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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
308
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 09:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
I, too, want to render 90% of Eve's ships and weapons obsolete and worthless. That sounds like a really good idea. |

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
440
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 17:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:I, too, want to render 90% of Eve's ships and weapons obsolete and worthless. That sounds like a really good idea.
Never said "render obsolete" - merely that maybe, just maybe we should get some new types of weapons to play with, that open up different options. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2020
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
In the beginning, CCP made the Doomsday and bestowed upon it a mighty AOE. They looked, and behold the Doomsday was OP. Thus CCP did nerf the Doomsday's AOE. But the players cried out "Doomsdays are still OP!" Thus CCP did nerf the Doomsday a second time, that it might only be used to rend capital ships. And they looked and saw that it was good. Sort of. Maybe.
In short, superweapons have been done before. They got spammed and CCP was forced to nerf them. The same would happen with the OP's suggestion: FOTM fleets using whatever is the most powerful until CCP escalates to a new one or nerfs the existing one back into balance.
It is a BAD THING to create an environment where there is only one course to winning. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |

Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
This! |

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
445
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:In short, superweapons have been done before. They got spammed and CCP was forced to nerf them. The same would happen with the OP's suggestion: FOTM fleets using whatever is the most powerful until CCP escalates to a new one or nerfs the existing one back into balance.
It is a BAD THING to create an environment where there is only one course to winning.
These are not superweapons. Nor am I suggesting they should be. They should merely be new options - roughly as effective as present weapons, but with new and never-before seen capabilities that force the community to adapt rapidly, rather than stagnate with the same tired old options we've had since day one. |

highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
156
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
I don't agree with OP, i think EVE itself is a constant arms race. An arms race between nullsec powers and highsec powers alike.
Evolving technology is another thing.
And the game is less than 10 years old. Even by real world terms, things evolve fast but not THAT fast.. SEE YOU IN 319 STATION!!! WOOO HOOOO!!!!! |

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
446
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
10 years...
In World War II, designs went from blueprint to build within a span of months, not years. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2020
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:In short, superweapons have been done before. They got spammed and CCP was forced to nerf them. The same would happen with the OP's suggestion: FOTM fleets using whatever is the most powerful until CCP escalates to a new one or nerfs the existing one back into balance.
It is a BAD THING to create an environment where there is only one course to winning. These are not superweapons. Nor am I suggesting they should be. They should merely be new options - roughly as effective as present weapons, but with new and never-before seen capabilities that force the community to adapt rapidly, rather than stagnate with the same tired old options we've had since day one.
What you wrote:
Quote:capable of converting an Apocalypse battleship into a burning ball of exotic matter with a few solid strikes.
That's a superweapon. A single ship able to melt a battleship in "a few" shots is VASTLY superior to anything on the field today.
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Look at the weapons we started Eve with. Beams, pulses. Arty, ACs. Rails, blasters. Missiles.
Look at the weapons we've gained since then. Bombs. Doomsday. Up-scaled capital versions of the same crap we had before. Sentry drones are somewhat new too, I guess. It's like no-one is trying to invent new methods of killing each other - highly unlikely for a game full of creative humans. Why haven't the Amarr, in the decade of arms development that came prior, not addressed their EM/TH dependence with an alternate weapon system that does explosive/kinetic? You'd think their scientists would have come up with a solution to this glaring tactical hole that didn't involve using Valkyries or a launcher with exp missiles, wouldn't you?
A lot of people over the years have clamored for varied laser damage profiles. I can't even guess what that would do to balance. Besides that, adding a specific laser turret that does a specific damage type doesn't address the "problem" you're going after, because you can't switch on the fly if you encounter enemies highly resistant to your guns. You still have the same problem of carrying a single damage profile.
Besides that, you are not FORCED to continue flying amarr ships or using lasers. The vengeance, sacrilege, and damnation are all fine missile ships. Amarr fitting skills apply well to gallente, requiring just ship and turret skills to make the switch. There are plenty of ways to get out from under the EM/therm profile that is apparently a core part of the balancing philosophy for the Amarr. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2020
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:10 years...
In World War II, designs went from blueprint to build within a span of months, not years.
Nobody was concerned about balance in WW2.
This is game, guys. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, not hand out overpowered weapons every few months that will ruin the game for all those not using them. I really wish people would stop trying to shoehorn real life into Eve. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |

