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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 15:43:00 -
[1]
Thebankofeve.com is a new bank standing itself up in New Eden. We're now accepting new accounts and members who would like to bank through us. This can be a good way to set your extra money aside and earn a little extra income on your fortune. We'll also be looking for experienced players who are interested in helping to operate a banking corporation with us as we grow. There is also an investors page for anyone interested in investing in The Bank of Eve.
If you want to know more just post here and I'll try to answer any questions or concerns. You can learn allot about the bank from the website though.
TheBankOfEve.com/
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 15:52:00 -
[2]
Tell us what you know about the history of banking in EVE.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 16:06:00 -
[3]
Who are WE?
And by that I mean, who are you main characters?
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2010.08.08 16:22:00 -
[4]
Predicting a good ending to this thread
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.08 16:28:00 -
[5]
Posting in a soon-to-be-epic thread.
As for serious discussion, I honestly don't know where to start...
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Llu
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Posted - 2010.08.08 16:44:00 -
[6]
Quote: Checking accounts are accounts that offer a higher level of liquidity. Checking accounts pay 1.5% interest monthly and allow account holders to make up to 5 withdrawals without any service fee. Any withdrawals past 5 per month will be charged a service fee of 50,000 ISK.
Quote: Savings accounts offer every player a way of increasing they're isk without even having to be online! These accounts are designed for players who are saving for ships, stations and other high value items. Savings accounts pay 3% interest monthly and allow account holders to make up to 5 withdrawals without any service fee. Any withdrawals past 5 per month will be charged a service fee of 250,000 ISK
Why would I bother with a checking account if I can get double interest and still have my 5 withdrawals per month?
Also why do you think 20% of profit would be enough to motivate people to become shareholders? Usually the number would be reversed in favour of the person investing...
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:00:00 -
[7]
Higher service fee on savings accounts, lol.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: http://www.thebankofeve.com/?p=agreement SECURITY AND MONITORING The Bank of Eve is audited weekly and monitored 24/7 by an email reporting system. At the end of every week multiple members of the board of directors conduct audits of the server corporate logs and makes sure there is no discrepency. All money is secured and backed by The Bank of Eve. No one will ever be denied monies rightfully owed to them.
Please describe:
- the nature of this "email reporting system";
- the composition of the board of directors, and their experience with auditing in EVE;
- the identities of the board members who conducted the most recent audit (according to the website, you started selling shares on 2010-07-26, so at least one audit's been done, right?);
- the results of last week's audit;
- how ISK is "secured" and/or "backed"; and
- the fraction of deposits that you will keep liquid.
á á
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:04:00 -
[9]
SO, sweet deal, I've started an account with 500,000 isk. It'll take 24 hours for my account info to process. I'm excited. Gonna earn the big bucks.
Bahaha.
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Lord Arbalest
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:06:00 -
[10]
Have you carried out research on past Banking in EVE? If so, you would have constructed a far more detailed post to ensure you answered as many queries that potential customers here on MD would raise. Which in turn suggests you have done little research/put in little effort resulting in me questioning why I should entrust ISK in anything that has been willy nilly put together?
It would be nice to know who the players are that will be running this 'bank' - once again, information that potential customers would want to know. Who are we going to be entrusting our ISK with? One? Two? Three people?
What security do you have in place? Contingency plans?
Have you made realistic forecasts on a financial side?
I could carry on....
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: website
COLLATERAL Some loans may require collateral. This will typically apply to higher value loans and long term loans requested by Alliances and Corporations. This also applies to individual players requesting high value loans without a strong banking history.
Ermmm ... this is a troll or scam, right?
You don't require collateral.
You pay out 1.5%-3% interest on deposits, which are neither secured nor even backed by the dubious currency of reputation.
You are asking for investments as well as deposits, without any kind of business plan or indication of NAV.
On the plus side, you're pitching yourselves as competitors to EBANK, which seems about right.
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W3370Pi4
ExoGeni Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:31:00 -
[12]
lol i will invest all my isk i had in my ebank account
ohwait.....
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:02:00 -
[13]
Ray McCormack; It would take a good and detailed paragraph or two to describe the history of banking in EVE over the years. There have been failures and what some people might define as success. EBANK had themselves robbed, DBANK offers interest rates that are unreasonable and unsustainable and there have been a few other small start-up banks just like this one who are trying to provide a service to the citizens of New Eden.
Ji Sama; SmashEgo is my main character a simple Indy Miner. Zombie Mike is the corp ceo a simple place holder account made to run the corp. ZeFritz is a miner/pvp player and is partially responsible for auditing. Blastyoazz666 is a miner/pvp player who is responsible for auditing on a mandatory weekly basis and optionally on a daily basis. Bizlady & Bizlab (Wife & Husband) are responsible for auditing as well on a weekly basis and are also responsible for approving or vetoing changes in bank policy. All of the listed members are responsible for conducting themselves in a manner conducive to quality banking and are all members of the board of directors who vote on any changes to the bank policy. All members are 21yrs and up. 2 of these members are active duty USAF who work in finance jobs and handle many large and small transactions on a daily basis for the USAF.
Estel Arador; Our profits are derived from members going over the alloted number of transactions who will be charged a minor penalty for each transaction over the limit. These charges are presented and clearly visible at all times on the website. We also earn profits in the form of collected interest from loans made to individuals, corporations and alliances or selling collateral when someone fails to repay a loan.
Llu; 20% of the profit each and every month will be paid as a dividend to our share holders. This is meant to represent the realistic ownership of shares in a real world environment. If you invest in a company such as google at $300 a share it can take up to 5 years for that share to earn its value. 20% is actually a large percentage of any companies profits considering we need to use the other 80% to continue the growth of the bank itself.
And to answer why you would only create a savings account. There are higher fee's on removing funds from a savings account. We want you to be able to add and withdraw your money whenever you want, its your isk. But a savings account is for someone who plans on adding more than they withdraw and we pay a higher level of interest as a reward for being frugal and saving.
Thoraemond; I'm running out of allowable text in the forums, I'll actually update a page on the site that you can view and post it soon to answer your questions.
Lord Arbalest; I did not wish to post a long and boring post when the website should provide enough information. However because of the large number of questions presented I will be updating the site with more relevant information. And yes, there was allot of research put into this endeavor before launch. Hexxx from EBANK himself has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE.
RAW23; It's not a scam, and it's less of a competition and more of a "we're offering a service comparable to that of EBANK" with the intention of learning from the failures of other banks and providing an enjoyable, quality, secure banking service. We intend to provide a banking service that is built on a stronger system of checks and balances. And as for collateral, it's needed for anyone wishing to take out a loan, you don't need any just to open a checking or savings account.
This should sum up most of the questions I'v seen so far and I'll continue to answer any more questions that are posted. But also bear in mind that we're also looking for advice and input on how to provide a better banking experience and cater to the needs of our customers.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:04:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04
There was another thread a few days ago linking to this website - can't find it right now.
Edit (the ceo posted some info just before my post): I admire the determination in preparing this project and lauching it headon on MD.
Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
To the guys behind the bank: you absolutely need to actively make a profit with the isk in the bank! The money from transfer fees will not be enough to finance the rates on the accounts, and if you plan to give loans to people without collateral, well, then you're dead. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Ray McCormack; It would take a good and detailed paragraph or two to describe the history of banking in EVE over the years.
That's fine, use all the paragraphs you want, CCP won't run out of space on their forums.
So far you've given a very broad interpretation of the various banking failures EVE has seen (which completely miss the point), but how do you see these influencing your operation?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Ray McCormack; It would take a good and detailed paragraph or two to describe the history of banking in EVE over the years. There have been failures and what some people might define as success. EBANK had themselves robbed, DBANK offers interest rates that are unreasonable and unsustainable
1. Go back and do your research for at least another year
2. DBank kept all the ISK well over a year ago when their database crashed, it has been dead since then.
3. EBank has hundreds of billions in unsecured loans that will never be repaid. On top of that Ricdic walked with a couple hundred billion and RMTed it. It has been trying to recover ever since, but trying to recover a few hundred billion isn't going to happen anytime soonÖ.
4. Every single person who has access to depositors ISK must be known! Right now for all we know Riethe is running this whole operation.
TLDR; You know nothing about banking in EVE.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve We intend to provide a banking service that is built on a stronger system of checks and balances. And as for collateral, it's needed for anyone wishing to take out a loan, you don't need any just to open a checking or savings account.
Well, collateral for loans is a good start. You might want to amend the relevant paragraph on your site, though, as it says something rather different.
A couple of extra questions for you:
How much isk have your directors previously handled ingame?
Do any of you have a public track record (I can't find any posts on eve-search)? If not, how are depositors/investors meant to be able to distinguish this from a scam other than on the basis of your word?
ps. The EBANK comment was a joke. Saying that "we're offering a service comparable to that of EBANK" is probably not the best approach to marketing you could take as it is questionable whether EBANK was ever a successful venture even before getting ripped off by Ricdic.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:27:00 -
[18]
Cista2; In regards to "one man scam". The website itself is managed by one person because of the lack of web editing skill by any other member of the bank or board. I will update the website with a page detailing each member of the board.
It can be overwhelming though when launching something of this magnitude and I apologize if there is still a shortage of relevant information on the website. I will try and get that information up as soon as I can. Currently I'm at work though. This thread will hopefully bring to light all the questions everyone has and I can make sure it is all presented quickly and in a very organized manner.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:31:00 -
[19]
Alright lets do this!
Eve Search: SmashEgo Eve Gate: SmashEgo
Eve Search: Zombie Mike Eve Gate: Zombie Mike
Not looking good so far! All characters are less than a month old! Ergo you are a totally new player, or simply lying about who your main character is.
There are no character named ZeFritz Eve Search Eve Gate
Eve Search: Blastyoazz666 Eve Gate: Blastyoazz666
Here we at least have a character with some posting history!
Possible alts: blastyosister blastfromhel
Eve Search: Bizlady Eve Gate: Bizlady Eve Search: Bizlab Eve Gate: Bizlab
So what did I get from your list of names? One character that looks like a main, but could just as well be a mining alt!
And 5 characters that have a very high chance of being alts.
So I will ask again, who is your main character?
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Breaker77 2. DBank kept all the ISK well over a year ago when their database crashed, it has been dead since then.
3. EBank has hundreds of billions in unsecured loans that will never be repaid. On top of that Ricdic walked with a couple hundred billion and RMTed it. It has been trying to recover ever since, but trying to recover a few hundred billion isn't going to happen anytime soonÖ.
Seems you also need to finalise some of your research.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: TheBankOfEve on 08/08/2010 19:02:21 My main is less than a month old due to the fact that I played Eve religiously prior to joining the air force. 2 Years in the air force and I've finally landed a job that is more relaxing and stress free and allowed me the time to play eve again. I do not know my old account information and because of a jealous ex probably don't even own the email it was linked to anymore either. You would be right about the age of my character being a month old. It's actually 2 months old, but my experience is not just that of someone who has only played for 1-2 months.
Id also like to think that my experience handling many financial transactions on a daily basis for the air force would give me some solid standing to manage Eve ISK.
EDIT: Ray; We don't plan on issuing large unsecured loans for that very reason. It's our job to not only make a profit from the capital we're entrusted with but also to prevent losses as well. We are all heavily invested in this bank ourselves and it's in our best interest and our customers to provide the best banking experience that we can.
Blast also has several accounts he has developed over the years, but because he has a son he recently had come back into his life he has cancelled his subscription on prior accounts and is now focusing on his newest account.
Also I don't know why Zefritz isn't showing up for you. It's roughly as old as my account is and he is someone I work with in finance and fell in love with Eve the first time I showed it to him. He is a newer player but very familiar with finance and banking.
As for the biz's they are a husband/wife couple. They are a military family, though bizlab is an army Sergeant. All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Breaker77 It has been trying to recover ever since, however no one running it has any idea what they are doing. /finger
Seems you also need to finalise some of your research.
Better now?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
The people running Enron were in a position of trust in a large company. Look how well that turned out.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve My main is less than a month old due to the fact that I played Eve religiously prior to joining the air force. 2 Years in the air force and I've finally landed a job that is more relaxing and stress free and allowed me the time to play eve again. I do not know my old account information and because of a jealous ex probably don't even own the email it was linked to anymore either. You would be right about the age of my character being a month old. It's actually 2 months old, but my experience is not just that of someone who has only played for 1-2 months.
Id also like to think that my experience handling many financial transactions on a daily basis for the air force would give me some solid standing to manage Eve ISK.
Blast also has several accounts he has developed over the years, but because he has a son he recently had come back into his life he has cancelled his subscription on prior accounts and is now focusing on his newest account.
Also I don't know why Zefritz isn't showing up for you. It's roughly as old as my account is and he is someone I work with in finance and fell in love with Eve the first time I showed it to him. He is a newer player but very familiar with finance and banking.
As for the biz's they are a husband/wife couple. They are a military family, though bizlab is an army Sergeant. All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
What is the name of your old main character?
SmashEgo is from 2010.06.30 so he is around 40 days old, Zombie Mike is from 2010.07.17 so he is around 21 days old, TheBankOfEve is from 2010.07.26 and that makes him around 14 days old! None of your characters is 2 months old!
Considering you say you have years of experience, I would find it hard to believe that you cant recall the name of your original character!
The Biz family, are clearly alt characters!
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve military backgrounds
Can you offer anything that can actually be substantiated? Obviously, any scammer could say exactly the same things and as such, these claims do not carry any value.
When you say you are all heavily invested in the bank, can you tell us exactly how much (potential investors need to know this)?
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: TheBankOfEve All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
The people running Enron were in a position of trust in a large company. Look how well that turned out.
Enron was run without any real auditing by any major branch of the federal government. EBANK suffered the same effect of being allowed to run without real audits preformed by anyone with knowledge of the banking or financial industry.
When any account change has been made by anyone allowed access to the bank it is automatically recorded and an email is sent to each members email account. Every action is public to every member of the board and because we all have a vested interest in the wellbeing of the bank we all keep a close eye on the movement of money.
As we grow we would also like to allow more people access to our logs and allow outside auditing as a further countermeasure. One thing disappointing here is that I'm seeing allot of critics and not a single post with suggestions on how we can improve The Bank of Eve.
We all know other banks have failed and I'd like to give props to EBANK for at least trying to save the bank. I think that should be considered more of a success than a loss because at least they're trying to redeem themselves.
We're committed to preventing another disaster like EBANK, and hopefully in time we'll have earned New Edens trust in our commitment to service. Tell us what you think we can do better and if you'd like to get involved with The Bank of Eve we'd love to see supporters and take advice.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:32:00 -
[27]
Quote: One thing disappointing here is that I'm seeing allot of critics and not a single post with suggestions on how we can improve The Bank of Eve.
Pro-Tip: It will get much, much worse before it gets better.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: TheBankOfEve military backgrounds
Can you offer anything that can actually be substantiated? Obviously, any scammer could say exactly the same things and as such, these claims do not carry any value.
When you say you are all heavily invested in the bank, can you tell us exactly how much (potential investors need to know this)?
I'll post a link to a picture of me in uniform and then you can look up the public ICCAN record for the .com owner of thebankofeve.com that way you can see that my nametape matches the public record of ownership for the site and see that I am military and that the picture actually matches the record.
And in terms of investment, I'm investing my credibility and ISK. My credibility is at stake because again, you can look up the ICCAN registry and see my full name and probably address. Everyone else has invested ISK upwards of 2 Billion total to cover loans and any losses on loans.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
I'll post a link to a picture of me in uniform
I have a full set of BDUs with my name patch and everything on them. I've never been in the military but maybe now I can just link a pic of it and guarantee 100% that I'm in the military.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Breaker77 Better now?
Not really. You can hide behind lolbank bashing if you want, but it doesn't change the fact your recounting of history is as far off as the OPs.
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Danny Blitz
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: TheBankOfEve All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
The people running Enron were in a position of trust in a large company. Look how well that turned out.
Enron was run without any real auditing by any major branch of the federal government. EBANK suffered the same effect of being allowed to run without real audits preformed by anyone with knowledge of the banking or financial industry.
When any account change has been made by anyone allowed access to the bank it is automatically recorded and an email is sent to each members email account. Every action is public to every member of the board and because we all have a vested interest in the wellbeing of the bank we all keep a close eye on the movement of money.
As we grow we would also like to allow more people access to our logs and allow outside auditing as a further countermeasure. One thing disappointing here is that I'm seeing allot of critics and not a single post with suggestions on how we can improve The Bank of Eve.
We all know other banks have failed and I'd like to give props to EBANK for at least trying to save the bank. I think that should be considered more of a success than a loss because at least they're trying to redeem themselves.
We're committed to preventing another disaster like EBANK, and hopefully in time we'll have earned New Edens trust in our commitment to service. Tell us what you think we can do better and if you'd like to get involved with The Bank of Eve we'd love to see supporters and take advice.
The suggestion is that you provide us with any reason to actually trust you. One of the more curious bits is that none of these other members have come here to provide testimony, and, certainly, there doesn't appear to be any reason to believe that any of these accounts is more than a trial, or a trial with Steam time added.
(If the Steam time bit is what you've done here, I have to applaud you at organizing this scam quite well. If it's not, you really ought to start answering up questions and appealing to the critics - largely because you don't silence the critics by calling them critics.)
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:51:00 -
[32]
Sorry guys, I am not handing you my email adress. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
I'll post a link to a picture of me in uniform
I have a full set of BDUs with my name patch and everything on them. I've never been in the military but maybe now I can just link a pic of it and guarantee 100% that I'm in the military.
Well your certainly not getting a copy of my Military ID for Comsec purposes. And I'm sure your uniform is lacking a function badge, operations badge and proper rank. And if they're BDU's then they wont even be authorized uniforms at the end of this year. Besides it's also illegal to actually put the U.S. AIR FORCE tape on the left breast pocket because thats impersonating a member of the US military. And I don't know anyone who keeps 5 pairs of tops and bottoms around just for fun WITH proper rank and insignia sewn on being that their near $100 a set after sewing rank on.
Give me a reasonable request for proof I'm Active Duty USAF and I'll provide it. But if you want pictures of my ID or something that can be used in an illegal manner to attempt access to US GOV property I won't provide it for COMSEC reasons.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:54:00 -
[34]
I don't think anyone actually cares if you're a member of the military or not. I doubt anyone cares if you pack shelves at night in a supermarket or invest millions on the market during the day. Real life has no implications here.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:55:00 -
[35]
Questions/comments:
1. The customers have to trust the people running it that they won't steal or lose their money
2. The customer have to have good access to their funds. Whatever issues there are with EBANK their website and customer transactions were very good.
3. The bank has to be profitable. What if in your scenario you make money from withdrawal fees and lots of people put funds in and don't remove it. You will be wiped out in a hurry.
4. Loans only work if you take 105%+ collateral to guarantee bank isn't scammed.
5. Why would someone come to your unknown bank for a loan when they can go to well known players for collateral backed loans that have a higher degree of trust than they do with you.
