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Geralden
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:07:00 -
[31]
Horrible suggestions overall.
PI has to be insanely cheap to engage in, as its the most booring activity yet to be made in EVE.
Lialem, if you didnt reply to all your OWN posts like 200 times, maybe people would start to read what you write.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:59:00 -
[32]
I still don't get it how hugely increased costs in plain isk would improve gameplay and fun of PI (adding increased costs in constructing your own buildings from PI materials is a completely different thing though).
Also I would like to see some thoughts of the effects of largely increased costs (5 bil for an elite cc ...). What would that do?
Amd some thoughts of the reason for increased costs are missing - so far I see only the statement that PI is too cheap and that it should be more expensive. Why should it be more expensive? And how much more expensive exactly? And how would those costs effect the overal use of PI? And how is the relation to other activities in Eve (invested isk and ROI time/effort)? |
Larinioides cornutus
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:26:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Gnulpie
Amd some thoughts of the reason for increased costs are missing - so far I see only the statement that PI is too cheap and that it should be more expensive. Why should it be more expensive? And how much more expensive exactly? And how would those costs effect the overal use of PI? And how is the relation to other activities in Eve (invested isk and ROI time/effort)?
Due to PI being static structure constantly spewing out goodies for you and can be set to be very inactive-friendly (4d cycles), it's similar to datacore farming in the way that it's only profitable. Thus, it need a risk factor, and the easiest solution is to introduce cost, especially maintainance cost, so people must be more mindful of their colonies. Due to stuff from PI are supposedly cheap, it doesnt need to be much cost to be able to cause some people to actually LOSE money doing PI.
This cost will not affect overall production of PI much due to the "mineral I mine are free!!" syndrome. It will definitely bump up the production cost of PI, which is not a bad thing because at the current design, PI isnt as much of an ISK sink as NPC seeding goods is. If everyone do PI as they as expected to, the income they obtain from PI will offset the extra cost this cost will incur and thus int wont change the relative ratio of income between professions.
The income from PI comparing to other professions is not bad.
If you are a new player with only one char to run PI full time, then you are best with 30m installation cycle. With maxed out skills you'd have 6 colonies, each will be capable of fully support 10 t1 factory, totaling about 0.75 t4 factory worth, producing 1.5 t4 mat per hour.I estimate a t4 mat will stablize at 1.6m a piece, that's 2.4m/h equaling to a new character running lv2 or lv3 mission.
If you are an older player with 6 characters intending to run PI full time, then the 5h installation cycle is your friend. With everything running, you still have 2h left over to do something else. Each of your 36 elite colonies will fully support 5 basic factory, totalling 2.25 t4 factory worth, producing 4.5 t4 mat per hour or 7.2m/h. However, you only need to invest about 3h for a 5h production cycle so productivity of those 3h is actually 12m/h. That's like mining veldspar.
Do note that these are my estimations based on current market price, which might increase as npc goods are no longer seeded.
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ZiYauRen
Gallente
RedShift Limited
Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy
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Posted - 2010.06.04 10:11:00 -
[34]
I see the wambulance is already at full speed w/all sirens n lights on and blaring... can't wait for it to start... lookin forward to it... let the beatings commence.  
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.06.04 13:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gnulpie
I still don't get it how hugely increased costs in plain isk would improve gameplay and fun of PI (adding increased costs in constructing your own buildings from PI materials is a completely different thing though).
After a while dust will be introduced. It is supposed to help you defend, and help others take your CC. Tell me the reason of dust, if to build a CC you need only 7m isk. Paying a fee every day for maintenance is a completely different thing and wont help. Because if i pay a fee everyday, what makes me want to save my CC from attacks? I can very easily and cost effectively build another CC on a different planet and continue my production there and continue paying the same fee.
Even if for some reason someone attacks and takes my CC, why should i care? What do i lose? Only the cost of the CC. The fee i was paying till then was compensated by the income from my planet mining. What i lose is the cost of the investment on the planet. That cost is the cost of the buildings.