Turifica
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
maybe, when you sober up, you'll revisit some of the inferno dev blogs, in which they specifically mention instituting a system whereby modules will be introduced into the game for limited amounts of time, etc. They even cast it specifically as a result of a techonological arms race fueled by the drug Inferno.
drink less, read more. |

Private Pineapple
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
243
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Istvaan, those new technologies you suggested for the Caldari and Minmatar are not new weapons but instead new ammo. I, too, want to see new weapons but new ammo that actually do something new would still be an exciting concept. I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum.
I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
476
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Disclaimer: this is a drunk post.
The arms race. We've had one in recent history, the past (20th) century demonstrating the rapid and aggressive adaptability of technology. Technology is a funny beast. It grows faster and faster. An exponential level of advancement. Arguably this is a continuing effect.
World War I: Infantry waves, trench warfare, brutal artillery. Stalemate-breaker: Tanks.
World War II: Blitzkrieg warfare, tanks, aircraft and carriers. Stalemate-breaker: The atomic bomb.
You see what I'm getting at, don't you?
We've been using the same goddamn weapons since the alpha/beta, bar a few exceptions like doomsday weapons. But there has been no arms race. Sure, the ships gradually and laboriously slowly get better... when Eve started, we had T1... a few years later, T2... and a few years after that, T3...
But they're still using the same damn guns. The same old, stagnant weapons we started with. They may get a % bonus to damage or RoF that's greater than lower-class ships of the line, but they're still using... the same weapons.
No scientist in New Eden appears to be working on NEW WEAPONS.
Here's what I'd like to see:
The Amarr Empire, after decades of technological collaboration with the Caldari State, discovers a method of projecting a particle free vacuum-beam through which an anti-matter beam can be channeled without the risk of anti-matter encountering matter until it hits the target. These weapons produce intense blast and kinetic effects upon impact.
The Caldari, employing exotic particle research involved in the creation of Amarr tachyon beams, invent a new tachyon-shielded warhead that slips through space instantly and arrives on target the second it is fired.
The Gallente, who strategically prefer defense over attack, combine high-explosive knowledge from the Minmatar Republic with their own drones, to create deployable self-regenerating minefields filled with seeking bomb-drones that function like a warp-bubble that hurts.
The Minmatar, thanks to their close relations with the fading Jovian empire, have secured exotic matter warhead technology never before seen among the four empires. These warheads are often unreliable, but when they function correctly, are devastating; capable of converting an Apocalypse battleship into a burning ball of exotic matter with a few solid strikes.
And here's the most important bit: this shit shouldn't be fair. Every few months, there should be a new breakthrough. A new weapon, just invented, that gives one empire an edge over the others... just long enough for the next counter-weapon to be developed.
tl;dr: New ships are nice. We want new weapons too. ("Like" this post if you agree, or post insults if you don't.)
so what you want is tech II meta 2-4 versions of weapons?
cool story bro... i thought this was a good idea 2 years ago...
PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
446
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:10 years...
In World War II, designs went from blueprint to build within a span of months, not years. Nobody was concerned about balance in WW2. This is game, guys. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, not hand out overpowered weapons every few months that will ruin the game for all those not using them. I really wish people would stop trying to shoehorn real life into Eve.
So what you're saying is, "don't add anything new because I'm scared of having to adapt to something unpredictable." Gotcha.
Again, I'm not asking for superweapons. They were just examples of possible weapon designs, and for the Minmatar I wanted something unpredictable that could either fizzle, do damage no different to conventional warheads, or get lucky and blast away a huge chunk of a ship's HP in one hit. |

Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:10 years...
In World War II, designs went from blueprint to build within a span of months, not years. Nobody was concerned about balance in WW2. This is game, guys. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, not hand out overpowered weapons every few months that will ruin the game for all those not using them. I really wish people would stop trying to shoehorn real life into Eve. So what you're saying is, "don't add anything new because I'm scared of having to adapt to something unpredictable." Gotcha. Again, I'm not asking for superweapons. They were just examples of possible weapon designs, and for the Minmatar I wanted something unpredictable that could either fizzle, do damage no different to conventional warheads, or get lucky and blast away a huge chunk of a ship's HP in one hit.
no "crit" plz |

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
63
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 18:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
I for one would love a "TAG" weapon or projectile that marks a ship for 15 minutes so you can warp-to zero on it. This in combo with passive target modules could be quite interesting. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |

Private Pineapple
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
244
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
Let's take it even further. Let's get a tractor beam weapon that pulls your enemy closer to you or further away from you. Obviously this would not be black and white as it has to calculate mass and have small/med/large sizes so frigates can't just move battleships around on a dime, but battleships should be able to move frigates around. Obviously this can't be as fast as existing tractor beams because that would be overpowered, but being able to move a frigate at 500 m/s or something lower would be good, I think.
Oh and lets have a small, damaging Salvager weapon that attacks only your armor (and eventually, structure). I never understood why Salvager modules couldn't be used on "live" ships. It would be logical to have some kind of a module that takes apart another ship at range just like the real Salvager module would take apart a wreck. I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum.
I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
|

EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
how about they fix the ones they have now? |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
631
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
Listing the massive array of new weapons, hulls, modules, and structures that have been introduced in the last 9 years since Eve launched is far too much like effort for me.
Suffice it to say this is a silly thread. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nobody was concerned about balance in WW2.
This is game, guys. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, not hand out overpowered weapons every few months that will ruin the game for all those not using them. I really wish people would stop trying to shoehorn real life into Eve. I think CCP is having a hard enough time as it is balancing out the current weaponry. If they'd be adding new ones bi-annually it would make the puzzle even more complex.
That said, It wouldn't necessarily threaten the balance too much if new weapons or ammunition with SLIGHTLY overpowered statistics would be introduced in LIMITED numbers. This could be in the shape of spreading non-original blue prints through exploration related activities.
By chance the explorer who would be lucky enough to come across such a blueprint would still need to involve resource gatherers and industrialists to acquire the end product (turrets, bullets, missiles, ....) and once those are destroyed/used the original balance would be restored.
On CCP's part it would allow them to experiment with items with potentially wildly different properties that might be fun enough to introduce - in a later stage - as a full fledged alternative to the current weapons/ammunition. " Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand, I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "
|

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
448
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Indeed, I agree.
Another consideration is that it's probably a bit easier to design a turret model, than it is to design an entire ship.
New weapon types are a way to introduce lots of exciting new content, with (comparably) little modeling work. |

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1016
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
i want misles at move slowly but shoot lasers while they fly http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |

Private Pineapple
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
244
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
i want misles at move slowly but update my market orders while they fly I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum.
I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
|

baltec1
Bat Country
1682
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
I want misles at move slowly but RR me while they fly |

Alara IonStorm
2723
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
I want misles at move slowly but post memes on the forum while they fly |

Mallak Azaria
379
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:The Caldari, employing exotic particle research involved in the creation of Amarr tachyon beams, invent a new tachyon-shielded warhead that slips through space instantly and arrives on target the second it is fired.
This has potential. |

Mallak Azaria
379
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nobody was concerned about balance in WW2.
This.
When the Americans found out that the Germans were creating a new weapon of unparalleled destruction, the Atomic Bomb, they weren't concerned about balance.... Oh wait |

Plaude Pollard
Crimson Cartel
58
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
For a drunk post, that's actually a pretty good suggestion. You'd kinda expect the various factions to work on developing new weapons. Maybe even add CIWS (Close-In Weapon System) usable only by Battleship hulls? (To those who don't know what CIWS is, it's typically very small automated machineguns mounted to protect a ship against incoming missiles and small planes)
Just my idea for new weapons, that I've actually missed for a long time. If I had 1 ISK each time a bad idea is posted on the EVE-O Forums, I'd make enough money to live off of PLEX and still be able to afford the stuff I actually need. |

Forum Clone 77777
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 21:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Why do people always have a need to excuse their post "cuz i drunk" ? Does it make you cool or something? |

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
455
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 21:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:Why do people always have a need to excuse their post "cuz i drunk" ? Does it make you cool or something?
Well, I AM extremely cool, so I guess it's working. |

Private Pineapple
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
244
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 21:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
*************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ***************
baltec1 wrote:I want misles at move slowly but RR me while they fly
Alara IonStorm wrote:I want misles at move slowly but post memes on the forum while they fly
And here folks we have two shining examples of fail posts.
Read them closely. Note how these two failures capitalized the 'i' at the beginning of the sentence, meaning they did not properly copy the post from which this series of posts originated from:
MotherMoon wrote:i want misles at move slowly but shoot lasers while they fly
Note the letter i:
MotherMoon wrote:i want misles
So please do not make the grave mistake that these two have made. Thank you.
*************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** *************** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT *************** I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum.
I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
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