la lot of players will agree that missle boats have been COMPLETELY overlooked in the PvP fields.

When can the missle ship pilots in the game expect a pirate or faction ship with the HUGE DAMAGE BONUSES that are available for the projectile and hybrid ships???

I like to pvp and would like to get into it a lot more than i am now. Well my main account toon is trained in missles, and I'm sure a lot of players will agree that missle boats have been COMPLETELY overlooked in the PvP fields.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put some thought into a pirate faction missle boat...

How is the game 'balanced' when there are no ships (available for mass purchase) anywhere in the EVE universe that are missle platformed with the 100-200% damage bonuses that are available to projectiles and hybrids?

As soon as I get my drone Marauder.



Except for the Hawk, Hookbill, Vengeance, Caracal, Drake, Sacrilege, and Tengu and did I say Drake? missiles have indeed been COMPLETELY overlooked. And that's not even counting any of the lesser-used ones or the missile ships that aren't known for their use of missiles but still see action (Rook, Damnation, Anathema, Curse).



I actually sort of agree with this but your logic is horrible.

OK.... maybe you missed the part of my post where I asked about the 100-200% damage bonuses on the frigates?

And besides since you brought cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships into it.... show me a single missle platform with 100% damage bonuses..... anywhere in EVE.

As soon as I get my drone Marauder.

OK.... maybe you missed the part...

Where in many dev posts, and other places CCP stated (and has started with some T1 frigs) a bottom up rebalancing of all ships in the game.

Seems to me that maybe just maybe they will be looking at pirate ships as well?

Well... we can only hope... the best missle based frigate i have found is the Hawk ( just my preference, so please dont't take that as I'm trying to state a fact or anything like that)... and lets be honest... it doesn't stand a chance against a pirate ship with 200% damage bonuses.

Sure it does.

-Liang

Ed: Also, why focus on the huge damage bonus with few launcher/turrets? Shouldn't you be looking at effective turrets/launchers?

see what we need hear is a minie/caldari pirate faction and its crazy missiles and no tank.

Some of those pirate frigates can do in excess of 500 dps... You can kill a battleship with them... how can a frigate doing 200 dps compete with that?

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance. And since SOLO PvP is mainly going to be centered around frigates... Well? Where's the balance at?

You are literally clueless about frig PVP. And really, PVP in general. A few comments:
- A 500 DPS frigate is a paper tiger with almost no range.
- I've seen a battleship downed by way less than 200 DPS. I saw a Sentinel do it once. :)
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk/Daredevil is a stalemate. The Daredevil isn't likely to kill the Hawk and the Hawk isn't likely to pin the Daredevil down because of the web bonus.
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk / Enyo is a dead Enyo. :)
- Solo PVP happens in whatever ship you happen to be in. I've done solo PVP in everything from noob ships to carriers.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang

You are nothing but a troll looking to argue.

Come to Amamake tonight - I'm looking to make my 7th PVP video, Amamake Fun VI and you'd make a great member of the cast!



reported for trolling :)... have a nice day.

-Liang

reported for trolling :)... have a nice day.

Ed: Also, why focus on the huge damage bonus with few launcher/turrets? Shouldn't you be looking at effective turrets/launchers?

OK..... You two are missing the ENTIRE point of the post........


Why isnt there a missle platform pirate ship with huge damage bonuses anymore?

Jesus........ FOCUS PEOPLE

Why do you want this when the real focus should be on effective hardpoints and overall PVP effectiveness, other than for homogeneity?

-Liang

Again........ you're off topic.

I suppose EVE is the gathering point for all people with ADD. The original post was talking about the initial damage bonus of the pirate ships just for having the skills to get in the ship and fly it around EVE. Forget the PvP, the skill based damage bonuses, effective hardpoints.....

The post was started to address the SOLE ISSUE of not having a pirate faction ship with a missle platform with 100-200% damage bonuses.

So you're not actually complaining about the overall effectiveness of missile based PVP ships? You're just complaining that Eve isn't homogeneous enough?

-Liang

See? You are here for the purpose of arguing.