6. Why should players trust you being so new.
7. Do you know who your competitors for loans are? Do you know the rates they charge? Amount of collateral needed? Their cost of capital?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:57:00 -
[36]
Edited by: RAW23 on 08/08/2010 20:03:47
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: TheBankOfEve military backgrounds
Can you offer anything that can actually be substantiated? Obviously, any scammer could say exactly the same things and as such, these claims do not carry any value.
When you say you are all heavily invested in the bank, can you tell us exactly how much (potential investors need to know this)?
I'll post a link to a picture of me in uniform and then you can look up the public ICCAN record for the .com owner of thebankofeve.com that way you can see that my nametape matches the public record of ownership for the site and see that I am military and that the picture actually matches the record.
And in terms of investment, I'm investing my credibility and ISK. My credibility is at stake because again, you can look up the ICCAN registry and see my full name and probably address. Everyone else has invested ISK upwards of 2 Billion total to cover loans and any losses on loans.
That would be an interesting way to back up your claims of a military background . A cynic might ask which way to the fancy dress shop but I'll wait for the photo first.
Seriously, though, don't do that. Especially if it would publicly reveal your address. That could have serious consequences in this day and age [whisper: there are people out there who don't like the US military much].
As to the 2 billion figure, that is a useful start for meaningful conversations. So:
1. What makes you think you would be able to handle tens, hundreds or even thousands of billions of isk effectively?
2. Would you be willing to have a third party audit done to back up your figures?
3. Iirc, on your website you are selling 4 billion isk in shares for 40% of the company. How did you reach your 10 billion isk valuation for the business (I stole that one from The Dragons Den )
edit - And as the others have said, the military background is not, in any case, particularly compelling (although it may appeal to some veterans but, I seem to recall, one of the reasons Lui Kai got trusted before he ran with a few bil was his being ex-military).
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:58:00 -
[37]
If you blot out the important parts on your ID, I do not remember exactly what the US ID looks like, but the one I have, have no really dangerous information on it besides my social security number!
You can mail that to me at ceo(dot)fnord(add)gmail(dot)com with a picture of yourself in uniform to match the picture on the ID, in the picture on the uniform, you would have to hold a paper in your hand, stating; TheBankOfEve!
Then I could confirm on these forums, your real life identity. However this say nothing of intend or ability!
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RaWBLooD
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:59:00 -
[38]
I support this new bank.
*Disclamer miners-you can: switch, rob, wardec, nerf, scam them, buy below market, pirate them on their way to sell. mining < trading, ratting, manufacturing from market bought minerals,they still wont go away |
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:00:00 -
[39]
You are missing the main point.
It's impossible to establish trust without having a background in EVE. DBank, EBank, and all the others that have came and gone were ran by established members of the EVE community. They were not startups by 1 month old characters.
No one here cares about anything you do in real life. We only care about your EVE history!
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:05:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Breaker77 DBank, EBank, and all the others that have came and gone were ran by established members of the EVE community.
You're very much like Ricdic with such assertive 'factual' posts. Whilst EBANK was started by relatively well-knowns, DBANK was started by complete unknowns. And I have no idea what 'all the others' you refer to, but I'm assuming none of them were established community members.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Hexxx from EBANK himself has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE.
What's his involvement exactly? What advice has he given? Have you ignored anything he said?
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:23:00 -
[42]
Ji Sama; I work at a base that stores sensitive strategic weapons. Because of the nature of this base I cannot upload any photo not even a blurred out photo. I could care less about my social and date of birth being on it.
I will go as far as to show myself and Fritz his RL name i Fitzgerald in our uniforms and hold up the paper for you.
Breaker77; The USAF and FINANCE CAREER were only brought up to substantiate our combined skill at managing money and to hopefully establish some level of trust with our customers in that we are running this bank with integrity.
RAW23; To answer your first question, I have a background in finance. I handle transactions on a daily basis and assist personnel with financial questions and concerns, budgeting, investing in bonds etc. . .
And because I designed the current system based on one we use at work it's very efficient and easily managed.
For question number 2. YES! It's already been stated that as we grow we want to bring in outside auditors and also increase the size of our board as required. We're always going to be looking for more dedicated players interested in improving the service we offer.
Lastly the board decided before going public that 4 Billion would be the minimum amount of capitol we would need to be able to offer loans and back interest payments. We are also only selling 40% of the total stock to investors. This increases the value of the stock for those who do invest.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:25:00 -
[43]
Please, enough with the military already. Only Curzon Dax would care.
----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:27:00 -
[44]
Forget your RL stuff.
Anyone who invests will not care about photos or anything don't even post them.
If you like you can have a think about my comments and questsions above.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:28:00 -
[45]
Edited by: RAW23 on 08/08/2010 20:30:26 Putting scepticism aside for a moment, here are some (hopefully) useful suggestions:
1. Present a proper business plan. Regarding shares, you need to lay out some projected figures so that shareholders can get an idea of what roi they can expect on their investment.
2. Set a cap for total investments and deposits. No one sensible will be happy giving you money on the assumption that you could be taking an unlimited amount of investment without any track record.
3. Try to get someone with a track record involved. You don't, currently, have any ingame credibility to lose but you might be able to piggyback on someone who does if you can convince them that this is worthwhile.
4. 3 above may also help with questions of auditing and accountability. Internal audits and checks and balances are not going to mean much if they are conducted by people that potential investors have no reaon to trust.
Basically, build slowly. It is a BIG ask for people to give you money at deposit interest rates as low or lower than anything else available and with no security. You need to put in some time and effort convincing people that you can be trusted and the way to do this is to start small and then grow. |
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Breaker77 DBank, EBank, and all the others that have came and gone were ran by established members of the EVE community.
You're very much like Ricdic with such assertive 'factual' posts. Whilst EBANK was started by relatively well-knowns, DBANK was started by complete unknowns. And I have no idea what 'all the others' you refer to, but I'm assuming none of them were established community members.
Fury bank, EIB (Which Ricdic was in before EBank), and well some people consider BMBE a semi-bank.
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Carl Stewart
Blueprints For You
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:31:00 -
[47]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve ...
Give me a reasonable request for proof I'm Active Duty USAF and I'll provide it. But if you want pictures of my ID or something that can be used in an illegal manner to attempt access to US GOV property I won't provide it for COMSEC reasons.
Mr Bond, is that you? Researched Blueprints for you, Ammo, Fighters, Drones and Ships |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:37:00 -
[48]
You aren't thinking out of the box here, the pictures are important because they can confirm he is telling the truth. Now would the pictures tell us if he is a scammer? or incompetent? surely not! Does it make him trustworthy, no not at all. But as we say in Denmark; "Many small brooks make a strong river."
We can then focus on his credentials and business plan!
@TheBankOfEve Now I can only tell you what I know from my own experience in the army, and our ID's does not indicate where we are stationed at! It only reveals our name, rank, role, social security number, eye/hair colour, height and a picture. But I can understand that the US is a little more paranoid, even though we are in the coalition with you! However, instead of ID's just provide pictures of your dogtags then! I am sure they have no sensitive information on them! With the picture of you in uniform holding the paper where TheBankOfEve is written on!
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:41:00 -
[49]
Requesting 20b loan plz
Store |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 20:42:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Breaker77 Fury bank, EIB (Which Ricdic was in before EBank), and well some people consider BMBE a semi-bank.
Cally was an unknown when he started EIB, only some very deep digging revealed his main and that was during the final stages of his demise.
In MD terms, so was Fury Banker.
TornSoul is the only exception there.
Read the first few threads surrounding any of those banks and you will gain a bit more insight into what you're talking about.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Thoraemond; I'm running out of allowable text in the forums, I'll actually update a page on the site that you can view and post it soon to answer your questions.
The information I asked about would be fine in this forum.
Originally by: TheBankOfEve One thing disappointing here is that I'm seeing allot of critics and not a single post with suggestions on how we can improve The Bank of Eve.
It will become possible, or at least much easier, for people to offer suggestions on how to improve the "bank" after you describe how it is currently set up. á á
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Carl Stewart
Originally by: TheBankOfEve ...
Give me a reasonable request for proof I'm Active Duty USAF and I'll provide it. But if you want pictures of my ID or something that can be used in an illegal manner to attempt access to US GOV property I won't provide it for COMSEC reasons.
Mr Bond, is that you?
If I told you I'd have to kill you.
And as to the ID post. Our US Military CAC(Common Access Card) do not show our base of station. I can even tell you what base I'm stationed at on here. But because of the strategic nature of the base and the importance of the resources we guard here I can't post a picture of my CAC card because it could be duplicated or modified for any manner of use. And I'd show you a picture of my dog tags if I still had them. I don't know about Denmark but we don't have to wear or even keep our dog tags unless we deploy to a combat zone. If I deploy my logistics section will issue me a new set.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:13:00 -
[53]
My helpful bit of advice: less talk about military/rl, more about business/eve.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:17:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Ji Sama on 08/08/2010 21:20:39
Every soldier in peace and wartime have their dog tags issued! It is part of our combat uniform, and not wearing it would be a violation of the uniform codex!
Now I cannot say what it is like in the states!
EDIT:
Originally by: Estel Arador My helpful bit of advice: less talk about military/rl, more about business/eve.
Join the chorus!
If you could just stfu, we could have had this done in no time! Instead you* have wasted more posts on saying this isn't important than we have discussing it!
*You as in the rest of you naysayers!
It is however obvious that he is dodging a fair amounts of questions! But letting him chatter reveals a lot about character, some of us work on that level, others work on pure fact or theory!
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:21:00 -
[55]
This just might make it onto the best of MD.
Also, I agree with Cista2, along with numerous other flaws that this plan has (most glaring is the lack of accountability) 3% interest on savings accounts cannot be funded by transaction fees... People simply won't take out their money more than once a month if they are going to get a charge. They'll just be inconvenienced to draw more money at once, which might make it hard to keep a more steady accounts payable (is this right??). The profit is going to have to come from issued debt, and 3% for savings is a lofty-but-hard to obtain goal.
GL.
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:24:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Phoebe Halliwel on 08/08/2010 21:25:25 You spelt "amount" wrong on your website. Repeatedly.
Think you've approached this from the wrong angle, shiny website followed by intro to MD and discussion. Would have been wise to have introduced youself to MD (and done some detailed research) before launch to at least get your face known. You could also have tried running some offerings in MD to establish some credability.
The fact that you only have 10b between all the involved owners of the bank doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your ISK making abilities. Stating that you will rely on penalty fees for excess transactions is flaky at best, what's your back up plan? Put it this way, you would not be viable by MD standards for a 4b, uncollateralised/unaudited loan with such a weak business plan. Why should you be because you throw out a website and stick "bank" on the offering? If you'd done your research you'd know that label is more likely to put people off than anything else.
Fact is, after the Ebank/Dbank failures other well known/credible MDers with several hundred billion ISK to back them up, put together a proposal for a bank (ECR? I think). It hasn't launched as yet. There's significant issues about banking failure and the long term viabiity of banking in Eve, which you appear to be either ignorant of, or have decided to ignore.
You really need to stop banging on about your RL and answer the relevant questions, in particular address the points raised by cosmo. ed. or just resolve Ji's point and move on instead of arguing about it!
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Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:25:00 -
[57]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve I could care less about
So close..... If you were what you professed to be you wouldn't have used that.
This is not a legitimate offering in any way shape or form. Great, you got the ISD interested and will, possibly, gain good coverage/investment from that. So far you have singularly failed in providing anything of any substance to reassure those with whom you seek a financial relationship. Your answers have been inept and evasive.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:30:00 -
[58]
Good advice. And about advice, I'm still taking all of it I can get. When I'm not at work and on a better internet connection I'll update the site with all that I said I would.
I've learned allot allot of what can be done to improve the site from the posts and my biggest understanding so far has been this;
Because of the history of scams and failures in Terms of Eve Banking the citizens of eve want a more transparent bank with more public information and free access to it. More details will be made public about how we operate so that both members and investors have a deeper understanding. We want everyone to know that they're hard earned ISK is secure and I also understand that it's going to take time to build our reputation.
I'm sure in time we'll be able to prove ourselves. If your really skeptical you could consider opening a savings account with a low deposit of 5-100K ISK just to try it out. We value all customers whether you deposit 100K ISK or Billions.
I encourage you all to try The Bank of Eve with a minimal deposit and if your completely dissatisfied just withdraw all of your ISK.
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:32:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Lucyna on 08/08/2010 21:32:14 ed double post again :(
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:46:00 -
[60]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
If your really skeptical you could consider opening a savings account with a low deposit of 5-100K ISK just to try it out. We value all customers whether you deposit 100K ISK or Billions.
I encourage you all to try The Bank of Eve with a minimal deposit and if your completely dissatisfied just withdraw all of your ISK.
Wrong approach.
Prove yourself then you'll get the ISK. Asking for small amounts is tantamount to begging. Whether you get 100m in small deposits or 4b, you'll come back to the forums and claim success for large numbers of accounts opened.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:47:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma
Originally by: TheBankOfEve I could care less about
So close..... If you were what you professed to be you wouldn't have used that.
This is not a legitimate offering in any way shape or form. Great, you got the ISD interested and will, possibly, gain good coverage/investment from that. So far you have singularly failed in providing anything of any substance to reassure those with whom you seek a financial relationship. Your answers have been inept and evasive.
First of all when using quotes it's proper to quote the entire sentence instead of just editing it for your own misguided purposes. "I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND DATE OF BIRTH" posted on the back of my CAC card. You can obtain most people's DOB and SSAN from a well typed google search.
And you say I'm dodging questions or answering vaguely, please post a list of questions I have not answered in a clear or detailed manner? I have ignored attempting to answer some of the posts with lists of questions that will require me to go over the character limit allowed in these forums and will post full length responses to these questions presented in a clear web post because the answers to those questions I feel should be posted on our site and made public for the benefit of everyone.
And I admit that myself and others posting here have let the sbject of my RL career go a little too far. But I'm very proud of my job and the values it has instilled in me. From this post onward that's all that'll be said about it.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 21:54:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
If your really skeptical you could consider opening a savings account with a low deposit of 5-100K ISK just to try it out. We value all customers whether you deposit 100K ISK or Billions.
I encourage you all to try The Bank of Eve with a minimal deposit and if your completely dissatisfied just withdraw all of your ISK.
Wrong approach.
Prove yourself then you'll get the ISK. Asking for small amounts is tantamount to begging. Whether you get 100m in small deposits or 4b, you'll come back to the forums and claim success for large numbers of accounts opened.
That's an offer to try the service. And It's not about bragging rights. What good would bragging about accounts opened do? It's about offering a service to the players of eve that myself and other passionate eve players are able to offer out of our love of the game and it's deep financial culture. Our only goal is to provide a truly secure and satisfying banking experience for those eve players that are looking for an eve bank that won't let them down.
Someone also brought up the low investment numbers. We aren't trying to be like every other bank startup in eve who took hundreds of billions of isk from players and squandered it or lost it. We're going to start small and grow. Starting out with enormous goals and expectations with unreasonable claims will do us no good and just cause instability.
You have to learn to walk before you can run. And we're walking slowly for the benefit of our customers. To protect their investment and ours.
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Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 22:22:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Sytoru Hiroshyma on 08/08/2010 22:23:30
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma
Originally by: TheBankOfEve I could care less about
So close..... If you were what you professed to be you wouldn't have used that.
This is not a legitimate offering in any way shape or form. Great, you got the ISD interested and will, possibly, gain good coverage/investment from that. So far you have singularly failed in providing anything of any substance to reassure those with whom you seek a financial relationship. Your answers have been inept and evasive.
First of all when using quotes it's proper to quote the entire sentence instead of just editing it for your own misguided purposes. "I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND DATE OF BIRTH" posted on the back of my CAC card. You can obtain most people's DOB and SSAN from a well typed google search.
And you say I'm dodging questions or answering vaguely, please post a list of questions I have not answered in a clear or detailed manner? I have ignored attempting to answer some of the posts with lists of questions that will require me to go over the character limit allowed in these forums and will post full length responses to these questions presented in a clear web post because the answers to those questions I feel should be posted on our site and made public for the benefit of everyone.
When quoting it is usual to quote the relevant part of the text with enough context to avoid misunderstanding.
I deliberately didn't include "THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND DATE OF BIRTH" because it was not relevant and wasn't needed for context. The part I originally quoted was lacking either a full word or two letters and a punctuation mark. Your continued ignorance of such combined with other basic English language errors does nothing to strengthen a positive image of either yourself or the offer you are advertising.
I will decline your offer to quote examples of your evasiveness or ineptitude in answering questions as I have no desire to "Sir Bruce" my way through this. However it is fair to say that the ineptitude probably manifests itself most through the fact that most of your answers raise more questions than the number of questions that it in and of itself answer. Your evasiveness is primarily in the form of "hand waving" issues to the side. You have launched this service yet have not invested any time in actually seeking to establish a basis upon which it can operate.
As for the excuse that full answers "will require me to go over the character limit allowed in these forums" that is no excuse at all. You can post again a whole 2 minutes after your previous post so should you need to go into more depth than a single post would allow the time it would take to create and write the second post would, or at least should, be greater than the 2 minute barrier establishes.
As for the length of the posts themselves, this post, including the formatting, still leaves more than 1000 characters to play with. That's a lot of characters.
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TheBankOfEve
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Posted - 2010.08.08 22:56:00 -
[64]
Edited by: TheBankOfEve on 08/08/2010 22:57:26
Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma
I will decline your offer to quote examples of your evasiveness or ineptitude in answering questions as I have no desire to "Sir Bruce" my way through this. However it is fair to say that the ineptitude probably manifests itself most through the fact that most of your answers raise more questions than the number of questions that it in and of itself answer. Your evasiveness is primarily in the form of "hand waving" issues to the side. You have launched this service yet have not invested any time in actually seeking to establish a basis upon which it can operate.
As I've said any questions you feel weren't properly addressed I will answer if you make them known to me. And as for character limit I'd rather not post 2-3 posts in a row when I can sum them up in one clean well presented page on the website. This would also benefit anyone else who views the site and not just those here on the forums. Should I explain that for the THIRD (3rd) time now, more information will be published to the site for everyones greater good. It's been identified that there wasn't enough and isn't enough information available and that the general eve community would like more information made available.
This post wasn't started to argue over punctuation or grammar. It was clearly started to let the general eve public know that the bank exists and to hear advice or questions.
Anyone else without advice or constructive criticism?
Besides my job requires me to be able to work with numbers and decimal points, not grammar and punctuation marks.
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Investigator Spruillo
Gallente Spruillo Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.08 23:16:00 -
[65]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Ray McCormack;
The details of my life are quite inconsequential.... Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a 15-year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize; he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament... My childhood was typical: summers in Rangoon... luge lessons... In the spring, we'd make meat helmets... When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds ù pretty standard, really. At the age of 12, I received my first scribe. At the age of 14, a Zoroastrian named Vilmer ritualistically shaved my *********. There really is nothing like a shorn ******* ù it's breathtaking... I suggest you try it.
