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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
dankness420
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Posted - 2010.10.12 20:49:00 -
[31]
one of the problems is that there is just no demand for the massive amount of R4s and R8s being mined. there also is barely any demand for some of the R16s and R32s.
CCP should introduce more activities in order to use up some of these products which are produced in a greater supply then we could ever hope to use.
Add more stuff like T2 probes and probe launchers, drone modules, capital (and named) t2 modules, etc.
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.10.12 20:52:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: dankness420
one of the problems is that there is just no demand for the massive amount of R4s and R8s being mined. there also is barely any demand for some of the R16s and R32s.
CCP should introduce more activities in order to use up some of these products which are produced in a greater supply then we could ever hope to use.
Add more stuff like T2 probes and probe launchers, drone modules, capital (and named) t2 modules, etc.
you have seen what happens when ccp tries to add something to eve or even try to FIX IT for that matter...
and you ramble off a list of what you would like them to screw up next?
sheesh you really do belong in eve...
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Tom Sasaki
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Posted - 2010.10.12 20:53:00 -
[33]
You are aware that the only kind of moons to provide a substantial income are in the north and owned by one coalition of alliances?
The rest will barely earn you more than 1 dedicated ratter at 10% tax per month.
For the rest of 0.0 you actually need to have renters/ratters or find other ways to profit from your space.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:03:00 -
[34]
I've never belonged to a major (or anything but tiny) alliance but I don't begrudge people who manage to finagle hundreds of fellow internet nerds into providing security for them while they make tens or hundreds of billions of ISK.
There should be SOMETHING in nullsec worth fighting over and if alliance drones don't insist on their share, well, too bad.
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Susung
Alt Anti-defamation League
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Posted - 2010.10.13 03:01:00 -
[35]
I don't mean tech and dyspro in high sec by any means, the moons in high sec are already seeded with good old normal stuff, as it should be. That one item seems to be a sticking point for alot of people it was only an after thought, that is becoming a distraction.
Small alliances getting steamrolled over a high end moon would happen but they would take some work to find. Moon surveying takes time and is god awfull boring, some systems got a GOB of moons I don't envy that job. 
You could increase the number of possible items on each moon and spread the high ends out a bit more. Plus it would give ccp better market control than they have now. There is really no reason an alliance renting 1 null sec system shouldnt be able to at least build their racial t2 plates.
A gradient increase in cost to alliances who hold multiple systems or a distance/cost system where it is cheaper to hold within your own "home" constellation wouldn't bother me at all either.
As far as cheating on taxes that is always gonna be possible no way to make somebody be honest, you can boot deadbeats tho
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.10.13 11:05:00 -
[36]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.14 00:06:00 -
[37]
comets should have been put in and farmable would have made things less reliant on poses whcih are still useful as research, combat staging posts and the like. Guess ccp didnt think ot if with comets u would find what u needed and farm it the supply and demand would take care of itself but instead they pandered to 00 allainces, left low sec alone nerfed it a bit
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.10.14 01:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
I don't think CCP delivered on a single promise with the 'revamped' 0.0 Dominion sov system. Moving Sov from multiple towers to one huge tower with more reinforcement towers and moving the dyspro gold mines to tech gold mines didn't do squat. Most disappointing expansion of all time imo.
Almost a full year since dominion is out and we have the same giant power blocks taking up >90% of 0.0 space in the same locations, but don't worry guys we have sansa pve motherships coming!
/end bitterness
So true.
That's what you get for trying to reinvent the wheel instead of tweaking and making some intelligent changes.
The new system wasn't thought through entirely.
Yes, it's now easier for small alliances to get into 0.0. As pets, meatshields, renters if you prefer that term.
But it's not easier to hold it.
The whole issue has been underestimated, and then people tried to solve two issues at once. One being dull and awkward 0.0 sov warfare. The other being small alliances vs. big power blocks.
The latter is simply a matter of logistics. If it's that easy and .. convenient to eradicate an opponent off the map, then you'll do it.
The only real defense for small alliances would be expenditure. Too much expenditure for a small fish => no mopping up.
But instead someone thought that 'making room' would be sufficient.. ^^ Yeah, right.
Well, perhapps it has never been the plan to enable small alliances to gain a foothold in 0.0. Who knows.
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
zcar300
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.14 21:16:00 -
[39]
My problem with moon mining is that all the good moons are taken. Ever try looking for a tech moon? From what I found there are a couple alliances that control all of them.
And it takes forever to scan all the moons in a region.
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Fournone
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Posted - 2010.10.15 02:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Liang Nuren
TBH the best solution would be to have alternate sources for moon goo - either PI, asteroids, or even "gas" mining.
-Liang
Shove it into low sec only and we got a deal.
I'm in.
Originally by: Vaal Erit
I don't think CCP delivered on a single promise with the 'revamped' 0.0 Dominion sov system. Moving Sov from multiple towers to one huge tower with more reinforcement towers and moving the dyspro gold mines to tech gold mines didn't do squat. Most disappointing expansion of all time imo.
