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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Bad Princess Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:38:00 - [1] Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............
Damien Smith Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:40:00 - [2] You always used to get the 'the sky is falling' crowd in but this is something else.
Khors Amtek Inc	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:40:00 - [3] It's not going in cycles, it's constant. However it seem to be peaking right now.
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:41:00 - [4] it comes in waves, and is usually worse in the summer [when lots of CCP are away] --
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:41:00 - [5] Eve has been 'dying' since 2003. Sometimes more audibly than usual but it's always been 'dying'. Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist
Morrow Borric Minmatar Morrow Prime Industries	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:41:00 - [6] Normally i would say yes, but this time it feels different. People aren't whining about a nerf or some element of the game the dislike. But about CCP and its commitment to Eve Online. Either way i'll be watching this one closly. ------------------------------------------ "I used to play Eve Online because I enjoyed how it made me feel, now I play to stop from getting sick."
Celeste Darklighter	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Morrow Borric Normally i would say yes, but this time it feels different. People aren't whining about a nerf or some element of the game the dislike. But about CCP and its commitment to Eve Online. Either way i'll be watching this one closly. What makes this different IMO it's that it's even less connected to reality than usual.
Shar Totanka	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:48:00 - [8] Having played on and off since 2004 I can tell you that all of eve's 12ish expansions havn't been great, but few have involved actual gameplay as little as Tyrannis and likely Incarna. Obviously it's hard to tell if Incarna really adds anything beyond a 3D chat channel, but if it doesn't then they've dedicated the majority of their developers to something that has nothing to do with game for 18 months. I play MAG actively and I can promise you that DUST isn't going to be able to impact eve-online in the way CCP hopes it will. That is if anyone is even using PI when it arrives. That being said I actually do think they're working on fixing the lag, but really, if I were CCP I'd relocate all my developers to areas that have to do with gameplay and not some silly fad. Sure walking in stations is cool, but it's not like anyone actually started playing star-trek online simply because you could walk around with other players.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:49:00 - [9] I remember Red Moon Rising downtime threads. The whining and moaning now is a ** in the rain on a windy day compared to the storms that brewed back then. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by:** CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ I have been playing since 2005, and I can tell you that EVE online have been dying since then! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.

Sibil Vane Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:51:00 - [11] 2003 here. We need a graph. All men are prepared to accomplish the incredible if their ideals are threatened.
Ephemeral Waves Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ This is new. With Apochrypa expansion you had a game that had a pile of new pve content and they had solved lag. We were having fights with over 1000 people in local with very little lag. Then they introduced Dominion and moving 20 people through a gate started giving traffic control. 100 people fighting in a system would have blackscreen and massive module lag.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:00:00 - [13] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 02/08/2010 16:03:03 Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 02/08/2010 16:00:07 Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ Been here since 2005 (actually, 2003 but I played for about 20 minutes and picked up again properly 2 years later) and this has always been here, like on any gaming forum. The only thing that's really changed is that the quality of posters has declined (this used to be one of the most helpful gaming communities, now it's overrun by trolls). Lag used to be worse, the coding used to be worse, the UI was, believe it or not, worse, and the game was a lot smaller with a lot less content and a lot less players. Perhaps one difference from then to now is that back then, despite a lot of complaining, people seemed to realise what a diamond in the rough EvE is and accept it for what it is, rather than compare it to other games. The game is so much better now than it was then will, hopefully, continue to evolve and shine. Originally by: RaTTuS it comes in waves, and is usually worse in the summer [when lots of CCP are away] and kids are off school with too much free time on their hands... Originally by: Shar Totanka Sure walking in stations is cool, but it's not like anyone actually started playing star-trek online simply because you could walk around with other players. No, but plenty of people have quit THIS game because they can't bond with a starship as an avatar. You might be surprised at the impact this will have on the game world, even if you can't see it right now. Originally by: Ephemeral Waves This is new. No, it isn't. Just the subject has changed. .
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ Rage and tear threads have been around since the game's inception. And every game has to deal with people like this. So, hell no there's no substance. I can guarantee you that 99% of the people raging at CCP won't quit and will continue playing this game. _________________________________________ Support the "Seed Primae on the market and ORE LP Stores" proposal! Click here
Captain Corbulo FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:03:00 - [15] confirming that eve is dying ever since i started to play 4 years ago. but meh. i think the recent whine is mostly due to how good eve worked in autumn last year, and how bad it became with dominion compared to that. most people ignore that it was even worse just 2 years ago.

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:09:00 - [16] Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Pink Dread has been hijacked

Avon Caldari Versatech Co. Blade.	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:13:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Confirming that I am open to community relationship manager job offers. Signature removed, please only use English on the forums. Zymurgist Okay sweet-cheeks xxx. Avon
Bad Princess Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:19:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. This was an very unexpected, and frankly, very welcome surprise. Thank you for your honest and candid response. I understand your assertion that your views stated are yours alone, but the fact that you voice them using your in-corp persona rather than using a blind alt impresses me. Hopefully others in the CCP organization, that are in positions to act, are getting the same "feeling" as you. Thank you for your candid opinion. From where I sit, it helped a lot.

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:19:00 - [19] Well I just try to do my bit and post a bit more often and give my personal 2 cents on things Don't know if it will do anything or not but I do know I posted a lot less than I used to which is a shame. I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. Pink Dread has been hijacked

grrfsweld	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:23:00 - [20] Edited by: grrfsweld on 02/08/2010 16:23:39 CCP is posting personal views, WHAT HAPPENS next could be like this: Derek Chu saw how great wickedness had become and decided to wipe EVE from the face of the interwebs. However, one righteous man among all the people of that time, grrfsweld, found favor in Derek Chu's eyes. With very specific instructions, Derek Chu told grrfsweld to build an ark for him and his family in preparation for a catastrophic SEGFAULT that would destroy every bit of EVE. terrible alt poster

Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:26:00 - [21] Eve has been dying since beta. We've always had the arrogant self important players who think they know more than CCP and how to develop the game demanding CCP listen to them or Eve will die when the next big new shiny game hits the market. The rabble is nothing new but the volume of it has most definitely picked up substantially. This is just due to the volume of new players bored from other games that thinks their 15$ a month gives them executive privilege to demand how the game is built.
Orion Sky	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:27:00 - [22] It seems like the more CCP listens to the CSM the more disconected from the player base they get. Time to put away the personal agendas CSM and actually do your job for once. I mean seriously, CCP raves about how they are into the CSM and this and that but ffs, if this is the result, please disband the CSM and just listen to the players again. We have the forums. all the tools are there so cut out the people that claim they represent the player base and get back in tune with the real players.
Frug Omega Wing	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:28:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Is the disconnect between the devs and the players, or between management and the players? It's hard to imagine devs that are familiar with the players not knowing what the big issues are. If it is the devs, then the CSM would be a solution, but I really get the impression you guys don't call the shots. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor
Pesky LaRue Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:32:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Stunning and refreshing honesty. Thank you. .
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:39:00 - [25] For me - as a player since 2003 - its different. I never subscribed to the "EVE is dying" bandwagon - However, now I feel EVE is having some issues.
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:53:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Well I just try to do my bit and post a bit more often and give my personal 2 cents on things Don't know if it will do anything or not but I do know I posted a lot less than I used to which is a shame. I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. I miss those times too. And frankly, with the way players reacted to the T20 issue I can completely understand why the Devs would become less personal. I think it's a good idea to try and move on from a stand off approach and be a bit more visible, so kudos to you. I also love how Eve is one of the few games where the devs are happy at times just to tell its players to HTFU. At the moment its just a bit quiet Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist
Maldad Asesino	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:53:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. You Eris bring back some faith. Thank you. you sure have alot of guts voicing your personal thoughts like this. so... Are those issues something you intend to voice at the office or is this common knowledge? If then. Are you planning to do something about it?
Alianne Cooper	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Sibil Vane 2003 here. We need a graph. Chribba?
NereSky Gallente Domination.	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:57:00 - [29] Been n game since 2004 and i can say that Lag has always been a point of moaning/whining but back then as someone said as Eve was a diamond in the rough most of us accepted it, even as far as to say petitions were personable and even granted in the players favour of a lag generated loss, however now whether its because more petitions are being received ive no idea but petitions are answered by peeps not willing to listen, clear cut copy and paste replys and you are left feeling no-one cares, coupled with that is the constant nerfs and new game content which is lets be honest is less than favourable, making it kinda clear that progress is being made away from the caring CCP they appeared to be back in the day to a more 'we couldnt care less approach' I keep my subscriptin going in the hope that CCP will return to caring thought provoking game developer/owner they used to be rather than making half kept promises, releasing half finished game content or even rushed game content. The CSM appears to be more and more a public relation excercise where CCP can issue flannel but in a more polished way and the less said about the store the better imo
Virtuozzo Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:01:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Thank you dear. I fully acknowledge this is a personal impression on your behalf (which coincidentally I do share), but this is thoroughly appreciated. It should be noted however that in recent times (starting prior to Dominion) the situation has become far less a case of "players <-> devs gap", but something that became visible far more as a case of "players + devs <-> business management - inner circle gap". For more reasons then we can probably explore here, but they all more or less tie right into CCP's original and core company values. In reference I should quote Vilhjßlmur Thorsteinsson: Quote: CCPæs culture is strong, and is built on four core values: We are fearless, we stand united, we pursue excellence, we practice transparency. Such values cannot simply be dictated by committe or by installed by fiat. They have to be lived and breathed by everyone in the company, including the board and its chairman, or they are not credible. Also, the values are truly validated only when there is a crisis or a severe test facing the company. Will it then live up to its values, or are they empty talk? The gap CCP faces, has a wide variety of causes. One of the biggest of which is growing pains, the fast paced evolution of CCP from a start up to an enterprise path, something which really is not uncommon and which is not a drama. It's business, and for this there are best practices - those do however need to be in line with a recognition of the nature of the market and the product established and engaged in. After all, this is what determines the type of organisation required. What the current situation comes down to in terms of enterprise development, is pretty much exactly what Thorsteinsson there put on the table - but it should be noted that he provides the foundation requirement for it elsewhere: Quote: These values are not simply company values, because of the vision of World Domination by building an alternative universe and what this means for the type of products CCP creates and the markets it serves it is clear that these are values that apply to CCP's creations equally. No small enterprise, and while fully in line with the challenge this company engaged on it should also be clear that this requires a constant need to alternate perspectives applicable both within the company and by the market on the product. It is safe to say that - independant of the other factors - this here is pretty much one of the most primary aspects of the current situation. Right now, the situation "bleeds" challenges not too dissimilar of a growth bottleneck in enterprise development commonly referred to as "internal segregation" and - applicable because of the type of product - "immersion segregation" (which I should say has less to do with what players commonly shout out as "omg which producer pew pews and more with information processes that have their own unique bottlenecks related to cubicle challenges and so called tunnel vision on singular concept challenges). Communication, is one key aspect here. Trust another one. CCP and the universe it builds have unique strengths, but as players we get the impression that at some point something broke, and instead of building on the original strengths there is an unconscious intent on engaging in a rat race of commercial development a common company would undertake. CCP, is and should never be a common company. Because of where it comes from, because of what it aspired, because of its people, and because of everything it can enable. I realise it is not an easy road to walk, but nobody discounts the extreme potential CCP has. Provided the gaps can be acknowledged, and structurally addressed. ≡v≡ once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business. Now all that's left, serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna.

TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:02:00 - [31] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Well I just try to do my bit and post a bit more often and give my personal 2 cents on things Don't know if it will do anything or not but I do know I posted a lot less than I used to which is a shame. I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. Please can you slap your colleagues around the face a few times so they can realise this and fix the issues that are literally killing the game that ccp created. We can't do sov battles, we can't do battles in general, in empire we get perma banned for fleet fighting due to rule 17. The lag, and the abandoned features makes me have a sad face.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:05:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. I blame the casuals for most of the problems in this game too. Imagine if people could make excursions into unprotected and unused areas of 0.0 and take that sec away easily. The tears of casual 0.0 players who aren't on often enough to stop them would be a cleansing flood. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:16:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. ♥ Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
iP0D	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:25:00 - [34] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. ♥ Eris for Pink CEO 2011!
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc. Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:37:00 - [35] Originally by: Virtuozzo Thank you dear. I fully acknowledge this is a personal impression on your behalf (which coincidentally I do share), but this is thoroughly appreciated. It should be noted however that in recent times (starting prior to Dominion) the situation has become far less a case of "players <-> devs gap", but something that became visible far more as a case of "players + devs <-> business management - inner circle gap". For more reasons then we can probably explore here, but they all more or less tie right into CCP's original and core company values. In reference I should quote Vilhjßlmur Thorsteinsson: Quote: CCPæs culture is strong, and is built on four core values: We are fearless, we stand united, we pursue excellence, we practice transparency. Such values cannot simply be dictated by committe or by installed by fiat. They have to be lived and breathed by everyone in the company, including the board and its chairman, or they are not credible. Also, the values are truly validated only when there is a crisis or a severe test facing the company. Will it then live up to its values, or are they empty talk? The gap CCP faces, has a wide variety of causes. One of the biggest of which is growing pains, the fast paced evolution of CCP from a start up to an enterprise path, something which really is not uncommon and which is not a drama. It's business, and for this there are best practices - those do however need to be in line with a recognition of the nature of the market and the product established and engaged in. After all, this is what determines the type of organisation required. What the current situation comes down to in terms of enterprise development, is pretty much exactly what Thorsteinsson there put on the table - but it should be noted that he provides the foundation requirement for it elsewhere: Quote: These values are not simply company values, because of the vision of World Domination by building an alternative universe and what this means for the type of products CCP creates and the markets it serves it is clear that these are values that apply to CCP's creations equally. No small enterprise, and while fully in line with the challenge this company engaged on it should also be clear that this requires a constant need to alternate perspectives applicable both within the company and by the market on the product. It is safe to say that - independant of the other factors - this here is pretty much one of the most primary aspects of the current situation. Right now, the situation "bleeds" challenges not too dissimilar of a growth bottleneck in enterprise development commonly referred to as "internal segregation" and - applicable because of the type of product - "immersion segregation" (which I should say has less to do with what players commonly shout out as "omg which producer pew pews and more with information processes that have their own unique bottlenecks related to cubicle challenges and so called tunnel vision on singular concept challenges). Communication, is one key aspect here. Trust another one. CCP and the universe it builds have unique strengths, but as players we get the impression that at some point something broke, and instead of building on the original strengths there is an unconscious intent on engaging in a rat race of commercial development a common company would undertake. CCP, is and should never be a common company. Because of where it comes from, because of what it aspired, because of its people, and because of everything it can enable. I realise it is not an easy road to walk, but nobody discounts the extreme potential CCP has. Provided the gaps can be acknowledged, and structurally addressed. This post did not need to stay at the bottom of the first page. Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Doppleganger Minmatar Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Spaceman Jack For me - as a player since 2003 - its different. I never subscribed to the "EVE is dying" bandwagon - However, now I feel EVE is having some issues. I agree with this. I have seen all the whines since 2003 but this time I'm seeing more players (some very long time players) complain that never use to or ones that stood up for the game more... myself included.
Mynxee	Posted - 2010.08.02 17:48:00 - [37] ♥ and much respect to Eris. I'm sure it can't be easy as an employee of CCP to offer such a genuine, honest response while so much anger and frustration is being directed at the source of your livelihood. It speaks volumes about your integrity and that of other CCP staffers who have responded in similarly forthright ways...and gives me hope that that there are a lot of good people on the workfloor at CCP who care very much about the game, the players, and the future of CCP. Life In Low Sec
NobodyGood Snakes With T1ts	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:01:00 - [38] I joined after RMR and it had lots of problems as well, there has been and always will be problems. But back then I think people had a better sense of humour, have a look!
Hexman Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:09:00 - [39] There have always been recurring small "omg eve is dying" posts. But they have usually been over very specific and localized issues -people griping over things such as nano-nerf, no love for amarr, no love for caldari, some raging carebear over having been ganked in "safe space" (lol), or even pvp-ers complaining about their ships/race/etc. In most cases, people lol and "i can haz your stuffs" at him, the general population just adapts and goes on. This time, however, beyond the obvious threadnaught over "yes we're awesome vote for us" thread (more lol), people -and i mean long time vets, not new players like some tard here said- are irked at the fact that CCP have release broken stuff, broken stuff that was already out there and yet insist on not commiting to fixing anything for 18-months because they are focused on releasing stuff that: 1) Doesn't seem to add anything to eve's core game (incarna - wtf) 2) Is completely unrelated and designed to generate short-term revenue and is not even clear if it will even be succesful at all (DUST - omg) And what really makes it worse, is that at least in the case of the 0.0 playerbase, the big-ass fights is what CCP markets as "being eve" - all their videos show that. All their marketing messages suggests it. And yet, THAT part of the game is totally broken and they won't fix it at all for 18 months. So yes, this time is different. I don't think eve is dying just yet. But I do think it's drinking poison pills and will be in sever risk of dying. All the previous times someone said "eve is dying" i admit I always lol'd. This time I've actually considered cancelling my accounts. Why? because even if before, the game seemed broken, I always stuck out for the fix. This time I know it's not coming. 18 months is waaay too much to wait, paying $14/mo, for a game I can't play the way it was promised to me.
Goodwill City Amarr The Society of Goodwill	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:15:00 - [40] Eris Discordia for CEO. Get the beancounters out!

Linji Yixuan	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:36:00 - [41] Edited by: Linji Yixuan on 02/08/2010 18:37:11 Originally by: Hexman And what really makes it worse, is that at least in the case of the 0.0 playerbase, the big-ass fights is what CCP markets as "being eve" - all their videos show that. All their marketing messages suggests it. And yet, THAT part of the game is totally broken and they won't fix it at all for 18 months. This seems to be not totally true based on what CCP Zulu has said: Originally by: CCP Zulu On top of that we have some (space) cowboys running around injecting code into Tranquility live to debug fleet battles and fix exploits (these are the same people that do code reviews and architectural integrity checks for the EVE codebase). This is where the MIT Ph.D. come into play. This doesnæt fall under the classification of a development team but contains computer scientists, QA people, operational staff and others. They are hard-at-work (often well-outside normal working hours) profiling and diagnosing all sorts of lag-related issues or trying to catch fringe cases that are impossible to reproduce on our test servers. This team will be greatly assisted by the "fleet fight in a can" sentient AI. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=777 It seems they have dedicated computer scientists working on it no? Anyway, Ive been only playing for a year and a half but the last month seems to have had a tone change. Like has been said a few times here people arent just upset about a specific feature but seem to be really mad at CCP in general over what is perveived as a lack of commitment towards the core game (the one paying the bills it is worth mentionig). There is the perception that development of eve core has been slowed down because of incarna and dust (largely based on the feedback of the CSM). If this isnt true CCP needs to do more to communicate this fact.
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.02 18:53:00 - [42] Edited by: Trent Nichols on 02/08/2010 18:55:23 Born 02 2006: For me at least, it's different this time. What many people (including the Devs) don't get is that when people scream and moan and threaten to quit, they really don't want to quit. I did my share of yelling over some of CCP's more ham-fisted "fixes". I loved Eve. Ive never been so involved in a game before and I wanted to keep playing and having fun. Now its 08 2010. Ive had very little fun with Eve since Dominion hit. My dreams of fun,immersive Sov. warfare are gone. Fleet fights are nothing but frustration. After the CSM minutes and Zulu's blog I no longer think Eve will be anything more than a diamond in the rough. It is a diamond yes but CCP is simply not inclined to polish it. That I'm posting here now is proof that I still hope the game will be fixed but you wont seem me raging or posting multiple times in a single thread. My accounts really are canceled and they end this month. I just don't care enough about Eve anymore. Don't take a lack of noise as a sign everything is going to be fine. People are getting tired of CCP. They know forum rage is unlikely to help so they will just quit. Also... No you cant have my stuff - In the unlikely event that the lag is fixed and some major improvements are made, I will be back in a second. Colonies and Capitals
iP0D	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Linji Yixuan This seems to be not totally true based on CCP Zulu Trouble is, it might be an idea to look up Zulu as Zulupark, and go over past posts and devblogs from him - god forbid you go back further then the timeframe of his focus on carriers. I know this is a sad thing to say, but ... he's got no reference of immersion. Furthermore, he demonstrated beyond a doubt with his feedback points on the CSM Minutes to be one of those who suffer from what someone else here called segregation. Lack of communication, only one perspective that defines a singular reality, all worrying signs. Worse, he demonstrated to simply not adhering to any workflow in line with what they preach of SCRUM with the approach and reception. That is even more worrying. But this is one of the focal points here, somehow there appears to be a level of decision processes at CCP which somehow just tuned out at some point. At minimum they stopped thinking about how people use what they make, what is important in customer reaction, and how both their own and the customer perspective make the picture complete. Look at Nathan's comments in those minutes. It is as if the excellence of code dogma is sacrosanct. And that pattern is what people point to as the big divide between customers and developers on the one hand, and somewhere over the rainbow the decision level. Originally by: Linji Yixuan dedicated computer scientists working on it no? You might want to read a thread in a different little eve community on that topic :P CCP have waved the Phd flag around a few times, but sofar in none of the years has there been any delivery on it. Originally by: Linji Yixuan lack of commitment towards the core game (the one paying the bills it is worth mentionig). It isn't the last month really. The last month has only been the debate punching through that buffer of external communities and third party forums, channeled through the visibility of the absence of communication and workflow after the CSM Meeting Minutes, but even more so after Zulupark's devblog. The current sentiment has been growing in a wide range of parts of the game for quite a while now, but gaining momentum after Dominion. The recent events have merely acted as a catalyst. Considering it's all had to push through those buffers of external sites first before really hitting it off here, is imo significant. Originally by: Linji Yixuan There is the perception that development of eve core has been slowed down because of incarna and dust (largely based on the feedback of the CSM). If this isnt true CCP needs to do more to communicate this fact. I don't think it's the perception of EVE core development slowing down, people have over the years taken a lot of worse, and in stride. Because we all love EVE. But when you pile up over the years that nothing ever gets finished, and nothing ever gets iterated upon, seeing the same bull** marketing again and again becomes a case of severe overexposure. Enough is enough, and then when people see Zulupark in charge of EVE, his blog, the communicative and workflow failures - but also seeing references from a decision level to from the QEN that anyone with just a little experience can disprove as if it is actually the information they base decisions on - well, enough is enough. When then, like many times before, people start asking questions, and all that follows is the very same method of hammering on technical responses only relentlessly, particularly older players see the writing on the wall because CCP has always compensated for the growing divides the same way. Without ever even getting their definitions right on iterations and features. This is why Eris's comment is so appreciated. It is like CCP did in the past. It is honest. It is genuine. It is human. It is not the technical bull** distraction routine or marketing stunts.
TekRa Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:06:00 - [44] it's always been the same, It wasn't long into 2005 that I stopped visiting the forums as it just ruined the eve experience. it still does to some extent, but now i just ignore three quarters of what I read (if not significantly more). sig.
Darth Vapour	Posted - 2010.08.02 19:36:00 - [45] The thing that is most frustrating is knowing CCP can fix lag to a great extent like they did late 2008 but CCP management considers it more important to do other stuff which will be abandoned later on in favour of even more new stuff.
Bud Johnson Rapscallions	Posted - 2010.08.02 20:09:00 - [46] Edited by: Bud Johnson on 02/08/2010 20:11:03 I made you something OP. *edited for link fail
Crendis	Posted - 2010.08.02 20:46:00 - [47] I think that any group of people that is used to being listened to will get louder and louder when they're no longer being listened to. I think this is what is happening to Eve's community. CCP has been tight with the players forever and now they've stopped paying attention to what their player base wants or giving special attention to the players' concerns. Now whether or not this really happened in the past the perception was there that this is what was happening. So the players got louder. CCP responded by saying no can do. The players got louder. CCP responded with a dev schedule that said (to the players) look at all this time we'll be spending not doing the things you want! The players got even louder. Then CCP said hey go tell people how awesome we are. That's when the players started shouting and screaming. The only way for them to do that is dollar votes and making enough of a stink that CCP is forced to do damage control. So Eve isn't dying, it's just the player base making itself heard.
Djavo Saiyans United death from above..	Posted - 2010.08.02 20:55:00 - [48] 2003 Here... to be honest this is the worst I've seen it.
Candente Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2010.08.02 21:10:00 - [49] I always sneered at the saying that MMO official forums are filled with vocal and whiney minorities; that view changed after I started reading this forum. Sometimes it is hard to tell a valid opinion from egocentric, selfish piece of rant. Those "opinions" are rather contradictory to a pretty graph I happen to find here. To me it is obvious that EVE is doing something right while many other games are not. So I guess before EVE's subscription number starts diving I'll just look at elsewhere to find insightful information regarding the game whom I intend to have a long lasting relationship with
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.02 21:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Candente I always sneered at the saying that MMO official forums are filled with vocal and whiney minorities; that view changed after I started reading this forum. Sometimes it is hard to tell a valid opinion from egocentric, selfish piece of rant. Those "opinions" are rather contradictory to a pretty graph I happen to find here. To me it is obvious that EVE is doing something right while many other games are not. So I guess before EVE's subscription number starts diving I'll just look at elsewhere to find insightful information regarding the game whom I intend to have a long lasting relationship with You are aware that CCP hasn't released subscriber count numbers since the ** hit the fan? -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog

