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omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:07:00 - [1] Everyone has heard the saying in the title. It is definitely in the top 5 rules of EVE. But there is room for interpretation in it. I have a friend who flies ships which he could only rebuy once or maybe twice before being out of isk. He thinks he is sticking to the "rule", but I don't think he is - he can't long term sustain those ships if he takes more than a couple of losses. Conversely, I have tens of billions of isk but I'm still leery about flying T2 cruisers. Back when I had "only" hundreds of millions of isk, only T1 fitted T1 cruisers would do in anything but a low-risk pvp situation. Where do you draw the line? How affordable is affordable enough to be lost?
Gashblight	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:12:00 - [2] If you don't need it to make your money it's expendable. Stock piling billions to fly BS and below is not needed. As long as you can afford to replace your next ship or 3 your good to go imho. just my 2 cents
Mordinn The Bones Brigade	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:17:00 - [3] I think your friend is doing it the right way. Those expensive ships are part of what makes PvP interesting. Fly the ship like you have only one. It makes the eventual loss that much more of an event and it might even make you a better pilot by the challenge of keeping your ship intact. It's relatively cheap to field baseline ships, so fly an expensive ship once or twice and you can still get back into the PvP thing after in the cheaper ships. If you're in the position of buying those ships, then most likely you know how to earn the ISK to get back into good cheap ships quickly. ---
Pesky LaRue Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Gashblight As long as you can afford to replace your next ship or 3 your good to go imho. pretty much this. I have a few ships that I probably couldn't afford to replace immediately if I lost (although would still we willing to use them, if needed) but that's what ratting/plexing is for. As long as I have a few cruiser/bc/bs to jump into and get back into a fight, that's all I need. .
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:23:00 - [5] I think you should fly something that will make your blood pump.
Apollo Gabriel Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:23:00 - [6] I almost exclusively lose, so I have a different take on this rule. I buy and fit ships, I have a hangar or three full of fit ships. I consider them lost already, my wallet is purely what I can buy now, I don't think about replacement. =============================== \|\| Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. \|\| ===============================
Malaclypse Muscaria	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:24:00 - [7] Edited by: Malaclypse Muscaria on 20/08/2010 23:25:05 It's in the eye of the beholder... as with other simplistic rules-of-thumb, ultimately it comes down to how you define the terms, in this case what you personally define as "affordable", and your own particular means / ease / savvy / time / willingness to grind and make more ISK to replace losses. As well as your own subjective comfort zone with your savings, and your own aversion to risk. In other words, take it as a "rough guideline", not a "rule".
Gashblight	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:24:00 - [8] Edited by: Gashblight on 20/08/2010 23:24:35 dp
Irae Ragwan	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:39:00 - [9] I've not stockpiled more than a few billion isk since I left the napsec scene. If you're in lowsec you more than likely have the ability to gtfo (assuming you fly smart and you're in a bc or smaller hull), so losses aren't as definite a thing as in nullsec unless you're actively warring with someone and going into battles you know will cause serious losses. I also have an alt or two to make bread if I go totally broke (hasn't happened in months, but it does happen from time to time). I don't really pay attention to price as much as I do how my ship will be viewed by a potential target. If you roam lowsec with a t3 or an expensive t2 ship you're not likely to find any small engagements, just blobs that want your killmail. I usually fly cheap hulls (cyclone, cane, drake, brutix, and a few cruisers) just because it prompts a lot of people to engage with what they assume to be a vastly superior ship. TLDR: Fly fast and smart and price isn't as big an issue. If you're getting into more attrition than just hunting, you need to base what you fly on your income rather than your stockpile because eventually you will go bankrupt.
VanNostrum	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:47:00 - [10] I have 50 mil in my wallet and flying a T2 cruiser for PVP if i lose my ship i'll be ratting for a couple hours to buy the T2 cruiser again Any T2 cruiser is ideal for PVP for me, can't change that whether I'm rich or poor
Jypsie	Posted - 2010.08.20 23:48:00 - [11] Total est. Value of ship < 20% liquid ISK Roughly.