The only conditions I would trust a bank-like institution in Eve is if it was backed by CCP, just as assets held by real banks are generally secured by powers greater than themselves. (ie. FDIC)
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.08 23:35:00 -
[66]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve This would also benefit anyone else who views the site and not just those here on the forums.
More people view the forums than view your website, but it's a false dichotomy really - no one is preventing you from posting information both at the site and on the forums. It might even be a nice idea to first post it on the forums, see what feedback you get, and then post it (adjusted) on the site.
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Besides my job requires me to be able to work with numbers and decimal points, not grammar and punctuation marks.
Perhaps you should hire someone who is used to working with grammar and punctuation marks. I'm available, just shoot me an evemail to discuss my remuneration (no profit-sharing, thanks).
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.08 23:50:00 -
[67]
Originally by: cosmoray Questions/comments:
1. The customers have to trust the people running it that they won't steal or lose their money
2. The customer have to have good access to their funds. Whatever issues there are with EBANK their website and customer transactions were very good.
3. The bank has to be profitable. What if in your scenario you make money from withdrawal fees and lots of people put funds in and don't remove it. You will be wiped out in a hurry.
4. Loans only work if you take 105%+ collateral to guarantee bank isn't scammed.
5. Why would someone come to your unknown bank for a loan when they can go to well known players for collateral backed loans that have a higher degree of trust than they do with you.
6. Why should players trust you being so new.
7. Do you know who your competitors for loans are? Do you know the rates they charge? Amount of collateral needed? Their cost of capital?
You could start by answering some of my comments at least the bottoms ones about loan rates, competition etc..
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Norah Sin
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Posted - 2010.08.08 23:57:00 -
[68]
so being in the army make someone more trustworthy?
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SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Norah Sin so being in the army make someone more trustworthy?
Apparently. There was a similar thread around 2 weeks ago too...
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:31:00 -
[70]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma
Originally by: TheBankOfEve I could care less about
So close..... If you were what you professed to be you wouldn't have used that.
This is not a legitimate offering in any way shape or form. Great, you got the ISD interested and will, possibly, gain good coverage/investment from that. So far you have singularly failed in providing anything of any substance to reassure those with whom you seek a financial relationship. Your answers have been inept and evasive.
BAWW.
Plus it's I couldn't care less. Could you or could you not care less [/grammar n*zi]
And about bragging about accounts, that's what the scammers do to gain trust. You might not say that you'll brag but even if you were legit, you would to show that this is a popular service, in order to get more deposits. Herd mentality. When the deposits hit critical mass, then scammers take the money and run :-/
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Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:07:00 -
[71]
hahah this is a post about Banks in Eve. That's funny.
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Voddick
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:20:00 -
[72]
For what itÆs worth, the EVE forums--and all game / fun related sites-- are blocked from USAF networks. So how this guy is able to post from workàon a Sunday when Finance is closed, is a mystery for the ages.
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:14:00 -
[73]
What could possibly go wrong? I'm investing big-time!
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.08.09 03:44:00 -
[74]
why are people actually responding seriously? Some random guy who has a bunch of new alts, no posting history, no real plan, and wants your isk because he's in the military and therefore trustworthy? seriously? :P
One thing I've definitely noticed re: leading a bank in eve, the people who would actually be good at it have no desire to DO it. Tons of people on this forum could start a bank if they wanted. But there is no legitimate desire to do so imo. Those who have the understanding required to make money effectively will make plenty of it for themselves without needing to pay others. A bond for a few months to kick start things? Sure. A bank? not so much.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.08.09 03:44:00 -
[75]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Hexxx from EBANK himself has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE.
Hexxx and I talk almost daily about anything and pretty much everything, he hasn't mentioned a new Bank to me so yeah... Careful, Hexxx has an active account and if he wanted to give an endorsement, coming from his mouth is much more creditable. Trust me when I say I will talk to him about it.
Amarr for Life |
Ros Anar
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Posted - 2010.08.09 06:04:00 -
[76]
Sent you a message in game, I've been COO of an active corp/bank in another MMO for most of a year and I'd be glad to offer advice/help out with some things. One of our more recent(and profitable :P) projects: http://erx.erepublik.ws/
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Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.08.09 06:12:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Scott McClellan on 09/08/2010 06:15:09
Quote: One thing disappointing here is that I'm seeing allot of critics and not a single post with suggestions on how we can improve The Bank of Eve.
Well, to fully understand why an Eve bank is not particularly necessary, lets look at the driving impetus behind banks in the first place.
1. Convenient storage: Banks provide a place to keep too-large-to-be-practical amounts of money, guaranteed by the federal government (in the United States at least.) It's not particularly convenient to carry the cash value of one's checking account around in physical currency. I personally prefer to just debit my purchases and not carry cash at all, and a bank lets me do this.
2. Denied access save for the bank and yourself. If you have your cash in a mattress, or carry it on your person, it can be stolen! Someone can deck you, grab your wallet and run off.
Both of these problems do not exist in Eve. Your wallet can hold an infinite amount (for all intents and purposes) of ISK, all transfers are already electronic, and it can NOT be taken unless you explicitly authorize a transfer.
It is therefore infinitely safer to hold your money than to lodge it with someone else for the purposes of safekeeping, especially someone who has come around very recently, and has not proven their ability to hold and repay public money.
Also, the aforementioned issues with banks not generating any profit tends to wind them up in major debt. There's significantly more financial instruments and accountability available to banks in the real world that make them a viable (and successful... mostly) business.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.09 09:58:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Anyone else without advice or constructive criticism?
Yes. Whether you are going to scam or not, your approach with other people in general and with MD forum in particular must be much more better shaped than this.
You are drilling an open wound (ie EvE banking so far is a big delusion) instead of softly stitching it with careful approach.
If you EVER want to hope to keep your bank running you must be able to positively (despite the hostility, it IS made to put you on a trial) answer at least the following people (list is not exhaustive):
- Cosmoray because he got the knack to spot oddities most of the times. - Estel Arador, he's master at nitpicking, if you "pass" him, you are almost golden. - Hexx, he should actually back you up due to your claims. If not, you can as well close shop now. - Ray McCormack because he's in your same shoes, his ones are just larger and with more holes. - Me if I decided to bother with your bank (unlikely for now) and dissect it with some audit maybe.
Also beware of guys like Raw23 and Ji Sama. They can do things to unwary minds - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.09 11:05:00 -
[79]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Hexxx from EBANK himself has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE.
Hexxx and I talk almost daily about anything and pretty much everything, he hasn't mentioned a new Bank to me so yeah... Careful, Hexxx has an active account and if he wanted to give an endorsement, coming from his mouth is much more creditable. Trust me when I say I will talk to him about it.
They sent me an eve mail, I replied, but never heard back. All I said was essentially..."Yes, let's talk. Here's how to reach me." I was provided a phone number to text but that's not how I do things.
That said...I very rarely endorse anything.
Projects Blog |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.09 12:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
I'll post a link to a picture of me in uniform and then you can look up the public ICCAN record for the .com owner of thebankofeve.com that way you can see that my nametape matches the public record of ownership for the site and see that I am military and that the picture actually matches the record.
And in terms of investment, I'm investing my credibility and ISK. My credibility is at stake because again, you can look up the ICCAN registry and see my full name and probably address. Everyone else has invested ISK upwards of 2 Billion total to cover loans and any losses on loans.
<Google mode> Did you mean ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers)? </Google mode>
And while we're at it: What's this linkfire.us ("Coming soon"), referenced in thebankofeve.com and which is registered to the same person as thebankofeve.com? -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
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Efraya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.09 14:29:00 -
[81]
Naturally like everyone else here @ M.D. obvious scam is obvious.
IF, in the unlikely event that you are for real. The platform from which you are running your website is woefully insecure and a child could cause you considerable headache.
If your army/finance carrier is true, then I think you might want to check over your systems a little more thoroughly.
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0hai
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Posted - 2010.08.09 14:32:00 -
[82]
Edited by: 0hai on 09/08/2010 14:32:34 Anon alt here, was wondering If I could get onto board of directors. I took consumers math in high school.
Originally by: Gladys Pank My erections will stand proud forever.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.09 16:25:00 -
[83]
So has the OP ran off without answering any more questions??
Or answer some of the questions he has been asked??
Or has he just given up?
For someone in the Army I would expect grit and determination to see a plan to the finish, not someone who back away from a challenge.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.09 16:31:00 -
[84]
Originally by: cosmoray So has the OP ran off without answering any more questions??
Or answer some of the questions he has been asked??
Or has he just given up?
He could be discouraged that Hexxx didn't back him up
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: TheBankOfEve Hexxx from EBANK himself has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE.
They sent me an eve mail, I replied, but never heard back.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.09 18:02:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Kalanar I've started an account with 500,000 isk
Originally by: Cista2 I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
It's been 24 hours since those posts were made, but so far the statistics page doesn't show any new accounts having been created. It still says the same as it did yesterday
TOTAL ASSETS ACCOUNTS LOANS $606,896,546.00 2 0
It's a bit weird since the page specifically says "No fancy page here, just raw data.". What's the de facto standard for raw data reporting these days? Automatic updates every hour?
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Ford Chicago
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.08.09 18:05:00 -
[86]
The primary concern is that your business model is flawed. Unless you create loans that generate a higher interest rate than what you are paying to depositors your bank will be insolvent. Additionally, unless those loans are secured against assets, those loans have an exceptionally high risk of default.
You have shown no ability to generate said loans, and thus no means to pay the interest on any account.
If I deposited 1B in a Savings account in your bank, you would be obligated to pay me 30M in interest each month. If only using bank fees, that would require 120 feed Savings account withdrawals over the same period, just to remain revenue neutral. That is highly unlikely and entirely unsustainable.
I don't care if you are or are not in the military, nor if your purported supporters have financial responsibilities in same. It is clear to me that you have, at best, a high-school education, as you cannot distinguish between or correctly use simple words like their/they're.
If you don't know how to use a contraction, why would I trust you with a financial plan and the ability to calculate and articulate risk and return?
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Hell's Librarians Imperium Directive
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Posted - 2010.08.09 19:33:00 -
[87]
Since this thread appears to be headed toward oblivion, I assume it's not a problem if I go off on a slight tangent/derail:
Several people mentioned that they do not care about the RL of someone running one of these banks. While it did seem the OP spent an inordinate amount of time/effort discussing the super-secret nature of his current assignment as well as his military service...those issues are not relevant.
But, to say that RL is not relevant at all seems like a bit of an overstatement. My recollection is that part of the dbank failure was due, in part to some programming knowledge shortcomings.
Also, most on-going 3d party tools/services fall into the trap of RL vs Game prioritization. Knowing how much time the dev/mgr has to devote to the project is relevant. That said, it is impossible to know how those priorities will shift in a month, 6 months or a year.
IMO, people who enjoy playing the game get the idea to create a service that they believe the game could use. Talking to some 3d party devs, as well as CCP devs I have found that there is rarely a balance between playing the game and working on their project. A lot of them have to choose between the two. Optimistically they hope for an 80/20 split. Either way, one is sacrificed for the other and suffers for it.
Both applications and services can and have been handed-off to "new blood" with mixed success when the manager or dev gets tired or bored with the project, or RL overtakes the game.
TL;DR: IMO real life matters when trying to evaluate a project...but not the way the OP thought.
KB
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.09 19:41:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Estel Arador
It's been 24 hours since those posts were made, but so far the statistics page doesn't show any new accounts having been created.
My account is "live" - I can access it on the webpage and it says I have deposited 1 mil isk. I am happy panda! ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.09 23:32:00 -
[89]
Further question for the OP: what is the nature of the connection between thebankofeve.com and gamerswarchest.com, if any?
á á
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.09 23:57:00 -
[90]
Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:12:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
I've always been amused by how easy/hard it is to get ISD to report on an entity or event, where likely=>unlikely does not match the scale of appropriate=>inappropriate. ______________________________
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:31:00 -
[92]
Why waste your time with an elaborate set up? Its just a sad attempt at trying to put your name in the history books at EVE. The past has already shown money is safer in the wallet then "freely given" for some investment opportunity; Eve Investment Bank scandal in 2006, EBANK scam in 2009 and Curzon Dax with his 2009 Christmas scam - invest in him and get his assets when he leaves but instead he just gave it all way for one big last show off. You might actually be able to scam someone out of isk faster by spamming scam-contracts in Jita or make a huge pay off by joining an alliance and working your way to the top where you might actually do something fun before ****ing everyone over disbanding alliance, stealing cap ship assets, and a war just started instead of number crunching theoretical dollars for a game like the kids from South Park. Hell, its just an elaborate way of saying it like Nelson Muntz from the Simpsons - "HA HA!" at the stupidity of the average human.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:44:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
My bet is on over 9000. (I love being clever) ______________________________
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:49:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste I've always been amused by how easy/hard it is to get ISD to report on an entity or event, where likely=>unlikely does not match the scale of appropriate=>inappropriate.
Considering the uber secret USAF connection, expect their next headline to read:
Bank maiden flight aborted or Bank crashes and burns on take off or Bank implodes from friendly fire or This bank has no wings or Bank rockets into oblivion
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:59:00 -
[95]
Posting to confirm this ISD group needs to get a new hobby.
Just so I'm clear on how something becomes news:
1. Create character 2. State unoriginal idea, but that you're going to do it better(with no real information as to how you are going to accomplish this) 3. Get login screen news item 4. Profit?
For the record, I will be creating a veldspar mining business which will surpass even that of Chribba's. I can see the headline now: "Extra! Extra! Amarr Citizen to corner veldspar market in a round economy!"
/me waits for a reporter to pick the story up...
-----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****. |
SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.10 02:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 For the record, I will be creating a veldspar mining business which will surpass even that of Chribba's. I can see the headline now: "Extra! Extra! Amarr Citizen to corner veldspar market in a round economy!"
/me waits for a reporter to pick the story up...
I'll take 10b in shares and/or bonds.
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Sazumaan Johnza
Minmatar Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.10 02:54:00 -
[97]
Being a 5 year old char I've built up ISK capital over the years and have invested some of this in DBANK and EBANK.
Total invested was 2.5Bil, representing a relatively small amount of total assets. I invested on a trial basis figuring that it was better to have the isk sitting in the bank than in my wallet. A wrong assumption obviously, as I've lost this entire amount and have learnt some lessons. No doubt I'm not the only one. ;)
Am I bitter? No. All amounts were considered sunk the moment I "invested". Any "interest" received back upon retrieving funds would have been considered a bonus. However, at the time I calculated my chances of some sort of return to be higher than zero. :)
The bottom line is this: There is absolutely NO WAY you are getting my ISK. Why? Because you haven't said anything of substance that would give me even the smallest amount of confidence in your venture, at all, whatsoever.
Make no mistake, with the previous banking failures you have A LOT to live up to.
And you will be watched every step of the way. The hundreds of EVE players that lost ISK from previous so called "banks" will make sure of that.
This is 100% scam in my books, anyone thinking of "investing", be warned.
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Machete Visor
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Posted - 2010.08.10 03:11:00 -
[98]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: TheBankOfEve All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
The people running Enron were in a position of trust in a large company. Look how well that turned out.
Enron was run without any real auditing by any major branch of the federal government. EBANK suffered the same effect of being allowed to run without real audits preformed by anyone with knowledge of the banking or financial industry.
I think you are very young. (<30). Enron was audited by a Big 5 accounting firm, with the best reputation in the business. Their federal conviction was thrown out on appeal and they would still be in business today if not for politics.
Anyway, i think banking in eve is a really bad idea. Any uncollateralized superconglomeration of ISK in eve is a bad idea.
If you wanted to really start this up, you would put backing for all deposits with a trusted player (in the form of plex). BTW - that is how real banks earn their trust. They are backed with a reserve system and the FDIC funds.
No one banks based on good intentions or reputation alone. That is silly.
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Deltronious
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.10 03:40:00 -
[99]
Bottom line is this: Until CCP implements some way of legitimizing an eve-bank and making it secure without just trusting you with our money the only people you're going to get to invest in your bank are the naive or stupid. I'm saying nothing about your RL trustworthiness as TBH it has nothing to do with it. Money given to your bank is literally just that - GIVEN. No guarantee it will ever come back. I would probably "invest" a token amount - 5 mil or something and just see how good you are at returning the interest on it for a year or something before trusting you with any larger amount. By that time you've probably given up on the huge time involvement in managing such measly amounts for such a small return that you say to yourself (even if your intentions are honest at this point) "ahh what the hell its a game, I'm just going to take the money and run." - As would I. Dammit I've just spoiled my chances of ever opening an eve-bank of my own.
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Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering Needless Friends
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Posted - 2010.08.10 04:13:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Deltronious Bottom line is this: Until CCP implements some way of legitimizing an eve-bank and making it secure without just trusting you with our money the only people you're going to get to invest in your bank are the naive or stupid.
And you think a RL bank is more secure - you sir are the naive one.
Im opening an account today, need something to place my liquid assets.
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Osihiru
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Posted - 2010.08.10 04:37:00 -
[101]
Hi.
Just as a note. I looked at your website and noticed one major thing missing that is posted on all major banking sites in the world. Well, reputable ones. A prospectus. It outlines the funds held, the quarterly profits, the outstanding loans, the expected dividends, if any, and other such various stuff, in one report, so that investors can make an informed decision. It shows what the company is comprised of in ways that are beneficial to the reader. They are often long and arduous, but a must if you want people to look into them. They are required for all current shareholders.
I work for a major worldwide money management firm, and deal with this all the time. You might consider looking at functioning large banks and see what they do for their shareholders. This will give you some footholds on your growing bank. Posting up to date financial information is key to a success. It is not easy to run a bank, so I applaud you on your endeavor.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:21:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank, my statement was a purely suggestive way of what's needed for any bank or public service in order for from my view be able to bulid a steady base.
/c
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:27:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank, my statement was a purely suggestive way of what's needed for any bank or public service in order for from my view be able to bulid a steady base.
/c
Although I assumed this to be the case, the reporter sure did a great job of making it look like you endorsed this or advised in some way.
-----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:33:00 -
[104]
We must protect the public! To the MDmobile.
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Stalking Mantis
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:37:00 -
[105]
Dear Sir, Allow me to introduce myself. I am a corporate banker in real life specialized in the field of Corporate Finance, Project Finance, Structured Finance and Syndicated lending. While I admire the attempt and I am tempted to open an account I see to many holes in this model of a bank (at least from my banking experience. While I am not here to criticize for the sake of criticism I would like to point out a few key elements that need to be taken into consideration:
1-While liquid cash is very important to allow a bank to provide loans to consumers one must bear in mind that if the depositors that you have obligated yourself to pay out a fixed set of interest exceed your borrowing base then you will be forced to pay out of your banks funds to the depositors in order to honor your checking/saving accounts obligations regardless of your ability to generate profit in any said month.
