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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:47:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Estel Arador I don't think a dedicated news agency would be needed, but it might be useful if ISD had one or two contacts which it could run business related articles by before they're posted.
We're always looking for more people to help us with our work and it's clear you have a significant interest in this and yet I've not seen an application from you. Why not apply if you think you can make a difference?
If you do apply though, please don't mention it here as it will void your application.
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.16 14:09:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Note that the reporter was in an ideal position to get an answer to these questions, since he did the interview. Vaerah Vahrokha would expect readers to go after this type of information, but that is completely unrealistic
I always assume by default that anything both in game and RL I read or watch is written by:
- incompetent or manipulated people - biased people - hidden agenda people
At this point I can choose to "believe" the news that don't impact on me and focus on those that impact on me. In the latter case, if I don't get to know my own **** it's fair and square that I'll get face-humped (worst case scenario).
The sad part is that even in RL people "just believe" to whatever manure is thrown at them, even in important topics like their savings account and similar. You may find my scenario unrealistic, I call it "enjoy the best but be ready for the worst".
If others prefer to delegate knowledge and decisions to others... be my guests, social engineers need some stupid meat to manipulate after all.
As soon as you make assumptions regarding the production of what you read and use your own view of the "agenda" of the people who write it, you bias your perception of that product; something you deride the producers of that product for doing at the creation stage.
By all means have a critical eye aimed at our output but please don't hang us by the same "bias" that you by your own admission use in your reading.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.08.16 14:44:00 -
[243]
Edited by: SencneS on 16/08/2010 14:45:16 ISD Serathu Ashk, the problem is much more simple then most are making out. Unintended consequences.. There is a certain responsibility to journalists, to realize ALL consequences of reporting a particular news story. A real life example of this is reporting identities of undercover law enforcement or agents etc. You could have the best intentions to report of a hero who has stopped 80% of the coke-ain hitting the streets by taking down an entire cartel. Or how an undercover agent in Afghanistan found the location of Osama which lead to a bombing and confirmation of his death etc. As much as "Good" intentions are, the unintended consequences of such a feel good article can lead to the death of that very person you're honoring for eternity in print..
While the news article is not the same caliber the effect is the same, people sent ISK to this guy because it was reported as a Bank. What do people do with Banks? They give it money in return for interest. So the responsibility to the journalist is simple to work out the following.
1) If I report this as a Bank, and people see that is a bank how will they react. 2) In real life a Bank is used to house money in return get interest or access to their money. 3) Money is EVE is ISK, so the logical conclusion is, ISK from players will be going to this new Bank.. 4) Scamming is legal in EVE and people scam for ISK.. 5) Can I live with the fact that this ISK could be scammed by any player who deposits ISK?
If the answer is YES then ISD is partly responsible for any ISK that is scammed. Is the answer is NO then you should retract the article and issue an appropriate response to all those that lost their ISK... I hope this makes it a little more clear at least from my perspective why I didn't like this particular article.
Edit:- weird, ok...
Amarr for Life |
Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.16 16:30:00 -
[244]
If you really wanted to start a bank, you should've done your research first (as people have stated multiple times in the thread). I've never invested in a bank because there's no mechanics in EVE to ensure that you wouldn't get scammed somehow.
Also, the website is ...er...not secure. No HTTPS for login or even using the PIN specified when registering? No API links? Nothing? Everything on there is wide open; one of the very things that would turn people away (other than the less-than-great performances by other banks).
When I saw the ISD article I thought "hey, if it's reported then it must be an actual attempt"...but from the looks of this thread, it's questionable at best. I forgot to mention that you are in fact reading something that is called a signature. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.16 17:26:00 -
[245]
Quote:
By all means have a critical eye aimed at our output but please don't hang us by the same "bias" that you by your own admission use in your reading
My reply was not aimed at you, the only critic I'd feel like to pose is about the reference to Chribba. It'd be a real letdown to have people associate him with this fiasco, after all what Chribba has done to stay neutral and "correct".
Finally, I am biased indeed and I say it with a straigth face. I am super-over-mega defensive, because in my life I had to HTFU and surround myself in a thick defensive shell otherwise I'd be ruined for good. I am confident others had a linear and happy life with no shakeoffs nor earthquakes, kudos to them. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.16 21:48:00 -
[246]
Thanks for the replies ISD Serathu Ashk.
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk In real life, I totally agree with you. Accountability is a key part of journalism and this is a constant source of conflict in my head given the way IC has to operate. However, we operate this way for good reason; please allow me to explain.
EVE isn't like real life in the sense that the actions in EVE carry far less severe consequences than actions in real life. If a reporter were to write an article exposing the failings of an alliance, that alliance could very easily make the game unplayable for the reporter in question. (...)
This issue is one of the biggest reasons why reporters cannot use their player characters to report news.