Basically.... The best thing i can do is completely retrain my toon to use guns...

CCP preaches fair play and balance... really not seeing it.

This is absolutely false. In fact they preach against it on a regular basis. You will not see a missle based frig doing enyo size dps. The enyo is a short range ship that is locked into its damage type.

You are too focused on a special bonus when it doesn't matter at all. Its about effective turrets/launcher not special ship bonus.

Also the hawk is currently the best AF in the game. Flown correctly it will spank most other frigs. Gain real pvp experience before attempting to debate the finer points.

I would be surprised if the worm doesn't receive some form of damage buff in upcoming frigate balancing.

The "huge" damage bonuses really aren't all you make them out to be. A cruor with heat sink and its 100% bonus does barely over 200 dps. The succubus is under 250. The entire line of pirate frigates is in need of some work.

OK.... maybe you missed the part of my post where I asked about the 100-200% damage bonuses on the frigates? show me a single missle platform with 100% damage bonuses..... anywhere in EVE.

I actually did just that and got jumped by Liang and a couple more. Guess one needs to ask for 1v1 but being in amamake that's not worth much :-)

Not complaining at all, just saying that amamake might not be the best place for soloing. But will come have a look again

Cheers

This thread is now about: Amamake

For the purposes of travel it is better to pretend the Ama-Osso gate does not exist. c/d?

Some of those pirate frigates can do in excess of 500 dps... You can kill a battleship with them... how can a frigate doing 200 dps compete with that?

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance. And since SOLO PvP is mainly going to be centered around frigates... Well? Where's the balance at?

Ok... just so all the nit-pickers and perfectionists in the game are satisfied... I'll make it more clear...


There are no missle platform FRIGATES in the game with the damage bonuses of the Cruor, Daredevil, Dramiel, Succubus...

All platforms are covered EXCEPT missles ( and yes drones).

At any rate, I've never heard of Heretics not honoring an agreed upon 1v1. Certainly not "at night" (US TZ).

-Liang

Actually I fly a Hawk and do very well with it... but the original qustion was basically....... Why is there no longer a missle platform frigate with large damage bonuses? Why did they take it out.... What if i just don't want to use guns? There was a pirate missle boat, and they changed it.... WHY?

You are nothing but a troll looking to argue.

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance.

RankShipsKills
1 Drake308916
2 Tengu115724

More than the top 10 turret ships combined.


I don't see why you need a pirate one when there are the fleet typhoon, navy raven, navy scorpion, and golem

Faction ships aren't supposed to be similar, they're supposed to reflect the traits of their respective factions.

I'd love to see the Succubus and Worm get some rebalancing.

again im going to ask if the OP has looked at the caldari navy hookbill

because the whole point of this thread (as pointless as it is) is a complaint that missile ships dont get the same huge bonuses as gun ships even though theyre just as effective . . . (I get it, seeing a +100% bonus looks cool)

but the base argument is wrong, at frigate level 5 the Caldari Navy Hookbill gives a +100% bonus to kinetic missile damage.

Thats why Guristas pirate boats are drone boats. Because it reflects the use of drones by Guristas pirates.

Right?

Fair point. But let's be complete in our examples. The Drake and the Tengu enjoy kill number like that for a lot reasons, none of which have to do with the fact that they are missile boats. Between the sheet number of Caldari players (a **** ton) and the excellence of those particular designed (perhaps a touch OP), the Tengu and Drake are simply popular designs, used in pretty much all areas of the game. From WH to Hi Sec to gangs and huge blobs/fleets, those hulls are everywhere.

I see what you did there.

Turn 'em into Missile-based ECM boats?

With 200km jamming range. And the Guristas torpedos seem to have incredible range too.

Guess I am confused too, when did the hookbill become a pirate ship?

show me a single missle platform with 100% damage bonuses..... anywhere in EVE.

reported for trolling :)... have a nice day.

Golems are not worth spitting on in solo pvp and we all know it...

lolwhat?

Out of curiosity, do you have any Golem PVP videos? I've done some solo PVP in a Golem and what it did to a BC gang was ******* hilarious.