Hari Markkus Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:05:00 - [12] Compared to the cost replacing the stuff inside my head the cost of replacing the ship is negligible. So I fly whatever ship the fc asks me to. I take it the OP would need hundreds of billions in his wallet before he would undock with a set of expensive implants.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:06:00 - [13] Edited by: omgfreemoniez on 21/08/2010 00:08:26 What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards. Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs" Any tips on getting over this? EDIT: I realise I take the Internet Spaceships far too seriously, and in fact consider them Serious Business
Pesky LaRue Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:08:00 - [14] Originally by: omgfreemoniez What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards. Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs" Any tips on getting over this? so, on the off-chance this isn't a troll-post, you mean apart from the obligatory "HTFU" and "it's just a game"? I get annoyed at my own stupidity when I lose a ship and that moment passes quickly. If you get emotionally hurt by losing any kind of pixels in any kind of game, then i refer you again to paragraph one of my post. .
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:10:00 - [15] Originally by: omgfreemoniez What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards. Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so **ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs" Any tips on getting over this? Sounds like you need some prescription drugs to manage your emotional state for when you play then. Not logging in for 3 days with a constant barrage of 'what ifs' going through your head over a t1 cruiser loss sounds kinda unhealthy. Originally by:** CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: CCP Adida Moved from missions and complexes. All other game discussions are only aloud in OOP.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: omgfreemoniez What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards. Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs" Any tips on getting over this? so, on the off-chance this isn't a troll-post, you mean apart from the obligatory "HTFU" and "it's just a game"? I get annoyed at my own stupidity when I lose a ship and that moment passes quickly. If you get emotionally hurt by losing any kind of pixels in any kind of game, then i refer you again to paragraph one of my post. It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it. Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say).
aetherguy881 Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:27:00 - [17] I guess the quote can be reworded to "Don't fly what you're not willing to lose." I usually scale it to what my income happens to be at the time. However I'm sporadic when I buy stuff sometimes... ------------------- Always remember this about EVE: Life is cheap, or 15 bucks a month.
Malaclypse Muscaria	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:32:00 - [18] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of your killboard stats. kb stats? Ignore them and find the cherry in the fun of the pew-pew had. Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of the respect of your corpmates I suspect this actual "loss of respect" you are afraid of is in your head, not from your corpmates. And if they actually do try to disrespect you for whatever losses you've had, then they are idiots you shouldn't bother relating to in the first place. If you do put up with them nonetheless, then you are disrespecting yourself. Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of confidence in your abilities The way to improve your abilities is through practice and learning, and the best lessons are learned out of losses. Embrace them. Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death See above. You only lose your dignity if you stick around with whatever morons are trying to ridicule you for your losses. Screw them and move on. Originally by: omgfreemoniez And on top of that you lose a ship too Don't worry, there's many many more where it came from
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:41:00 - [19] fly what you can afford to me means you can replace the ship 2x if you lose it. However, I think that's also tempered with an evaluation of the likelihood that you are going to lose it. No reason to fly a decked out T3 into a situation that will likely kill it. Fly T2 in that case. When you do have a reasonable idea of the risks tho, I find its a lot more fun to fly the effective ships. I have about 150 pvp kills in t3 ships and haven't lost one yet. I will someday though, heck my proteus was in structure just a few days ago :P
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.21 00:50:00 - [20] What "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" actually means is... ..."ISK invested into a ship should be considered lost already, so don't invest more in any one ship you fly than you could stand to earn back without throwing a hissy-fit". _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Sajad	Posted - 2010.08.21 01:30:00 - [21] All ships are disposable if you HTFU.
