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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.24 22:30:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Barakkus I thought Gallente were supposed to be more drone focused than guns.
Over missiles.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.24 22:33:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Barakkus Maybe they should buff drones on Gallente ships then instead of guns.
The only thing they could ever do to make drones better (and they aren't bad) is if they followed in warp so that drone boat could join fight and not left bulletless in a fight cause of a warp.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.24 22:33:00 -
[93]
Originally by: London Actually, Megathron can.. but it *just* has the room for it and no bonuses... while the Domi and Ishtar can field waves of different sizes.
The hyperion can fit 5 heavies too..but only has enough bandwidth to send out three.The mega can send out all 5.I guess the Hype is limited because it has 8 gun slots.
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London
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.24 22:37:00 -
[94]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: London Actually, Megathron can.. but it *just* has the room for it and no bonuses... while the Domi and Ishtar can field waves of different sizes.
The hyperion can fit 5 heavies too..but only has enough bandwidth to send out three.The mega can send out all 5.I guess the Hype is limited because it has 8 gun slots.
Correction again, I believe it can send out 4.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.24 22:47:00 -
[95]
Originally by: London Correction again, I believe it can send out 4.
Come to think of it you might be right..Im not sure because I dont like to fly it
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.09.24 23:01:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Crias Taylor
Originally by: Barakkus Maybe they should buff drones on Gallente ships then instead of guns.
The only thing they could ever do to make drones better (and they aren't bad) is if they followed in warp so that drone boat could join fight and not left bulletless in a fight cause of a warp.
Or a reconnect/recall button like probes have, and make drones warp to you and dock.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.25 00:12:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Grimpak on 25/09/2010 00:13:13 tbh I would prefer a straight 20% increase in damage for med and large blasters, with just a tiny nudge on the tracking, while the rails could use a 10% increase in both dmg and tracking.
that said, such massive boost to damage on the blasters would probably make things dicey on the falloff front, but that could be fixed too. I don't mind them putting OMFG damage, if that damage is restricted to a 10-15km radius from the ship.
however I am expecting that the blaster "fix" will be nerfing both AC's and pulses to kingdom come and back, as its usual of CCP.
also, about the drone thing, both the typhoon and the armageddon can use a full flight of 5 heavies.
the typhoon even has quite the space for spares btw, since it has the 2nd largest drone bay. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zverofaust
Gallente Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.25 04:49:00 -
[98]
Gallente don't need a straight up speed/agility buff. Instead of having a "FOTM turret" you'd have a "FOTM nanoship", what's the difference?
A couple of different approaches would improve Gallente performance:
- Better Drone controls would help Gallente pilots micromanage drones more effectively, with quick "Engage Target" and "Return to Drone Bay" buttons on the Overview screen. Also making drones harder to kill would be awesome. It's really ****ty than any ******* can easily kill off Gallente droneboats primary weapons on a whim. That'd be like having the ability to individually target and destroy enemy turrets.
- Better Armor Resists. Gallente comes off as being more technologically advanced than most with its sleek ship designs and blaster technology; give their ships higher resists than others, which will allow them to fit smaller plates, freeing up PG, speed and agility while still maintaining adequate PVP competetiveness.
- More utility/high slots. Gallente ships really lack utility slots, unlike most of their counterparts which can have many.
- Railguns need better short-range tracking.
- Blasters do need more range. I mean come on, the longest-range blaster ammo type is shorter than the shortest-range autocannon ammo type. This is madness. ___________________________________________ The Hero of Kamela The Terror of Tararan The Executioner of Ezzara |
Xunlao Blackthorne
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Posted - 2010.09.25 06:27:00 -
[99]
Please give Blasters more range!
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.25 06:37:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Portmanteau on 25/09/2010 06:40:42 The real problem with blasters is this...
As the highest DPS/shortest optimal and falloff weapons in game they fall into an unfortunate situation of extremes. If you mount them on ships fast enough to comtrol range and apply their DPS they pwn everything, if you mount them on ship unable to control range and apply DPS (situation we have now) they don't PWN very much at all. How the F*** do CCP alter that balance ? It seems like buffing gallente means flicking a switch from lol underpowered to lol overpowered with no middle ground, if that buff involves enabling gal ships to control range that is.
