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Torothin
Amarr
Trans-Solar Works
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.10.12 17:42:00 -
[1]
First off,
This is a great game. I have been "eveing" it up for 7 years now. I have met a lot of very cool people and have had a lot of fun. My funnest times seem to be back in the 03/04/05/06 era when your alliance ticker was in your Bio does anyone remember those good old days? I watched in amazement when there were 10k people online at once. I thought to myself how much bigger could this game get? Now I find myself logging on once a month if that. I really don't have time to contribute to any major alliance ops mainly because I am not willing to sit infront of my computer for a 3-5 hour CTA. Solo pvp is pretty much dead and you are gaurunteed to run into a 12 man roaming gang(at the least) in any 0.0 incursion. Everyone has a titan now and my caps run the risk of getting 1 volleyed. ABC ore is everywhere, I sometimes find myself in a system with 1200 people in it and it takes me 10 minutes to activate a module. Thank you CCP for this great game but like many others have stated I have lost interest. Good luck to everyone and fly safe!
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Scatim Helicon
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.12 17:43:00 -
[2]
I, too, am old and bitter
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Scatim Helicon
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.12 17:44:00 -
[3]
also gay
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Artemis97
Caldari
Did I just do that
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.12 17:48:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Scatim Helicon
also gay
Confirming that Scatim is gay
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ThrashPower
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.10.12 17:49:00 -
[5]
get out
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 17:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dark Motoko on 12/10/2010 17:56:41
You have a few good points. But going from 10k players online to 40-45k regularly... there was never any way we wouldn't see a large increase in gang sizes, so yes, solo pvp - while it does stll happen - happens to a far lesser degree.
Established alliances have held high value moons for so long that supercapitals are now rife, to the point where conventional dread fleets can be obliterated for very few losses, making commanders begin to consider them less and less relevant on the battlefield. Personally, I don't really see the major power blocks being removed militarily, because after all this time, they have the funding reserve now to make any loss in battle that we'd consider large, financially meaningless. I mean... do you really see the NC being removed? Or the russians in the drone regions?
Let's face it, some of the largest shifts of alliance stability in recent history have been down to people disbanding alliances via espionage rather than combat. It's actually been quite refreshing to see -A- begin to die off, to let us know something like this can still happen... when a dozen alliances are involved and their allies turn on them at least.
I do actually miss the days when war could involve just a pair of alliances without large blocks of allies being dragged in.
Just the nature of the beast really. Eve has become somewhat... 'saturated' I guess is the best word I can think of for it.
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Miagi Sans
Amarr
PURgE-Corp
PURgE Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.12 18:45:00 -
[7]
I agree with alot that has been said. While i havenot been as long as you have, i been here for 2 years roughly, the number of people playing has exploded..and it has good and bad consequences to it.
We do have a larger number of caps now than we did, but we also have greater numbers of players playing. Proportionally as population increases, so does wealth and ships...so granted we will have larger caps.
More people also means more people playing together, so its alot harder to find the "lone wolf" pvp, especially since alliances and corps stress killboard numbers (stupidly i might add).
My real complaint with population is that null sec is held by a few large alliances who have a strangle hold on space. A smaller alliance will never be able to have their own little lot of land to call home because of this..without having to pay another for use of the space...even if the larger alliance isnt using it.
I would love EVE null sec to be littered with thousands of small alliances duking it out...rather than a handful of larger alliances dictating who can live in unused space and charging you at the same time to use it. I can understand the tech moons or r64 systems....those are vital for the large alliance growth.
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KurmoL
Caldari
B4D W0LF
Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.10.12 18:56:00 -
[8]
in a thread created in standard 'confusion' by trash in effort to 'whine' about 'changes' there is no interest from the general eve comunity. in my previous corp, domesticated pussies would be kicked after they contaminated the rest with their stench and crying, reducing them to wild pussies. perhaps by the weekend it's time to refuel the tanker.
in short; goodbye.