2-In light of the above I have viewed the interest rates you have put up for your checking/savings accounts and when you factor in that you have set a monthly profit for your shareholders bear in mind that these shareholders will also want their profit regardless of your ability to generate profit through loaning in any given month
3-In the case of your lending activities not generating enough profit to cover your obligations to both the depositors and the shareholders what is your business plan?
4-I also noticed a serious lack of set interest rates on your loans and given the monthly obligations I mentioned above do you know what is the minimum interest you need to charge on your loans in order to meet your monthly obligations?
5-Banks rarely find a customer that can provide full collateral to a loan and if they do they expect very low interest rates have these interest rates been factored into 4 above?
6-If you have a lack of customers able to provide full collateral what plans do you have to reduce you lending risk?
7-When such a lack of fully collateralized customers becomes a factor (and it is only a matter time until that happens) how will you negate the risk of default on your liquidity while bearing in mind your obligations in 1 and 2 above?
While I am not mentioning the above to provide ammunition for anyone doubting you I am providing it as something one needs to consider as the basics of basics of banking and this coming from a career banker please accept these simple questions from banker.
[/url] |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:37:00 -
[106]
All it takes is lots of noobs opening accounts with 5M ISK for it to add up.
At the log in screen people see Chribba endorses a bank (I know he didn't, but!), so they throw a few ISk for the lol's. They get to say I invested in Chribba's bank.
I bet the bank is already sitting on multi B's in ISK.
A crappy situation made a 100 times worse because ISD doesn't bother to check their facts before posting.
The OP has already disappeared from the forum. He may of had grand ideas but once he got nailed for the silly idea it was easier to just steal the money.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:43:00 -
[107]
I INVESTED IN CHRIBBABANK; AND NOW IM BORKE! OMG1ONE1ONE1ONE1ELEVEL11!EXCLAMATION!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:51:00 -
[108]
Quote:
And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank, my statement was a purely suggestive way of what's needed for any bank or public service in order for from my view be able to bulid a steady base.
Now, imagine if you started your bank. I am sure tons of people would trust you.
I can see why you won't be eager to start such a venture though. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.10 06:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: cosmoray
A crappy situation made a 100 times worse because ISD doesn't bother to check their facts before posting.
Indeed. The report makes it sound like they have 10 billion isk in capital rather than 2 bil. Surely only a pedant would complain about their figures being wrong by a factor of five!
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.10 06:16:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Originally by: Chribba And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank [...].
Although I assumed this to be the case, the reporter sure did a great job of making it look like you endorsed this or advised in some way.
Aye, that is such a twisting of Chribba's meaning that one wonders if the reporter might be on the take. FBANK... EBANK... DBANK... CBANK, where ISD would, mistakenly, have the C stand for "Chribba Approved". á á
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Stalking Mantis
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.08.10 07:13:00 -
[111]
ISD should modify the news lead as ISD reputation is now on the line.
Speaking of reputations I was for a brief moment considering investing as a shareholder but then again the 1-lack of any solid answers by the OP to questions raised and 2-what seemed like a prolonged argument about the RL credentials of a USAF employee (yes I say employee not officer) had all the tell tale signs of a fail (even of not by intention but by sheer lack of USAF employee experience in banking).
ItÆs a great idea, would love to see banking in Eve work. But then again much has been said to this point already.
[/url] |
SunGod RA
Endless Destruction
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Posted - 2010.08.10 07:47:00 -
[112]
hey
*a battle rages in the background*
hey
*the sound of metal clashing, guttural noises*
hey
*the thick fog takes on a reddish hue*
hey
*as the coppery smell of blood permeates the air*
HEY
*i have fought long and hard but alas*
HEY
*i cannot, will not*
HEY
*surrender, TO MY LAST BREAF I WILL FIGHT THE URGE TO SHIPTOack*
hey i have 17mil can i help?
(o-o-o-o-obligatory)
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 09:36:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
My bet is on over 9000. (I love being clever)
Are you betting over 9000 or are you betting ON over 9000?
The latter is kind of a safe bet seeing as Cista already plopped in a mil, and I put in 0.01 ISK, bringing the total up to over 9000.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.10 09:41:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Thoraemond Further question for the OP: what is the nature of the connection between thebankofeve.com and gamerswarchest.com, if any?
Good catch. With the linkfire.us and this one, to an ouside observer dealing with this stuff in RL, this looks more like a (RL) link farming venture than an attempt at an EVE bank. The one guide listed in the "Guides" section of that warchest thingy is clearly no EVE guide ... -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:03:00 -
[115]
LMAO Julius, EPIC find :)
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:07:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Edit 2: Oh hey, look what I found!
Lolwut I already haz dividends?! Sorry you guys all missed the boat. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:10:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Edit 2: Oh hey, look what I found!
Lolwut I already haz dividends?! Sorry you guys all missed the boat.
And I can only guess that the deposit checker truncates decimals, because my 0.1 ISK was never entered into my account (which you can freely view here, by the way).
Also, the master account is viewable here: http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/
I was half hoping to find a directory listing there, showing all the .php files...
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Jeeta Ho
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:21:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Jeeta Ho on 10/08/2010 11:24:31
Best laugh I've had in weeks -- noobs piddling away their ISK at "banks" -- and since folks with more ISK than brains are so eager let me throw this fond memory at y'all, just for "ol' times sake":
MADOFF
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:46:00 -
[119]
Wow! Sometimes MD does a really good job!
Nice finds Julius et al!
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:50:00 -
[120]
As a service to anyone following the link from the news item, I've used my early post (4th reply in the thread) to give a summary of this thread:
Quote:
Since this thread is now linked from the news item and I thought I'd use this post to summarise some of the objections brought up in this thread.
- The website is NOT SECURE. Despite claiming "safe, secure banking", TheBankOfEve has made no effort at all at securing their website. ACCOUNT INFO OF ANY ACCOUNT HOLDER CAN BE VIEWED BY ANYONE (I can't stress that enough), which obviously is a problem. It is likely that the site lacks basic security measures, and perhaps might be vulnerably to malicious attacks.
- No research has been done. TheBankOfEve has shown that no attention at all has been paid to the hurdles previous banks have encountered, and no thought has been given to the reason why all banks have ultimately failed. At one point TheBankOfEve referred to DBANK as if it was still operating (while in fact it had a critical website failure followed by the manager making off with the money one year ago.)
- The business plan of TheBankOfEve is not viable. - From what we've been able to gather, the business plan is very sketchy and not very well thought out. The bank aims to make enough isk to cover the interest by withdrawal fees and partially collateralised loans. Experiences of MD regulars have shown that partially collateralised loans will eventually result in a loss, which is the reason why the industry standard is to require at least 105% collateral. Furthermore, it is expected that the withdrawal fees won't bring in any significant isk; many people will put their isk in the bank and let it accrue interest, making only one or two withdrawals before closing their account many months later. Instead of discussing his business, TheBankOfEve has claimed to be in a position of trust in real life, which is irrelevant as a position of trust in real life (if that's true, it could easily be faked) does not mean one can run a complicated business like a bank in EVE.
- TheBankOfEve has made false claims on who is involved. The claim that respected community member Hexxx (one of the founders of EBANK) "has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE" has been denied by Hexxx himself: he offered to give advice, but was not contacted since.
- Many characters involved in TheBankOfEve are less than two months old. None had any public dealings before launching this bank. The might easily be run by one person using extended trial accounts (so it costs nothing).
These are the major concerns brought up in this thread. Several smaller ones have been brought up, but I'll leave it to the interested reader to find them.
As an aside, the consensus seems to be that ISD has been reckless and utterly stupid by reporting the launch of The Bank Of Eve as it did. A completely new player with a scrappy - almost non-existent - business plan gets credulously promoted as the up and coming bank without any hard questions being asked, and worse, general quotes from well-known and very respected EVE players get distorted as if they've endorsed this specific new bank.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
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Graic Valente
Gallente Valente Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:52:00 -
[121]
Oh dear.
Should have used the next letter in the chain. FBank. Fail Bank.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:55:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Graic Valente Oh dear.
Should have used the next letter in the chain. FBank. Fail Bank.
Taken by Fury Bank. I believe we were counting down the alphabet, in order of launch:
F[ury] Bank E[ve] Bank D[ynasty] Bank
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Graic Valente
Gallente Valente Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:57:00 -
[123]
Ah! My bad. Crap Bank then.
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SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:58:00 -
[124]
And the MD Elites viciously attack another budding businessman in their avaricious quest to dominate all aspects of Eve finance; so fearful of healthy competition that they are willing to slander and verbally abuse anyone.
How sad.
I will invest 20b in this brave and selfless effort to bring much needed banking services to the average pilot of New Eden, whom until now has suffered under the yoke of an evil financial cabal.
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:03:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 10/08/2010 12:05:47 But on a more serious note, TheB, where's my money? I sent it to your character but it didn't show up in my account.
Originally by: SetrakDark I will invest 20b in this brave and selfless effort to bring much needed banking services to the average pilot of New Eden, whom until now has suffered under the yoke of an evil financial cabal.
I'll believe it when I see the money on your account page (which will be located here: http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/setrakdark.php).
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:14:00 -
[126]
I am not sure I understand what is the problem you guys see with security on the website? The accounts are on the internet, yes, but the website is not used for transfer of isk. Afaik you only log in to check your balance.
Same as with Hydra really, anyone can find those accounts as well. That's not a problem for us.
I find that the lack of a viable business plan is the main problem with this bank, and there's no need to pick at other details. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:20:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Cista2 I am not sure I understand what is the problem you guys see with security on the website? The accounts are on the internet, yes, but the website is not used for transfer of isk. Afaik you only log in to check your balance.
Two things:
1) What if I don't want anyone to know my balance? Nowhere does the bank mention that my balance will be made public, in fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that a bank will make an effort to keep all clients' balances confidential.
2) With at least one other bank a website failure was the trigger for the entire bank failing (/scamming). This website doesn't look like a lot of thought went into it (and into securing it).
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:33:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Graic Valente Oh dear.
Should have used the next letter in the chain. FBank. Fail Bank.
Taken by Fury Bank. I believe we were counting down the alphabet, in order of launch:
F[ury] Bank E[ve] Bank D[ynasty] Bank
Becomes obvious that the next bank is C[hribba] Bank
Store |
Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:43:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Cista2 I am not sure I understand what is the problem you guys see with security on the website?
Who said anything about a problem? In fact, who said anything about security? I just wanted to point out that you can "log in" to anyone's account by simply typing their character name. For all I know this is working as intended.
It's not a "problem" as much as it is common sense. When you open a bank account you expect that people can't just walk up to the teller and ask for your account balance without even providing your PIN.
Also, I put in a withdraw request, so if you get 100 000 of your ISK sent back by tomorrow, don't worry, it just means TheB is checking all the PINs manually for each transaction and he didn't notice that I typed the wrong PIN. Or maybe I typed the right PIN, it's a 1 in ten thousand possibility.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:46:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Estel Arador Nowhere does the bank mention that my balance will be made public, in fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that a bank will make an effort to keep all clients' balances confidential.
This is an interesting point you are making. If anyone remembers Davramm's investment fund from December 2009, this was a very succesful fund which was given the full frontal treatment of MD hatred for about a month and then closed. One of the main accusation was that investments were anonymous, so the MD elite did not know who had invested. In my own investment fund (Hydra) I have published who the investors are, but not how much each investor has in the fund. However, any of the investors can see all the other accounts.
I am interested in knowing what MD thinks of the issue of anonymous and secret accounts. Is it a given as Estel says that accounts must be secret in an operating bank? The reason I am asking is also that Hydra is already functioning as a bank essentially, since investors can deposit and withdraw from their accounts at leisure.
----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 12:59:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Estel Arador Nowhere does the bank mention that my balance will be made public, in fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that a bank will make an effort to keep all clients' balances confidential.
This is an interesting point you are making. If anyone remembers Davramm's investment fund from December 2009, this was a very succesful fund which was given the full frontal treatment of MD hatred for about a month and then closed. One of the main accusation was that investments were anonymous, so the MD elite did not know who had invested. In my own investment fund (Hydra) I have published who the investors are, but not how much each investor has in the fund. However, any of the investors can see all the other accounts.
I am interested in knowing what MD thinks of the issue of anonymous and secret accounts. Is it a given as Estel says that accounts must be secret in an operating bank? The reason I am asking is also that Hydra is already functioning as a bank essentially, since investors can deposit and withdraw from their accounts at leisure.
Exactly, in normal conditions of a business that operates as a "bank" you shouldn't be able to see the sums of other people's investments unless they wish to show you.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.10 13:13:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 10/08/2010 13:14:01
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Estel Arador Nowhere does the bank mention that my balance will be made public, in fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that a bank will make an effort to keep all clients' balances confidential.
This is an interesting point you are making. If anyone remembers Davramm's investment fund from December 2009, this was a very succesful fund which was given the full frontal treatment of MD hatred for about a month and then closed. One of the main accusation was that investments were anonymous, so the MD elite did not know who had invested. In my own investment fund (Hydra) I have published who the investors are, but not how much each investor has in the fund. However, any of the investors can see all the other accounts.
I am interested in knowing what MD thinks of the issue of anonymous and secret accounts. Is it a given as Estel says that accounts must be secret in an operating bank? The reason I am asking is also that Hydra is already functioning as a bank essentially, since investors can deposit and withdraw from their accounts at leisure.
There's a difference between IPOs/bonds looking for a set amount of isk and banks handling whatever isk they get (preferably up to a manageable maximum).
An IPO/bond looks to gather an exact amount of isk for a specific purpose. Ideally, that amount of isk is supported by research/goals. If the isk amount is not fully raised, the IPO/bond will not be able to reach it goals; whereas more would be raised, the risk/reward ratio might change (usually to the detriment of investors). Therefore I argue that any initial investments in IPO/bonds should be declared publicly; I've written a bit on that earlier today here. (Trading existing shares does not have to happen publicly, as the trade between two characters does not change the amount invested in the company.)
Banks on the other hand are not looking for a set amount of isk, but are providing a service. The amount of isk the bank handles changes daily, and all the bank has to do is ensure it makes enough money to cover interest, salaries and any promised dividends. Handling varying amounts of isk would be taken into account in a bank's business plan, so it should not change the expected profits or the risk/reward ratio (up to a certain point, which is why I mentioned "up to a manageable maximum" earlier). The bank should report how much total isk it is managing, but whose isk that is exactly is not very important.
Another difference between IPO/bonds and banks is that people generally invest only part of their wealth in IPO/bonds, whereas (too) trusting persons might put a large part of their wealth into a checking account.
I hope it is now clear why I expect IPO/bonds to have public investments and why banks should be confidential about any account holders.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.10 13:26:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Estel Arador Banks on the other hand are not looking for a set amount of isk, but are providing a service. The amount of isk the bank handles changes daily, and all the bank has to do is ensure it makes enough money to cover interest, salaries and any promised dividends.
But here is the problem in Eve right? Because a bank in Eve cannot thrive exclusively on loaning out isk. A bank in Eve needs a hard business plan that provides isk to pay interest on the accounts, and that business plan must be investments *outside* the bank itself. Hydra gets its profits from trading bpos. Ebank got their profit from lol investments, and this new bank is incriminated because it does not have a business plan involved trade or investments.
In that sense, while I acknowledge your argument, there is typically more similarity/overlap between a bank business in Eve and an ipo in Eve. Put in another way, a bank in Eve should be defined by the service it provides (account types), and not so much by which other activities the bank is involved in, or whether accounts are public or not. What do you think? ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.10 14:10:00 -
[134]
Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2010 14:13:54
Originally by: Cista2 This is an interesting point you are making. If anyone remembers Davramm's investment fund from December 2009, this presented itself as a very succesful fund (but refused to provide anything at all to support those claims) which was given the full frontal treatment of MD hatred for about a month and then closed.
Fixed that for you
Link: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1222097&page=1
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.10 14:18:00 -
[135]
Originally by: RAW23 Fixed that for you
By succesful I meant only that those that invested got phat profitz, it is not my goal to further endorse the fund, its methods or the person behind it My reason for mentioning it was the debate on anonymous investments. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.10 15:13:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 10/08/2010 15:13:55
Originally by: Cista2 I am not sure I understand what is the problem you guys see with security on the website? The accounts are on the internet, yes, but the website is not used for transfer of isk. Afaik you only log in to check your balance.
As pointed out already, the general assumption seems to be that any "bank" will not keep my accounts open to the public. Besides this obvious reason, if I can just type my or your name in there, why bother with a login? Checking accounts can be done without already.
Assuming it was not the intention to show off all accounts to the public (which the login seems to be hinting at), such a very basic and obvious oversight of common security coding paradigms will most likely not be the only (coding) faults. People with more experience in intrusion checks might well be able to find a similar security hole in this website as it was found in DBank's site. And we all know the outcome of this. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.10 15:18:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Cista2 In that sense, while I acknowledge your argument, there is typically more similarity/overlap between a bank business in Eve and an ipo in Eve.
I disagree, there are many differences between IPOs and banks (to name just a few: fixed investments vs fluid isk; equity vs service; 'working' the isk vs 'investing' the isk).
As for what a bank could/should do to make isk exactly, I won't comment on that.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Kimbeau Surveryor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.10 15:27:00 -
[138]
Please please please, can I borrow all your money?
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F90OEX
F9X WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.08.10 17:19:00 -
[139]
Don't know whats more funny the OP or the people who have posted in this thread that have been involved in past Banks that have failed.
An Eve bank is a great idea on paper but like many things in Eve, that's where it should be left.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.11 08:38:00 -
[140]
Last response from OP three days ago?!?
How does that meme go ...
1. Announce new EVE bank 2. Let ISD write a news article about it. 3. ??? 4. Profit! -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.11 09:17:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
2. Let ISD write a news article about it.
The point seems to be, now ISD can write news articles about another great Eve Bank scam! (which they nurtured themselves) ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.11 10:47:00 -
[142]
Quote: Let ISD write a news article about it.
First of all ISD != From Interstellar Correspondents. In this case Interstellar Correspondents might have made a mistake but this not apply to ISD as a whole, as it includes other divisions.
Secondly, they report on things happening inside the eve universe and as much as we know, they have *no liason* with the events they are reporting.
Are the previous posts implying they are not neutral to events? Are they implying the news are biased for stupidity or profit or both?
Becouse, in this case case I cannot understand why people emo-rage about a kestrel with 74 plexes or about the lag and do not threadnought IC enough.
Evidently, capsuleers consider IC alternatively as a cheap promotion mean and a good scapegoat. I believe capsuleers think like this:
> IC are good when they cover *my* point of view in a way that *it generates advertisement or profit* to me and me alone or "generate shame or less profit* to someone i do not like.
> IC are instead very bad when they cover the point of view of *someone i do not like* in a way that *might increase his/her business* or in a way that might shame me.
Basically those who blame IC for reporting this or that event, as much as those who praise them, are only playing the "I win eve" game, on a different level than just shooting each other.
This blame/praise game is hypocrital as news are just a good mean to fuel useful discussions among players. This thread is an example of good and useful discussion fueled by news, for example.