Almost a full year since dominion is out and we have the same giant power blocks taking up >90% of 0.0 space in the same locations, but don't worry guys we have sansa pve motherships coming!
/end bitterness
/me sheds tear.
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Susung
Alt Anti-defamation League
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Posted - 2010.10.15 20:27:00 -
[41]
The reason for holding space is the same as it has always been moon goo. Not defensibility or quality. Upgrading is nice for members but it does little to help an alliance.
Until the system is changed to add more revenue streams for alliances and their big moon teet is taken away that is not gonna change.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.10.15 22:33:00 -
[42]
:2cents:
They drive conflict this is true, and technetium is in the fairly strong grip of a stable coalition source and group of investors trading on margins and creating bubbles which rarely get burst. In general, we want to add more chaos and variation to the system and it's long overdue, even implementing seasonality to supply rates so many things are naturally dynamic (talking about the many things we seed through mechanics) as generally variation or chaos in the system simply makes it way more interesting overall.
It would definitely be good to add a dynamic source of moon goo to the static source and there has been many ideas in the past we have each of us talked about before such as comets for example. The addition of spherical harmonics does open up a few avenues for creating 3D resource distributions within an object.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.15 22:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: darius mclever on 15/10/2010 22:42:58
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
:2cents:
They drive conflict this is true, and technetium is in the fairly strong grip of a stable coalition source and group of investors trading on margins and creating bubbles which rarely get burst. In general, we want to add more chaos and variation to the system and it's long overdue, even implementing seasonality to supply rates so many things are naturally dynamic (talking about the many things we seed through mechanics) as generally variation or chaos in the system simply makes it way more interesting overall.
It would definitely be good to add a dynamic source of moon goo to the static source and there has been many ideas in the past we have each of us talked about before such as comets for example. The addition of spherical harmonics does open up a few avenues for creating 3D resource distributions within an object.
Why not combine the technology you create for PI with moon mining? so moons have different layers of stones. so once you burned through a layer of e.g. technetium, you might get a layer of caesium or even veldspar.
with scanning and repositioning the mining spot on the moon, you can put it back on your most desired material.
that would even take out the passive out of moon mining to some degree.
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Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.10.17 02:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: darius mclever
Edited by: darius mclever on 15/10/2010 22:42:58
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
:2cents:
They drive conflict this is true, and technetium is in the fairly strong grip of a stable coalition source and group of investors trading on margins and creating bubbles which rarely get burst. In general, we want to add more chaos and variation to the system and it's long overdue, even implementing seasonality to supply rates so many things are naturally dynamic (talking about the many things we seed through mechanics) as generally variation or chaos in the system simply makes it way more interesting overall.
It would definitely be good to add a dynamic source of moon goo to the static source and there has been many ideas in the past we have each of us talked about before such as comets for example. The addition of spherical harmonics does open up a few avenues for creating 3D resource distributions within an object.
Why not combine the technology you create for PI with moon mining? so moons have different layers of stones. so once you burned through a layer of e.g. technetium, you might get a layer of caesium or even veldspar.
with scanning and repositioning the mining spot on the moon, you can put it back on your most desired material.
that would even take out the passive out of moon mining to some degree.
Why not combine comets and 3d resource redistribution?
One, you now have the resource "out there" (comets) and not "right there" (moons). So, that immediately requires scanning and an acitve player. With the 3d resource distribution you can use a new type of mining module (would you use a miner II to mine moon goo?) and maybe have it moving inside the comet (rotating) so that it requires an active human player (harder to macro/bot)to mine. I would also say to keep the more valuable stuff in the actual comet requiring the new mining system and the other stuff can just be the "ejaculate" for us to scoop up 
Also, don't have the comets disappear, just have them moving from system to system while replenishing it's valuable moon goo  Give the comets actual names too (like the Hale-Bopp) so its a little more epic. Maybe put a new addition to the ihub's that is a long distance tracking beam that gives a better chance of having a comet come to your system. This creates two ways of getting moon goo... using the ihub (passive)... and chasing them down (active).
Just my ":2cents:"
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.17 02:47:00 -
[45]
sure comet mining is fine too, but i think putting some more activity into the moon mining part cant harm either. imagine you come back after a few weeks and notice that your moon miner mined veldspar for the last 2 weeks because you forgot to reposition it.
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Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.10.17 04:33:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Elzon1 on 17/10/2010 04:35:05
Originally by: darius mclever
sure comet mining is fine too, but i think putting some more activity into the moon mining part cant harm either. imagine you come back after a few weeks and notice that your moon miner mined veldspar for the last 2 weeks because you forgot to reposition it.
POS's were really setup as a passive game mechanic in the beginning. Such variations actually could harm the market for moon minerals overall due to their being a limited supply from the very beginning. If you have variation without it possibly being able to add more minerals during the process then you can only hurt the supply of moon goo which causes a price hike which can be monopolized upon by creating a permanent bubble.
If both comets and the suggested moon mechanic were added at the same time where is your baseline supply to make a stable price? Moons should serve as the stabilizing market force so that things don't get too crazy. Moon minerals are needed to produce t2 ships as was well as t2 modules, think about what effects such a destabilization could cause. The market probably couldn't handle such variability and worst of all the little guys would feel the effects of this more than the big alliances would so this really wouldn't level the playing field at all.
