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[EBANK] The long, drawn-out death wail

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Biocross	Posted - 2010.09.20 13:58:00 - [61] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Dirk Mortice Because they've been raising a semi-reasonable amount of isk to give back to everybody? Really? Do you think the amount they have raised over the last 12 months will balance out the 100s of billions that have been lost to those who have left the game in that period? It's possible, I guess, but it's very hard to be sure on the basis of their incomplete public accounts. If they left the game then what do they care about ISK one way or the other?
Axemaster	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:11:00 - [62] I don't get it. Why don't you just walk away with all the remaining isk? Why do you seem decent?
RAW23	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:12:00 - [63] Originally by: Biocross Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Dirk Mortice Because they've been raising a semi-reasonable amount of isk to give back to everybody? Really? Do you think the amount they have raised over the last 12 months will balance out the 100s of billions that have been lost to those who have left the game in that period? It's possible, I guess, but it's very hard to be sure on the basis of their incomplete public accounts. If they left the game then what do they care about ISK one way or the other? The point is they might have quite liked to spend it whilst they were still in the game
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:14:00 - [64] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Dirk Mortice Because they've been raising a semi-reasonable amount of isk to give back to everybody? Really? Do you think the amount they have raised over the last 12 months will balance out the 100s of billions that have been lost to those who have left the game in that period? It's possible, I guess, but it's very hard to be sure on the basis of their incomplete public accounts. And the two aren't (weren't) mutually exclusive. They could have released shares as soon as they had a general idea of the remaining asset value, and then ran the entire organization like an investment fund, increasing the value as much as their drive to "do the right thing" dictated. The only possible commendations anyone should be getting from EBank is for stubborn determination, though I personally don't value misguided and/or deluded determination. I honestly still cannot grasp Ray's motivation through all this. I'm fairly confident that despite his various titles and seeming leadership over the bank, that he was always a "servant" (employee perhaps? I can't find the right word) to the final whims of the other directors. Perhaps he wanted the challenge or thought the bank was an important institution...I'm not sure. However, at some point long ago he must have realized that this was all a pretty awful idea, yet he stuck through regardless. I've never considered Ray a dumb person, and I think he's the only person whose competence I would still have some faith in. I would trust the rest of them to hold my money, but not make competent and appropriate decisions when faced with a dilemma of any sort.
Biocross	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:21:00 - [65] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Biocross Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Dirk Mortice Because they've been raising a semi-reasonable amount of isk to give back to everybody? Really? Do you think the amount they have raised over the last 12 months will balance out the 100s of billions that have been lost to those who have left the game in that period? It's possible, I guess, but it's very hard to be sure on the basis of their incomplete public accounts. If they left the game then what do they care about ISK one way or the other? The point is they might have quite liked to spend it whilst they were still in the game The point is that that is a completely pointless hypothetical. They obviously had more ISK than they wanted to spend, or needed at a given time or else they wouldn't have "invested it" as it were. It's unlikely that they went "Oh man, I don't have enough for a fitted Zealot due to them EBANK scammers, time to hang the good old pod and move on to WOW", and if they did get trolled into quitting by this instead of say T4U or any of the other lulzworthy "investment opportunities", the irony still exists that this seems to be one of the few massively compromised operations where people will ACTUALLY GET THEIR MONEY BACK(!). That is the most striking thing of the whole affair, I believe, Ray and co, whatever anyone thinks of them actually put quite a few hours in a situation where they could have said "you know what, **** it, it was a scam, lulz", came to a solution where whoever is still active can get their money back (verification schmerification), and really get nothing out of the whole thing whatsoever (and if they get a few million it would still be the biggest effort, lowest paying scam of all time).