Candente Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.02 21:23:00 - [51] It'll be interesting to see a such fan-hitting incident (however artificially blown out of proportion), might influence the overall subscription number, and how many of these will kill the leaner growth :p ------------- rawr~
Xianthar STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.02 21:40:00 - [52] Edited by: Xianthar on 02/08/2010 21:40:40 complaining in years past was more about annoying mechanics, try clearing out 20 deathstar POS's with no capitals. And endless POS warfare in general. I recall being in systems with 1500-2000 people going at it. It wasn't silky smooth but it was playable, it certainly didn't involved staring at a black screen for 3 hours. 500 man fleet fights were relatively lag free, fun and a daily occurrence, you could even actually move strategically. Today we don't have the luxury of complaining about mechanics. We don't even get to experience them. I mean in all seriousness maybe the new sov system really is decent. How would we know? since its been put in place its impossible to have a fight large enough to actually test it. The only mechanic that matters right now is positioning your fleet such that you aren't the one that black screens for 2 hours while the other fleet nukes you. 2007: "Mechanic/feature X sucks, its pretty boring" 2010: "Doesn't matter what features or mechanics you have, i'm staring at a black screen, i'm go play a few games of starcraft II, i'll alt-tab in every 15min to see if i've loaded yet"
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:00:00 - [53] Originally by: Xianthar Today we don't have the luxury of complaining about mechanics. This is really the core of the current wave of complaints, and what sets it apart from the various incarnations of "EVE is dying" I've seen over the years. Also, as someone mentioned earlier, it used to be that people complained about something not working in the game; now it has become a matter of CCP not working properlyà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
DigiFusion	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:01:00 - [54] 05 player here, the sky has always been falling, it's just that this time were falling with it and we can see the ground.
Snowmann	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:20:00 - [55] I think this is different in that it seems to be more "organized" than in the past, not so geniune as before. There are issues, but I think they are being blown out of proportion by players who are trying to create and use drama to get their way. Sometimes I think the players are having more of a destructive influence on the nature of the game than any perceived lack of connection by the Devs. I think it can be hard as a game producer to wade through all the social engineering to get to the actual issues that really matter.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:25:00 - [56] Originally by: Liang Nuren You are aware that CCP hasn't released subscriber count numbers since the **** hit the fan? -Liang Uhhh, yes they have. It's 360k but that is mainly from a lot of people subbing for the $2 steam offer and Tyrannis so it will naturally dip after that and for the summer as it always does. If you think all the people who claim to cancel their accounts actually do, you are very very gullible. If 1 person quit even time they said they were going to we'd be at -50,000 subscribers. EVE subscriber numbers are doing fine and I really don't care about a few bitter vets getting upset and posting on the forums on various alts trying to make it look like EVE is unplayable. Or you can stay in your tin-foil house and believe that EVE IS DYING - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant
Rananka Native Freshfood	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:37:00 - [57] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Thanks Eris. There are at least still a few decent people at ccp.
Master Akira Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:40:00 - [58] Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: Liang Nuren You are aware that CCP hasn't released subscriber count numbers since the **** hit the fan? -Liang Uhhh, yes they have. It's 360k but that is mainly from a lot of people subbing for the $2 steam offer and Tyrannis so it will naturally dip after that and for the summer as it always does. If you think all the people who claim to cancel their accounts actually do, you are very very gullible. If 1 person quit even time they said they were going to we'd be at -50,000 subscribers. EVE subscriber numbers are doing fine and I really don't care about a few bitter vets getting upset and posting on the forums on various alts trying to make it look like EVE is unplayable. Or you can stay in your tin-foil house and believe that EVE IS DYING And you know that eve subscriber numbers are doing fine because......? And no, eve is not dying. But Eve is not in a good shape by any means. You have to be an idiot to believe any of those.
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:40:00 - [59] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? Let's just put it this way: CCP always fubars something, and so the noise from us is pretty much constant. Most of the time it's bugs, sometimes it's them doing idiotic ** with the market, or implementing a stupid feature, or even worse an exploitable bug, or accidentally the whole sever, etc. So, anyway, yeah. Noise = constant, because they always ** something up. They don't believe in polish.
Player One Minmatar Die wilde 13	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:56:00 - [60] As already mentioned, Eve is dying since 2003. Imo, the percentage of Players running Amok on the Forums hasn't changed. A lot more Players now = a lot more forum rage. But %-wise, i think it's still the same, like in the golden days of teh Nerfbat. WTB: Jim Button corpse

Rhohan Minmatar Marauders	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:14:00 - [61] Originally by: Player One ... like in the golden days of teh Nerfbat. I still have fond memories of the Great Nano-Nerf, Wardec nerf, and the aborted Carrier changes. Now those were some real "Raging" times.
Sakura Nihil Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:15:00 - [62] Mid-2005 start here, I've played constantly ever since. In my opinion, whining is cyclical. There has never been a time without whining, but it peaks from time to time. Instances I can remember it getting loud: - RMR - T20 - Nos nerf - Nano nerf - Zulu's carrier ideas And of course, the instance we find ourselves in at the moment. This one is different though, in that I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the devs before. Really, I haven't. Between telling their current subscriber base their long-term business isn't meaningful (that its better spent on new bright-eyed players), to neglecting us of meaningful game development for the next 18 months, to turning a blind ear to the CSM after giving it so much press upon formation. To hiring a PR firm to do damage control in the media, to asking us to vote you in as best MMO after all that - and then, having the gall to unsticky the thread in the hopes it will fade away and people will forget about it? WAKE THE HELL UP. Have you people learned nothing from the T20 incident? That communication, real and meaningful, is the key to your success? That trust is the most valuable commodity in this game and that you're squandering it to pursue a pair of pipe dreams? If you know me, from my time on this forum or SHC, you know I'm not one for yelling or bemoaning unnecessarily. So I hope this gets through your heads over in Reykjavik - I don't think you care about us anymore. Until you prove to me and those that think like me otherwise, you're going to have a rabble on your hands. I may not be quitting, but there are ways I can shape the PCU count as insignificant as they may be. Maybe dropping by the Newbie channels and informing those who will listen what you're up to will be a start. Maybe that mass test on SISI Aug 5 might be a good time and place to picket in local. Or who knows, those people at work I've been talking to about starting a trial, maybe I'll go and convince them that World of Tanks is better, or that Starcraft 2 can get them laid. I may not be quitting, but maybe if I can dissuade some people from joining, y'all will still feel the financial impact. (Eris, you can remove yourself from those comments above, keep showing these people how the old-school devs do business through straight-talk and honesty. :brofist:) Selective Pressure is recruiting.
Snowmann	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:24:00 - [63] Originally by: Sakura Nihil ...I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the *Players* before. Really, I haven't. Fixed that for you. I think the Devs are reacting the same as they have for the last several years. The players are the ones who have changed. They seem to think if they can "hit the brick wall even harder" they can get through. Kind of like a temper tantrum to be honest.
Sandslinger NorCorp Enterprise	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:25:00 - [64] To be honest The whinage has been going for god knows how long. I don't do big 0.0 pvp fights anymore for a horde of reasons most of them related to the drama that grows from alliances and the people that take it way too seriously. So I can't be subjective on the lag situation cuz I'm not feeling it. But I'm pretty sure CCP will have it fixed eventually not the first time the lag monster rears it head, and I think people have rosey eyes on things too much I mean look at Jita the second they upped the capacity of it that's how people behave in 0.0 fights too in my experience. people now jump in 1K people and expect the servers not too melt.
Sakura Nihil Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:43:00 - [65] Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 02/08/2010 23:45:49 Originally by: Snowmann Originally by: Sakura Nihil ...I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the *Players* before. Really, I haven't. Fixed that for you. I think the Devs are reacting the same as they have for the last several years. The players are the ones who have changed. They seem to think if they can "hit the brick wall even harder" they can get through. Kind of like a temper tantrum to be honest. Post with your main, kthx. If we're going to have this discussion, I'm not doing it with a faceless alt. I don't deny, the forums have gotten a lot... more crass over the last five years. We're not going to get through to them, instead we're just trying to help them see the other side of the coin. Namely, that antagonizing existing players in favor of new players is not a wise path to tread. Ask SOE how that went. Originally by: Sandslinger To be honest The whinage has been going for god knows how long. I don't do big 0.0 pvp fights anymore for a horde of reasons most of them related to the drama that grows from alliances and the people that take it way too seriously. So I can't be subjective on the lag situation cuz I'm not feeling it. But I'm pretty sure CCP will have it fixed eventually not the first time the lag monster rears it head, and I think people have rosey eyes on things too much I mean look at Jita the second they upped the capacity of it that's how people behave in 0.0 fights too in my experience. people now jump in 1K people and expect the servers not too melt. Its not just the blob groups that are feeling it. We moved a twenty or thirty person group a few jumps into null, started getting traffic control messages, lagged mods, the works. And we weren't even fighting someone at the time. There have been nights where we've wanted to take gangs out, but the server has been too unreliable to handle it. Of course this happens on occasion, but it seems to be a lot more frequent and affecting of the small gang warfare these days. Selective Pressure is recruiting.
Deamos Quintessential Teldar Paper	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:47:00 - [66] 2003 player here. Since the beginning, Eve has been "dying". It will always be "dying". This game was a ton buggier back closer to release. I wish people would just be glad for the game they have and remember that CCP did start from a small company in Iceland and has grown to be quite a competitor in the MMORPG market. Congrats CCP and please keep up the good work. -
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.02 23:53:00 - [67] Originally by: Sandslinger people now jump in 1K people and expect the servers not too melt. àbecause a year ago, they didn't. Then they gave us Dominion, and suddenly they did. Then they gave us Tyrannis, and they did so even more. Quote: But I'm pretty sure CCP will have it fixed eventually not the first time the lag monster rears it head, and I think people have rosey eyes on things too much Can you point to some period in the past when two major releases in a row gave us increased lag as a direct result of those expansions, even in the face of hardware upgrades? I'm willing to bet that those times you refer to were mainly due to what you gave examples of: more and more people cramming into the same system. That's not what's happening here though. Instead, we have a situation where the developers have reduced the server performance. Twice. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.03 00:02:00 - [68] Lag is one of the biggest issues alongside fixing bugs before adding new features. In 06 we had lag during massive fleet ops as one would expect. Although it was annoying, it was still bearable. The lag as of now however is _far_ beyond bearable and much worse than anything back then. This is even the case with fights consisting of fewer numbers than the blob warfare of the past.
Dodgy Past Amarr Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.08.03 00:09:00 - [69] Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/08/2010 00:13:11 Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/08/2010 00:10:42 When someone said that we can't even judge the success of Dominion because we've never had the chance to test it they hit the nail on the head. The perception that is given is that all the 0.0 players might as well cancel their accounts for the foreseeable future as they aren't a significant part of the game... while management make sure hoops are jumped through whenever there is the slightest issue in Jita. Beyond this we see media consultants pushing questionable information to the media organisations that ask questions, which is a strategy sure to completely destroy the trust of the more sophisticated members of the player base. Until management is prepared to publicly admit that they are wrong, start correcting the course of the ship the players' faith is going to continue to be eroded. This time it does seem different because many more people are coming to the conclusion that the tipping point has been passed and that management are incapable of the necessary clear headed introspection required to listen and get things back on track. Sadly the ignorant carebear rah rah crowd are providing them with justifications to ignore the troubled waters they have steered themselves into, and instead reinforcing their delusional reality. Human nature is to listen to those that agree with you and find ways to discredit those that don't. Maybe if CCP considered the backgrounds and knowledge of the people posting in these threads then they might be able to judge the value of those opinions more accurately.
mandaro	Posted - 2010.08.03 00:44:00 - [70] Edited by: mandaro on 03/08/2010 00:44:33 Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ Normally I would say the former, but the current anger and distrust are almost worse than the T20 incident. The mob is angry, and it wants a reaction. Edit: Spelling.