I don't find this a very compelling reason, for various reasons. In no particular order:
- Personal consequences to a report might motivate the reporter to create a better, more objective story. - It is not a reason to publish all reports under a pseudonym. One could imagine a system where potentially damaging stories are published a general "from our correspondent" while other pieces are reported under the real name. - Other players have no problem at all reporting on events in/around EVE under their own name on external sites (Massively, Tentonhammer, blogs, etc).
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk We're always looking for more people to help us with our work and it's clear you have a significant interest in this and yet I've not seen an application from you. Why not apply if you think you can make a difference?
The reason why you haven't seen an application from me yet is simple: I can't contribute using my own name. I don't have a very fluid concept of identity. My active characters are called Estel Arador, Estel Again, Estel Also, Estel Alt, and EstelArador CorpServices. About half of other the "Estel ____" which can be found ingame are former trial characters I had. If I were to join IC, I'd need a name like "ISD Estel A___" and I don't think that's allowed.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.18 03:44:00 -
[247]
Can't believe I missed this one! Where do I put my isk?
[SoE:X]
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T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.18 04:51:00 -
[248]
That took some reading to get to this page.
While I'm always impressed by the intelligence oozing from some members of this subforum, I am overwhelmed by your seriousness. Anybody want some hat?
-T'amber
[SoE:X]
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:34:00 -
[249]
Interestingly, Hydra Fund has been approached by TheBankofEve today.
This made me skim through this thread. A couple of things are standing out: 1) There has been no response here since the first few day, neither a triumphant post or a serious of post reporting "problems" 2) Given the number of pages that this scam discussion is covering, one thing is striking: where are the investors? In any scam every single one will line up their claims and how they feel about it. I can see only two people that have claimed they have frozen accounts, Ubi Dellmar and Megalift.
My guess is that there was never any real influx. I could have my one million isk returned, but I won't since people would just get wrong ideas. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:26:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Cista2 Interestingly, Hydra Fund has been approached by TheBankofEve today.
This made me skim through this thread. A couple of things are standing out: 1) There has been no response here since the first few day, neither a triumphant post or a serious of post reporting "problems" 2) Given the number of pages that this scam discussion is covering, one thing is striking: where are the investors? In any scam every single one will line up their claims and how they feel about it. I can see only two people that have claimed they have frozen accounts, Ubi Dellmar and Megalift.
My guess is that there was never any real influx. I could have my one million isk returned, but I won't since people would just get wrong ideas.
A couple of things stood out for me too...chiefly a lack of engagement by bank management. If they want to run a Bank, that is part of it.
1) Huge security/privacy holes on the website 2) No evidence of withdraws being done 3) Zero communication from bank management
Three strikes and your out. Projects Blog |
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Benei Drigsby
Gallente Lifecycle Freight
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Posted - 2010.08.18 12:09:00 -
[251]
So basically, some A1C from finance puts together an in-game EVE bank and its "advertised" on the pop up I pay no attention to when I log in. AF finance offices are notorious for jacking up peoples pay, so I don't get why that was a selling point. Heck, that's a huge red flag.
I just read through all of that hoping for some juicy ending, or some foolish Airman posting his ID card for the world to see. More to come....?
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Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.08.21 10:36:00 -
[252]
In a previous post, I reported that my Bank of Eve account was inaccessible on the website and that the bank was unresponsive to my requests for assistance.
I have since received communication from the bank character and now have access to my account from the website.
The banking character claimed that they had not received my EVEmail. I show the mail in the sent folder, so either we have an EVEmail glitch or the request was buried and missed.
So, for the time being, I'm going to let my ISK ride and see where this all goes.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.21 11:43:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Cista2 on 21/08/2010 11:43:53
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar I have since received communication from the bank character and now have access to my account from the website.
Well that's bl**dy interesting. Despite all the publicity and drama there is currently only a single person (Megalift) with an ongoing problem now.
Edit: Sorry, I mean, we only *know* of a single person. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.23 03:33:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Cista2 Despite all the publicity and drama there is currently only a single person (Megalift) with an ongoing problem now. Edit: Sorry, I mean, we only *know* of a single person.
Well, that depends. Would you say that the definition of "problem" for a would-be-bank encompasses (i) a failure to provide basic information about the purported bank's operations, or (ii) a failure to follow through with simple and easy-to-keep voluntarily promises? á á
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K3JD6
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Posted - 2010.08.26 13:34:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04 Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
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Yanneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.27 05:14:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Yanneau on 27/08/2010 05:17:03 Edited by: Yanneau on 27/08/2010 05:16:33
Originally by: K3JD6
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04 Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
I can't believe that. And is this supposed to be a bank? secure, confidential.. I can just LOL or ROFL (or even better) ROLFMAO to that. 10 mins ago, I was naively planning to make some deposits (I'm a noob what else do you expect? ) but after reading this thread, there's no way they can convince me to deposit even 1 ISK.