In the present case, news reports on a *want to be* bank are irrelevant to the bank trustability. As usual, it is capsuleer's responsibility to be informed and *not to* rely just on login screen news.
I believe this bank cannot be trusted whatever IC says but i cannot blame them, as their article ultimately brought me to this thread.
/my 2 cents.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.11 10:55:00 -
[143]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro
Are the previous posts implying they are not neutral to events? Are they implying the news are biased for stupidity or profit or both?
A week or so ago there was a large fleet battle in 0.0. The servers lagged out and ended up dropping everyone after a few minutes. The IC reported, with a big article on the login screen, that the "fleet battle was interrupted by spatial distortions". When in fact the node lagged out and crashed.
Also as Chribba said in his earlier post in this thread, he didn't say anything close to what they published. So basically they are twisting the news to make it look better than it is.
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.11 10:58:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Breaker77 The IC reported, with a big article on the login screen, that the "fleet battle was interrupted by spatial distortions". When in fact the node lagged out and crashed.
You are absolutely right on that article. There is a post somewhere, however, that explained they were in carachter and thus they could not describe the lag as lag but had to invent some fancy roleplay translation.
I do not remember that article being "twisted" apart from that RP stuff. In this case, however, i read Chribba explaining he has been misrepresented. It would be nice to understand to which extent.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:30:00 -
[145]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro I do not remember that article being "twisted" apart from that RP stuff. In this case, however, i read Chribba explaining he has been misrepresented. It would be nice to understand to which extent.
I was pretty much apporached with the question "what is needed to make a bank work in eve" -
Seeing my limited knowledge on how to run a bank I instead focused on what my view of how to run any successfull public service, be it a bank, courier service or anything else. Which imo was the key points of, trust and communication.
Those views in the context of the bank article itself didn't turn out that good imo, seeing as I only had the views of public services in mind, I think my general views were applied to the focus of the article and therefor became misrepresentated.
I can only comment about the part I was quoted obviously, and I did at least not intend to forumulate my words like stated in the article as my focus was not towards the bank itself, so as far as the rest of the article being twisted or tuned to show a "better" side than described in the thread I have no idea about.
/c
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:02:00 -
[146]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro Basically those who blame IC for reporting this or that event, as much as those who praise them, are only playing the "I win eve" game, on a different level than just shooting each other.
Here's the point: just about every month some bozo posts a thread that he is launching a new bank in Eve. One week later it is usually forgotten.
That someone is claiming to launch a bank is not really an "event" and in fact, it is not newsworthy. If a bank establishes itself and assembles a catalogue of customers and x billion isk for its business, that will be newsworthy. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:42:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Cista2 Here's the point: just about every month some bozo posts a thread that he is launching a new bank in Eve. One week later it is usually forgotten.
Good point.
Likely, someone reached the correspondents and claimed that a bank had been opened and was working.
Now what do we call this? a Troll? I'd say not, becouse if the bank is open that is a fact. It is insecure but it is open. So the reporter might have had a sweetspot for MD and jumped on the article.
However, I do not see how this can be prevented. It is easy to understand that a hauler kill in Jita is not newsworthy while a kestrel loaded of 74 plexes instead is.
But how can an MD noob separate a relevant from an irrelevant news on MD? Either it has been around a lot and understood how this forum works or the reporter is as uninformed as the average lemming that jumps on unsecured IPOs.
In my opinion they cannot be blamed for being incompetent, unless they have an MD veteran in their ranks.
That is why a news is just a news, after you read it you'd better jump on MD to get deeper info.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.11 14:52:00 -
[148]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro
First of all ISD != From Interstellar Correspondents. In this case Interstellar Correspondents might have made a mistake but this not apply to ISD as a whole, as it includes other divisions.
I apologize for mixing those two entities.
Quote:
Are the previous posts implying they are not neutral to events? Are they implying the news are biased for stupidity or profit or both?
"Lack of research" (aka "stupidity" in this case). A lot of the relevant questions (which didn't get asnwered up until today) from this thread were already present, when the article appeared.
And - as Chribba explains above - quoting his answers to a generalized question in a news article aboput a specific entity makes it look as if Chribba had commented on that exact entity.
Yes, those that stop reading after "Chribba", thinking "OMG CHRIBBA SUPPORTS THIS!!!" and throwing their ISK towards this venture probably deserve their possible loss.
But I'm pretty sure IC is aware of the implied trust when mentioning Chribba's name in reference with a specific news topic.
Plus, it's "official news at the login screen". I bet a lot of players aren't aware of the fact, that these news are made by players for players, meant to be both entertaining and informative, but nonetheless are just that: a player's attempt at a news article. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.08.11 15:20:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween Plus, it's "official news at the login screen". I bet a lot of players aren't aware of the fact, that these news are made by players for players, meant to be both entertaining and informative, but nonetheless are just that: a player's attempt at a news article.
The login banner and news make it seem like it's coming from CCP. When EBANK took the ad out for the login screen ad, it received a massive flow of ISK, the banner cost a billion if I remember correctly but it received much more then that. So this guy taking a news article that simply mentions Chribba has probably proven to be very profitable.
Amarr for Life |
cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.11 15:43:00 -
[150]
Originally by: SencneS So this guy taking a news article that simply mentions Chribba has probably proven to be very profitable.
Which is quite a common schema nowadays, everyone has ever noticed T'Amber's lotteries in the news and the subsequent sprawl of lotto threads?
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Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.11 16:25:00 -
[151]
Just a quick follow up to what Julius Rigel was reporting a page or so back.
1) The master balance still seems to be showing at a little under 607M which is where it was at yesterday. So either they've not had any success through the IC news feature (\o/) or it's not an accurately reported figure of the banks total holdings.
2) Cista2 is still showing the same balance as well. Cista2, have you received the attempted withdrawl made on your behalf?
3) I've mailed Julius in-game and asked him to follow up on something else I found. No details will yet be provided and what happens next will depend on what, if anything, is discovered. Hopefully it'll be nothing serious.
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Scaldari Anitoba
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.11 17:30:00 -
[152]
Experiment.
I had 2 billion extra laying around my wallet for the last month, so I decided to invest it. If i lose it, so be it. Isk is usually lost one way or another (although i usually prefer to have mine burn up in flames (grins). Banking is a risk. Investments are a risk. I desperately want to see more banking in eve so .... On a side note, i no longer see a purchase stock option on the website so i guess i bought most of the remaining shares. Lets see if with my 20% interest in the company i can convince them to tighten up website security LOL. Regardless of outcome this should be a fun adventure!! Hope to report back good things!! #########################
Fame, or Infamy. Just depends on which side writes the history. Regardless, to be remembered is to be immortal. I wish you all Immortality. |
Induc
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.11 18:16:00 -
[153]
Sir yes sir, I'll open an account immediately seeing you are a member of the honourable and trustworthy United States Air Force.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.11 18:49:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Scaldari Anitoba Experiment.
I had 2 billion extra laying around my wallet for the last month, so I decided to invest it. If i lose it, so be it. Isk is usually lost one way or another (although i usually prefer to have mine burn up in flames (grins). Banking is a risk. Investments are a risk. I desperately want to see more banking in eve so .... On a side note, i no longer see a purchase stock option on the website so i guess i bought most of the remaining shares. Lets see if with my 20% interest in the company i can convince them to tighten up website security LOL. Regardless of outcome this should be a fun adventure!! Hope to report back good things!!
Quote: No fancy page here, just raw data.
TOTAL ASSETS ACCOUNTSLOANS $606,896,546.00 2 0
Gl, it has been like that since it opened. Apparently no new accounts have been opened.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.11 19:21:00 -
[155]
On the subject of the effect of being featured in the news, my jumpclone service has been featured twice: shortly (6 weeks) after launch and after one year of operation. Both times saw a significant increase in the number of users, which had a lasting effect thanks to word of mouth.
The first time there were about 7 users per day in the week before the news item, and 15 per day in the week after the news item. The second time there were about 13 per day in the month before the news item, and 22 per day in the month after the news item. The 1-month moving average has been above 20 ever since.
In short, being featured in the news brings a lot of attention to a business.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Bryg Philomena
Don't Taze Me Bro
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Posted - 2010.08.11 19:22:00 -
[156]
The only thing that matters here is whether Ji Sama thrusts you with 100 isk!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
Your signature |
cryojin
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.11 21:03:00 -
[157]
Interesting
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Shoot2kilI
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Posted - 2010.08.11 21:39:00 -
[158]
Firstly, please, please, PLEASE don't claim that your website is secure. Because it's not, by any wild stretch of the imagination, nor is it even standard (XHTML) compliant (not that it's overly important). Secondly, if you want to exude a warm, welcome, professional feeling, I would suggest designing a website that doesn't look like you ripped a freewebs template with an SQL backend for the API wallet update. Your site needs to look clean (I'll concede that it's clean now, but nothing else) sharp, and above all else, as you are now endorsed by CCP, (A completely different matter that I don't even want to think about) professional. You have claimed a lot of things, and dodged a lot of questions, so your credibility is about as shaky as Michael J Foxx. I would suggest a few things:
First and foremost, create a new design for your website. It needs to look professional.
Secondly, you need to create a new system for viewing account details. Maybe instead of doing the characters name, you could require a user (when they sign up) to enter their limited API. This will allow YOU to track transactions that you make with them, as well as view the status of the wallet on members who take out loans. You could then store the user id from the API into an SQL DB and, instead of entering character name, they could enter their user id from the API, or you could assign a specific TBOE ID to each User ID from the API. If people have qualms with giving you their limited API (Which would be idiotic as people have no problem with eve-sheet or EFT or EveMon) then they can find another bank.
I like the idea of a bank in Eve. I like the idea of a bank in Eve being feasible, and that honest people are genuinely interested in creating a model that would be beneficial to a lot of people, particularly the loans. That being said, this is Eve, and you've said some things, both in this thread and on your website that are plainly not true, and some other things that are very, very murky. You need to clear the air a bit, and maybe recount some of the things you've said, i.e. endorsement from hexxx. Fixing some of the things i mentioned, along with the three pages before me would be a good start. As I always tell me new recruits in Eve, we all gotta start somewhere, and I don't care if you're well known in the Eve universe. You gotta start somewhere.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
|
Posted - 2010.08.11 22:13:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Shoot2kilI Lots of great advise
Dude, I think at this point it's safe to say that there is no bank to improve on. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Shoot2kilI
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Posted - 2010.08.12 00:05:00 -
[160]
I somehow missed the 4-5 pages. Idk how. Anywho. Someone just made off with 3B. Let's all act surprised. I'll get my costume.
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Lightningshade
Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 01:12:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Shoot2kilI I somehow missed the 4-5 pages. Idk how. Anywho. Someone just made off with 3B. Let's all act surprised. I'll get my costume.
1. What's the costume? 2. Will it arouse me?
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MJ Foxx
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 04:27:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Shoot2kilI your credibility is about as shaky as Michael J Foxx.
Dude, not cool.
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 05:37:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Lucyna on 12/08/2010 05:41:25
Originally by: MJ Foxx
Originally by: Shoot2kilI your credibility is about as shaky as Michael J Foxx.
Dude, not cool.
/thread
Edit: So much more funny than when AFK Cloaker posts in a afk cloaking thread.
Also, inb4 AFK Cloaker.
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.12 06:02:00 -
[164]
Edited by: flakeys on 12/08/2010 06:03:03
Originally by: MJ Foxx
Originally by: Shoot2kilI your credibility is about as shaky as Michael J Foxx.
Dude, not cool.
Really REALLY not cool indeed.
On a sidenotte i assume we will get a rectification on the login screen saying the news was brought out badly with dubiuous quotes and that the person who set up the bank is trying to throw away his characters?I mean for sure right ....
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.12 07:20:00 -
[165]
Originally by: flakeys i assume we will get a rectification on the login screen saying the news was brought out badly with dubiuous quotes
Not going to happen. In the past, they have silently modified original articles *or* they have published follow-up pieces trying to address forum moaners.
I believe they are also monitoring the forum, and the most we can expect is someone of them posting some explanation inside the thread should it become threadnought.
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 07:33:00 -
[166]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro
Originally by: flakeys i assume we will get a rectification on the login screen saying the news was brought out badly with dubiuous quotes
Not going to happen. In the past, they have silently modified original articles *or* they have published follow-up pieces trying to address forum moaners.
I believe they are also monitoring the forum, and the most we can expect is someone of them posting some explanation inside the thread should it become threadnought.
And this is why i never read the news article when logging in.CAOD is more trustworthy wich says a LOT.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.12 10:45:00 -
[167]
I find it annoying that there's no "LULZ YOU GOT SCAMMED!!#W"!!!!!1111" post here. But maybe they are still reeking in isk. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 11:46:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 12/08/2010 11:51:24
Originally by: Cista2 But maybe they are still reeking in isk.
It seems so. The number of accounts on their statistics page has gone up to 98 today from 2 yesterday. Also it shows roughly 4 bil ISK compared to those 600+ mil yesterday.
Not counting the "experimental 2 bil" from Scaldari, that's ca. 1 additional billion they collected meanwhile.
I guess at this rate, they'll keep it running for a week or two ...
[Added] Oh, and thanks for sharing your experiences on how "login screen news" translated to customers, SencneS and Estel. Very interesting. And if this really turns out to be a scam, I guess all the lurking scammers out there will try to get into the news too, with their next "venture". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ubi Dellmar
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 14:37:00 -
[169]
I started an account with The Bank Of Eve.
After two days, my webside login still doesn't work and getting ahold of someone in game hasn't panned out...
So... Great idea folks.
But the customer service SUCKS!
Not that I'll be out a stellar fortune if this is a scam, but I'd like to see a working banking industry in EVE. Just not sure if this is going to be the one that makes it happen.
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 14:58:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar I started an account with The Bank Of Eve.
After two days, my webside login still doesn't work and getting ahold of someone in game hasn't panned out...
So... Great idea folks.
But the customer service SUCKS!
Not that I'll be out a stellar fortune if this is a scam, but I'd like to see a working banking industry in EVE. Just not sure if this is going to be the one that makes it happen.
May i ask how you got to know the bank existed?
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.12 16:44:00 -
[171]
All of the people who deposited with the idea that this would help EvE banking by making the deposit into this fledgling bank... I think it worked against you. Now more "banks" will surely pop up... and just take all the money and run.
I mean, if you like subsidizing the scammers... then I guess you are doing it right.
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.12 17:05:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Lucyna All of the people who deposited with the idea that this would help EvE banking by making the deposit into this fledgling bank... I think it worked against you. Now more "banks" will surely pop up... and just take all the money and run.
I am not so sure on this point. I believe this ^so called^ bank will scam and this will get to the news. When this happens people will be even more cautious with banking in Eve, to the point that there will be no more banks becouse no one will ever trust them.
It could even result in lower and lower partecipation to IPOs for the fear of scams.
Ultimately, this is a bad service to the community as a whole, becouse when the idea of banking in Eve ultimately dies (and die it will), the game will miss yet another sandbox element and will result poorer in content.
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Kimbeau Surveryor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.12 17:39:00 -
[173]
Perhaps the most important lesson to learn from this farrago is that CCP really should put a heading on the news column of the log-in screen, to make it clear to all and sundry (and to noobs in particular) that this is not "official" news.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.12 17:48:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Chribba I was pretty much apporached with the question "what is needed to make a bank work in eve" -
Seeing my limited knowledge on how to run a bank I instead focused on what my view of how to run any successfull public service, be it a bank, courier service or anything else. Which imo was the key points of, trust and communication.
Those views in the context of the bank article itself didn't turn out that good imo, seeing as I only had the views of public services in mind, I think my general views were applied to the focus of the article and therefor became misrepresentated.
I can only comment about the part I was quoted obviously, and I did at least not intend to forumulate my words like stated in the article as my focus was not towards the bank itself, so as far as the rest of the article being twisted or tuned to show a "better" side than described in the thread I have no idea about.
/c
So.... What you're saying is that you DO endorse the bank? (JK).
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Washukanni
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Posted - 2010.08.12 18:03:00 -
[175]
ISD scam best scam!?
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cuoredipietra famedoro
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 18:25:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor CCP really should put a heading on the news column of the log-in screen, to make it clear ... this is not "official" news.
I understand that you might want to protect new players from scam, this is noble. I believe however that would be a wrong thing to do, as IC (Interstellar Correspondents != ISD as a whole) are the *official* ingame source of news by definition. Would you propose founding a player driven Ingame NewsAgency? Or do you propose that CCP takes the matter all in its hands?
Originally by: Washukanni ISD scam best scam!?
ISD is not a scam by definition. Again, ISD != Interstellar Correspondents, ISD for example mantain evelopedia, greet new players and hunt bugs -> this is all explained in the volunteer program page.
We cannot blame reporters for not knowing how banking work, unless of course they are expert MD members, which seems not be the case.
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.12 18:33:00 -
[177]
So the deposit I made is finally on my balance sheet, but the interest for the past three days is nowhere to be found...
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 18:36:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Julius Rigel So the deposit I made is finally on my balance sheet, but the interest for the past three days is nowhere to be found...
That is because they are using the professional technique of manually updating each account.
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 18:42:00 -
[179]
Edited by: flakeys on 12/08/2010 18:44:40
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro We cannot blame reporters for not knowing how banking work, unless of course they are expert MD members, which seems not be the case.
If you don't know wtf you are writing about then just DON'T write about the subject or get someone in who does have any comprehension.This was not newsworthy and if it turns out he scammed the only thing that is newsworthy about it is the coverage about it.
Originally by: Julius Rigel So the deposit I made is finally on my balance sheet, but the interest for the past three days is nowhere to be found...
According to their info page on their forums :'Because of the heavy increase in membership requests we have initiated a temporary policy of compounding interest rates at the end of the month instead of daily to lessen the work load we're currently experiencing'.
Ow boy ....
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.12 18:52:00 -
[180]
Originally by: flakeys If you don't know wtf you are writing about then just DON'T write about the subject or get someone in who does have any comprehension.This was not newsworthy and if it turns out he scammed the only thing that is newsworthy about it is the coverage about it.
You are right. However, this means that they should have known *from the beginning* this was a dangerous subject and they seem have stepped right into a trap whithout realizing the dangers.
This can happen to MD subjects and to non MD subjects. Do you propose they should stop writing alltogheter?
All in all, I believe IC is useful to the large Eve community, and after all players have to be able to watch out themselves and they *must not* rely only on login news.
Now this thread is going from "a new bank in eve" to "IC is unable to report" would you propose creating a separate thread devoted just to reporting?
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Jovialmadness
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 19:07:00 -
[181]
Oh just admit it. You MD guys needed this. Its been terribly boring in here lately.
As a side note ill be checking in later to add my "lol".
Peace! |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 19:36:00 -
[182]
Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 12/08/2010 18:44:40
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro We cannot blame reporters for not knowing how banking work, unless of course they are expert MD members, which seems not be the case.
