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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.19 23:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 19/10/2010 23:26:04
I have been looking at getting Tech 2 Pulses to go with my Auto's and being a big fan of the Tech 1 Cruiser line up thatÆs the first place I think of when I decide what weapon to train.
The Omen is the definition of a Laser platform and the only Ammar Cruiser that gets a Dmg Bonus that makes them more effective then unbonused Auto Cannons. The direct problem is it's fitting, it is way harder to fit out especially for a newer player.
Even with all skills at 5 it requires 0 CPU Resistance plates and a power grid rig to fit a Tech 2 Pulse and a 800mm Plate/MWD. Even then you need the highest of Meta mods to put it all together without going over CPU.
With most people flying Zealots and moving on to the Harb it is easy to forget that this should be a new players first Armor Laser Ship above the frigate class and should be fit with Tech 1 and low meta gear at Newbe skill.(Electronics and Engineering 4) I did some EFT work on my near skilless hauler alt Caila boosting her EFT skill to what a new Ammar Pilot would have and what a Tech 2 Ammar Pilot would have to make comparisons and came to the following conclusions.
* Boost the grid by 75 to allow a Armor Pulse fit at all levels of skill.
* Boost CPU by 50 to allow for a greater mix of mods and meta levels.
As you know the Vexor, Rupture, Arbitrator, Moa, Stabber and Thorax have the fitting to excell in there combat roles without the use of rigs and expensive high meta mods. I think new Ammar pilots should have the same opportunity especially since no other cruiser gets the all important Dmg Bonus which will become a big part of there line up.
Please give your support and Discuss I will be glad to change the proposal based on your suggestions.
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They took my Rifle! |
Dhaul
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.19 23:48:00 -
[2]
Looks good; no reason it shouldn't be somewhat comparable to other T1 cruisers.
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Kate Kane
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Posted - 2010.10.20 00:10:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kate Kane on 20/10/2010 00:13:02
Not supported.
The Omen has a damage bonus becouse its not meant to have these advanced fittings; boosting it would make it unbalanced and hurt new players by taking away an oppertunity to struggle with the fittings for it, and thus learn more about them and become better players with a better understanding of fitting mechanics.
This is eve. Not everything should be easy, and without challenges the game is no fun. Dont deprive new players of this oppertunity and fun just so you can have a higher dps and cheaper suicide gank ship to commit insurance frued in in empire.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.20 00:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 20/10/2010 00:33:44
 Originally by: Kate Kane
The Omen has a damage bonus becouse its not meant to have these advanced fittings;
Unlike the Thorax, Rupture, Vexor and Stabber. They fit fine with a dmg Bonus at low skill and better at high skill. That is with full a full tank and dmg mods.
Originally by: Kate Kane
boosting it would make it unbalanced and hurt new players by taking away an oppertunity to struggle with the fittings for it,
It can't be fit with Armor properly by high skill players let alone low skill players, and a good shild fit requires a ton of fitting skills. By then you can move on to the far superior Harb.
Originally by: Kate Kane
and thus learn more about them and become better players with a better understanding of fitting mechanics.
What mechanics, no matter what you train this ship is a nightmare to fit out and fly.
Originally by: Kate Kane
This is eve. Not everything should be easy, and without challenges the game is no fun. Dont deprive new players of this oppertunity and fun just so you can have a higher dps and cheaper suicide gank ship to commit insurance frued in in empire.
Lasers and tank on a Suicide ship, do you even know how to gank people? And as for insurence fraud I see you missed Tyrannis entirely.
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They took my Rifle! |
Noun Verber
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Posted - 2010.10.20 06:58:00 -
[5]
You can't even fit 5 Heavy Pulse Lasers on it with all at V (before any other mods). Is this meant to be a damage ship or not?!
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.10.20 06:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
And as for insurence fraud I see you missed Tyrannis entirely.
Suicide ganking is still insurance fraud - you're claiming insurance for the loss of a ship that was blown up by CONCORD because you broke the rules 
The Omen is an awesome cruiser just the way it is - the Omen Navy Issue even more so. I have my R&D alts flying them to help me in missions just because the Omen is that awesome. No ammo reload delays, no delay in switching between ammo types, a couple of drones to keep you company - what more can a cruiser pilot ask for?