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.08.21 05:37:00 - [22] If losing your ship means you have to 'go back' whether going back means dropping out of FW, the pvp fighting you are in(whatever role you had-you go down a level or levels), or lose out on a significant portion of income then IMO you couldn't afford to lose it. How many times that is true for you is dependent on how likely it is you will lose the ship, IE if the loss was a mission boat you could probably make out with only having enough isk to replace it 1x then go back to making isk as you should have a better understanding of your limitations/mistake and not do it again or significantly reduce the chances of it. The higher the turnover rate with ship losses the more isk you need to back it up for replacements unless you are willing to drop down to smaller/cheaper ships or less risky methods of play. The latter meaning IMO you couldn't afford to lose it but everyone can have their own metrics for such a thing. -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members.
Su Baru	Posted - 2010.08.21 05:59:00 - [23] There should be two types of ships in your hangar #1 ISK Machine (ONE that only makes isk to buy the 2nd type of ship and modules) #2 Wonder what type of trouble I can get into with this (undock..pewpewpew) Meaning there is a BS or BC or HAC that only runs missions, anoms whatever makes you ISK.. second type is the OMGIwannaHasFUN ship.. Draw the line before you take ship #1 out for #2's activities.. Cruisers and below are the best type imo, T1 with a few T2 fittings.
EviaDark	Posted - 2010.08.21 06:18:00 - [24] Edited by: EviaDark on 21/08/2010 06:24:19 What the poster above me said, only I make isk through trading so it's really just one ship Also, I am in agreement with your "friend"
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse	Posted - 2010.08.21 06:28:00 - [25] If I'm willing to undock with it then I can afford to lose it. It is more about attachment for me than money. Same with drones, in fact I think I've gotten more emotional about losing drones than ships. My poor little drones...
Magnus Sunbeam	Posted - 2010.08.21 06:36:00 - [26] Originally by: omgfreemoniez It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it. Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say). It makes you feel **** and not want to log in. You've 10s of billions and still fret over this? Maybe PVP just isn't for you. Best to stick to other activities and watch the wallet grow fatter. Also, it's justa game. Why are you getting worked up over something make believe in real life?
Hentes Zsemle	Posted - 2010.08.21 07:15:00 - [27] Edited by: Hentes Zsemle on 21/08/2010 07:19:43 If you fly something which is too cheap, pvp doesn't have a meaning, you don't care about your ship, you don't want to save it at all costs and you don't thing about the possible outcomes of a fight. It also restrects your options, since a cheap ship usually means its weak, but surely lacks something the T2 counterpart has. You are less likely to loose a T2 ship than a T1. If have never been pvping, starting with T1 small and cheap ships is good, otherwise they are not going to let you to have the most fun possible in pvp. sry, to reply to the op.. 1-10% of total wealth per ship, its highly dependant on what kind of ship it actually is
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.21 07:32:00 - [28] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Everyone has heard the saying in the title. It is definitely in the top 5 rules of EVE. But there is room for interpretation in it. I have a friend who flies ships which he could only rebuy once or maybe twice before being out of isk. He thinks he is sticking to the "rule", but I don't think he is - he can't long term sustain those ships if he takes more than a couple of losses. Conversely, I have tens of billions of isk but I'm still leery about flying T2 cruisers. Back when I had "only" hundreds of millions of isk, only T1 fitted T1 cruisers would do in anything but a low-risk pvp situation. Where do you draw the line? How affordable is affordable enough to be lost? T1 cruiser gangs can certainly be fun because you don't have to care so much, but there is also a fun element in flying T2 because it makes you determined to win. How you fly your ship and how you dictate a engagement becomes a lot more important. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
flakeys DRAMA Inc	Posted - 2010.08.21 08:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder I think you should fly something that will make your blood pump. In some cases even a kessie could do that
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.08.21 08:29:00 - [30] I prefer 'don't put all your eggs in one basket'. Pretty obvious though, isn't it? People really need telling?
