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Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
95
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Posted - 2011.09.22 22:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
.... is this accurate?
i was linked this calculator that shows component prices, etc and it was saying more things the invention+build is unprofitable, but some of it's prices were grotesquely wrong when compared to eve-central (despite this tool claiming it came off eve central).
so.. is it worth while to do invention? what about invention then building with those BPCs?
or are there just too many of those damn impossible to acquire T2 BPOs in game? Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
7
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Posted - 2011.09.22 23:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do your homework, sit down and punch in the numbers and see. Some stuff is profitable, some isn't.
And, no, T2 BPOs aren't an issue in most cases. The only items where they make up the majority are very low traffic items anyways. |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
3
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Posted - 2011.09.22 23:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, invention is profitable. I do it every day. It all depends on what you are looking at, your skills, and your resources. Some items are profitable, some are not.
I'm not sure what calculator you are using but mine uses EVE Central as do several others. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! https://sourceforge.net/projects/eveiph/ |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
95
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Posted - 2011.09.22 23:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
my industrial has essentially every invention/research skill to IV (or V .. for things like Research, Metallurgy, etc) or will soon.
Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 00:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Then you could probably find something profitable to invent. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! https://sourceforge.net/projects/eveiph/ |
Brock Nelson
14
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Posted - 2011.09.23 04:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Great...another "hand me the answer plox" thread.
No, invention is NOT profitable. Period
Anybody that says otherwise is an idiot and obviously does not do invention and is probably a holder of T2 BPO who is looking to have his competitors lose isk. |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 05:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tell me again why your direct competitors would try and keep you into their business niche please?
Don't do invention. Hell, just buy t2 BPCs and MF them because manufacturing is 'the bottleneck' |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.09.23 07:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Denidil wrote:.... is this accurate?
Yes.
Invention itself is very rarely profitable.
What can be profitable (if you do it right) is building T2 items from invented BPCs - thing is you usually need to make those BPCs yourself.
Note of caution - what was profitable yesterday is not always profitable tomorrow.
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beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 10:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Funny thing is that some of the least profitable items are the ones that can ONLY be made by invention.
Invention is like building T1 gear now I think. Some things are really profitable but sell really slowly, some things are just profitable but you can sell by the bucket load, and some things are just better left alone.
If you do your homework and find the right item and sell it in the right market you will make money. If you blindly invent the first thing you have a BPO for the likelihood is that you will lose money. Don't put all your isk into one item, spread it over a few so if one takes a nosedive (and they will on occasion) you wont be left short.
I spent a long time looking at lots of items and doing lots of calculations to find out which ones would work for me. However, if you cant be bothered doing the work then just invent Warp Cores Stabilizers, Eos's and Eagle's, oh and Hyena's (if you make any money I want 5% commission).
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VaMei
Meafi Corp
18
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Posted - 2011.09.23 10:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Denidil wrote:.... is this accurate? Never take a competitor's opinion at face value.
The best hint I can offer is to do your research and build a spreadsheet to track ALL of your input costs, account for your expected success rate, and check the competition's prices. Some things are profitable to invent and build, others may be profitable to invent OR build, others aren't worth looking at; and it'll change over time as input costs, competition, and demand change.
T2 BPOs are rarely the cause when items are not profitable, eg. Command ships are generaly not profitable, but BPOs have nothing to do with it. |
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RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
112
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Posted - 2011.09.23 13:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
yeah just invent 425 railguns http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
95
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
RaTTuS wrote:yeah just invent 425 railguns
but nobody flys gallente, because they suck
oh wait... i'm gallente... ****
:P Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Vagizzle Schrimshank
Satash Innovations
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
I contract a guy to invent my T2 BPC for me, it's totally none profitable and incapable of producing enough profit to plex my PVP account and put him up with a reasonable cashflow. |
Zimmy Zeta
Humanidyne Inc.
5
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Posted - 2011.09.24 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
OK, here comes the truth, just to troll the other inventors in here:
Invention is profitable if you invent and build the right things. Don't bother with T2 ships, you will lose money and why people are still producing them and keep selling them below raw mineral value is beyond me. Stick to the stuff that people frequently use, like ammo and modules. Regarding modules, you should favor those that are commonly used multiple times on a single ship- like weapons or weapon upgrades, just check your market interface and see what sells. The rest depends on where you plan to sell your stuff. In deep highsec ppl will be more interested in modules for industrial ships or for typical PVE ships (Raven, I'm looking at you!). Closer to low sec there is always a constant demand for smaller, gankier modules. (like our beloved 150 mm AC II, for example). Next important thing for you is in order to keep it profitable, you should produce as many commodities needed for the T2 BPC yourself. You can get some via PI, others ("ship components" like nanomechanical microprocessors or graviton pulse generators) you can buy BPOs and research them very quickly to 100% material efficiency. You still need to buy the moon mining materials like fullerides for example from the markets- it will cost you a fortune, but usually you can make about 50-150% profit regarding that investment.
