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Nagal Sombre	Posted - 2010.06.02 20:38:00 - [31] First post i feel is legitimate in all this Tyrannis "cry for nerf" inflated story. It remind me a very similar situation in the father of all mmo, when they changed the most challenging pve aspect of the game, deliberatly destroyed that challenge because of "stupid" balancing reasons not even related. I just begin the game, so i'm not one of those getting his thrill from soloing lv5, but if i was, i really don't know what i would think about this, whatever it was so much needed or not, and as you said what i would do next. In all mmo pve are pretty boring, but sometime the game balance well enough to give some good feeling to players, even pve wise, this worth much more than any thing else imo, because thats that kind of thing a good game should deliver above all, but its where all fail miserably. In fact sometime it seam like the dev are lost in those mmo related problems, liek balancing, inflation and all, and just forget to craft a good experience to their players.
AlastorTheLost	Posted - 2010.06.02 21:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Nagal Sombre First post i feel is legitimate in all this Tyrannis "cry for nerf" inflated story. It remind me a very similar situation in the father of all mmo, when they changed the most challenging pve aspect of the game, deliberatly destroyed that challenge because of "stupid" balancing reasons not even related. I just begin the game, so i'm not one of those getting his thrill from soloing lv5, but if i was, i really don't know what i would think about this, whatever it was so much needed or not, and as you said what i would do next. In all mmo pve are pretty boring, but sometime the game balance well enough to give some good feeling to players, even pve wise, this worth much more than any thing else imo, because thats that kind of thing a good game should deliver above all, but its where all fail miserably. In fact sometime it seam like the dev are lost in those mmo related problems, liek balancing, inflation and all, and just forget to craft a good experience to their players. I know 100% what you are saying mate and i also know that the dev's have lost there toch with the game reallity and i can understand this situation because i was working 10 years as one and i seen this happend every day ...... The thing that they should do imo is to admit that they did something that in a depth of time will be bad for there business and just roll it back .....we all know that bags should be fixed only if they create an issue and if ppl complain about and not fix something that actualy create more complains....thats how this things work in all businesses.....i just cant get it cas i am not the only one complaining about the situation. And because i hate to be treated like a dog and with this i mean that they are pointing to low sec like we are in a frickin dictatorship situation if you are getting my meaning with my awfule english
XICD7 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.06.02 21:44:00 - [33] I wish ccp will take all this back and we could run missions like we did beffor the Tyrranis that point to a Tyrranic new eve world.....eve should not be a full time job in order to get some fun ..... I read a hell lot of complains is there no one from CCP that will give an answare to all this ppl that complaining ????
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.02 22:29:00 - [34] Originally by: XICD7 I wish ccp will take all this back and we could run missions like we did beffor the Tyrranis that point to a Tyrranic new eve world.....eve should not be a full time job in order to get some fun ..... I read a hell lot of complains is there no one from CCP that will give an answare to all this ppl that complaining ???? If wishes were were horses we would all be eating steak. But the harsh reality is that CCP has never rolled back or removed a change ever. As with every prior patch: Adapt or perish PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.02 23:06:00 - [35] Edited by: Goose99 on 02/06/2010 23:10:21 Originally by: FunzzeR Originally by: XICD7 I wish ccp will take all this back and we could run missions like we did beffor the Tyrranis that point to a Tyrranic new eve world.....eve should not be a full time job in order to get some fun ..... I read a hell lot of complains is there no one from CCP that will give an answare to all this ppl that complaining ???? If wishes were were horses we would all be eating steak. But the harsh reality is that CCP has never rolled back or removed a change ever. As with every prior patch: Adapt or perish You got that wrong. It's "adapt or cancel subscription and save yourself some money."
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.02 23:19:00 - [36] Hacker? Rick Rolling is hacking now? That's all this post is.
