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Jove disease caused by sleepers?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:17:00 - [1] Edited by: Eventy One on 06/07/2010 16:19:58 In this post, CCP Dropbear all but says players have not yet unraveled the full story of wh space. At first I thought perhaps he was merely being cryptic - but then I looked at the evidence. Pottsey noticed that there were alternate sources of in-game information about the sleepers in wormhole space, new in-game mechanics for learning about the backstory. There apparently was purpose behind what was revealed (such as the meaning of sleeper words). In this thread, Terrus Valkin noticed an atypical cosmic anomaly called a quarantine zone that produced unusual notices in local (recall that even players are not visible in local in wh space). In the image of the quarantine zone that Terrus Valkin posted you can clearly see a gas cloud emanating from the sleeper structure. From the novel Empyrean age, we know the Jove were interested in the Jove Gate. We also know from Pottsey's work in wh space the sleepers were to. Recently Sansha's nation was found to have captured a Jove ship in the gateway entrance to the Eve gate system (New Eden). All of this makes me wonder if the Jove weren't first at war with the sleepers, or the sleepers responsible for the Jovian disease in the first place. (This is, of course, pure speculation without further input from players - but it is interesting speculation!) Is anybody else working on this?
Plumpy McPudding Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:18:00 - [2] Places finger under your nose Does this smell like butt to you?
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:27:00 - [3] Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Places finger under your nose Does this smell like butt to you? And other bodily odours, I'd rather not say, or else your pvp buddies might start thinking differently of you. Please troll elsewhere.
Telvani	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:30:00 - [4] came expecting troll thread, may or may not have been disappointed as I didnt actually read it. Good idea , gove are really powerful, so are sleepers (sort of)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:31:00 - [5] More like the Talocans, or whoever invented the sleepers. The sleepers are just protector drones; something else is afoot. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:37:00 - [6] My hypothesis was that the Jove just engineered themselves to the point where all primal motivators ceased to function. This will lead to terminal depression should a lack of other purpose and motivation appear. By the time this was discovered, going back to older genetic makeups was no longer possible or the data was destroyed in some incident or another. Now the Jove are trying to figure out which parts of the genetic makeup of the lesser races is actually representing those motivators, so they can put them back into their own makeup again. For this they gave the empires capsuleer technology which will allow the Jove to monitor and compare a large amount of very ambitious individuals, including complete brain scans and the subjects full DNA. Once they managed to cure themselves, they may or may not wipe the lab clean and do something else with the newly acquired free space. Or they are trying to use the Rogue Drones to achieve complete transhuman ascension by uploading their brains into anorganic lifeforms using lost sleeper technology, who were, among other things, masters of virtualization. Would explain why they intervened in such a decisive manner in the events leading to the Seyllin incident and the opening of the wormholes. Considering some Sansha homeworld got blasted during that event, it's not surprising that the Sansha are up to something around that matter. Either seeking vengeance or they happen to have found out something of significance during or after the event that they are now using to gain power over the empires, which by itself is a act of vengeance, considering who destroyed Sansha's Nation back in the days. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ... What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space? Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable)
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ... What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space? Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable) I believe there is in fact a story to be discovered, but sadly said story will turn out to be undiscoverable and open up a bundle of new questions, some of which we may never know the answer to.
Stu Pendisdick Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:47:00 - [9] Warning! SPOILER ALERT! What isn't common knowledge is that there is a wormhole entrance to Jove space. It is in a C6 wormhole currently held by one of the large alliances in the game. So far, it is the only known route, and said alliance is keeping it under tight wraps for very obvious reasons. Nothing is available in the Jove hole.............yet.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ... What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space? Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable) I think it's not only a matter of finding all puzzle pieces, which we may or may not have found, but also in putting them together the right way. Considering that we don't know how the picture is supposed to look like, the latter may be the more challenging effort in this whole story. -------- All I want is a better mankind.

Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Stu Pendis**** Warning! SPOILER ALERT! What isn't common knowledge is that there is a wormhole entrance to Jove space. It is in a C6 wormhole currently held by one of the large alliances in the game. So far, it is the only known route, and said alliance is keeping it under tight wraps for very obvious reasons. Nothing is available in the Jove hole.............yet. I was called in to explore that WH due to perfect astrometrics skills, and my well known association with Magellan Exploration and Survey (Eve's only corp dedicated to finding Jove space). It turns out said WH is actually the image backdrop, of a blackhole system. There are many blackhole systems in C6 wh space. That is why it current goes no-where.
Squat Hardpeck State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:02:00 - [12] I crafted a ship capable of going through this wormhole and into Jove space. I lost it for many a year until one day, out in the deep depths of space, it miraculously reappeared. I traveled for months reaching the now derelict ship, but what I discovered was horrifying. All the crew was murdered in such a grotesque fashion it makes my stomach churn just pondering it. Upon checking the ship's logs to ascertain exactly what occurred on this ship, it turned out the portal this ship jumped through went to an alternate dimension. A place of torture, death, and hell. The ship then took on a life of its own, as if it were alive. Doors would open and close by themselves and lights would turn on and off. A figure would stare at me out of the corner of my eye, but whenever I turned to look, it was gone. The ship was gunning for me. It wanted to bring me into its fold. I had to get out, or I was going to die. I overloaded the ship's core and planted charges throughout its hull. I barely escaped with my life. This memory, this horrible memory that will stay with me forever is a testament to what the urge of discovery and exploration will take you. No one goes to Jove. Nobody ever makes it out alive.
Ascendic Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Squat Hardpeck I crafted a ship capable of going through this wormhole and into Jove space. I lost it for many a year until one day, out in the deep depths of space, it miraculously reappeared. I traveled for months reaching the now derelict ship, but what I discovered was horrifying. All the crew was murdered in such a grotesque fashion it makes my stomach churn just pondering it. Upon checking the ship's logs to ascertain exactly what occurred on this ship, it turned out the portal this ship jumped through went to an alternate dimension. A place of torture, death, and hell. The ship then took on a life of its own, as if it were alive. Doors would open and close by themselves and lights would turn on and off. A figure would stare at me out of the corner of my eye, but whenever I turned to look, it was gone. The ship was gunning for me. It wanted to bring me into its fold. I had to get out, or I was going to die. I overloaded the ship's core and planted charges throughout its hull. I barely escaped with my life. This memory, this horrible memory that will stay with me forever is a testament to what the urge of discovery and exploration will take you. No one goes to Jove. Nobody ever makes it out alive. Your ship did not happen to be called "Event Horizon" by chance did it?
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk on 06/07/2010 17:08:57 Originally by: Squat Hardpeck I crafted a ship capable of going through this wormhole and into Jove space. I lost it for many a year until one day, out in the deep depths of space, it miraculously reappeared. I traveled for months reaching the now derelict ship, but what I discovered was horrifying. All the crew was murdered in such a grotesque fashion it makes my stomach churn just pondering it. Upon checking the ship's logs to ascertain exactly what occurred on this ship, it turned out the portal this ship jumped through went to an alternate dimension. A place of torture, death, and hell. The ship then took on a life of its own, as if it were alive. Doors would open and close by themselves and lights would turn on and off. A figure would stare at me out of the corner of my eye, but whenever I turned to look, it was gone. The ship was gunning for me. It wanted to bring me into its fold. I had to get out, or I was going to die. I overloaded the ship's core and planted charges throughout its hull. I barely escaped with my life. This memory, this horrible memory that will stay with me forever is a testament to what the urge of discovery and exploration will take you. No one goes to Jove. Nobody ever makes it out alive. Event horizon [Edit] ^^ Beat me too it
Illwill Jill Gallente Nifelhem	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:13:00 - [15] It came back abandoned, but it didn't come back alone.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:38:00 - [16] Move to RP area, or pics or didn't happen.
Metalcali	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:43:00 - [17] It's topics and possibilities like this that EVE truly needs to expand further on. Of course, people don't want more carebear/highsec stuff, but the slight chances to discover puzzles and small back stories in exploration sites and wormholes would just add bigger better level to this wonderful game. Naturally, once puzzles are solved it kinda loses it's mystique, but the rush to discover these rare parts of eve lore would be very worth it.
Messoroz	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Metalcali It's topics and possibilities like this that EVE truly needs to expand further on. Of course, people don't want more carebear/highsec stuff, but the slight chances to discover puzzles and small back stories in exploration sites and wormholes would just add bigger better level to this wonderful game. Naturally, once puzzles are solved it kinda loses it's mystique, but the rush to discover these rare parts of eve lore would be very worth it. See the really scary forum called Intergallatic Summit. No really, it scares me with all those rping lunatics in there.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Move to RP area, or pics or didn't happen. If we weren't talking Out of Game - I'd agree, but we're not. The discussion is entirely OOC, out of Game.
Metalcali	Posted - 2010.07.06 18:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Messoroz Originally by: Metalcali It's topics and possibilities like this that EVE truly needs to expand further on. Of course, people don't want more carebear/highsec stuff, but the slight chances to discover puzzles and small back stories in exploration sites and wormholes would just add bigger better level to this wonderful game. Naturally, once puzzles are solved it kinda loses it's mystique, but the rush to discover these rare parts of eve lore would be very worth it. See the really scary forum called Intergallatic Summit. No really, it scares me with all those rping lunatics in there. Go there often, just commenting on more things in game than on the forums.

Something Random Gallente The Barrow Boys	Posted - 2010.07.06 18:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Metalcali It's topics and possibilities like this that EVE truly needs to expand further on. Of course, people don't want more carebear/highsec stuff, but the slight chances to discover puzzles and small back stories in exploration sites and wormholes would just add bigger better level to this wonderful game. Naturally, once puzzles are solved it kinda loses it's mystique, but the rush to discover these rare parts of eve lore would be very worth it. I agree with you. COSMOS does a fair job of throwing 'quests' out to you as a capsuleer. You can forage and try to find vague hints as you go along and sometimes just need help to complete a mission arm. This interests me, i have deliberately left some of them open to me so i can get the 'hit' at low points. What i would like to see is more oddities to seek out. So if wormhole space has some secrets we have yet to discover i would like them to be secrets that had an actual finish that wasnt merely a hole of no content 'yet'. IMO the COSMOS side of things could get expanded a little now, and there is some perfect real estate. Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm: Aint that right?
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.07.06 18:40:00 - [22] It was explicitly satted in the beginning of EVE that the Jovians caused the disease themselves. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.07.06 18:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Ghoest It was explicitly satted in the beginning of EVE that the Jovians caused the disease themselves. Pff. Amarrian propaganda. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Salria Usenheart	Posted - 2010.07.06 19:10:00 - [24] Jove disease was caused by them modifying themselves to the point where they lost control of their basic instincts, it still effects them to this day. Sleepers as far as we know were designed by the Talocan race. Human species werent the first in this part of the universe, we dont know if how much was known about these ancient races before the collapse of the Eve Gate, but we do know that Joves knew about wormholes and t3 tech long before the 4 playable races did, as they survived the collapse of the eve gate, and recovered quicker and already had an ancient functioning gate system to use instead of having to design one from a broken one or wreckage and so advanced much quicker.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 19:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Salria Usenheart Jove disease was caused by them modifying themselves to the point where they lost control of their basic instincts, it still effects them to this day. Sleepers as far as we know were designed by the Talocan race. Human species werent the first in this part of the universe, we dont know if how much was known about these ancient races before the collapse of the Eve Gate, but we do know that Joves knew about wormholes and t3 tech long before the 4 playable races did, as they survived the collapse of the eve gate, and recovered quicker and already had an ancient functioning gate system to use instead of having to design one from a broken one or wreckage and so advanced much quicker. What secrets then, do you suspect the sleepers are harbouring?
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.07.06 19:52:00 - [26] This is interesting but we don't know what exactly happened. We do know that there were 5 predecessor races Jove being the only true ones still around. Talocan - drones around Sleeper - drones around Yang-Jung - nothing known Takmahl - nothing known. Jove - still around. Though I think the Jove disease was some left over combination of biological weapons and too much genetic mutations.
Salria Usenheart	Posted - 2010.07.06 20:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Salria Usenheart on 06/07/2010 20:16:31 Edited by: Salria Usenheart on 06/07/2010 20:10:51 Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Though I think the Jove disease was some left over combination of biological weapons and too much genetic mutations. Na Jove disease was that they modified themselves too much and destroyed their basic instincts and now a high percentage of their population fall into depression and die within 20 days or so. Theres actually an image of a Sleeper cruiser playing with rogue drones in kspace somewhere, we find the remains of parts of the talocan and sleeper races in wh space, but we are only seeing a few systems in their galaxy, perhaps parts of their population survived in areas we cant access cause the gate system in their space doesnt exist or was destroyed / quarantined.
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2010.07.06 20:28:00 - [28] Huh, that's the last thing I expected to see when I checked in today. It's not fame but I'll take it.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.07.06 20:34:00 - [29] The speculating in those threads has no basis in the known back story. The ancient races came through the worm hole from Earth. They had a huge war using WH weapons and came close extinguishing each other and all life as well. The apparent winners where the Jovians and what we call sleepers retreated into wormholes. The sleepers probably didn't call them selves that, and it's unclear if from the prime fiction if who they are the remnants of which culture. It could be the previous-history of one current empires or one of the lost ancient races. The Jovians develop the younger races through nurturing them. (Obviously inspired by the Vorlons from B5) The Sleepers agents of chaos and conflict, which is why they created the rogue drones. (Obviously inspired by the Shadows from B5) The remaining ancient races are obviously inspired by various ancient Earth Cultures. Talocan (Aztecs), Takhaml (India) and Yan Jung (China) and obviously being held in reserve for when the sleepers become stale.
Ascendic Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.06 20:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Illwill Jill It came back abandoned, but it didn't come back alone. DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN

Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.07.06 21:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Wyke Mossari The Sleepers agents of chaos and conflict, which is why they created the rogue drones. (Obviously inspired by the Shadows from B5) Umm Im pretty sure the Gallente created the rogue drones. Someone needs to check the chronicles, but I remember reading the gallente were putting more intelligent AI into their drones then one day ooops, rebellion! Why do you think most of the drones look like dominixes?
Saul Dhampir Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.07.06 21:38:00 - [32] Interesting. On examining a number of Talocan structures a few references are made to what look like holding facilities, suggesting either prison or medical. I had been thinking that perhaps the Talocan social offshoot of humanity had based itself upon slavery, perhaps even more so than the modern Amarr. However this does suggest medical facilities of some kind. As a side thought, perhaps they where seeking to cure the Jove?
Probing Sam	Posted - 2010.07.06 21:44:00 - [33] Spoiler alert Sleepers are the first jove empire....

CCP Dropbear	Posted - 2010.07.06 22:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ... What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space? Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable) I think it's not only a matter of finding all puzzle pieces, which we may or may not have found, but also in putting them together the right way. Considering that we don't know how the picture is supposed to look like, the latter may be the more challenging effort in this whole story. Indeed.