THISSS! |
Whalles Bloomfield'III
Caldari
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.10.12 19:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Whalles Bloomfield''III on 12/10/2010 19:05:34
Originally by: Dark Motoko
Let's face it, some of the largest shifts of alliance stability in recent history have been down to people disbanding alliances via espionage rather than combat. It's actually been quite refreshing to see -A- begin to die off, to let us know something like this can still happen... when a dozen alliances are involved and their allies turn on them at least.
-A- simple left space. We moved out all stuff 2 weeks before first systems were attacked. EvE is all about the endless battles between giant blobs of blue. We tried to make it interesting again by neuting most of our neighbors but see how that went :) 0.0 alliances have become happy with not having to worry about enemys next door. Alliance wars, birth and death are like Ocean waves moving back and forth in slow and giant motions.
Is this good ?? Is it bad ?? who knows, who cares just play or go wait for Cataclysm. its out 12-7-2010
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Gobbins
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.10.12 19:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Whalles Bloomfield'III
Edited by: Whalles Bloomfield''III on 12/10/2010 19:05:34
Originally by: Dark Motoko
Let's face it, some of the largest shifts of alliance stability in recent history have been down to people disbanding alliances via espionage rather than combat. It's actually been quite refreshing to see -A- begin to die off, to let us know something like this can still happen... when a dozen alliances are involved and their allies turn on them at least.
-A- simple left space. We moved out all stuff 2 weeks before first systems were attacked. EvE is all about the endless battles between giant blobs of blue. We tried to make it interesting again by neuting most of our neighbors but see how that went :) 0.0 alliances have become happy with not having to worry about enemys next door. Alliance wars, birth and death are like Ocean waves moving back and forth in slow and giant motions.
Is this good ?? Is it bad ?? who knows, who cares just play or go wait for Cataclysm. its out 12-7-2010
didntwantthatspaceanyways.jpg
- Gob
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Hyveres
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.12 20:18:00 -
[11]
Well what gobbins says might be true. But there have been very few dead -A- Capitals and supercapitals. Ofcourse with the forces arrayed against them deploying capitals would be pretty high risk.
"Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot."
- Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Rutoo
Gallente
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 20:47:00 -
[12]
Back when going 20-30 jumps for a fight wasn't far!
Today, people cringe in allaince when we have to travel more than 10.
_________________________________________________________
My Second EvE Video
Club Seals Not Sandwichs
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Joe Censored
Caldari
Unknown-Entity
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Torothin
First off,
This is a great game. I have been "eveing" it up for 7 years now. I have met a lot of very cool people and have had a lot of fun. My funnest times seem to be back in the 03/04/05/06 era when your alliance ticker was in your Bio does anyone remember those good old days? I watched in amazement when there were 10k people online at once. I thought to myself how much bigger could this game get? Now I find myself logging on once a month if that. I really don't have time to contribute to any major alliance ops mainly because I am not willing to sit infront of my computer for a 3-5 hour CTA. Solo pvp is pretty much dead and you are gaurunteed to run into a 12 man roaming gang(at the least) in any 0.0 incursion. Everyone has a titan now and my caps run the risk of getting 1 volleyed. ABC ore is everywhere, I sometimes find myself in a system with 1200 people in it and it takes me 10 minutes to activate a module. Thank you CCP for this great game but like many others have stated I have lost interest. Good luck to everyone and fly safe!
TLDR: Things change and I am not willing nor able to adapt - blaming CCP for my failings is easier
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Minigin
Caldari
Trinity Corp
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:27:00 -
[14]
do you want to hear what has happend to this game?
there are coalitions that put together 60 man "roaming gangs" that camp entry gates to their own space. i had the pleasure of listening to one today where i litteraly heard the fc say in the space of a min, how they could not find anyone willing to fight their gang because of its size and in the same sentence asking for more logistics ships to join his gang.
the best part of all this is people not only let this happen and think this is the normal state of the game, but they encourage it at expence of their own time and enjoyment.
you have the power to change this... but you wont...
and we wonder why the old school people are leaving en-masse.
.
THE ORIGINAL COLOUR POSTER!
