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Sig Sour	Posted - 2010.08.08 18:09:00 - [31] Originally by: Higgs Foton 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Raquel Trotter Trotters Independent Trading	Posted - 2010.08.08 18:19:00 - [32] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 08/08/2010 18:08:29 Originally by: Raquel Trotter Please Explain.. You have gone from not understanding that Ratting macros exist to stating how you know it is possible to kill them... And why would it be pointless? Well you ignored my question about macros being able to watch local for anyone else entering the system, which was a good indication you don't really think about it much, and use the term 'macro user' freely for any quiet person that's around alot. If that didn't clear up the second question for you too, a no local hack would be pointless if macros don't run and hide whenever someone else enters the system, like actual people do. I did not ignore your question, I answered it here: Originally by: Raquel Trotter Take a roam through any major alliance held 0.0 space and you will see them everywhere. I have seen them personally all over eve. Pretty frustrating to kill but its possible (without hacks i might add) if you put your mind to it, but very time consuming. As stated, I have seen these personally, all over eve, and spend some time hunting, killing and reporting the players to ccp after I have killed their ships. I am fully aware of the difference between a player at his computer ratting, and one who is cheating by running a macro. The macros instantly warp to a safespot then cloak as soon as any other player enters local, way faster than any actual player could do it. This is how Monkey successfully used his hack to kill them.
Bro Diddley	Posted - 2010.08.08 18:53:00 - [33] Since CCP have stopped him killing golems, the Monkeysphere has swapped sides and is now running a CCP sanctioned macro instead. ~ fk you
Soma Khan	Posted - 2010.08.08 21:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Firkragg Actually if you look carefully elitist ops just took over killing russian macros instead. did they get their own exploiting estonians? Originally by: CCP the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features CSM/CCP Meetings Minutes, June 2010
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:01:00 - [35] Hahaha @ the people who think Monkeysphere made the hacks himself. ___________________
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:02:00 - [36] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 08/08/2010 22:02:42 As a mirror for what happened with Monkeysphere, I am still waiting for the same Russians to be as diligent at reporting macros and reverse - engineering them and telling CCP how to find & ban them. crickets Thought so. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Domonique Molvoy Exploitation Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha As a mirror for what happened with Monkeysphere, I am still waiting for the same Russians to be as diligent at reporting macros and reverse - engineering them and telling CCP how to find & ban them. crickets Thought so. /Thread Domonique Molvoy Shiptoasting extraordinaire
RifterDrifter They Found Oil On Your Anus	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:15:00 - [38] Dem russians really were strangely fast in finding and engineering clues about an supposed exploit, weren't they? I mean for somebody who never before fiddled with the client and all. _______________________________________________
Soma Khan	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Raquel Trotter The macros instantly warp to a safespot then cloak as soon as any other player enters local, way faster than any actual player could do it. you seem to have some kinda esoteric knowledge of ratting macros. do tell how a macro is able to warp "instantly" where a player can not. Originally by: CCP the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features CSM/CCP Meetings Minutes, June 2010
LittleTerror Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Professor Tarantula Probably because he told CCP how he was doing it and helped them patch it. Even people who hack government computers get breaks for saying how they did it. If he told them the exploit as soon as he found it, that would be ok. Killing macro ratters for over a year, some confident enough in their macros to run pretty sweet gear and Monkeysphere walked with that gear... I wouldn't get away with that, most people who play this game wouldn't. Most of us would be perma-banned. So really, why wasn't he perma-banned? Does it bother you that someone else can do something that you would be banned for doing? Killing macro ratters with exploits you say? Bleh Who cares about them, the guy probably prevented several billion isk being sold for real money.