Salria Usenheart	Posted - 2010.07.06 22:12:00 - [35] Edited by: Salria Usenheart on 06/07/2010 22:16:24 Originally by: Probing Sam Spoiler alert Sleepers are the first jove empire.... Nope, backstory states they both had space based empires during the 12000 years before the current races regained space flight. We know there was a war, Joves won. Some sort of bioplague is suggested due to quarantine zones, or something that irradiated entire solar systems (perhaps the WH weapons were that damaging). The "sleepers" seem to have gone into cryostasis to preserve the remains of their race with sleepers left to guard them but somewhere in the past 20k years something went wrong, they didnt revive or something and all thats left is the drones guarding the remains of their installations, even after the 1st Jove Empire fell after the Shrouded times.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.06 23:06:00 - [36] Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 06/07/2010 23:11:24 I haven't had much experience with sleepers myself, but reading these threads and looking at the screenshots provided I think a fair reconstruction of what may have happened is possible... Probably others have arrived to my same conclusions, and one guy in one of the old threads pretty much said what I'm going to say (though since that thread is old as noah, it's perhaps worthwhile to post my ideas anyway). The Quarantine Zone offers quite a lot of info for us. For instance it tells us very clearly that the Sleepers were not always drones: http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Oruze_Enclave_DIR.jpg Otherwise the residential blocks wouldn't be needed. Also, if Oruze means something akin to "mansion", it's pretty clear that the Oruze Enclave basically is the "residential quarter" of this complex. I think it's interesting that residential quarters are sided with possibly high energy labs (which though seemed all based on getting energy from a star). The Medical Enclave is even more interesting: http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Medical_Enclave_DIR.jpg We have the normal facilities any hospital has (triage, emergency...), but a good FOUR different quarantine zones, one of which spans a lot of sectors. This spells something very clearly: a pandemic was in effect. Possibly, 4 different pandemics. Or rather, 4 different strains of the same virus, evolving from strain A, to B, to the highly infective C and finally (I guess, from the single sector compared to the previous entire blocks) the very lethal strain X. This smells to me like a bioengineered virus, with the purposes of biological warfare and apparently aimed at strict genocide. Which brings us to: The Biogenetics Research Enclave: http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Research_Enclave_BioGenetics_DIR.jpg It appears that the Sleeper's precursor race was very interested in studying cryogenics and its application to humans. The animal cryogenics seems like the first step in the research for human cryogenic stasis. The student classes seem to indicate that the interest in this field of study was heavy. The de-animation genealogy escapes me. It's a library as well, so it seems that the field wasn't new at the time, or at least there was already literature on the subject. Still, I can't make any sensible hypothesis about this. Anyway this, along with the Sleeper name, seems to indicate that this race went into willing stasis to escape (or slow down) the effects of a devastating disease. The two genetics research are very interesting to analyze what may have become of the race (and what were its plans): http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Research_Enclave_VirtualGenetics_DIR.jpg http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Research_Enclave_TheoreticalGenetics_DIR.jpg The Virtual genetics seems to indicate that some kind of study was under way, something that possibly tried to integrate a human brain (perhaps a non-conscious or non-functional one) into a virtual intelligence. Or perhaps (maybe it's even more likely) they were simply trying to reverse engineer brain functions from what they had available, to create some kind of artificial intelligence. There are hints that this intelligence was to have a specific objective, something probably much more complex than just "defending" the place. Both the non-natural teleology and virtual mutation point to that. Emergent systems seem to be the way they tried to accomplish that. The Theoretical Genetics enclave further works on this, putting the emphasis on data generation and agent collaboration, with genetic algorithms and neural networks. Also, the intelligence was to be self replicating (proliferation statistical analysis suggests this, though it may point to the proliferation of the disease, as it is cited as a "news item" in the Comm Enclave )
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.06 23:07:00 - [37] Reserved
Winters Chill Amarr Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.07.06 23:30:00 - [38] Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:34:51 Originally by: Wyke Mossari The speculating in those threads has no basis in the known back story. The ancient races came through the worm hole from Earth. They had a huge war using WH weapons and came close extinguishing each other and all life as well. The apparent winners where the Jovians and what we call sleepers retreated into wormholes. The sleepers probably didn't call them selves that, and it's unclear if from the prime fiction if who they are the remnants of which culture. It could be the previous-history of one current empires or one of the lost ancient races. The Jovians develop the younger races through nurturing them. (Obviously inspired by the Vorlons from B5) The Sleepers agents of chaos and conflict, which is why they created the rogue drones. (Obviously inspired by the Shadows from B5) The remaining ancient races are obviously inspired by various ancient Earth Cultures. Talocan (Aztecs), Takhaml (India) and Yan Jung (China) and obviously being held in reserve for when the sleepers become stale. Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct. Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it. The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.06 23:42:00 - [39] Originally by: Winters Chill Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct. Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it. The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth. There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter).
Winters Chill Amarr Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.07.06 23:56:00 - [40] Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:59:15 Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:57:26 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Originally by: Winters Chill Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct. Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it. The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth. There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter). You do have to actually read the mission blurbs to get the stuff, and who does that :P I tried looking at eve mission websites for the raw text of ancient race related missions but most are incomplete. The legacy items from COSMOS also offer clues. You could collect the info on evelopedia under the heading: Origin of <Ancient Race> or something like that. I like your precursor Idea. Im of the opinion the sleepers have ascended to or at least "recorded" themselves onto a virtual universe datanet/matrix that exists in a FTL computer network.

Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:00:00 - [41] These "lost" background aspects to the game are wonderful to read and debate. While we players can only speculate, as strange as it sounds, the various small pieces hinted at throughout the years seem plausible to eventually reveal a whole picture of ancient history. Hopefully CCP will reveal fragments, throw curves, and outright contradict past aspects for years to come. As for my small addition, I wonder if our ancient ancestors overall were quite large in bodily design. Every now and then there will be a mission or something other where you need to explore an old ship called a shuttle that makes your battleship appear insignificant...

CCP Dropbear	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter). You might be surprised by how much other players have already started down that path of archiving and collecting. For Sleeper-specific information gathering, I might suggest this project by Pottsey, although it seems the thread of Ghost Hunter's linked in the OP has sort of usurped it (my bad, Potts...). In more general terms, there's the "Lorebook". There's also multiple forums that archive this sort of information. The chatsubo forum (the older of the two prominent RP forums) has a wealth of information in its Bookshelf section, just as the newer Backstage forum has in its CCP Public Library. Happy reading and contributing, if that's your kinda bag, baby.

Darth Kilth Minmatar DRAMA Inc	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:14:00 - [43] The problem with the known history of EVE is that not much is known, as obviously the victory writes the history and if there was a war the Jove won. Taking this it would mean that their history might be completely different then the reality or that of the 'sleepers'. Also lot's of history usually get's lost over the ages. And even if the Jove still possess their complete, unaltered and unbiased history they will not share it with us. Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:34:00 - [44] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Gecko O'Bac There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter). You might be surprised by how much other players have already started down that path of archiving and collecting. For Sleeper-specific information gathering, I might suggest this project by Pottsey, although it seems the thread of Ghost Hunter's linked in the OP has sort of usurped it (my bad, Potts...). In more general terms, there's the "Lorebook". There's also multiple forums that archive this sort of information. The chatsubo forum (the older of the two prominent RP forums) has a wealth of information in its Bookshelf section, just as the newer Backstage forum has in its CCP Public Library. Happy reading and contributing, if that's your kinda bag, baby. Thanks for sharing, though it kinda reinforces my PoV :P Scattered information is useless information :D I'll try to make some sense of it all between one gang and the other
Iree	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:35:00 - [45] I wonder if the possible pandemic is related to the Kyonoke pit virus. Interestingly the Sansha have been active in wh space and what do you know, this turns up http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1343639
Salria Usenheart	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Winters Chill Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:34:51 Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct. Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it. The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth. The Takmahl arent actually an ancient race, its been an issue with the calling them the ancient races, some parts screw up the eve timeline. As far as we can tell it was sometime after the amarr expanded to near the Azaz const, but before blood raiders were formed around around a few thousand years ago, but not truly ancient, but ancient in relation to when players step in, but not as ancient as the Jove or Sleepers (and presumable for the talocan's as well)
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Iree I wonder if the possible pandemic is related to the Kyonoke pit virus. Interestingly the Sansha have been active in wh space and what do you know, this turns up http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1343639 THIS is the relevant chronicle for the kyonoke pit virus... Well it's quite interesting in fact... Its lethality seems to conform with my hypotesis for strain X, while the different behaviour in some cases would explain perhaps for strain C, with A and B being possibly first stages in the evolution of the virus. Also, since it attacks in both strain C and X the brain, it'd explain the research lab on neurodegenerative illnesses in the quarantine zone complex. Still, if the virus was artificial in origin, how did it get to that mining station in the first place? Even if the virus itself was developed in N-space and not in W-space, it seems unlikely that such a powerful virus was just left loose like that. Perhaps there's something else behind all this. On an unrelated note, I find it confusing the mix of Talocan and Sleeper references in WH. Perhaps the Precursors were in fact Talocans, but then the "Talocan Technology" entry in the archive enclave wouldn't make much sense.
Saul Dhampir Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.07.07 01:29:00 - [48] Gahhh. Too many parallel threads. I recomend this one as the more comprehensive: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1314015
Taedrin Gallente Xovoni Directorate	Posted - 2010.07.07 04:48:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ... What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space? Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable) I think it's not only a matter of finding all puzzle pieces, which we may or may not have found, but also in putting them together the right way. Considering that we don't know how the picture is supposed to look like, the latter may be the more challenging effort in this whole story. Indeed. Insert maniacal laughter here? ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.07 06:40:00 - [50] Eventy One said "All of this makes me wonder if the Jove weren't first at war with the sleepers, or the sleepers responsible for the Jovian disease in the first place." A lot of the recent theory's seem to be that the Jove, Sleepers and Talocans are all the same race. That's not to say you idea is wrong, perhaps there was a civil war which would explain "one fateful moment in their history made them lose this control for a few generations, and the results were catastrophic." Imagine we are looking at the same race but at different evolution points. Perhaps the Sleepers are Jove from the 2nd empire, Talocans ships are Jove as well but from a different timeframe. Its perfectly possible that what we are looking at are abandoned, lost or old Jove stuff and we are just accidently naming it all different things as we are not aware it's all Jove. Jove have been around what 12,000 years? Pick out some items randomly from 5000's, 7,000 and 10,000 years. Would we recognise them as all Jove or would se start livening them all different names from a different reace? I am sure the Talocan and Sleepers are either the same race or very closely linked. Not 100% convinced about the Jove but there are hints the Talocan/Sleepers are an offshoot of the Jove possibly from the 2nd Jove empire. I am finding this a bit hard to explain. Imagine historian's come across a 4000 year old Jove Colony and a 6000 year old Jove colony. But call the 4000 year old colony Sleeper and the 6000 year old colony Talocan as they don't realise both are colonies from today's Jove. (just to be clear those numbers are made up its the idea I am trying to explain) ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2

Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.07 06:56:00 - [51] Edited by: Pottsey on 07/07/2010 06:56:32 http://www.scribd.com/doc/27571605 my collection of Sleeper lore, hopefully its of use. "the sleepers responsible for the Jovian disease in the first place." I just remember some real old lore which I am not sure is even valid anymore "The Elders were one of the first groups to use genetic engineering for a special purpose, namely that of slowing the aging process. Once, the Elders were a prominent political force in the Jovian society, but after they brought about the fall of the first Jovian empire they have become more reclusive. Elders can become many centuries old, it's uncertain exactly how old they can become, but some suggest they can outlive even members of the Amarrian royal families." If I recall correctly the Jovian disease bought down the 2nd Jove Empire. Could be it be the Sleepers and Wspace are leftovers of the 1st Jove empire that the Elders somehow bought down? ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.07.07 07:17:00 - [52] Starting to think the collapse of the Eve gate was no accident. It was deliberate. All of Eve is a quarantine zone.
Ghaylenty	Posted - 2010.07.07 08:05:00 - [53] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Starting to think the collapse of the Eve gate was no accident. It was deliberate. All of Eve is a quarantine zone. this thread is making me want to join a wh corp. badly.
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2010.07.07 08:40:00 - [54] The Jovian disease was caused by the Jovians themselves, due to centuries of cloning and making flawed copies of flawed copies.
David Grogan Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.07 12:10:00 - [55] Originally by: DuKackBoon The Jovian disease was caused by the Jovians themselves, due to centuries of cloning and making flawed copies of flawed copies. i still cant understand why a race would choose cloning over sex as a way to reproduce...........sex is fun ....cloning is boring SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Connie Focal The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.07 12:42:00 - [56] If you're a complete control freak, the incredible amount of reassortment and randomness in sexual reproduction could drive you crazy.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.07 12:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Thanks for sharing, though it kinda reinforces my PoV :P Scattered information is useless information :D I'll try to make some sense of it all between one gang and the other I would have loved if somebody else where doing this AND made a big enough fuss about it so the information always was easy assessable. But no... Oh, if you want pieces for your puzzle I got a bunch here. Well, not much yet but it is a start. Btw. I think the Talocan structures hint greatly that they were a nomadic and/or colonizing type of civilization. Perhaps simply early Terran colonizers. The Sleepers came by later to find something they should not have pocked their nose into. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
RG3D	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:00:00 - [58] The Jovian disease wouldn't require quarantine. I think the creators of the sleepers tried to escape a plague by putting themselves on ice. Maybe all that's left are their guardians, or maybe some wake up and cause some mischief? They could be one of the indigenous non-human races. But there's no secret there, and it sounds like there is something we are missing.
Kendon Riddick	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:03:00 - [59] i think the Talocans were the jove before the disease took them, so they started creating reaserch outposts beond the reach of moral eyes. The sleepers created to protect the precious research, a hybrid of human and technology possibly driven by a brain freed from the disease, yet too damaged to be reanimated in a fresh human clone. The Jove as they are now living with the disease in solitude waiting to hear from the wormhole research stations of a cure, each subsequent cycle of new offspring only adding to the sleepers numbers protecting the outside from the disease as much as the research within.
Salria Usenheart	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/07/2010 06:56:32 If I recall correctly the Jovian disease bought down the 2nd Jove Empire. Could be it be the Sleepers and Wspace are leftovers of the 1st Jove empire that the Elders somehow bought down? Jove disease brought down the 1st Empire, it ruled for 9000 years before they edited their basic instincts and lost control of their population for several generations. This is called the shrouded times, we are in contact with the 2nd, seriously reduced Jove Empire still not recovered from the genetic modification.

Lucious Desire	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:30:00 - [61] is it worth pointing out that the jove have been back through the EvE gate? and came back shouting "DO NOT WANT"
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:43:00 - [62] Originally by: Lucious Desire is it worth pointing out that the jove have been back through the EvE gate? and came back shouting "DO NOT WANT" Well if it's indeed true (sources please!), it's quite interesting. Unless something catastrophic happened, we can assume that Earth is now some 20k years before us in technological development, which would make a "second contact" quite interesting indeed, though perhaps with little hope for the new edeners. Still, did the Jove make it back with their technology or what? Because if they did make it back without external aid, I've got to ask myself why Earthers didn't come back to reclaim their colonies. Or, if they aren't here already, studying us like rats in a lab.
Lucious Desire	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:53:00 - [63] Edited by: Lucious Desire on 07/07/2010 13:53:40 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the book emperyan age ends with a Jovian battleship(research modifyed) thats had the poop kicked out of it comming back through the eve gate, then a solar flare type thing finish's it off. also describes the last moments of the only surviving crew member, saying if he had emotions he would be a bit miffed. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! edit page 3 snipe?
Grunanca Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.07.07 13:59:00 - [64] Originally by: Squat Hardpeck I crafted a ship capable of going through this wormhole and into Jove space. I lost it for many a year until one day, out in the deep depths of space, it miraculously reappeared. I traveled for months reaching the now derelict ship, but what I discovered was horrifying. All the crew was murdered in such a grotesque fashion it makes my stomach churn just pondering it. Upon checking the ship's logs to ascertain exactly what occurred on this ship, it turned out the portal this ship jumped through went to an alternate dimension. A place of torture, death, and hell. The ship then took on a life of its own, as if it were alive. Doors would open and close by themselves and lights would turn on and off. A figure would stare at me out of the corner of my eye, but whenever I turned to look, it was gone. The ship was gunning for me. It wanted to bring me into its fold. I had to get out, or I was going to die. I overloaded the ship's core and planted charges throughout its hull. I barely escaped with my life. This memory, this horrible memory that will stay with me forever is a testament to what the urge of discovery and exploration will take you. No one goes to Jove. Nobody ever makes it out alive. Oh dude! I love that movie Event Horizon ftw!
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.07 14:40:00 - [65] Edited by: Pottsey on 07/07/2010 14:42:22 Salria Usenheart said ôJove disease brought down the 1st Empire, it ruled for 9000 years before they edited their basic instincts and lost control of their population for several generations. This is called the shrouded times, we are in contact with the 2nd, seriously reduced Jove Empire still not recovered from the genetic modification.ö ThatÆs not correct. The 1st empire lasted 9000 years and an unknown fate with the Elders caused it to collapse. The 2nd empire which never hit the splendour or tech level of the first empire ended with the Jove disease. The Jove tried to run away from the disease and formed the current 3rd Jove Empire. We are currently in content with the 3rd Jove Empire. I just doubled checked my lore. The Jove are on the 3rd empire. The Third Empire was founded half a millennium ago amidst the devastation of the Jovian Disease. This was when the first Titan class ships where built. Lucious Desire ôis it worth pointing out that the jove have been back through the EvE gate? and came back shouting "DO NOT WANT"ö That is not what I remember. The Jove went into the gate but did not make it all the way though. They said the gate/wormhole is not what everyone else thinks it is and even hinted the wormhole might be alive. They went in the gate to get data. No where did it say they travelled to the other side and back. The wormhole lashed out at the Jove ship and destroyed it while the Jove where in the wormhole. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Rayvens	Posted - 2010.07.07 14:43:00 - [66] its didnt say either way as i recall
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.07 14:49:00 - [67] I need to reread it. But I thought it was along the lines of the Jove say the gate is not what people think it is. The Jove enter the wormhole and we get something like ôthe scientist saw that she had grown angry ...The Jovian shielded his eyes as EVE lashed out and engulfed the Eidolonö written in a way that the Jove ship was destroyed very soon after entering. Not enough time to get though to the other side. But I need to re read it as it has been a long time. But I am unable to get to my book for hours yet. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.07 14:58:00 - [68] Is it ok to post the Jove bit from the book on here? Its about 350words. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.07 15:00:00 - [69] Originally by: Pottsey I need to reread it. But I thought it was along the lines of the Jove say the gate is not what people think it is. The Jove enter the wormhole and we get something like ôthe scientist saw that she had grown angry ...The Jovian shielded his eyes as EVE lashed out and engulfed the Eidolonö written in a way that the Jove ship was destroyed very soon after entering. Not enough time to get though to the other side. But I need to re read it as it has been a long time. But I am unable to get to my book for hours yet. I just re-read that part quick and it says nothing about entering the wormhole, just that it ...was hurled through Point Genesis, which - contrary to Empire lore - was not all what it seemed." And calling EVE a 'she' is, I think, less meant to hint at EVE being alive and a female but more a play of words with 'Eve' being a female name. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Lucious Desire	Posted - 2010.07.07 15:27:00 - [70] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Pottsey I need to reread it. But I thought it was along the lines of the Jove say the gate is not what people think it is. The Jove enter the wormhole and we get something like ôthe scientist saw that she had grown angry ...The Jovian shielded his eyes as EVE lashed out and engulfed the Eidolonö written in a way that the Jove ship was destroyed very soon after entering. Not enough time to get though to the other side. But I need to re read it as it has been a long time. But I am unable to get to my book for hours yet. I just re-read that part quick and it says nothing about entering the wormhole, just that it ...was hurled through Point Genesis, which - contrary to Empire lore - was not all what it seemed." And calling EVE a 'she' is, I think, less meant to hint at EVE being alive and a female but more a play of words with 'Eve' being a female name. point being it was hurled through, which i guess points to them coming from the other side whatever that may be.