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:24:00 - [66] Originally by: Biocross inconsistent and borderline incoherent nattering shush
Dzil Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:45:00 - [67] Originally by: Biocross That is the most striking thing of the whole affair, I believe, Ray and co, whatever anyone thinks of them actually put quite a few hours in a situation where they could have said "you know what, **** it, it was a scam, lulz", came to a solution where whoever is still active can get their money back (verification schmerification), and really get nothing out of the whole thing whatsoever (and if they get a few million it would still be the biggest effort, lowest paying scam of all time). Didn't at least some of the BOD members also have ebank accounts affected by the freeze/RMT scam? If so, their efforts do in part benefit them, as the % returned is greater. It also explains the determination and absolute unwillingness to give money back to the unverified, potential scam accounts: I know in Ray's shoes I'd absolutely not want to distribute a share of my own isk out to the very guys that scammed me. Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :)
BIG Brain BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:45:00 - [68] Having confirmed my accounts a while back - do I have to do anything now? No Sig for me anymore
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:18:00 - [69] One thing I don't understand is: just a few days ago you made a big point out of not allowing the sale of EBANK balances, even between verified accounts; now you present us a system which seems to encourage exactly this behavior (as you cannot control what happens to the shares once they are issued). care to enlighten me on that sudden switch of opinion? PS: I would understand this if the reasoning had been "we don't allow the sale of account balances at this point in time as we are planning to roll out our own system for this sort of transactions" but the argument was "sale of account balances won't ever be allowed because it is bad".
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton One thing I don't understand is: just a few days ago you made a big point out of not allowing the sale of EBANK balances, even between verified accounts; now you present us a system which seems to encourage exactly this behavior (as you cannot control what happens to the shares once they are issued). care to enlighten me on that sudden switch of opinion? PS: I would understand this if the reasoning had been "we don't allow the sale of account balances at this point in time as we are planning to roll out our own system for this sort of transactions" but the argument was "sale of account balances won't ever be allowed because it is bad". as I see it - that happens all in game and not OOG so can be tracked fine by ccp .... --

Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:37:00 - [71] Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 20/09/2010 15:45:05 @Dzil - I can't speak for the others involved but my isk and assets were tossed into the "pot" a long time ago. Not out of pride or any other delusional ideas, but because I don't think I'll be needing it after this thing's been wrapped up. Regarding Athre leaving, obviously we would have liked to keep her around but she had to leave us for her own reasons. There is no ill will towards her, and she is also not the reason the bank is liquidating. Regarding account verification, if you have already verified then you should be just fine. Regarding password resets, we do have a ticket system for resetting passwords and other issues. http://support.eve-bank.net/ Anything else you guys wanna know? I'm in a good mood and if you know me you know this doesn't happen very often. Edit: Don't forget to turn off your CSPA charge so I can send you your reset password. Prolly a good idea to go ahead and add "EBANK Amarr155" as a buddy. -----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:57:00 - [72] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Anything else you guys wanna know? I'm in a good mood and if you know me you know this doesn't happen very often. What caused you guys to change your minds?