Soma Khan	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:30:00 - [41] Originally by: RifterDrifter Dem russians really were strangely fast in finding and engineering clues about an supposed exploit, weren't they? I mean for somebody who never before fiddled with the client and all. and you would know how long something like that should take? because you've "fiddled with the client and all"? Originally by: CCP the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features CSM/CCP Meetings Minutes, June 2010
Higgs Foton hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Higgs Foton 2 wrongs don't make a right. In EVE online 2 wrongs right YOU ___________________________________
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Mr Epeen Since CCP actively encourage the playerbase to act like total scumbags, they can't really come down too hard on people that cross that nebulous line into what they have arbrarily said is bad play. Mr Epeen Oh? And if I hacked macroer's accounts and stole their isk, CCP is going to allow me to do it? Somehow, I think not. Quote: Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 08/08/2010 22:02:42 As a mirror for what happened with Monkeysphere, I am still waiting for the same Russians to be as diligent at reporting macros and reverse - engineering them and telling CCP how to find & ban them. Many people have already told CCP how to find and ban them. CCP ignores them. How to find them is obvious. They're the accounts that play 23/7/52. Or, they're the guys that have the exact same windows positions across 20 accounts. Or they're the guys that like to roam in 50 identical raven fleets. Or, they're the guys that like to train the same skills in the same order. Or they're the guys running 100 accounts off a small subnet. Sure, nothing is concrete....but that's a start. Automation is easy to find. While mouse clicks and keystrokes can be pseudo-randomized, there are certain consistencies that cannot be explained away as anything but automation, unless your CCP and value your subscriptions over your dogmatic mantra "Marcos are not permissible". Sure, you can say CCP did ban 6000 accounts last year. I would seriously question if they actually did that. Afterall, we only have CCP's word that they did. And CCP is a company that refuses to fire a dev abusing the game and refuses to ban a player caught using an exploit who just happens to have employee friends.
RifterDrifter They Found Oil On Your Anus	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Soma Khan and you would know how long something like that should take? because you've "fiddled with the client and all"? Send me money and i'll tell you the cheat to win EvE. _______________________________________________
RifterDrifter They Found Oil On Your Anus	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:37:00 - [45] 1 Dollar. _______________________________________________
LittleTerror Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:40:00 - [46] Originally by: RifterDrifter 1 Dollar. I'll give you 85 cents, if it includes a can of coke.
Soma Khan	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Mr Kidd Many people have already told CCP how to find and ban them. CCP ignores them. How to find them is obvious. They're the accounts that play 23/7/52. Or, they're the guys that have the exact same windows positions across 20 accounts. Or they're the guys that like to roam in 50 identical raven fleets. Or, they're the guys that like to train the same skills in the same order. Or they're the guys running 100 accounts off a small subnet. Sure, nothing is concrete....but that's a start. Automation is easy to find. While mouse clicks and keystrokes can be pseudo-randomized, there are certain consistencies that cannot be explained away as anything but automation, unless your CCP and value your subscriptions over your dogmatic mantra "Marcos are not permissible". you forgot to mention delayed local in 0.0. would solve that part of the problem. Originally by: CCP the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features CSM/CCP Meetings Minutes, June 2010
LittleTerror Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Soma Khan Originally by: Mr Kidd stuff you forgot to mention delayed local in 0.0. would solve that part of the problem. A delayed local in 0.0 would actually be a very good thing since most with half a brain would use the directional scanner to warn them of threats but the whining from the stupid's always wins the hearts and minds of CCP. After living in WH space for a while its not that hard to stay safe with no local, sure you have cloakys and they are the biggest threat but WH space is no local at all until one speaks. In 0.0 a delayed local of about the time it takes for a person to warp from max directional scanner range 14 AU and then a little extra would be awesome.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.08.08 22:57:00 - [49] I live in a wh, what's local?
Raquel Trotter Trotters Independent Trading	Posted - 2010.08.09 07:57:00 - [50] Edited by: Raquel Trotter on 09/08/2010 07:59:11 Edited by: Raquel Trotter on 09/08/2010 07:58:02 Originally by: Soma Khan Edited by: Soma Khan on 08/08/2010 22:25:31 Originally by: Raquel Trotter The macros instantly warp to a safespot then cloak as soon as any other player enters local, way faster than any actual player could do it. you seem to have some kinda esoteric knowledge of ratting macros. do tell how a macro is able to warp "instantly" where a player can not. and how do you actually tell the warp is "instant"? It's purely through observation via lots of solo hunting of 0.0 Ratters. The knowledge is not esoteric, it's pretty obvious to anybody who has ever tried to hunt and kill 0.0 npc'ers Occasionally you come across a live player, npc'ing, who is acually on the ball and watching local, and actually manages to warp from a belt as soon as you enter local. However, there will always be a delay in a humans reaction time. A bot will initiate warp the instant you enter local, leaving very little chance to catch them via a traditional directional belt scan's. I know its instant purely from directional scan. How do I know they are bots? Apart from the observational evidence (ratting 24/7, instant warps on local etc). I know as when I finally catch them at their belt, and I am proceeding to kill them, they do not do any of the things a live player would do. i.e. lock me back and try to kill me, set drones on me, call some buddies for help etc. Nothing, no reaction, They just sit at the belt, continuing to shoot rats, even switching targets to the next rat, until they die.
