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Removal of learning skills?

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Xylopia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.06.11 01:48:00 - [1] I don't want to spam GD, but have to throw a Q. Is it true CCP is looking into ways of removing learning skills? If it is, what is CCP really thinking?
Komen Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.06.11 01:59:00 - [2] I haven't seen an official dev announcement about this. It's been a popular topic in 'how to retain more players' threads for a long time. If someone told you they were, that someone either has info I don't, or is mistaken.
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.06.11 02:35:00 - [3] i've heard that at a fanfest they admited that they were a bad idea, because new players do now want to spend the entire month training for things that do not help other than training faster, every other skill you get something out of it, such as reduced cap need or extra PG or a new ship to fly with the exception of learning skills.. honestly, remove them, refund the SP in the form of bonus speed. Not many people will miss it. -------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;)
Terrax Norik	Posted - 2010.06.11 03:17:00 - [4] If they remove the learning skills they should increase the base attributes to compensate. Any change that results in slower training than now would be a mistake. The genie is out of the bottle, no sense in trying to put it back.
Midori Tsu Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.11 03:19:00 - [5] Edited by: Midori Tsu on 11/06/2010 03:20:40 Originally by: Taxesarebad honestly, remove them, refund the SP in the form of bonus speed. Not many people will miss it. I'd rather have that 1.8m i trianed go straight into new skills, instead of a bonus to training time. Originally by: Terrax Norik If they remove the learning skills they should increase the base attributes to compensate. Any change that results in slower training than now would be a mistake. The genie is out of the bottle, no sense in trying to put it back. i'd say make it give the full bonus of the skills at 5, leave remaps to change the base attributes.
Fat Buddah	Posted - 2010.06.11 03:32:00 - [6] IMPLANTS!!
Midori Tsu Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.11 03:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Fat Buddah IMPLANTS!! never mind implants, they are what the skills should of been.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.06.11 04:18:00 - [8] Here is the official answer and a response to anyone else who complains about training learnign skills. No. HTFU. noobs have it easy as is with the 2x training timer. Back in my day you had to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could train the advanced ones. If you think this game doesnt cater to noobs, you have it sooooooo much easier than guys like me who started a few years ago. eve 4 years ago. CCP: here is a tutorial Me: cool i spend 4 hours and finished it now what? CCP: here is a velator Me: ok now what CCP: heres your parachute have fun in the wild pushes out fo the airplane into the amazon
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.06.11 04:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Here is the official answer and a response to anyone else who complains about training learnign skills. No. HTFU. noobs have it easy as is with the 2x training timer. Back in my day you had to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could train the advanced ones. If you think this game doesnt cater to noobs, you have it sooooooo much easier than guys like me who started a few years ago. eve 4 years ago. CCP: here is a tutorial Me: cool i spend 4 hours and finished it now what? CCP: here is a velator Me: ok now what CCP: heres your parachute have fun in the wild pushes out fo the airplane into the amazon /this. The 'hit' for training up the learning skills has been nerfed heavily to the point it takes less than two weeks to get them all at 4/4 if the player has some implants plugged in along with the 2x training time. Also if a new player can't figure out a training plan that lets them train for both the learning skills and also skill up his support skills and such to do fun things then they need to go ahead and biomass then gb2wow asap. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Marchocias + = +
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.06.11 06:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Xylopia I don't want to spam GD, but have to throw a Q. Is it true CCP is looking into ways of removing learning skills? If it is, what is CCP really thinking? What CCP thinking noone really knows, but I dont think learning skills will be removed. But yes, from what I understand, they regret adding it, but added is added, and I think they will leave it at that. Its not that it ruins the game in any way. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.06.11 06:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Originally by: Xylopia I don't want to spam GD, but have to throw a Q. Is it true CCP is looking into ways of removing learning skills? If it is, what is CCP really thinking? What CCP thinking noone really knows, but I dont think learning skills will be removed. But yes, from what I understand, they regret adding it, but added is added, and I think they will leave it at that. Its not that it ruins the game in any way. Everything else has support skills. So why not the skills themselves. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Marchocias + = +
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.06.11 06:44:00 - [12] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 11/06/2010 06:44:04 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Originally by: Xylopia I don't want to spam GD, but have to throw a Q. Is it true CCP is looking into ways of removing learning skills? If it is, what is CCP really thinking? What CCP thinking noone really knows, but I dont think learning skills will be removed. But yes, from what I understand, they regret adding it, but added is added, and I think they will leave it at that. Its not that it ruins the game in any way. Everything else has support skills. So why not the skills themselves. Hey, if it was up to me, they would definitely stay added to the game! I love skills, and more I got better it is! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Jenny Cameron	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:09:00 - [13] I'm all for removing them. I read that CCP is looking for the best way to get rid of them, there's a lot of options to do that. Also read here.