Hope that helped. |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
4
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Posted - 2011.09.24 21:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Next important thing for you is in order to keep it profitable, you should produce as many commodities needed for the T2 BPC yourself.
Good advice but the above. Maybe for profits you want to build everything yourself, but this isn't true for time spent. One can make more isk/hour if they analyze the market and products more closely. I can make 50-60 mil from making a freighter but the isk per hour is the same or lower than many other items. Factor in building or buying the items, your IPH varies and can be better or worse.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! https://sourceforge.net/projects/eveiph/ |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
5
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Posted - 2011.09.24 22:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Once you find some stuff you want to build, look at its build times of them. Yes you might get more profit per unit from one item but as said above it might take two days to build, and another might give you less profit per unit but you can build it in ten hours. Also building everything need for manufacture (T1 modules/ships, components, PI stuff) can increase your profit but it can sometimes mean it takes you longer to build said item so your turnover is slower, plus building the parts takes up slots which could mean you cant build as many of the T2 items at once.
Basically I'm trying to say "look at everything from every angle" and there is a lot to be said for simplicity over profit. Though if you are looking to min/max then yeah build everything yourself. Depending on my work schedule depended on whether I built everything or I bought from the market, sometimes I just didn't have the time or the patience. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
98
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Posted - 2011.09.24 23:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:OK, here comes the truth, just to troll the other inventors in here:
Invention is profitable if you invent and build the right things. Don't bother with T2 ships, you will lose money and why people are still producing them and keep selling them below raw mineral value is beyond me. Stick to the stuff that people frequently use, like ammo and modules. Regarding modules, you should favor those that are commonly used multiple times on a single ship- like weapons or weapon upgrades, just check your market interface and see what sells. The rest depends on where you plan to sell your stuff. In deep highsec ppl will be more interested in modules for industrial ships or for typical PVE ships (Raven, I'm looking at you!). Closer to low sec there is always a constant demand for smaller, gankier modules. (like our beloved 150 mm AC II, for example). Next important thing for you is in order to keep it profitable, you should produce as many commodities needed for the T2 BPC yourself. You can get some via PI, others ("ship components" like nanomechanical microprocessors or graviton pulse generators) you can buy BPOs and research them very quickly to 100% material efficiency. You still need to buy the moon mining materials like fullerides for example from the markets- it will cost you a fortune, but usually you can make about 50-150% profit regarding that investment.
Hope that helped.
yes, thank you. i've already got all three chars on my industrial account doing PI to produce POS fuels - they're producing excess, but that excess should more than pay for the stuff i have to buy off the market
i'll look into buying the BPOs for the T2 components of components i start building. Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
7
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Posted - 2011.09.25 00:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:Funny thing is that some of the least profitable items are the ones that can ONLY be made by invention.
This is probably about the only truthful statement in this thread.
I always love to point this out in all the "nerf T2 BPO" whine threads.
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Trush
Xorpor Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 10:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:Invention is profitable if you invent and build the right things. Don't bother with T2 ships, you will lose money and why people are still producing them and keep selling them below raw mineral value is beyond me. Stick to the stuff that people frequently use, like ammo and modules. Regarding modules, you should favor those that are commonly used multiple times on a single ship- like weapons or weapon upgrades, just check your market interface and see what sells. The rest depends on where you plan to sell your stuff. In deep highsec ppl will be more interested in modules for industrial ships or for typical PVE ships (Raven, I'm looking at you!). Closer to low sec there is always a constant demand for smaller, gankier modules. (like our beloved 150 mm AC II, for example). Next important thing for you is in order to keep it profitable, you should produce as many commodities needed for the T2 BPC yourself. You can get some via PI, others ("ship components" like nanomechanical microprocessors or graviton pulse generators) you can buy BPOs and research them very quickly to 100% material efficiency. You still need to buy the moon mining materials like fullerides for example from the markets- it will cost you a fortune, but usually you can make about 50-150% profit regarding that investment.
There goes the gravy-train.
