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Dear CCP, are you seriously launching Tyrannis next week ?

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Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.05.14 00:34:00 - [121] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 14/05/2010 01:05:37 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Camios First, NPC market is not going to be unseeded since day one. There will be a transition period. Source? CCP Interview About The Tyrannis Expansion For EVE Online - Page 2 Originally by: TTH Interview with Torfi TTH: There's been some talk on the forums about planetary interaction replacing NPC-seeded products on the market. The materials like skillbooks and so forth that players aren't producing, but that show up on the market anyway. Can you quash those rumors? Torfi: No, I can't. Because that's what we really want to do. But we are probably not going to change all that overnight. One of our goals with planetary interaction is to phase out these NPC created commodities, because we want to put the power into the hands of the players and make EVE even more sandbox-y than it is. Whatever that means.. Personally I would prefer a hard cut - let the sell orders for pos fuel run out, cut every other npc sell/buy order right there. See how it goes. Adjust in 1 week steps if you see problems arise. <-- not that BS we had with T3, where it took the playerbase 2 weeks on Sisi to get a clue that the bottlenecks where 3-4 sleeper salvage parts and 2 months after release some of them get nerfed into oblivion and the main problem of unwanted and wasted subsystem BPCs persists till today. Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Camios Second, PI user interface is not bad at all, of course you have to work with it. It's a clickfest û no ifs, not buts û and thus bad. A good UI is not one you "have to work with", and we certainly know that CCP aren't going to fix or improve it once it goes live. You really don't want to imply that some similar passive stuff isn't a clickfest, do you? Any reaction POS requires you to get there on a regular basis (after an anchoring and onlining marathon) to 'interact' with the tower, the silos and possibly reactors. With PI you can have at MAX around 22 extractors per planet on 6 planets all churning away on a 1 or 4 day schedule (who in their right might uses a 30min or 5 hour cycle for anything but getting the thing started anyways? Got no real life? LOL). Realistically you won't export the raw materials, so you need to run basic processors to get the volume down and you end up with 3-5 less extractors per planet or roughly 3-4 extractors per basic processor. Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Camios right now you need 132 structures at least to produce continuously a component for POS production àaka clickfest. Once the thing is set up and running (after 2 hours for the experienced sisi fanatic or 1-2 days for the pi noob) the initial clickfest is over. Rescan the extractors every 4 days, import/export stuff if needed (if you need transfer on planet you got a bad planning or want more than passive income - and thus should need more time to do it) and that's it. Did you really think this is intended to be rebuild every other week? Who does this with his POS? Or manufacturing chain? It won't be uber income for sure (especially not for boys and girls who are used to 50-100M income per hour gametime), cause if it would ccp screwed up badly. But clickfest? Na.. Ice miners click more around to get to the cake.
Yahweh Graf	Posted - 2010.05.14 01:16:00 - [122] Edited by: Yahweh Graf on 14/05/2010 01:16:33 posting in a thread about how akita will take over eve whenever ccp can get pi right. you know damn well you'll have all your indy alts training that crap regardless of how kool it looks or user friendly it is. I myself only checked it out once on sisi. don't know the skills or prereq. hope it's a good amount so an unskilled noob wouldn't be able to jump right into it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.14 01:52:00 - [123] Originally by: Tres Farmer CCP Interview About The Tyrannis Expansion For EVE Online - Page 2 Thank you! Still, like you say and the way I read that, some things will be removed from the NPC market form the get-go ù we just don't know which ones yet. Quote: You really don't want to imply that some similar passive stuff isn't a clickfest, do you? Any reaction POS requires you to get there on a regular basis (after an anchoring and onlining marathon) to 'interact' with the tower, the silos and possibly reactors. Sure, there are tons of other clickathons out there, but that's no reason to let PI fall into the same trap. Even such a basic thing as putting down all the pins you want: click category, click type, click site, click type, click site, click type, click site, click filter, click scan, click category [etc], click apply, click site, click tab, click action, click engage, click tab, click action, click engage [repeat for all installations]à What would have been so wrong with a simple: Select type (click), Select sites (plural û clickclicklclickà oops, not that one, click again to undo), Apply? Or having the heatmaps be tied to what kind of extractor you're placing? Or collecting more of the workflow onto a single tab? There are so many shortcuts they could have made, but where they have instead chosen solutions that are very obviously sponsored by RSI'r'usÖ for absolutely no good reason. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.05.14 01:54:00 - [124] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 14/05/2010 01:58:04 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Camios First, NPC market is not going to be unseeded since day one. There will be a transition period. Source? to second his source with an alternate and more recent one: Originally by: CCP Chronotis They will remain in place for several weeks after launch whilst we give PI time to take over and iron out any major issues if any crop up. _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.05.14 02:43:00 - [125] Originally by: Tippia Quote: You really don't want to imply that some similar passive stuff isn't a clickfest, do you? Any reaction POS requires you to get there on a regular basis (after an anchoring and onlining marathon) to 'interact' with the tower, the silos and possibly reactors. Sure, there are tons of other clickathons out there, but that's no reason to let PI fall into the same trap. Even such a basic thing as putting down all the pins you want: click category, click type, click site, click type, click site, click type, click site, click filter, click scan, click category [etc], click apply, click site, click tab, click action, click engage, click tab, click action, click engage [repeat for all installations]à You exagerate.. It's easier than that (clicks from initial entering of pi view mode).. Scan for deposit(s) - 2 clicks (+fiddling around with colorbar and spinning planet to get the hotspot minigame) Place a CC - 3 clicks + 'SUBMIT' Place a structure - 3 clicks Create a link - 2 clicks + using [CTRL] Initiate extraction - 2 doubleclicks Initiate route right after - another doubleclick Choose schematic - doubleclick + 'INSTALL' Initiate route right after - another doubleclick Repetitive tasks of all of this?.. Initiate extraction - 2 doubleclicks (per extractor at the moment) Anything else, once set up initially, is a one time event. Oh yeah forgot.. the occasional import/export event. But once the stuff enters the right storage the PROCs will happily start churning away as the routes/links/schematics are all set and just waiting for processing input. Originally by: Tippia What would have been so wrong with a simple: Select type (click), Select sites (plural û clickclicklclickà oops, not that one, click again to undo), Apply? Or having the heatmaps be tied to what kind of extractor you're placing? Or collecting more of the workflow onto a single tab? There are so many shortcuts they could have made, but where they have instead chosen solutions that are very obviously sponsored by RSI'r'usÖ for absolutely no good reason. I would vote for some 'global rescan with all extractors idle at the moment' and a global 'take last cycle time for each of them' approach.. But that in mind and considering running 5 planets with ACC's and a basic network you look at 15x5 doubleclicks every 4 days and some im/exportswhere I see fit. Would bring those 75 doubleclicks down to maybe 5-10? Don't know.. need to see the live numbers first.
ZiggyXX Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.14 04:07:00 - [126] Edited by: ZiggyXX on 14/05/2010 04:10:38 This is out May 18 eh? Well one good thing about that is--If it doesn't work out and it's all buggy, you can alway's play Red Dead Redemtion! If you have a PS3 or XBox 360 that is. "In Rust We Trust"
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.14 06:46:00 - [127] I've been playing with PI on SiSi almost daily since it became available. What PI means to me (with the current numbers): * Never having to buy Oxygen. * Having to buy less of other commodities for POS fuel. Really, I just can't be bothered to produce anything other than POS fuel (I live in w-space). I also don't expect I will be active enough in PI to meet my POS fuel needs either (even with my 4 accounts), so I'll still have to buy stuff for fuel, just less of it. So I setup a planet. A few hundred clicks and a day later, a scan reveals a complete absence of goop to extract around my extractors. A big bald spot on the planet. So now I have to setup all over again! Manufacturing items that require more than 3 processors, or multiple planets? No thanks! Just because I don't want to futz with it constantly doesn't mean I don't want some sort of constant feedback of progress. Some sort of UI with statistics would have been nice. Deep scanning the markets and contracts for deals is far more lucrative and exciting for me, and I don't even want to do that all the time.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.14 07:04:00 - [128] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Camios First, NPC market is not going to be unseeded since day one. There will be a transition period. Source? to second his source with an alternate and more recent one Ah, but be careful of what is asked... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Are the NPC generated buy orders for certain consumer/industrial goods staying in place?[...] They will remain in place for several weeks after launch whilst we give PI time to take over and iron out any major issues if any crop up. We assume the sell orders will "suffer" the same fate (as in, stick around for a while), but we don't know for sure... and anyway, he mentions "major issues" (as in, bugs, not as in "too expensive" or "too boring"), so for all we know, even if they'll stay in place a few weeks, that's just a good excuse to buy up everything you might need and make a killing re-trading it later... while PI remains barely used thanks to the low reward/effort ratio. Oh well, bring on the crapstorm, it's not like we're not used to it. Might as well just make a killing in trade, rendering PI even less useful in the process. Hooray for CCP _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.05.14 07:14:00 - [129] Where's the right click make isk at? Please make it not soo hard to do this kool stuff you're patching us up with soon. -- "One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic."