EDIT, agree with zvero that the buff needs to be more subtle to avoid lolOPness and not put the fear of god into CCP about doing it, because if we're honest CCP would be insane to make gallente boats capable of range control
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.25 09:26:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Zverofaust - Blasters do need more range. I mean come on, the longest-range blaster ammo type is shorter than the shortest-range autocannon ammo type. This is madness.
no they don't actually. they need to have drawbacks to make up for their extreme damage.
their problem lies in the fact that the damage they pump out doesn't nullify their drawbacks of having such a low range. I mean, pulses do just a tiny ammount less of damage, yet they have nearly 3x more the optimal of blasters. AC's also have falloff of god knows how much % more than the blasters, making them having a much, much wider operability range. and I won't even talk about torps since a torp raven > blasterthron, in every way.
but giving them blasters more range wouldn't be the smartest thing to do. best way would be to pretty much make blasters the weapon of choice for engaging to ranges up to 15km, by massively boosting their damage (20% +, and a lil' nudge on the tracking), and at the same time reducing their operability range, so they get nigh useless at ranges beyond overheated webs/scrams.
in addition, a complete rework on every sort of active tanks, the massive penalties of plates vs extenders (too much mass added, 25% or even 40% less mass added on the plates would be better) AND a rework on armor rigs (honestly, only rig that could have the speed penalty would be the trimark).
as for speed/agility. I wouldn't say a straight boost on that, but perhaps decrease the gallente blaster-ships mass by a bit and also increasing agility, while maintaining their current speed would be better. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
London
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.25 20:50:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Grimpak
their problem lies in the fact that the damage they pump out doesn't nullify their drawbacks of having such a low range. I mean, pulses do just a tiny ammount less of damage, yet they have nearly 3x more the optimal of blasters. AC's also have falloff of god knows how much % more than the blasters, making them having a much, much wider operability range. and I won't even talk about torps since a torp raven > blasterthron, in every way.
Pretty much nailed it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.25 20:55:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Grimpak I won't even talk about torps since a torp raven > blasterthron, in every way.
Blasterthron looks sexierà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Opertone
Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.09.25 20:59:00 -
[104]
my suggestion is... give HYBRID rail guns the DPS of the Ammar BS. Moar DPS to the rail guns, cause nwo they are lol... and neither gallente nor caldari can use it
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Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2010.09.27 11:16:00 -
[105]
To all those who say "Blasters are fine" a short story from my Faction Warfare times.
We had a bunker vulnerable and I fitted a Megathron with Blasters and Void (Yeah, Void, I build a metric ton of that ammo when invention came out and I suffered from a reading deficiency :P ). I figured "might as well use that ammo up to shorten the time spent shooting at a stationary target".
I sat at optimal and was blasting away until I started moving towards the communal ammo can. Suddenly a lot of my shots started missing. Remember, I was shooting at a stationary target, and was moving at a neglegible velocity - yet tracking problems set in.
I have to admit that I haven't really PvPed in ages, but that incident clearly shows that something is wrong there - either the guns themselves, the T2 ammo or (my favorite) the way tracking is calculated have a serious issue. I really wanted to fire my gunners (or fire AT my gunners) for not being able to lead a stationary target.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
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Posted - 2010.09.27 12:28:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Grimpak I won't even talk about torps since a torp raven > blasterthron, in every way
Dude.. just. Dude...
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.27 12:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Grimpak I won't even talk about torps since a torp raven > blasterthron, in every way
Dude.. just. Dude...
ok ok... I exagerated.
megathron is sexier than the raven.
on the rest tho, torp ravens fill up the lows with dmg mods, a tank in the mids and do over 900dps from torps alone. More if you put rage torps in the equation.
in more realistic fits (3 dmg mods), the raven will have 850dps at up to 30km, while the megathron will deal 40dps more, at only 4.5km range (neutrons + faction AM) and you will only have 4 lowslots + rigslots for tank.
raven has 5 medslots (discounting obligatory mwd) + 2 lowslots (DCU + pdu for extra shields) plus the rigslots to give out tank, and it has 2 utility slots on top of it.
mobility-wise the raven is slower, yet that is quite easily countered by the fact that a) faction/stock torps hit up to 30km range, and b) you swap for javs and you all of the sudden can deal 670dps up to 45km range. even more if you add missile speed rigs, AND the bonus where you can pick your damage.
bthrons can only deal drone damage at those ranges.
conclusion: torp ravens, like pulse geddons (I won't even say anything about pulse apocs90km pulses?), and AC tempests/maelstroms, have a freakishly huge operability range (300%+), where they just deal marginally less damage than blaster ships (like 10-15% less damage).
In my view, this situation of being outreached by pretty much every weapon is not the problem.
problem is, for the range the blasters have, they should do more damage. and by more, I really DO mean lots more. 20% more at the very least.
I don't mind b-throns and b-hypes being only operable in point blank ranges (up to 20km max), if by tradeoff you get agile ships that can deal upwards of 1500dps with ease. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.09.27 14:45:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Grimpak I won't even talk about torps since a torp raven > blasterthron, in every way
I don't mind b-throns and b-hypes being only operable in point blank ranges (up to 20km max), if by tradeoff you get agile ships that can deal upwards of 1500dps with ease.