If i kill your POS, what you lose? you lose the money from the mining ofc but you lose the money you paid to build the tower. You dont lose the money you gave for the fuel all this time. But POSs are different, people want them for moon mining of rare minerals, and for base, logging in and out, so they dont want it to be destroyed. But all these dont apply to planets. So to make people NOT want to lose their CCs and to actually want to pay extra money to dust players to defend them, you have to give them a reason. Rare planets dont exists, you can just move to another planet, cost of the investment is almost 0, you can start your production on a different planet without loses. There is nothing that makes the players want to defend them. And this doesn't only affect dust. Making money without any cost and with absolutely no way for another player to disrupt you (in a PVP game) since you can always move to another planet, is beyond of what EVE used to be.
But ofc there will be many people that disagree with my suggestion, cause they like it this way, they want 0 cost and free money. Neither they want to care for possible attacks and the lose of the CC. Carebear paradise, and not what EVE used to be..... CCP is ruining EVE, step by step, in a blind attempt to get more players and money.
And new players can always build the low level CCs which are cheap.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lialem
After a while dust will be introduced. It is supposed to help you defend, and help others take your CC. Tell me the reason of dust, if to build a CC you need only 7m isk. Paying a fee every day for maintenance is a completely different thing and wont help.
But you do not know how Dust works at all. Maybe Dust will allow you to capture additional CC's on the same planet or the powergrid/cpu of the captured CC will be added to your own. Or you can control more than 6 planets if you just capture them. And then you can lose those additional planets/CC's until you are back to your maximum 6.
Who knows?
But you are right, if the loss of a CC due to a Dust team is not painful enough, then the fighting isn't worth it. Making CC's very expensive would make a loss painful.
Still I think that inherent gameplay solutions (like my above mentioned) are a better way than just throwing isk around. Wits, clever tactics and good ideas should always be more worth or at least not less worth than just plain isk.
But my biggest concern are the macros. PI is just PERFECT for macros. And I haven't heard anything about this from the devs. |
Heimer
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:56:00 -
[37]
Yes, I sincerely desire to pay billions for the larger CCs so I can produce 30 robotics per day on one planet.
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.06.04 19:01:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lialem on 04/06/2010 19:02:17
Originally by: Heimer
Yes, I sincerely desire to pay billions for the larger CCs so I can produce 30 robotics per day on one planet.
thats how eve works my friend. thats how bpos for example work. You pay large amounts to buy one, and you make little money for each copy for example. its a long term investment that gives u money for lifetime. same goes with everything in eve. well until now....
I made my suggestion, CCP 99% has read this topic, i hope they agree with me and raise the prices, else time will tell. 4 days to go.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.06.05 05:49:00 -
[39]
You do realize that (T2) BPO prices aren't just based off of arbitrarily large amount of money that sounds scary enough? They're sold for the projected amount of profit you can make off of them in a given period of time (like, a year). I doubt you'll be able to make billions on producing POS fuel, even on a year's scale, even if they remove NPC sell orders. It may very well be that 7 mil is already a lot of investment for the kind of income you'll get from PI.
And ffs, enough with saying that any potential way of making money must be complemented with 90% risk of losing 10x as much, or it's "NOT EVE". Economy needs reliable income sources to form the "baseline". If everything has a risk of failure, sooner or later a cascade failure will bring the whole thing down.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.05 08:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lialem
Edited by: Lialem on 04/06/2010 19:02:17
Originally by: Heimer
Yes, I sincerely desire to pay billions for the larger CCs so I can produce 30 robotics per day on one planet.
thats how eve works my friend. thats how bpos for example work. You pay large amounts to buy one, and you make little money for each copy for example. its a long term investment that gives u money for lifetime. same goes with everything in eve. well until now....
I made my suggestion, CCP 99% has read this topic, i hope they agree with me and raise the prices, else time will tell. 4 days to go.
With a BS BPO you can cover your buy price in less of a month of production.
Try that with your PI installation costs.
