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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:14:00 -
[31]
Alternately, give the larger blaster ships:
(a) Bonuses to webbers, let them go old-school and get someone down to like 10-20% speed with a couple webs when they ship type is fully trained.
or
(b) Bonuses to target dampeners so that people have to come very close to lock and engage. Since the cruiser+ blaster boats are tankish boats, that fits with the whole 'brick' thing they have going on. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Ruhige Schmerz
Valhalla Naval Corp IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:19:00 -
[32]
Agree, blasters are mostly fine, just fix the ships. Tracking bonuses would be fine. Love my failblarpy regardless.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:22:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ralnik on 22/09/2010 21:22:26
Originally by: Lost Greybeard Alternately, give the larger blaster ships:
(a) Bonuses to webbers, let them go old-school and get someone down to like 10-20% speed with a couple webs when they ship type is fully trained.
or
(b) Bonuses to target dampeners so that people have to come very close to lock and engage. Since the cruiser+ blaster boats are tankish boats, that fits with the whole 'brick' thing they have going on.
Yea I though about the web bonus as well, but then figured it would require far too much changing as each ship is only allotted a specific amount of bonuses.
Take a Myrm for example, I sure as hell wouldn't want to give up the Drone damage & Armor repping bonus in exchange for web bonus. It would change the ship far too much.
On the other hand fiddling with agility and top speed numbers, wouldn't change the ships current designs.
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Merdaneth
Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
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Posted - 2010.09.22 22:34:00 -
[34]
People that compare blasters to lasers always forget one essential thing: scorch.
Remove scorch crystals, and the 'lasers can do OMG damage at range' debate is instantly over. Nobody would complain about a microwave doing half the damage of scorch at less range. Scorch is the singular item that makes lasers powerful at range, nothing else. If you take Scorch out of the equation, then there is no balance upset.
Autocannons however have a lot of things going for them besides range. Selectable damage types, easy fittings, good tracking etc.
If you give Null a range bonus of 50% (instead of 25%) and falloff bonus of x2 (instead of x1.25), then the problem would be instantly fixed.
Well, not actually fixed. I believe CCP dropped the ball by creating advanced ammo types that allow all short range guns except blasters to project decent damage at relatively long range. I would feel more in favor for reducing the range/damage potential of long range ammo for short range guns to bring blasters back.
Currently there is barely any role for small and medium sized beam lasers (scorch fitted short range lasers are far superior). Giving Null much better range will sort of kill the small and medium railguns. Medium and small artillery is now only holding its own due to superior alpha.
Gallente ships don't need to be 'fixed', the dynamic of short range weapons needs to be fixed. Currently laser and AC ships don't need to be in the Gallente's ships blaster danger zone to still inflict a decent amount of damage, that is the core problem. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Soon Shin
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Posted - 2010.09.22 22:42:00 -
[35]
Make Blaster Ships shield tanked rather than Armor tanked. Exchange Armor Hit points for Shield Hit points, Low Slots for more Mid slots so that they can tank, mwd, and tackle. Remove the armor repair bonus for stronger web, more shield hit points/resists, or speed/agility bonus.
Gallente Drone Boats should however remain Armor tanked as Drone Boats used mid and high slots for drone upgrades.
This would solve a lot of the blaster problems.
Like how Minmatar are both armor and shield, the same should work go for Gallente. Caldari and Amarr should be the hardcore armor or shield tankers.
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London
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.22 22:52:00 -
[36]
I find it ridiculous that after pages of threads about Hybrids/Blasters/Gallente, it wasn't even on the damn CSM list. Just look at how many times "hybrids" come up in the balancing thread. Yet Rockets got near the top? what gives???
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Cambarus
Dead poets society The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2010.09.22 23:05:00 -
[37]
An armageddon ODs a megathron at about 7-8km. A megathron ODs a geddon by a whopping ~9% within its optimal (4.5km) using close range ammo (a gallente ship using null will not OD a geddon at any range) A geddon outranges the megathron by ~300% Compared to a 9% increase in damage from the mega.
See? Blasters are fine |
Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2010.09.23 00:27:00 -
[38]
Gallente ships are fine. They have pretty generous and healthy mid slot layouts to fit fit painters, dual-webs/props options while maintaining a solid tank. Web bonus to gallente ships sets everything back a couple of years, or have people forgotten.
Simply change the fitting requirements on hybrid turrets. Also adjust the ammo. Completely remove range +/- to the ammo and change it to varying increases of RoF. Give the option for either alpha, or dps depending on ammo used. This alone, altho subtle would provide diversity and signifcant improvement without jumping the O/P line.
Can't have it all.. making hybrids a new fotm couple'd with drones is asking for trouble. Making them the fastest with the best drones is really asking for trouble. Making them the fastest with uber webs, improved hybrids, and the best drones is completely ****ed up, illogical thinking that only spoiled childern conjure up, the Cartman syndrome.