Pretty much this.
Blasters need a clear advantage in short range combat and no, the pathetic 5-15% extra damage (assuming they can even track the target which is unfortunately unlikely) is simply not worth the sacrifices made to range.
Fix them or make it easy and take them out of the damned game.
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Redoubti
Amarr Evil Dead L.L.C.
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Posted - 2010.09.27 15:58:00 -
[109]
If this about fixing hybrids or about fixing Gallente? If you are not careful any changes to hybrids will have peeps crying nerf the Moa, Rokh, and eagle.
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2010.09.27 16:03:00 -
[110]
Ugh. I've already dumped around a million SP into ****-city large blasters. Gave up halfway between IV and V when I realized just how rubbish they are on a ship that takes a month to turn and an additional couple weeks to accelerate towards the target. If I DO manage to get into range, hey look! I'm capped out but fortunately that doesn't matter, because the primary exploded 90 seconds ago under fire from my non-Gallentean brosefs.
Oh right. We're the 'drone race'. We have one hull in each ship category that would qualify as a bonused (or otherwise, see: Ishkur [no damage or hp bonuses, but you do get up to two flights of drones (like a Sentinel!*), which means you're not entirely ****ed and useless if you d/c or have to warp out) drone boat, otherwise we have similar bandwidth, dronebay m3, and abandonable-in-space drone dps as every other race in each of their respective ship classes.
Hare-brained suggestion: Hefty reduction of mass/agility penalties on armor rigs & plates per level; optimals/falloff on blasters now a fixed range; ammo types now affect tracking (like Minmatar long-range ammo does) and ROF.
Antimatter = high-alpha, slow cycles, base tracking, heavier cap draw Iron = vastly improved tracking, zippy ROF, weak alpha/dps, lighter cap draw
I dunno. Fix it. Somehow. I don't care. Literally anything would an improvement.
I'll be over here cross-training to Amarr and Minmatar while you sort that out.
* Yeah, no. I know. Sentinel hardly stacks up to an Ishkur. Hurr.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.09.27 16:27:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula No T1 battleship can field 5 heavies except a Domi, which happens to be Gallente.
Armageddon was here? ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Ocih
Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.27 16:47:00 -
[112]
To the OP: The problem is, you spec a Gallente ship for speed so it can use blasters right and everyone will fit rails, kite you at 30 km anyway. Just doing it with enough speed that you cant hit back. Kind of like Minmatar are now? |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.27 17:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Redoubti If this about fixing hybrids or about fixing Gallente? If you are not careful any changes to hybrids will have peeps crying nerf the Moa, Rokh, and eagle.
rail fix is simple: no more than 5% (or even 10%) more damage, and equal increase in tracking.
they just need to deal good damage, not omfgwtf damage; and tracking wise, they only need to be below lasers. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
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Posted - 2010.09.27 17:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Grimpak ok ok... I exagerated.
megathron is sexier than the raven.
on the rest tho, torp ravens fill up the lows with dmg mods, a tank in the mids and do over 900dps from torps alone. More if you put rage torps in the equation.
in more realistic fits (3 dmg mods), the raven will have 850dps at up to 30km, while the megathron will deal 40dps more, at only 4.5km range (neutrons + faction AM) and you will only have 4 lowslots + rigslots for tank.
raven has 5 medslots (discounting obligatory mwd) + 2 lowslots (DCU + pdu for extra shields) plus the rigslots to give out tank, and it has 2 utility slots on top of it.
mobility-wise the raven is slower, yet that is quite easily countered by the fact that a) faction/stock torps hit up to 30km range, and b) you swap for javs and you all of the sudden can deal 670dps up to 45km range. even more if you add missile speed rigs, AND the bonus where you can pick your damage.
bthrons can only deal drone damage at those ranges.
conclusion: torp ravens, like pulse geddons (I won't even say anything about pulse apocs90km pulses?), and AC tempests/maelstroms, have a freakishly huge operability range (300%+), where they just deal marginally less damage than blaster ships (like 10-15% less damage).
In my view, this situation of being outreached by pretty much every weapon is not the problem.
Our Corporate-wide fleet builds for Megathron's do 950 DPS at 6,400 Optimal and 16,000 Fall off (123K EHP-3200 Volley Damage) so that is 22KM Effective range.
Tracking For Megathron: .07 Tracking For Armageddon: .04 with navy Multi-frequency crystals.
So the tracking is actually better. You people are just doing it wrong because you make an assumption and listen to the parrots on these forums.