Hori To Masuat'aa Matari	Posted - 2010.08.21 10:17:00 - [31] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of the respect of your corpmates <---- get a new corp
Klandi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.08.21 10:50:00 - [32] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say). It makes you feel **** and not want to log in. I feel the need to analyse this .... There are things you do to yourself that erodes confidence, and things you believe others are doing to you AND remember for vast amounts of time, that adds to and produces the same result. I would put you in the catagory of a victim disorder. These are a specialised group of people that believe everyone in RL and beyond considers them a loser and a waste of space. And guess what .... you spend alot of time and lose sleep making that into a reality. When in fact. This is a fun game - and when your having fun sometimes you put together stuff that some others might disagree with ...so what? Others do not have good memories for your "mishaps" - they are too busy with there OWN fun to remember your mistakes. You do ALL of this to yourself. And you will suffer from it UNTIL you decide that life is too short (and in some that happens at 50) Then, magically you stop worrying and start living for the moment. Please adjust your thought processes. The benefit will be a more positive and happier person. If you dont know how - just convo me Here endth the lesson ... flame on
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.08.21 11:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 21/08/2010 11:02:46 I don't live by "don't fly what you can't afford to lose", but rather "consider every ship bought already lost". When I buy a 100 MISK ship, those 100 MISK are already spent and are never coming back. When I lose the ship (when, not if), I don't lose anything, as I don't have those ISK anymore. In fact, I get a free gift from SIC, likely to be spent on the next ship. Or, as I use to say: If you don't lose your ship, you're not playing EVE right. Complaining you lost your ship in EVE is like complaining you got killed in Quake. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real!
Private Bank	Posted - 2010.08.21 11:42:00 - [34] OP is pretty extreme... If u can't use t2 items its ok to use t1, but i mean u have trained many days for t2 items, so why the hek not use them when u can? Always use the cheapest (yea t2 are cheap) of the best.
Frozean	Posted - 2010.08.21 11:57:00 - [35] A general rule i follow is, dont fly in pve ships You cant replace once. Dont fly ships in pvp ships you cant replace 10000 times, unless you blob. So in short, until i have around 100b isk in my wallet, ill probably just fly bantams and ibis in pVP. Unless some 1000 people alliance asks me to murder a mining hulk. Then the chances of losing your ship lowers dramatically, and you can allow for using a T1 cruiser with only 10b in the wallet.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:00:00 - [36] Edited by: BrundleMeth on 21/08/2010 12:06:44 Originally by: Apollo Gabriel I almost exclusively lose, so I have a different take on this rule. I buy and fit ships, I have a hangar or three full of fit ships. I consider them lost already, my wallet is purely what I can buy now, I don't think about replacement. Cool just like me. I suck at PVP but I got like 125 fit ships sitting right now. About 20 are worth a Billion and several worth 2 Billion. The real expensive ones I like to sit in and take screenshots... Originally by: omgfreemoniez It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it. Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say). It makes you feel **** and not want to log in. Thats crazy talk. Loss of confidence in your abilities? What abilities it's a stupid game is all...
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:02:00 - [37] Just make sure you got 2-3 pvp ships and one pve(ratting/anomaly) ship. You can easily earn back the isk for your lost ship in a week. So if you lose one, you have a backup ship and the means to earn the lost one back in no time. Also if you lose more then one ship a week, lol. I can agree a bad week can set you back, but there's also times you don't lose one in weeks. Also, if you're smart isk should NEVER be a problem. 5-10mins a day makes me around 2-4bil a month. That's enough to lose a carrier every month :P And if you every have a ****y week, just fly some cheap tackle frigs. One 0.0 rat can pay for 5 of those. ------
Cozmik R5 Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:05:00 - [38] Tens of billions and still leery to fly T2 cruisers... I'm not quite sure this game is right for you. My suggestion: r-click Cozmik R5 in-game, select "give money", 1 or 2 billion will do. ____________________ Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
RRNL Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:07:00 - [39] A cheap ship is a dead ship T1 = crap dont fly it unless u want to suicide U handle a ship with more love if its fitted correctly what ever faction mods it takes. It gives u more survival capabilities. Eample, dramiel with b-type mwd
Cozmik R5 Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:12:00 - [40] Originally by: RRNL Example, Dramiel with b-type mwd Awesome until it meets a faction-fit Rapier ____________________ Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Natalie Caladan Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:13:00 - [41] I hardly have ISK and I always fly the most expensive multi billion stuff I have in missions.