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.05.14 08:07:00 - [130] Originally by: Tau Cabalander I've been playing with PI on SiSi almost daily since it became available. [...] I live in w-space [...] So I setup a planet. A few hundred clicks and a day later, a scan reveals a complete absence of goop to extract around my extractors. A big bald spot on the planet. So now I have to setup all over again! ... Sorry, but that doesn't compute. Haven't seen something like that break down on me.. same rates every day and all extractors on 24 hour cycles: http://img101.imageshack.us/i/pitightpackage.jpg So if you tell me, that you actually managed to dry up a 78% abundancy hotspot on a w-space planet I just can't believe it.
Galleter	Posted - 2010.05.14 09:25:00 - [131] Edited by: Galleter on 14/05/2010 09:32:43 Edited by: Galleter on 14/05/2010 09:28:14 Edited by: Galleter on 14/05/2010 09:27:11 Expansion will be good, because rich people afraid of it. you should pay more because you have to much - CCP should wipe out all stock of pos fuel because of speculation this is a real problem - PI is great on sisi.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.05.14 09:48:00 - [132] Originally by: Galleter CCP should wipe out all stock of pos fuel because of speculation Yes. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
Graysson Grumpy Panda Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.14 11:14:00 - [133] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Galleter CCP should wipe out all stock of pos fuel because of speculation Yes. Exactly. I'd be overjoyed to see every single NPC "sell" order for POS fuels disappear right now -- my ginormous stockpiles will be worth much, much more. Great idea, you should run for CSM, too!
Sade Onyx	Posted - 2010.05.14 13:10:00 - [134] The test server has been patched and updated nearly every day for a week now!.. This is highly unusual and a bit frustrating when your trying to test, but does show that there is a monumental amount of busy bee's at CCP just now
JOHN RAMB0	Posted - 2010.05.14 13:43:00 - [135] At least the economical part of PI works fine. It will be worth everyoneÆs time to install some kind of PI infrastructure. Adopt or die if you fail to understand this.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.05.14 15:19:00 - [136] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Camios First, NPC market is not going to be unseeded since day one. There will be a transition period. Source? to second his source with an alternate and more recent one Ah, but be careful of what is asked... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Are the NPC generated buy orders for certain consumer/industrial goods staying in place?[...] They will remain in place for several weeks after launch whilst we give PI time to take over and iron out any major issues if any crop up. Yeah, i saw that. I figured Chronotis had missed that in his reply and was talking about sell orders, as it fit better with the context of his statements (Buy orders wouldn't help iron out PI bugs, but sell orders would) _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep!
Borun Tal Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.14 15:42:00 - [137] Originally by: Akita T The only question is, SHOULD CCP (or can CCP afford to) delay the expansion until PI is "good enough" FROM A GAMEPLAY/USEFULNESS STANDPOINT ? Personally, I think the only question is this: "Will all of the existing, known bugs be fixed in Tyrannis?" I would REALLY love to see bug fixes more than PI or Walking...
