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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.21 12:12:00 -
[151]
I think the Drake is a good example of a problem that exists in other ship classes, too, but is not so exponated as in the Drake - and that's resist bonuses from the ship.
Resists are awesome. They give higher EHP and, at the same time, increase incoming logistics. Most of the resist-bonused ships are absolutely powerful in the logistics-heavy modern fleets: Drakes, Abaddons, Archons, Aeons are all among the top ships, because their drawbacks are all mitigated in large fleets, and their bonuses can shine a lot. Especially that 25% extra resists, on top of extremely good resists to begin with.
Reduce the +5% per level to resists to +3% per level, and compensate the resist drop with extra shield HP on the base hull. This will leave the ships balanced in small fleets where EHP is EHP, and reduces their effectiveness in large fleets where the resists are a key factor.
PS. If you reduce Drake efficiency, you need to have a look at AHACs, too, though :-)
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lol internets
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:14:00 -
[152]
Edited by: lol internets on 21/10/2010 13:17:17 Seeing how Drakes are only flown by skill-less blobbers it's absolutely imperative that they are nerfed, but the way to approach this is to nerf blobbing and lack of skill.
For the etalon of lack of skill you could say take anyone with less SP than the average member of a veteran alliance such as Pandemic Legion. The way to appproach this would be +5 lag for each million SPs you don't have compared to our average member. This would be fair and just, ridding Nu Eden of these pathetic blobbers.
//edit: to see how this is true just take a look at any killboard with our people on it. Do we fly Drakes? No. Do they people we beat all the time fly Drakes? Yes.
Goes to show a lot about average player skill and what they're flying, and what should be nerfed.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:17:00 -
[153]
I spent my first couple of years flying falcons cause the drake and caldari BS were BS in fleets... Now it changes and people are calling for a nerf? Funny.
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Admiral Mendel
Caldari Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:19:00 -
[154]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 20/10/2010 20:51:06 so instead of workaround the missile issue with nerfing drakes so they get less popular ... how about fixing missiles instead?
(and yes i use missile boats a lot, in different flavors)
All cards are on the table, we are merely analyzing for now with a high degree of concern its rapid rise in popularity and being open about it. The main two balancing points we are looking further at are its shield recharge and its ability to fit both for EHP and damage/damage projection very easily compared to others. The rest is scenario specific and not a fault of the drake.
Consider the two issues separate if you will, the balance vs the rest of the class and the load it creates in fleet fight scenarios. We do indeed hope to address all missiles at some point. This is merely a heads up on an early stage investigation where nothing is set in stone.
ok...no offense....but what kinda of a reason is "too popular" ??? ppl like it so it's a bad thing??????? anything in the numbers drakes are flying will do a lot of harm....some dude will go...hmmm...let's make arty hurri shield tanks that go 1.5k m/s.....then CCP will be like....OMG new drake on block.....were i put me nerf bat?????
PEOPLE LIKING SOMETHING IS NOT A BLOODY ISSUE, go fix rockets or bloody lag.... you'll nerf the thing, then after (and i hope you will) you fix the lag, you will realize..boy we messed up, now that insta damage is viable again, and the guy can't warp off before missiles arrive...the drake is more useless then before....
go fix stuff that needs fixing sheesh.....and yes i take this personally
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eleve
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:21:00 -
[155]
Edited by: eleve on 21/10/2010 13:24:15 So there is something wrong when people fly 100 drakes fleet, but it's okay when they are doing it with zealots? Just watch how armor hac fleets are put up: blob of zealots, handfull of guardians and couple t3 cruisers to bring bonuses and long range tackle.
The reason why people are using drakes is armor hacs. Drakes are really the only good option to counter them atm and anyway there still need to be much more drakes on the field to really win them. So if you nerf drakes you just make people need to bring more drakes to counter armor hacs unless you make drakes really totally worthless ships. That just isn't the solution.
And when it comes to about debating the tank&gank part, how about you watch how poor damage missiles really do without any ballistic control systems? Drakes just need to have atleast two ballistic control systems or they are as effective as throwing rocks towards enemy. And shield tankers shouldn't really need to choose much between tank v gank, it's more like gank or tackle.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:22:00 -
[156]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis The main two balancing points we are looking further at are its shield recharge and its ability to fit both for EHP and damage/damage projection very easily compared to others.