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D |
Maximilian Black
Gallente
Techno-Wizard Industrial Technologies
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:27:00 -
[15]
The sov mechanic changes where allegedly going to help small alliances develop in 0.0, but after watching the sov map updates over the last six months, it's pretty obvious that the sov changes really did nothing of the sort. As previous posters have pointed out, it does indeed seem that espionage, treachery and long vacations have done more to change sov holdings than anything CCP did.
Also concur that it's looking nigh impossible for a small alliance move into 0.0 without becoming a pet of a bigger alliance. How in the world can any new small alliance stand up to the gargantuan fleets that the megablock alliances can field within hours? They can't. This is pretty disheartening to those that would like to try and forge their own little corner of EVE. A small alliance can spend months and months trying to carve out their niche, and on a whim a big alliance can swoop in and take them out in a couple days. To me, the aspect of EVE's play balancing is way, way, way out of whack.
Methinks it's time for CCP to nerf moon mats, increase the cost/time/requirements for building supercaps and titans. Yup, these alliances may be rich, so make them burn through their cash faster by increasing their costs. Of course, the downside there is that also makes it harder for small alliances to build supercaps and titans. Sigh.
Oh, what the hell, never mind... ;)
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Minigin
do you want to hear what has happend to this game?
there are coalitions that put together 60 man "roaming gangs" that camp entry gates to their own space. i had the pleasure of listening to one today where i litteraly heard the fc say in the space of a min, how they could not find anyone willing to fight their gang because of its size and in the same sentence asking for more logistics ships to join his gang.
the best part of all this is people not only let this happen and think this is the normal state of the game, but they encourage it at expence of their own time and enjoyment.
you have the power to change this... but you wont...
and we wonder why the old school people are leaving en-masse.
Exactly so.
Those of us that can remember what this game used to be like realise what's been lost in leu of increasing the population in it, and that's why they leave - because they don't see a way for it to be returned to the game.
I wonder if CCP do.
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:48:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dark Motoko on 12/10/2010 21:54:51
Originally by: Maximilian Black
Also concur that it's looking nigh impossible for a small alliance move into 0.0 without becoming a pet of a bigger alliance. How in the world can any new small alliance stand up to the gargantuan fleets that the megablock alliances can field within hours? They can't. This is pretty disheartening to those that would like to try and forge their own little corner of EVE. A small alliance can spend months and months trying to carve out their niche, and on a whim a big alliance can swoop in and take them out in a couple days. To me, the aspect of EVE's play balancing is way, way, way out of whack.
Methinks it's time for CCP to nerf moon mats, increase the cost/time/requirements for building supercaps and titans. Yup, these alliances may be rich, so make them burn through their cash faster by increasing their costs. Of course, the downside there is that also makes it harder for small alliances to build supercaps and titans. Sigh.
Oh, what the hell, never mind... ;)
This is exactly what we needed, but it is a few years too late by this point. As I said earlier, these established alliances have hoarded so much by this stage that removing the source now wouldn't do a lot to the problem. Think about it - for an example, Morsus have held Tribute for at least four or five years that I've witnessed. Considering that at one time R64s were pumping 10B/month each... think about how the math must go for a minute.
Like you say, a new alliance doesn't really stand a chance against it, since a capital fleet of 10-20 ships they've worked hard to create might be a devastating loss if it was destroyed - an alliance like Morsus for example can bat it aside without a thought... or lose the same quantity a dozen times over without giving a damn. The only options remaining for new people, are for those new alliances to rent and take orders.
If CCP were to try fixing the problem by adding a few new regions, all we'll see is the current superpowers sprawling into them. If they try to set a cap on perhaps a single alliance being able to hold at most one region - all the players would do would be to create a couple additional alliances under alts - eg, a situation like The Initiative, Initiative Associates and Initiative Mercenaries, you can see how it would go.
So at this stage, I'm unsure what CCP actually could do.
Those who will be the major players of eve throughout the rest of its history, be that 10 years, 20 or more... have probably already been irreversibly set. As long as nobody disbands them of course.