kveldulfson The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:00:00 - [73] I am not overly suprised yet slightly disapointed that you could not rescue the situation. I look forward to getting some if not all my 5 billion back.. Hard feelings none after all this is a game and **** happens
Biocross	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:08:00 - [74] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Anything else you guys wanna know? I'm in a good mood and if you know me you know this doesn't happen very often. I'd love to know the inside story from your perspective, no names of course.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:23:00 - [75] Quote: Anything else you guys wanna know? Why did you toss the sponge when you looked like you were to recover? If it was me I'd be pised like crazy just to say the least. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:32:00 - [76] Originally by: BIG Brain Having confirmed my accounts a while back - do I have to do anything now? Besides standing there looking (beer goggle) sexy, nope. Follow My EBANK Chatter
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:43:00 - [77] Originally by: Samroski Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: 49473 I will purchase shares for 100k if you want your isk sooner than december. Dividends will start sooner than December. This seems strange. When dividends are paid off, the money is distributed automatically to all the shareholders iirc. How can you start distribution before all the shares have been issued? How are you going to pay "dividend" to those shares issued after the first dividend? That had me, as an innocent bystander, confused too. They could issue multiple payouts in blocks, but since every share always gets its share of the dividend, that would result in an uneven distribution where 'early' shares receive more dividend per share than 'late' ones. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:52:00 - [78] Edited by: SencneS on 20/09/2010 16:54:52 Gabriel Virtus PMed me in game after I said I would never invest in him, after a long talk he asked about EBANK etc. Then I told him EBANK one day would eventually close down, and it's likely that full recovery wouldn't have been achieved. Despite all the efforts we put forth, recovery of over 1.6 Trillion ISK was going to take a long time. After a year and finally writing off all defaulted loans etc and all our billions on billions of profit we where still looking at over 1 trillion debt. The amount we made literally covered just over what we had to write off. As disappointing as that sounds it was a hard fact. I told Gabriel Virtus something similar but I'll change it to address this thread as well. "There are really just three of us, we've done it for over a year, seen zero reward, have been badgered, trolled, been told we're liers and scammers the whole time, yet we stuck with it. At some point in the future we recognize we could all just leave EVE. I mean we all have at least 5+ years in EVE. Each time one of us burns out and leaves EBANK, it puts more pressure on the others to carry on the task, again I'll say Athre leaving was not seen as a hard move, I respect her enough not to hold it against her in anyway.. We tried to hire more people, but no one wants to be part of EBANK when the community is outright attacking it from all angles. Who do we hand over the keys to 700B or more? How can we trust anyone to not just walk away with the ISK.. We're looking for the fastest way to resolve this ordeal. I think all directors respect each the other directors enough to not leave and have them carry the weight and responsibility of this task by themselves. The clearing of unverified accounts is a fast forward button to a faster resolution. I know Ray, AC and I have all been feeling burn out, login time spans are a little shorter, times between login are a little longer. It's only compounded by the fact we're doing it for everyone else, and those people are the ones badgering, trolling, calling us liers and scammers. It's only a matter of time before anyone of us simply has had enough and leaves, and I think each of us release we tried, we put forth the biggest effort we could, but the task was just too big for 3-4 people, let along 10 people." At some point in time you have to realize your efforts are fruitless, the term - Winners never quit, quitters never win, but those who never win and never quit are idiots. Speaks volumes in this situations. Amarr for Life
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:53:00 - [79] Pre-December dividend payments, before all shares are distributed ... Odd. Oh, and this: Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 @Dzil - I can't speak for the others involved but my isk and assets were tossed into the "pot" a long time ago. Not out of pride or any other delusional ideas, but because I don't think I'll be needing it after this thing's been wrapped up. When I put on my conspiratorial glasses, I see stars.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.09.20 17:35:00 - [80] Quote: It's only compounded by the fact we're doing it for everyone else, and those people are the ones badgering, trolling, calling us liers and scammers You have to admit that your bank somewhat sprayed fuel on the fire with some quite unlucky forum performances where some of your guys taunted and talked fun things to everyone including depositors who had no guilt. This makes for a much worse comprehension of your dire situation. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz

Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.09.20 17:47:00 - [81] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Anything else you guys wanna know? I'm in a good mood and if you know me you know this doesn't happen very often. What caused you guys to change your minds? Ze little grey cells told us to. I see Sencnes has already posted his usual wall of text. I can say that unlike what he posted, I never thought "we're doing this for them and this is how they treat us". I've always tried to maintain a very /finger point of view. I can't be something I'm not, I just don't have the energy for that sort of thing. Basically, ** had to get done before any decision could be made. I guess you could say got done. @VV- i dont know anything about any sponges.... -----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a **.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.09.20 18:24:00 - [82] For me personally it was never about gratitude or seeking approval etc. But it didn't help that we where treated like crap. I don't like negativity in general, and a lot of people tossed a lot of negativity at all of us. Even if we never got a any kind of reinforced statements that wouldn't have bothered me personal, one bit. But the fact we got an unending amounts of negativity really effected me personally. I can't speak for the others but I've personally seen a change in the way Ray and AC are reacting and I know I feel revealed this is coming to a closure. There is a clear sign of this, if you look at the changes in the way, Ray, AC and I have posted since this announcement. We always had this sense of doing the right thing, and no matter what we did or how it was meet with negativity, I'm sorry if people don't like hearing that. I don't like saying it, but the fact is it happened, it's in the past, still looking forward to the end of an era. Amarr for Life
Ambo Mortis Angelus Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.09.20 20:14:00 - [83] To be honest, I can't believe you guys stuck with it this long. Personally, I would have liquidated it all after the scam and called it a day. No point spending years earning back people's pretend money (in a game that's supposed to be a fun environment where you unwind no less!) Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for you for trying, despite all the **** thrown at you. I don't believe it was ever a feasible target though and I find it incomprehensible that you all tried so hard for so long. I hope you all rediscover the fun side of the game after this is all over. --------------------------------------
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.09.20 20:38:00 - [84] Personally thought you guys were crazy to stick it out. Zero upside endeavour. I would have liquidated or quit a year ago. Props for hanging out this long.