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.14 16:12:00 - [138] Edited by: Mendolus on 14/05/2010 16:15:43 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails Originally by: Obento Jones I could really care less about PI one way or the other. hi cat and a quick nitpick here lol To say you "could care less" about something implies that you care to a degree already. If you could "not care less" about something, then that suggests your level of caring about the subject is already at its lower limit. Thus how could you possibly care less lol x Main Entry: id+i+om Pronunciation: \ˈi-dē-əm\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French idiome, from Late Latin idioma individual peculiarity of language, from Greek idiōmat-, idiōma, from idiousthai to appropriate, from idios Date: 1588 1 a : the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community, or class : dialect b : the syntactical, grammatical, or structural form peculiar to a language 2 : an expression in the usage of a language that is peculiar to itself either grammatically (as no, it wasn't me) or in having a meaning that cannot be derived from the conjoined meanings of its elements (as Monday week for ôthe Monday a week after next Mondayö) 3 : a style or form of artistic expression that is characteristic of an individual, a period or movement, or a medium or instrument <the modern jazz idiom>; broadly : manner, style <a new culinary idiom> Source: Merriam Webster {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.14 16:33:00 - [139] Edited by: Tippia on 14/05/2010 16:35:25 Originally by: Mendolus Main Entry: id+i+om The problem is that the idiom here is "couldn't care less"à which, granted, isn't an idiom at all since it actually means what it says. "Could care less" is just plain old wrong, or, at best, a malapropism. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Mukuro Gravedigger	Posted - 2010.05.14 17:31:00 - [140] If this expansion is as boring and a click fest as others are stating, then I worry how soon the whole system becomes macro programmed similar to how many find mining / ice mining as boring and a (dull) click fest. Once a decent pattern layout is created, the macro program will cover planets in spider web patterns without concern of other player interactions and just let it run. If one area is a dead area, then another part of the planet spider webbed will gather the goods without the whole being a loosing proposition. Everything will be on automatic and well, similar again to macro mining.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.14 18:23:00 - [141] Edited by: Mendolus on 14/05/2010 18:26:39 Edited by: Mendolus on 14/05/2010 18:25:11 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 14/05/2010 16:35:25 Originally by: Mendolus Main Entry: id+i+om The problem is that the idiom here is "couldn't care less"à which, granted, isn't an idiom at all since it actually means what it says. "Could care less" is just plain old wrong, or, at best, a malapropism. Depends where you live doesn't have to make sense for people to use it to mean something it doesn't clearly state. According to the general English speaking public on Wikipedia, the idiom is in fact, could care less. And while Wikipedia is not the most valid of resources, it holds merit by virtue of the fact that speaking public is able to post said content, which is generally speaking, a representative sample of people who DO use the idiom. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.05.14 19:24:00 - [142] Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger If this expansion is as boring and a click fest as others are stating, then I worry how soon the whole system becomes macro programmed similar to how many find mining / ice mining as boring and a (dull) click fest. Once a decent pattern layout is created, the macro program will cover planets in spider web patterns without concern of other player interactions and just let it run. If one area is a dead area, then another part of the planet spider webbed will gather the goods without the whole being a loosing proposition. Everything will be on automatic and well, similar again to macro mining. Fun thing is, that the design promotes the use of macros. And to make it even more funny, they will give a really good yield because they can run all those good 30 minute cycles which a "normal" player uses at best the 5 hour cycle but usually the 24 hour cycle. And to top it, there is no way you can do anything against it as player. I wrote already a post on the test forum section, it didn't draw any attention or discussion though. Looks like people are either not aware of the danger or they don't care. But in any case it is far too late now anyway.
Dan Grobag Caldari Grobag's Family	Posted - 2010.05.14 19:52:00 - [143] Edited by: Dan Grobag on 14/05/2010 19:55:04 Apparently Tyrannis is delayed : http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=762&aid=105650&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=update&utm_content=evenews&utm_campaign=tyrannis
Entre Envy Gallente squaa	Posted - 2010.05.14 19:54:00 - [144] Akita T has spoken, and so it is done.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.14 19:57:00 - [145] Originally by: Dan Grobag Apparently Tyrannis is delayed : http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=762&aid=105650&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=update&utm_content=evenews&utm_campaign=tyrannis Buy your POS fuel now¹ before it's too late²! ¹ "Now" is here defined as slightly longer than usual. ² "Too late" is also slightly later than usual. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
AkJon Ferguson	Posted - 2010.05.14 20:13:00 - [146] Good job on not pushing out a fatally flawed product CCP. Thank-you. And if you need to delay it again, please do.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.05.14 20:27:00 - [147] Originally by: AkJon Ferguson Good job on not pushing out a fatally flawed product CCP. Thank-you. And if you need to delay it again, please do. Really what they can accomplish in ONE week. They should push it back for at least 3 months.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.14 20:30:00 - [148] Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Really what they can accomplish in ONE week. They should push it back for at least 3 months. Hopefully, fix scalability issues that would have made highsec seem like 0.0 on account of people wanting to keep their POSes fuelledà ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Aerilis Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.14 21:39:00 - [149] Akita's right again? Big surprise...
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.14 21:50:00 - [150] To answer the topic's original question... Quote: Dear CCP, are you seriously launching Tyrannis next week? Not anymore they won't ________________________ Let's build a superpower.

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