Daft Bugger	Posted - 2010.06.02 23:28:00 - [37] 1st, learn to spell Originally by: AlastorTheLost Mission runners will be broke so ccp will get money again from paying subscription and not been able to get the isks needed to obtain a nice plex. 2nd, People that ran missions to buy plex's or GTC to fund their eve time actually bought them off some-one who actually bought them with RL money. So i carn't see where you figured that CCP will get more cash from paying subs 3rd, If a lvl4 mission runner cannot earn enough isk to buy a plex/GTC they are doing something very wrong Daft as a Brush o7
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.03 00:15:00 - [38] Originally by: Daft Bugger 1st, learn to spell Originally by: AlastorTheLost Mission runners will be broke so ccp will get money again from paying subscription and not been able to get the isks needed to obtain a nice plex. 2nd, People that ran missions to buy plex's or GTC to fund their eve time actually bought them off some-one who actually bought them with RL money. So i carn't see where you figured that CCP will get more cash from paying subs 3rd, If a lvl4 mission runner cannot earn enough isk to buy a plex/GTC they are doing something very wrong Daft as a Brush o7 This. Otherwise, the fail in this thread is staggering... PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
vonPhil	Posted - 2010.06.03 01:54:00 - [39] Originally by: FunzzeR "But the harsh reality is that CCP has never rolled back or removed a change ever." Only idiots never change their mind...
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.03 02:03:00 - [40] Originally by: vonPhil Originally by: FunzzeR "But the harsh reality is that CCP has never rolled back or removed a change ever." Only idiots never change their mind... Say that about some of the previous and harsher nerfs.. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!

Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.03 02:45:00 - [41] Originally by: FunzzeR Originally by: vonPhil Originally by: FunzzeR "But the harsh reality is that CCP has never rolled back or removed a change ever." Only idiots never change their mind... Say that about some of the previous and harsher nerfs.. "Harsher" is relative. The amount of people affected by stuff like ship nerf, sov system, titan... etc is tiny compared to now. Tyrannis has the screw on everyone, the least of which are mission runners(they're not even nerfed that much, just moan the loudest). Miners got the real screw, bottom just fell out of common ore prices from insurance. Industrialists can't just self destruct ships, if they predict the trend wrong, they'll just have to eat that negative margin. Pirates are left alone, as missioners all left for deep-highsec hubs. Oh, and there's Lagfest 2.0, double the lag, with node crashes to spice it up. Who says you can't have too much of a good thing?
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2010.06.03 04:30:00 - [42] Originally by: AlastorTheLost Mission runners will be broke so ccp will get money again from paying subscription and not been able to get the isks needed to obtain a nice plex. Umm.... plexes have been bought from CCP for real money. When I pay my subscription with a plex, someone has paid it in dollars, euros, yen, or whatever.
Sariton Xavian	Posted - 2010.06.03 04:58:00 - [43] I ran hisec 5's. I'm sad they are gone. Objectively however, I can't in good conscience ask for them back - at least not the way they were. How about, the reward from a mission is leveraged by the systems you go to in order to complete them, rather than the system they are issued in? And sharpen the curve a little in terms of how much more .4 is worth compared to .5. Then 5's could go back to the old system and things would be balanced. Bigger problem with the changes is the wanton abandon with which lowsec couriers are getting handed out. Last night I ran a level 4 to trigger a story mission. It sent me on a 8km3 courier through lowsec. Took me half an hour to get the logistics sorted to do the mission, and if I hadn't had 2 accounts to allow me to scout, the only thing that would have been between me and a standing loss at the hands of the 4 guys camping the gate at the time I was ready to go through it was cloaking, crawling and praying. Would have had to quit the mission, take the standing hit, the whole box and dice. What was the reward for this mission? Something like 240 LP on a maxed Negotiation/LP skills character. Hmm, risk a standing hit to spend 30 minutes on an industrial courier through lowsec... or complete 2x level 4 combat missions duel boxing, worth 8k LP each in hisec with no risk of standing loss and almost no risk of ship loss. 240 LP and risk of standing loss vs 16k LP. Hard choice. Conducting missions in lowsec needs a much greater reward to match the risk. Note the important key is CONDUCTING. Having a mission issued in lowsec vs hisec should mean nothing, its where you have to go to complete it that actually matters and that is what should define the reward.
Doctor Aibolit	Posted - 2010.06.03 05:21:00 - [44] There is no sense to move L4 missions to low-sec :) Reward difference is not so big. Bounty is the same, loot is the same, LP difference is like 5k VS 7k. It is not worth to risk 1-2 billion ship for addition 2k LP per mission :)))
Dorn Val	Posted - 2010.06.03 05:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Goose99 ...Griefers don't want pvp, silly. They want your tears to satisfy their depravity that cannot be fullfilled irl. This.