Tub Chil	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:26:00 - [14] If they increase base attributes and refund SP it's OK but they MUST increase base attributes. otherwise learning will be slow like hell
dexington	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:26:00 - [15] They really should be removed, it's one of the worst skills in any game i've tryed. If you play WOW your character gains levels and new spells and abilities become available to you, that's how most games do character progress. EVE is not like other games, when you start a character in EVE you start with using one month on traing skills that gives you absolutely zero new abilities or in any way makes your character more fun to play. ... u r wee todd id, u r sofa king wee todd id ...
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:36:00 - [16] Originally by: dexington They really should be removed, it's one of the worst skills in any game i've tryed. If you play WOW your character gains levels and new spells and abilities become available to you, that's how most games do character progress. EVE is not like other games, when you start a character in EVE you start with using one month on traing skills that gives you absolutely zero new abilities or in any way makes your character more fun to play. WoW dosen't level your character when you're on vacation or don't have time to play. Aside from that there's a crapload of other stuff you're like to grind in form of factions in order to proceed in that damn game. About as gamebreaking as learning skills. Spending your first month purely on learning skills is a newbie to newbie advice. Train a bit and then some skills in gunnery etc. to make the gameplay more fun for a while. Then proceed with learning. You don't lose alot by spending a day or 2 on some random skills.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:37:00 - [17] Originally by: dexington They really should be removed, it's one of the worst skills in any game i've tryed. If you play WOW your character gains levels and new spells and abilities become available to you, that's how most games do character progress. EVE is not like other games, when you start a character in EVE you start with using one month on traing skills that gives you absolutely zero new abilities or in any way makes your character more fun to play. EVE is not WOW, since it needs to be said. Instant gratification need not apply.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:49:00 - [18] Edited by: Tippia on 11/06/2010 07:54:20 Originally by: Xylopia Is it true CCP is looking into ways of removing learning skills? If it is, what is CCP really thinking? Yes. The problem is that it's very difficult to now, many years later, find a good balance between on the hand taking away skills people have spent time training and/or giving them for free to new players, and on the other hand creating a solution that's not a DB nightmare to implement and is fair to everyone. You can watch the latest statement on the matter here, as part of the "New Player experience" presentation from Fanfest 2009. By the looks and sounds of it, as soon as they figure out a good solution, the learning skills will die in a fire. I don't know if it's feasible from a DB standpoint, but the best suggestion I've heard so far is to simply tack 12pts onto everyone's attributes, set the new attribute minimum to 17, strip everyone of the SP used for learning skills and then use this nifty double-speed training feature to reimburse those SP (basically, calculate how much each SP char has in learning skills, set the "double bonus ends at x SP" to whatever you have now + that calculated SP value, and let everyone spend that training bonus on whatever they want). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
dexington	Posted - 2010.06.11 07:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Sanzorz Train a bit and then some skills in gunnery etc. to make the gameplay more fun for a while. Why not make it fun all the time? ... u r wee todd id, u r sofa king wee todd id ...
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate	Posted - 2010.06.11 08:17:00 - [20] Originally by: dexington Why not make it fun all the time? If you don't like pushing treacle up hill then you are in the wrong game.