Anything that can fit heavy missiles has good damage projection. Is the Cerb going to get whacked too? What about heavy missile support Caracals?
Anyway, I'm guessing that the Drake is about to get hit with the nerf bat, removing one of very few Caldari craft that has some solo and small gang viability, just because the null sec alliances like to blob with cheap ships. Thanks, null sec blobs, for ruining it for the rest of us. Fix Rockets in '08 '09 2010 2011 2012?! |
Admiral Mendel
Caldari Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:29:00 -
[157]
Originally by: lol internets Edited by: lol internets on 21/10/2010 13:17:17 Seeing how Drakes are only flown by skill-less blobbers it's absolutely imperative that they are nerfed, but the way to approach this is to nerf blobbing and lack of skill.
For the etalon of lack of skill you could say take anyone with less SP than the average member of a veteran alliance such as Pandemic Legion. The way to appproach this would be +5 lag for each million SPs you don't have compared to our average member. This would be fair and just, ridding Nu Eden of these pathetic blobbers.
//edit: to see how this is true just take a look at any killboard with our people on it. Do we fly Drakes? No. Do they people we beat all the time fly Drakes? Yes.
Goes to show a lot about average player skill and what they're flying, and what should be nerfed.
this guy needs to have hes posting privileges revoked
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:05:00 -
[158]
The huge problem about this whole "Should Drakes be nerfed?" discussion is that the drake is perfectly balanced in small gangs, it only becomes an issue in fleets.
How can the Drake be nerfed without compromising it's small gang capabilities?
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davet517
M. Corp Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:16:00 -
[159]
Edited by: davet517 on 21/10/2010 14:17:29
Originally by: lol internets Edited by: lol internets on 21/10/2010 13:17:17
For the etalon of lack of skill you could say take anyone with less SP than the average member of a veteran alliance such as Pandemic Legion. The way to appproach this would be +5 lag for each million SPs you don't have compared to our average member. This would be fair and just, ridding Nu Eden of these pathetic blobbers.
//edit: to see how this is true just take a look at any killboard with our people on it. Do we fly Drakes? No. Do they people we beat all the time fly Drakes? Yes.
Goes to show a lot about average player skill and what they're flying, and what should be nerfed.
This is a man of obvious intelligence. Players probably shouldn't be allowed to undock at all until they have 50 million skill points. I also like the idea of Pandemic Legion members getting +5 lag for each million skill points they don't have compared to me.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:20:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino How can the Drake be nerfed without compromising it's small gang capabilities?
Even in fleets it is not overpowered, any competent opponent will counter them easily. A few weeks back everyone was "AB armor hacs are totally overpowered because our fits/fleets cant handle them". now people figured out how to fight them (e.g. with drakes) and suddenly drakes are an issue.
I predict the next wave will be "abaddons with 1400s are to overpowered". again a ship with resists bonus, that gives you enough time to get reps in the current lag situations.
As Admiral Mendel said, fix the underlying issue so the extra buffer from the resist bonus isnt such important/needed anymore.
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lol internets
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:21:00 -
[161]
Edited by: lol internets on 21/10/2010 14:27:20
Originally by: davet517 Edited by: davet517 on 21/10/2010 14:19:38 Edited by: davet517 on 21/10/2010 14:17:29
Originally by: lol internets Edited by: lol internets on 21/10/2010 13:17:17
For the etalon of lack of skill you could say take anyone with less SP than the average member of a veteran alliance such as Pandemic Legion. The way to appproach this would be +5 lag for each million SPs you don't have compared to our average member. This would be fair and just, ridding Nu Eden of these pathetic blobbers.
//edit: to see how this is true just take a look at any killboard with our people on it. Do we fly Drakes? No. Do they people we beat all the time fly Drakes? Yes.
Goes to show a lot about average player skill and what they're flying, and what should be nerfed.
This is a man of obvious intelligence. Players probably shouldn't be allowed to undock at all until they have 50 million skill points tbfh. I also like the idea of Pandemic Legion members getting +5 lag for each million skill points they don't have compared to me.
No, you see, MC is one of the beginner alliances abusing the Drake and other ships not requiring skill alike, so your average player skill and SP would be far too low to base everything else off.
If you were from a better alliance with a history of success I would believe you, but alas as you are a member of an industrial empire corp you really have no right to talk on this matter.