Cozmik R5 Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Complaining you lost your ship in EVE is like complaining you got killed in Quake. Damn, why didn't I think of that ?! ____________________ Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Awesome Possum Gallente Isk Relocation Services	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:19:00 - [43] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Edited by: omgfreemoniez on 21/08/2010 00:08:26 What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards. Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs" Any tips on getting over this? EDIT: I realise I take the Internet Spaceships far too seriously, and in fact consider them Serious Business you need to go lose cruisers until this stops being an issue. I still have "what if" thoughts about a lot of fights, but raging over a pvp loss isn't something that should happen. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
HottyChick	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:28:00 - [44] I dont see the point in stockpiling isk lol. I always have few ships rdy to jump in and thats it, once i lose all my pvp ships and im broke i just do some ratting and back to pew pew. I always have some emergency isk to buy gtc ect but Im not stockpiling isk-imagine this game goes to hell 1 day and than what you gonna do with ur bilions? And yes many games ended up badly and ppl lost assets so you cant tell how long eve will last. It used to be better(grid loading,lag,fleet fights,massive dc's) than its now so really instead of improving its getting worse with each expansion.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.08.21 12:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Frozean A general rule i follow is, dont fly in pve ships You cant replace once. Dont fly ships in pvp ships you cant replace 10000 times, unless you blob. So in short, until i have around 100b isk in my wallet, ill probably just fly bantams and ibis in pVP. Unless some 1000 people alliance asks me to murder a mining hulk. Then the chances of losing your ship lowers dramatically, and you can allow for using a T1 cruiser with only 10b in the wallet. I have read you post similar things a couple of times - and frankly, if this is the way you want to ~~live~~ play, nothing against you. But I don't see the point in this. Sure, the "don't fly..." rule is a good rule of thumb to prevent people from totally ruining themselves by flying their multibilion missioning ship into a gatecamp. But seriously - if you have a few hundred MISKs, why not take a throwaway 10M cruiser for a ride? You (and anyone else of course) might have moral or other principal issues against PvP, but lack of money should never be it. I have never held a bilion of my own money in the wallet. I don't run level 4 missions or carrier anomalies or any of those fancy "100M per hour" activities. I don't play or manipulate the market. I don't have any alts I use to make ISK. I don't sell PLEXes. Although I am the CEO, I never use corporation money for myself. Yet I am still able to lose a well-fit battleship roughly once a week, and random cruisers, BCs and smaller ships inbetween. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real!
Shepard66	Posted - 2010.08.21 23:39:00 - [46] I learned this rule the hard way... Maybe ship insurances should cover a % of the fitting costs?
Ryhss Caldari Ominous Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.21 23:47:00 - [47] If I can replace the ship in a couple of missions, I don't mind losing it. [url=http://eve-kill.net?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=401687] [/url] What the smeging smeg?! Originally by: Gneeznow damn goons what a bunch of jerks!
MissyDark	Posted - 2010.08.23 07:04:00 - [48] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Everyone has heard the saying in the title. Let me sop you right here. This rule is crap. If you fly only what you can afford to lose then there is no emotion. Only when there is a lot at stake you can actually feel your hands shake.
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.08.23 07:20:00 - [49] i can always afford an ibis lol x EVE Garden
Omal Oma Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.08.23 11:16:00 - [50] What you can afford to replace doesn't mean what you have in your wallet. ________________________________________________ <--- My in-game me.
