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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.09.10 21:06:00 -
[361]
 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I think we can add LoW and subsequently Varo Jan 3 digits billions IPO which is still running. We had LYII that was not that small and finished well enough, we also had that Goon CAIDS that was not minimal.
Problem is, "So, we paid our dividend again.... for the 20th month in a row" falls off the page immediately (if it even gets posted). "Bond has run it's course, everyone is now paid off" gets... maybe a couple people who go 'woot, thanks, got my money' then it falls off the page. "Lulz! U guiz got skammed, I gots me some cash!" hangs around for 2 months.
Even if there are more legit offerings than scams, people are going to see the scams far more, so they'll think of them more.
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.09.10 21:47:00 -
[362]
The whole fact that someone doesn't want audit was very fishy to me from the start.Anyone that has something to hide would always avoid audit and even then the risk is very high.
knowledge is power |
Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.11 06:49:00 -
[363]
Originally by: zooming
But really if anyone thought it was a scam why didn't any of you ever start a thread before this and say what you thought??
...
Originally by: zooming
I mean, I had a gut feeling it was a terrible investment but I was lazy and kept the shares, and I got punished for that, no problem, I'll take it.
Despite what you say, you don't appear to be taking it very well. I suggest you re-address your expectations of others here and be prepared to hold your own hand in the future. It should be painfully clear to you now that you're the only person responsible for yourself.
P.S. lol @ you.
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zooming
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:42:00 -
[364]
Cobalt, I really struggle to see the point of your reply.
Playing eve in itself teaches you to hold your own hand and it constantly reinforces you're the only person responsible for yourself.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.09.11 10:22:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Jion Tichy
Am I correct in thinking that 100% of large investments in Eve have turned out to be fraudulent?
BMBE, Grendell, Cosmoray, and Tournsoul all have had or still have multi billion ISK offerings, most of which are over 100 billion.
Atima and Akita T have had offerings in the 40-60 billion range that ended successfully.
edit: Well I'm sure there are some other large offerings but that was before I was active in MD. Newbold, Riethe, Xabier??
Aww man, people don't even remember me . PIF and PSRS ran for a total of 60b, paid a whole bunch of 5% and 10% dividends and eventually liquidated and paid back to investors.
Someone said this earlier and they're absolutely right. Fame fades very quickly in EVE. A few years ago, everyone knew me and I'd get random people I didn't know saying hello in practically every system when I flew through empire. Nowadays, even bigshots like the CSM members didn't know about anything I'd done apart from my work at Massively. It's a different game today, that's for sure.
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
Forbidden Domain
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Posted - 2010.09.11 10:29:00 -
[366]
Edited by: flakeys on 11/09/2010 10:30:38
Don't forget Varo jan with one stop on that list of good returned loans.
Funny people keep remembering people like general newbold , yih and others while they only had a VERRY small amount of isk they ran away with and yet a lot allready forgot curzon dax.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.09.11 12:14:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Grozen
The whole fact that someone doesn't want audit was very fishy to me from the start.Anyone that has something to hide would always avoid audit and even then the risk is very high.
That basicly spells: "Hi, Ima scam ur arse!"
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Yendor Widdershins
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.09.11 12:36:00 -
[368]
Originally by: zooming
But really if anyone thought it was a scam why didn't any of you ever start a thread before this and say what you thought??
A lot of times, people aren't sure. They can only say that they see particular danger signs, and they personally will not invest. And there were a few people who did that in the T4U thread. Also, a lot of it is natural hind-sight. I think I mentioned that the only reason I wasn't a victim is that I was "lucky" enough to always have more urgent needs for me free ISK -- but that doesn't prevent me from retroactively seeing the danger signs.
Originally by: zooming
"Going from running a 9b isk bond directly into running a 200b+ IPO using a character that is a known pirate, with known scammer sympathies, who has never been audited, who to that point had never returned any invested isk, who has the name "Bad Bobby", who belongs to a corp called "The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"..."
So no one was willing to post this info on the MD forum! Or none of you were smart enough to see it, or you were too scared. Shame on all of you, a massive failure by Md.
Are you seriously suggesting that the MD posters should have made a post saying
"Oh my gosh, this fund is run by someone named Bad Bobby!!!!!!!"?