And no, I am not going to be baited into post this fit. I want as many fail fitted Fleet Megathron's flying around as possible. If you can't figure it out, it's your problem not a problem of the Race.
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Anti Kondor
Minmatar Enterprise Estonia Session Changes
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Posted - 2010.09.27 17:28:00 -
[115]
Just a quick question, some people have sugested using sensor daps on blaster boats to force the enemy closer, but how many sensor damps would you actually need on an enemy for that to work? Can't check myself in EHQ since I am at work. The idea itself is interesting, but I dont really see it as a workable solution. ----------
Try not to take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway.
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.09.27 17:54:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Anti Kondor Just a quick question, some people have sugested using sensor daps on blaster boats to force the enemy closer, but how many sensor damps would you actually need on an enemy for that to work? Can't check myself in EHQ since I am at work. The idea itself is interesting, but I dont really see it as a workable solution.
So the enemy is just going to wait for you to get into optimal? And dampeners wont keep it from warping off.
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Anti Kondor
Minmatar Enterprise Estonia Session Changes
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Posted - 2010.09.27 18:00:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle
Originally by: Anti Kondor Just a quick question, some people have sugested using sensor daps on blaster boats to force the enemy closer, but how many sensor damps would you actually need on an enemy for that to work? Can't check myself in EHQ since I am at work. The idea itself is interesting, but I dont really see it as a workable solution.
So the enemy is just going to wait for you to get into optimal? And dampeners wont keep it from warping off.
You don't say. I was not sugesting replacing a point with sensor damps, but rather asking if instead of using, say, webs you use sensor damps with the range damping script to force the enemy into your engagement envelope where the longer optimal of lazors or the longer falloff of projectiles is a moot point. They have to either disengage or walk into your jaws, so to speak.
I further mentioned that this idea does not seem workable to me and will now elaborate on that: it does not seem workable because of the ammount of damps you need to force a ship into such short range, especially on battleship sized vessels, but I am unable to check that myself because I can not install anything on this work computer and I will not be leaving here for another 11 hours. ----------
Try not to take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway.
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Night Epoch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2010.09.27 18:07:00 -
[118]
Confirming the Deimos is utterly worthless. What a LOLboat. I'd solo one in a mining Ibis.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.27 18:34:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Grimpak on 27/09/2010 18:36:29
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Our Corporate-wide fleet builds for Megathron's do 950 DPS at 6,400 Optimal and 16,000 Fall off (123K EHP-3200 Volley Damage) so that is 22KM Effective range.
Tracking For Megathron: .07 Tracking For Armageddon: .04 with navy Multi-frequency crystals.
So the tracking is actually better. You people are just doing it wrong because you make an assumption and listen to the parrots on these forums.
And no, I am not going to be baited into post this fit. I want as many fail fitted Fleet Megathron's flying around as possible. If you can't figure it out, it's your problem not a problem of the Race.
wait what?
a) you can only achieve such numbers by using drones, and a reduced number of MFS, coupled with TE's. however, I did not said that the numbers I posted are without drones. Even still, an effective range of 22km where you deal like 300 or so dps at that range + drones means you're doing something in the 600dps range. and that means using ogres that are, infact, quite slow (even with 'zerkers we're looking at too long of a drone travel time). ravens on the other hand (3 dmg mods), deal 850dps from torps up to 30km. no falloff to hinder damage calcs. add drones and all of the sudden you have a bit over 1000dps done. It has, however, to account to drone travel, and even then, the raven is either as agile and fast as your plated trimarked megathron, or actually faster and more nimble.
b) the way tracking works, having said tracking at scorch optimals (45km and above) means you can actually hit frigates without any kind of aid. b-thron's can't do that with null or any other kind of ammo. they need to have their target sitting perfectly still at optimal, or triple-webbed and with a scram on him.
c) not listening to forum parrots, but number checking and 7 years in this game tells me that the facts are these: tiny damage advantage of blasters does not compensate the fact that pretty much every other SR gun ingame (at the very least on the medium and large sizes) outperforms them considerably, coupled with the fact that, bar the taranis, blaster-oriented ships are as agile as a sea cow on dry land, disparities of active tank vs passive tank, AND gruesome penalties from both passive armor tank mods and rigs. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Orange Lagomorph
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Posted - 2010.09.27 18:53:00 -
[120]
Yeah, basically CCP assigned the shortest-ranged turret to an armor-tanking race whose ship speeds are average at best. Oh yeah, and those turrets drain the capacitor in addition to using ammunition.
Being the "drone specialist" race only compensates for these ridiculous shortcomings to a certain degree, and even then only on certain ships.
If the Myrmidon hadn't been nerfed, Gallente would still be a fairly sexy race. But it was, so... yeah.
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