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The cost of PI?

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Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:11:22 So whats the whole cost of mining the planets? Cause atm and after messing with sisi it doesn't seem that there is a significant cost associated with it. Doesn't look like PI structures will have a price, you can just place and delete everything all the time and there is no penalty. Export and import taxes are just a joke, you can export/import almost everything and the max you might pay for big cargos will be what? 1m isk? probably even lower. And command centers? well judging from base prices they gonna be cheap like there is no tomorrow.... 7m for an elite command center????.... lol would have expected more like 5b..... So to conclude, PI has absolutely no cost, free isk for everyone with no expenses. The more i dig into PI the more i find out how incomplete and how shallow it is. PI cost = 0. PI depth = 0. PI complexity = 0. PI features = 0. The whole promised and long waited expansion that introduces planets is this.... This easy, shallow, and 0-risk expansion.... grats. GJ CCP, you can now drag even more new players for your subscription numbers, if you make eve even more easy you will probably get 100k ppl in TQ in no time. Tbh i thought CCP was a different company, but looks like its all about the money for everyone. Welcome to WOW in space, grab a planet and start making isk.
Hiroshi Nagasaki	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:13:00 - [2] What? I can train a few skills, buy a retriever/hulk and can start making money like there is no tomorrow? Ahhhh please..... there are a few PI costs Skills, PI Center, moving the extractor after the planet is empty, move materials from 1 planet to another complexity is also available - if you want to produce it correct you should plan it with ur corp to produce something out of the items you produce PI is more as only click the 96h cycle and be happy with 5.000 ISK/day
Dragossin	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:15:00 - [3] Edited by: Dragossin on 01/06/2010 15:15:39 Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:11:22 Doesn't look like PI structures will have a price, you can just place and delete everything all the time and there is no penalty. I think you should check your wallet after you submitted the changes.
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:24:46 Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki Skills, You joking me right? you need less than 10m to buy the skills and tbh the expensive skill (advanced planetology) costs 7m and its the only """"""""expensive""""""""""" skill..... And that BIG uber isk is a one time expense.... Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki PI Center, Yea if you train command center upgrades to 5 and you want a super duper elite command center, you have to pay the incredibly big amount of isk which is,.............. 7m isk. Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki moving the extractor after the planet is empty, The planet is empty?????? the planet never gets empty, resources regenerate very quickly, and you can always choose a different deposit IF someday your chosen one is depleted. And even if you ahd to change planet you had to pay what????? the uber expensive fee of 7m for the command center? (and that is if you buy the elite, lowers ones are cheaper........) Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki move materials from 1 planet to another Yea ofc, and there is an uber fee of exporting and importing and that is 3 isk per m3. And if you build a spaceport (which you will), the fee is 1 isk per m3.... Import fee is 2 isk per m3..... Very expensive omg..... Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki complexity is also available - if you want to produce it correct you should plan it with ur corp to produce something out of the items you produce Tbh you can build everything alone. You dont need help. And for most tier 4 parts you might not even need interplanetary skill to 5...... Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki PI is more as only click the 96h cycle and be happy with 5.000 ISK/day Think again. Originally by: Dragossin Edited by: Dragossin on 01/06/2010 15:15:39 Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:11:22 Doesn't look like PI structures will have a price, you can just place and delete everything all the time and there is no penalty. I think you should check your wallet after you submitted the changes. Yes indeed i haven't checked my wallet. But they cant be more expensive that the command center that costs 7m..... So you will need what? 30m to place all the structures you need?.... Big deal....
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:27:35 Not to mention that with all those ridiculously low prices, dust will be a failure. Noone wil even care to hire dust players to save their structures. They will just leave them and find another planet.... Or even destroy them themselves...
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:38:00 - [6] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:39:49 You wanna see a proper cost for PI? basic cc = 100.000 isk limited cc = 1.000.000 isk standard cc = 10.000.000 isk imporved cc = 100.000.000 isk advanced cc = 1.000.000.000 isk elite cc = 10.000.000.000 isk import tax should be bigger than export tax and way bigger than what it is now. export tax per m3 = 1.000 isk import tax per m3 = 3.000 isk exctractor = 50.000.000 isk basic industry = 100.000.000 isk advanced industry = 300.000.000 isk high tech industry = 500.000.000 isk storage = 80.000.000 isk links = 5.000 isk per kilometer spaceport = 500.000.000 isk thats a cost plan for PI and makes it an investment and something you want to save using dust players. How the **** an elite command center that is landed on a planet costs less than a t1 cruiser????............