AlastorTheLost	Posted - 2010.06.03 08:26:00 - [46] Good morning , Ok to all ppl that think they where making some money i will tell you one thing and one thing only .....600 millions per day .....find me a way to obtain the isks i was making to consider the game balanced because imo if you cut something from a game you have to point to something else that will make you the same isks .....yes CCP i am talking to you respond...... And to myster perferct speller i am not english so i will make all the mistakes i want and everyone else that post staff in the forum if this upsets you just dont read the freaking post's \o/ peace out
Liqsquid	Posted - 2010.06.03 09:33:00 - [47] Originally by: AlastorTheLost Mission runners will be broke so ccp will get money again from paying subscription and not been able to get the isks needed to obtain a nice plex. I think a lot of people are missing what the real point of patches and expansions are about, Eve is a game to us but it is a BUSINESS to CCP. This is about creating more revenue for an old game that many of us love, think about it. It is in the best interests of CCP to keep its subscribers happy but if they can do that and make a little more money they will. I'm sure somewhere in there very large company they have a man crunching numbers and working out how many players they will lose against how much extra profit they will make. This patch will make them more money. (<---- Here is the bottom line.)
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:10:00 - [48] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/06/2010 11:10:27 You people can't really be -this- clueless. It's impossible You aren't paying CCP in ISK for your gametime. You are TRADING ISK FOR GAMETIME with ANOTHER PLAYER. When you buy PLEX, some other player is paying your $14.99/month in exchange for however much ISK you gave them. Accounts are NEVER paid for by anything other than cash. PLEX is just a way to get someone else to pay that for you. The idea that CCP makes extra income by stopping people from buying PLEX is just incredibly dumb. If anything, some people (very few) may end up closing alt accounts due to the (very slightly) increased difficulty of paying for it. Closed accounts = less money for CCP.
crimson fire	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:23:00 - [49] Edited by: crimson fire on 03/06/2010 11:23:32 Edited by: crimson fire on 03/06/2010 11:23:15 Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Jaravan If I wanted to PVP would I be running a mission? Again as I have said before, Pvp is fine for who ever wants to do it. Great. Pve is fine for who ever wants to do that. But ffs please quit trying to turn me into a target when all I want to do is PVE. Wrong game, WoW is that way -> In eve you already are a target all the time you're logged on and not docked Omg, i hate ppl that w h*re the wow comment all over the place. Its so tiring. Put on a new record dude, the old one is worn out.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Kahega Amielden The idea that CCP makes extra income by stopping people from buying PLEX is just incredibly dumb. àin fact, chances are that CCP would make more money if everyone started to use PLEXes. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

AlastorTheLost	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/06/2010 11:10:27 You people can't really be -this- clueless. It's impossible You aren't paying CCP in ISK for your gametime. You are TRADING ISK FOR GAMETIME with ANOTHER PLAYER. When you buy PLEX, some other player is paying your $14.99/month in exchange for however much ISK you gave them. Accounts are NEVER paid for by anything other than cash. PLEX is just a way to get someone else to pay that for you. The idea that CCP makes extra income by stopping people from buying PLEX is just incredibly dumb. If anything, some people (very few) may end up closing alt accounts due to the (very slightly) increased difficulty of paying for it. Closed accounts = less money for CCP. Ofc ppl know that ccp gets money from plex how dose not know that ^^ I think that this topic lost its original destination the issue is not to argue about all this things the issue is to give CCP an idea of what a lot of ppl think about the new nerf of lvl 5's missions in high sec and only that so please stick to this and continue to post your feedbacks in here if this is bothering you. Also its ok to think that ppl are clueless because it is the basic's of a healthy conversation of dishagreement its all good . I am trying to say that ppl are loosing there interest in the game cas it has a tendencie to become a full time job .And that should not be the case in a game because ppl have lifes and they should be able to enjoy the game and there life . Personaly i feel this way and i know over 50 ppl that feel the same way .....Also there are a lot of mission running corporations that liked to pve and fuel other accounts cas we all know that pve skills are terrible in pvp and some ppl dose not interested in pvp with certain accounts . All i am saying is that this is a major change that they made and they try to change the way players are playing and thats bad imo and forgive me if my principles in general dont .I remember a lot of games that did that and fail a hell lot i just can believe that this might happen to eve as well . Some will say again adapt of perish all i will do is smile at them ones more .