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davet517
M. Corp Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:25:00 -
[162]
Originally by: lol internets No, you see, MC is one of the beginner alliances abusing the Drake and ships not requiring alike, so your average player skill and SP would be far too low to base everything else off.
If you were from a better alliance with a history of success I would believe you, but alas as you are a member of an industrial empire corp you really have no right to talk on this matter.
Damn, I've been outed. What was the number of that Drake abuse hotline again? 1-800-NO-Quacks?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:25:00 -
[163]
Originally by: lol internets No, you see, MC is one of the beginner alliances abusing the Drake and ships not requiring alike, so your average player skill and SP would be far too low to base everything else off.
If you were from a better alliance with a history of success I would believe you, but alas as you are a member of an industrial empire corp you really have no right to talk on this matter.
you are bored of ganking russian ratters?
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Alexandra Stormwing
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:39:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino How can the Drake be nerfed without compromising it's small gang capabilities?
I haven't flown a Drake in large fleet, just some solo and small gang work. I don't really like it because of the reasons Andrea mentioned earlier, but...
I'm not convinced that damage projection is really the issue, since any ship that mounts heavy missile launchers has excellent damage projection. Perhaps heavy missiles should be looked at. I don't use heavies so I can't provide any real input there.
As far as EHP goes, the drake does have a nice amount of EHP which - in my opinion - makes up for all of its failings. If the Drake is to be viable in small gangs, but less viable in large fleets, then I would propose:
1. Cut the base shield amount. This obviously directly affects the amount of total EHP, which will cause them to die faster. 2. Adjust the shield regen rate so that it regenerates at a slightly faster rate than the current Drake. In blobs, shield regen isn't that big a factor because it doesn't help when 20 people are shooting at you. In small gangs, some extra regen will make up a bit for the cut to EHP. 3. Speed increase, sig radius decrease. Another boost in exchange for a cut in EHP, allow a HAM Drake to actually close in on targets.
Another option is to give the Drake a larger drone bay. This will NOT help blobs much at all since they're often at range, but will give the Drake a little extra edge. 75m3 for 3 flights of lights would be a nice touch.
I don't see the "Gank vs. Tank" argument as being viable for Caldari missile boats in general. For shield tanking ships, the choice is between "Tank vs. EWar/Tackle" which is just as important - and one of the reasons why Caldari ships are already unpopular with solo/small gang PvP.
Aside from ECM. If there's one thing that Caldari does well, it's that, but that's about ALL Caldari does well. Everything else is at best mediocre, but in general subpar.
Also: If these Drake blobs are so incredibly popular... ...Why aren't alliances grabbing large Artillery or Beam ships to hit the Drake's worst resists, fitting a bunch of plates, and loading up on the Kinetic resists? (Obviously I don't understand blob warfare, otherwise people would already be doing this)
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Acru Si
Amarr Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2010.10.21 15:19:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Alexandra Stormwing .. Also: If these Drake blobs are so incredibly popular... ...Why aren't alliances grabbing large Artillery or Beam ships to hit the Drake's worst resists, fitting a bunch of plates, and loading up on the Kinetic resists? (Obviously I don't understand blob warfare, otherwise people would already be doing this)
(Some) People are already doing this. However a larger skill point set is required than the drake&scimi blob(more expensive ships like artilery abbadons built on the same ehp//high rez//effective ranged damage projection as the drake principle), and its actualy harder to put in practice with comparable//effective numbers than u make it sound.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.10.21 16:34:00 -
[166]
Well I guess all CCP has to do to fix this massive problem of one ship dominating all of EVE is to :
1. Remove shield tanking and adjust mid / low slots of Caldari ships
2. Remove missiles from the game entirely because they cause too much lag
3. Get rid of Drones just to "stick it in" one last time to the Gallente
4. CCP can pat themselves on the back for achieving ballance
Then we can have "Armor Tank Online" or "Super Cap Online"
Trying to stay subscribed to EvE after Dev replies has got to be one of the harder things to do in this game.
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Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.21 16:51:00 -
[167]
The Drake has 2 gimmicks: its a pure missile boat with no turrets and a pitiful drone bay, and its one of the few ships in the game that can do a respectable passive/regen tank. Active tanking in fleets is a joke, and active tanking with a drake is unsustainable cap-wise.