The reason why Bad Bobby is gloating is because almost everything in that paragraph was explicitly mentioned in his fist fundraising post in T4U. It was not secret information that a few people knew about and chose to keep secret; it is information explicitly listed / linked to by Bad Bobby himself.
The one exception is "with known scammer sympathies." I remember reading the relevant comments, but I can't find the thread now. It was the kind of thing that did cause some concern but on the other hand regular dividend payments lulled everyone into trusting him, and besides "The trustees can block him if he does decide to scam".
Quote:
To the established elite, for all your posturing and elitism, and scorn you pour on people asking questions, ask yourselves what have you achieved by enabling this to happen? - it's YOUR collective fault more than anyone else that things like this happen on eve.
Nonsense. There were some questions asked of Bad Bobby. -- see for example -- There were people who publicly proclaimed that they were not going to invest for various risk-related reasons. Do they have an obligation to continually bump the thread with "He might be a scammer!" without any new evidence?
Blame Bad Bobby. Blame the trustees. Blame the investors. Blame yourself. But blaming the people who posted once "I don't think it's worth the risk" is ridiculous.
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2010.09.11 13:37:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Yendor Widdershins
The one exception is "with known scammer sympathies." I remember reading the relevant comments, but I can't find the thread now. It was the kind of thing that did cause some concern but on the other hand regular dividend payments lulled everyone into trusting him, and besides "The trustees can block him if he does decide to scam".
Linky
Actually the bulk of the discussion that led upto that took place on a different forum related to the audit fund.
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.11 14:30:00 -
[370]
Originally by: zooming
Cobalt, I really struggle to see the point of your reply.
Playing eve in itself teaches you to hold your own hand and it constantly reinforces you're the only person responsible for yourself.
You spent a significant amount of your post blaming everyone else for not doing your own work for you. That was my observation.
My point was ... nevermind, I doubt an explanation would help you.
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F90OEX
F9X
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.09.11 17:48:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Jion Tichy
Am I correct in thinking that 100% of large investments in Eve have turned out to be fraudulent?
BMBE, Grendell, Cosmoray, and Tournsoul all have had or still have multi billion ISK offerings, most of which are over 100 billion.
Atima and Akita T have had offerings in the 40-60 billion range that ended successfully.
edit: Well I'm sure there are some other large offerings but that was before I was active in MD. Newbold, Riethe, Xabier??
Aww man, people don't even remember me . PIF and PSRS ran for a total of 60b, paid a whole bunch of 5% and 10% dividends and eventually liquidated and paid back to investors.
Someone said this earlier and they're absolutely right. Fame fades very quickly in EVE. A few years ago, everyone knew me and I'd get random people I didn't know saying hello in practically every system when I flew through empire. Nowadays, even bigshots like the CSM members didn't know about anything I'd done apart from my work at Massively. It's a different game today, that's for sure.
Indeed..... But as you know there are lots of really good honest peeps and stay out of the lime light and run 50bil-500bil+ investments that have started and finished without any kind of problem and you will never hear anything on the market forum about them ( which I support). But I remember you 
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zooming
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Posted - 2010.09.12 11:00:00 -
[372]
Well some great comments there!
It's like youÆre saying I should blame myself for an individual who took my ISK, and blame myself for the group that enabled it.
Look, I don't even care, as far as I'm concerned all investments here are written off as soon as you hand the ISK over, what you get back is a bonus.
My original post and anger was directed at those who kept posting saying "I knew this was bad", it's all calmed down now and we've actually seen some constructive posting come out of this as a result.
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Jan VanRijkdom
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:58:00 -
[373]
Oh darn, I was scammed for 55m....
Good job BB, you bastard....lol
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:23:00 -
[374]
Originally by: zooming
Look, I don't even care, as far as I'm concerned all investments here are written off as soon as you hand the ISK over, what you get back is a bonus.
Since this thread has been bumped back up again I'd just like to say as a relative outsider with no vested interests it is rather telling that almost all the responses are just so timid and almost uncaring. Sure some tried to analyze it but the 99% of posts show such a timid response I wonder if anyone even really cares.