Zack Lonewolf	Posted - 2010.08.23 11:53:00 - [51] i fly fully t2 fit rifters, approx 10mill each all in rigged with good ammo. not only do they cost so little i can do the silly 1/100 chance of winning engagements, when you do win against a big shiney ship the victory is all the sweeter
Riho Gallente Drop of Blood	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:44:00 - [52] When i buy and fit a ship.. the isk is gone... i dont even insure my ships because i cant be arsed :P only been upset once when i lost a heavy faction fit astarte to a nano neut/nos domi(back in the day when those things flew 7km/s or so) 10min after i had it fit..mostly **ed off because i didnt check local... the guy landed on the station as i undocked and i couldnt redock for 30 sec.... bump and there it was :( all you have to know is the risks you take when engaging. atm i fly BCs with t2 fits mostly. these ships are great and i can be pretty suicidal with em, because the loss is not that big. with my faction BS i have done some really insane things and come on top (going 2vs10+(i didnt even know what ships most of the enemies had and even if id get backup from corpies)), but allways had escape planned if it all went up :) tldr: fly what you think is right for you and the risks you are gonna take. be ready to lose it 2 minz after undocking it. ---------------------------------- Fighting for something**
Mallui Mallard	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:48:00 - [53] I ignored that rule so many times, I'd be in such a bad position if I lost ship. I bought my first BS (an apocalypse) when I had BS II and Large Energy Turret I. With all the (cheapest) mods fitted I was left with a ballance so low I couldn't even afford insurance for it. I eventually got befriended 4 same minded individuals on the noob corp and we began to run L4 missions together with one taking turns salvaging. We made enough to get a corp going and I made my first billion a few weeks later ratting on 0.0. I still have that first Apoc I bought, it's one of my most prized possessions. Properly insured, of course. I believe the proper rule should be "Fly whatever the **** you want as long as you have money to buy and fit a BS".
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.23 13:17:00 - [54] Most people view it in terms of how long it would take to earn the money back and how much chance there is of you losing it, so it really depends on your earning potential and where you operate. Most 0.0 dwellers for example can afford to lose a t2 fitted pvp ship at any giving time as it will generally only take them a day to earn the money back ratting. High sec mission runners can afford to lose faction fitted bs (as they aren't really worth suiciding). People with large passive incomes can afford to lose officer fitted faction ships. Noobs doing level 1 missions in starter systems can afford to lose meta 1 fitted fully insured t1 frigates. Of course for everyone (except the passive billionaire) this relies on having a ship to make the isk, which you can't afford to lose regardless of other factors ( i keep a lvl 4 mission ship in empire just in case all else goes pear shaped). Every thing else is expendable to some degree. The whole thing also depends on what you are getting out of the game. To me the idea of having tens of billions of isk and not being willing to risk losing a t2 cruiser is ridiculous, to others me only having no isk and 1 ratting ship to my name after 6 years playing the game would be ridiculous 9i have been in that situation many times). Some people view isk as a way of keeping score, others view it simply a pvp ship in another state.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.08.23 14:52:00 - [55] When it comes to risking your ship, you have to decide if the risk is worth the reward. When you do lose a ship, try to figure out why you lost it and try and avoid that, (if possible) in the future. Dont fly drunk. Only ship losses i regret are the ones where i wasnt paying attention to my surroundings, (i.e. slowboating through losec thinking i was safe), and going solo in my manticore in lo/nulsec after coming home from the pub, (i have done this multiple times and i think i have learnt my lesson). Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2010.08.23 15:55:00 - [56] "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" does not mean don't fly what you can't replace. It means don't fly something which you absolutely can not and MUST NOT lose. Any ship that will result in you having to "start over" if you lose is a ship that you shouldn't undock in. This mostly applies to newer players who, for some reason, decide to undock in an untanked T1 hauler with all of their worldly possessions in their cargo bay. Bad decision. This also applies to people who decide to pour all of their money into an officer fitted battleship without having a stand by BS for running level 4 missions, or some other way to make money should you lose your uber BS. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Rocky Deadshot	Posted - 2010.08.23 18:59:00 - [57] I fly high sec missions alot on my main, and mine on my alt (although he is starting to train to also salvage and do combat) I have alot of isk right now and am comfortable with a ship fetish i have where i buy new ships just to test them out. Typically I can comfortably buy anything I can fly, but I do remember, back in the day, when i bought a drake and only had maybe enough isk to buy 2 or 3 more. I was a little concerned, but generally my perception is, if your a high sec carebear you only need to be able to replace it about twice for it to be a good investment. I also look at how much isk the ship should bring in through missions, and take into consideration my EFT fit on the tank and dps of the ship. I dont mind spending up to about 40% of my current cash in wallet to get a ship if i know the tank is good enough for any lvl 4 and the dps is better than my current ship. (ie when i get a ratter or fit out a T3) Really this rule applies to everyone in differnt degrees, a low/null sec or wh individual will probably want to refrain from purchesing something unless he can replace it like 8 times. But for carebears like me (or people with a pretty hefty ship collection the could sell) only being able to replace it twice is a good call. imho
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.08.23 21:14:00 - [58] I used to observe that rule religiously. Nowadays I don't. I fly whatever the hell I like, whenever the hell I like and if I lose it... well, I'll just work until I have the ISK for a new one. Assuming I don't already have it. that's not good strategy if your corporation is engaged in a major campaign and you need to be able to resupply quickly but if, like me, you live a reasonably peaceful existence, then you can afford to be a bit more gung-ho. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.23 21:59:00 - [59] I always found the "replace it x # of times" rule a bit misleading. Just think of it like this. If you lose that ship, how long will it take for you to replace it? Will you gripe about losing that many minutes or hours of work?
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:04:00 - [60] Fly blackbirds: jam your enemies from 100km the only thing that can stop you running away is an arazu. Fly rifters: have buddies. 10x rifters will beat 1x hurricane if range and speed are kept up. Hurricane suffers heavier isk. loss. likewise 20x rifters will massacare 1x zealot - if done right before the rifter who gains the first tackle gets killed. This should keep you happy for a while
Boogie Bobby	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:21:00 - [61] I prefer to have a buffer in my wallet of a few hundred mil and any pvp activities should balance with what's coming in in the long term. It should be a natural balance that doesn't force me into carebearing excessively after losses.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:27:00 - [62] Originally by: Magnus Sunbeam Originally by: omgfreemoniez It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it. Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say). It makes you feel **** and not want to log in. You've 10s of billions and still fret over this? Maybe PVP just isn't for you. Best to stick to other activities and watch the wallet grow fatter. Also, it's justa game. Why are you getting worked up over something make believe in real life? Try a faction-fit Machariel / supercap next time --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:50:00 - [63] Originally by: Magnus Sunbeam Originally by: omgfreemoniez It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it. Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say). It makes you feel **** and not want to log in. You've 10s of billions and still fret over this? Maybe PVP just isn't for you. Best to stick to other activities and watch the wallet grow fatter. Also, it's justa game. Why are you getting worked up over something make believe in real life? lol I like PvPing I just don't like losing. So far I've been pretty successful at keeping the two mutually exclusive (99.5% eff, woohoo!).
Xzar Fyrarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.08.23 23:13:00 - [64] IF you're having fun, there is no risk involved in losing. If you're not, then you need to worry. I don't care what ships I lose anymore or how I lose them. Albeit, some situations are less favorable. I can replace anything I lose at this point. Only problem is, 90% of the time I'm just too lazy to put the Effort in. Not like it requires effort to rat in 0.0 or NinjaSalvage/DoMyOwn missions... is just boring. ------------------------------------------------ One Cannot Fully Appreciate Peace Until They Have Experienced True Pain. ------------------------------------------------- - Xzar Fyrarr ;
Akiba Penrose Banana Airlines	Posted - 2010.08.23 23:25:00 - [65] A good fight is priceless!