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Whalles Bloomfield'III
Caldari
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:53:00 -
[18]
Not so much sov mechanics that force big blob alliance but game itself. There is no penalty for having everyone blue and being Gargantuan in Size. The increased cost of systems is negligible especially as you can simple put a rent alliance there.
So a mechanic should be put in place to force alliances to be smaller. As in Max players in alliance 1500 - 2000 (and a log increase of cost per player) and max 2-3 blue alliances.
But like i said before, a lot of people like the current game, so who cares....
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Imigo Montoya
Gallente
Hysterically Unforgiving
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Torothin
I really don't have time to contribute to any major alliance ops mainly because I am not willing to sit infront of my computer for a 3-5 hour CTA. Solo pvp is pretty much dead and you are gaurunteed to run into a 12 man roaming gang(at the least) in any 0.0 incursion.
EVE is a sandbox. That means you can play it the way you want to. I go out solo/small gang roaming when I get the chance, and often encounter other small (3-5 pilots) gangs. It's all a matter of setting yourself up with the right gear that will meet your needs. Finding a ship that can engage suitable targets and avoid others isn't hard.... if that's what you want to do in the sandbox.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Whalles Bloomfield'III
Not so much sov mechanics that force big blob alliance but game itself. There is no penalty for having everyone blue and being Gargantuan in Size. The increased cost of systems is negligible especially as you can simple put a rent alliance there.
The problem is not possible to solve the way you are suggesting. The metagame is strong in this one. You can just put up X number of alliances that act as one.
Even limiting the amount of blue standings won't solve the problem, because people would just find a way around it. It's human nature to blob up. You can't beat it in a (and I am using the term loosely) sandbox-environment.
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Bluebear8
Gallente
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:11:00 -
[21]
I know ur problems.
ur chars are older than dirt.
/me hands OP a washcloth to freshen them up.
Now, get out of JITA and have some fun!
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El Muchacha
Minmatar
Phathcom Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:21:00 -
[22]
Sad to see you go Toro  I will miss hearing stories about the random girls you hook up with on the weekends. I will also miss your fun gangs. Eve just lost another old school solid guy that makes the game worthwhile to log on. Best of luck man!
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Andrejs L
Caldari
INGEN Industries
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:23:00 -
[23]
Bit of a doozy really
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StonerPhReaK
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:26:00 -
[24]
Notice who all posted alliance wise.Then look at how many haven't.Is the only thing to do in this game pvp?Is there never room for growth or expansion?Some of you "old timers" haven't gotten here whining like you cats have been,HTFU or GTFO imo.And if you are leaving.CCP thanks you for all your real life monies and time,I'm sure of it.Good luck in future games TorsoThin
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Imigo Montoya
Gallente
Hysterically Unforgiving
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dark Motoko
*snip* Large alliances have built up huge wealth and are therefore untouchable *snip*
(This is my summary of your post, please feel free to clarify/contend if this is not what you meant)
I disagree. Just look at what has happened to Atlas and -A-, both alliances that have held the space they're in for a long time and have built large reserves of ISK and capitals. What you have said about Morsus Mihi can also be applied to both Atlas and -A-, and yet they have both been removed from their space.
Sure, the scale of the invading force was large, but so was the force in the last invasion of the NC, particularly the battle for H-W. The big difference between those invasions (of the NC, and of Atlas/-A-) is that the coalition of alliances in the north were full of active players (of all character ages) and leadership who worked together and not only undocked to fight, but coordinated well with each other because they have been working together on a regular basis.
There seems to be a sentiment amongst the (bitter) vets that I'd like to address... If you think you deserve to be powerful and successful in EVE purely because you have a lot of skillpoints, I suggest that you are somewhat mistaken.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.10.12 23:16:00 -
[26]
Okay, I'll add one more post.
A problem that I see why no one ever really fights for its space (even longtime spaceholders like -a- to use an example of the present) is because we're basically untouchable.
-a- lost Catch and whatnot. So what? Their assets are basically safe (even while I spent close to 5000 rounds of EMP XL in an artyfit Naglfar in the past two weeks while playing casually).