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Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.08.27 06:30:00 -
[257]
Originally by: K3JD6
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04 Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
Wow. That's really weak.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.27 15:08:00 -
[258]
Originally by: K3JD6
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
What plagues me way more than the obvious privacy issue here is that ?p=<path to filename to execute> part of the URL. This screams "Hack me!". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.27 16:54:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: K3JD6
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
What plagues me way more than the obvious privacy issue here is that ?p=<path to filename to execute> part of the URL. This screams "Hack me!".
Haven't we come to an agreement that the money put in has basically been lost at this point? And we've already figured out the whole - you can see everyone's balance - problem. It's bad bad bad, mk?
Still (whY???) thinking about putting your $$ in? DON'T!!
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Londo Cebb
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Posted - 2010.08.27 19:03:00 -
[260]
I was thinking of depositing some Isk. into this yesterday, however I found a much more secure investment. Apparently some nice man in Jita is giving away his fortune. All I had to do is send him all my Isk. and he is gonna send me back double! He hasen't sent it back yet, but I am sure he's just busy.
How, for the love of zombie Jesus, could anyone still be thinking of sending "TheBankOfEve" even a single Isk.?
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.27 21:01:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Londo Cebb How, for the love of zombie Jesus, could anyone still be thinking of sending "TheBankOfEve" even a single Isk.?
Perhaps because after the prominent coverage of ISD, there's still a follow-up article to come, which questions at least the business plan & practice of this "bank". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.08.30 05:20:00 -
[262]
Ok.
I just launched a withdraw request to pull from my savings account.
Let's see how long this takes...
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.08.30 07:05:00 -
[263]
I find two things hillarious about this "bank" 1) ISD were moronic enough to post a story, totally unsubstantiated, about a bank that has no backing whatsoever.
2) This thread has gone on this long.
It's a scam. Anyone with half a brain can see that it's a scam. Not sure why all the discussion is necessary.
As for ISD telling people to 'apply' if they want more accuracy. That's not how it works. If you're going to publish "news" you should check your facts before you publish. Duh.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.30 12:45:00 -
[264]
I already smell the next "bank" around the corner ...
Bank script wanted
-- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Dzil
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.30 22:45:00 -
[265]
So has there been a follow up story yet? Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.31 16:45:00 -
[266]
You must be new here ... -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.09.01 06:34:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar Ok.
I just launched a withdraw request to pull from my savings account.
Let's see how long this takes...
The withdrawal was processed 20 hours after my original request.
Not ATM quick, but the ISK did end up in my account within a day....
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Londo Cebb
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Posted - 2010.09.01 06:37:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar
The withdrawal was processed 20 hours after my original request.
Not ATM quick, but the ISK did end up in my account within a day....
Screenshots and your API key or it never happed.
On second thought, an alt is an alt is an alt.....
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Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.09.01 22:55:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Londo Cebb
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar
The withdrawal was processed 20 hours after my original request.
Not ATM quick, but the ISK did end up in my account within a day....
Screenshots and your API key or it never happed.
On second thought, an alt is an alt is an alt.....
You have a valid point. I can tell you that I'm just a customer and I have ISK on the line (which is the truth) and there is no way for anybody to verify one way or the other.
Welcome to EVE...
I'd like to see a bank work in EVE. I was wiling to drop 50m ISK into it to see if this was the flavor of the month scam (probably) or the start of the first bank in New Eden to actually work the way it should. So, I view this as an experiment to see if someone can pull it off. I fully expect to lose EVERY isk I put into this venture. If it actually works, I'll be pleasently suprised.
Well, not every isk, since I've pulled 10m back out.
To date I'm not real thrilled with the customer service from TBOE. They are slow to respond and they have been way too quiet on this forum, given the hype that TBOE got from the misguided press release. Then again, since it seems that nothing they say would make anybody satisified that this isn't a scam, I can see why they wouldn't bother posting. Kinda' chickens*** to stuff ones head in the sand, rather than stand up and defend your dream / scam.
Screen shots can be faked. You need my API key like I need another hole in my skull..
So, I'll just keep on reporting the results of my experiment. Take it or leave it..
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.09.02 09:08:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar
You have a valid point. I can tell you that I'm just a customer and I have ISK on the line (which is the truth) and there is no way for anybody to verify one way or the other.
Welcome to EVE...
I'd like to see a bank work in EVE. I was wiling to drop 50m ISK into it to see if this was the flavor of the month scam (probably) or the start of the first bank in New Eden to actually work the way it should. So, I view this as an experiment to see if someone can pull it off. I fully expect to lose EVERY isk I put into this venture. If it actually works, I'll be pleasently suprised. Well, not every isk, since I've pulled 10m back out.
And yet their statistics page shows the exact same two figures like it did - what? - 2-3 weeks ago:
TOTAL ASSETS ACCOUNTS LOANS $3,968,303,050.15 98 0
I'm not saying you didn't invest and withdraw your money (or haven't received it). It just shows that this "bank" doesn't even use the minimum possible automatism.
As much as I also like to see a working bank in EVE, this one clearly couldn't be it right from the start just for technical reasons - intended scamming or not aside. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
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