It's like so called MD Elites just bend right over and inviting to be screwed over. But if they get something back well that's just extra ISK to add to the stack.
A case of more money than sense perhaps? Success breeding complacency? Arrogance/lazy. Well whatever it is, I think the obvious lack of any real spirited kind of reaction shows something in itself. I do believe the next few scams are alredy well underway and that reminds me, I'll bring my alt called DoubleYourISKForGreatCarbonBPCO lol
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:29:00 -
[375]
Experienced players know not to let their tears flow on the forums. That doesn't mean the tears don't flow though.
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:51:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 13/09/2010 15:55:54
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Experienced players know not to let their tears flow on the forums. That doesn't mean the tears don't flow though.
Very good point.
Now to see when history repeats itself. I have suspicions about one or two on here so it will be interesting to observe what happens!
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zooming
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:59:00 -
[377]
Lillith, I initially responded with rage, but you must understand that from an investors point of view there is no control, the ISK is gone!!
I can't stay angry forever!
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Cooke
Dashavatara
Clownz'R'Us
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Posted - 2010.09.15 16:18:00 -
[378]
At least for me, when I rightclick it says "give mony to..." not "lend money to" or "invest money with". Just saying.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.15 16:53:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/09/2010 16:53:16
Quote:
It's like so called MD Elites just bend right over and inviting to be screwed over. But if they get something back well that's just extra ISK to add to the stack.
Proper pilots consider their ship lost the second they undock, and rejoyce if they come back home in one piece. They fly what they can afford to lose.
Proper investors consider their investment lost the second they give the money away, and rejoyce if it comes back in one piece. They invest what they can afford to lose.
No need to rage when you accepted the possible outcome beforehand.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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daddys helper
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Posted - 2010.09.15 17:36:00 -
[380]
just be glad you aint the guy who went all in on the last auction
or are you?
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Zooming
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Posted - 2010.09.15 18:25:00 -
[381]
Outcome was accepted, initial rage was directed to other posters.
What was not expected was BB to get away clean with everything!!!
It was supposed to be secured. I would have thought at least something would be left, or BB himself would have some conscience, he could have left like 1 BPO or something so the corp could try and recover.
The greed is shocking.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.09.15 19:05:00 -
[382]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 15/09/2010 19:08:28
Originally by: Zooming
Outcome was accepted, initial rage was directed to other posters.
What was not expected was BB to get away clean with everything!!!
It was supposed to be secured. I would have thought at least something would be left, or BB himself would have some conscience, he could have left like 1 BPO or something so the corp could try and recover.
The greed is shocking.
Anybody who tells you different is a lying ass dog.
Anybody who lost isk in any venture, whether the anger is expressed outwardly or not, is ****ed about it.
The diference is the trolls and rubber-neckers are waiting for all the investors to rage so all the popcorn they are eating digests easier. So....most will not rage on the forums and will, "lol ya got me" or "nice pull dude!! How much you get!?" so that the issue will resolve and they can get on with their gaming lives.
As far as BB giving any isk back. Im sure he has given some to his buds. He is going to need alot though. If he ever used a VOIP(and i know he did in hus alliance) and is well known on it(with that character uh yea), he has burned his use of it for anyting legit. His character is useless so he has to get a new one and since i know who his main is that character is burned too.
Getting back to this channel. The guys here enjoy doing this so much ive finally come to terms that investing will never go away. Even the rediculous investing that screams scam. Too many of the fellars in this channel are sadists and masochists.
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Yendor Widdershins
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.09.15 20:40:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Jovialmadness
His character is useless so he has to get a new one and since i know who his main is that character is burned too.
Care to enlighten us?
Quote:
Getting back to this channel. The guys here enjoy doing this so much ive finally come to terms that investing will never go away.
I'll share my opinion. First, Eve is open-ended enough that it is one of small handful of games that can support an actual in-game business. So naturally people want to experiment and try their hand at it in the way that people try manufacturing, missioning, piracy, even scamming.
Second, there is the daunting question: Given an environment in which scamming is possible, profitable, and subtly encouraged, is it even possible to have a genuinely successful business? Can it be secured and if so how? Can anything resembling trust be established in such an environment? Many people are fascinated by such questions, at least until they become jaded enough to conclude the answer is "no." So the cycle restarts.