You just have to pick carefully between gank or tank.
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[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.20 07:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 20/10/2010 07:12:21
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Suicide ganking is still insurance fraud - you're claiming insurance for the loss of a ship that was blown up by CONCORD because you broke the rules
Again Suicide Laser Boats???
Originally by: Mara Rinn
The Omen is an awesome cruiser just the way it is - the Omen Navy Issue even more so.
Congrats you can afford 100mil to use the only good Tech 1 non Pirate faction laser boat, head to a 1.0 system and laugh about it.
Originally by: Mara Rinn
I have my R&D alts flying them to help me in missions just because the Omen is that awesome.
Oh good you can mission in it, there is a huge difference between a PVP Armor fit and a PVE fit, it is great that it can PVE but as there only DMG Bonused laser boat, lets not leave PVP in the cold.
Originally by: Mara Rinn
what more can a cruiser pilot ask for?
Being able to PVP fit it with medium skill for a start, let alone fitting it with max skill.
Originally by: Mara Rinn
You just have to pick carefully between gank or tank.
Unlike any other Cruiser... Gotcha.
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I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Acru Si
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Posted - 2010.10.20 08:13:00 -
[8]
yes omen powergrid and cpu cripple it. Its however not the end of the world because the faction, t2 and t3 alternatives are much much better...
Fixing the omen would be nice but would not bring much to eve unlike other things more important to fix.
@op While you're on a crusade to boosting t1 cruiser, try fitting 5x 250mm rails on a Moa and see where that leaves you...
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Amicus Morte
Dead Muppets
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Posted - 2010.10.20 08:13:00 -
[9]
Last time I fit an Omen I had no problems.
Might wanna show comparable fits that work on other T1 cruisers and not Omen.
Also you keep talking about new people and zero skills fit and then complain that T2 don't fit.
This needs a lot more work. For now, I'm not convinced.
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this!
Clear Skies - The Movie
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Uriel Winston
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Posted - 2010.10.20 09:40:00 -
[10]
LetÆs compare some omen fits
[Omen, High-grade t2 guns]
Reactor Control Unit II
Co-Processor II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Hobgoblin II x3
517 DPS (586 overheat) (458 while no drones) EHP 6.8k
[Omen, Low-grade t2 guns]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Co-Processor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x3
455 DPS (515 overheat) (396 no drones) EHP 12.9k
As we can see, first fit fields more dps and it can run the modules for more time but it has 50% less EHP. The 2nd fit has double the EHP of the first one while doing slighter lower DPS.
I really canÆt see why omen needs to be fitted with high-grade guns.
ItÆs true that Rupture does more DPS while having somewhat same EHP (9-10k) but all factions must shine somewhereà
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
Black Cartel.
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Posted - 2010.10.20 10:58:00 -
[11]
Those are terrible omen fits, and we shouldn't compare the omen to the rupture as they are different tier cruisers (tier system sucks). Compare it too the caracal, stabber and vexor as they are the other 'damage' tier 2 cruisers.
That being said I support this change, could also do with something similar happening for the caracal so that can fit hams or heavies with a tech 2 fit without loads of fitting mods.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.20 11:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Korg Leaf
Those are terrible omen fits, and we shouldn't compare the omen to the rupture as they are different tier cruisers (tier system sucks). Compare it too the caracal, stabber and vexor as they are the other 'damage' tier 2 cruisers.
That being said I support this change, could also do with something similar happening for the caracal so that can fit hams or heavies with a tech 2 fit without loads of fitting mods.
you contradict yourself, if you don't agree with the way tier system works, then you don't use it,then you do compare it with all cruisers. PErsonally i think it does suck, and it should be compared to 2nd best ship for each race. And it is a bit lacking. I will do more testing before supporting this.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
Black Cartel.
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Posted - 2010.10.20 12:42:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 20/10/2010 12:44:09
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
Originally by: Korg Leaf
Those are terrible omen fits, and we shouldn't compare the omen to the rupture as they are different tier cruisers (tier system sucks). Compare it too the caracal, stabber and vexor as they are the other 'damage' tier 2 cruisers.