-Liang

I put those decent parts in my latest vid, but after ABS release Golem is really cool. Also, having that much tank and that many boosters, Golem's ecm vulnerability becomes a lot less pronounced.

ASBs are overpowered by about 75%-100%. Golem is one of those ships capable of abusing this fact thoroughly.

EDIT: Getting a pirate missile-focused BS would be nice, though. My only wish would come to its mobility - we definitely don't need yet another gate hugger, do we?

Guess I am confused too, when did the hookbill become a pirate ship?

I think I'd like to see something that looks kinda like the Raven:

4 launchers, 2 utility (-2 launchers)
7 mids (+1 mid)
6 lows (+1 low)

Bonuses:
Minmatar BS: 10% explosion radius/level
Caldari BS: 10% missile velocity/level

Role Bonus: 100% damage

About the same speed and agility as a fleet Typhoon.

OP as heck.

Btw, you can't have more than 12 lows and mids combined, unless you give up something in highs, which isn't really the case here cause of doubling bonus.

That's a really neat trick considering I was eating Ethiopian food at lunch while you were allegedly jumped by me and more. But yes, if you don't ask for a 1v1 there's no reasonable reason to believe either party is looking for it. At any rate, I've never heard of Heretics not honoring an agreed upon 1v1. Certainly not "at night" (US TZ).

-Liang

Ok....... I love the pirate ships.... BUT... I have a question for CCP...

When can the missle ship pilots in the game expect a pirate or faction ship with the HUGE DAMAGE BONUSES that are available for the projectile and hybrid ships???

CCP are always posting blogs about 'balance' and changing ships to make them more compatible and so called 'even out the playing field'...

Well seems to me that you guys are overlooking a big part of your player base.

Missle boat pilots make up a big part of the players in EVE, so how about a pirate ship that gives the huge damage bonuses to rockets...


I like to pvp and would like to get into it a lot more than i am now. Well my main account toon is trained in missles, and I'm sure a lot of players will agree that missle boats have been COMPLETELY overlooked in the PvP fields.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put some thought into a pirate faction missle boat...

OP as heck.

Btw, you can't have more than 12 lows and mids combined, unless you give up something in highs, which isn't really the case here cause of doubling bonus.

Basically.... The best thing i can do is completely retrain my toon to use guns... because if the big alliances and GMs arent using the ship... then they wont boost it.

Liang Nuren wrote:
I think I'd like to see something that looks kinda like the Raven:

4 launchers, 2 utility (-2 launchers)
7 mids (+1 mid)
6 lows (+1 low)

Bonuses:
Minmatar BS: 10% explosion radius/level
Caldari BS: 10% missile velocity/level

Role Bonus: 100% damage

^^^^ damn I feel like my jump clone came and posted on my thread.

CCP preaches fair play and balance... really not seeing it.

Why isnt there a missle platform pirate ship with huge damage bonuses anymore?

Ok....... I love the pirate ships.... BUT... I have a question for CCP...

When can the missle ship pilots in the game expect a pirate or faction ship with the HUGE DAMAGE BONUSES that are available for the projectile and hybrid ships???

it would be glorious but also MASSIVELY OP.

Well, we do have the Fleet Typhoon. It doesn't have a range bonus so you'll almost certainly be running cruise (yuck). I think I'd like to see something that looks kinda like the Raven:

4 launchers, 2 utility (-2 launchers)
7 mids (+1 mid)
6 lows (+1 low)

Bonuses:
Minmatar BS: 10% explosion radius/level
Caldari BS: 10% missile velocity/level

Role Bonus: 100% damage

About the same speed and agility as a fleet Typhoon.

My only concern is that the damage output would be WTFOP.

-Liang

Nooo can't look like a Raven, pirate faction should look sleeker meaner.. ie mach and NM don't look at all like the ships whom they get their bonuses from

by giving a missile based faction ship a huge damage bonus like the turret ships (as per the op) would in my mind be op.

I would like to see your 500dps frigate fit plz

I could do with a laugh

rise zombie thread and live once more!