If you do anything with the drake's shields, make sure you make gang shield bonuses apply instantly as well (you know, like armor bonuses do).
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.10.21 17:33:00 -
[168]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis The follow up really to this is should it be the only ship that does not have to choose between tank and gank.
This is pure facepalm, Chronotis. Sorry.
As others have stated, the entire point of shield-tanking is that it allows you to choose both gank and tank - at the cost of tackle and ewar.
You seem more concerned by theoretical balance issues - that the Drake finds it easier to fit HMLs than a Hurricane does artillery - rather than the reality. Such as the domination of armour HAC fleets by Zealots, or sniper fleets by the Apocalypse? Seeing Angel ships everywhere? Or carrier fleets only of Archons? Or the complete absence of shield tanks at BS-level or larger? You realise that you're criticising the only case where shields are currently useful in fleet? Yay for diversity... Sort out shield transporter CPU issues, railguns, the Eagle, Scorch and pulse laser tracking, then Drake changes might be slightly more acceptable.
Anyway, the problem isn't the Drake, it's the fleet fights. Get rid of the (super)capital proliferation that has driven BS from the field and you'll see the attractiveness of the Drake for proper fleet work disappear.
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rensshopping
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Posted - 2010.10.21 18:02:00 -
[169]
This is the same CCP that wanted to target paint supercaps
no clue
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StealthSeeYa
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2010.10.21 18:18:00 -
[170]
I dont think you should touch the drake.. let me explain..
Back in the days when you tried to bring a BCs(drakes) fleet to a BS fight first you would be laughed at and you would get toasted quite easilly.. 40-50 BS would insta pop a drake from 150-200km
But now since you can't bring a BS fleet(thats the problem) because 8 bombers can kill it quite easy then people began to think about other strategies.. and then a-hac and drake gangs were born.
It's a sandbox like you are saying.. let people work things around by themselves.. PL already found a way to kill drake fleets.. aka pulse abaddons gang.
And since the reason you are mentionning is that missiles are creating lag/load.. nerfing rof/fittings/missile speed/etc is really the wrong approach, what about fixing the code instead.. the drake is only good for that. Oh and also about "only ship that can have a tank and good dps" please stop with that bull..
Shield tank give you the possibility of having a tank and DPS.. not only on the drake.. look at ferox/hurri/cyclone/tempest/mael/etc.. In the return armor tank do less dmg but free the meds for tackling gear..
Oh and about the range and good shield of the drake.. Caldari aren't suppose to have better shield and range than other races?? like minmatar are speed and DPS..
CCP created the problem when making changes a year ago..
PS:BlackHorizon just don't like the drake at all.. that's why he's complaining :D
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Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.21 18:21:00 -
[171]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis The follow up really to this is should it be the only ship that does not have to choose between tank and gank. It is certain the range and buffer plus focused common skill set make it favourable for post-dominion fleet fights. and as I stated in my original post, the ship in small gangs or similar scenarios is more balanced since this focused setup is less appealing there where fights are close ranged and in smaller numbers where med slots count more.
Talking balance: Fitting any of the other class ships, you are instantly forced into a choice when trying to fit weapons of equivalent range and power. Most will sit at around half the EHP of the drake when trying to do so, whilst the combination of factors (lows for PDU and BCU) and med slots for tank enable it to deliver a pretty awesome package for fleet fights.
It is a hot topic internally as the number of drakes present in fleet fights is rising dramatically in the last six months and with this behaviour change we are witnessing a large impact on performance as the missile usage causes high additional load.
The reason you are seeing Drake + Scimitar fleets is because they are widely viewed as a workable counter to afterburning armor HAC + Guardian gangs, which will annihilate pretty much any any other fleet composition regardless of size if competently run.
To make this perfectly clear, AB armor HACs + Guardians basically killed off battleships in 0.0 fleet fights which in turn led to a rise in the number of drakefleets. Battleship-sized guns can't track AB armor HACs due to their small sig radius. Bombing armor HAC gangs isn't effective, again, due to sig radius.
If you nerf drakes without doing anything to address the basic issue with logistics and so forth 0.0 fleet warfare will be nothing but AB Armor Zealots + Guardians stomping a human face forever.