Hiroshi Nagasaki	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:42:00 - [7] Edited by: Hiroshi Nagasaki on 01/06/2010 15:43:18 great idea.... and what should be the prices for the POS fuel? oxygen = 1.000 ISK robotics = 50.000 ISK that's insane.... just ur import/export costs 1 Robotic = 6m¦ = 6.000 ISK to export from planet??????
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:47:00 - [8] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:47:40 if the prices should go up then they will go up. We try to make PI useful? or we try to give a way to make the npc goods using same prices just to satisfy the demand for planet use?.... Well probably the second.... Quote: 1 Robotic = 6m¦ = 6.000 ISK to export from planet?????? And now costs 12 isk. is that normal?
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 16:00:00 - [9] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 16:01:12 Another idea for PI structures would be this. For a more variable cost scheme. exctractor = 0.005 x selected cc cost basic industry = 0.01 x selected cc cost advanced industry = 0.03 x selected cc cost high tech industry = 0.05 x selected cc cost storage = 0.008 x selected cc cost links = 5.000 isk per kilometer spaceport = 0.05 x selected cc cost
Hiroshi Nagasaki	Posted - 2010.06.01 16:03:00 - [10] ehh.... y lol... I still think you can write it here but nobody will care.... they want to keep the prices the same as the current NPC prices.... just calculate the costs to produce 1 robotic/oxygen with ur example.... and tell me that this price won't impact the current market... just think about what will happen if the POS fuel will raise about 400%

Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 16:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki ehh.... y lol... I still think you can write it here but nobody will care.... they want to keep the prices the same as the current NPC prices.... just calculate the costs to produce 1 robotic/oxygen with ur example.... and tell me that this price won't impact the current market... just think about what will happen if the POS fuel will raise about 400% well, then PI will fail, and dust will fail even more.
Hiroshi Nagasaki	Posted - 2010.06.01 16:50:00 - [12] nah it won't fail but I think in the beginning nearly all players will do it... the prices will be pretty low due to the high amount of minerals... some player will **** off and quit the PI(they dont earn enough ISK/h) so the prices will raise... and so on so in 1-3 month we will see what will happen with the prices and the PI :) I mean they still can increase the costs... lower the costs... change the extractor rates or whatever but for now they should better stay with the current config and watch the market If I'm wrong please correct me :)
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.01 18:12:00 - [13] Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 18:13:09 if something now costs 100isk, worst thing you can do is make it cost 200isk... or 300isk. No matter how they alter the prices, they did a bad start, so now the prices and costs cant change much. You cant make a 7m elite cc, cost 1b the next day.... maybe make it cost 20m and thats it. Still way too low....
Aneeks	Posted - 2010.06.01 22:32:00 - [14] Well I found an error in the production part of PI and the market. I see now that you can produce Nanite Repair Paste from the products you produce from PI. They are Data Chips (1), Gel-matrix Biopaste (1), and nanite (4). Once you have those products made you just need a blueprint to put them all together to make the paste. Nice or is it? ... EVE sells the blueprints for a cost of 50 million isk (for a run of 5). So just before you go to buy the blueprint, you check the market for the paste and find the EVE already produces and sells the paste themselves for only 1,900k ........... what? Ok that makes no sense. Why take the time to produce to the components for the expensive blueprint when EVE is already undercutting the market with their own Nanite Repair Paste. So I guess that has just become a useless PI production. 1 down, and a few more to check.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.06.01 23:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Aneeks Why take the time to produce to the components for the expensive blueprint when EVE is already undercutting the market with their own Nanite Repair Paste. So I guess that has just become a useless PI production. What makes you think the NPC sell orders are gonna stay after PI launches?