Lubomir Penev TTSP.x.X.x.RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.03 01:23:00 - [71] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Perhaps one difference from then to now is that back then, despite a lot of complaining, people seemed to realise what a diamond in the rough EvE is and accept it for what it is, rather than compare it to other games. And when years after, the diamond is still rough and the developer openly communicate on its absence of intent to polish it, people that where hanging in there just waiting for it to be polished start to decide that they waited enough. The game actually be better, but each issue that gets unfixed for years is frustration accumulated. They may look like details taken individually, but there are so many that they add up and make for a sentiment of complete neglect. Devs all work on their 0.5 features, having no intent of making them 1.0 ever. Surely you can understand that people with minimal expectation of quality are disappointed? Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended8/9/2010← the missing space is original CCP material
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2010.08.03 01:37:00 - [72] Born May 2004. Of all the whines I've ever seen, T20 was by far the loudest, although "18 months" also rates as one of the more qualified whines in recent times, since a lot of people do actually seem to be leaving over it. /Ben
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.03 02:15:00 - [73] It's called "Internet Negativity Syndrome". The very condition of being at the computer also implies there is nothing else to do, or bored at work, and the day sucks. Therefore when there is nothing much to say, what is said is negative.
Cors Trap Standings Inc	Posted - 2010.08.03 02:30:00 - [74] To the op.. Yes theres always naysayers/doomsayers, but this is different. In the past we always had the next major update to look forward too. But now, those of us that focus on PVP as our entertainment, don't have anything to look forward to. The next major release will be the winter one, which should be walking in stations or something, and the one after that will most likely be about Dust. So, for the pvpers, nothing new. Sure DUST integration will give us fights over plantets, but nothing really NEW is coming out for pvpers for a long... long... LONG time... So in otherwords, 0.0 stagnation, or everyone on the rinse repeat bus.
Kireiina	Posted - 2010.08.03 02:46:00 - [75] Whining about game mechanics is a good sign to an extent because it means people really care. And the developers can simply say "we have some plans" and it dries up. Half the time the player-base are fighting each other anyway. But if the player base comes to believe the developer doesn't care, that they're distracted or the game is in maintenance mode, the people start questioning their own commitment and are either hostile or simply fade away. This is amplified if the game has faults because letting the game "coast" is a lot less acceptable in that case. The big difference is that only the second causes subs to start dropping, which of course reinforces the belief that the game is in decline. Eve is especially vulnerable to this since so much of its content is player made.
Xianthar STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.03 03:46:00 - [76] There will be two responses to this topic: Empire/Low-sec: "Its all the same whining as before" 0.0: "Eve is seriously ****ed" You can argue back and forth all you want until you realize that much of the market action in empire is dependent on 0.0. Once you realize this you will not only be able to make massive amounts of isk by paying attention to 0.0 but also realize that if 0.0 dies, so does the eve economy and everything that makes eve special.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.08.03 04:59:00 - [77] Originally by: Virtuozzo Communication, is one key aspect here. Trust another one. Nice analysis. On the point of trust I think I've nailed down exactly how mine has been broken. When I started playing Eve it was when Application Service Provider and later Software-as-a-service were buzzwords. This was a major selling point for me, it means I can continue to play a game that won't be ruined by feature bloat. For me the whole concept of paying per-month for software is about longivity. I don't want to be using version 23 of some software that is "expanded" every 12 months for the sole purpose of extracting another round of upgrade fees. Subscription software creates a situation where existing customers are looked after without the need for needless product upgrades. I was happy. It would appear the CCP has forgotten how subscription businesses work and has abandon their obligations. If CCP is trapped into chasing new subscriptions with each cycle to maintain cash-flow then something is broken.
Mr M 1st Republic Army	Posted - 2010.08.03 05:43:00 - [78] It's the same. Just remember all the people who left for SWG back in 2003. But back then 1% of the player base was 100 people. These days we're more and that one percent is a lot of people, and they can make quite some noise. I believe CCP will get everything working sooner or later and then the people who left will return. And I will go ha-ha! Eve Tribune\|EVEgeek\|Firebrand Radio
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.08.03 05:53:00 - [79] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ Well devs started sucking after 2005 before that they actual listened to there player base. The forums where a friendly place.. You actualy had good and fast support. Now CCP think they are all that Eve is all but dieing tough Do not click this ad.
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.08.03 06:18:00 - [80] December 06 here. This isn't the biggest rage-bomb since I started playing(that would be t20), but it's probably in the top five. And given that two of those five were rage aimed at proposed changes that didn't ultimately go through - Zulu's carrier nerf and the whole Dominion last-minute changes nonsense - this scores pretty high on the list. It's also got a different character than the others, I think. t20 was...well, it was t20, any gaming community worth its salt would rage at that. The nano nerf and both the retracted ones were game mechanic changes, again pretty normal fare for game communities to rage over. But I don't think I've ever seen this level of big-picture frustration, in Eve or any other game. Nitpicking, sure. The occasional crank on the forums who yells about the sky falling, sure. But a widespread belief that the company making the game just doesn't care, and has abandoned a game that we pay for monthly? I haven't seen that before. I don't think it's quite as bad as all that, but the frustration is definitely real. === "The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features" "Once Incarna and Dust are fully implemented, focus will probably shift far more towards improvement" CCP, FTW?

Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.08.03 06:46:00 - [81] EVE Online: The Second Genesis was released in May 6, 2003, thus ruining the EVE franchise forever. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 07:06:00 - [82] The main problem is with the last expansions content. EVE-Gate? No one asked for this and because of spying and distrust here, were few people will be willing to use it. Planetary Management was just the drop that made the frustration spill over. A game mechanic that is in practice only a clickfest but yet players are forced to do exactly this clickfest because the economy depends on it, because without POS and POS-fuel there will be no shiny T2 ships and the cost of running a POS rising to astronomical levels. As an example, content wise Alchemy was far worse the Planetary Management but at least it was completely optional and people could just ignore this 'feature', but Planetary Management can unfortunally not be ignored and therefore it added to a high amount of frustration. Reintroduce the NPC sell orders for POS materials and shut down and lock any existing PI installation. Overhaul this mechanic soon or remove it. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Rexthor Hammerfists Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.03 07:57:00 - [83] Early 04 player here and with all the drama that has happened this is quite different, to me atleast. I guess as an 0.0 player who has always loved the different pvp, small and large fleets to capfights im used to lag, sov grinds etc. but there was always something to look forward to, a devchat/blog here or a great fanfest presentations on "Need for Speed" or simply improving the overall gameplay. Now with things still requiring work, from mods and ships that are only used in t2 production to faction warfare, lowsec and sov warfare, we read that in the next 18 months devs will work on bugs, graphics and evegate. One example would be, at the last fanfext i believe, there was an presentation of sov warfare based on occupance not shooting things, atleast thats how i understood it. But now we have a system that requires two sides, often several alliances, to be in one system to take or defend it. Next to server improvements it would seem logical to change the sov system to something that would require alliances to fight in several systems so that the load can be spread. But now that we now it wont happen in almost 2 years.. -
WaiKin Beldar Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 07:57:00 - [84] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Pesky LaRue Perhaps one difference from then to now is that back then, despite a lot of complaining, people seemed to realise what a diamond in the rough EvE is and accept it for what it is, rather than compare it to other games. And when years after, the diamond is still rough and the developer openly communicate on its absence of intent to polish it, people that where hanging in there just waiting for it to be polished start to decide that they waited enough. The game actually be better, but each issue that gets unfixed for years is frustration accumulated. They may look like details taken individually, but there are so many that they add up and make for a sentiment of complete neglect. Devs all work on their 0.5 features, having no intent of making them 1.0 ever. Surely you can understand that people with minimal expectation of quality are disappointed? /Signed. Back in 2003, this rough diamond counted implicitly with the trust and hopes of their original players for something unique you could not find anywhere. Some of us came later (2006 here) but still envisioned the true beauty of this product. After several years bearing the same old crap features that cripple this game ( with some of them pompously announced and sold as "unique features among other games") , and simultaneously, being an involuntary audience for the lousy content that has been introduced periodically and nobody asked for, the old guard has developed a frustration feeling that has never stopped to grow since we could witness how little attention was devoted to the real problems and how much fanfare was added to the content, in an attempt to divert our claims and gain new flesh for the game under a brilliant firework show over a faulty base. Once the new flesh became experienced enough the amount of rage is mathematically bigger. I wouldn't say the game is better. I'd say the game has developed and has matured as corresponding with its age, but it lacks tons of quality for carrying exactly the same old problems since its inception. As anyone can expect, adding more stuff doesn't solve the original code problems we still suffer anywhere at anytime, on the contrary, the probabilities of finding new inconsistencies with the latest expansion will make harder and harder to eradicate completely the original problems.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.08.03 08:08:00 - [85] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon EVE-Gate? No one asked for this and because of spying and distrust here, were few people will be willing to use it. You know, you could have just said "I have no idea how EVE Gate works" and it would have been exactly as constructive as this statement, but a lot more honest. Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Reintroduce the NPC sell orders for POS materials and shut down and lock any existing PI installation. Overhaul this mechanic soon or remove it. "I don't like this mechanic! Remove it! DO WHAT I SAY!" ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 08:53:00 - [86] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Deviana Sevidon EVE-Gate? No one asked for this and because of spying and distrust here, were few people will be willing to use it. You know, you could have just said "I have no idea how EVE Gate works" and it would have been exactly as constructive as this statement, but a lot more honest. Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Reintroduce the NPC sell orders for POS materials and shut down and lock any existing PI installation. Overhaul this mechanic soon or remove it. "I don't like this mechanic! Remove it! DO WHAT I SAY!" Learn to read. Tyrannis in the current form is causing problems, not only for the slightly masochistic ones that wants to use it, but also with far reaching consequences for the whole economy. Now compare that with the promises of the last fanfest. It is not whining, it is frustration with massive level of failure in the responsible development teams and QA. But I will concede, certainly PI will be fixed in the next expansion and then it will be simply awesome, just like Factional Warfare and other mechanics. Right? Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
HenkieBoy Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 09:40:00 - [87] Eve dying.. well we get enough posts of that But now there is something brewing.. discontent about CCP current direction. I have seen my share of expansions and each time they told that it was just the beginning and it was the basic of something epic.. but in the end they havent 'itterated' on any expansion. Then there is the basic sandbox rules and interface that make EVE. They are 'not optimal' at best. This has to do with CCP current direction, make new stuff instead of fixing/itterating, but also with CCP employees. Recent changes show not all CCP devs are in touch with EVE and what it needs and what is doens't need. I hope these recent outcry of discontent will make CCP's management rethink their position because I believe things will get worse if they really gonna wait 18 months before anything significant is gonna happen within EVE.
Jareck Hunter Rubicon Legion	Posted - 2010.08.03 10:27:00 - [88] 2006 here. Well i think, the new rage is different. During the last years we always had the "hope" that the next expansion can bring the things we want and the devs promised to us. We thougt they will work on things like FW, Lowsec, UI and so on. We saw great presentations at Fanfest and got a CSM to tell CCP what we like to have in EvE. But today we have a prove that they will not work on these thinks (CSM Minutes, DevBlog), for more than a year, nearly 2, and no guaranty that they will after that time. Well ok the people screaming lag will not be fixed are just stupid and can't read, cause there is a team working on it since dominion(ok nearly 8 months), but other things will not improve during that time. So many simply loose theyr hope and post here at the forums. On the other hand, we also have no information what Incarna or Dust will be and why so many people are working on it. We don't know how it will "improve" EvE. Maybe the DevBlog about Incarna, promised to CSM, should be written in the next weeks, so maybe some will understand what it is. On the other hand we also have words like "excellence" flowing around and then we see things like clickfest-PI, no sectors, no polution, no population, or the "everything will be changed" Sov Mechanics, where we now shoot at less but bigger POS with static timers and pay isk to nobody. I just remember Alchemy, wich based on numbers that were taken during the pos exploit was in effect, has it been changed since then? I lost hope in CCP with Quantum Rise, the big promised Industrie Addon, made a 6 month break after it, was to disappointed. Since then i wait until the addon is on the server, and look at the features which made it into the game, not looking at the numerous promised. ------------------------------------------------- Sorry for my bad english^^
DuPuy Scrap Iron Flotilla The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.08.03 10:31:00 - [89] I've been in-pod regularly since 2005. I've tended to stay away from forums since the early days, once the learning curve flattened out and the never-ending negativeness of the forums became overwelming. However, I'm inclined to join this outpouring of concern this time becase... I'm concerned. EVE had always been taking strong, steady steps forward. In the past, when there was a step backward - it was generally adressed in a matter of months, if not weeks. Dominion, however, was different. I had became used to regular fleet battles of 300+ pilots. I took the smoothness of 50v50 battles for granted. That changed with Dominion. The change was such that I have seen many players abandon the large-scale combat of 0.0 for the "playability" of smaller-scale lowsec and Faction War combat... only to find similar long-term unresolved issues there. The issue is the change to game play. That's why we're here, afterall Our quality of game experience has gone backwards - regardless of all the shiny new bells and whistles. Don't get me wrong: the bells and whistles are nice. Just not necessary for immersive gameplay. We've been waiting a long time to actually want to go back into the large scale combat which shone so brightly there in 2007-2008. Now, we just want to avoid it. The longer we wait... the more old colleagues slip away... So, is EVE dying? Far from it. But it's certainly looking a bit green around the gills.
Jastra Gallente Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 10:33:00 - [90] Long time player, but I often take breaks, every time I get back there is always an eve is dying thread, but then the server keeps breaking login records to it can't all be bad. Cant comment on the latest issues as I havent tried nor do I want to PI and dont do large fleets, otherwise seems business as usual. _ _ _

Winters Chill Amarr The Die Sect	Posted - 2010.08.03 10:41:00 - [91] Looks the same to me. As for the gap between the developers and players, its not changed. I've seen blogs and posts by developers that reflect an arrogance in the development process. However, that being said, CCP is a business not a government, dangerous things start to happen when you confuse the two (for both parties)
000Hunter000 Gallente Industrial Exploits Massive Intergalactic Love Klub	Posted - 2010.08.03 11:18:00 - [92] For all those who think eve is dying... there is no real reason why u can't giv me all ur stuffz before it happens. I say... DONATE TO ME NOW!!! ________________________________________________
Tressin Khiyne Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.08.03 11:39:00 - [93] '04 player here. Business as usual from my perspective. Only a few years ago CCP announced they would nerf Carriers... anyone remember that? Well this is a good example of the players pushing back - and CCP listened in this case. So when the bees get all riled up today, they have more energy from previous victories I think, this might make it seem more serious to people, but in all truth, these things have been going on for years. --
putopugno Gallente Unit-9	Posted - 2010.08.03 11:52:00 - [94] Its a bunch of people not worth anyone's time making a lot of noise. They could do something constructive but they will always come up with the line of "why should I?". They will also never go away. You should see the WoW forums its practically the same. **** it though let them have the forums. I will just have to play EvE and have fun.
heheheh PedoHamma	Posted - 2010.08.03 11:55:00 - [95] The sky has always been falling, this is nothing new.
ThaMa Gebir Gallente SUECHTLER Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:02:00 - [96] Early '05 player here. I started playing and it was Exodus, I didn't know much about the game at the time, but I did enjoy it. Then Cold War hit. That was nasty. The patch was about a day overdue in patching (iirc). Then RMR hit, with the bloodlines etc. WOW. That was cool. Then a bunch of patches with cool stuff happening and being fixed. Then trinity. What awesome graphics... Great stuff. (Boot ini kind ***ed off a lot of people however LOL, great job CCP. Only you can screw something up so thoroughly). Then Apocryppha, Great patch, Unexpectedly good infact. Loads of stuff worked and worked well... Scarily well tbh. Then dominion, oops, and tyranis. Bigger OOPS. Now this. Well I agree it is harsh all of this with 18 months etc, I will be sticking around (as per my promise years ago, (I may not have been here for the start, but I sure as hell will be here at the end...)). But I doubt I will trust 100% anything CCP says anymore. Too much has been lost in faith at this time, I hope Incarna and DUST are really Freaking special for them to do this... My opinion only. Nonetheless I even though I am not voting I will say well done for getting so far CCP. You deserved it (ambiguous on purpose). ---------------------------- Confirmed heaviest* member of RDEX........ Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
Desmond Williams	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:09:00 - [97] CCPs stand on bugs: we will get right on fixing them after we implement this new urgently needed eve video chat feature.
ZeroG	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:16:00 - [98] There are "the sky is falling" posts on every mmo regularly. However the latest glut of posts about the genuinely broken parts of this game (fleet lag etc) are quite valid and must be addressed. Who knows if they will be.....
Mihali Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:23:00 - [99] Originally by: putopugno Its a bunch of people not worth anyone's time making a lot of noise. They could do something constructive but they will always come up with the line of "why should I?". They will also never go away. You should see the WoW forums its practically the same. **** it though let them have the forums. I will just have to play EvE and have fun. I can post with alts too. Anyone living in 0.0 has been effected since the Dominion expansion. This is not just the vocal minority whining about what they want. There is concern among the non-vocal majority about performance of game quality, unfinished and/or poor game features and just a lack of concern of keeping loyal customers. When people from different side of the political fence can agree that something is wrong, you best check up on it. Vets have established social networks within & outside of game. There is concern among us vets(main is '06), that the core game we have played for years, is not given the attention it should be getting. This is a game about spaceships & pew pew after all. There are little rays of hope that some devs(CCP Eris, I love you)are trying to address concerns, but I believe that inside CCP there lies several camps of philosophy, where the game & the company should be going. Hopefully CCP realize, as a whole, that the core game is what keeps us here and do everything within their power, to continue to improve what we so love. Stop messing with my slack, pinko. Praise Bob!
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:32:00 - [100] Previous bouts of forum rage, pardoning the t20 incident, have been about mechanical issues for the most part. This time it's legitimate concern about CCP's direction and the future of the game itself. Quite a difference, and also important ... ______________________________

