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Joran Jagg	Posted - 2010.10.07 09:59:00 - [1] Hey guys, I will be able to fly a tengu correctly very soon and since I plan at first on doing high sec missions in mission hubs (all the good high level agents are in crowded hubs these days...) I wanted have some basic tips to avoid getting suicide ganked ?
Manipulator General o.0	Posted - 2010.10.07 10:26:00 - [2] You could always use a quiet station in the mission system, and take a shuttle to and from the mission station. That'd be a start.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.07 10:30:00 - [3] (1) Dont pimp your fit more than it actually needs. You dont need X-type hardeners and officer BCUs. (2) Dont mission in the very popular hubs. (3) Dont brag about your fit. It's a secret, right? (4) Remember that implants and T2 rigs dont attract gankers. Invest in those rather than modules where practical. (5) Dont. Autopilot. Ever. No exception, no "just this once", no excuses. If your girlfriends demands your sweet loving this instant, then you LOG OUT and finish travelling later. (6) Move away from the warpin spots. You'll be fitting an afterburner anyway, so use it. (7) Activate your hardeners when travelling to/from missions, likewise top your shield up when returning. (8) Have a plan of what you're going to do if attacked. eg: Attacked on a gate? Burn to the gate (at least it keeps your traversal up). (9) Keep an eye on local. An influx of skulls should activate your spider-sense! Likewise an unusual concentration of high-alpha ships outside the station when you dock up or warp to a gate should also be a danger sign not to be discounted. (10) If you suspect a trap, then you're probably right. Keep a mission-fit drake handy and mission in that for when you're feeling edgy. Nothing more satisfying than undocking in a drake, seeing half a dozen tempests outside waiting for you, yellow-box, then do nothing as you saunter off in your worthless T2-fit battlecruiser. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
vordoa	Posted - 2010.10.07 10:31:00 - [4] A quiet system would be safest, but if you want to stay in the mission hub, then don't fit any expensive modules so won't be worth ganking you
Kizahhan	Posted - 2010.10.07 11:00:00 - [5] Fly a tengu... O wait nevermind
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.07 11:52:00 - [6] Makes it kinda pointless to have a T3 imho if you can be alpha ganked when you are undocking. I mean what's the point when 95% of these ships will be missioning ships and you cant "PIMP YOUR RIDE"? I personally feel this is a broken part of the game where the "best" ships pop before you can see whats going on. Makes them a bit of a non-ship if you ask me.
KeyserSoze	Posted - 2010.10.07 12:18:00 - [7] 20 ships shouldnt be able to gank 1 ship? Thats a broken game mechanic!
Master Dodge Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.07 12:20:00 - [8] Agreed completely on that front, the fact that if a group of people are determined to gank you there is basically nothing you can do except not play the game for a bit and hope they get bored, ( i see this enough in wardec corps sometimes). I wish they would sort this and on topic to OP sorry you'll just have to follow the normal advice and try not to annoy anyone too greatly making this style of attack much greater chance.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.07 13:01:00 - [9] Originally by: KeyserSoze 20 ships shouldn't be able to gank 1 ship? Thats a broken game mechanic! Don't be silly. If it took 20 ships to gank a mission T3 it wouldn't be worth ganking them in the first place
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.10.07 13:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Sendraks on 07/10/2010 13:12:24 Edited by: Sendraks on 07/10/2010 13:11:10 Originally by: Hephaesteus Don't be silly. If it took 20 ships to gank a mission T3 it wouldn't be worth ganking them in the first place Depends on the fit of the T3. Tech 1 BS are not expensive these days and anyone interested in ganking will, most likely, have a cheap supply ready to go. If the fitting of the gank target will still result in a net profit, then it is worth ganking. This isn't a broken mechanic, it is risk vs reward. If a player wants the rewards of the high quality agents in hi sec, found in the busy mission hubs, then you run the risk of being a gank target. Especially if you seriously pimp your ship. If you pimp your ship and people find out, you're at risk anywhere, unless you're docked. Fortunately EvE is a sandbox game and you have options to mitigate that risk, so anyone who says "there is nothing you can do" is talking BS.

Limdood	Posted - 2010.10.07 13:17:00 - [11] the problem isn't that 20 ships can kill 1 ship. The problem is that other than making your ship "not worth killing" by fitting intentionally worse modules, or simply getting lucky or not being where alpha ships are waiting. It feels wrong that there is no defense vs. the tengu-gank. There is no way to effectively suicide gank the people back, as even assuming you got enough people together to do it, and do it successfully, they were going to lose their ship anyways, and its no different being suicided in that ship as it is failing a suicide attempt on someone.