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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2010.09.15 20:49:00 -
[384]
Edited by: Doctor Mabuse on 15/09/2010 20:50:37
Originally by: Jovialmadness
He is going to need alot though. If he ever used a VOIP(and i know he did in hus alliance) and is well known on it(with that character uh yea), he has burned his use of it for anyting legit. His character is useless so he has to get a new one and since i know who his main is that character is burned too.
In what way is he burned? With 850 million in the bank I don't think he's too bothered about trying to scam anyone any time soon, or do you mean people will be actively trying to take revenge in game?
I have a feeling his corp will love that...
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Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
Roger Kiyosaki
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.09.16 09:06:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
With 850 million in the bank I don't think he's too bothered about trying to scam anyone any time soon
I wouldn't be too sure of that. If he's really roleplaying scammers, as he claims (and I have no clues to not believe him in that regard), then it won't take too long for him to be back in disguise. He probably already is.
I got burned myself on T4U. I haven't bothered to check how much I've lost in BB's scam, though.
Whatever I have invested is ISK gone with some hope of it generating some passive income. If all investments went down in flames, the only thing gone would be dividends showing up every now and again.
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Commander Godsmack
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Posted - 2010.09.16 19:39:00 -
[386]
*Bumping* -> because i can 
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.16 23:53:00 -
[387]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
Originally by: Cheque Please
HELTER SKELTER
... but I'm confused? If Bad Bobby can just kick the 5 director alt's out of the corp, what security does that even offer? I thought the point was so that he couldn't do just that and run off with everything.
I guess someone royally ****ed up. Lesson to learn kids is, it's not secure unless it's actually secure.
um no the lesson is its not actualy secure unless its in your wallet and your password looks like a copy of War and Peace that has been translated into Farsi and then 25k encripted
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a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.17 00:09:00 -
[388]
Originally by: zooming
OK, so I lost about 3 Bil to this BB scam, and what angers me most (apart from my own stupidity for not selling up) is all the idiots who post on here saying "I knew it" or "It's obvious".
..
So no one was willing to post this info on the MD forum! Or none of you were smart enough to see it, or you were too scared. Shame on all of you, a massive failure by Md.
Because (a) the people who are able to learn from this more or less already know, I mean hell we have Ebanks perpetual whatever the hell it is Ray is doing with it as a prime example to people to keep there own damn money in there own damn wallet unless they honestly think its going to help there corp.
(b) a lot of us do warn about crap like this. the problem is that usualy its glossed over by people who either are planing on trying to cash in on the scam themselves or people like you who think ok I will just ride this out for a while then bail out. . . kind of like the people who think there gettting in on ground floor of a Pyramid scam, to be blunt a lot of them know that its going to go bust in a short order, its just that while they think they are getting in on the "ground floor" of a scam, They forget the place to be in the first damn place is the penthouse. after all the ground floor is quite often the lowest level of the building to start with.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Capt Minor
Amarr
Informix Research
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:48:00 -
[389]
Yendor Widdershins said:
I'll share my opinion. First, Eve is open-ended enough that it is one of small handful of games that can support an actual in-game business. So naturally people want to experiment and try their hand at it in the way that people try manufacturing, missioning, piracy, even scamming.
Second, there is the daunting question: Given an environment in which scamming is possible, profitable, and subtly encouraged, is it even possible to have a genuinely successful business? Can it be secured and if so how? Can anything resembling trust be established in such an environment? Many people are fascinated by such questions, at least until they become jaded enough to conclude the answer is "no." So the cycle restarts.
My point too. This is what make the "Monopoly" part of EVE probably the most realistic marked based game in the world except from the RL game of The global finansial marked.
Btw. I am planning a small memorial for all this. More to follow.
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Toshiro Miyamoto
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Posted - 2010.10.21 03:14:00 -
[390]
There's no way Bad Bobby would do this himself. No way. His account had to be hacked.
After all, I've been told by many that he has the Heart of a Sweet Child...
...and he keeps it in a glass case on the bridge of his ship.
Bad Bobby, this isn't extortion. Pay me 500 million ISK or I might forget to tell everyone what a nice guy you are.
;)
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