Uncle Fester Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:35:00 - [101] I started playing a few weeks after Eve was released a long 7 years ago, back then Eve was rough as f***, but there were only ever a maximum of say 5k players at peak times. Even so it was and still is the only game of its kind, one world for us all to play in. As the player base got larger and larger CCP had to change the game to suit what the players were doing, the alliance system was something CCP never even considered, it was created simply to cater for how the players were playing, they began to blob just weeks into release. The game servers from the very begining were under a load CCP had not considered, and as such they began to develop the game around what the players were doing.This has been a trend that carries on today. The players do love this game dispite all the 'sky is falling' threads,there will always be players that are unhappy with something, but lately things do seam alot worse than any other time ive seen. I personaly have had to change my gameplay style(no lag or blobs in wh space:)), 7years of life means i dont have the time needed to play with 0.0 alliances, nor do i have the patients needed to sit at tower sieges for hours and hours, and that is if the game is working, which clearly after dominion it doesnt. I think one of the main problems eve and its players face is the concept of eve is way beyond what current technology can handle, and the way we the players want to play is totally limited and held back by technology, we want bigger and bigger fights and CCP want more and more subscribers, without the technology able to cope with what we both want this situation will only continue.
ViolenTUK Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:35:00 - [102] I think the issue of lag is something that affects everyone so you have everyone united with their opinion about it. Quite rightly so. I donÆt think itÆs just that. I feel that despite CCP introducing more features they are also nerfing and trimming away many of the old features. I think that many players have been around long enough to have been hit by the nerf bat. ThatÆs the problem the nerf bat. Its CCPÆs whole attitude towards addressing an issue, any issue. If CCP sees an imbalance where a group of players are earning more than another group then what they will do is take away from the group that has more. What they should be doing is giving to the players that donÆt have enough. If you take anything from anyone they will be hurt. In 2006 when I started people did say ôWhat going to be hit with the nerf bat?ö IÆm not denying that but it wasnÆt a common phrase. CCP needs to revaluate their whole procedure for correcting a problem. The phrase you want players to hear is ôWhat is next to be buffed?ö
SemiCharmed Turndine Industries	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:39:00 - [103] Since EVE launch there was always allot of whining and complaining, but that was mainly about bugs. These days there is someone complaining just about everything. In my views its due to eve attracting more and more people, mainly the younger generation who are inputting there views on what should be changed and CCP are stupidly listening to them and losing focus on what there true goals are. However, at these times, CCP has set out a list of patches and updates that, separately, everyone is complaining about, but in a whole (when they are all released) majority will be happy for. I'm trusting CCP will pull through and not listen to the masses of re*ds that outnumber the genuine players who's input should be listened too to make eve, unique and on the right path. Which generally means its not in the simple list like World of Warcraft. Semi -------------------------------------------- Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires.**
Ford Mersombre Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:46:00 - [104] All games have it all the time. You just can't make everyone happy all the time and there are always hundreds of players dying to line up and be forum warriors.
Jhannaea Zenakon Minmatar Matari Stormriders	Posted - 2010.08.03 13:09:00 - [105] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ It happen when we had 3k players online, it happen when its 5k players online and now its happening when we got 40k players online and it will continue when we have 60k players online.
Zerrov	Posted - 2010.08.03 13:15:00 - [106] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? My guess is the former............ Frankly, most of the negativity started with the Goons. I am not trolling either. The community took on a negative tone. That being said, goons have since be reduced to northern carebears and CCP haven't been helping their own case much lately.
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.03 13:23:00 - [107] it's different this time, because people do not just threaten to quit, they really quit EVE. and there are several variations. A bunch of people around me quit (at least partially), which I never experienced before. - The most common one: cancel subscriptions on toon-accounts, but keep the main alive to skill and keep in touch with friends you made in Eve - stop selling plexes - go into hibernation mode, keep your stuff. ("I'm back in 18 months") - give away all your stuff and characters. Personally, I don't know anyone who did this. maybe there are a few out on forums giving away their stuff. This time, it does not feel like rage. It is resignation. CCP took away peoples hope. ofc, lag is an issue, but it's not only lag. For example me and lots of other people were hoping for a 0.0 overhaul, which would add more variety and dynamic into 0.0 warfare. Instead we got buggy dominion-sov-mechanics which is worser blob-fest and system camping than pos-grind. I was always hoping, CCP would "iterate" dominion sov-mechanics in the near future. But to hear, that this and many other broken core-game mechanics have been put into backlog for 18 months... well, hard to believe in CCP. __________________________________________________
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.03 13:33:00 - [108] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Well I just try to do my bit and post a bit more often and give my personal 2 cents on things Don't know if it will do anything or not but I do know I posted a lot less than I used to which is a shame. I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. god damn, more posts like this please. +10
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2010.08.03 14:11:00 - [109] Quote: blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. Someone better tell Torfi and Noah
Foundation Vox	Posted - 2010.08.03 14:38:00 - [110] Originally by: Orion Sky It seems like the more CCP listens to the CSM the more disconected from the player base they get. Time to put away the personal agendas CSM and actually do your job for once. I mean seriously, CCP raves about how they are into the CSM and this and that but ffs, if this is the result, please disband the CSM and just listen to the players again. We have the forums. all the tools are there so cut out the people that claim they represent the player base and get back in tune with the real players. About time someone said it. The CSM had/has a personal agenda? Of course they do. Do they represent the majority of players? The majority would have had to vote.

Lubomir Penev TTSP.x.X.x.RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.03 15:41:00 - [111] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Mid-2005 start here, I've played constantly ever since. In my opinion, whining is cyclical. There has never been a time without whining, but it peaks from time to time. Instances I can remember it getting loud: - RMR - T20 - Nos nerf - Nano nerf - Zulu's carrier ideas Nozh supercarrier balancing was pretty much there IMHO, at least the uproar was so bad than the most retarded part was killed in the egg and they didn't get to dock... But CCP was still kinda listening to the community at the time. Not the case anymore under overlord Zulu Well, less than a week to go for me. I guess those 5 days free resub will be convenient to check from time to time that the game indeed didn't get better... Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended8/9/2010← the missing space is original CCP material
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2010.08.03 16:18:00 - [112] I think the developers have been building up players expectation by overemphasis of what their expansions will deliver and when those expectations are not met, players believe that CCP is lying. CCP might be deluding themselves of what their expansions can deliver and also often lack foresight of what the consequences of their creations are in the future (i.e supercapital proliferation). They sometimes seem to lack the knowledge of what their playerbase can achieve. I still have some faith, as it IS CCP that created EvE Online in the first place. In regards to EvE they seem to be resting on their laurels. Really something like Incarna & DUST should never have been revealed to the playerbase, until its almost completed and ready for implementation otherwise that just leads to false hope.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.08.03 16:55:00 - [113] Originally by: Bad Princess Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance? Well I started in 2003 when the server was around 5000 people and the game was pretty rough and ready. Every week seemed to have some new drama, every patch had calls for "rollbacks", there was plenty of drama with GM actions and interventions (mine field removal, fleet teleports and the Jovian mining laser scandal etc etc) but the thing was there was a real sense that the developers were playing the game too and it was a process of collaborative developent alongside the player base. Things got fixed and fast. The game improved massively over the course of a couple of years and the scope with it. Of course nothing was perfect, I had my own feud with the old t20 era community manager that lasted years but in the end it got resolved. Drama and bugs and exploits and fiascos all seemed to add intrigue and excitement to the game because the developers were involved and were taking us along on their journey to make the best dark science fiction universe where brutality and betrayal were commonplace and the unwary could lose anything to a bad decision or simply bad luck. I think we did hit a similar low point before Apocyrapha though - then it became apparent the old developers were leaving for the states and the Vampire game and Eve had six months of not much attention and it was a bit of a shock to the system and during the first CSM (on which I served) we were told that Eve was returning to its roots and most of the development talent was coming back to work on the super expansion to come (and it paid off) apocrypha was superb and remains my favourite expansion ever. But after that I think things have slipped again. The vision desire for Eve the all-encompassing space opera simulator has exclipsed the perception that promises must be kept and expansions should be iterated until all the announced features are implemented. Faction warfare, dominion, tech3 these are orphaned features now and there is a lot of unhappiness. And ironically the CSM function could have been used by CCP to warn them about this - certainly the players have been very good about using the assembly hall to highlight issues and preferences and the only tragedy of the CSM project is how little CCP have ever seemed to listen to it. Whats unique about this summers Eve doldrums is just how bleak a future with no substantive development on unfinished and much loved features will look for 18 months. At the moment the state of the game is not too good. I'm not a 0.0 blobfest player and I never really liked the huge 500 a side sovereignty fights - but I do like roaming small gang pvp and even that is not currently possible in 0.0 due to horrible lag, session-bugs, traffic control and generally horrible performance. Dominion hasn't really worked to make the 0.0 game more dynamic, its just let to increased blobbing (and terrible lag). PI is frankly unfinished pre beta ish with no real interactions between players on the planets (and nothing like the fanfest presentations promised us). Faction warfare could be utterly brilliant if it had a developer team working on it mind. Its a massive missed opportunity. But we keep coming back to the 18 months thing. If Eve had launched with a single patch and the devs telling us (don't worry about bugs and unfinished features we'll start working in 18 months) then it would have crashed and burned and sunk without trace. The game flourished and survived because it had constant care and attention and a lot of continuous work. Now seven years on the code base still needs care and attention because nothing lasts forever. And it needs work now, not in 18 months time. Incarna and Dust might be pretty, but they are nothing if the core game is abandoned. Still I just resubbed my accounts - mostly because Eris is still working for CCP :) Join the Revolution!
Soup'Chef	Posted - 2010.08.03 21:27:00 - [114] Posting with an alt because the main account has run out (9 days left on this one). Don't particularly care if EVE is dying or not - it just seems that my dreams of what EVE could be and CCPs have drifted apart quite a bit in the past few years. That's not really news in itself, but the last CSM minutes and CCPs public reaction have made it impossible to ignore. Additionally, the part of the game that has kept me going for a long time (fleet engagements) hasn't been working properly for quite a while. So why would I want to continue paying for this? And this time around, it doesn't just seem to be the end of the road for me.
Xtreem Gallente DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 21:40:00 - [115] to confirm .. again eve has always had omg eve sucks etc threads, since back in the day! although saying that.. eve is at it least stable as of now when compaired to user base! 5k on a sunday was massive when i was a newbie, but the game was massivly playable on the tech of the eve cluster of that time, its only in 2010 the servers have not been able to keep up with the scale (although they did in 2009 with the same numbers hence so many people posting about it, it effectivly HAS actually got worse this time)
Mr M 1st Republic Army	Posted - 2010.08.03 22:47:00 - [116] What some people seems to forget is that all the people over at CCP also has a job to do. They can't spend all their hours on poding noobs who by accident stumble out into low sec. (I'm looking at you TomB.) And that job may not always be what you really like like to do. Every pvp alliance out there has a bunch of guys mining away. Maybe not because they want to, but because the alliance needs the minerals and the money to be able to build new ships and expand. I truly believe Incarna, or to be exact the graphic engine behind it, is CCP's mining. They need it to diversify and increase their market share and be able to expand faster. But in the end that effort will be good for Eve and it's players. Eve Tribune\|EVEgeek\|Firebrand Radio
Raneru Euphoria Released	Posted - 2010.08.03 22:54:00 - [117] /me puts on rose tinted glasses Ah yes the good olds days. You see kids, back then the battleship was the king of the skies and if we wanted to move stuff from empire into 0.0 you got a hauler and braved the gatecamps, none of this carrier and jump freighter nonsense. A "big" fleet fight was 100 people in system and we fought like real men and flew 40 jumps to get to our destination with sniper BS. The people who occupied 0.0 actually fought for their space and didn't rent it out or overload the system with numbers to get them. Mining was actually worth doing as there weren't hordes of afk hulk bringing prices down. /me takes glasses off Torps that could kill frigs in a single hit? No jump cloning? Rubbish (or no) stealth bombers? Hub systems overloaded with a few hundred people? I'll stick to todays eve
Xiang Jiao	Posted - 2010.08.03 23:56:00 - [118] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer It's called "Internet Negativity Syndrome". The very condition of being at the computer also implies there is nothing else to do, or bored at work, and the day sucks. Therefore when there is nothing much to say, what is said is negative. Wow, that sounds serious! Good thing they hired a public relations firm to nip this little problem in the bud. I have to admit that I've had less desire to log into Eve lately. She has become more like a chore than a way to relax and blow off some steam. I'm ashamed to admit that I've been playing around town with other online games. I just hope Eve doesn't find out and cut my thumbs off!
Koba Kyogen Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.08.04 00:52:00 - [119] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Shouldn't you be working on an unwanted 3D chat feature? Can't wait to talke with all my Spacebook firends. Can we have virtual gardens and farms please? Pathetic. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
Adacia Calla Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2010.08.04 01:01:00 - [120] CCP has been doing their thing for 7 years, It's had it's ups and downs, but people are really PO'd more than usual for no apparent reason.