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.01 23:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:39:49 You wanna see a proper cost for PI? basic cc = 100.000 isk limited cc = 1.000.000 isk standard cc = 10.000.000 isk imporved cc = 100.000.000 isk advanced cc = 1.000.000.000 isk elite cc = 10.000.000.000 isk import tax should be bigger than export tax and way bigger than what it is now. export tax per m3 = 1.000 isk import tax per m3 = 3.000 isk exctractor = 50.000.000 isk basic industry = 100.000.000 isk advanced industry = 300.000.000 isk high tech industry = 500.000.000 isk storage = 80.000.000 isk links = 5.000 isk per kilometer spaceport = 500.000.000 isk thats a cost plan for PI and makes it an investment and something you want to save using dust players. How the **** an elite command center that is landed on a planet costs less than a t1 cruiser????............ Very easily, mate. A spaceships is infinitely more complex than any powerplant/office building you want to place on a planet to administer your industry operation ANY day of the week. Are you fricking kidding? How can you even suggest it? THINK!!! 10b isk for an elite cmd center WTF are you smoking? Do you even realize how much money that is? RP wise? 1 isk is like the entire year earning for a normal person. So let's say that's $20.000. That means you want a command center to cost the equivalent of $200.000.000.000.000! two hundred thousand billion dollars! Are you absolutely insane? For a fricking building? Besides planetary bombardment is coming next iteration. Declare war and bomb someones PI stuff! However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
Aneeks	Posted - 2010.06.02 05:35:00 - [17] Omara - Thanks for the reminder .... yes I'm sure they would take all the npc sell orders down. Lialem - I hear you and agree somewhat with what your saying ... but you prices that you layed out are way too extreme. You must remember one important factor to owning a Command Center, and that is, will you get your investment return on your purchase. Zaerlorth you said: Besides planetary bombardment is coming next iteration. Declare war and bomb someones PI stuff! wondering how they will come up with a plan to war dec someone who belongs to an NPC corp, just so you can attack their PI stuff? Or War-dec not required and you will be able to attack anyone's PI stuff (which then would just become a big mess).
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.06.02 06:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Aneeks Zaerlorth you said: Besides planetary bombardment is coming next iteration. Declare war and bomb someones PI stuff! wondering how they will come up with a plan to war dec someone who belongs to an NPC corp, just so you can attack their PI stuff? Or War-dec not required and you will be able to attack anyone's PI stuff (which then would just become a big mess). Ya I have to agree but I been wrong before lol. PI training is easy and short. Very easy to train on alts that sit in npc corps to bother with War-decing. Realy it would just mean all the PI alts get moved to npc corps were they pay no taxs and are safe. We all know that is what will happen anyways. If bombardment is used with War-dec's in high sec. But it just mite go down like that for low sec and null/wh. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Kyusoath Orillian Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.02 13:15:00 - [19] really poor troll attempt. 10b command centre hilarious.
An Anarchyyt Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:52:00 - [20] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 02/06/2010 14:53:03 <-Features and Ideas Forum is that way. My favorite part is how it should cost as much to export robotics as they currently sell for. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person

Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.02 22:22:00 - [21] Edited by: Lialem on 02/06/2010 22:23:24 Quote: Are you absolutely insane? For a fricking building? A building that for example in gas planets, floats in air, protects you from dangerous gases, protects you from radiation in non atmosphere planets like lava, plasma, and generally can protect you from all sorts of hazardous environments. Not to mention that it builds itself, cause no human can walk, on a plasma planet for example, and build it. Think man, THINK... Prices might be high, might be low. I just made a suggestion, judge the overall idea and not the exact numbers.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.06.03 10:22:00 - [22] What would be the use of high priced PI buildings? Except to exclude new/young players? I can't see how extremely high prices on buildings would add anything useful to gameplay. How would it make PI more interesting if I have to pay 500 mil instead of 500k? Can't see any more fun comming from that. Import/export taxes are NOT always 1 or 2 isk per m3! Go and test it on your own. You have already 500 isk export tax at the P4 items per m3. But again, higher taxes wouldn't add a single bit more fun or increase the gameplay in any way. Your only suggestion here basically is: make it a lot more expensive, then it will be a lot of fun. And that is of course not only wrong but plain stupid. There are better suggestions already which don't involve just some odd artificial isk withdrawls from your wallet. One of them is that we should build the PI structures on our own with PI materials. Another is that we should have population control with associated running upkeep costs in form of trade goods (water, oxygen, biomass etc.). Another is that we should have more player-player interaction possible (trade hubs on planets, using other players networks for your own routing etc.). All of those add some new gameplay elements into PI, none of them are based on the thought 'make it more expensive, then it will be more fun'. Everything should emerge from the gameplay itself and not from some artificial limitations. Mineral prices emerge from gameplay. Isotope prices arise from gameplay etc. And that is how it should be! NO aritificial caps, limits or whatever! All emerging from within the game itself (of course due to complex gameplay only so that macros wouldn't work - as they would do successfully right now with PI ). Of course PI is very unfinished and I am disappointed with the current state, but just increasing the costs wouldn't help a single bit!