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Facepalm
Amarr Battlestars Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.21 18:27:00 -
[172]
Coming from an almost exclusively Amarr pilot, the drake is fine as is. Its low skillpoint requirements and low cost allow just about anyone to fly it which makes all levels of combat that much more fun and accessible. If you've learned anything about balancing in this game, any ship that has even a slight advantage will cause it to be the only ship allowed in fleets. Nerfing it will just bring another ship to the forefront.
Now if drakes had more of a requirement of skillpoints or cost, then it'd be more of a concern. If you want to do something about combat balance, take a look at supercarriers as a whole. A year from now the skies will be dominated with them as more and more alliances push for everyone to continue getting into them. Even in my alliance, with a relatively small and ineffective cap fleet, our forums are full of posts "encouraging" everyone to jump into these overpowered tombs asap. ------------
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Weeman
Caldari Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:22:00 -
[173]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis The follow up really to this is should it be the only ship that does not have to choose between tank and gank. It is certain the range and buffer plus focused common skill set make it favourable for post-dominion fleet fights. and as I stated in my original post, the ship in small gangs or similar scenarios is more balanced since this focused setup is less appealing there where fights are close ranged and in smaller numbers where med slots count more.
Talking balance: Fitting any of the other class ships, you are instantly forced into a choice when trying to fit weapons of equivalent range and power. Most will sit at around half the EHP of the drake when trying to do so, whilst the combination of factors (lows for PDU and BCU) and med slots for tank enable it to deliver a pretty awesome package for fleet fights.
It is a hot topic internally as the number of drakes present in fleet fights is rising dramatically in the last six months and with this behaviour change we are witnessing a large impact on performance as the missile usage causes high additional load.
lol. The reason drakes are used is because of ****ty servers. Fix lag and you dont need to fix drakes, its just as simple as that.
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Xyris Rixx
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:22:00 -
[174]
This is an absolute farce - for one there are three viable options for nullsec fleets:
Battleship gangs/fleets absolutely ream drake fleets - massive sig means large guns hit them hand and are able to alpha through a drake's recharge AND logistic support. On the other hand, armour Hac fleets smash Battleship fleets - to complete the circle Drake fleets (while not "the answer") can beat armour HAC fleets. In essence there is a balanced and well rounded set of options that require strategic choices to be made and increasing interaction between hostile fleets since turning up in mirror-image BS fleets is suboptimal.
Add to the fact that the DPS on a drake is actually fairly poor when compared so other battlecruisers - it is their high alpha that makes them viable, something which has only become significant in the post-dominion lagfest.
Finally consider what other options you have for Caldari pilots - ECM being an option is a joke now it has been nerfed, especially since ECM ships are forced to use tanking midslots for ECM (and armour tank too poorly for actual fleet combat). Missile boats generally do much worse DPS than their equivalents in other races, and using rails generally only get range bonus's over damage.
Caldari ships are almost always one of the poorest options in almost any ship class apart from battlecruisers - surprise surprise CCP want to nerf it!
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Kel'Taran
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:30:00 -
[175]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Nope, not at all, the balancing part as stated above is considered separate discussion which mostly revolves around class comparison and explaining popularity. We would definitely not nerf it because missiles caused load. That is a side effect on its own.
The load of missiles could be negated by giving us the same fake type of missiles that fighter bombers will be getting in order to reduce the server load. Outside that issue consider this the standard sentiment is caldari (missiles) suck for pvp because there is no instant damage like with turrets. If you make it harder to fit a decent drake it is almost certain that the usage of drakes will once again drop to pve only.
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Purrp Ledone
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:35:00 -
[176]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis It is a hot topic internally as the number of drakes present in fleet fights is rising dramatically in the last six months
TEST is about 6 months old... coincidence?
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Jion Tichy
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:57:00 -
[177]
You know, this type of thread, and FOTM worries in general, strike me as rather pointless for a variety of reasons already covered in this thread.
But I have to admit that the Drake tank is kind of insane. They take just an absurd amount of pounding for the price.
The ultimate outcome from these threads, though, is to have everything watered down and flavorless, nothing better at any given role than anything else. There are a number of ship configurations that absolutely massacre drakes, isk for isk. The fact that so many people field drakes makes these counters even more worthwhile to roll with.