However, just adding comets with more moon goo to be randomly harvested can only increase the supply of moon goo on the market as well as cause the prices to drop. Comets can cause market fluctuations, but the general trend will be for prices to drop which helps the little people and cuts the big alliance's passive profits. The big alliances could always blob the comets of course, but that could cause massive losses on both sides while no mining gets done because of lag
I hope comets could be added soon (was shown in 2009 CCP presents) so that prices can drop. The way things are going t1 prices are going through the floor while t2 prices get pinned to moon mineral supply and the invention process. Its either the moon mineral supply must increase or the invention system must be reworked/replaced. (I still don't understand why we can't just take a module/ship and a few bpc's and end up making a bpo... patents shouldn't exist in eve!)
Summary:
Moon variation... probably not.
Comets... yes.
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Susung
Alt Anti-defamation League
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Posted - 2010.10.18 13:45:00 -
[47]
Quote:
POS's were really setup as a passive game mechanic in the beginning. Such variations actually could harm the market for moon minerals overall due to their being a limited supply from the very beginning
Harming the market for moon minerals? How do you harm the market? Certainly it would fluctuate as seen by the pos fuel\PI relationship. I don't call that harming. I call that making it dynamic, giving it legitimacy. Remember in this little world we do have gods and they do pay attention. CCP would have better control over the market not worse in the long run.
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If both comets and the suggested moon mechanic were added at the same time where is your baseline
Your baseline is a set in stone number. The number it has been for the last six years or so.
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The market probably couldn't handle such variability and worst of all the little guys would feel the effects of this more than the big alliances would so this really wouldn't level the playing field at all.
Fear marketing I hate it. The market in eve isn't by any means weak it's strength is its flexibility. People would make isk, people would lose isk, big or small it would matter how well they predicted changes. Not in how big their arse was and how many moons it could perma-suck
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adding comets with more moon goo to be randomly harvested can only increase the supply of moon goo on the market as well as cause the prices to drop.
I agree. With an ever growing playerbase and a static supply it will cause inflation. I don't think the T2 market is particularly inflated now however.
As long as you have static supply there will be a floor, its no different really than NPC shuttles. Heck make high ends like ore every moon has a little some have more and all deplete. That would be a frightening change But it would be player control over supply something CCP preaches.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.10.25 14:18:00 -
[48]
more alchemy options should help too 
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.10.26 06:03:00 -
[49]
I've been saying the same for years as well. CCP is rather stubborn and likes to adhere to thier... well whatever you wanna call some of thier really jacked up notions.
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Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 08:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Elzon1 on 26/10/2010 08:13:32
Edited by: Elzon1 on 26/10/2010 08:12:22
Quote:
Harming the market for moon minerals? How do you harm the market? Certainly it would fluctuate as seen by the pos fuel\PI relationship. I don't call that harming. I call that making it dynamic, giving it legitimacy. Remember in this little world we do have gods and they do pay attention. CCP would have better control over the market not worse in the long run.
With moon minerals there is a limited supply with a fairly strong demand. Lets say the supply falls temporarily... then the price would rise. Now lets say after a considerable rise in prices occur that the supply comes back to meet demand, but not more  What does that mean? Permanently higher prices for moon minerals, without any way to lower the prices except to supply more moon goo... which doesn't exist
Do you now see how "certain organizations" created a permanent bubble in moon goo prices?
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Your baseline is a set in stone number. The number it has been for the last six years or so.
Are you confusing this with mineral base prices due to insurance? I don't think moon minerals have a price floor/ceiling enforced by npc's or am I missing something?
What I meant by baseline was a stable moon goo output, which would not exist if moons were made variable. As described earlier (and even with comets in the mix) supply could drop causing a price increase. Then, the supply could once again stabalize, but with a much higher price that could be enforced by certain people hogging the supply... if possible
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Fear marketing I hate it
But, it brought such nice things
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The market in eve isn't by any means weak it's strength is its flexibility.
Not with moon goo its not
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People would make isk
The big alliances only
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people would lose isk
People who regularly but tech 2 ships and mods
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big or small it would matter how well they predicted changes
Yeah, but for those who knew it was coming will only get a small window to increase their isk and thats it... just a small opening Of course for those who rose those prices will be able to know when the market jumps so they can invest and they will be pulling in a massive passive revenue stream, the little guys just can't get access to this today.
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Not in how big their arse was and how many moons it could perma-suck
In reality, thats all that matter nowadays
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As long as you have static supply there will be a floor
Thats the point I was trying to make
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its no different really than NPC shuttles
That really is a strech of the imagination my friend
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Heck make high ends like ore every moon has a little some have more and all deplete
Not a bad idea, just make sure you have to scan for every little piece of moon goo so as to slow macros/botters. Perhaps also make a new fast cycling module with very low yield for ninja sucking someone's high end moon goo
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That would be a frightening change
I for one, welcome the moon goo ninjas
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