Frisky Minx KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp	Posted - 2010.08.23 23:51:00 - [66] I don't fly anything I found long ago I can cause more destruction of assets with the market than any 40 jump roam ever did. And yes I find this more exciting than F1,2,3 Different play style, but its a sandbox, if I want pure isk damage, I don't even undock, just open my wallet and slay some idiot marketeers / manufacturers...
Joshua Wulfe	Posted - 2010.08.24 18:59:00 - [67] Dont fly what you cant afford to loose? it's fu'king FREE to loose a ship :P Even if I am ****-broke I take whatever I have out (except the ratting-boat) If the needs arise to replace a ship I just rat for a while, buy whatever, and then I loose it again- Cba to hoard a couple of hundreds of billions before I go at it
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.08.24 19:16:00 - [68] Honestly, I like to keep a nice cushion in my wallet. When it dips too low, I go back to more serious isk making, be it missioning and getting the salvage to my indy alt or exploration. That said, I also keep spare ships ready and able. If I lose one, well, I have a backup so I can get back to the fight.
Krecian Gallente Essence of Decay Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.08.24 20:23:00 - [69] Usually, I mentally calculate the full value of the mods and difference in insurance money to be no more than 1/3rd the total value in my wallet. Anotherwords, if I can't make three identicle ships out of that amount, I won't risk it in PvP. Mission boats I'm a bit more relaxed on. I'll fly something that represents half the value in my wallet, but I also don't mission during wars or shoot at ninjas either, so I feel the additional risk is justified. I think the bottom-line is the rule is open to the interpetation of whoever reads it. It should better read as "don't fly something you'll be upset at losing". --------- "The first rock thrown again, welcome to hell little saint. Mother Gia in slaughter, welcome to paradise soldier." -Nightwish, Planet Hell
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.08.24 20:55:00 - [70] The best way to get over that fear of losing ships is to go out and lose a bunch of them. I have one ship that isn't for combat it's my Navy Domi that I keep back in my mission system as my ultimate fall back money maker. that's the only ship I'd be even the slightest bit upset over losing. The rest of them (and I got a bunch) exist for the express purpose of going out and getting them blown up. My philosophy is that the second I hit the undock button the ship is lost if it comes back it's a bonus. I fly them to kill stuff and while I do enjoy slipping out of an engagement while in structure I'm not going to cry when I'm heading home in my pod. The only loss I've had that made me the slightest bit emo was when I lost my pod with a fresh set of HG slaves. After being ****y for 20 minutes I realized that I was mainly mad at my own stupidity for getting killed in a dumb way and went out and bought a set of low grades. So far I've lost a bit over 150 ships and have managed to turn those losses into almost a thousand killmails. Now up until recently I've only flown T1 (T2 fit of course) but that was a matter of not having trained for any T2 ships so far and the fact that where I do my fighting T1's are the staple ships. I just started adding T2 frigs so I'm sure they'll start showing up on my loss mails soon. Save for your money maker ships exist to be destroyed hopefully after destroying a couple others first. Understand everyone loses ships and when you start PVPing you tend to lose more in more stupid ways. But that's how you learn. Back when I first started I was happy with a 3 to 1 KD ration nowadays I generally get closer to 10 and have averaged out overtime to 6 to 1. Don't get worked up too much on your KB stats. They're fun to watch and can give you good clues on what you're screwing up and how to fix it. And they can tell you a lot about what kind of fighter a pilot is, but you gotta dig a bit deeper than K/D ratios and into the individual battles and what types of kills they get to get a good read on that. Now go buy a bunch of t2 fit ships and pick some fights.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2010.08.24 21:47:00 - [71] Originally by: MissyDark Originally by: omgfreemoniez Everyone has heard the saying in the title. Let me sop you right here. This rule is crap. If you fly only what you can afford to lose then there is no emotion. Only when there is a lot at stake you can actually feel your hands shake. Pft, the only emotion I care about is the satisfaction of winning. It doesn't improve my experience at all to be frustrated/set back by a loss. And cheaper ships make it harder to win, which is way more exciting than flying a boat with strong natural abilities.

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