Some additional tidbits, certain T2 components, such as Thermonuclear Triggers for projectile weapons are a pain to keep up stock on if producing yourself. Their build times are horrific. Same goes for Tesseracts for energy vamps/low slot shield mods. So if you can find a deal on them do not hesitate to pay a margin over what you could produce them for yourself.
Exploration is horrifically more profitable per effort (yea yea I'm being subjective here) than the invent/produce t2module scheme unless you are tirelessly meticulous in how you queue up your jobs. Two t2 characters can get you in front of the computer quite literally once every 30 minutes if you stagger incorrectly and/or mix batches of different modules.
Lastly I hit 2 of 3 Vargur -1/-1 attempts, netted over 100m. Not taking my chances again but thought I'd share since the premise of this thread is warranting. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 11:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
I dunno what the people in the blueprints channel are on...
I hadn't been playing Eve for the better part of 3 years when I started playing again 3 months ago. My total assets consisted of flet fitted Megathron, a tech 1 fitted mission Raven and around 12 million isk.
I decided to make money in industry and got about a 100mil starting capital from begging around. I focused exclusively on inventing and building from invented BPCs and now, 3 months later, I pay for 2 accounts with plexes, have a faction fitted Tengu that I do lowsec exploration with, a Freighter, both tech II haulers and about 2 billion isk tied up in market orders and components. Granted, about 500-700mil of this comes from grinding some missions and LP rewards, but the VAST majority of it is from just inventing and building stuff.
So ye, inventing is really, really not profitable. At all.
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Trush
Xorpor Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 11:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm curious Shayla, how many accounts do you have producing if you don't mind sharing? My two cannot even come close to turning out 2bn net a month. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 14:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have 25 factory slots between 2 accounts. 10 of those are permanently take by tech II missiles. |
Osunn
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 19:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just a comment here. I've been doing t2 invention/production since it came out. Some items are profitable most aren't. In response to the people saying bpos don't affect prices they are wrong. Any missle, ammo or Crystal bpo will produce much cheaper items than can be invented. Partly due to datacores but mostly due to the fact that they will always have much better me. So the materials cost is a lot lower. This IS reflected in most market hubs. You cannot break even at materials cost with invention. Advanced moon reactions are expensive and if you can use fewer materials when doing bulk manufacturing then you can offer cheaper prices and the bpo owners do. I've been working in this market for several years and there has never been a change in the sales or build costs of the mentioned items that would favor invention. Just tired of the bpos don't affect market value mantra.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 19:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is certainly true for ships, but most modules have 99% of their materials in the extra category, meaning negative ME doesn't affect them. As long as the market demand is bigger than whatever any existing, active BPOs can produce, you can make a profit off of those. Of course BPO holders make (slightly) *more* profit per unit, but that doesn't affect your margins in the slightest.
As for ammo, I get my largest margins on ammo even though I need 50% more materials than BPO holders. The demand for ammo is vastly larger than the amount BPOs can produce because ammo takes forever to build. Maybe crystals are a different story, but I can tell you missiles and projectile ammo are top money makers.
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Osunn
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 20:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
It is possible to make money. There is a simple test. Go to a market hub. Pick a t2 item - ammo, missles or crystals. Look at the cost. Now go to contracts and pull up the t2 bpc and look at manufacturing. Calculate your materials cost and figure production costs. This is ignoring your costs for invention itself but thats nominal. Now compare them. Done. |
Trush
Xorpor Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 23:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote: This is ignoring your costs for invention itself but thats nominal.
You may want to restate this in another way. Invention can ruin you if you aren't paying attention to it. |
cap Mal
Defense Advanced Research Program Agency
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 17:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nobody likes competition... nine times out of ten in this game if someone is telling you not to do something they are trying to cover their bottom line. If someone tells you to do something they're setting a trap for you.
tl/dr?
Don't invent. It's a bad idea. Convo me ingame and I'll show you how to make money at a nice quiet low sec planet. Bring a rookie ship filled with all your most valuable BPO's. |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.09.26 18:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Denidil,
It should come as no surprise to you that a lot of posts in this topic are outright lies.
Invention + building is profitable for some items, it is not profitable for some other. Which is which you have to figure out yourself, it's not hard at all. |
Cadman Weyland
Irn Bru Crew
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 20:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hey Shayla, ive just started playing again after almost 4 years.
I`ll have to mail ya in game and pick yer brains on Invention, got a lot of bpos i could tinker with. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 20:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hey Cad :)
Lots of ex-MLM returning it seems :D. |
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