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar Eighty Joule Brewery
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Posted - 2010.10.21 20:10:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 21/10/2010 20:15:35 Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 21/10/2010 20:12:04
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Talking balance: Fitting any of the other class ships, you are instantly forced into a choice when trying to fit weapons of equivalent range and power. Most will sit at around half the EHP of the drake when trying to do so, whilst the combination of factors (lows for PDU and BCU) and med slots for tank enable it to deliver a pretty awesome package for fleet fights.
Part of the problem here is that medium gun range is unreasonably short to begin with, except for Scorch-ammo Pulses, short range weapons even using their long range ammo have ridiculously short range for current fleet tactics and even NPC combat. Long range medium weapons give up a huge amount of damage to increase their range to anything reasonable. Maintaining range is challenging, long range guns don't need these huge penalties attached to them anymore, unless you want to cut the range of all missile systems in half to make them more comparable to guns(seriously don't do this, it would turn ratting/missions into pure pain).
If the heavy focus on medium ships being the best(no real T2 battleships so bs hulls will never be capable of matching hac tanks due to logistics making resists more important than ehp, T3 cruisers, etc) and most versatile class continues, you should really put some effort into evening up weapon ranges here.
And seriously. Fix blasters. 1/3 range, massive capacitor use, and tracking so bad you have to use webs or 3 tracking enhancers to hit appropriate-size targets with your full dps is not a reasonable sacrifice for +10% base dps.
The bottom line is that you need to adjust guns to be more competitive now that their instant damage is a mediocre benefit when killing someone is a matter of damage rate vs healing rate because of Logistics, not merely filling up a set bucket of ehp with damage.
Quote: the standard sentiment is caldari (missiles) suck for pvp because there is no instant damage like with turrets.
This is an artifact of the old system where you wanted to alpha someone for their total ehp as fast as possible, and then switch to the next target quickly. Logistics have significantly lengthened time-on-target, and to make matters worse, short range ships have become the tactic of the day.
People who still think that instant damage is the most important thing are stuck in the days of sniping battleships. When you're fighting at 50km instead of 200km and you have someone constantly repping your target, DPS is the most important stat by far, not alpha.
Missile/Shield ships excel at pure dps because they fit their tank in mids and their damage mods in lows and because missiles have better dps overall and historically. Basically, PvP has become more like PvE.
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Dr Cheeto
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.21 20:26:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Xyris Rixx This is an absolute farce - for one there are three viable options for nullsec fleets:
Battleship gangs/fleets absolutely ream drake fleets - massive sig means large guns hit them hand and are able to alpha through a drake's recharge AND logistic support. On the other hand, armour Hac fleets smash Battleship fleets - to complete the circle Drake fleets (while not "the answer") can beat armour HAC fleets. In essence there is a balanced and well rounded set of options that require strategic choices to be made and increasing interaction between hostile fleets since turning up in mirror-image BS fleets is suboptimal.
Add to the fact that the DPS on a drake is actually fairly poor when compared so other battlecruisers - it is their high alpha that makes them viable, something which has only become significant in the post-dominion lagfest.
Finally consider what other options you have for Caldari pilots - ECM being an option is a joke now it has been nerfed, especially since ECM ships are forced to use tanking midslots for ECM (and armour tank too poorly for actual fleet combat). Missile boats generally do much worse DPS than their equivalents in other races, and using rails generally only get range bonus's over damage.
Caldari ships are almost always one of the poorest options in almost any ship class apart from battlecruisers - surprise surprise CCP want to nerf it!
Not to mention that ECM simply does not work in high-lag situations.
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iJsn
Doom Guard Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.21 20:38:00 -
[180]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 20/10/2010 20:51:06 so instead of workaround the missile issue with nerfing drakes so they get less popular ... how about fixing missiles instead?
(and yes i use missile boats a lot, in different flavors)
All cards are on the table, we are merely analyzing for now with a high degree of concern its rapid rise in popularity and being open about it. The main two balancing points we are looking further at are its shield recharge and its ability to fit both for EHP and damage/damage projection very easily compared to others. The rest is scenario specific and not a fault of the drake.
Consider the two issues separate if you will, the balance vs the rest of the class and the load it creates in fleet fight scenarios. We do indeed hope to address all missiles at some point. This is merely a heads up on an early stage investigation where nothing is set in stone.
CCP worries way too much about nerfing things instead of bringing other races (who are in dire need of a face lift) upto par with other races . If they fixed other races there would be more options for people to find counters ...
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