Few pirate ships excel in raw DPS actually. They are valued for their neuting (BR) webbing (BR, Serpentis), mobility (Angels) and other gimmicks. Daredevil is like the only ship with huge DPS for its calss (6 effective turrets), and then it still needs its web bonus to shine.

You are correct sir...

So what happened the the Dramiel.... the pirate ship that USED to be a rocket boat?

Like I said... missles are completely overlooked.

How is the game 'balanced' when there are no ships (available for mass purchase) anywhere in the EVE universe that are missle platformed with the 100-200% damage bonuses that are available to projectiles and hybrids?

I say either give us the Drami back... or completely remove the insane damage bonuses all together.

CCP preaches fair play and balance... really not seeing it.

Only the Serpentis stuff has really exceptional dps....

Err, really?

Machariel has 11.66 effective turrets and a damage projection bonus, beating all other projectile boats in paper DPS.
Nightmare "only" has 10 effective turrets, but comes with a damage projection bonus and can more easily fit tachyons.
Vindicator, as you mentioned, has 11 effective turrets, beating all other hybrid boats.

That's 3 out of 5 pirate faction BSs that beat the regular options in DPS.

In fact, it makes you wonder why a bunch of pirates has significantly better stuff than the empires and their respective Navies.

The CNR is the only navy faction ship to flat out OD its t1 counterpart. It also ODs the macharial and nightmare (before the vindi got buffed it ODd that as well) "Effective turrets" is only one of the measures of good DPS, the turrets themselves matter just as much.

Missiles are mainly used for ratting and missions (PvE).
Vast majority of NPC's (the "E" in PvE) are pirates.
Pirates do not attack other pirates when there is an 'other' to shoot.

Hence, no pirate missile spewer. Thought that was known by all.

PS: People pew'ing with missiles are just carebears that are so incredibly lazy that they can't even bother with getting a proper ship!

Missiles are mainly used for ratting and missions (PvE).
Vast majority of NPC's (the "E" in PvE) are pirates.
Pirates do not attack other pirates when there is an 'other' to shoot.

Hence, no pirate missile spewer. Thought that was known by all.

PS: People pew'ing with missiles are just carebears that are so incredibly lazy that they can't even bother with getting a proper ship!

You should check that again.. and if you still see this, post the fits you are using.. I have used all 3 of these and your statement is wrong...

The rattlesnake used to be a DPS rapetrain.
unfortunately it was the one pirate BS that got horribly screwed in the pirate ship changed a few years back and is now relegated to a practically useless pve tanker...

IIRC the old rattler was just a phoon with hybrids and missiles instead of ACs and missiles, what made it such a dps rapetrain?

Wait.... Im sorry... yes the Golem does have the damage bonuses... but comeon..... Golems are not worth spitting on in solo pvp and we all know it...

Ok....... I love the pirate ships.... BUT... I have a question for CCP...

When can the missle ship pilots in the game expect a pirate or faction ship with the HUGE DAMAGE BONUSES that are available for the projectile and hybrid ships???

CCP are always posting blogs about 'balance' and changing ships to make them more compatible and so called 'even out the playing field'...

Well seems to me that you guys are overlooking a big part of your player base.

Missle boat pilots make up a big part of the players in EVE, so how about a pirate ship that gives the huge damage bonuses to rockets...


I like to pvp and would like to get into it a lot more than i am now. Well my main account toon is trained in missles, and I'm sure a lot of players will agree that missle boats have been COMPLETELY overlooked in the PvP fields.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put some thought into a pirate faction missle boat...

see what we need hear is a minie/caldari pirate faction and its crazy missiles and no tank.

used to have 7, possibly 8?, damage bonused torp slots.
out DPSed a navy raven by a decent amount.

7 bonused slots would put it on par with a CNR, not above it. But that said I'm fairly certain it had 6 missile slots and some turret slots (and a hybrid turret damage bonus) I know for a fact it did not have 8, as the only ship in the game with that many was (is?) the alliance tourney prize raven from ages ago.