Lord Wamphyri Amarr Starside Lost	Posted - 2010.06.11 08:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Here is the official answer and a response to anyone else who complains about training learnign skills. No. HTFU. noobs have it easy as is with the 2x training timer. Back in my day you had to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could train the advanced ones. If you think this game doesnt cater to noobs, you have it sooooooo much easier than guys like me who started a few years ago. eve 4 years ago. CCP: here is a tutorial Me: cool i spend 4 hours and finished it now what? CCP: here is a velator Me: ok now what CCP: heres your parachute have fun in the wild pushes out fo the airplane into the amazon Agreed! Nobody is forcing anybody to train the learning skills! Go train those gunnery / battleship skills straight away if you're that desperate to 'win' EVE... Just don't come whining on the forums a few months down the line about how it takes too long to train anything, and some mean pirate blew up your shiny Raven fitted with small pulse lasers.. There's more to this game than learning skills. My EVE Tattoo! My Second EVE Tattoo!
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.11 08:53:00 - [22] And no-one is 'forcing' you to train skills at all, just like no one is 'forcing' you to play eve at all. Learning skills dont add anything positive to the game and are just an additional stupid waiting period before you can train fun skills. And if you are comparing it to how it was 5 years ago you are just plain stupid. That was when other people werent 100M SP in front of you.
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:27:00 - [23] No, Learning stills is what you do if you want to plan ahead, when I started you only got basic learning skills and no implants, you had to decide how you where going to train. when they added the advanced ones the pre-requisites where basic ones level 5 - I suggest that they should of been level 4 then - which they did a long time later, now you get re-maps from the off, and training the basic ones to 4 takes no time, even the advanced ones to 3 is faster than you can worry about, if anyone suggests to a noob that they should train 5/5 then that should be considered griefing they should stay IMO --
Jenny Cameron	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:31:00 - [24] Originally by: RaTTuS No, Learning stills is what you do if you want to plan ahead, I though that getting EVEmon and remapping was planning ahead .. Silly me!!
Aerilis Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:34:00 - [25] ITT: Players with more than 50m skillpoints try to convince themselves CCP won't nerf learning skills and waste all their hard work
Shintai Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:35:00 - [26] Originally by: Xylopia I don't want to spam GD, but have to throw a Q. Is it true CCP is looking into ways of removing learning skills? If it is, what is CCP really thinking? I heard CCP gonna remove your account. True story! -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Xylopia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:47:00 - [27] Someone says somewhere about this "core" characteristics of EVE that is very static, unchanging, and very much the same from the beginning: real-time skill progressing, unfriendly UI, risk vs rewards (ok, this might not be the case) and few more. All I want to see from EVE after two and half years is the core stays the same all the way through no matter whatever wonky things CCP pulls out of their sleeve. TBH, from the release of Trinity, I see CCP lets this "core" of EVE chip away bit by bit. When CCP finally crosses a fine line such as removing learning skills, I don't think that only handful of peeps would become unhappy about it. So, please don't, for the sake of yours, CCP.
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Xylopia When CCP finally crosses a fine line such as removing learning skills, I don't think that only handful of peeps would become unhappy about it. Don't make me laugh. People are crying about everything all the time. Don't you read the fora? And learning skills or not - it doesn't even affect you 100 million SP+ players in the slightest way. Bring it on!
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Xylopia Someone says somewhere about this "core" characteristics of EVE that is very static, unchanging, and very much the same from the beginning: real-time skill progressing, unfriendly UI, risk vs rewards (ok, this might not be the case) and few more. All I want to see from EVE after two and half years is the core stays the same all the way through no matter whatever wonky things CCP pulls out of their sleeve. TBH, from the release of Trinity, I see CCP lets this "core" of EVE chip away bit by bit. When CCP finally crosses a fine line such as removing learning skills, I don't think that only handful of peeps would become unhappy about it. So, please don't, for the sake of yours, CCP. Wait, are you saying you want eve to have a crap UI and some other random stuff that is just terrible game design? What do learning skills add to the game? Nothing, they are just a time sink everyone has to waste time on.
Batolemaeus Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Aerilis ITT: Players with more than 50m skillpoints try to convince themselves CCP won't nerf learning skills and waste all their hard work It's not work. Learnings are an example of fake difficulty. Since they add nothing to the game but filler I wouldn't have a problem if CCP finally decided on a good strategy for a way out.

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