Bernard Schuyler	Posted - 2010.10.07 13:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Limdood the problem isn't that 20 ships can kill 1 ship. The problem is that other than making your ship "not worth killing" by fitting intentionally worse modules, or simply getting lucky or not being where alpha ships are waiting. It feels wrong that there is no defense vs. the tengu-gank. There is no way to effectively suicide gank the people back, as even assuming you got enough people together to do it, and do it successfully, they were going to lose their ship anyways, and its no different being suicided in that ship as it is failing a suicide attempt on someone. The "problem" such as it is, is less that suicide ganking can happen but it is that Tengus are Cruisers, and therefore that much more succeptible to ganks. Now that people have figured out how fragile they can be compared to say a Marauder, it has become open season. I would concur that the unique mechanics of Suicide Ganking do make it very difficult to defend against, but I am not sure what could possibly be done about that without very significant mechanics changes.
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.10.07 13:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Limdood The problem is that other than making your ship "not worth killing" by fitting intentionally worse modules, or simply getting lucky or not being where alpha ships are waiting. I disagree. You can pimp your ship, but you need to take steps to mitigate against people having the opportunity to gank it. The first logical step is to run missions away from the main mission hubs, where scouts for gank squads are less likely to be watching. Yes, the rewards are less, but so are your risks. That is risk vs reward for you. If you want to run missions in the busy hubs, you can still take precautions. Using an alt or a friend to scout the gates and outside stations for potential trouble. Using insta warps on undock etc etc. Basically take the same kind of precautions you would in low sec. Originally by: Limdood It feels wrong that there is no defense vs. the tengu-gank. There is no real defense beyond destroying them before they can destroy you. Which I accept that is not going to be practical in most cases. Really this is an exercise in mitigation vs defense and that is a valid position to take. If you're going to argue that risk mitigation should not be a factor of hi sec missioning, then you're moving onto shaky ground at best. Originally by: Limdood There is no way to effectively suicide gank the people back, as even assuming you got enough people together to do it, and do it successfully, they were going to lose their ship anyways, and its no different being suicided in that ship as it is failing a suicide attempt on someone. If they're doing it through alts in NPC corps then you're right, there is no way round it. It is a sad abuse of the game mechanics. There are some who use mains for ganking and operate out of player corps rather than NPC corps. I'm sure they would welcome a war dec for you to seek your revenge.
Nimsir	Posted - 2010.10.07 17:54:00 - [14] Edited by: Nimsir on 07/10/2010 17:55:56 There are a number of things you can do to minimize the risks of running missions in a Tengu 1. This has been mentioned many times but, don't mission in the main mission hubs. If you get popped in Motsu don't come complaining. 2. Omni tank your Tengu for missions you don't need the extra tank of rat specific hardeners. Most gankers are going to use EM ammo, which means if you are tanking Therm / Kinetic you're screwed. When I use a Tengu I use a Invul field, and 2 hardeners normally. Lately with all the gankings going on I have been using 2 invul and 1 EM for nearly all missions. 3. Keep you hardeners active all the time. Most of the ganks seem to be taking place outside stations or at gates. 4. Switch out your AB for a LSE. There are only a few missions that I use my afterburner. So I have been switching it out for a shield extender for more buffer. 5. Fit more buffer. If you find yourself not needing the insane amount of active tank, switch some for buffer in the form of switching out the Amp Node, for the Supplemental Screening subsystem. 6. Gang bonuses. Doing this can take you from 12-15k EHP vs. EM to 60-70k vs. EM. So instead of 2 T1 fit Tempest, its going to take 8-10. Yes you can still be ganked, but not by some dude 2 boxing.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2010.10.07 18:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Nimsir 3. Keep you hardeners active all the time. Most of the ganks seem to be taking place outside stations or at gates. Another thing that would help... Go get a shuttle or Interceptor, and make an undock BM for the agent's station. Be sure to place it over 500km directly out from the exit. That way you can either warp immediately, or align slightly and then warp. And the distance ensures you vanish off Overview. - One Button Extractors Explosions! ORE Field Offices
Hunter Ace Gallente Mega Force	Posted - 2010.10.07 19:31:00 - [16] Is there anyway to tell who's lingering outside the station you're in while you're docked?
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.10.07 20:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Hunter Ace Is there anyway to tell who's lingering outside the station you're in while you're docked? Have a friend or an alt scouting outside the station for you.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.07 20:18:00 - [18] It would be a lot better to not let your ship appear before you can see what the hell is going on. Least that way you would have a fighting chance instead of the one sided totally skewed way it is at the moment.