If you don't know wtf you are writing about then just DON'T write about the subject or get someone in who does have any comprehension.This was not newsworthy and if it turns out he scammed the only thing that is newsworthy about it is the coverage about it.
Originally by: Julius Rigel So the deposit I made is finally on my balance sheet, but the interest for the past three days is nowhere to be found...
According to their info page on their forums :'Because of the heavy increase in membership requests we have initiated a temporary policy of compounding interest rates at the end of the month instead of daily to lessen the work load we're currently experiencing'.
Ow boy ....
what forum?
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 20:08:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Ji Sama
Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 12/08/2010 18:44:40
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro We cannot blame reporters for not knowing how banking work, unless of course they are expert MD members, which seems not be the case.
If you don't know wtf you are writing about then just DON'T write about the subject or get someone in who does have any comprehension.This was not newsworthy and if it turns out he scammed the only thing that is newsworthy about it is the coverage about it.
Originally by: Julius Rigel So the deposit I made is finally on my balance sheet, but the interest for the past three days is nowhere to be found...
According to their info page on their forums :'Because of the heavy increase in membership requests we have initiated a temporary policy of compounding interest rates at the end of the month instead of daily to lessen the work load we're currently experiencing'.
Ow boy ....
what forum?
with that i meant their website , it's got a news section.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 20:19:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 12/08/2010 20:22:03
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro
You are right. However, this means that they should have known *from the beginning* this was a dangerous subject and they seem have stepped right into a trap whithout realizing the dangers.
But therein lays the problem: They could have known, I've they at least read this very thread, which they linked in there news article. Page 1 of this thread, was almost filled at the time the article appeared. And there already were a lot of concerns raised and questions asked on that page.
Not to mention all the numerous "How to? Banks in EVE"-threads in this forum over the last year, which were stimulated by the happenings around DBANK and EBANK.
At the very least, they could have written the article in a much more cautious tone so as to make potential investors aware of the involved risks. Perhaps that was their aim when asking Chribba about his thoughts on banking in EVE. But the way they formulated it, didn't make that clear enough/at all.
Quote:
Now this thread is going from "a new bank in eve" to "IC is unable to report" would you propose creating a separate thread devoted just to reporting?
The outcome - or earning - from this potential scam is directly related to that IC news. It is my guess that if this venture's "PR" solely consisted of this MD thread (and perhaps that random local spamming), the amount of ISK potentially lost would be a lot lower.
Also note that there's still no answer from anyone willing to identify himself as staff of that bank. If any bank should have learned something from previous/current ones, it's that communication is king. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Carl Stewart
Blueprints For You
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 20:26:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Carl Stewart on 12/08/2010 20:26:28
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro ...
You are right. However, this means that they should have known *from the beginning* this was a dangerous subject and they seem have stepped right into a trap whithout realizing the dangers.
...
If they have been playing eve at all, ever been to jita and read local, combined with the 'business plan' of the bank presented here they sure should have known this was not a dangerous subject, but a scam, plain and simple. To do an article about it is quite poor, imho. Researched Blueprints for you, Ammo, Fighters, Drones and Ships |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 20:31:00 -
[186]
I made a nice anti ISD post on General Discussion, For Your Enjoyment.
The really funny thing is that ISD made a post and was quietly removed, but captured on Chribba's site (ftw) in all its glory.
ISD Phantom Post
Note the comment above about ISD comments regurlarly appearing in forums and then disappearing, well that couldn't be more true!
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 20:37:00 -
[187]
Edited by: ISD Serathu Ashk on 12/08/2010 20:37:40
Originally by: cosmoray I made a nice anti ISD post on General Discussion, For Your Enjoyment.
The really funny thing is that ISD made a post and was quietly removed, but captured on Chribba's site (ftw) in all its glory.
ISD Phantom Post
Note the comment above about ISD comments regurlarly appearing in forums and then disappearing, well that couldn't be more true!
I have already replied to the thread in question regarding the missing post.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 21:03:00 -
[188]
Posting to confirm that this thread will now become a threadnaught!
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Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 21:21:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Shoot2kilI I somehow missed the 4-5 pages. Idk how. Anywho. Someone just made off with 3B. Let's all act surprised. I'll get my costume.
Wait, what? ___________________
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 23:00:00 -
[190]
Half way through the first page I made popcorn, but that just didn't hit the spot. So I made waffles!
That is all.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
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Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering Needless Friends
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 03:48:00 -
[191]
I hope others are having better luck with these guys communicating with you cuz I have send evemail after evemail over a dispute and have not gotten a reply. I have even try to convo the teller TheBankofEve and get no response.
My issues is I sent 137,660,000.00 isk on the 10th at 04:14 to open an account per thier web site. This isk was send from my corp account and was to be for my corporation savings. Ive than sent an evemail stating that this was for opening my corp account. The replied with the log in for my account. This account to this day has a balance of 0.00 isk. I have sent evemail after evemail asking to have my balance updated. I am very disappointed in their manner of cx service.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 03:54:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Megalift I hope others are having better luck with these guys communicating with you cuz I have send evemail after evemail over a dispute and have not gotten a reply. I have even try to convo the teller TheBankofEve and get no response.
My issues is I sent 137,660,000.00 isk on the 10th at 04:14 to open an account per thier web site. This isk was send from my corp account and was to be for my corporation savings. Ive than sent an evemail stating that this was for opening my corp account. The replied with the log in for my account. This account to this day has a balance of 0.00 isk. I have sent evemail after evemail asking to have my balance updated. I am very disappointed in their manner of cx service.
I hope your trolling, as the bank is a scam
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Nathan Jameson
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 03:54:00 -
[193]
So I guess the question now is: scam, or gross mismanagement?
(And the implied question would be: is there really a quantifiable difference?)
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Julius Rigel
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 04:54:00 -
[194]
Originally by: cosmoray I made a nice anti ISD post on General Discussion, For Your Enjoyment.
The really funny thing is that ISD made a post and was quietly removed, but captured on Chribba's site (ftw) in all its glory.
ISD Phantom Post
Note the comment above about ISD comments regurlarly appearing in forums and then disappearing, well that couldn't be more true!
What's with all the hate all of a sudden? The IC spend years and years posting bull manure on the front page and in the help channels with their pretentious colored posts and all of a sudden it's 112 and it becomes a problem for you guys?
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 05:24:00 -
[195]
I think the most epic of all epic was when one of their own called Liang a scammer. It was quite beautiful to behold.
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Jovialmadness
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 15:36:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Lucyna Edited by: Lucyna on 13/08/2010 05:31:22 I think the most epic of all epic was when one of their own called Liang a scammer. It was quite beautiful to behold.
Edit: You know the funny thing about it? I think that there is a small chance that the bank creators' intentions weren't bad. The lashing that they got from us plus the free "deposits" they got from the ISD news probably made them reconsider actually taking the time to run their bank, and in its stead, just take all the money and run. It's just a guess.
There were only two possibilities.
1. It was a quick low level scam. The low level alt bs points to it. The crap site points to it.
2. It was intended to atleast get to start up to to see if it worked with the option to scam later, i.e. They were going to scam big time. The low level alts point to it. The crap site points to it.
Guys these tools are feeding off all of your desires to see **** like this work. There is only one way i would invest in stuff like this.
1. The person has atleast 50m sp's and not be a station alt. Must have considerable pvp skills so i know they undock.
2. Full backing by one of two people in game i trust. Chribba or grendell. Others might work like cosmo, F90, akita, darkness/ whatever but my two are my choice.
3. Collateral coverage along with a plan worth a ****.
4. Atleast one name of a friend ingame verified not to be connected to the party with over 25m in pvp skillages so i can make sure they will need to sell their characters when im done.
You do those 4 things and ill invest in some bank.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 16:25:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Jovialmadness
1. Must have considerable pvp skills so i know they undock.
That means crap and you know it. Hell now people at least know what to shoot for to you to invest in a bank. Just train nothing but PvP skills and never undock.
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Jovialmadness
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 16:29:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 13/08/2010 16:36:01 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 13/08/2010 16:32:31
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Jovialmadness
1. Must have considerable pvp skills so i know they undock.
That means crap and you know it. Hell now people at least know what to shoot for to you to invest in a bank. Just train nothing but PvP skills and never undock.
Hehe absolutely!
But good luck with number 2 lol.
I guess my point is id never invest in a bank seeing as how all 4 options satisfied would be near impossible.
Edit2: first edit died. Impossible might not be the right word. Worthless is better. Reason being anybody able to start a bank would be 1. Established 2. Supported 3. Insanely wealthy 4. Willing to offer a friend as a sacrifice.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 17:09:00 -
[199]
I am becoming appreciative of this scam as time goes by.
Although ISD does not endorse what they write, by placing on the logon screen it psychologically implies that it is endorsed by CCP/ISD. By quoting Chribba that is the cherry on the cake.
The real work of genius is to get ISD to report this story. If it had remained solely an MD launch it would have got the death it deserves, but the ISD report is a fantastic manipulation. ISD interviewed one of the perps on July 28th, which is well before the official launch although there may have been a heads up MD thread (can't remember). I wonder who's idea it was to get Chribba input? The bank or ISD?
This is a great social manipulation, and ISD fell for it. Guerilla marketing at its finest.
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Kimbeau Surveryor
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 17:27:00 -
[200]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor CCP really should put a heading on the news column of the log-in screen, to make it clear ... this is not "official" news.
I understand that you might want to protect new players from scam, this is noble. I believe however that would be a wrong thing to do, as IC (Interstellar Correspondents != ISD as a whole) are the *official* ingame source of news by definition. Would you propose founding a player driven Ingame NewsAgency? Or do you propose that CCP takes the matter all in its hands
I think a simple change to the "News" heading to something like "Capsuleers' News Reports" should be all that's needed. If you want to be more explicit, a sentence at the bottom of the column along the lines of "The views expressed in this column are not necessarily those of the management". Except of course some of them are the views of the management, to further confuse the unwary. :-)
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Shelley09
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 18:02:00 -
[201]
I just wanted to ask if an investment was possible, and what security measures are but in place.
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velinqangi
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 18:45:00 -
[202]
Well as I see it, it all boils down to a bank needing full CCP backing. I feel a fully functional bank would do wonders for gameplay, and is a very worthy project for CCP to endorse. Would love to hear more input from the devs on this mess that is eve banking..
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Hexxx
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 18:55:00 -
[203]
Originally by: velinqangi Well as I see it, it all boils down to a bank needing full CCP backing. I feel a fully functional bank would do wonders for gameplay, and is a very worthy project for CCP to endorse. Would love to hear more input from the devs on this mess that is eve banking..
They never will, if I have to explain why that is then you haven't fully considered what you're suggesting. Projects Blog |
flakeys
DRAMA Inc
|
Posted - 2010.08.13 19:33:00 -
[204]
Originally by: cosmoray I am becoming appreciative of this scam as time goes by.
Although ISD does not endorse what they write, by placing on the logon screen it psychologically implies that it is endorsed by CCP/ISD. By quoting Chribba that is the cherry on the cake.
The real work of genius is to get ISD to report this story. If it had remained solely an MD launch it would have got the death it deserves, but the ISD report is a fantastic manipulation. ISD interviewed one of the perps on July 28th, which is well before the official launch although there may have been a heads up MD thread (can't remember). I wonder who's idea it was to get Chribba input? The bank or ISD?
This is a great social manipulation, and ISD fell for it. Guerilla marketing at its finest.
I think you're really giving him more credit then he deserves.Looks more like he had a scam idea and met the right guy at the right place who made the right article for him.Who knows he might just be spamming jita local about having a bank running and linking his own webpage and the newsguy just happends to be in jita seeing it and openeing up a convo with him after wich he gives the usuall jita scammer smoothtalk.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.13 20:27:00 -
[205]
Originally by: cosmoray I am becoming appreciative of this scam as time goes by.
Although ISD does not endorse what they write, by placing on the logon screen it psychologically implies that it is endorsed by CCP/ISD. By quoting Chribba that is the cherry on the cake.
The real work of genius is to get ISD to report this story. If it had remained solely an MD launch it would have got the death it deserves, but the ISD report is a fantastic manipulation. ISD interviewed one of the perps on July 28th, which is well before the official launch although there may have been a heads up MD thread (can't remember). I wonder who's idea it was to get Chribba input? The bank or ISD?
This is a great social manipulation, and ISD fell for it. Guerilla marketing at its finest.
I was contacted by ISD to comment on this new "competition" for EBANK and decided not to respond, although I did post about it in the EBANK thread. I'm glad I didn't comment because who knows how much worse this could have been...
"Look there, Amarr Citizen approves of this new bank and isn't he a part of that other fine example of Eve banking success! Where do I send all my isk?"
A truly dangerous situation indeed. Luckily it was only Chribba who was misrepresented.
-----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****. |
Zea Aestria
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Posted - 2010.08.13 20:41:00 -
[206]
Originally by: cosmoray
The real work of genius is to get ISD to report this story.
This is a great social manipulation, and ISD fell for it.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the ISD reporter was planted by the scammer, or is even an alt of the scammer? I admit that I haven't done any research on what it takes to become an ISD reporter, or what is involved in vetting/editing articles before publication by ISD, but I'm just throwing this out there.
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Kimbeau Surveryor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.13 21:32:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Zea Aestria
Originally by: cosmoray
The real work of genius is to get ISD to report this story.
This is a great social manipulation, and ISD fell for it.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the ISD reporter was planted by the scammer, or is even an alt of the scammer? I admit that I haven't done any research on what it takes to become an ISD reporter, or what is involved in vetting/editing articles before publication by ISD, but I'm just throwing this out there.
LOL That would make this quite a classic Eve scam!
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.13 22:38:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Zea Aestria
Originally by: cosmoray
The real work of genius is to get ISD to report this story.
This is a great social manipulation, and ISD fell for it.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the ISD reporter was planted by the scammer, or is even an alt of the scammer? I admit that I haven't done any research on what it takes to become an ISD reporter, or what is involved in vetting/editing articles before publication by ISD, but I'm just throwing this out there.
The IC reporter was not "planted" and has been a reporter for over a year now, something a quick check of the in-game character would show. Indeed, becoming an IC reporter takes an application, two interviews, quite a lot of checking and an NDA, among other things - not something that happens particularly quickly.
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.13 23:31:00 -
[209]
He doth spoketh in my MD! Welcome ISD Serathu! Are you here to clean up the mess ISD started? Good luck!
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.14 00:40:00 -
[210]
ISD Serathu Ashk, you said earlier that you will respond to the criticism at an appropriate time and place. When you do, could you make your response a bit broader and take a paragraph or two to explain what selection criteria ISD uses for news items? (In general, not just for this particular case.)
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.14 13:39:00 -
[211]
Before we get to replying to the things that have cropped up here, I've been a bit busy with RL, hence my delay in getting stuck into this.
There are a number of issues here and I'll do my best to separate out each of them and reply accordingly but if you feel I've missed something, ask away.
"ISD/CCP/God Endorses/Advertises This Bank"
Well, I can't speak for God on this matter but with regards to CCP, IC has an editorial independance from CCP (for various good reasons) and there was no involvement in this specific article. It's also written by IC, not ISD - those hard working fiction, help channel, bug hunter and wiki volunteers also had nothing to do with it; please make sure you know who you're throwing stones at before you start throwing stones.
"But it's on the login page, therefore..." I hear you cry.
IC has in no way endorsed (formally approved) or comercially advertised (praised a commercial product) this bank with the article. What we have done is *informed* people of its existance and aims and given platform and attention to the discussion of both this bank specifically and EVE banking in general. I would hope that as visitors to the Market Discussions forum, you'd see that as a positive thing.
We've done what any news organisation would do regarding a new venture of interest its readers (which evidently this is) - report on it, put it in context and provide contrast. When the BBC writes a news article about a new tech startup, yes that company gets extra attention as a result but any intelligent person will tell you that this does not mean that the BBC is endorsing, promoting or taking responsibility for their products. Any person that does think that and gets stung if it does prove to be a scam got what was coming to them in my view.
"Chribba Endorses This Bank"
I and several others have read the paragraph in question several times over about a dozen which ways around and it absolutely does not state that Chribba endorses the bank. It was comment from a respected individual (something we're grateful for) about what the bank would need to do to gain trust. If you take comment and context as endorsement, see my above feelings about getting stung.
"But it's a scam!!!1111!
Yep, a number of people with a lot to say have raised some pretty worrying points about this bank. The article was written just before the bank launched and went out just after with a couple of modifications due to a delay at our end which I won't go into the technicalities of. Needless to say, it wasn't 100% up to date and I'm pretty unhappy about that and I apologise. That behind us though, it's clear more has happened since then that might make a good follow up; indeed, we're already working on it and if anyone from the bank would like an opportunity to comment, details are below. We're also looking at the possiblity of a disclaimer in similar articles in the future and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
"RABBLE!"
Hey, it's the forums! But there are other ways of contacting us:
Submit a news lead Send us an email Join is in #eve-news on irc.coldfront.net.
That's probably enough from me for now as I need some sleep but I'll be back
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.14 13:52:00 -
[212]
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
We've done what any news organisation would do regarding a new venture of interest its readers (which evidently this is) - report on it, put it in context and provide contrast.
That is just what everyone is trying to point out.It was NOT a venture of interest and not news worthy.That is the key-chokepoint.The guy made a scamsite just like it happends all the time.Riethe and others have used that way of scamming a ****load of times.It was NOT news , however now it is.So good luck on covering that in the new news article wich i am sure will follow now.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.14 14:44:00 -
[213]
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk We've done what any news organisation would do regarding a new venture of interest its readers (which evidently this is) - report on it, put it in context and provide contrast.
Unfortunately you are correct that is that many news organisations do, but it is crap journalism. Sometime in the last decades journalism went from well-researched, authoritative pieces to a "we report, you decide" attitude. It is the great failure of journalism and a danger to the general population, because the general population is not in a position to make an informed decision.
In this case, the public was informed that someone was launching a new bank in EVE. What responsible journalists would do is have look at the bank, the people behind the bank, the business plan, etc, and make a report on that (or even better, decide it's not worth reporting on). Instead we get a few quotes from the bank, a few quotes from some other people, and no actual information on the bank itself.
Fact is you are in a position of responsibility, even though you deny any responsibility. You can claim it's up to the public to get more information before acting on the report, but many people don't have the knowledge to evaluate a business plan (if they could find the business plan, it took us some effort to dig that up). You should provide the information they need and interpret it for them, because they are not able to do that. That's what journalism is.
On a side note, I'm still interest in how you decide what's worth reporting on or interesting to report in.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.14 15:22:00 -
[214]
I think this may be more a question of taste than anything else.
If ISD presented the facts accurately and commented in a fair, balanced manner then the only fault we can find is that they need to take cognisance of the effect their articles can have on the greater populace in order to better decide both the relevancy and worthiness of subject matter. As the only sanctioned news agency they have a responsibility to ensure the negative effects are negligible.
In this case I don't think they were, and am also led to believe that there was some journalistic creativity employed when quoting prominent individuals.