Musical Fist Gallente NAP Coalition	Posted - 2010.08.09 08:26:00 - [51] Tbh I think it was wrong of CCP to fix this exploit all Monkey did was what we all wanted anyway, who really is going to lose sleep over macro ratters losing their ~~virginity~~ ships. BRING BACK THE SPHERE OF OZ!! Also confirming PL cheated in the alliance tournament too using various hacks and exploits etc etc -- Recruiting now open!!
Trauli	Posted - 2010.08.09 08:31:00 - [52] Hes still stuck in a wormhole and is rearing a new baby in RL
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.08.09 10:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Trauli Hes still stuck in a wormhole and is rearing a new baby in RL ETA on getting out? 18 months? He might be lucky then, he could see the dawn of a fixed EvE! - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Richard Christy	Posted - 2010.08.09 11:01:00 - [54] Originally by: Soma Khan Edited by: Soma Khan on 08/08/2010 22:25:31 Originally by: Raquel Trotter The macros instantly warp to a safespot then cloak as soon as any other player enters local, way faster than any actual player could do it. you seem to have some kinda esoteric knowledge of ratting macros. do tell how a macro is able to warp "instantly" where a player can not. and how do you actually tell the warp is "instant"? Maybe the macro goes to the trouble of aligning to an SS at full speed (more trouble than the normal ratter would go to, perhaps) whilst going about its ratting business. When local goes up, warp is initiated pretty much instantly. As for know how this is the case, that's anyone's guess.
Zeke Mobius	Posted - 2010.08.09 11:07:00 - [55] Edited by: Zeke Mobius on 09/08/2010 11:07:28 Originally by: Mr Kidd Sure, you can say CCP did ban 6000 accounts last year. I would seriously question if they actually did that. Afterall, we only have CCP's word that they did. And CCP is a company that refuses to fire a dev abusing the game and refuses to ban a player caught using an exploit who just happens to have employee friends. QFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT I smell another massively article on CCP corruption.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.09 12:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Raquel Trotter Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 08/08/2010 18:08:29 Originally by: Raquel Trotter Please Explain.. You have gone from not understanding that Ratting macros exist to stating how you know it is possible to kill them... And why would it be pointless? Well you ignored my question about macros being able to watch local for anyone else entering the system, which was a good indication you don't really think about it much, and use the term 'macro user' freely for any quiet person that's around alot. If that didn't clear up the second question for you too, a no local hack would be pointless if macros don't run and hide whenever someone else enters the system, like actual people do. I did not ignore your question, I answered it here: Originally by: Raquel Trotter Take a roam through any major alliance held 0.0 space and you will see them everywhere. I have seen them personally all over eve. Pretty frustrating to kill but its possible (without hacks i might add) if you put your mind to it, but very time consuming. As stated, I have seen these personally, all over eve, and spend some time hunting, killing and reporting the players to ccp after I have killed their ships. I am fully aware of the difference between a player at his computer ratting, and one who is cheating by running a macro. The macros instantly warp to a safespot then cloak as soon as any other player enters local, way faster than any actual player could do it. This is how Monkey successfully used his hack to kill them. WTH is an instant warp? If I'm ratting and I instantly warp from my spot and cloak as soon as someone enters local do you consider me a macro? . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.09 12:33:00 - [57] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 09/08/2010 12:33:59 Originally by: Raquel Trotter As stated, I have seen these personally, all over eve, and spend some time hunting, killing and reporting the players to ccp after I have killed their ships. I've seen people quietly going about their business everywhere too. Sometimes for many hours at a time. I don't think that makes them macro users, though, and my question remains unanswered. Originally by: Raquel Trotter The macros instantly warp to a safespot then cloak as soon as any other player enters local, way faster than any actual player could do it. Ahh, this must be the answer you've been talking about for so long. Glad it finally decided to make an appearance. I hope you understand if i don't go ahead and believe you can 'just know' when people are using macros. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.08.09 12:48:00 - [58] Sure he was killing macro ravens 2 years ago. But his last weeks of exploiting he was definitely killing non macros.
Simetraz	Posted - 2010.08.09 13:42:00 - [59] Not really. I see 3 ships on most of the kill mails and just a guess but.... Goose Hypocrisy - Arazu - was the character that was kept logged in. NPC corp so he would wonder around cloaked, so I could see people getting him fused with an ISK farmer (maybe not forever but log enough). So all he would have to do is wait and log in the other 2 characters (The Monkeyshere, LoL Internets) once he gets someone locked down.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.08.09 15:03:00 - [60] At least this "Monkeydude" exploit must have something to do with some CCP insiders, every other would have been permabanned. And how much PL was involved in this exploit was never brought up, as the original thread was derailed and trolled by various PL people. For me, i can smell something CCP wise.....

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