Nimsir	Posted - 2010.10.07 20:42:00 - [19] Guys you really shouldn't have a problem with getting ganked after undocking. Simply understanding the mechanics should make you invincible on undock unless you are using one of those wacky 'undock you out of docking range' stations. As long as you don't activate any modules, warp, or click in space you are untargetable for you session change timer after undocking. If there is a gank squad outside, simply stop and wait for the 30 seconds to pass and then dock up.
Joran Jagg	Posted - 2010.10.07 21:06:00 - [20] Thanks for the helpful advice ! Now, onto my choice of agent, which one should I choose Reward & LP wise ? - Agent A, Q18, in a 0.5 system with no low-sec access. Pretty crowded as there are 18 player ship kills over the last 24 hours and 27000 npc kills or - Agent B, Q16, in a 0.7 system. A lot less crowded: 4 player kills / 10000 npc kills over the past 24h.

Misanthra	Posted - 2010.10.07 23:35:00 - [21] Edited by: Misanthra on 07/10/2010 23:36:33 Originally by: Hephaesteus Makes it kinda pointless to have a T3 imho if you can be alpha ganked when you are undocking. I mean what's the point when 95% of these ships will be missioning ships and you cant "PIMP YOUR RIDE"? I personally feel this is a broken part of the game where the "best" ships pop before you can see whats going on. Makes them a bit of a non-ship if you ask me. just have to fly more paranoid is all. More you got on the ship, more you should be paying attention to your surroundings. Safer systems help. May mean you are not getting the best LP rewards working for the scrub corps in whatever faction (your main mission hubs have the most lucrative lp agents most times). Also when you get to T3 should have skill playing, to include pvp. Got a ship that is a target...pvp chance increases alot. Not saying go off and join a pvp corp....but at least read the numerous blogs out there, all you need to know about how camps and gankers work and ways to deal with them are out there. If not appealing might I recommend a T2 fit navy scorpion. It tanks like a beast and most gankers will scan down a bs before engaging. Unless you have really ****ed off the griefer crew in the area, being t2 and very strong tank will move you below the tengu's and CNR's (most CNR uber fits I have seen focus on dps, tank not so good like that).
Takemikazuki	Posted - 2010.10.08 08:25:00 - [22] If you want to be a bit lame and have the means: have a friend/alt/slave in an Orca. To accept/complete missions at station, use a shuttle or something. Then switch to your Pimpu at the Orca to do the actual mission.
Dreadmaster Fluffy	Posted - 2010.10.08 08:48:00 - [23] You can also switch to a T2 fit marauder that is tougher, more profitable, and salvages on the go. I don't understand the appeal of T3 ships for high sec missions.
Reeptyle	Posted - 2010.10.08 10:17:00 - [24] you can also do what people in wardec situations/lowsec/nullsec do. Create an instawarp, from your mission station, for about 300km. That way you can go into warp instantly (with 90% chance to warp before they can fire a single shot at you).
Olastyr	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Nimsir Guys you really shouldn't have a problem with getting ganked after undocking. Simply understanding the mechanics should make you invincible on undock unless you are using one of those wacky 'undock you out of docking range' stations. As long as you don't activate any modules, warp, or click in space you are untargetable for you session change timer after undocking. If there is a gank squad outside, simply stop and wait for the 30 seconds to pass and then dock up. I can be wrong but i wouldn't touch anything while invicible, don't even fart.
Dreadmaster Fluffy	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:44:00 - [26] You can hit CTRL - space while the screen is black, a few seconds before the external area loads, to stop your ship without losing the 30 secs of protection. Or so they say.
Nomad Vherokic	Posted - 2010.10.08 14:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Dreadmaster Fluffy You can hit CTRL - space while the screen is black, a few seconds before the external area loads, to stop your ship without losing the 30 secs of protection. Or so they say. Sssshhhh... don't tell them that.... ;)
Anne Alingus	Posted - 2010.10.09 09:39:00 - [28] LoL http://www.battlestars-online.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=39850
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.10.09 11:47:00 - [29] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 09/10/2010 11:49:01 Originally by: Dreadmaster Fluffy You can hit CTRL - space while the screen is black, a few seconds before the external area loads, to stop your ship without losing the 30 secs of protection. Or so they say. and activate hardeners/tank (well not sure if still black screened, but you can activate hardeners without losing the 30s invlun)
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.09 12:03:00 - [30] If i was scared of loosing a ship to gankers i would keep my ship in a different station to the agent, and get my mission from the station in a shuttle or something. Make a insta undock BM 300km directly in front of the station and always keep my hardeners running when i have to go near any undesirables. tbh tho, there is no point whatsoever in faction fitting a t3 ship do do missions in, if you do, you deserve to get ganked.



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