Pilk Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.20 21:27:00 - [85] Edited by: Pilk on 20/09/2010 21:27:27 Ray, At your convenience, can you please verify that I am set to receive shares? I don't seem to have any documentation of what my login to the system used to be. Alternately, I'd be willing to accept ownership of the domain name as payment in full in lieu of shares. I'll provide appropriate real-world documentation upon request. Regards, --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: PAID!
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.09.20 21:31:00 - [86] Originally by: SencneS We always had this sense of doing the right thing, and no matter what we did or how it was meet with negativity, I'm sorry if people don't like hearing that. I don't like saying it, but the fact is it happened, it's in the past, still looking forward to the end of an era. It is a good thing this is finally coming to a close. However think about everything you (EBank) have went through in the past year. Was it really worth it?? I said it once and I'll quote it again Quote: Most of the problems were caused by people that are not even involved with EBank anymore, so your hands are clean. http://eve-search.com/thread/1161131/page/37#1103 You guys did bust your ass and put up with a lot of ****. Although looking back, Ray didn't always make it easy for you guys either. Were you guys called liars, scammers, and worse? Yes. Did people who were told "next update on this day" have a right to call EBank liars when 2 months after that date, there was still no update? YES. Had the PR been better perhaps it would have been more manageable. Of course you would still have had some of it going on, but at least to the players they would have been able to see progress going on instead of being left in the dark. Glad you guys can finally move on, and I hope your next 5 years in EVE are much more relaxing and enjoyable!
AirCond	Posted - 2010.09.20 22:14:00 - [87] Having confirmed my accounts - do I have to do anything now? when will the shares be sent out ???? Thanks i have had over 6Bill isk stuck in this bank for over a year. about time we had some payback.
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2010.09.20 22:22:00 - [88] I just want to state for the record that, upon reflection, you made the best thread title that I have ever seen Ray. Nice work. ______________________________
Viktor Villiance Caldari Astrosemites Unlimited	Posted - 2010.09.20 22:35:00 - [89] So, I'm starting up a new bank called Super CAM-Bank. Invest in me, totally secure, paying out 20% interest monthly! Best of all, you'll get updates about your frozen accounts only ONE month after they're promised. It's a whole new world of customer service. It was once thought that man could be trusted with the keys to his own destiny, but as it turns out, that destiny was to forever deny himself entry to that fate from the futile effort of ever-lasting
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.09.21 00:45:00 - [90] Originally by: Breaker77 Was it really worth it?? For me it was yeah. I think it would have been highly irresponsible to not try. Even if in the end our original goals where not meet, there is a small satisfaction that we tried. If we had not tried, I think it would have been a regret that would always be nibbling at me. I know that sounds corny but yeah, that's how I feel. Amarr for Life



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