Either way, lessons learned and we can all grow from this?
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.14 16:46:00 -
[215]
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk "Chribba Endorses This Bank" I and several others have read the paragraph in question several times over about a dozen which ways around and it absolutely does not state that Chribba endorses the bank. It was comment from a respected individual (something we're grateful for) about what the bank would need to do to gain trust. If you take comment and context as endorsement, see my above feelings about getting stung.
With "absolutely does not state" you are correct, but that is a Chewbacca defense. The relevant paragraph in the article is: Originally by: Well known and trusted capsuleer, Chribba, gave a short statement saying that in his belief the customer needs to have "trust and faith" that the bank will take good care of their money. The bank would also need to communicate as failing to do so would make trust in the venture "decrease" in Chribba's opinion.
The problem is that the bold-faced part can have more than one meaning, and one of those meanings is that Chribba supports the venture (not that it expressly states "Chribba endorses"). That part might mean that Chribba thinks the bank is good, and for it to really succeed, he advocates people having "trust and faith" in this particular bank ("customer needs to").
The further notion that failing to communicate would reduce trust in the venture might to many readers imply that Chribba had some trust in the venture already.
I understand that none of that is what Chribba meant. A few more choice words would have cleared away such ambiguities. á á
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Hell's Librarians Imperium Directive
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Posted - 2010.08.14 16:49:00 -
[216]
How was contact between the OP and the IC initiated? Did the OP solicit the IC for an article/exposure or did the IC approach the OP? Or did the IC and the OP already know each other and work in tandem?
KB
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Cobalt Sixty
Caldari Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.08.14 18:08:00 -
[217]
Ignoring for a moment the somewhat enticing topic where one of your reporters fail-trolled someone who posted in support of the ISD ...
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk Well, I can't speak for God on this matter but with regards to CCP, IC has an editorial independance from CCP (for various good reasons) and there was no involvement in this specific article.
Which I'm sure is why they're called "spatial distortions" and not "the vine rotten fruit of our employer screwing the pooch with their last expansion"
Furthermore, if you don't think the Chribba quote was poorly inserted then sir, I have an Utu to sell you ...
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.15 11:00:00 -
[218]
You did it again ...
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
"Chribba Endorses This Bank"
I and several others have read the paragraph in question several times over about a dozen which ways around and it absolutely does not state that Chribba endorses the bank. It was comment from a respected individual (something we're grateful for) about what the bank would need to do to gain trust. If you take comment and context as endorsement, see my above feelings about getting stung.
Let me quote Chribba how he was approached:
Quote:
I was pretty much apporached with the question "what is needed to make a bank work in eve" -
See the difference? And this is the problematic misunderstanding that happened. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.15 15:33:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/08/2010 15:35:52
Quote:
Well as I see it, it all boils down to a bank needing full CCP backing. I feel a fully functional bank would do wonders for gameplay, and is a very worthy project for CCP to endorse. Would love to hear more input from the devs on this mess that is eve banking..
CCP won't implement another passive and 100% safe money faucet, money is way too easy to make already. There's datacore passive farming already, use it as "bank" if you really want some passive cash, before CCP eventually nerf that as well (datacore alts are a potential PLEX sink or even an "once a year" RL cash subscription income, so they might be here to stay...).
It'd be totally against EvE's general philosophy to give something that has all of the following:
- 100% safe - 100% no sink at all - 100% automatic and not player action required
What CCP could do is to give players more advanced tools. This often means some more "RL alike tools", since what we experience in EvE has been experienced in the past in RL and solved. Even then, there'll always be the "can't jail you in RL for stealing the in game bank" factor and this is a though one to implement in a game.
Quote:
We've done what any news organisation would do regarding a new venture of interest its readers (which evidently this is) - report on it, put it in context and provide contrast. When the BBC writes a news article about a new tech startup, yes that company gets extra attention as a result but any intelligent person will tell you that this does not mean that the BBC is endorsing, promoting or taking responsibility for their products. Any person that does think that and gets stung if it does prove to be a scam got what was coming to them in my view
You know what?
They are crying exactly like they do for audits (ISD Serathu Ashk, will you ever cover EvE Audits in your news? It could help revive a meta-profession AS legitimate AS starting a bank).
Audits too are unilaterally seen as endorsement, security, "faith" when all they are is mere *information* about a start up or established investee / operation.
Edit: notice how this does not justify the deformation in information which risks damaging Chribba, the rendering of his opinion has been shallow and rushed at best.
Quote:
It is the great failure of journalism and a danger to the general population, because the general population is not in a position to make an informed decision.
It's not a failure of journalism, it's a failure of <place here country> education system that instead of raising self conscious, self thinking citizens, they create stupid muppets ready to be manipulated.
The fix is to make people self conscious, not to keep them under someone else's gown and delegate brain to factious third parties. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.08.15 16:13:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Nathan Jameson on 15/08/2010 16:13:10
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
It is the great failure of journalism and a danger to the general population, because the general population is not in a position to make an informed decision.
It's not a failure of journalism, it's a failure of <place here country> education system that instead of raising self conscious, self thinking citizens, they create stupid muppets ready to be manipulated.
The fix is to make people self conscious, not to keep them under someone else's gown and delegate brain to factious third parties.
No, I think the point here is that the average person simply doesn't have the resources to investigate all the sides and pertinent aspects of an issue. Unless you're "there" and are an involved member (and even then, only half the time), you are simply trusting that what a given source(s) is telling you about a given topic or event is complete and well-researched.
Even if you trust they are 100% unbiased, do they have ALL the facts for the entire issue? Do they have the time and space to represent all those facts in a balanced manner? That's what you're taking on faith.
The internet is a great example of this. People make all sorts of opinions and decisions about the war in Iraq, for example, but I was there. And I know a lot of facts simply don't get reported or emphasized to the same level as others. The situation was a lot different on the ground than the news clips you see. That isn't the fault of the viewers; you simply can't make an informed decision on imperfect information.
I think that's the point that Estel was trying to make; and that as a respectable news-reporting agency, an organization like ISD has to live up to a certain level of accountability. Not simply shrug it off on readers.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.15 18:53:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's not a failure of journalism, it's a failure of <place here country> education system that instead of raising self conscious, self thinking citizens, they create stupid muppets ready to be manipulated.
The fix is to make people self conscious, not to keep them under someone else's gown and delegate brain to factious third parties.
What Nathan Jameson said. All the eduction in the world won't help if people get fed crap/irrelevant/incomplete information from journalists.
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.15 20:55:00 -
[222]
Edited by: cuoredipietra famedoro on 15/08/2010 20:55:16
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
I think that's the point that Estel was trying to make; and that as a respectable news-reporting agency, an organization like ISD has to live up to a certain level of accountability. Not simply shrug it off on readers.
While understand both Nathan and Estel point of view, I do not believe that a group of volunteers can be really considered accountable for ingame news.
A videogame is not real life, ISK loss or gained is not real money and those are not professional journalists: they are players who volunteer their time to give a service to our community.
However, and for the sake of a constructive discussion, how could a reporter be considered accountable for his/her article? Are you proposing some kind of "punishment" for those who write "bad" news? And, who should decide on that? the playerbase?
The latter case I believe most of those reporters would be grilled by players in the space of a single article. And then, the ingame news service would be gone.
What would you propose?
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.15 21:30:00 -
[223]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro A videogame is not real life.
Of course it's real life. Does it take place in a different time dimension? It's just a different type of social interaction. The not RL excuse is trotted out all too often to excuse failure.
Quote: Those are not professional journalists: they are players who volunteer their time to give a service to our community.
More excuses. Don't volunteer if you don't know what you're doing. And their rep in this thread could start by learning how to spell. Comes in handy as a journalist.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.15 21:57:00 -
[224]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro While understand both Nathan and Estel point of view, I do not believe that a group of volunteers can be really considered accountable for ingame news.
A videogame is not real life, ISK loss or gained is not real money and those are not professional journalists: they are players who volunteer their time to give a service to our community.
Being a volunteer does not mean you cannot be held to certain standards. I provide a service to the community and I strive to provide the best service.
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro However, and for the sake of a constructive discussion, how could a reporter be considered accountable for his/her article? Are you proposing some kind of "punishment" for those who write "bad" news? And, who should decide on that? the playerbase?
Punishment is not what I would propose. There should be certain standards and every reporter should aim to meet those standards. The editor in chief should decide on a piece by piece basis if it meets the standards, and should reject sub-standard pieces.
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro What would you propose?
I propose that reportors think about what they write, and show some scepticism towards claims being made instead of just reporting them.
To show what I mean, I'll do a short sentence-level analysis of the EOBT article. I'll first quote the sentence (or sentences) in italics, and then post what the reporter should be thinking at the point. Of course he should not only think it, but also act on it and report on it.
- The Bank Of Eve [EOBT] has opened for business, aiming to bring trust to New Eden where other banks have had past difficulty. How are they going about that?
- "Blastyoazz666, a founding member of the bank believes that it has the potential be the best in New Eden." 'why' and 'how'?
- "He claimed that capsuleers "always look for more ISK", and there is no better way than by "getting a loan"." Is that true? And is this support for the previous statement, or is it irrelevant?
- "He also stated that he believes EOBT will be successful as they have "watched the rest fail", and have learned from those mistakes by other banks." What were those mistakes? What did they learn? How will similar mistakes be prevented?
- "He believes that to succeed they need to earn the trust of the capsuleers that will be banking with them" How will the trust be earned?
- "and need to put in the work: "We are dedicating all of our time to this idea. We have spreadsheets made for quick look ups on members."" Are spreadsheets a good way of going about this? Will the api be used?
- "Blastyoazz666 further explained that confidence will be achieved by asking customers to "put up collateral"" How much collateral? What type of collateral? Does that meet the industry standards?
- "and that they already have some who wish to "try us out and see how we do"." Who? How many? Does this say anything about the business?
- "EOBT has taken four months of planning" How did this planning process go?
- "and they believe they are ready for anything" What is the worst-case scenario?
- "even when hiring, as they plan to do "background checks" on all new staff which includes talking to all their past corporations." Is this a good way to do background checks? What about their own background/history?
[[Conclusion in next post]]
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.15 21:57:00 -
[225]
If there's one thing that I think should've been done better, it's the complete lack of supporting arguments given for statements (some of which were very bold). The article lacks depth. Why can they be trusted? Why are they better? Why will they be successful? All of this has been reported uncritically and without any arguments.
Note that the reporter was in an ideal position to get an answer to these questions, since he did the interview. Vaerah Vahrokha would expect readers to go after this type of information, but that is completely unrealistic. For the readers of the article it would be very hard to get this information, and I think EOBT would go crazy if they'd have to explain this 300000 times to every single reader individually. (He couldn't even handle a few questions on MD).
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.15 22:10:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Estel Arador (He couldn't even handle a few questions on MD).
QFT!!
It's been a week and still no word from the OP.
My question to the ISD is when will you report this as a scam??
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.15 22:18:00 -
[227]
Quote:
Note that the reporter was in an ideal position to get an answer to these questions, since he did the interview. Vaerah Vahrokha would expect readers to go after this type of information, but that is completely unrealistic
I always assume by default that anything both in game and RL I read or watch is written by:
- incompetent or manipulated people - biased people - hidden agenda people
At this point I can choose to "believe" the news that don't impact on me and focus on those that impact on me. In the latter case, if I don't get to know my own **** it's fair and square that I'll get face-humped (worst case scenario).
The sad part is that even in RL people "just believe" to whatever manure is thrown at them, even in important topics like their savings account and similar. You may find my scenario unrealistic, I call it "enjoy the best but be ready for the worst".
If others prefer to delegate knowledge and decisions to others... be my guests, social engineers need some stupid meat to manipulate after all.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.15 22:24:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha utter crap
You were extolling the benefits of good eduction earlier. At this point I'm wasting my academic training in communication arguing with a twit. If anyone else has something useful to add to the discussion (cuoredipietra perhaps?), I'll be happy to reply.
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.15 22:27:00 -
[229]
well,
at this point I am led to believe that a news agency dedicated only to MD news and people would be the best we could ask for.
possibly, one or more veterans of the MD forum could lead the way and teach youngsters how to report on MD stuff.
Also, having a player-run news agency is something has not really be done until now. Yes, we have eve tribune and such, but it is not the same of having real capsuleers engaging in reporting duties and putting their main's face into it.
My guess, keeping their e-reputation would motivate wannabe reporters to aim to the highest standard.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.15 22:43:00 -
[230]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro well,
at this point I am led to believe that a news agency dedicated only to MD news and people would be the best we could ask for.
possibly, one or more veterans of the MD forum could lead the way and teach youngsters how to report on MD stuff.
I don't think a dedicated news agency would be needed, but it might be useful if ISD had one or two contacts which it could run business related articles by before they're posted.
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro My guess, keeping their e-reputation would motivate wannabe reporters to aim to the highest standard.
I agree. Currently all reporters have an ISD-identity which completely separate from their 'real' ingame identity (except when they accidentally post with the wrong alt ). I don't see why that should be necessary. Why not have capsuleers submit stories, run it past an editor for some checks (rp-proof etc) and post that? (with both the writer and the editor's name) Some people might only submit once, others might make a career out of it.
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.15 22:48:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Estel Arador Why not have capsuleers submit stories, run it past an editor for some checks (rp-proof etc) and post that? (with both the writer and the editor's name) Some people might only submit once, others might make a career out of it.
mmm, this point is not really clear to me, could you explain more? I believe however they already receive some sort of feed as in every article there is a link to a submission form.
As for the hidden identities. Possibly these serve the purpose to avoid the main toon of each reporter to be griefed. That is why I believe that real players writing news and posting them with their main would do. Reputation is a strong incentive, here in MD more then in other forums.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.15 23:04:00 -
[232]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro mmm, this point is not really clear to me, could you explain more? I believe however they already receive some sort of feed as in every article there is a link to a submission form.
You can submit a lead to a story which you think might be interesting, but not complete stories. ISD will do their own research based on the lead and write an article.
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cuoredipietra famedoro
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Posted - 2010.08.15 23:14:00 -
[233]
Edited by: cuoredipietra famedoro on 15/08/2010 23:14:13
Originally by: Estel Arador
You can submit a lead to a story which you think might be interesting, but not complete stories. ISD will do their own research based on the lead and write an article.
I think this is a very good idea, but i am not sure if it can be realized... let me explain:
As much as we know publishing article under Correspondent's banner require the correspondent to being approve, being checked, signing some documents and stuff like that. If the process works like that, I believe we are still better off doing on our own.
I'll sleep over it... but I'd love if we had an RP newsagency dedicated to economy.. I would contribute to it.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.16 00:24:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's not a failure of journalism, it's a failure of <place here country> education system that instead of raising self conscious, self thinking citizens, they create stupid muppets ready to be manipulated.
I beg to differ. If there's a failure in the education system, than it's that it produces crooks instead of honest, hard working people. The attitude of always blaming the victim is something I never liked.
Granted there are people who fall all too easy for bad ideas. But I'd rather prefer the guy who gives back the 5 bucks change he got too much than the grinning smart-ass who recognizes the waiter's fault but nonetheless keeps the money. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Yendor Widdershins
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.08.16 02:35:00 -
[235]
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
First, I appreciate your time in sharing ISD's perspective. And overall I do appreciate the job you do.
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
IC has in no way endorsed (formally approved) or comercially advertised (praised a commercial product) this bank with the article.
Your article caused a large number of people to give their money to a scammer who would have otherwise been unaware of the bank. In that sense, it was free advertising for the scammer.
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
What we have done is *informed* people of its existance and aims and given platform and attention to the discussion of both this bank specifically and EVE banking in general. I would hope that as visitors to the Market Discussions forum, you'd see that as a positive thing.
Exactly, you called attention to a scam without calling attention to any of the warning signs. Except you didn't really inform people of the aims of the scammers; rather you uncritically published the founders words without analysis or rebuttal. I.E. you gave the scammer a platform to pitch his scam.
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
When the BBC writes a news article about a new tech startup, yes that company gets extra attention as a result but any intelligent person will tell you that this does not mean that the BBC is endorsing, promoting or taking responsibility for their products. Any person that does think that and gets stung if it does prove to be a scam got what was coming to them in my view.
Except in real life scams are rare and have consequences to the scammers. A new tech startup might or might not have a good business case or a compelling product, but it is very rare for it to be a complete fabrication. And most of the time BBC will post analysis from other people, explicitly warning about possible lack of business plan, difficulty in bringing products to market, ...
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk
"But it's a scam!!!1111!
Yep. It's a scam, and a pretty obvious one at that. A possibility that didn't seem to occur to your credulous reporter. And it's worth repeating:
The only thing noteworthy about this scam is it had an ISD article written about it
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.16 06:51:00 -
[236]
Quote:
I beg to differ. If there's a failure in the education system, than it's that it produces crooks instead of honest, hard working people. The attitude of always blaming the victim is something I never liked.
First of all thank you for not personally insulting people when you differ (unlike "pick-everything apart", "live to negatively criticize" others).
I agree with you instead, but I think you did not differentiate enough, between having people educated to be smart and actively choosing NOT to be crooks and dishonest vs people being educated to be cunning crooks.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.16 10:10:00 -
[237]
Originally by: cuoredipietra famedoro
I'll sleep over it... but I'd love if we had an RP news agency dedicated to economy.. I would contribute to it.
We had one for about 4-5 months last year (Eve Morning Report, an Audio Blog). Started with just Forge prices on minerals, moon stuff, etc but branched out to interviews and some broader audio discussions. Was great, his post timing even fit well with my leaving work for home.
Unfortunately the player appears to have dropped off. Even the website doesn't exist anymore.
Regarding the topic, I'm also curious about getting more detail on the ISD (or at least IC's) acceptance process. I considered ISD for awhile, though not for IC (was more interested in Mercury tbh).
I can understand if NDAs will hold back some of that (heck, I'm still under one for Myst Online's '06 beta) but even a bit more transparency would go a long way - especially with this group.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.16 10:26:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
First of all thank you for not personally insulting people when you differ (unlike "pick-everything apart", "live to negatively criticize" others).
If you look through my posting history, you will note that I seldom - if at all - resort to ad hominem attacks. It is my personal credo that the one who starts name calling, has lost the discussion. Cynical, ironical, sarcastic: yes. Outright cursing: seldom.
That's also why I called this one "potential" or "most likely" scam throughout my postings here and not outright "scam". It might have been planned as a scam, but I still see the (slim) chance that it could have simply been a very bad business plan. Let's see if and how are the first withdrawal requests are handled.
Quote:
I agree with you instead, but I think you did not differentiate enough, between having people educated to be smart and actively choosing NOT to be crooks and dishonest vs people being educated to be cunning crooks.
Agreed. And its not only education. White collar crime is still seen as a trivial offense and too often admired by too many people. This needs to stop. Both in RL and in EVE.