Thanks to Jumpfreighters, Jumpbridges and all the other little Conveniences (is that a word?) that got added in the past couple of years it is way too easy to get the valuable stuff out.
I remember the days when we had some really crazy Canadians run all the way from empire to a godforsaken system in the most awkward southern parts of the Eve-Universe in a bunch of Providences. That was a nailbiter.
God, I miss those times.
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
Gallente
1st Cavalry Division
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.12 23:48:00 -
[27]
" first off this is a great game, but 9/10 of everything in game sucks though "
this thread is full full of fail.....from the OP to anyone picking your points.
An epic troll.
Also you're getting owned by K162 even though CCP removed the 'exploit' from wormholes, so you have no excuses for your failures now other than,,, well the **** you wrote.
Go and talk to Endless fit a tengu and have some fun against the 12 man gangs in 0,0.
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* Your signature is inappropriate and is therefore locked for CCP impersonation. Please file a petition when you have an appropriate signature. |
Napro
Caldari
Simplistic Syndicate
Cha0s Theory
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Posted - 2010.10.12 23:58:00 -
[28]
Just quit. Simple.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.13 01:20:00 -
[29]
I think it's important to remember that EvE is essentially a set of tools, not a set gameplay experience. CCP doesn't make the blobs - we do. We find strength in numbers and safety in company, as is our way as humans. Conflict is created when we reach that point where disagreement reaches aggravation. (Or simply fundamental differences in objectives.)
To break an alliance that stands in your way requires, at times, accepting that disagreements you have with others must be put aside to further your own goals. People that join power blocks accept this, those that don't must find another way. It just so happens that those that don't join the blocks usually lack the strong leadership needed to create a new power block.
Or, you can simply throw cheesecake at them.
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Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
ps3ud0nym
Minmatar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.13 03:38:00 -
[30]
It is funny to read this thread and see the complete lack of understanding as to what causes these issues, and the solutions to them. EVE is a complex adaptive system, that means it shares much in common with the stock market or weather for instance. I am sure you have all heard of "The Butterfly Effect" where a butterfly beating its wings in Tokyo could cause a hurricane in Florida. The problem with this is because of the density of information and the sensitivity to initial conditions of the system there is no way to actually trace that hurricane back to a that butterfly. What that means in this case is that any changes you make to your initial conditions (ie the mechanics of the game) are going to have effects were it isn't possible to predict what the full effect of the change would be (called The Law of Unintended Consequences). You are taking about changes to the game that AREN'T connected directly to initial conditions on game world rules. This isn't a rules calculation. You are taking about changing the behavior of people in the game (a generated effect) by changing initial conditions where it isn't possible to completely understand the link between the initial condition and the effect. Should these changes take place, they MAY fix the issues you are speaking of, but they WILL create issues just as bad and it is impossible to say what those issue will be.
This isn't to say that you can't try and improve the game, but you have to start looking at the causes for those effects and address those rather than trying to tweek conditions to create comprehensive change. You need to look as far down the ladder as you can when you make that change. So the question is "WHY is this happening" not, "How to we change it."
So lets look at why people blob, why the big guys together and how you can address it. This game works pretty much like reality. You don't see countries going around and beating the **** out of each other for ****s and giggles. Wars expend money and political capital. It only makes sense to band together in order to achieve collective goals. It also means that it is more logical to fight ONLY when you know you can win and to retreat and reengage when you can't. This is because the a failed encounter on the battlefield has real costs. In EVE we face the same situation. Because ships have a real value, it doesn't make sense to expend that capital unless you are sure you are going to win. You are friends with those around you because by doing so you can achieve goals that would be impossible in a state of constant war. What causes the very things you complain about is that there is a cost to death in EVE. If you want a game like you are describing, you are going to have to remove or reduce that cost. Then you would have tonnes of people roaming on their own looking for solo PVP, it wouldn't matter if they got ganked while looking. The problem, in my mind, is that then it wouldn't be EVE, it would be WoW in space, and I don't want to play that.
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