Tacolina	Posted - 2010.08.04 01:09:00 - [121] Quote: Can we have virtual gardens and farms please? Dont forget the avatar emotes. I wont be happy unless my character can do a jig.....not
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2010.08.04 01:55:00 - [122] Edited by: Nyphur on 04/08/2010 01:59:41 Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. I knew my recent Massively articles were being passed around internally at CCP for discussion but it's awesome to see they're being helpful. I think I'm in something of a unique position in the EVE community at the moment. As a long-time player, I can definitely see the game from a purely player perspective (and in this case I can see exactly why players are reacting the way they are). But I also usually find myself with a lot more information than the average player and I'm often trying to take an impartial stance. I think both those factors give me a different perspective on issues like this and I try to get as much of that across in my writing as I can. It must be confusing for someone inside the company to see players reacting so strongly, but that's what happens when players lack of any kind of context for the data provided. Internally, I'm sure devs know how much work 22 people dedicated to expansion features can get done, and what features they're working on too. I know you do internal demonstrations as development progresses, so I'm sure everyone also knows how far along Incarna is. And someone's sure to know what release window it's being planned for and why dedicating 70 developers to it is strategically important right now. The big issue here is that nobody's talking to us about those things (and others). Perhaps the bigger issue is that when devs DO talk to us about a feature or expansion that's coming up, they tend to take an idealised look into the future. If a feature's in the early design stage when we hear about it (as happened with PI at fanfest), many of the ideas put forward could fail to make it into the game. Whether the decision to change a feature before release is made explicitly by someone in the company or it comes as a result of technical/resource limitations, I don't know. What I do know is that the original ideas for features we hear about early rarely make it through the development process completely in tact. Perhaps this reputation of over-promising and then under-delivering is why developers don't talk to us more about the features they're designing -- at any point that design may change and an almost-promise might be undone. But if that's the development process and features changing shape is something we should learn to expect, that's absolutely fine. Just tell us about that too so we know. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.08.04 07:14:00 - [123] I started in '06, and this is almost as bad as the whole T20 incident. Of course, none of the *****ing and moaning effects me, because I am not a 0.0 slave...err...resident. That was bad enough that I canceled my 100 accounts and went to find another game. I couldn't find another game, and came back. This is THE best game that's ever been made. Sure, it's not perfect, but if it was...we'd all be jobless wretches giving hand jobs behind the liquor store for internet connection money. In my opinion, this "feels" different because of the CSMs. More things come to light that we didn't see before, "normal" every-day things that are what they are. It's like watching your girlfriend take a crap, it's "normal", but seeing it for yourself changes things... Move more towards what the players want CCP. We love you, but after seeing you take a dump we need to see you take a shower and put something sexy on.
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2010.08.04 08:24:00 - [124] Indeed, impressive honesty by Eris, sounds like she didn't get the memo stating CCP employees should appear as a united front and never admit there are issues. Management likely isn't pleased. Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. It's official now, Dust will be the end of CCP/us all. CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.08.04 08:25:00 - [125] playing since summer 2003 here. a Game is made people play it, some play it alot. peole get used to game, game changes in any way - adding - unhancing - ballencing - people are to adapt and that makes people pisy. Every time any major ballance change has been implemented you have two sides screaming at each other and a larger potion in the middile who just let it happen in silence waiting for the finished article - then if it 'sucks' or is 'awsome' some switch sides but in the end the ratios are still very similer. Back in 2003, pretty much for the first year there were extended downtimes, server reboots, crushing lag spikes (spikes happend fequently, "oh did you just get a lag spike" local spam etc) and compared to those first few months to a year eve was averagly MUCH slower and more unstable than it is now, thankfully all we have to worry about really is contect or ballence rather than hardware or software glitches. In the end ccp arnt stupid enough to take things to the piont where a large portion of players stop subbing and if that were to happen they would roll back and rethink. Its totally true about the forums displaying 90% whinage, but the total equuates to less than 5% of the actual ingamers who blissfully play the game as it is, for the money thay sub with and leave the ballencing for the warriors and devs. es theres a tremendous amount of whines right now with extra lag in 0.0, but my opinion is thta 0.0 has been NOT FUN and a crap fest with crap mechanics for years - thats my personnel view. therefore i do not see ANY lag problems untill a very large gang meets another in low sec or empire. This doesnt mean 0.0 isnt a total lag pit since the most recent patch, but i cannot comment directly, and further more i dont care. However 0.0 drives the massive empire trade economy and is integral to the workings of the game and so those uba alliences and their fleets of supers, so they too must be kept happy.
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2010.08.04 10:14:00 - [126] Originally by: Sakura Nihil - RMR - T20 - Nos nerf - Nano nerf - Zulu's carrier ideas And of course, the instance we find ourselves in at the moment. This one is different though, in that I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the devs before. Really, I haven't. Between telling their current subscriber base their long-term business isn't meaningful (that its better spent on new bright-eyed players), to neglecting us of meaningful game development for the next 18 months, to turning a blind ear to the CSM after giving it so much press upon formation. To hiring a PR firm to do damage control in the media, to asking us to vote you in as best MMO after all that - and then, having the gall to unsticky the thread in the hopes it will fade away and people will forget about it? WAKE THE HELL UP. Indeed, wake up because CCP have said they will PROBABLY work on EVE after the coming 18 months. People really are ignorant, because they never said they WOULD. Here's a quick explanation of the word probably: Maybe, we will think about it, possibly and NO. Which part of PROBABLY is hard to understand for you guys? Quote: T20 OMG... T20 caused Threadnoughts the likes of which have never been seen since. We had 150+ page threads that got deleted every other day. Those were unbelievable days... unbelievable and not just the Goons were spamming, it was EVERYONE. Empire pubbies, carebears and nobodies were posting because T20 was one of those cases that could have broken CCP. I've seen whole games die because of Dev corruption but the T20 affair was 'handled' and devs joined every single large alliance, whether intentional or not but checks and balances were maintained. This, however, is something different. This is CCP telling the players they can go ** themselves then have the audacity to tell us to vote for them. If you read MMORPG and other forums you'll see what happened to Sony; players are being told not to subscribe to EVE, because management don't care about the game and could just let it die once WoD and Dust have been released. Also CCP have hired a PR firm to manage our rage, that just shows how bad this CSMgate drama is and we're not only back to the days of T20 but even worse. I appreciate CCP's candidness in saying FU to the players but they underestimated our intelligence (stop being a moron and read Scrapheap Challenge) and ability to strike back. This is one of those cases in which a mouthy community show they won't take ** from anyone, and we're only like this because we care, if we didn't love EVE we wouldn't have cared at all, remember that, children.
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2010.08.04 10:22:00 - [127] Originally by: Dr Fighter es theres a tremendous amount of whines right now with extra lag in 0.0, but my opinion is thta 0.0 has been NOT FUN and a crap fest with crap mechanics for years - thats my personnel view. therefore i do not see ANY lag problems untill a very large gang meets another in low sec or empire. This doesnt mean 0.0 isnt a total lag pit since the most recent patch, but i cannot comment directly, and further more i dont care. However 0.0 drives the massive empire trade economy and is integral to the workings of the game and so those uba alliences and their fleets of supers, so they too must be kept happy. I really don't understand why people keep going on about lag only. Lag is a problem, a serious one, but there're bigger ones: abandoned features that will NEVER get worked on because CCP don't care. I, personally, love big fights and that's why I play EVE and live in 0.0 but I've never tried FW because it's pretty **ed, though I've always wanted to. I remember the day it was released, 0.0 corps left their alliances to give it a shot. They were back within weeks because it was buggy, incomplete, and pretty **ty. Now it's been abandoned and not even a fraction of people are interested in it. Low sec is irrelevant and nobody gives a damn, apart from pirates whose only due is a repeated podding to basic SP. Then we have the imbalance in regards to beams, hybrids and missiles. CCP don't care and the game is now Amarr Online. HAC? Amarr. Dread? Amarr. BS? Amarr. EVE? Amarr. FAIL FAIL FAIL Remember, new features sell, everything else is a waste of time.
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2010.08.04 11:00:00 - [128] EvE isnt dying. I dont see many saying it is. game breaking lagg is unprecidented and people are **ed. They have a right to be. EvE demands alot from players who participate in those battles. Having it reduced to the bumb ** it is right now is an outright insult.
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.08.04 11:46:00 - [129] Originally by: Nyphur ... You really come off arrogant- that's just as irritating. You're close to what at least I feel when reading posts by CCP. It's more standoffish, or as if we're just teased by things. The communication is almost as if talking down to the playerbase. Since around the EA expansion CCP has slowly moved more into this mode of "we're right and we'll tell you. I don't care if you show us we're wrong, we're right." OK that's a horrible way of explaining it. I'll try to make examples- Incarna has 70 developers working on it. So far we have some teaser early builds from 2009, and a short youtube clip of someone walking up stairs (that wasn't even released by CCP to the eve community). We were hoping by now to have updates at least showing that there are significant strides in this... that it's worth all this development time. We have NOTHING. Fleet lag is being worked on, great. However it's only ONE PART of the current content that needs polish. Nothing to show for it.. Nothing new about Dust. Nothing. WTF are they doing?
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.08.04 12:08:00 - [130] Originally by: Xtover WTF are they doing? Saving up all the goodies for fanfest (8 month's from now).

Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.04 12:49:00 - [131] Personal review. I somewhat think EVE lost it's "pace" with the speed nerf. In that I am not saying that the nerf wasn't needed, maybe it was just a little too severe. For example the changes to the warp scram/disruptor. Yes I have adapted but the charged belt activity that I remember no longer "seems" to be apparent. I remember EVE was charged with small gangs roaming high, low and nullsec, I cannot speak for what happens in low/null now, but there has been a noticable drop in gangs frequenting the belts etc, in high now in my evaluation. Maybe wormspace took those players on new prospects, or PI made a change recently, fixing the lag by keeping everyone docked fiddling in station with nice planetary GUI, while reducing traffic actually in the space realm of the game. I remember it was never hard to find a cheap fit fight, no big loss but lots of fun, now, somedays you can wait hours to even see another frigate on a roam, plenty of mining barges on the increase meaning that the current mission loot nerf has done it's job returning mineral collection toward the mining profession.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.08.04 13:05:00 - [132] Originally by: Serpents smile fanfest my god with no new material for 18 monthsÖ thats going to be THE MOST boring fanfest ever. soon to just be "fest"
Cailais Amarr THE ORDAINED	Posted - 2010.08.04 13:13:00 - [133] Originally by: Dr Fighter Originally by: Serpents smile fanfest my god with no new material for 18 monthsÖ thats going to be THE MOST boring fanfest ever. soon to just be "fest" Oh I'm sure the marketing department will have another FF jam packed with over hyped stuff that's happening 'soon(tm)' - like they do every year........ C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2010.08.04 14:30:00 - [134] Originally by: Xtover You really come off arrogant- that's just as irritating. If I come across as a bit arrogant, that's because I'm a bit arrogant. Sorry about that I hope at least the point gets across to CCP that they've been clammed up pretty tight on development lately and players would probably appreciate seeing the results of some of those internal demos they do. People could do with seeing some solid justification for all the resources allocated to things like Dust and Incarna, even if it's just the occasional work-in-progress video, devblog or interview. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
fivetide humidyear Gallente Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2010.08.04 15:41:00 - [135] Playing since just before RMR, the last couple of patches have somewhat disapointed me after the brilliance of wormhole space and T3.And what i see coming does not inspire me, walking in stations meh, DUST514 meh. Please sort out some of the games problems before new content. Please apply some polish to your rough diamond. And then maybe, jst maybe you won't have the reaction to your please vote for us thread. But please Eris, bring back the pink revelation signature, you know you want to.
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.08.04 19:36:00 - [136] as one of the oldest players in the game.been playing since beta i spose i better give my 2 cents .most of the recent patches have never been of benefit to me as i mostly ***** in 0.0 (when i get the chance to login due to work comitments) i think.. and this is just my opinion that for once we just had one release from ccp stating "you aint getting any new shiney toys or new gimmicks.. we have fixed the bugs...now go play the game as we originally intended it to be"as it says on my original box "be who you want to be accept no comprimse" ... sadly this does not appear to be the case. however i intend to go to next years fanfest as i went to the 2004 one and heres me hoping that this time next year i will be wondering why i bothered to post this thread as those cunning icelandic folk will have a resoloved all the issues ... well thats my hope ...well one can wish ... sorry about the spelling ive just got home from work and im knackered destroy everything you touch
Frug Omega Wing	Posted - 2010.08.04 20:03:00 - [137] Originally by: Nyphur It must be confusing for someone inside the company to see players reacting so strongly, but that's what happens when players lack of any kind of context for the data provided. If you think miscommunication is the culprit here, you're sadly out of touch with a lot of the players who are up in arms. No amount of communication now is going to replace results. Read what Jade Constantine writes above this post and talk to some players who are really dedicated to this game, and aren't just trolling or having unguided rage over nothing but lag, and you'll notice communication is less than half the issue. They could tell us that 100% of the devs are now assigned to everything we want, but we'd still be waiting. It's been years of the same, and given the opportunity to explain my point of view, I'll openly say that they leave things half-finished and sloppy, always have, and it's annoying as **** because it's a great and unique game. They were supposed to strive for more polish after they got through their growing pains, they made inches towards that when apocrypha was released and the actually mentioned the word "user interface"... but that's not what they're doing anymore. Outrage at lag and a perceived lack of attention to it appears to be just a more detrimental side effect of the sloppy attitude. Try asking some bittervets about their ancient bug reports, or try a lol feature request, see how that goes. Why even have a features and ideas discussion forum? Or any discussions on balance? These changes only happen in giant sweeping one-pass overhauls and then never get touched again. Hell, look at this forum and how outdated and crappy it is. Or ask people about their evegate links. Ask me about my address book folders. One of my friends was stupid enough to think that when CCP said they would put that feature back in later, that somehow it meant they'd do it before the next expansion. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor
Natalia Kovac Minmatar Phoenix Tribe Art of Defiance	Posted - 2010.08.06 02:00:00 - [138] It seems really sad to me that I won't be able to get into a big fleet fight again (or even take a larger than small gang roaming)for another x months/years and that these big issues and player concerns/CSM backlog etc will not be looked at for at least a year and a half. I mean right now i'm doing small gang stuff again (10 or less), and that's fine (although there have been some lag issues even then), but I don't expect it to hold my interest for ever. And there is only so much content in the game, without adding in new content and new ships etc to train for I feel that a lot of older players who make up a large proportion of your income with their multiple accounts, will just slowly sidle off to better things. And that Eve will wither and die. I don't want to see that happen, but it kind of feels like the way things are going. And that makes me really sad, because Eve has been a huge part of my life for the best part of half a decade.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.08.06 03:10:00 - [139] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Well I just try to do my bit and post a bit more often and give my personal 2 cents on things Don't know if it will do anything or not but I do know I posted a lot less than I used to which is a shame. I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. you deserve a pay increase for addressing a thread like this
Jim Luc Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2010.08.06 03:42:00 - [140] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Xtover You really come off arrogant- that's just as irritating. If I come across as a bit arrogant, that's because I'm a bit arrogant. Sorry about that I hope at least the point gets across to CCP that they've been clammed up pretty tight on development lately and players would probably appreciate seeing the results of some of those internal demos they do. People could do with seeing some solid justification for all the resources allocated to things like Dust and Incarna, even if it's just the occasional work-in-progress video, devblog or interview. I agree - we would love to see some progress. The last demo of Incarna has been two years, when I first got into EVE. Also, an update on all of these Mass Tests and if they've got a fix ready to roll out for this 0.0 fleet lag.

Frank Horrigan Occupational Hazard	Posted - 2010.08.06 04:59:00 - [141] 2003 here. 1. Miss when server peak was 7,000 ppl. space is WAY TOO FULL NOW. Doesn't feel like space anymore. (SOLUTION) We need 50,000 systems, not 5000, eve needs to grow with its population! 2. Way too many highly organized gank squads, I miss when there was just roaming pirates and occasional m0o. (SOLUTION) I don't know, probably same as #1 3. EVE isn't dieing, just more boring then before.. nothing to explore... space is far too full and over competed for. even w-space seems boring after a few hours... its all programmed and static.. formulated.. EVERYTHING is a formula.. boring. but MAINLY. For years my problems all stem from #1. i've explored all of eve.. its all old to me. p.s. 4. Pvp is an unsustainable play style without a t2 bpo or 2+ accounts.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2010.08.06 14:51:00 - [142] Originally by: Frug If you think miscommunication is the culprit here, you're sadly out of touch with a lot of the players who are up in arms. No amount of communication now is going to replace results. Given that we are seeing no results or progress, there are two distinct and mutually exclusive possibilities here. Either there has genuinely been no progress and there are no results to show (i.e. CCP has been doing nothing for two years), or there has been progress in the background and we haven't been kept in the loop. Which one you believe is up to you, but I think assuming a 400-man game development company has done no work aside from the visible results we've seen in expansions is ludicrous. I would lean toward believing there's a lot of stuff the devs know about the work they're doing, but they aren't sharing it with us like they used to. They never did a devblog on the technical debt and mess in the codebase left by Apocrypha, for example. I had to learn about that from CSM member Trebor on his blog. Ideally, players should have been informed about it before Dominion so they could understand where some of the dev time was going that they couldn't see immediate results from. They do occasionally release devblogs on bugs they've tracked down and fixed, which is excellent, but there must be so much more that they know and aren't sharing. They haven't given us any indication of what their latest work on Incarna and Dust look like, for example. The stance that CCP aren't showing us the results of much of the work they do is supported by the complete difference in opinion between developers and players. It's like they have a completely different perspective on the issue, and rightly so. People inside CCP will know a lot more about the state of the game's development and current projects than we do. They've probably seen the latest Incarna prototype in action, while many of us are left wondering why Incarna's even worth the development time. So I don't think that CCP are not achieving results, I just think most of those results aren't immediately visible to players (such as with backend stuff and Incarna/Dust) and CCP have failed to keep us updated on them. That is the very definition of a communication disconnect. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Marikitus	Posted - 2010.08.06 15:21:00 - [143] Originally by: Frank Horrigan 2003 here. 1. Miss when server peak was 7,000 ppl. space is WAY TOO FULL NOW. Doesn't feel like space anymore. (SOLUTION) We need 50,000 systems, not 5000, eve needs to grow with its population! 2. Way too many highly organized gank squads, I miss when there was just roaming pirates and occasional m0o. (SOLUTION) I don't know, probably same as #1 3. EVE isn't dieing, just more boring then before.. nothing to explore... space is far too full and over competed for. even w-space seems boring after a few hours... its all programmed and static.. formulated.. EVERYTHING is a formula.. boring. but MAINLY. For years my problems all stem from #1. i've explored all of eve.. its all old to me. p.s. 4. Pvp is an unsustainable play style without a t2 bpo or 2+ accounts. '03/04 here /agree m8 Also i remember when CCP anounce in 2004.... "we going to add the jovian race in the next patch"........ and look us in 2010 and jovians they there are in his space. well nevermind about that they never going to give us the jovian its his "joker card" in case Eve have a massive fail with 1000 of accounts cancels. Now im thinking.......CCP know this is going to happen and thats why they dont make the Fanfest this year?? and please dont tell about the crissis because they have to much fraqing money a month from us.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Excessum Messor	Posted - 2010.08.06 15:53:00 - [144] The crying is more akin to taking your 2 year old to the toy shops and buying them a nice toy. Later on, you return with the 2 year old to the toy shop and remove not just that 'nice' toy, but a lot of other 'core toys' they relied on and replaced them with 'ZhuZhu pets'. Sure, they look cute and make fun noises, but when you are brought up with LEGO and some one takes your LEGO away, you don't half moan. /me makes shout out to his 08/08/08 spawn who's 2nd birthday is on Sunday, hence the analogy ;^)
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.08.07 00:29:00 - [145] Originally by: Frank Horrigan 2003 here. 1. Miss when server peak was 7,000 ppl. space is WAY TOO FULL NOW. Doesn't feel like space anymore. (SOLUTION) We need 50,000 systems, not 5000, eve needs to grow with its population! 2. Way too many highly organized gank squads, I miss when there was just roaming pirates and occasional m0o. (SOLUTION) I don't know, probably same as #1 3. EVE isn't dieing, just more boring then before.. nothing to explore... space is far too full and over competed for. even w-space seems boring after a few hours... its all programmed and static.. formulated.. EVERYTHING is a formula.. boring. but MAINLY. For years my problems all stem from #1. i've explored all of eve.. its all old to me. p.s. 4. Pvp is an unsustainable play style without a t2 bpo or 2+ accounts. frankie baby ...i think you just hit the nail on the bloody head mate destroy everything you touch
Jaabaa Prime Minmatar Quam Singulari Session Changes	Posted - 2010.08.07 00:53:00 - [146] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible). Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either. Post with your "alt" "main" then ... Back to the OP ... Personally, I've been here since beta, and if EVE would have died as often as people have said "EVE is dieing" then it wouldn't have made it past the 2nd year. I don't really care for the PvE stuff, but there are a lot of EVE players that do, so I'm happy if they are happy (well kind of). The lag issues, which seem to be getting worse with every patch, are whats *REALLY* doing my head in. I've been reading "Need For Speed" for ages now, I just hope that CCP will finally deliver. IMHO, the whole lag issue is not caused by the ships themselves but its actually cause by the number of drones Carriers and Moms (I know, super carriers) can dump into the grid. Its like having an additional 25/10 players on grid. You get 5 Moms and 10 carriers in support and that's an additional 225 "instances" on grid (the numbers are usually much larger and so the the multiplication factor). Apart from that, stability is up, there's been not been another DB rollback since 2003 (or was it 2004?), so everything is good in the EVE universe --


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