Cailais Amarr THE ORDAINED	Posted - 2010.07.07 16:26:00 - [71] My theory (and it is just a theory) is that Enclaves in W Space are an attempt by a diseased race (possibly the Jove / Talocan?) to quarantine themselves and then transfer their concious intelligence into some form of AI framework. The 'sleepers' are, essentially, those minds stored within the repositories of the Enclaves and the drones we see around them their effective guardians. i.e the 'sleepers' are still there. As this race transitioned from corporeal creatures of flesh into digital intelligences then they would need many of the structures we find in W space today. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.07 18:56:00 - [72] If there was a conflict, why are the Sleepers (by proxy their masters) against the Jove. Maybe they were both the target of an older race intent on wiping them out. It's a very common story seen in Babylon 5, Freespace, Wing Commander IV, Stargate, Stargate Atlantis, Space: Above and Beyond etc. They did away with some of the others, but the Jove, somehow, survived. Yeah history says that the Jove caused their own downfall, but then history is written by the winners; seeing as though the Jove are the only ones still around... I guess they canclaim victory. Would anyone really turn around and say "we had our arses handed to us but we sc****d through by the skin of our teeth... oh and er bow down before our might". Just a tought... this is a very interesting thread!
Kern Hotha	Posted - 2010.07.08 01:30:00 - [73] I had no idea that any of this background lore existed. It's good stuff, and I hope someone makes sense of it all (I'm too lazy).
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 13:19:00 - [74] Edited by: Eventy One on 08/07/2010 13:19:41 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac So, my conclusions... The Precursors (that's the name I'm going to use for the moment) were most probably at war (or at least under attack) by a force that used bioweapons of astounding lethality against them. They were not able to fight the disease, at least not in time to save their race from extinction, so they decided to try a double gamble: first, they made researches in the cryogenics field, to preserve their race in stasis while the second part of the gamble took place. For the second part they created an highly evolved artificial intelligence, based on multiple remotely interacting agents, which was given the ability to defend and reproduce itself and that was tasked with finding the cure to the disease, and then, I guess, revive their masters. This AI evolved into what we know as Sleeper Drones, and the Precursor race itself became the "Sleeper" race, since they are all in stasis. I think you've made a good case - and with the exception of a few points, generally there's a bunch of us leaning in that direction. I personally find the archive enclave the MOST interesting. I wonder if there isn't merit in training sleeper technology to V, in the odd chance CCPs written in secret value to those technology skillbooks. Originally by: Gecko O'Bac What doesn't fit here with what we know right now? Well first of all Sleeper drones don't seem to be all that bent on research, though, like ants do, it is very possible that they have specialized "worker/thinker" drones and what we see are just the warriors defending the nest. Secondly... Where is the nest? I mean... Where are all the Sleeping Beauties? AFAIK we found no trace of cryogenic stations so either the Precursor enemies killed them for good, or they are still somewhere hidden from sight, waiting to awaken. Or, 2 more possibilities: one, Drones went mad or for whatever reason killed their creators. Two, and I like this most, the drones weren't able to find a cure for the disease and thought that integrating their creators into their networks would provide some kind of way to live on, thus all the Awakened drones and whatever. Perhaps now the Sleeper drones are both the drones and their creators. No way to be sure so far though... Lets assume the sleepers have indeed embedded themselves virtually into this artificial intelligence systems, the stasis modules may/may not house what's left of their physical bodies, if they still have physical form. But what I believe that means is that individuals, as we think of individuals, are more like individual synapses in a larger brain. As far as the sleepers are concerned, we don't need to look at them individually to understand them, but collectively to see the whole - and the whole is this complex series of structures that work together in some integrated fashion, that itself defines who/what the artificial intelligence is. The communications enclaves, are thus the glue that allows the 'neuron's to interact. This is like the 'borg' but a living one, rather than a mechanical one. One analogy might be to consider individual computers against a model of networked computers (like a grid). The network is the computer! (The irony here is that the sleepers could be analogous to the EVE cluster itself!) This is the type of dialog we need to continue sharing to un-ravel this thing.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:08:00 - [75] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 08/07/2010 15:08:52 Not all the Sleeper drones are "ancient" though. Originally by: Emergent Sleeper drone The pristine condition of this Sleeper droneÆs armor suggests it has only recently been activated, perhaps even newly-manufactured. Even though it appears to be a relative newcomer to the swarm, there is little questioning that it bears the same deadly technology as its more elderly and experienced kin. Originally by: Awakened Sleeper drone The design of this Sleeper drone echoes what is believed to be the very earliest Sleeper Starships, suggesting it was perhaps constructed during that period too. Contrasting with its possible age is the unspoiled condition of its armor, suggesting that if it is indeed as ancient as its designers, it has only very recently been put into service. Originally by: Sleepless Sleeper drone An abundance of repair seams in this Sleeper droneÆs armor tell the story of millennia spent on duty, protecting the same unchanging area. The drone moves about with a mechanical indifference to the monotony of its task, executing each new maneuver with a flawless, unthinking precision. Now, if I say "child", "adult" and "elderly" I have maybe explained what the Sleeper race has turned into. Oh, and that they are still reproducing. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Myrkala Minmatar Interstellar Empire Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:35:00 - [76] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Originally by: Lucious Desire is it worth pointing out that the jove have been back through the EvE gate? and came back shouting "DO NOT WANT" Well if it's indeed true (sources please!), it's quite interesting. Unless something catastrophic happened, we can assume that Earth is now some 20k years before us in technological development, which would make a "second contact" quite interesting indeed, though perhaps with little hope for the new edeners. Still, did the Jove make it back with their technology or what? Because if they did make it back without external aid, I've got to ask myself why Earthers didn't come back to reclaim their colonies. Or, if they aren't here already, studying us like rats in a lab. Has anyone thought about the Monolith? Surely it must be a piece in all of this and its quite clearly connected to the EVE gate. Maybe its the only thing that can travel through the EVE gate with out being squished? Or maybe its the thing keeping it closed/holding it open, sort of like Atlas... Anyways I think this Monolith thing needs to get a better look at. - Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Minmatar? More like Winmatar. :D
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.08 18:29:00 - [77] Originally by: Eventy One This is the type of dialog we need to continue sharing to un-ravel this thing. I agree. What is lacking, imho, right now, is a wiki like place to share information (not sure about the rules on evelopedia but probably are to strict to allow discussions inside pages and probably even a wide access. Originally by: Eventy One I think you've made a good case - and with the exception of a few points, generally there's a bunch of us leaning in that direction. I personally find the archive enclave the MOST interesting. I wonder if there isn't merit in training sleeper technology to V, in the odd chance CCPs written in secret value to those technology skillbooks. Well it's interesting for sure, especially since Dropbear said that basically everything they put somewhere has some kind of meaning. I said it's not interesting because its information is too much vague and dereferenced to let us make any valuable hypotesis. You could as well say that the Precursors WEREN'T humans and study humans for that reason... I admit I thought that myself, but without more info we can hardly say this hypothesis is worth anything. Originally by: Eventy One Lets assume the sleepers have indeed embedded themselves virtually into this artificial intelligence systems, the stasis modules may/may not house what's left of their physical bodies, if they still have physical form. But what I believe that means is that individuals, as we think of individuals, are more like individual synapses in a larger brain. As far as the sleepers are concerned, we don't need to look at them individually to understand them, but collectively to see the whole - and the whole is this complex series of structures that work together in some integrated fashion, that itself defines who/what the artificial intelligence is. The communications enclaves, are thus the glue that allows the 'neuron's to interact. This is like the 'borg' but a living one, rather than a mechanical one. One analogy might be to consider individual computers against a model of networked computers (like a grid). The network is the computer! Here I disagree a little... I think that the the structures are not used by the Sleeper drones, except perhaps for shelter. They are tasked to defend them, and this they do. The structure themselves are Precursor objects and were left uninhabited after they went to Sleep. It is though possible that they finally decide to integrate themselves into the drones and thus no stasis center remains, but the behaviour of the drones doesn't seem to indicate so, nor the info we can gather from the structures themselves. Also, drones are autonomous agents with limited intelligence. Perhaps Sleeper drones have an inherent intelligence higher than the drones we have (or even rogue drones), especially in the case of the Sleeper Battleships (which have been active for millenia, while the cruiser and frigate drones were rebuilt recently (which is interesting by itself...)). What it matters is the "Emergent systems" thing in the enclave. It means that the drones were meant to operate as single agents but with strong ties to each other. This means that while one drone could fulfill a simple task, a lot of them would be able to complete complex tasks (like ants and bees). Since the drones show repetitive behaviour and limited intelligence by themselves (well, even if we take into account game mechanics), I think I can say that if there was a transfer of consciousness from the Precursor to their drones, THOSE drones are not the ones we're seeing here. Myrkala: Ahem... What's the Monolith? :D
khazak mokl	Posted - 2010.07.08 18:53:00 - [78] The point of all this shud be is there anything at the end of the seach besides getting the timeline and events in a proper chronological order. I mean the other COSMOS missions have lootz at the end. Would CCP Dropbear care to comment?
Esiel Renegade Serenity	Posted - 2010.07.08 19:19:00 - [79] Originally by: Myrkala Anyways I think this Monolith thing needs to get a better look at. This and much more are people reading too much into things. Sometimes things are there because it is fun or because it looks cool, and is not some part of a secret I swear some of this stuff is like adding 1 + 1 = orange. ... Beat the dead horse
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Esiel Originally by: Myrkala Anyways I think this Monolith thing needs to get a better look at. This and much more are people reading too much into things. Sometimes things are there because it is fun or because it looks cool, and is not some part of a secret I swear some of this stuff is like adding 1 + 1 = orange. Sorry but... You're wrong. And not because I said so, but because CCP Dropbear specifically said that almost everything they put in game has somehow meaning and a reason to be there. To quote him from another thread: "Let me tell you now that if you look closely at all things Sleeper, you will be rewarded for it. Nothing was put anywhere by mistake, and very, very, little of it is what you could describe as "filler". " Admittedly, this may not regard other areas as much, but we're talking specifically about sleepers here, so...

Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:57:00 - [81] Originally by: khazak mokl The point of all this shud be is there anything at the end of the seach besides getting the timeline and events in a proper chronological order. I mean the other COSMOS missions have lootz at the end. Would CCP Dropbear care to comment? Well there is that .. but more so - these clues are really aweful subtle ... annnnddd ... the vastness of wormhole space, and unpredictability of wormhole connections means that finding clues ingame, in a systematic way is next to impossible. If there really is more to find, having loot drops provide clue, or support for in game mechanics to better navigate wh space(so we can have some chance of targeting specific wh systems for example) may make finding the clues more probable. Otherwise CCP is going to have to use the 'live events' to ensure the clues are at least accessible.
Ghaylenty	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:00:00 - [82] this is probably the most interesting thread on the forum right now. it is very unfortunate that there is so little information available as im sure people would love to know the real lore of the EVE universe.. but i suppose it is fitting that lost wormhole information isnt known by most people in the game. :P i actually fly amarr
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Ghaylenty this is probably the most interesting thread on the forum right now. it is very unfortunate that there is so little information available as im sure people would love to know the real lore of the EVE universe.. but i suppose it is fitting that lost wormhole information isnt known by most people in the game. :P The real problem is, in truth, that much of the info is lost because there's no single gathering place, accessible to all.
Mithfindel Aseyakone	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:10:00 - [84] A few notes: Sleepers and Talocans occypy the same space in W-space, but it doesn't mean that they occupied it the same time. Therefore, it cannot be said that "Talocans made the Sleepers". (Has anyone checked if Talocan structures have their own story to tell and how it interacts with the story told by the Sleeper structures?) It is highly possible that the Sleepers made themselves (and a few of the original meat&bones folks are in stasis still). I understand that it is unknown whether the drones are controlled by an artificial intelligence or human consciousness uploaded into a computer. (Or possibly, Sleepers in stasis connected into a computer.) Like noted several times, the Jovian Disease originated during the known history, and it is very much known that they did cause it themselves. (At least if you disregard "Dark Jove" or other rumours of a race that is "no longer human". Unless, of course, the race very briefly mentioned in Theodicy was, infact, the Sleepers. The Takmahl are considered to be a sect that once belonged to the Amarr Empire. They were declared heretics and destroyed. The Blood Raiders seem to revere them. However, they are not any more ancient than the "current" empires. So, there might be three waves of interstellar civilization in New Eden: (1) First Jovian Empire, possibly Sleepers and Yan Jung, most certainly Talocan. Almost no technology loss from Terran level. (2) Second Jovian Empire, Sleepers, remnants of other empires? Some of these races might have visited Athra (Amarr Prime) and caused the founding of the Amarr Empire. (Ametat and Avetat) (3a) Amarr Empire, Gallente Federation (incl. Caldari), Jovian Directorate, Minmatar (early attempts of colonization using Terran stargates) (3b) Caldari State (as an independent entity, possibly with Jove help), Minmatar Republic (modern, with Gallente/Jove help), Feythabolis (before the Angel Cartel crushed them)
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:22:00 - [85] Edited by: Eventy One on 08/07/2010 21:27:32 Originally by: Mithfindel The Takmahl are considered to be a sect that once belonged to the Amarr Empire. They were declared heretics and destroyed. The Blood Raiders seem to revere them. However, they are not any more ancient than the "current" empires. I've seen this argument a couple of times in the last few days. My Eve lore is pretty good, but I'm thinking I'm missing something in the Takmahl history (I all but edited this out of the Eve Wiki article on the Takkmahl on that basis). Now, I've not run the Amarr COSMOS missions and I know something of the history of the Takmahl is covered there, but if you know other places where I can track the Takmahl lore, I'd apprciate it.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.09 06:23:00 - [86] Mithfindel said "The Takmahl are considered to be a sect that once belonged to the Amarr Empire. They were declared heretics and destroyed." Thats not what I recall but I am about to head off to work so cannot double check. Yes Takmahl where part of the Amarr Empire. But they where part of the Amarr empire before the Amaar empire was truly in space and had no other colony's. Takmahl space program was ahead of the general Amarr race and they left the empire for deep space. They did not get destroyed by the Amarr Empire as far as I recall. Takmahl left Amarr very early on in Amarr civilised history. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.09 06:29:00 - [87] Edited by: Pottsey on 09/07/2010 06:29:33 I should so be heading to work now. "Agent name: The Curator Location: Museum Arcana System: Zimse Agent Corporation: Theology Council Agent level: 3 Agent Quality: 0 Listed difficulty rating: none Mine difficulty rating: Level 4 Mission name: Unearthing the Ancients (1 of 3) Mission type: Trade/search Mission briefing: This is the Museum Arcana, where you'll find the finest collection of rare and beautiful items from all over. But what we are most famous for is our collection of Takmahl artifacts. The Takmahls were once part of the great Amarr Empire, but were exiled from the empire a long time ago, only shortly after us Amarrians took to space again. The Takmahls were heretics of the worst sort, some call them the predecessors of the Blood Raider cult. For centuries nothing was heard from them, but not long ago relics were found here in Araz that show that the Takmahls had a thriving culture for many centuries after their departure from the glorious Amarr Empire. Yet at some point they died out, for what reasons I do not know. Archaeologists and treasure seekers from all over have since convened here in Araz, dreaming of uncovering the secrets of the Takmahls, or more precisely, their fabled treasures. Yet my job here is not just overseeing the museum, but more importantly I am here as a member of the Theology Council. It is our job to make sure the despicable scriptures and rituals of the Takmahls are kept well under wrap. The last thing the Empire needs right now is another religious schism. Your presence here means that you are an archaeologist of some merits. I have use of someone with your talents, rooting out those seeking false enlightenment or harbingers of discord. Help me out a bit and I will give you the key to the hidden treasures of the Takmahls. But only if you first prove yourself to be a champion of the Amarr faith. There is a certain item to be found among the relics you see here scattered around. I want you to use your archaeological skills to unearth for me a Centrifugal Primer. It's advanced theoretical texts that I hope will give us rare insights into the rise and fall of the Takmahls. Bring me one of them, from past experience I know that your best bet of finding one is in a Digital Mezzotint. It's a rare item, so don't be too discouraged if you don't find it right away. If you haven't realized already this is a test of your mettle. If you manage to find me one I'll reward you well later down the line, but even if you fail I still have some use for you. Talk to me again when you have the Primer, or when you have given up the search." http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/Amarr_COSMOS_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v1.2.pdf ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Connie Focal The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:49:00 - [88] Edited by: Connie Focal on 09/07/2010 07:49:50 With regards to the Emergent, Awakened and Sleepless thing, these could be viewed as lifecycle points, as Jowen says. Emergent properties are unexpected behaviours that arise in any sufficiently complex system - our own intelligence, for example, is an emergent property of the complexity in the human brain. Awakened could be a reference to the advance into self-awareness - ie; a one-year old child shows intelligence but no self-awareness. They only really 'awaken' at the age of around two. So we have the development of their artifical intelligences - starting off as emergent properties of their complex programming, progressing to an awakening of self-awareness. Sleepless doesn't quite fit into this, but it could hint at a 'guardian' or parental stage of their development. It reminds me of the development of the AI Minds in Iain M Banks' Culture books - these are born into a sort of pseudoorganic state and left to develop and evolve in their own way until they eventually awaken into a full Mind and choose their own name, etc.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.09 08:51:00 - [89] It has just occurred to me that the Talocan structures encountered in w-space are a bit more "rough" than the Sleeper structures and are hinting two different kinds of societies. Further, they seem to be completely dead and silent while Sleeper structures are still teeming with electrical energies. I have a pretty good feeling that pioneers is a keyword for the Talocan. Now I am trying to figure out the connection between the two races. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Madner Kami Gallente Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2010.07.09 10:05:00 - [90] Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 10:06:11 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Myrkala: Ahem... What's the Monolith? :D First and foremost, a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey, a movie by Stanley Kubrick. Oddly enough it also makes a cameo in w-space: http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3593/monolith.png

Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.09 10:41:00 - [91] Originally by: Madner Kami Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 10:06:11 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Myrkala: Ahem... What's the Monolith? :D First and foremost, a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey, a movie by Stanley Kubrick. Oddly enough it also makes a cameo in w-space: http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3593/monolith.png Cool... But I have to correct you there... The reference would be more to the original book from Arthur C. Clarke, on which the movie was based :P
Madner Kami Gallente Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2010.07.09 11:29:00 - [92] Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 11:31:32 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Cool... But I have to correct you there... The reference would be more to the original book from Arthur C. Clarke, on which the movie was based :P Didn't have enough coffee today and was tooo lazy to check who wrote the book and hence didn't refer to it. Beyond that, the look is 2001-only, since Clarke described it quite different. In fact, it was a pyramid there ;)
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.09 12:59:00 - [93] Hehe I am shocked you didn't know it was Clarke!
Madner Kami Gallente Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2010.07.09 13:20:00 - [94] Lack of coffee does terrible things to my mind.
Caldari Citizen20090217	Posted - 2010.07.09 13:25:00 - [95] 4 pages and noone has mentioned the Enheduanni? If theres a conspiracy theory involving the older races, manipulation and general skullduggery, then it was probably these fellas. More info in this thread courtesy of Pottsey.
VanNostrum	Posted - 2010.07.09 13:34:00 - [96] Originally by: David Grogan Originally by: DuKackBoon The Jovian disease was caused by the Jovians themselves, due to centuries of cloning and making flawed copies of flawed copies. i still cant understand why a race would choose cloning over sex as a way to reproduce...........sex is fun ....cloning is boring because sex wouldn't produce the best of the best offsprings when they could just alter some genes to produce super-humans (or super-joves) in labs.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.09 14:12:00 - [97] Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 09/07/2010 14:12:26 Originally by: Madner Kami Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 11:31:32 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Cool... But I have to correct you there... The reference would be more to the original book from Arthur C. Clarke, on which the movie was based :P Didn't have enough coffee today and was tooo lazy to check who wrote the book and hence didn't refer to it. Beyond that, the look is 2001-only, since Clarke described it quite different. In fact, it was a pyramid there ;) In the version I read the monolith was clearly described as being 1 by 4 by 9 in size, clearly defining it as a manufactured object... Dunno if Clarke did a rewrite of the novel once Kubrick made the movie... That is possible. Edit: Also, I shall stop derailing the thread :P
Zofe Stormcaller Shadow Company Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2010.07.09 14:40:00 - [98] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Originally by: Madner Kami Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 10:06:11 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Myrkala: Ahem... What's the Monolith? :D First and foremost, a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey, a movie by Stanley Kubrick. Oddly enough it also makes a cameo in w-space: http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3593/monolith.png Cool... But I have to correct you there... The reference would be more to the original book from Arthur C. Clarke, on which the movie was based :P Planet 5 moon 5 in the "dead end" system near New Eden in Amarr lowsec IIRC. I highly recommend going there, bring a secure container and anchor it in New Eden while you are there.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.09 15:11:00 - [99] I think the monolith proves W-space is new eden in another time. Quote: The word derives from the Latin word monolithus from the Greek word μονόλιθος (monolithos), derived from μόνος ("one" or "single") and λίθος ("stone").
Bunds PILGRIMS	Posted - 2010.07.09 15:20:00 - [100] some great post in here best topic on here in a long time

Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.09 18:31:00 - [101] Edited by: Eventy One on 09/07/2010 18:31:23 Originally by: Auwnie Morohe I think the monolith proves W-space is new eden in another time. Quote: The word derives from the Latin word monolithus from the Greek word μονόλιθος (monolithos), derived from μόνος ("one" or "single") and λίθος ("stone"). There's the monolith, and then there is that statue on top of the floating debris that points off in some direction. (Someone told me once, they all point to the same point in space). I suppose the question is - there's clearly a lot of interest in this subject - what's our strategy for figuring it out?
Jove X Dragon Highlords	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:55:00 - [102] Edited by: Jove X on 09/07/2010 19:55:59 I think CCP Dropbear's clue here, is very telling. He's made the comparison between Oruze Osobnyk and the etymological quirky origin of the word denim from Serikos de Nimes (silk from Nimes). He points out Serikos de Nimes was shortened to denim. This implies we should be trying to desconstruct some of the clues (linguistic or otherwise) we find with the Sleepers and Talocan structures. If so ... what quirky origin could Osobnyk have? Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.10 08:21:00 - [103] Unfortunately my linguistic skills are very poor and that is not something I can help with. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.10 09:56:00 - [104] Originally by: Pottsey Unfortunately my linguistic skills are very poor and that is not something I can help with. Unfortunately it's the same for me... But imho the linguistic way isn't the best one... I have something like a feeling that there's an in game way to understand the meaning of that word...
Jove X Dragon Highlords	Posted - 2010.07.10 20:49:00 - [105] Doesn't Oruze = Oruse? Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.10 20:54:00 - [106] Originally by: Jove X Doesn't Oruze = Oruse? Anyone go and check the wormholes out leading from there out. Maybe there's a frequent link to an otherwise hidden/isolated w-space system. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Spurty Caldari D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.07.10 22:01:00 - [107] this thread souly has sparked my interest in the RPG elements of this game. so what was hinted was the starting point to some information / next step in the story. wormholes are clearly the doorway. perhaps there are other clues such as "when to look" as well as where. must admit I love a good adventure / mystery. NAPS: forcing you to play 'their' game
Reldor Silverheart Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.10 22:14:00 - [108] I have read alot of theese threads but i do have somewhat of a theory, what if the jovians, sleepers and talocans actually share the same origin, all we know is that they all branch back 12000 years ago. My thought is tho they are of the same origin, something caused a split, perhaps it happened naturally perhaps through internal conflict. Possibility is that after decades or milennias of frustration towards eachother war broke up. Jovians had developed one way while the talocans another, in the end the jovians unleashed the virus against the talocans. Truth to be told i do not know how well this theory hold up, but again it is simply a theory.
Chibuku Tensei	Posted - 2010.07.10 23:51:00 - [109] Originally by: Reldor Silverheart I have read alot of theese threads but i do have somewhat of a theory, what if the jovians, sleepers and talocans actually share the same origin, all we know is that they all branch back 12000 years ago. My thought is tho they are of the same origin, something caused a split, perhaps it happened naturally perhaps through internal conflict. Possibility is that after decades or milennias of frustration towards eachother war broke up. Jovians had developed one way while the talocans another, in the end the jovians unleashed the virus against the talocans. Truth to be told i do not know how well this theory hold up, but again it is simply a theory. I got a tin foil hat and i would like to put it on and join you in this. What if the sleeps talocans and the other old race's became the Jovians and later abaddoned there wormholes that they used to make a virus to allow them to live forever with out the need for clones. The virus did not work as they hoped and slowy killed them all and they left the old sleeper drones to guard the sites to make sure the virus could never be spread again.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.11 07:32:00 - [110] My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'. Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality?

Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.11 07:47:00 - [111] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 11/07/2010 07:52:27 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Originally by: Pottsey Unfortunately my linguistic skills are very poor and that is not something I can help with. Unfortunately it's the same for me... But imho the linguistic way isn't the best one... I have something like a feeling that there's an in game way to understand the meaning of that word... Aye, an approach could be to compare two things nearly identical: Originally by: The Oruze Construct The mysterious structure inside this deadspace pocket offers few clues as to the purpose it once served. An enclave positioned at the heart of the construct appears to have been entirely redesigned in some way, to serve a goal now long-forgotten. The only insight into the unique architecture is the word ôOruze,ö which continually resurfaces throughout the garbled, largely indecipherable transmissions that emanate from within. Originally by: Oruze Osobnyk The mysterious structure inside this deadspace pocket offers few clues as to the purpose it once served. Similar compounds -- albeit far less complex than this one -- have been reported, each featuring the same huddled architecture, evocative of the enigmatic Phantom cruiser. What relation the ôOruzeö structures may have to one another remains a mystery. An enclave positioned at the heart of the construct appears to have been entirely redesigned. It is flanked by two others, which in turn are hedged in by engineering stations that themselves seem to have been redesigned. The only insight into the unique architecture is the word ôOruze Osobnyk,ö which continually resurfaces throughout the garbled, largely indecipherable transmissions that emanate from within. Now to find out what those modifications are and what makes an "Oruze" an "Osobnyk" requires a bit more digging. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Madner Kami Gallente Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2010.07.11 08:50:00 - [112] Originally by: Eventy One My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'. Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality? Close, I think, but not entirely correct. It is established, that the Sansha are not an ancient culture of their own. They're basically an ex-business-venture of a calamari businessmen, who went all cyberpunk on his followers and made a bunch of technozombies out of them, which the >current< main-empires deemed too dangerous for themselves, at least as long as someone else does it. However your assumption about them >now< having ties with the sleepers, is entirely possible, given their man-machine status and sleepers most likely not beeing any more then empty shells whose brains have been transfered into megacomputers and the recent Sansha-activity makes this seem likely. However you should also not forget, that Sanshas themselves are masters of technology as well and so their WH-abilities and -activities could be entirely based on their own efforts, without any sleeper connection. Originally by: Jowen Datloran Aye, an approach could be to compare two things nearly identical: [...] Now to find out what those modifications are and what makes an "Oruze" an "Osobnyk" requires a bit more digging. I'll jump into the breach and state the obvious: Oruze simply either means "habitat" or "module" or "enclave" or something along that line. Although it seems to specifically refer to the redesigned complex-module, so it could also mean: "module redesigned for specific purpose x" or much much more simpler: "redesigned module" or "repurposed module".
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.11 09:14:00 - [113] Originally by: Eventy One My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'. Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality? I always thought that Sansha's Nation was created by the use of Capsule technology. Which makes sense in as such that with some modifications you get people controlled by implants instead of people controlling ships through implants. So in effect, Sansha himself could run his whole nation pretty much like a Capsuleer can run a ship. Using the True Slaves as a kind of neural command network relay that control the lower drones in a hierarchical pyramid pattern. One pod to rule them all, so to say. And when the "pilot" of the Nation got removed the remnants were just doing routine maintenance tasks, at least until a new head came back recently, be it the original, a backup clone or a impostor. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.11 10:49:00 - [114] Originally by: Madner Kami Close, I think, but not entirely correct. It is established, that the Sansha are not an ancient culture of their own. They're basically an ex-business-venture of a calamari businessmen, who went all cyberpunk on his followers and made a bunch of technozombies out of them, which the >current< main-empires deemed too dangerous for themselves, at least as long as someone else does it. However your assumption about them >now< having ties with the sleepers, is entirely possible, given their man-machine status and sleepers most likely not beeing any more then empty shells whose brains have been transfered into megacomputers and the recent Sansha-activity makes this seem likely. However you should also not forget, that Sanshas themselves are masters of technology as well and so their WH-abilities and -activities could be entirely based on their own efforts, without any sleeper connection. Yeah I agree... The history of Sansha is not really that secret, at least in its beginning. It's though totally possible that after they went "into hiding" they discovered new techs (or developed them themselves). The recent opening of WHs means they could have got into wspace by the means which are common to us all but their superior tech means they could have found a way to infiltrate the Sleeper network and gain some technological insight, up to the point where they can create artificial wormholes to about whenever they like? The forays in Jove space could mean they are out in a tech scavenging hunt... Originally by: Madner Kami I'll jump into the breach and state the obvious: Oruze simply either means "habitat" or "module" or "enclave" or something along that line. Although it seems to specifically refer to the redesigned complex-module, so it could also mean: "module redesigned for specific purpose x" or much much more simpler: "redesigned module" or "repurposed module". It's possible but given the emphasis Dropbear has put on the term I'd say it's something more important... Certainly the fact that it specifically says that the Osobnyk is much larger (and thus probably more important) though still related to those other facilities we know is interesting. Perhaps it's some sort of command center, an important network hub? Knowing what those structures are would help us in this...
Razor Blue VR Corp	Posted - 2010.07.11 13:22:00 - [115] I guess i gather some stuffs here: World on fire chronicle This chronicle is about the Seyllin planet 1 getting shattered. Its sleepers ship in the chronicle pic? Another linky Apparently shattered planets, sleepers and wormholes have something in common? According to the chronicle all planets were shattered at same time. All planets including null sec, wspace and some unrecorded ones? Also, shattered planets are the first planet in the system and all systems have same type of star. Oruze osobnyk Vitrauze project They have something in common? Curious comments by CCP Jasonitas "If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently." "...Discovering the ancient world requires thinking in at least four dimensions" Linkage Anyways, my guess is that Talocans are still here since there is no really evidence that they died. Also theres the funny pop up when warping to some sleeper site which says something like: "You are not alone, perhaps you never were" Furthermore, the Talocan technology skill says that they were masters of hypereauclidean mathematics AND theres a non-public Electronic-skill called Hypereauclidean Navigation which suggests that Talocans were masters of cloaking. So conclusion is that Talocans have been afk cloaking for few millenia
Chwho Bacca	Posted - 2010.07.11 14:21:00 - [116] Edited by: Chwho Bacca on 11/07/2010 14:21:24 Thanks OP for the fascinating post, it felt like an unofficial Eve EON Magazine issue. Very Very interesting, this has potential. Subspace communication within local chat inside wormhole space adding story lines of the "Sleeper/Jove" relation letting us see different sides to WHS is a great idea. It will slowly bring in another expansion that will one day exist. I think its a great idea if this really is what is brewing in the CCP offices. Think of the storyline that could come from this, think of the expansions that could be released, even another universe that would deal with the story line after the Jove/Sleeper story gets old - Bringing in another story line for the other ancients. Great read OP! Thank you. :)
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:12:00 - [117] Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 11/07/2010 18:12:52 Originally by: Razor Blue I guess i gather some stuffs here: World on fire chronicle This chronicle is about the Seyllin planet 1 getting shattered. Its sleepers ship in the chronicle pic? Another linky Apparently shattered planets, sleepers and wormholes have something in common? According to the chronicle all planets were shattered at same time. All planets including null sec, wspace and some unrecorded ones? Also, shattered planets are the first planet in the system and all systems have same type of star. Not sure about Sleepers (though the ships in the image do appear to have some points in common with sleeper ships (namely the tendril like structures in the prow), but from the chronicle IMHO we can safely say that the shattered planets were caused by the "Seylinn Incident", which opened the access to wspace. They were planets in systems which had a blue star and were triggered remotely from the explosions of Isogen-5. I doubt they have any other significance... More interesting is the fact that either the Blood Raiders were fooled into triggering the event or, more probably, if was foreseen by an ancient race. Which race? No idea, chronicle doesn't hint in any direction. If it wasn't for the fact that Sansha are new I'd have said that given their current interest in WHs it could have been them, but I doubt they had such technology in the first place. Something more ancient and with perhaps some ties to wormhole studies, time travel and the like are better candidates, though I don't know if there even is such a race. Also: "Not an entire fleet," the president repeated, pacing back and forth. "But, say, a pack of cloaked Marauders, using a direct portal between Luminaire and New Caldariù" Fouritain has no clue Originally by: Razor Blue Curious comments by CCP Jasonitas "If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently." "...Discovering the ancient world requires thinking in at least four dimensions" Linkage Well, Jasonitas's reply is interesting but not really strange. I mean, assuming that because Egyptians live in the land of the Pharaohs they must descend from that culture or be in someway dependent is quite deceiving or, at best, naive. Though what does this mean for us? Well I don't know which structures are "Talocans" and which "Sleeper", but if the Quarantine Zone we have been examining here is Talocan then we may very well be very wrong about the Sleeper drones being a "derived culture". I find much more interesting the hypotesis about the WHs sending us in the future... It would open unexplored possibilities... Though the age data in stars and so on would have to be more thoroughly confirmed (and since the planet/star data has always been a little "random" I don't know how much faith we can put on it). Originally by: Razor Blue Anyways, my guess is that Talocans are still here since there is no really evidence that they died. Also theres the funny pop up when warping to some sleeper site which says something like: "You are not alone, perhaps you never were" Furthermore, the Talocan technology skill says that they were masters of hypereauclidean mathematics AND theres a non-public Electronic-skill called Hypereauclidean Navigation which suggests that Talocans were masters of cloaking. So conclusion is that Talocans have been afk cloaking for few millenia I Lol'ed :D (Damn char limit... Another post incoming!)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:21:00 - [118] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac More interesting is the fact that either the Blood Raiders were fooled into triggering the event or, more probably, if was foreseen by an ancient race. Which race? No idea, chronicle doesn't hint in any direction. If it wasn't for the fact that Sansha are new I'd have said that given their current interest in WHs it could have been them, but I doubt they had such technology in the first place. Something more ancient and with perhaps some ties to wormhole studies, time travel and the like are better candidates, though I don't know if there even is such a race. The incident was facilitated by the Jove who gave the Thukker people some code to get around the Rogue Drones at the Isogen-5 hive, which allowed them to pop the whole thing. If anyone knew what was going to happen, it was the Jove. Hell, they may have sealed off w-space to begin with to keep the plague out of the cluster. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:33:00 - [119] Originally by: Razor Blue Oruze osobnyk Vitrauze project They have something in common? Well... It certainly looks like they did find the structures in wspace but... The more I read that chronicle the more I feel like there's A LOT of info there. IE: To the Amarr, "Vitra" meant simply "life." Life itself. The Gallentean understanding of the word was more subtle, however. To them it meant "living." Different in the way sunrise and sunset are, she thought. -- This time, there was no life in Hilen's eyes, and it was telling her to go. Once again into the darkness, and for a moment she could almost feel that wind on her face, as the data that represented who she was failed to cross the river back home. It seems that Lianda was somehow contacted by some kind of projection from the structures, a projection that managed to simulate Hilen while still being "unliving". Sounds very much like an AI. But later it seems Lianda is once again talking to Hilen himself... Everything is a little hazy... Other things: "The password, the one she entered. The incorrect string?" "I will put aside any questions I have about how you would have access to such a thing and ask you to come to the point." "It's a locus." "I see." Locus could mean either THIS (genetics) or THIS (mathematics). The genetic explanation since more likely since the mathematic locus could mean a lot of things... Now on the other hand, the locus of a gene is a very interesting thing indeed... IE it could indicate which gene is targeted by a specific illness... Get my point? Or in truth a lot of other things, but it's interesting nonetheless (even though it doesn't tell us much by itself). Also I have this feeling, though it's basically just that, that Lianda got somehow integrated into some kind of network, like the one supposedly shared by Sleeper drones... And I also have this feeling that this was in someway the expected outcome of the Vitrauze project. And thus perhaps the locus cited above is the only message Lianda managed to get through? Imagination here is running with the mwd on, can't help it, but it doesn't seem.... that unlikely.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:38:00 - [120] Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 11/07/2010 18:43:40 Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Gecko O'Bac More interesting is the fact that either the Blood Raiders were fooled into triggering the event or, more probably, if was foreseen by an ancient race. Which race? No idea, chronicle doesn't hint in any direction. If it wasn't for the fact that Sansha are new I'd have said that given their current interest in WHs it could have been them, but I doubt they had such technology in the first place. Something more ancient and with perhaps some ties to wormhole studies, time travel and the like are better candidates, though I don't know if there even is such a race. The incident was facilitated by the Jove who gave the Thukker people some code to get around the Rogue Drones at the Isogen-5 hive, which allowed them to pop the whole thing. If anyone knew what was going to happen, it was the Jove. Hell, they may have sealed off w-space to begin with to keep the plague out of the cluster. Sources? I'd like to comment only after having read the original source but I kinda think that while the Jove may have known what was going to happen, they weren't the race that prepared everything in the first place. Edit: I keep rereading that chronicle... Quote: She was watching the people of Seyllin die on live holovision when they came for her. Lianda. I must warn you, my child, no matter the risk. The Senate has learned of the appearance of new, stable wormholes, leading to unknown areas of space. You must not involve yourself in this matter. There will be a time and a place for your research to continue. Please, for the sake of everything you have worked for, lie low. They told her CreoDron had only asked for one person. On the display, a darkened and burning orb glowed in brilliant shades of blue. Millions must have been there, she thought, trapped inside a dying planet. They said this was the kind of help that would matter more tomorrow, when today had taken what it would from them all. Strangely poetic, the ones they had decided to send for her. Most likely no coincidence. They left her there. She would follow soon, once her affairs had been set in order. Those words, and the truth of them in her eyes when she stepped towards them so purposefully, They had bought the privacy she would need to reach him. Perhaps the "THEY" cited here are not of the Federation. Perhaps (or maybe even probably) they are Jove. Which would explain my hunch about the whole thing being intended. And then perhaps the locus was a needed info for the Jove, which have well known genetic problems... Quote: Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually. - Hilen Tukoss. Program Director, Otosela Neuropsychology Center. And this just strengthens my belief. As well as the fact that there is some kind of collaboration between Caldari and Gallente. An external force would explain it... There's just so much info in that chronicle...

Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:39:00 - [121] Aren't wormhole systems named after their locus coordinates? -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:47:00 - [122] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Sources? I'd like to comment only after having read the original source but I kinda think that while the Jove may have known what was going to happen, they weren't the race that prepared everything in the first place. Sorry, got my memory mixed up. Thought the Thukkers hacked the drones but instead the Blood Raiders did get the code from their boss. Though it may have been provided by the Society of Conscious thought. Chronicle: End of the World, The Great Harvest -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:51:00 - [123] Originally by: Abrazzar Aren't wormhole systems named after their locus coordinates? They are? No idea... But if they do then the locus in question is clearly the location of something.
Messoroz	Posted - 2010.07.11 19:42:00 - [124] Surprised we aren't looking at empire space for more hints, the Ani constellation cosmos sites have sleeper drops/some missions require sleeper items.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.07.11 20:24:00 - [125] Tlalocan is the first level of the "upper worlds", or 'heavens' in the language of ancient Nahuatl-speaking peoples of central america e.g. The Aztecs. The similarity with Talocan seems remarkable.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.12 06:11:00 - [126] Messoroz said"Surprised we aren't looking at empire space for more hints, the Ani constellation cosmos sites have sleeper drops/some missions require sleeper items." Those where added into the game years back before wormholes and new sleepers where planed out. The old content has been abandoned for a long time with some of it broke. I did look into it still and even trained up the sleeper technology skill book. But so far found nothing and I don't expect to. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 07:43:00 - [127] Here's proof drones in empire are busy working on a Jovian battle station. What you say? Pics ... or it didn't happen! Ok.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:44:00 - [128] ?? The two things look nothing alike.
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:45:00 - [129] Here is something to ponder - have we pilots read and / or seen everything involved with this grand puzzle or will CCP continue to release small fragments in various ways that may or may not appear as puzzle pieces? As much as we can speculate, perhaps there are still pieces to be found and pondered into the future, pieces CCP has yet to release, confusing us even further...
Sekretarka	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:01:00 - [130] Originally by: Nareg Maxence ?? The two things look nothing alike. You obviously need your eyes checked friend! On the side note, could be CCP artist just reusing and modifying existing asset.

Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:11:00 - [131] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 12/07/2010 09:11:51 Originally by: Eventy One Here's proof drones in empire are busy working on a Jovian battle station. What you say? Pics ... or it didn't happen! Ok. Nice find. It is quite clear that the texture on these two parts are exactly the same. But from this angle the two structures looking nothing alike. On the Jove station the spikes goes away from the central structure while on the drone structure the spikes point towards a gaping hole on the middle of the structure. I would not be so quick to jump to conclusions as from other drones structures, which I sadly do not have pictures of, we know that drones often construct their hives out of parts they scavenge (the Gallente station fused with two Megatrons springs to mind). I suspect that is the case here too. Further, the other half-build drone structure looks more like a ball (the Death Star?) than a Jove station. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Cobalt Sixty Caldari Intercision	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:52:00 - [132] Originally by: Eventy One Here's proof drones in empire are busy working on a Jovian battle station. What you say? Pics ... or it didn't happen! Ok. That is a really nice find. Either intended or a design oversight on the part of CCP, interesting none the less.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.12 11:02:00 - [133] Well, are you sure it's not just a matter of every futuristic alien-looking construct ending up looking like a pine cone? :)
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:03:00 - [134] Originally by: Jowen Datloran Nice find. It is quite clear that the texture on these two parts are exactly the same. But from this angle the two structures looking nothing alike. On the Jove station the spikes goes away from the central structure while on the drone structure the spikes point towards a gaping hole on the middle of the structure. I agree .. mostly. I think the reason for the difference is the drone structure is under construction. The parts that were done were strikingly similar to the Jove battle-station, except glowing blood red rather than neon green. The textures were close, not exact, but the shapes (the mesh) were dead on (save for the incomplete bottom).
Emanuelle Jasmine Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:32:00 - [135] thats what you call asset recycling CCP mission Dev: I have made a drone mission but i need some new drone structure, make one art dept.! CCP art guy: I will just reuse this never-used jovian station and color change all green to red, no one will ever know and you have your model ready today. CCP mission dev: Great, GOGO rapid mission development! ... months later EVE player with no life at all: w00t!!! after all this years of comparing art ingame to find proof for my tinfoilhattery, this drone structure looks like a jovian battlestation! my life was not fn vein!
Raydn James Erlang Biolabs Mass - Effect	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:37:00 - [136] Originally by: Eventy One Here's proof drones in empire are busy working on a Jovian battle station. What you say? Pics ... or it didn't happen! Ok. dude, your armor... [sorry, had too]
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:10:00 - [137] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Jowen Datloran Nice find. It is quite clear that the texture on these two parts are exactly the same. But from this angle the two structures looking nothing alike. On the Jove station the spikes goes away from the central structure while on the drone structure the spikes point towards a gaping hole on the middle of the structure. I agree .. mostly. I think the reason for the difference is the drone structure is under construction. The parts that were done were strikingly similar to the Jove battle-station, except glowing blood red rather than neon green. The textures were close, not exact, but the shapes (the mesh) were dead on (save for the incomplete bottom). The similarity is striking but this is old IIRC... At this point I wouldn't place too much faith on old ingame info... We know that it's contradictory in some cases. Anyway what can we obtain from this knowledge? Perhaps the rogue drones found somewhere Jovian info? Perhaps these particular drones are no longer "Rogue" but have been enslaved again by the jove? Perhaps they found the hulk of an ancient Jove construct? Or, more likely, they used the same model without thinking about background info... That imho should be the default assumption regarding old "background" info, basically everything that is in the empire and predates Apocrypha (unless it can be reasonably proved otherwise)
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:12:00 - [138] Edited by: Eventy One on 12/07/2010 14:12:55 Originally by: Raydn James dude, your armor... [sorry, had too] You try taking on hundreds of drones in only a frigate! (Well ... OK ... maybe not hundreds ... but at least 30!) Notice what the showinfo says for the drone construct: This gigantic superstructure was built by the effort of thousands of rogue drones. While the structure appears to be incomplete, its intended shape remains a mystery to the cluess carbon-baed lifeforms.
Ebisu Kami	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:19:00 - [139] Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 14:25:19 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac The similarity is striking but this is old IIRC... At this point I wouldn't place too much faith on old ingame info... We know that it's contradictory in some cases. Anyway what can we obtain from this knowledge? Perhaps the rogue drones found somewhere Jovian info? Perhaps these particular drones are no longer "Rogue" but have been enslaved again by the jove? Perhaps they found the hulk of an ancient Jove construct? Or, more likely, they used the same model without thinking about background info... That imho should be the default assumption regarding old "background" info, basically everything that is in the empire and predates Apocrypha (unless it can be reasonably proved otherwise) There are some really really minor aspects, which have some similarity, but talking about "having the same model" is so far from beeing even remotly the case... It's like assuming that the Omen is a Calamari-ship, because it looks like a bird, which Calamari are known to name their ships after.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:32:00 - [140] Originally by: Ebisu Kami Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 14:25:19 There are some really really minor aspects, which have some similarity, but talking about "having the same model" is so far from beeing even remotly the case... It's like assuming that the Omen is a Calamari-ship, because it looks like a bird, which Calamari are known to name their ships after. "Minor aspects"? Did you even look up at those images? Also model != texture. Yes the mesh are different (and not all that different, mostly it's just a recolouring. But the base model is pretty much the same, with the exception that the drone structure is made to look as if incomplete (it even says that much in the show info), while the Jovian structure is complete. Like I said it looks to me as if it's just a case of asset recycling, and not really a tidbit of info about something that is happening between Jove and Drones, at least not until we find more info that points in the same direction