@ISD/IC: Now that we are where we are with this, how about a second article which raises some serious warning flags to potential investors? -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:38:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Estel Arador I agree. Currently all reporters have an ISD-identity which completely separate from their 'real' ingame identity (except when they accidentally post with the wrong alt ). I don't see why that should be necessary. Why not have capsuleers submit stories, run it past an editor for some checks (rp-proof etc) and post that? (with both the writer and the editor's name) Some people might only submit once, others might make a career out of it.
In real life, I totally agree with you. Accountability is a key part of journalism and this is a constant source of conflict in my head given the way IC has to operate. However, we operate this way for good reason; please allow me to explain.
EVE isn't like real life in the sense that the actions in EVE carry far less severe consequences than actions in real life. If a reporter were to write an article exposing the failings of an alliance, that alliance could very easily make the game unplayable for the reporter in question. However, if a reporter in real life were to write an article exposing the failings of a company, laws, police, prisons and many other protective systemes exist to safeguard the freedoms of the reporter from persecution for their work.
This issue is one of the biggest reasons why reporters cannot use their player characters to report news.
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:42:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween @ISD/IC: Now that we are where we are with this, how about a second article which raises some serious warning flags to potential investors?
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk That behind us though, it's clear more has happened since then that might make a good follow up; indeed, we're already working on it and if anyone from the bank would like an opportunity to comment, details are below. We're also looking at the possiblity of a disclaimer in similar articles in the future and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
We're suffering a lot from reporters having RL commitments and although a reporter has been assigned this item in our tracking system, they've been unable to finish the article, hence the delay. Needless to say, I'm chasing it.
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.16 13:47:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Estel Arador I don't think a dedicated news agency would be needed, but it might be useful if ISD had one or two contacts which it could run business related articles by before they're posted.
We're always looking for more people to help us with our work and it's clear you have a significant interest in this and yet I've not seen an application from you. Why not apply if you think you can make a difference?
If you do apply though, please don't mention it here as it will void your application.
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ISD Serathu Ashk
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2010.08.16 14:09:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Note that the reporter was in an ideal position to get an answer to these questions, since he did the interview. Vaerah Vahrokha would expect readers to go after this type of information, but that is completely unrealistic
I always assume by default that anything both in game and RL I read or watch is written by:
- incompetent or manipulated people - biased people - hidden agenda people
At this point I can choose to "believe" the news that don't impact on me and focus on those that impact on me. In the latter case, if I don't get to know my own **** it's fair and square that I'll get face-humped (worst case scenario).
The sad part is that even in RL people "just believe" to whatever manure is thrown at them, even in important topics like their savings account and similar. You may find my scenario unrealistic, I call it "enjoy the best but be ready for the worst".
If others prefer to delegate knowledge and decisions to others... be my guests, social engineers need some stupid meat to manipulate after all.
As soon as you make assumptions regarding the production of what you read and use your own view of the "agenda" of the people who write it, you bias your perception of that product; something you deride the producers of that product for doing at the creation stage.
By all means have a critical eye aimed at our output but please don't hang us by the same "bias" that you by your own admission use in your reading.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.08.16 14:44:00 -
[243]
Edited by: SencneS on 16/08/2010 14:45:16 ISD Serathu Ashk, the problem is much more simple then most are making out. Unintended consequences.. There is a certain responsibility to journalists, to realize ALL consequences of reporting a particular news story. A real life example of this is reporting identities of undercover law enforcement or agents etc. You could have the best intentions to report of a hero who has stopped 80% of the coke-ain hitting the streets by taking down an entire cartel. Or how an undercover agent in Afghanistan found the location of Osama which lead to a bombing and confirmation of his death etc. As much as "Good" intentions are, the unintended consequences of such a feel good article can lead to the death of that very person you're honoring for eternity in print..
While the news article is not the same caliber the effect is the same, people sent ISK to this guy because it was reported as a Bank. What do people do with Banks? They give it money in return for interest. So the responsibility to the journalist is simple to work out the following.
1) If I report this as a Bank, and people see that is a bank how will they react. 2) In real life a Bank is used to house money in return get interest or access to their money. 3) Money is EVE is ISK, so the logical conclusion is, ISK from players will be going to this new Bank.. 4) Scamming is legal in EVE and people scam for ISK.. 5) Can I live with the fact that this ISK could be scammed by any player who deposits ISK?
If the answer is YES then ISD is partly responsible for any ISK that is scammed. Is the answer is NO then you should retract the article and issue an appropriate response to all those that lost their ISK... I hope this makes it a little more clear at least from my perspective why I didn't like this particular article.
Edit:- weird, ok...
Amarr for Life |
Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.16 16:30:00 -
[244]
If you really wanted to start a bank, you should've done your research first (as people have stated multiple times in the thread). I've never invested in a bank because there's no mechanics in EVE to ensure that you wouldn't get scammed somehow.
Also, the website is ...er...not secure. No HTTPS for login or even using the PIN specified when registering? No API links? Nothing? Everything on there is wide open; one of the very things that would turn people away (other than the less-than-great performances by other banks).
When I saw the ISD article I thought "hey, if it's reported then it must be an actual attempt"...but from the looks of this thread, it's questionable at best. I forgot to mention that you are in fact reading something that is called a signature. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.16 17:26:00 -
[245]
Quote:
By all means have a critical eye aimed at our output but please don't hang us by the same "bias" that you by your own admission use in your reading
My reply was not aimed at you, the only critic I'd feel like to pose is about the reference to Chribba. It'd be a real letdown to have people associate him with this fiasco, after all what Chribba has done to stay neutral and "correct".
Finally, I am biased indeed and I say it with a straigth face. I am super-over-mega defensive, because in my life I had to HTFU and surround myself in a thick defensive shell otherwise I'd be ruined for good. I am confident others had a linear and happy life with no shakeoffs nor earthquakes, kudos to them. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.16 21:48:00 -
[246]
Thanks for the replies ISD Serathu Ashk.
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk In real life, I totally agree with you. Accountability is a key part of journalism and this is a constant source of conflict in my head given the way IC has to operate. However, we operate this way for good reason; please allow me to explain.
EVE isn't like real life in the sense that the actions in EVE carry far less severe consequences than actions in real life. If a reporter were to write an article exposing the failings of an alliance, that alliance could very easily make the game unplayable for the reporter in question. (...)
This issue is one of the biggest reasons why reporters cannot use their player characters to report news.
I don't find this a very compelling reason, for various reasons. In no particular order:
- Personal consequences to a report might motivate the reporter to create a better, more objective story. - It is not a reason to publish all reports under a pseudonym. One could imagine a system where potentially damaging stories are published a general "from our correspondent" while other pieces are reported under the real name. - Other players have no problem at all reporting on events in/around EVE under their own name on external sites (Massively, Tentonhammer, blogs, etc).
Originally by: ISD Serathu Ashk We're always looking for more people to help us with our work and it's clear you have a significant interest in this and yet I've not seen an application from you. Why not apply if you think you can make a difference?
The reason why you haven't seen an application from me yet is simple: I can't contribute using my own name. I don't have a very fluid concept of identity. My active characters are called Estel Arador, Estel Again, Estel Also, Estel Alt, and EstelArador CorpServices. About half of other the "Estel ____" which can be found ingame are former trial characters I had. If I were to join IC, I'd need a name like "ISD Estel A___" and I don't think that's allowed.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.18 03:44:00 -
[247]
Can't believe I missed this one! Where do I put my isk?
[SoE:X]
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T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.18 04:51:00 -
[248]
That took some reading to get to this page.
While I'm always impressed by the intelligence oozing from some members of this subforum, I am overwhelmed by your seriousness. Anybody want some hat?
-T'amber
[SoE:X]
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:34:00 -
[249]
Interestingly, Hydra Fund has been approached by TheBankofEve today.
This made me skim through this thread. A couple of things are standing out: 1) There has been no response here since the first few day, neither a triumphant post or a serious of post reporting "problems" 2) Given the number of pages that this scam discussion is covering, one thing is striking: where are the investors? In any scam every single one will line up their claims and how they feel about it. I can see only two people that have claimed they have frozen accounts, Ubi Dellmar and Megalift.
My guess is that there was never any real influx. I could have my one million isk returned, but I won't since people would just get wrong ideas. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:26:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Cista2 Interestingly, Hydra Fund has been approached by TheBankofEve today.
This made me skim through this thread. A couple of things are standing out: 1) There has been no response here since the first few day, neither a triumphant post or a serious of post reporting "problems" 2) Given the number of pages that this scam discussion is covering, one thing is striking: where are the investors? In any scam every single one will line up their claims and how they feel about it. I can see only two people that have claimed they have frozen accounts, Ubi Dellmar and Megalift.
My guess is that there was never any real influx. I could have my one million isk returned, but I won't since people would just get wrong ideas.
A couple of things stood out for me too...chiefly a lack of engagement by bank management. If they want to run a Bank, that is part of it.
1) Huge security/privacy holes on the website 2) No evidence of withdraws being done 3) Zero communication from bank management
Three strikes and your out. Projects Blog |
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Benei Drigsby
Gallente Lifecycle Freight
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Posted - 2010.08.18 12:09:00 -
[251]
So basically, some A1C from finance puts together an in-game EVE bank and its "advertised" on the pop up I pay no attention to when I log in. AF finance offices are notorious for jacking up peoples pay, so I don't get why that was a selling point. Heck, that's a huge red flag.
I just read through all of that hoping for some juicy ending, or some foolish Airman posting his ID card for the world to see. More to come....?
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Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.08.21 10:36:00 -
[252]
In a previous post, I reported that my Bank of Eve account was inaccessible on the website and that the bank was unresponsive to my requests for assistance.
I have since received communication from the bank character and now have access to my account from the website.
The banking character claimed that they had not received my EVEmail. I show the mail in the sent folder, so either we have an EVEmail glitch or the request was buried and missed.
So, for the time being, I'm going to let my ISK ride and see where this all goes.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.21 11:43:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Cista2 on 21/08/2010 11:43:53
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar I have since received communication from the bank character and now have access to my account from the website.
Well that's bl**dy interesting. Despite all the publicity and drama there is currently only a single person (Megalift) with an ongoing problem now.
Edit: Sorry, I mean, we only *know* of a single person. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.23 03:33:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Cista2 Despite all the publicity and drama there is currently only a single person (Megalift) with an ongoing problem now. Edit: Sorry, I mean, we only *know* of a single person.
Well, that depends. Would you say that the definition of "problem" for a would-be-bank encompasses (i) a failure to provide basic information about the purported bank's operations, or (ii) a failure to follow through with simple and easy-to-keep voluntarily promises? á á
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K3JD6
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Posted - 2010.08.26 13:34:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04 Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
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Yanneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.27 05:14:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Yanneau on 27/08/2010 05:17:03 Edited by: Yanneau on 27/08/2010 05:16:33
Originally by: K3JD6
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04 Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
I can't believe that. And is this supposed to be a bank? secure, confidential.. I can just LOL or ROFL (or even better) ROLFMAO to that. 10 mins ago, I was naively planning to make some deposits (I'm a noob what else do you expect? ) but after reading this thread, there's no way they can convince me to deposit even 1 ISK.
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Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.08.27 06:30:00 -
[257]
Originally by: K3JD6
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 08/08/2010 18:09:04 Since I am interested in aspects of banking in general, I have sent 1 mil isk for a savings account.
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
Wow. That's really weak.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.27 15:08:00 -
[258]
Originally by: K3JD6
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
What plagues me way more than the obvious privacy issue here is that ?p=<path to filename to execute> part of the URL. This screams "Hack me!". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.08.27 16:54:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: K3JD6
And everyone can see it. http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/cista2.php
What plagues me way more than the obvious privacy issue here is that ?p=<path to filename to execute> part of the URL. This screams "Hack me!".
Haven't we come to an agreement that the money put in has basically been lost at this point? And we've already figured out the whole - you can see everyone's balance - problem. It's bad bad bad, mk?
Still (whY???) thinking about putting your $$ in? DON'T!!
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Londo Cebb
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Posted - 2010.08.27 19:03:00 -
[260]
I was thinking of depositing some Isk. into this yesterday, however I found a much more secure investment. Apparently some nice man in Jita is giving away his fortune. All I had to do is send him all my Isk. and he is gonna send me back double! He hasen't sent it back yet, but I am sure he's just busy.
How, for the love of zombie Jesus, could anyone still be thinking of sending "TheBankOfEve" even a single Isk.?
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.27 21:01:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Londo Cebb How, for the love of zombie Jesus, could anyone still be thinking of sending "TheBankOfEve" even a single Isk.?
Perhaps because after the prominent coverage of ISD, there's still a follow-up article to come, which questions at least the business plan & practice of this "bank". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.08.30 05:20:00 -
[262]
Ok.
I just launched a withdraw request to pull from my savings account.
Let's see how long this takes...
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.08.30 07:05:00 -
[263]
I find two things hillarious about this "bank" 1) ISD were moronic enough to post a story, totally unsubstantiated, about a bank that has no backing whatsoever.
2) This thread has gone on this long.
It's a scam. Anyone with half a brain can see that it's a scam. Not sure why all the discussion is necessary.
As for ISD telling people to 'apply' if they want more accuracy. That's not how it works. If you're going to publish "news" you should check your facts before you publish. Duh.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.30 12:45:00 -
[264]
I already smell the next "bank" around the corner ...
Bank script wanted
-- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Dzil
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.30 22:45:00 -
[265]
So has there been a follow up story yet? Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.31 16:45:00 -
[266]
You must be new here ... -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.09.01 06:34:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar Ok.
I just launched a withdraw request to pull from my savings account.
Let's see how long this takes...
The withdrawal was processed 20 hours after my original request.
Not ATM quick, but the ISK did end up in my account within a day....
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Londo Cebb
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Posted - 2010.09.01 06:37:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar
The withdrawal was processed 20 hours after my original request.
Not ATM quick, but the ISK did end up in my account within a day....
Screenshots and your API key or it never happed.
On second thought, an alt is an alt is an alt.....
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Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.09.01 22:55:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Londo Cebb
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar
The withdrawal was processed 20 hours after my original request.
Not ATM quick, but the ISK did end up in my account within a day....
Screenshots and your API key or it never happed.
On second thought, an alt is an alt is an alt.....
You have a valid point. I can tell you that I'm just a customer and I have ISK on the line (which is the truth) and there is no way for anybody to verify one way or the other.
Welcome to EVE...
I'd like to see a bank work in EVE. I was wiling to drop 50m ISK into it to see if this was the flavor of the month scam (probably) or the start of the first bank in New Eden to actually work the way it should. So, I view this as an experiment to see if someone can pull it off. I fully expect to lose EVERY isk I put into this venture. If it actually works, I'll be pleasently suprised.
Well, not every isk, since I've pulled 10m back out.
To date I'm not real thrilled with the customer service from TBOE. They are slow to respond and they have been way too quiet on this forum, given the hype that TBOE got from the misguided press release. Then again, since it seems that nothing they say would make anybody satisified that this isn't a scam, I can see why they wouldn't bother posting. Kinda' chickens*** to stuff ones head in the sand, rather than stand up and defend your dream / scam.
Screen shots can be faked. You need my API key like I need another hole in my skull..
So, I'll just keep on reporting the results of my experiment. Take it or leave it..
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.09.02 09:08:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar
You have a valid point. I can tell you that I'm just a customer and I have ISK on the line (which is the truth) and there is no way for anybody to verify one way or the other.
Welcome to EVE...
I'd like to see a bank work in EVE. I was wiling to drop 50m ISK into it to see if this was the flavor of the month scam (probably) or the start of the first bank in New Eden to actually work the way it should. So, I view this as an experiment to see if someone can pull it off. I fully expect to lose EVERY isk I put into this venture. If it actually works, I'll be pleasently suprised. Well, not every isk, since I've pulled 10m back out.
And yet their statistics page shows the exact same two figures like it did - what? - 2-3 weeks ago:
TOTAL ASSETS ACCOUNTS LOANS $3,968,303,050.15 98 0
I'm not saying you didn't invest and withdraw your money (or haven't received it). It just shows that this "bank" doesn't even use the minimum possible automatism.
As much as I also like to see a working bank in EVE, this one clearly couldn't be it right from the start just for technical reasons - intended scamming or not aside. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
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Londo Cebb
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Posted - 2010.09.02 11:32:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar Take it or leave it..
I'll take it for what it is, Just your word.
I don't believe anything "just" because someone says it. Even a real screen shot or your api key wouldn't be proof that this isn't a scam. Any good scammer will know that if your shell out a little isk (like your 10 mill) there is a good chance to get the mark to re invest. "Oh I got my 10 mill back I guess I'll put in 100mill, after all he paid me back before." Let alone the possibility your an alt of the OP. Welcome to EVE...
Please don't take it personally. The most trusted players in EVE plus 1000 other players could post here or in any other "Bank" thread, to say that withdrawals are working and interest is being paid, and it would still not convince me to send my money.
P.S. There are no banks in EVE, only pawn shops that are subsidized by people who don't like keeping there isk in there wallet. (BPO loans are almost the exception to this.)
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Ubi Dellmar
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Posted - 2010.09.03 07:34:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Londo Cebb
Originally by: Ubi Dellmar Take it or leave it..
I'll take it for what it is, Just your word.
I don't believe anything "just" because someone says it. Even a real screen shot or your api key wouldn't be proof that this isn't a scam. Any good scammer will know that if your shell out a little isk (like your 10 mill) there is a good chance to get the mark to re invest. "Oh I got my 10 mill back I guess I'll put in 100mill, after all he paid me back before." Let alone the possibility your an alt of the OP. Welcome to EVE...
Please don't take it personally. The most trusted players in EVE plus 1000 other players could post here or in any other "Bank" thread, to say that withdrawals are working and interest is being paid, and it would still not convince me to send my money.
P.S. There are no banks in EVE, only pawn shops that are subsidized by people who don't like keeping there isk in there wallet. (BPO loans are almost the exception to this.)
Ain't Photoshop grand.
I've got my 40m ISK in the "bank" now. The only way that number will go up for the forseeable future will be dividends. I strongly recommend that nobody put any ISK into this venture until:
1) They have a solid history of returns.
2) Have corrected the crap that is their website. That is if this is a legitimate bank. If it's a scam, then I guess the improvements will be long in coming. Since, as a scam, this one has probably ran out of steam and further effort will have minimal rewards. Unless they can get another poorly researched main page story out of the news organs.
It's a forum. I don't take much of anything personally in a forum.
Trust is a hard won item in EVE. It's the one thing you can't buy in Jita, even on contract. Everybody in EVE started out with none. Me, you, TheBankOfEve... So, if I honestly report on my experiment, perhaps I earn a bit. If TBOE does what they say they are going to do, perhaps they earn a bit. If they jack everybody over, they should lose what little trust they may have earned.
I personally think that a functioning banking system would add additional texture to EVE. So, until CCP builds the proper framework for a banking system in EVE, this is what we have. So, I'm spending 40m ISK to see what happens.
So, regardless of which way this turns out, I'll continue to post the results of my gamble. Win or lose.
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