And try maintaining a POS if the fuel cost enough to cover those costs in a sane timeframe. 
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.06.05 15:40:00 -
[41]
Quote:
If everything has a risk of failure, sooner or later a cascade failure will bring the whole thing down.
You just described real life.... i dont see rl economy collapsing though...
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Larinioides cornutus
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Posted - 2010.06.05 21:50:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Larinioides cornutus on 05/06/2010 21:50:50
Originally by: Lialem
You just described real life.... i dont see rl economy collapsing though...
You was saying?
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.06.06 00:54:00 -
[43]
if your economic suggestions create a perfect world then why rl economists didn't implement them? do you think you know better than them?...... lol
it works in rl it will work in eve.
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Larinioides cornutus
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Posted - 2010.06.06 06:15:00 -
[44]
Most economists arent the people in charge. The greedy bastards who want to create an economy scheme that profit them the most usually are. A system that "bubble" it's own worth can be easily siphoned from. Shrinkage can be easily observed and then traced from an enclosed system with constant total worth.
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SylvOne OeilSombre
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Posted - 2010.06.06 15:45:00 -
[45]
Edited by: SylvOne OeilSombre on 06/06/2010 15:45:47
Edited by: SylvOne OeilSombre on 06/06/2010 15:45:12
The prices you proposed are completly insane, are you even aware of the PLEX price?
It clearly show the average EVE player isn't so rich, CCP isn't stupid enough to make DUST based on 1% of the EVE playerbase
Cheap is the way to go
We agree about one thing : DUST will be a failure if EVE players don't give jobs to DUST players
But i hope they have better ideas than yours for that to doesn't happen...
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electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.06.07 04:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lialem
import tax should be bigger than export tax and way bigger than what it is now.
export tax per m3 = 1.000 isk
import tax per m3 = 3.000 isk
heh, this'll be fun.
Currently via launchpad it costs 600 isk in export taxes to remove one P3 item off of the planet, assuming its components were made on the same planet. If you have to bring in one of the P3's components from another planet (3.33 units of a P2 component), this brings the total tax costs up to 21,000. Now at your prices, they would be 900,000 (not importing anything to build the P3) and 36,004,499,964 (importing 3.33 units of a P2 component to build the P3 item). And that's just the tax on ONE P3 item.
Now, for a P4 item, if all of its components were made on the planet except one P3 component(need to import 6 units of the P3 component), taxes would be 93,600 (the export tax on the P4 item in this case is 2 isk, I haven't been able to figure out P4 export taxes yet so this number will have to do). Now for your numbers, this total tax would be 360,010,800,000 (the export tax on the P4 item here is your number, 3000).
At this point, your prices would have killed the POS market, the P.I. market, the T3 market and the T2 market.
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Vexo M > He turned the drives up to 11 |
Houaha
Gallente
The Mercurial Order
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Posted - 2010.06.07 10:57:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Houaha on 07/06/2010 10:57:28
there already are prices set i think look here: http://www.eve-ivy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Planetary_Buildings
theres a whole chart on the prices that there going to be at the top
it is expinsive in my opinion but then again i dont make much money lol
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Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.06.07 13:32:00 -
[48]
Wow, op is either clueless or is a troll... Possibly both.
Who in their right mind would buy an elite command center for 10 billion isk while only gaining 2,000 pg/cpu ish?
Not to mention, even if all the stuff one could build with PI where to sell at 4 times or even 40 times the price they have now... it would still take a few lifetimes to regain the investment.
Or in other words, NO.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2010.06.08 08:01:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ariane VoxDei on 08/06/2010 08:05:49
Edited by: Ariane VoxDei on 08/06/2010 08:04:58
as of last night:
Export cost at launchpad/spacethingy
rawmat / P0 : 10 isk/m3 (tested with 100 units at 0.01m3/unit, cost 10isk)
P1 : 2 isk/m3 (tested with precious metals)
P2 : 6 isk/m3 (tested with mechanical parts)
P3 : ?
P4 : ?
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