---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
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Posted - 2010.09.23 02:57:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 23/09/2010 03:06:13
Originally by: A Bombs Edited by: A Bombs on 22/09/2010 13:02:53
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 22/09/2010 12:13:40 Well I see you fools complaining don't really fly Blasterships much.
More tracking or a minor agility buff would be nice, beyond that they are fine. I think people see their short range in EFT and go like "WTF I Won't Fly That!?" or they try it once with half a**'d skills, do it wrong, and die a stupid flaming death.
Then they post here... an people think they have a clue.
says someone flys minmatar ships only with a ****ty KB
Blob monkey attempts Zing... If only I could get mindless KB stats like you by sitting there and hitting the primary for an hour.
Also...
You should not believe what Battleclinic tells you, it is a **** site at best.
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CHAOS100
The Ankou Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.23 04:44:00 -
[40]
For the deimos/thorax change the stupid mwd cap bonus to an mwd speed bonus. If the deimos could move at the same speed as a vaga it would be a lot more powerful without other changes. In fact it would probably be feared, as opposed to laughed at.
As someone stated before, the taranis is one of the best intys because it has the ability to get in range to do its damage. Now give the other blaster ships the same thing and it would be fine.
Oh and give the ishtar more cpu ffs. --------------
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.09.23 08:30:00 -
[41]
If you load antimatter into a medium blaster, it is going to have about 2km optimal. To the ppl argueing about warping on the target at 0: If you warp to zero to an object, you have a good chance coming out of the warp at 2km. Even if you can get into blaster range there is no way they can track a not stationary target perfectly. Right now the only ammo type which works somewhat in blasters is the null, which gives even less tracking, and way less range than thoose of any other weapon, for just a bit more theoretical damage output. Both the blaster boats and the guns themselves needs to be fixed, the fact that they are inferior to every other weapon in every way except damage makes them unable to take advantage of the superior damage. + The deimos is probably the worst hac ever.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 09:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 22/09/2010 21:22:26
Originally by: Lost Greybeard Alternately, give the larger blaster ships:
(a) Bonuses to webbers, let them go old-school and get someone down to like 10-20% speed with a couple webs when they ship type is fully trained.
or
(b) Bonuses to target dampeners so that people have to come very close to lock and engage. Since the cruiser+ blaster boats are tankish boats, that fits with the whole 'brick' thing they have going on.
Yea I though about the web bonus as well, but then figured it would require far too much changing as each ship is only allotted a specific amount of bonuses.
Take a Myrm for example, I sure as hell wouldn't want to give up the Drone damage & Armor repping bonus in exchange for web bonus. It would change the ship far too much.
On the other hand fiddling with agility and top speed numbers, wouldn't change the ships current designs.
I'd ditch the Myrm's armour rep bonus in a second to get a web bonus. Oh god please gimme gimme!
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.23 09:09:00 -
[43]
I think they should provide an iWin button so that even bad pilots can win a few fights.
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Captain Merkin
Minmatar Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 09:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Kidain
Originally by: Rach'Na 1.hit mwd to target 2.web paint, scram 3.Shoot 4.Boom?
1. Hit MWD. 2. What they can run as well?? 3. Boom!! Oh wait that was me...
They can run faster and shoot farther as well as track better.
IMO, Demios should have either an agility boost or a web range boost.
There's a reason Zealot/Sacrilege/Vaga/Muninn are feared... Deimos/Ishtar meh...
Lets not even go into how much fun it is trying to chase down ships in a mega/hyp. Then when you get into range, trying to track them.
Deimos and Ishtar are both quite highly feared from my experience, the ishtar is one of the best hac out there for its raw potential as a wild card and tank little bugger.
The Deimos' dps is staggering for a ship that size.
Deimos however is paper but with support I would say (along with blaster eagle) is a damn nice ship.. but its seems designed to be solo friendly yet unable to fill this role easily.
Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.23 09:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Captain Merkin
Deimos and Ishtar are both quite highly feared from my experience, the ishtar is one of the best hac out there for its raw potential as a wild card and tank little bugger.
At this point... I wondered if you were trolling, but I reserved my judgement.
Originally by: Captain Merkin
The Deimos' dps is staggering for a ship that size.
Deimos however is paper but with support I would say (along with blaster eagle) is a damn nice ship.. but its seems designed to be solo friendly yet unable to fill this role easily.
Eagle? Alright, you must be trolling :)
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.09.23 09:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Malcanis
I'd ditch the Myrm's armour rep bonus in a second to get a web bonus. Oh god please gimme gimme!
