCP to get it playable. Don't judge it on Sisi either, every new feature sucks on sisi. According to the people on sisi, no one was ever going to fly a t3 ship, go into a wormhole and fight sleepers or enlist in factional warfare. You have to wait for Tyrannis to launch onto TQ, then you can say how much it owns/sucks. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:43:00 - [21] next week? im scared ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Vaal Erit How do you not know how this works by now? In every expansion it feels rushed and major features don't have all of the stuff they promised us in the beginning. It takes at least a few fixes and tweaks on TQ in order for CCP to get it playable. Don't judge it on Sisi either, every new feature sucks on sisi. According to the people on sisi, no one was ever going to fly a t3 ship, go into a wormhole and fight sleepers or enlist in factional warfare. You have to wait for Tyrannis to launch onto TQ, then you can say how much it owns/sucks. Actualy my argument then was more along the lines that they eventualy ended up taking, they needed to overhaul output levels and volumes because at the time it was fracking insain, and that scanning was a bit clunky. as for FW my only concern was would insurance be enough to offset costs for new players. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Akita T Dear CCP, are you seriously launching Tyrannis next week ? Yes. /thread VOTE CAT ELYSIUM VOTES CAT
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Steve Thomas Second, Actualy play some resource managment games for crying out loud. The Settlers, or Civ. or Ceaser, or any other game of that type. HELL RIP THEM OFF! it would be a 1000% improvment on what you have here. Bolded and yellowed for x1000 emphasis. Just like when they invented their own wheel by doing IGB and then reverted to offtheshelf Awesonium/Chromium for Moondoggie. Result? Hundreds of times better than the old IGB, even with its faults.
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.05.12 10:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Steve Thomas Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 12/05/2010 09:27:13 PI really doesn't need to be all singing and all dancing now (or even all that relevant), it just needs to be in place before DUST514 is rolled out. C. Not just in place before Dust514 is rolled out it needs to be in place and proven to be something worth the player base in 0-0 and low sec bothering with in the first place, and not sadled with bagage that Boosters currently have (to mutch hastle to be worth the bother) Right now nothing in PI actualy needs to be build in low sec. it can all be done(if slightly less efficently) in empire. I don't see there's that much urgency. If CCP want PI to be relevant by the time DUST 514 comes out they can adjust the value of it as an activity just before hand. I imagine that's what CCP have planned - a limited release of a diverting but not critical feature for resource gathering. Once DUST 514 reaches its launch date CCP simply crank up the rewards generated by PI so those are worth fighting over. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 10:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Vaal Erit How do you not know how this works by now? In every expansion it feels rushed and major features don't have all of the stuff they promised us in the beginning. It takes at least a few fixes and tweaks on TQ in order for CCP to get it playable. It was only economic tweaks that needed to be done for T3... and it took them two big separate adjustments (drop rates and RE results) to get them even in the same ballpark with their initial expressed wishes... the economic tweaks might still work for PI in some degree, sure, but it's a lot of things that need to be tweaked, far more than needed to be tweaked for T3. And there's also the UI issue in PI... ouch. It's like you really need to "play a minigame" (a boring, tedious, no-brains, clickfest of a minigame) just to accomplish the most basic of tasks ("extract stuff from here, process into something else there")... even moon mining and moon reacting is less tedious than that, and we know how well-liked that one is, don't we ? It's like they took the worst parts from POS management for reactions and regular mining, then combined them into a single exasperating feature. Let's talk about the hidden timers. Let's talk about the many redundant clicks. Let's talk about the enforced delays and lack of visual deedback. Let's also talk about the way materials on planets are distributed, and the difficulties hey had (and still have) to make that work in any meaningful way whenever multiple people operate on the same planet. Or better yet, let's not. PI is barely passed alpha stage, I wouldn't even call it a beta, let alone a release candidate. But we're getting it in a week. AND AFTER WE GET IT, THE UI/MECHANICS WILL TAKE AGES TO CHANGE, IF EVER. Yup, I know how this works... that's why I'm so upset. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe	Posted - 2010.05.12 10:10:00 - [27] - Does PI break EvE or the Economy : No, as long as NPC orders remain impact is about zero. - Does PI rock my world ? : No, tbh it's pretty unimpressive and an epic clickfest. - Will PI be profitable ? : Based on latest numbers on Sisi, no, not at all. - Is it something to do while waiting for a fleet to assemble ? : Yes. - Is it sad that Tyrannis has so little interesting content ? : Yes. Verdict : Release, if only so we'll get a new teaser + trailer for the next expansion Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
Aera Aiana Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.12 10:12:00 - [28] I always wondered why they are using a fixed release cycle for EVE. It's not like they had to meet some publishers deadline (with the exception of the Apocrypha content patch). Imo the fixed schedule is a huge contributor to the unfinishedness that is EVE today. -
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.12 10:17:00 - [29] Edited by: Akita T on 12/05/2010 10:18:34 Originally by: Louis deGuerre - Does PI break EvE or the Economy : No, as long as NPC orders remain impact is about zero. Problem is, they haven't stated they're going to leave the NPC orders in place, and on SiSi, they were NOT in place anymore. Sure, they can reconsider and leave them in, but my gut fears they will do the worst possible thing and yank them out altogether. Why ? Because that's the worst thing they could possibly do right now, but also what "Doc.E.G." would recommend. Quote: - Does PI rock my world ? : No, tbh it's pretty unimpressive and an epic clickfest. - Will PI be profitable ? : Based on latest numbers on Sisi, no, not at all. Pretty much. Quote: - Is it something to do while waiting for a fleet to assemble ? : Yes. I somewhat doubt that, but you never know. Quote: - Is it sad that Tyrannis has so little interesting content ? : Yes. I wouldn't bat an eyelash if even this little additional content would be removed until ready... Quote: Verdict : Release, if only so we'll get a new teaser + trailer for the next expansion Well, if they leave the NPC orders alone, up and running, sure, release, by all means. Originally by: Aera Aiana I always wondered why they are using a fixed release cycle for EVE. It's not like they had to meet some publishers deadline (with the exception of the Apocrypha content patch). Imo the fixed schedule is a huge contributor to the unfinishedness that is EVE today. They're shooting themselves in the foot (repeatedly) for PR reasons, even if a big part of the PR campaign is dedicated to showing the world they're never shooting themselves in the foot. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.12 10:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Akita T I find it hard to believe you can pull off a "fix" of PI in just one month, let alone one single week. Every time I managed to test it on SiSi, while looking graphically better, gameplay/UI wise it just kept getting from bad to ever so slightly less bad but weird and then to worse, and I don't have to begin to mention my thoughts with regard to your initial economic balancing (at least that requires the least changes, and seems to have been changed most often). If you think you can pull it off by May 18th, then let me offer my condolences to the player base that thinks about PI (or worse, to everybody using POSes if you also decide to cut NPC orders out) in advance, since it will be one of the most nerve-wracking expansions to date. Please consider pushing back Tyrannis for a month (or two) the very least, or maybe even NOT implementing PI with Tyrannis (although how could you do that since that's the only actual new feature). Not so sure about you, but I think most people would be kinda annoyed if Tyrannis is suddenly pushed back, considering the page is already live - stating a release date. Also not sure about you, but PI is just another thing to master... you don't seem to like it so much. ________________________ Apply \| Achievements

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