Pennwisedom Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:32:00 - [23] The answer is that it would keep a troll thread going.
Larinioides cornutus	Posted - 2010.06.03 14:48:00 - [24] Edited by: Larinioides cornutus on 03/06/2010 14:49:21 His numbers are indeed horrible but the PI maintance cost being non existence is just as bad. I myself have stated similar suggestion, shameless plug.
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.03 16:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Lialem on 03/06/2010 16:28:03 You will see that sooner or later CCP will do something like the idea im suggesting. I post it so they can change it sooner rather than later. (And tbh CCP has a habit to fix things later....). They want dust to be a success and it wont be a success if PI costs are low. And about PI being inaccessible to new players using my idea, check out my second price suggestion post. First read, then flame. Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 16:01:12 Another idea for PI structures would be this. For a more variable cost scheme. exctractor = 0.005 x selected cc cost basic industry = 0.01 x selected cc cost advanced industry = 0.03 x selected cc cost high tech industry = 0.05 x selected cc cost storage = 0.008 x selected cc cost links = 5.000 isk per kilometer spaceport = 0.05 x selected cc cost
Larinioides cornutus	Posted - 2010.06.03 19:42:00 - [26] Edited by: Larinioides cornutus on 03/06/2010 19:47:02 Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 15:39:49 exctractor = 50.000.000 isk basic industry = 100.000.000 isk advanced industry = 300.000.000 isk high tech industry = 500.000.000 isk storage = 80.000.000 isk links = 5.000 isk per kilometer spaceport = 500.000.000 isk Is not the same as Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 03/06/2010 16:28:03 Edited by: Lialem on 01/06/2010 16:01:12 exctractor = 0.005 x selected cc cost basic industry = 0.01 x selected cc cost advanced industry = 0.03 x selected cc cost high tech industry = 0.05 x selected cc cost storage = 0.008 x selected cc cost links = 5.000 isk per kilometer spaceport = 0.05 x selected cc cost I'd also like to note that high upfront cost only hampers new characters. Unlike other high tier skills like t2 ships or cap ships, new players have as much footing on PI as old ones. There's no saying many new characters wont get lv5 on all PI skills to build up his ISK. If you want to increase PI cost, I strongly recommend suggesting changes to its maintainance cost which is CCPingly sitting at 0.
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.03 21:30:00 - [27] Edited by: Lialem on 03/06/2010 21:31:45 Quote: Is not the same as nice pretty red letters, but who told you that its the same? I specifically say "a more variable cost scheme".... READ MAN, READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE WRITING PRETTY BOLD RED LETTERS. Makes you look like a fool. Quote: I strongly recommend suggesting changes to its maintainance cost which is CCPingly sitting at 0. Well then, stop posting pretty red letters, and start suggesting.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.06.03 23:26:00 - [28] Yeah, let's pay a billion ISK for a colony. Then you'd only need to maintain it for 100 years to gain return from your investment. That wouldn't totally destroy PI, nope, can't see that. In fact, make it 10 bil per colony, wouldn't want the DUSTies fighting over nothing, now do we? --------
Larinioides cornutus	Posted - 2010.06.04 02:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 03/06/2010 21:31:45 Quote: Is not the same as nice pretty red letters, but who told you that its the same? I specifically say "a more variable cost scheme".... READ MAN, READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE WRITING PRETTY BOLD RED LETTERS. Makes you look like a fool. Ya? This is what you said one post before: Originally by: Lialem And about PI being inaccessible to new players using my idea, check out my second price suggestion post. First read, then flame. Originally by: Lialem Some quoted numbers This is your 1st and 2nd posts with price suggestions in it. See anything like what you quoted yourself? Originally by: Lialem Well then, stop posting pretty red letters, and start suggesting. This is my suggestion including PI price, posted 2010.05.29 18:00:00. This thread of yours first posted 2010.06.01 15:06:00. Who did not read before posting now?
Lialem	Posted - 2010.06.04 02:26:00 - [30] Edited by: Lialem on 04/06/2010 02:27:25 Quote: This is your 1st and 2nd posts with price suggestions in it. See anything like what you quoted yourself? Read the damn posts ffs......., its like i speak to a wall.... wtf is this then? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1328623&page=1#9 grats you made yourself not only look like a fool, but also look like an idiot.



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