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:51:00 - [52] Originally by: AlastorTheLost ..600 millions per day...find me a way to obtain the isks i was making ... Out of curiosity, what do you spend 600m a day on? oO Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
Looped72	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:56:00 - [53] Edited by: Looped72 on 03/06/2010 11:58:22 Edited by: Looped72 on 03/06/2010 11:58:01 I myself do not plex, I PAY for three accounts. I have a PVP character, and two mission / mining characters (used to support my PVP character), and I really think CCP needs high sec lvl 5 missions. I would love to run them, and would use the ISK's to spend on my PVP character, not to plex, but I will not take my mission characters into low sec to do them. Too many griefers in low sec (being a PVP'er doesn't mean being a griefer). Just my two cents (uh I mean ISK's) on the matter
1OfMany	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Liqsquid It is in the best interests of CCP to keep its subscribers happy but if they can do that and make a little more money they will. I'm sure somewhere in there very large company they have a man crunching numbers and working out how many players they will lose against how much extra profit they will make. This patch will make them more money. (<---- Here is the bottom line.) I'm pretty sure Sony thought the same when they changed a class in one of their MMO's, within a year orso the community there was dead and they where left with a dead MMO. I believe it was Starwars...
Bo Bojangles Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:19:00 - [55] Originally by: AlastorTheLost ...600 millions per day .....find me a way to obtain the isks i was making to consider the game balanced because imo if you cut something from a game you have to point to something else that will make you the same isks ... So you're maintaining that the potential of earning 600mil/day is not worth the risk of any loss. Am I understanding this correctly? I have to second the above poster and ask whatever do you need that kind of isk for in the absence of any risk? I risk ships to pvp daily and flog my isk the hard way in between but I don't require a fraction of this amount and am still far from being iskless.
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:31:00 - [56] Quote: I think that this topic lost its original destination the issue is not to argue about all this things the issue is to give CCP an idea of what a lot of ppl think about the new nerf of lvl 5's missions in high sec A lot of people think L5s never had any business being in highsec, for much the same reason that Sleepers and 10/10 plexes have no business being in high sec.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:39:00 - [57] Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Quote: I think that this topic lost its original destination the issue is not to argue about all this things the issue is to give CCP an idea of what a lot of ppl think about the new nerf of lvl 5's missions in high sec A lot of people think L5s never had any business being in highsec, for much the same reason that Sleepers and 10/10 plexes have no business being in high sec. This thinking contradicts reality, and is therefore wrong. Sleeper sites and 10/10 plexes do not exist in highsec. L5s do exist in highsec, and now that corps are organizing dumpings of useless alts into neighboring lowsec, L5s spawns in highsec all the time. Tyrannis mission bug is such that it can be manipulated by moving toons around. Those that want lvl5s to be lowsec have lost, and will continue to lose so long as the easily manipulated Tyrannis bug dictate mission placement, instead of pure probability.
AlastorTheLost	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:54:00 - [58] Originally by: Bo Bojangles Originally by: AlastorTheLost ...600 millions per day .....find me a way to obtain the isks i was making to consider the game balanced because imo if you cut something from a game you have to point to something else that will make you the same isks ... So you're maintaining that the potential of earning 600mil/day is not worth the risk of any loss. Am I understanding this correctly? I have to second the above poster and ask whatever do you need that kind of isk for in the absence of any risk? I risk ships to pvp daily and flog my isk the hard way in between but I don't require a fraction of this amount and am still far from being iskless. If you think that soloing lvl 5's have no risk its ovius that you never been in this business man .In order to make that kind of isk's in a day you have to play a lot of hours doing missions solo so you get all lp's you can get salvage and all . I trained up for this and if ccp dont roll it back it will just loose some nice supporters of the game and we are a hell lot in this business .....think not only what you have achived in the game but think that others might have found a better way .... And yes high sec lvl5's where not so commonly known to ppl that dose not means that there where a few i can insure you that i know more that 50 ppl that was doing them solo you just have to fly smart and i will not tell you how to do it in this pos. We had vnice setups that took a lot of thinking and reserch and this is the reason i am complaining ..............
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.06.03 14:52:00 - [59] I say CCP should remove all missions, so that all the softies leave EVE. EVE has become way too mainstream, CCPs goal must be too alienate as many players as possible in order to decrease subscription numbers - which in turn helps reduce lag for the 0.0 population. Once EVE has dropped to 1000 or so subscribers again, CCP has been successful. I for one applaud CCPs initiative to become a true underdog again.
Stevo76	Posted - 2010.06.03 18:48:00 - [60] Just waiting for the Highsec Agent quality to be nerfed now. Seems CCP want to hurt mission runners.



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