Ebisu Kami	Posted - 2010.07.12 15:29:00 - [141] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac "Minor aspects"? Did you even look up at those images? Also model != texture. Yes the mesh are different (and not all that different, mostly it's just a recolouring. But the base model is pretty much the same, with the exception that the drone structure is made to look as if incomplete (it even says that much in the show info), while the Jovian structure is complete. Like I said it looks to me as if it's just a case of asset recycling, and not really a tidbit of info about something that is happening between Jove and Drones, at least not until we find more info that points in the same direction Do I really have to point out that gigantic gaping hole right in the middle, where the actual main-body of the Jove-station would be? Really all that looks even remotely similar are those pylons and they could very well just be scrap-parts salvaged by the rogue drones, from a long lost and abandoned Jove-Station.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:12:00 - [142] Edited by: Eventy One on 12/07/2010 16:17:50 Originally by: Ebisu Kami Do I really have to point out that gigantic gaping hole right in the middle, where the actual main-body of the Jove-station would be? Really all that looks even remotely similar are those pylons and they could very well just be scrap-parts salvaged by the rogue drones, from a long lost and abandoned Jove-Station. Before you do - please read the description of the item again. Let me help: IT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!! Items under construction, generally ARE NOT FINISHED. I don't disagree that the drones could merely be using Jove technology (rather than building a station) but that also raises the obvious question where did they get that technology in the first place in empire? Do you happen to know of any other Jove battle-stations in empire? What about old Jove scrap heaps?
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:41:00 - [143] We do know that there is plenty of Jove scrap around in our part of space, even if we as players do not see it. For example, that is how the Angels developed their ships. Further, the Empyrian Age novel does mention that the Jove have been cloaking objects they do not want others to find. But huge swarms of drones would be bound to bump into these at some point or another. I will stand by the salvage theory unless you can show other drone structures or artifacts that looks anything Jove. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Ebisu Kami	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:47:00 - [144] Originally by: Eventy One Before you do - please read the description of the item again. Let me help: IT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!! And you would start constructing a space-station by building the things that are located most remote from the central point of the station, even before you constructed any core-structure? Beyond that, rogue-drones do not even need anything like a space-station, given they are not depending on any kind of athmosphere or sealed gravity-environment to survive. Them building a space-station for their own use is like ants building a submarine. All they need is a place where they can get shelter, raw materials, can repair themselves and reproduce, not a Jove-Space-Station-Lookalike. Literally any landfill suits their needs and wasting time and resources on non-efficient things like aesthetical design are clearly beyond their needs, as is clearly proven in various exploration-sites. Originally by: Eventy One I don't disagree that the drones could merely be using Jove technology (rather than building a station) but that also raises the obvious question where did they get that technology in the first place in empire? Do you happen to know of any other Jove battle-stations in empire? What about old Jove scrap heaps? Oh come on. There's more then enough space for ancient and derelict things drifting around, which could be afloat since millenias and nobody would have ever come across. If your arguement were valid, then how did all the pirate-complexes were able to be established in Empire-space, that thousands of players burn down for missions and explorations? These remains there could be thousands of years old or could just as well derive from a massive rogue-drone-invasion of a remote Jove-outpost. Jove plotting with Rogue-drones and showing them how to build "obvious" Jove-stations right in the eyesight of everyone, doesn't really stand Okham's Razor.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:05:00 - [145] Originally by: Ebisu Kami Jove plotting with Rogue-drones and showing them how to build "obvious" Jove-stations right in the eyesight of everyone, doesn't really stand Okham's Razor. Woah! The argument is not that the Jove are plotting with rogue drones. No one made that assertion. I made the assertion the Drones were building a Jovian station. I provided pics. Your assertion was that they looked nothing alike. I and others have pointed out that they look remarkably alike. Lets not set up a staw-man to argue against.
Ebisu Kami	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:12:00 - [146] Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 17:19:30 Originally by: Eventy One The argument is not that the Jove are plotting with rogue drones. No one made that assertion. I made the assertion the Drones were building a Jovian station. Then give me one sensible reason, why, according to your interpretation, rogue-drones are building a Jove Space Station. For themselves? I really doubt that, because they simply have no need for an air-sealed gravity-environment and hence would never ever invest precious ressources and energy into that. Altruistic behaviour because they like the Jove and want to make them a nice gift? Right... Because Rogue-drones like the looks of Jove design? Oh come on... But hey, maybe the Rogue-drones worship the Jove and believe, that they can summon Jove by building something where Jove are usually around?
Raydn James Erlang Biolabs Mass - Effect	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:20:00 - [147] Originally by: Ebisu Kami But hey, maybe the Rogue-drones worship the Jove and believe, that they can summon Jove by building something where Jove are usually around? If you build it, they will come. Hey, It's worked before.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:20:00 - [148] Originally by: Ebisu Kami Then give me one sensible reason, why, according to your interpretation, rogue-drones are building a Jove Space Station. Like all story lines involving the drones I wouldn't presume to know their motivations. I know simply that they are either building a Jovian station, or they are building a hive using a Jovian station. Either of those scenarios are intriguing.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.07.12 20:22:00 - [149] Originally by: Ebisu Kami But hey, maybe the Rogue-drones worship the Jove and believe, that they can summon Jove by building something where Jove are usually around? Strangely similar to Cargo Cults
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.07.12 20:39:00 - [150] I have seen that before, and that doesnt prove anything about drones building a jove battlestation or what ever. Ever consider that the jove lost to them and it is now infested? What about the drone dominixes? See this is why i dont RP, politics and speculation is worse than 0.0 politics. Plus im willing to bet its an oversight from CCP cause those have been in lvl 4 missions for a long time. Plus i have also seen it in some cosmos missions where it said it was a drone hive, yadda yadda yadda. ok my point, CCP re-uses a lot of models to do stuff. As they saying goes, believe only half of what you see, and nothing that you hear

Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:12:00 - [151] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I have seen that before, and that doesnt prove anything about drones building a jove battlestation or what ever. Ever consider that the jove lost to them and it is now infested? What about the drone dominixes? See this is why i dont RP, politics and speculation is worse than 0.0 politics. Plus im willing to bet its an oversight from CCP cause those have been in lvl 4 missions for a long time. Plus i have also seen it in some cosmos missions where it said it was a drone hive, yadda yadda yadda. ok my point, CCP re-uses a lot of models to do stuff. As they saying goes, believe only half of what you see, and nothing that you hear While on this specific matter I do agree, please restrain yourself: on other matters (namely, the sleepers), the background is much more consistent and the hints are intentional, like it's been stated many times by different devs. Once again, unless we find any info from other sources that can lead us to think that the model is not JUST that, a reused model with no obscure meaning, I beg you all to leave it there and get back to Sleeper thing.
Mithfindel Aseyakone	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:35:00 - [152] I provided my comments on the Jove station thing in-character in the Summit. It is established in fiction that the Rogue Drones incorporate ready structures to their hives. While some hives begin as a Drone Silo, some hives are built in pre-existing structures. Additionally, the location of the structure isn't that important, since the Drones do have the habit of splitting overgrown hives and then move the parts in different locations so that they can continue to grow. Of course, if that is the split of a drone hive drifted over the years from Curse, where the Jove had their old empires... yeah, wouldn't want to see the Mother Hive. And there's likely a ton of other hives on the route.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 03:53:00 - [153] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac While on this specific matter I do agree, please restrain yourself: on other matters (namely, the sleepers), the background is much more consistent and the hints are intentional, like it's been stated many times by different devs. Once again, unless we find any info from other sources that can lead us to think that the model is not JUST that, a reused model with no obscure meaning, I beg you all to leave it there and get back to Sleeper thing. I'd love to know how you know which 'clues' are intentional and which ones aren't.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.13 08:05:00 - [154] Edited by: Pottsey on 13/07/2010 08:06:42 Ebisu Kami said ôBeyond that, rogue-drones do not even need anything like a space-station, given they are not depending on any kind of athmosphere or sealed gravity-environment to survive.ö ôThen give me one sensible reason, why, according to your interpretation, rogue-drones are building a Jove Space Stationö Now thatÆs easy. A station makes perfect sense. According to the recent rogue drone chronicle in Eon the drones are experimenting on humans. They have labs and chamber after chamber of humans to test with. Keeping those humans alive requires a suitable gravity-environment and atmosphere to survive. The drones have also been building/cloning human bodyÆs to walk amongst us. In the story one of the Characters pretty much said everything we know about rogue drones is out-dated and wrong right before a drone I think downloaded its self into her body. Anyway to expend the operations the drones building a station make sence. Even if drones do not need atmosphere or gravity-environment to survive. Building a station still make sense as they might want a place for research labs, manufacture labs and the like. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.13 09:54:00 - [155] On the drone dommies, from the chronicle. Gallentian scientists wanted to create drones that could act on their own, some of these drones were huge and and had their own warp drives. They became unruly and buggered off. Also, Creodron is known for using a very modified dominix as their floating lab.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 13:43:00 - [156] Originally by: Pottsey According to the recent rogue drone chronicle in Eon the drones are experimenting on humans. They have labs and chamber after chamber of humans to test with. Keeping those humans alive requires a suitable gravity-environment and atmosphere to survive. The drones have also been building/cloning human bodyÆs to walk amongst us. In the story one of the Characters pretty much said everything we know about rogue drones is out-dated and wrong right before a drone I think downloaded its self into her body. Now that's just frightening. And the behavior of 'downloading oneself into a human body, is reminiscent of both Sansha's and the sleepers. I don't get EON. Where they 'normal', 'run-of-the-mill' drones in this story? Behaviors such as this certainly do suggest that there is more to the drones we see all the time.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.13 13:46:00 - [157] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Pottsey According to the recent rogue drone chronicle in Eon the drones are experimenting on humans. They have labs and chamber after chamber of humans to test with. Keeping those humans alive requires a suitable gravity-environment and atmosphere to survive. The drones have also been building/cloning human bodyÆs to walk amongst us. In the story one of the Characters pretty much said everything we know about rogue drones is out-dated and wrong right before a drone I think downloaded its self into her body. Now that's just frightening. And the behavior of 'downloading oneself into a human body, is reminiscent of both Sansha's and the sleepers. I don't get EON. Where they 'normal', 'run-of-the-mill' drones in this story? Behaviors such as this certainly do suggest that there is more to the drones we see all the time. There is this 'New Frontier' mission line (lvl3) that has some human professor living around rogue drones and later becoming one of them by turning into some kind of nano-goo, infecting other ships. Maybe they're not trying to download into people but upload people into the hive. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 13:59:00 - [158] Edited by: Eventy One on 13/07/2010 14:00:53 Originally by: Abrazzar There is this 'New Frontier' mission line (lvl3) that has some human professor living around rogue drones and later becoming one of them by turning into some kind of nano-goo, infecting other ships. Maybe they're not trying to download into people but upload people into the hive. This is interesting. Where do you find this mission? We all have our theories, and of course we won't know until we know. My own theory is that the sleepers, who were experts in virtual reality (from COSMOS data) are trapped in their virtual reality. Notice that the re-emergence of Sansa's has only happened after re-exposure to the sleepers? No Sansha's is an imperfect mix of man/machine. If the sleepers are indeed trapped in virtual reality, and wished to escape, what would be the perfect platform to re-emerge alive from a virtual reality? Perhaps a dormant Sansha slave, with enough computing power to take the download, and enough humanity, to escape a virtual reality prison. As far as the normal drones are concerned, I know they were created by the Gallente (chronicles), but we don't know how they became sentient (other than an 'accident'). One possibility, (fraught with problems perhaps), may be that sentience may have been given to them by sleepers. This last idea would require that we explain how sleepers were able to access k-space prior to the opening up of the wormholes. Here there be dragons. Even so CCP Dropbears cryptic comments have fueled much of this debate/speculation, and so a little latitude is warranted until we obtain further clues. (*CCP Dropbear, if you're reading this, this should be taken as a clue from the players to GET ON WITH DROPPING MORE CLUES*)
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.07.13 14:11:00 - [159] Originally by: Ebisu Kami Then give me one sensible reason, why, according to your interpretation, rogue-drones are building a Jove Space Station. For themselves? I really doubt that, because they simply have no need for an air-sealed gravity-environment and hence would never ever invest precious ressources and energy into that. Perhaps they're planning on having humanoid drones soon. Could be the 'bad guys' for Inacrna. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.13 14:48:00 - [160] Eventy One said ôI don't get EON. Where they 'normal', 'run-of-the-mill' drones in this story? Behaviors such as this certainly do suggest that there is more to the drones we see all the time.ö It confirmed what we expected. Worker droned are just that run of the mill basic drones doing a job. But each hive has more intelligent drone(s) that run things. Hives are not united each hive is its own individual mind with each mind having its own goals. It went on to say some hives ignore humans, some hives sturdy humans and listed what other hives thought of humans. By hive I think itÆs more like a Queen Bee type setup. Not a hive with all the drones linked together as one intelligence. More worked drones that follow what the queen drone says. Although I am not sure the word queen is the best worse to use. This one hive was trying to unite all the other hives and drone minds against humans via shared hatred of us. He didnÆt want to wipe out humans. He wanted to reduce humans down to a few million and leave them all on one planet in a controlled environment. I didnÆt explain the body bit very well. What the drone mind did was clone a body from a captured human. Used parts of that humanÆs memory in the body but tweaked and removed bits. This human did not know she was created by the drones. She still thought she was the original person. As for the downloading bit I will speak to you in game about it. I would like your interpretation as it didnÆt say the drone was downloading into bodies. It just strongly sounded like it. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2

Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.13 20:17:00 - [161] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Gecko O'Bac While on this specific matter I do agree, please restrain yourself: on other matters (namely, the sleepers), the background is much more consistent and the hints are intentional, like it's been stated many times by different devs. Once again, unless we find any info from other sources that can lead us to think that the model is not JUST that, a reused model with no obscure meaning, I beg you all to leave it there and get back to Sleeper thing. I'd love to know how you know which 'clues' are intentional and which ones aren't. I don't, but a single "structure" that uses the same model as a jovian structure, especially since it's been there for quite a while IIRC, quite before the new zones and the new interest in the background of eve, doesn't sound to me like a clue just coincidence and asset recycling (By ccp, not drones). Like I said though, if we get other, DIFFERENT things that point in this direction then I'm all for reviewing my position. That said: all the info on the rogue drones is interesting, though I would say it's necessarily linked to Sleepers, Jovians or Sansha... Perhaps they are evolving on their own. Emergent systems are just that: stupid agents (like the drones) that cooperate to create something bigger, demonstrating a collective intelligence superior to the sum of the parts. That's probably what's happening with drones.
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 21:23:00 - [162] Keep in mind that in The Eighth Plague story, which was written in 2005, the rogue drones infiltrated a member of Amarr politics, and influenced the Amarr Empire to withdraw forces from the area where their hive was. They've been manipulating humans and capsuleers for a while now, we just haven't noticed.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.13 22:35:00 - [163] Originally by: Nybbas Keep in mind that in The Eighth Plague story, which was written in 2005, the rogue drones infiltrated a member of Amarr politics, and influenced the Amarr Empire to withdraw forces from the area where their hive was. They've been manipulating humans and capsuleers for a while now, we just haven't noticed. Yeah but... How much of it has resonance in game? I mean, IIRC in 2005 there wasn't much activity... The rp events were kinda... Standalone? Not like what's going on now... Somebody got a hand on the helm and steered on the right course finally, but there's probably some "retconning" to do, at least as far as ingame info goes.
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 22:54:00 - [164] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Yeah but... How much of it has resonance in game? I mean, IIRC in 2005 there wasn't much activity... The rp events were kinda... Standalone? Not like what's going on now... Somebody got a hand on the helm and steered on the right course finally, but there's probably some "retconning" to do, at least as far as ingame info goes. The story of Eve Online was written long, long before it became available to us.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.13 23:21:00 - [165] Originally by: Nybbas Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Yeah but... How much of it has resonance in game? I mean, IIRC in 2005 there wasn't much activity... The rp events were kinda... Standalone? Not like what's going on now... Somebody got a hand on the helm and steered on the right course finally, but there's probably some "retconning" to do, at least as far as ingame info goes. The story of Eve Online was written long, long before it became available to us. Possible but unlikely. With unlikely I mean that it's unlikely that what was written 8 9 or 10 years ago is still completely valid. Much more likely there have been rewrites, especially since not all of the original guys working on eve are working on it now, and with the addition of White Wolf to CCP's assets, they probably have better storytellers than they had at the beginning. Also, storyline is also tied to what happens in game, and what happens in game is tied to what features get released. While CCP has a lot of foresight and planning when it comes to features (Incarna has been in the plans for a long time, factional warfare as well, and so on), I doubt (and I will till a CCP employee brings me the proof I'm wrong) that they had known, for examples, that they were going to introduce T3s through the interaction with the Sleeper race and all the background info that was released at the same time. Or that when eve launched they knew the Sanshas would get through Sleeper space into Jovian space to do whatever... And EVEN IF ALL OF THAT WAS TRUE, ingame info at the start of the game was different in places... Different missions, different models, different everything. It's modified at least a couple of times. I strongly believe that while they do it with a lot of foreplanning, the storyline of EVE is quite fluid and evolving, not already planned till its ending.
Saul Dhampir Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.07.14 00:10:00 - [166] Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 14/07/2010 00:11:40 Here and on this other thread, there has been much analysis of Sleeper structures. There is also a lot of speculation about the respective time periods with which each culture existed. Looking at the descriptions of Talocan structures a few things stand out that may be worth further consideration: - Talcoan society was mobile: ôThe central piece of this Talocan station is the Polestar, the nerve center of the complex and the heart of Talocan survival. Though dilapidated and unusable, the Polestar¦s outer hull is breached in many parts. Its propulsion jets and mini-generators are destroyed and decaying. From the burn marks around the propulsion thrusters, this Polestar has been jettisoned many times as a necessary structure for a migrant culture, but in this condition the Polestar¦s current location will remain its last.ö - It was suggested in these theads that there was a similarity between the Talocan and ancient American societies, in particular about the use of slaves: ôAmidst the ruins of this Talocan outpost, the exchange depot looms, its presence foreboding. Judging from the wreckage inside, the depot was either used for imprisonment or cultural exchange; eerily, there seems to be very little difference between the two. Whatever its purpose, this structure is rather prevalent among the outposts, displaying its importance in Talocan society.ö
Myrkala Minmatar Interstellar Empire Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.07.14 02:06:00 - [167] "I've figured it out! Sleepers are inactive accounts!" - Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Minmatar? More like Winmatar.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.14 06:55:00 - [168] Originally by: Saul Dhampir It was suggested in these theads that there was a similarity between the Talocan and ancient American societies, in particular about the use of slaves: ôAmidst the ruins of this Talocan outpost, the exchange depot looms, its presence foreboding. Judging from the wreckage inside, the depot was either used for imprisonment or cultural exchange; eerily, there seems to be very little difference between the two. Whatever its purpose, this structure is rather prevalent among the outposts, displaying its importance in Talocan society.ö Which is interesting because this idea has gone around and come back again - that the ancient races are just different names for the modern ones. I may be wrong but the region that seems to produce the most ancient Talocan items was the Minmatar COSMOS site. Similarly, the Yan Jung items are found in Gallente Space, Takmahl technology found in Araz (Amarr) leaving the sleepers for the Caldari COSMOS site.
lisuuu	Posted - 2010.07.14 08:05:00 - [169] Originally by: Emanuelle Jasmine thats what you call asset recycling CCP mission Dev: I have made a drone mission but i need some new drone structure, make one art dept.! CCP art guy: I will just reuse this never-used jovian station and color change all green to red, no one will ever know and you have your model ready today. CCP mission dev: Great, GOGO rapid mission development! ... months later EVE player with no life at all: w00t!!! after all this years of comparing art ingame to find proof for my tinfoilhattery, this drone structure looks like a jovian battlestation! my life was not fn vein! Epic win!
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.14 10:53:00 - [170] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Saul Dhampir It was suggested in these theads that there was a similarity between the Talocan and ancient American societies, in particular about the use of slaves: ôAmidst the ruins of this Talocan outpost, the exchange depot looms, its presence foreboding. Judging from the wreckage inside, the depot was either used for imprisonment or cultural exchange; eerily, there seems to be very little difference between the two. Whatever its purpose, this structure is rather prevalent among the outposts, displaying its importance in Talocan society.ö Which is interesting because this idea has gone around and come back again - that the ancient races are just different names for the modern ones. I may be wrong but the region that seems to produce the most ancient Talocan items was the Minmatar COSMOS site. Similarly, the Yan Jung items are found in Gallente Space, Takmahl technology found in Araz (Amarr) leaving the sleepers for the Caldari COSMOS site. This is certainly a possibility, at least for some races... Though we must remember that while central europeans do descend from the Romans, they are not, certainly, Roman anymore (even though they may still use buildings, structures and even parts of the language). Also it's possible that the current races come from splinters of the old ones, otherwise a loss of technology so comprehensive would be hard to explain... And finally I believe that the Amarr were there from the beginning, in some form or other, and they went through a religious dark age that slowed their progress. Thus there may be traces of the Amarr empire of old (or whatever the old Amarr race was called...)

Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.07.14 11:04:00 - [171] I've spent a good year and a half researching the topic of Ancients, Jove, Enheduanni etc. etc. and even started writing a novel of sorts to depict my findings after some discussions with the info Pottsey already found and archived. Even attempted to contact CCP story writers for more info so i could accuratly fill in the blanks but ofcourse that request was shot down due to apparant reasons . Shortly after i finished the story board and made the first few chapters CCP decided in their infinite wisdom to start including actual and new lore about the Sleepers and to a lesser extent the Talocan so my storyboard became obsolete with every new patch of info that became available, disabling me to continue the story i was trying to unfold since it no longer depicted the "truth" i formed from all previous info found. All in all i now conclude that while there is alot of information to be found everywhere, CCP story writers are laughing their collective balls of at us ants trying to solve the puzzle while we might not even have 1/10th of the neccessary information required to actually get anywhere usefull. This mainly since their story material is probably intertwined with 5-10 of the coming expansions and us running the stories before they are released is ofcourse a killjoy. Sure there's alot of information available but even with the utmost basic and very cryptic hints CCP story people have given us there is no way those can lead to decyphering the enigma in the coming future. There is probably information in ALL the chronicles and ig/oog sources like missions/EON/novels etc but without a direct link to the particular information described many will stay hidden until it is revealed that the information in fact has something to do with the main story itself. The history of EvE and it's story is he thick red line through all that happens within EvE but 9/10th of the red line hasn't been drawn yet. Like i said before; all we are atm is ants running around blatant to the truth of the bigger picture since we've been trapped on an island surrounded by water. Once the supreme beings build a new bridge for us we'll get a bit further but only to the next island. Until all is revealed the supreme beings (CCP) are laughing their balls off with reading what theories we all put forth. That said, perhaps one lucky sob will guess the whole thing out of the blue and it still won't be acknowleged by CCP ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.14 12:15:00 - [172] Originally by: Freyya I've spent a good year and a half researching the topic of Ancients, Jove, Enheduanni etc. etc. and even started writing a novel of sorts to depict my findings after some discussions with the info Pottsey already found and archived. Even attempted to contact CCP story writers for more info so i could accuratly fill in the blanks but ofcourse that request was shot down due to apparant reasons . Shortly after i finished the story board and made the first few chapters CCP decided in their infinite wisdom to start including actual and new lore about the Sleepers and to a lesser extent the Talocan so my storyboard became obsolete with every new patch of info that became available, disabling me to continue the story i was trying to unfold since it no longer depicted the "truth" i formed from all previous info found. All in all i now conclude that while there is alot of information to be found everywhere, CCP story writers are laughing their collective balls of at us ants trying to solve the puzzle while we might not even have 1/10th of the neccessary information required to actually get anywhere usefull. This mainly since their story material is probably intertwined with 5-10 of the coming expansions and us running the stories before they are released is ofcourse a killjoy. Sure there's alot of information available but even with the utmost basic and very cryptic hints CCP story people have given us there is no way those can lead to decyphering the enigma in the coming future. There is probably information in ALL the chronicles and ig/oog sources like missions/EON/novels etc but without a direct link to the particular information described many will stay hidden until it is revealed that the information in fact has something to do with the main story itself. The history of EvE and it's story is he thick red line through all that happens within EvE but 9/10th of the red line hasn't been drawn yet. Like i said before; all we are atm is ants running around blatant to the truth of the bigger picture since we've been trapped on an island surrounded by water. Once the supreme beings build a new bridge for us we'll get a bit further but only to the next island. Until all is revealed the supreme beings (CCP) are laughing their balls off with reading what theories we all put forth. That said, perhaps one lucky sob will guess the whole thing out of the blue and it still won't be acknowleged by CCP Happiness is a voyage, not a destination.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.14 12:26:00 - [173] Ants I would say not, but people here are more dreamers than investigators; they come of with the explanation (story) that they like the best themselves instead of the one most evidence support. To support their story, they only regard the few pieces of the puzzle and dismiss all remaining pieces as non-relevant or something others can have the task of fitting into the explanation. Of course, most people know only very few pieces so error is excused. Sure, this is a fictional mystery made by somebody at CCP but hey, CIS is fiction mysteries too and they manage to be quite entertaining to follow and solve in advance. Of course we must assume the guys who made the Sleeper mystery are true to old RPG Game Master ideals and have already put all clues needed in the game and do not change the story of the mystery halfway through. I expect those things to be in order or this mystery is unsolvable. I have started collecting pieces of the puzzle and it might not be so difficult to solve after all. And I bet ya; if what I stated about solving the mystery is true, CCPs Storyline Team will never come out and say "you solved it!" to somebody shooting of unsupported speculations. All pieces must fit before the mystery is solved. The Soduku is on. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Leviathan9 Gallente Astrophysical Engineering War and Pestilence	Posted - 2010.07.14 13:14:00 - [174] Edited by: Leviathan9 on 14/07/2010 13:14:46 Originally by: Madner Kami Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 10:06:11 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Myrkala: Ahem... What's the Monolith? :D First and foremost, a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey, a movie by Stanley Kubrick. Oddly enough it also makes a cameo in w-space: http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3593/monolith.png Actually it can be found in one of the systems (I forget which) near EVE Gate. Edit: Seems i've already been beaten to it, Dead End system Planet 5, Moon 5. ---------------------------
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.14 13:32:00 - [175] Jowen I totally agree with you. And although CCP wont tell you that you have solved a piece of the puzzle CCP Dropbear almost literally said that the game will and it will give you a little more enigma to follow like it did with Asbalon. Secretly Im hoping there are some nice sleeper drone or Talocan BPOs at the end of this but probably not. On the drone thing. There is in Gallente cosmos an agent that is a drone and it lives in one of those silos. It used to be a Jove but last time i checked it was part of ORE. It is a level 1 missions but you need to take out a mother drone so bring something that can meaning serous DPS. Also it lives somewhere at a moon so you need to look for it.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.15 19:28:00 - [176] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe Jowen I totally agree with you. And although CCP wont tell you that you have solved a piece of the puzzle CCP Dropbear almost literally said that the game will and it will give you a little more enigma to follow like it did with Asbalon. Secretly Im hoping there are some nice sleeper drone or Talocan BPOs at the end of this but probably not. On the drone thing. There is in Gallente cosmos an agent that is a drone and it lives in one of those silos. It used to be a Jove but last time i checked it was part of ORE. It is a level 1 missions but you need to take out a mother drone so bring something that can meaning serous DPS. Also it lives somewhere at a moon so you need to look for it. She still IS Jove. She WORKS for ORE. But see, this is exactly it .. Jowen says that each player has their own theories, while ignoring the other bits as inconsequential. CCP Dropbear says players haven't figured it out. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED DIALOGUE. If there is a puzzle hidden within in-game content, and players tend to ignore stuff as inconsequential, talking about it in the forums, between players, will convince some, that an item they thought was consequential was not. Here's an example. In game there is a Sansha's agent who IS Jovian. In the Jove channel, (like more than a year ago) I use to ponder that tid-bit, and was constantly told - it is not important. Likewise, there is an unreachable Jove agent who likewise has standings with Sansha's and no other faction. We could look up on these clues as meaningless, but given recent in-game news events - its nearly impossible to conclude anything other than CCP has been planning this business for a while now. There are still other clues - that are deemed inconsequential. Why is there a Jove working for the Angels for example? Or Serpentis? This purpose of this thread was originally to see if we couldn't find some way to get these threads all on the table to be seen by all, and get dialog going. If CCP Dropbears not pulling our legs - I would personally love to contribute to solving that puzzle.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.15 20:00:00 - [177] Edited by: Pottsey on 15/07/2010 20:02:27 Gecko O'Bac said "I don't, but a single "structure" that uses the same model as a jovian structure, especially since it's been there for quite a while IIRC, quite before the new zones and the new interest in the background of eve, doesn't sound to me like a clue just coincidence and asset recycling (By ccp, not drones). Like I said though, if we get other, DIFFERENT things that point in this direction then I'm all for reviewing my position." Its more than just that one structure Auwnie Morohe reminded me of the Jove looking drones. Why this took me so long to post I have no idea, it just never crossed my mind till now. Not only do we have the drones building a Jove like structure. But we have a drone projecting a Jove imagine when you talk to it with a Jove bloodline description and the drone gives Jove standings if you do a mission for it. It seems to me to be a little more than just asset recycling. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Razoq Gallente Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.15 20:32:00 - [178] The Reapers!!
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.15 20:53:00 - [179] Originally by: Pottsey Like I said though, if we get other, DIFFERENT things that point in this direction then I'm all for reviewing my position." Its more than just that one structure Auwnie Morohe reminded me of the Jove looking drones. Why this took me so long to post I have no idea, it just never crossed my mind till now. Not only do we have the drones building a Jove like structure. But we have a drone projecting a Jove imagine when you talk to it with a Jove bloodline description and the drone gives Jove standings if you do a mission for it. It seems to me to be a little more than just asset recycling. Pottsey .. I don't think you've told me about this one ...
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.15 21:58:00 - [180] Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 15/07/2010 21:58:10 Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Pottsey Like I said though, if we get other, DIFFERENT things that point in this direction then I'm all for reviewing my position." Its more than just that one structure Auwnie Morohe reminded me of the Jove looking drones. Why this took me so long to post I have no idea, it just never crossed my mind till now. Not only do we have the drones building a Jove like structure. But we have a drone projecting a Jove imagine when you talk to it with a Jove bloodline description and the drone gives Jove standings if you do a mission for it. It seems to me to be a little more than just asset recycling. Pottsey .. I don't think you've told me about this one ... Yeah this is indeed interesting. And since it gives Jove standings I doubt it's simply a misplacement. It may be indeed something worth investigating (if at all possible). Certainly puts the drone/jove station under a new light.

Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.16 00:37:00 - [181] I think a lot of people like to keep ahead of people and are very hesitant to share information. I know I am, mostly because I have only known about the sleeper mystery for a week and am catching up with the rest. Also I think there are not a whole lot of us actively doing this. Eve is not known for being story driven MMO even though it has a lot of very good story. I mean, because it is a sandbox game one can just ignore the story/rp part and never miss a thing. Other MMOs you can not ignore the story part like missions because that is the only game there is. So I took my own advice and did the Jove Cosmos agent again. And guess what I found. I think most like me have been staring at the little picture in the left hand corner of the Oruze Enclave wondering what that was. And unless it is another case of reusing game art I know what it is.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.16 02:39:00 - [182] Ok. What is Veniel doing in Jita IV-4? Veniel - Jovian that is best known for revealing the secret of Immensea Project to CONCORD.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.16 06:24:00 - [183] Eventy One said "Pottsey .. I don't think you've told me about this one ..." Thought I did unless I confused someone else's alt as being you. The Ore drone mind that has a Jove portrait (projected). Speaks in binary and has a Jove modifier description. She hangs around in Gallente empire space. When you do her mission your Jove standings go up a little. Auwnie Morohe said "So I took my own advice and did the Jove Cosmos agent again. And guess what I found. I think most like me have been staring at the little picture in the left hand corner of the Oruze Enclave wondering what that was. And unless it is another case of reusing game art I know what it is. " Please share your findings. Or if you dont want to public post it, send me an Eve mail. Its just I have done the Cosmos missions so cannot take the mission again. When I did it, was years back long before wormhole space so I cannot remember. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
DrvonNeuman	Posted - 2010.07.16 07:13:00 - [184] Oruze: Over millenia words may have been slurred together, and their original letters miscopied or changed. One possibility might be that Oruze could be broken down into: Aurium, Aur, Oro, and Lumen, luz or light. So, it might be Golden Light. The old ones might have been able to harness (to the greatest degree) the stars, forming new wormholes to an unknown place. The rift stuctures I have seen in here might be early attempts at making and controlling proto-stars. They may have tried collapsing these into gravity wells so strong that they severely warp space-time -- forming wormholes. Maybe the rift structures are still operational. They might have been controlling collapsing stars with their conscious minds and travelling through them to "another" not yet seen place. Maybe they initially transferred their minds to the stars (or networked stars) as the control system -- while their bodies hibernated in the installations. Maybe they are still there. Like ancient Golden Sun Gods and their...Chariots.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.16 07:53:00 - [185] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 16/07/2010 07:52:48 I am not afraid to share my findings. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.16 08:27:00 - [186] Edited by: Auwnie Morohe on 16/07/2010 08:28:26 For anyone that doesnt know how to use goolge http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Drone_Mind_Embryo
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.16 08:47:00 - [187] Aye but... Strontium Clathrates I think you are seeing things that aren't there. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
Nikilaiki Ruutarhara Caldari Project Daedalid	Posted - 2010.07.16 11:21:00 - [188] Originally by: DrvonNeuman Oruze: Over millenia words may have been slurred together, and their original letters miscopied or changed. One possibility might be that Oruze could be broken down into: Aurium, Aur, Oro, and Lumen, luz or light. So, it might be Golden Light. The old ones might have been able to harness (to the greatest degree) the stars, forming new wormholes to an unknown place. The rift stuctures I have seen in here might be early attempts at making and controlling proto-stars. They may have tried collapsing these into gravity wells so strong that they severely warp space-time -- forming wormholes. Maybe the rift structures are still operational. They might have been controlling collapsing stars with their conscious minds and travelling through them to "another" not yet seen place. Maybe they initially transferred their minds to the stars (or networked stars) as the control system -- while their bodies hibernated in the installations. Maybe they are still there. Like ancient Golden Sun Gods and their...Chariots. Or... you know... it could just roughly translate to sunlight.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.07.16 11:35:00 - [189] So Oruze is on the one hand a thread or line and from some permutations starlight or stars, combining in it threads of stars of lines between the stars which could be wormholes. Lots of conjecture but, hey, it makes sense. -------- All I want is a better management. Signature removed.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.16 12:45:00 - [190] Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 16/07/2010 12:55:15 Originally by: Auwnie Morohe So I took my own advice and did the Jove Cosmos agent again. And guess what I found. I think most like me have been staring at the little picture in the left hand corner of the Oruze Enclave wondering what that was. And unless it is another case of reusing game art I know what it is. Withholding information is basically the antithesis of progress. Please don't, or at least don't come around here and be smug about what you found. That said... The Oruze = sunlight explanation might make sense, afterall the oruze conclave in the Mirror DOES have energy production based on various form of sunlight harvesting. What does this mean for the Oruze Osobnyk complex though, I don't know. P.S.: Very nice info on your pdf Jowen, will take a while to read though. P.P.S.: Dammit Just read some of it... It's great Jowen! Also, I'd like to point THIS out: Quote: Sleeper Preservation Conduit Tiny windows looking out into space offer a glimpse past this structureÆs impressive armor plating and through to the strange sights within. Barely visible in the dim light are rows upon rows of small chambers, stretching out endlessly inside the darkened hallways of this mammoth conduit. A myriad of connective wires interlace with giant pipelines, feeding into every area of the facility. Although they can be seen coiling up through the foundations, the compounds they are ferrying remain a mystery. A strange electronic interference emanates from deep within, pulsing randomly every few seconds. Cryostasis hold anyone?

Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.16 13:01:00 - [191] Quote: There are secrets in this Talocan outpost, and by the looks of it, nobody will be missing these forgotten relics. But acquiring these lost trinkets of technology will not answer that one, nagging, fundamental questions: Why are these two ancient races, so utterly disparate, sharing this space, and to whom does this outpost belong? And this, my friends, is a question we have to try to find an answer to. (from a Forgotten Frontier Recursive Depot (class 3) info)
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.07.16 13:14:00 - [192] Aye, there are not only answers there; even the questions are being highlighted. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
siC0 b0b	Posted - 2010.07.16 13:44:00 - [193] one of the most interesting posts i've read since i've started playing tbh, good read eventy
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2010.07.16 14:29:00 - [194] Edited by: Eventy One on 16/07/2010 14:31:39 Originally by: siC0 b0b one of the most interesting posts i've read since i've started playing tbh, good read eventy Thanks siC0 b0b. People often think EVE is simply about mining .. and Pew Pew - and it is. But that isn't all it is. EVE also has a rich, evolving, sometimes flawed, but always interesting lore. Little credit goes to the content people who create this lore, when they slave away on thankless work ensuring our missions have story's few of us read. I think they treat themselves to the occasional in-game easter egg; as well they should. A bunch of us in the Jove channel and others, already spent a great deal of time finding those little in-game easter eggs CCP employees added, (I suspect often for their own amusement) as yet another play style. Recently, they've taken it further by better integrating storyline, in-game content and re-introducing live events. Backstory is arguably at an all time high. Then comes along a CCP employee who says "We've not discovered all there is to discover in Eve". WHAT?! This suggests that hiding content for players to find and piece together has become an established part of the norm. It's awefully subtle. From this thread .. I don't think it is fair to see we have YET established this as fact. It is still possible CCP Dropbear is having fun with us. But I hope that's not true, for it really is motivational to play to piece these clues together.
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.16 19:22:00 - [195] Gecko : In your example I just about gave you exactly what I had found. I just expected a little effort from the readers. Doing the mission yourself or checking something someone else has found is just smart. Maybe you see something the other person missed. For example the whiskey space pdf from Jowen. I am very grateful for his work but I am still gonna check every single plex in person in a Zephyr and take a good look around. Jowen : I do have a tendency to make connections very easily and a lot of the time they end up nowhere. And when I looked at your link I thought that another avenue of research was closed. But then i read the text and, no way did it just say that. A very big lead i was following just got a whole lot bigger or maybe im just seeing things. Now go do your own home work.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.07.17 06:57:00 - [196] Auwnie Morohe said "I just expected a little effort from the readers. Doing the mission yourself or checking something someone else has found is just smart. Maybe you see something the other person missed." I agree it's worth checking yourself but in this case that's impossible for many of the people involved in sleeper research. Take me, how can I check a mission I did something like 4 years ago that is non repeatable and everyone I know has done it? Plus you have to have the correct standings. I am left here wondering what you are talking about as I have no way of seeing the connection as I cannot remember all those years back in detail. I understand if you don't want to give people as easy ride and you want to give them enough info to do it themselves, I have been known to do that myself. But considering how much I have given to sleeper research and how I cannot repeat your steps even if I want to, I was hoping people would share info with me. Could you please share the info either here or via Eve mail and if I have to I promise not to post it on here or talk about it till someone else has posted the connection. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Auwnie Morohe	Posted - 2010.07.17 09:50:00 - [197] Pottsey : You would have been right. The problem is this is a L1 quality 0 agent with ORE. I doubt many people have bad standings with ORE. Any alt can accept the mission he just has to bring some friends. Then there is google and evelopedia. Gallente_-_High_Security_-_Algintal_constellation Drone_Mind Binary_Transpositional_Code Drone_Mind_Embryo Dropbear said there is very little in the game that is not intended to be there. So if stuff looks alike Im gonna assume it is connected. In this case the Drone mind Embryo, Oruze image on the popup window and, thank you Jowen, Strontium Clathrates. Why would CCP reuse an icon that every pos owner knows what it is in an expansion the size of Apocrypha?
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.17 11:37:00 - [198] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe Dropbear said there is very little in the game that is not intended to be there. So if stuff looks alike Im gonna assume it is connected. In this case the Drone mind Embryo, Oruze image on the popup window and, thank you Jowen, Strontium Clathrates. Why would CCP reuse an icon that every pos owner knows what it is in an expansion the size of Apocrypha? In truth I believe that Dropbear said that comment specifically talking about Apocrypha and Sleeper lore, not anything else. If you reread that comment you will see that it appear as he's talking just about Sleeper things and not the whole Eve lore. That's why I was so skeptic about the rogue drones/jovians thing.
lodik	Posted - 2010.07.17 22:01:00 - [199] I think I have this pretty well figured out and if you don't believe me please state why. The joves gave us capsule tech so that they could monitor our aggression our fun and other emotions so they could recode it into themselves i.e. we are all being used by the joves so they can have their natural instinct back again I.E. this is all a simulated controlled experiment put on by the joves.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.17 22:27:00 - [200] Originally by: lodik I think I have this pretty well figured out and if you don't believe me please state why. The joves gave us capsule tech so that they could monitor our aggression our fun and other emotions so they could recode it into themselves i.e. we are all being used by the joves so they can have their natural instinct back again I.E. this is all a simulated controlled experiment put on by the joves. Sorry but I have to stress this. We want proofs. Speculation is all well and good but it bring us nowhere if it isn't supported by some kind of proof.

lodik	Posted - 2010.07.18 04:23:00 - [201] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac Originally by: lodik I think I have this pretty well figured out and if you don't believe me please state why. The joves gave us capsule tech so that they could monitor our aggression our fun and other emotions so they could recode it into themselves i.e. we are all being used by the joves so they can have their natural instinct back again I.E. this is all a simulated controlled experiment put on by the joves. Sorry but I have to stress this. We want proofs. Speculation is all well and good but it bring us nowhere if it isn't supported by some kind of proof. I don't have proof and you will never get proof if you haven't figured it out ccp isn't going to give you or even let you find all the puzzles that would make players loose interest i.e. product interest, More so they answer questions with more questions to keep you going its a well used tactic. This is what i think about the joves and its pretty spot on if you line everything up and how certain events occurred.
Gecko O'Bac H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.07.19 14:52:00 - [202] Originally by: lodik I don't have proof and you will never get proof if you haven't figured it out ccp isn't going to give you or even let you find all the puzzles that would make players loose interest i.e. product interest, More so they answer questions with more questions to keep you going its a well used tactic. This is what i think about the joves and its pretty spot on if you line everything up and how certain events occurred. Sorry but if had read this thread you would have noticed that there indeed are lots of "proofs". They are in no way definitive, but while we can be sure that the Sleepers, before they went to sleep, studied cryostasis, solar energy, artificial intelligence and network links, saying that they were experts on time travel has no foundation on what we know. I'm not saying you said that, but what you said about the Jove, without something backing you up, has the same value as me saying that the Jove in truth are an alien race mimicing us and trying to see if they can mate with us to further their otherwise sterile lineage. May even be possible but... No proof? Unfounded speculation of no value at all.
Hydoran	Posted - 2010.09.02 01:08:00 - [203] "I'm not saying you said that, but what you said about the Jove, without something backing you up, has the same value as me saying that the Jove in truth are an alien race mimicing us and trying to see if they can mate with us to further their otherwise sterile lineage." I would assume that the Jove has a much stronger grasp of pod tech then we do. I would even go as far as to say there entire race could very well have the ability to take advantage of them so being sterile would be well meaningless. The question I find myself asking is why did the Jove attempt to program out there basic instincts? Do you think having to much knowledge could cause you to regress to a child? The information must go somewhere does it not? 9,000 years is quite a long time perhaps the term disease is just a easy way to explain the bigger problem. The thing I find odd about WH space is where is it and why is it so isolated more so than asking who the Sleepers are. When WH space was introduced to the game it is very clear that something is wrong there but with that said and done I do not think the sleepers want to share anything with us so are they alive and well? Every other race as they become more advanced they build bigger and more destructive weapons. Why haven't they attacked us directly back? It's very possible that they are just as advanced as the Jove. At the very least they are must more advanced than we are so what happens when they whoever they are come back and see there project's damaged as such who will pay for such a disruption? In closing I am curious as if we are all Jove I guess time will tell.
Bennura Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.03 08:54:00 - [204] Dear undercover-eve-store sales reps, Thanks to your conspiracy theories and speculations, I've now purchased your two novels. You got me good! :(
Goremageddon Box Minmatar Xenoarchaeology	Posted - 2010.09.03 09:45:00 - [205] -hand clap- excellent work chaps. Ill add anything i find. <3 _______________________ Hottest Character Ever.
Goremageddon Box Minmatar Xenoarchaeology	Posted - 2010.09.03 09:51:00 - [206] Originally by: lodik I think I have this pretty well figured out and if you don't believe me please state why. The joves gave us capsule tech so that they could monitor our aggression our fun and other emotions so they could recode it into themselves i.e. we are all being used by the joves so they can have their natural instinct back again I.E. this is all a simulated controlled experiment put on by the joves. Let me quote... the warp in saying of WH space Suddenly the illusion of solitude shatters. Slender, articulated obsidian shapes slide toward you from the surrounding darkness of space. Your sensors scream claxons into your auditory cortex as the drones' targeting systems lock onto your ship. You are not alone. Perhaps you never were. maybe thats where our original human being (nonclone) is right now, being controlled by the joves and/or drone mastermind. if the joves bought into the drones, or found a way to come to peace with the drones, then they have probably surely taken it. that can definately include taking as many human beings to sell to the drones and allowing the human beings to be happy in some simulated environment i can see the little character hiding behind all his clones in a big tube somewhere being poked and prodded by the drone/jove lab workers getting all the rich tasty life essence out of us while we think we are pewpewing when were actually getting drained and **. yee... **s deep yo _______________________ Hottest Character Ever.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2010.09.03 10:11:00 - [207] It was all just a dream and we are going to wake up in the shower somewhere in Dallas.
Goremageddon Box Minmatar Xenoarchaeology	Posted - 2010.09.03 10:22:00 - [208] dont drop the soap? _______________________ Hottest Character Ever.
Kendon Riddick	Posted - 2010.09.03 10:49:00 - [209] they are called sleepers for an obvious reason, we become these drones when we sleep, in fact manufactored by drones for dorne minds to inhabit - life as you know it is a lie we are the sleeper matrix. Our consious when we wake as humans is an experiment by the drones as they tey to transcend to bio form from mech.
Goremageddon Box Minmatar Xenoarchaeology	Posted - 2010.09.03 10:53:00 - [210] Originally by: Kendon riddick they are called sleepers for an obvious reason, we become these drones when we sleep, in fact manufactored by drones for dorne minds to inhabit - life as you know it is a lie we are the sleeper matrix. Our consious when we wake as humans is an experiment by the drones as they tey to transcend to bio form from mech. NEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO nooooooo its like the matrix? _______________________ Hottest Character Ever.

Glyken Touchon Gallente Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2010.09.03 11:48:00 - [211] anyone tried to use the Jovian standings to the various other factions to reinforce/diminish some of these ideas?
Goremageddon Box Minmatar Xenoarchaeology	Posted - 2010.09.03 11:53:00 - [212] Originally by: Glyken Touchon anyone tried to use the Jovian standings to the various other factions to reinforce/diminish some of these ideas? duh thats why i do thukker and gallente missions now. xD thukkers are like by teh joves as well as minmatar, also i think sisters of eve or the society but none else if im not mistaken _______________________ Hottest Character Ever.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.09.03 12:40:00 - [213] Very interesting reading! As i¦m no RP Guy at all (never bothered with it) the story "behind" is quite fascinating. I have to admit that i¦ve got difficulties as well to understand and to see the "greater sense" behind it. Anyway carry on, bookmarked so adida can move it whereever she wants.
Leana Darkrider Minmatar Creatio -ex- nihilo The Donkey Rollers	Posted - 2010.09.03 14:42:00 - [214] @ the op, very insteresting read there mate ______________________________________ If only EVE could cook, if only....
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.09.03 14:54:00 - [215] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 03/09/2010 14:58:57 Originally by: DrvonNeuman One possibility might be that Oruze could be broken down into: Aurium, Aur, Oro, and Lumen, luz or light. So, it might be Golden Light. Lux is light, not luz. Have no idea where you got everything except Oro, which does happen to mean gold, but that's still stretching it. Doesn't seem to be based in latin at all. It's Japanese sounding if anything. Moruze for example means 'more' in that language. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.


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