I'd never trade the repping bonus on the Myrm for a web bonus. The repping bonus is what makes that ship one of the best solo BC's in the game aside from it being a brick that can't get out of it's own way.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CHAOS100 For the deimos/thorax change the stupid mwd cap bonus to an mwd speed bonus. If the deimos could move at the same speed as a vaga it would be a lot more powerful without other changes. In fact it would probably be feared, as opposed to laughed at
I for one support this change--as I visualize a wing of expensive paper thing HAC's closing to 1,000M, Yes, I giggle to myself like a little schoolgirl
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LittleTerror
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:28:00 -
[48]
People are just god damn stupid. |
Derrick'DelBoy'Tr0tter
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lady Spank If you are too dumb to know how to fly blaster ships maybe you should try something easier, like unsubscribing.
Will someone do eve a favor and put this serial forum troll out of its misery ?
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Astald Ohtar
New Eden Regimental Navy Rebel Alliance of New Eden
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Merdaneth
If you give Null a range bonus of 50% (instead of 25%) and falloff bonus of x2 (instead of x1.25), then the problem would be instantly fixed.
this ! Amarr ship pretty much sux without scroch
But if you fix the blasters they will be over powered again, people seems to forget that gallente ships have a larger drone bay !
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Malcanis I remember as a Caldari pilot back in 2006 being told that "Caldari are fine, just get someone to tackle for you!"
And yet I resist the temptation to say that "med/heavy blasterboats are fine, just get someone to web and TP for you!" Am I not noble?
Anyway, as I've said before, the long term fix is to make hybrids qualitatively different to Projectiles or Lasers, not just "Blasters = ACs but betterer"
There is a "slight" difference between 'Caldari ships are fine' and 'Blaster boats have issues', don't you think?
The blasterboat problem involve some Caldari ship too, BTW.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:22:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The blasterboat problem involve some Caldari ship too, BTW.
This would be much easier if we went back in time and seperated Blasters and Railguns by getting rid of the 'Hybrid' gun.
Originally by: CCP Capslock
OH GOD THE TESTING
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:43:00 -
[53]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 23/09/2010 12:43:43
Originally by: Astroka
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ======================================
Thank you, that made my day.
Back on topic, um, blasters and suckage and stuff. _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:58:00 -
[54]
+1 for a hybrid fix. Better tracking, lower requirements on certain rails, some additional blaster range. Either that or nerf projectiles and lasers.
For the naysayers, drop EFT and actually try some hybrid ships out in combat.
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.09.23 17:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Astald Ohtar
Originally by: Merdaneth
If you give Null a range bonus of 50% (instead of 25%) and falloff bonus of x2 (instead of x1.25), then the problem would be instantly fixed.
this ! Amarr ship pretty much sux without scroch
But if you fix the blasters they will be over powered again, people seems to forget that gallente ships have a larger drone bay !
How fixing something supposed to make it overpovered? Also, not all gallente ships have a larger dronebay, or more bandwidth than their counterparts (which is kinda bad since gallente supposed to be the droner race aswell). Hyperion for example.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 18:37:00 -
[56]
boost dps to a meaningfully large amount to counteract the base range, increase tracking to erase any issues.
All you have to do, an exploratory 15-25% boost with some tracking is all ccp neesd to do, and it wont break **** ----------------- Friends Forever |
Baron Wikkheiser
Bonny Buccaneers
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Posted - 2010.09.23 19:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Astald Ohtar
Originally by: Merdaneth
If you give Null a range bonus of 50% (instead of 25%) and falloff bonus of x2 (instead of x1.25), then the problem would be instantly fixed.
this ! Amarr ship pretty much sux without scroch
But if you fix the blasters they will be over powered again, people seems to forget that gallente ships have a larger drone bay !
You probably should stop posting !
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London
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.23 22:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg boost dps to a meaningfully large amount to counteract the base range, increase tracking to erase any issues.
All you have to do, an exploratory 15-25% boost with some tracking is all ccp neesd to do, and it wont break ****
This would be a fantastic start. Also give Blasters more than the 8% or so DPS advantage given their massively puny range, and fix the huge hole in the tracking formula where objects transversal is ******edly high in relation to you when your forced that close.
Seriously CCP, this **** has been going on for years now.
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Eben Rochelle
Gallente RPS holdings
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Posted - 2010.09.23 22:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Rach'Na 1.hit mwd to target 2.web paint, scram 3.Shoot 4.Boom?
please DIAF
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Eben Rochelle
Gallente RPS holdings
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Posted - 2010.09.23 22:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: CHAOS100 For the deimos/thorax change the stupid mwd cap bonus to an mwd speed bonus. If the deimos could move at the same speed as a vaga it would be a lot more powerful without other changes. In fact it would probably be feared, as opposed to laughed at.
As someone stated before, the taranis is one of the best intys because it has the ability to get in range to do its damage. Now give the other blaster ships the same thing and it would be fine.
Oh and give the ishtar more cpu ffs.
QFT
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