That being said I support this change, could also do with something similar happening for the caracal so that can fit hams or heavies with a tech 2 fit without loads of fitting mods.
you contradict yourself, if you don't agree with the way tier system works, then you don't use it,then you do compare it with all cruisers. PErsonally i think it does suck, and it should be compared to 2nd best ship for each race. And it is a bit lacking. I will do more testing before supporting this.
I think you will find the point i was making was that comparing the tier 2 cruiser with a tier 3 cruiser is never going to balance, then the part in the brackets was just making the point that i think the tier system sucks. That isn't a contradiction that's two separate points.
There is no point in comparing the rupture and the omen whilst the tier system is still in place. Once ccp wakes up and gets rid of that then the omen should be balanced against the rupture, moa and thorax as they are all the races gun cruisers, but as its still there it should be balanced against the stabber, vexor and caracal as the combat tier 2 cruisers (as much as that sucks).
edit. Cleared up the rambling effect to this post (mostly)
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.20 14:24:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 20/10/2010 14:29:16
Originally by: Uriel Winston
LetÆs compare some omen fits
[Omen, High-grade t2 guns]
517 DPS (586 overheat) (458 while no drones) EHP 6.8k
This is a max skill fit with 3 fitting mods to throw it all together
Originally by: Uriel Winston
ItÆs true that Rupture does more DPS while having somewhat same EHP (9-10k) but all factions must shine somewhereà
The standard max skill Rupture fit pushes 24000EHP, The Vexor 22000EHP and the Speed Tanking LSE Stabber 18000EHP, and don't need fitting mods at any skill level unlike your fits that need both rig and low slots for fitting mods. Why don't you reset those skills to Engineering 4, Electronics 4 and Weapons upgrades 4 and see how a tech 1 Newbe feels about those fits, compared to the well used Vexor Stabber and Caracal fit.
Originally by: Korg Leaf
we shouldn't compare the omen to the rupture as they are different tier cruisers
I agree fully from a combat stand point, as long as the Teir System is still around
Rupture >>>>>> Omen
Even after a fitting friendly Omen the Rupture will still be king of the hill till Blaster, Rail and Maller changes. The point is it can be fit easily and as a similar turret boat and it can be used by lower skill players.
But the Rupture on any other level is entirely unfare.
To your final point I agree in spades to the Caracal but want the Omen done first. The Blaster Moa picks up the slack for now.
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I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
Black Cartel.
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Posted - 2010.10.20 15:01:00 -
[15]
True blaster moa is at least a decent gun cruiser, I want the omen to be able to at least fit the plate and guns with a mwd without need a powergrid rig. Would mean that I can bring them out on cruiser roams.
If eft ehp is anything to go by the 800+FMP fitted omen gets just shy of 400dps and 22k ehp so its not too bad on that front but thats with a powergrid rig and having to use nano platings rather than eanms.
I would prefer the tier system removed and the cruisers balanced on roles. Rupture-Thorax-Moa-Omen as gun cruisers Maller-Stabber-Caracal-Vexor as support cruiser (anti-tackle, heavy tackle sort of roles)
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.20 15:19:00 -
[16]
tier system is non-****tional. You are claiming that a higher tier cruiser is always going to be better, and yet vexor is (aguably)the best cruiser around, and it is tier 3. Even if you dispute the fact that it is the best cruiser around (which you are rightfull to do) it is at least no worse then thorax, which is a tier two cruiser.
And it's not like maller is good either. So yes, amarr cruisers are lacking a bit.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
Black Cartel.
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Posted - 2010.10.20 18:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 20/10/2010 18:04:11
you have the gallente cruisers the wrong way around the vexor is tier 2 as it requires lvl 2 cruiser where as the thorax is tier 3, and i never said the vexor was a bad cruiser, i said the tier system is ****ed and thats why comparing the omen to the rupture is going to be silly as it is like comparing the stabber to the rupture. Although i hate it the tier 2 were meant to be worse in fitting that the tier 3, the problem here is that the omen is worse fitting than all the other tier 2 cruisers as well.
Also unless you noticed I have supported this, and never said the amarr cruisers were good, the only one that is good is the arby
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Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.20 19:31:00 -
[18]
Supported, Omen needs a little love.
I like me
Recruiter |
Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.10.20 20:07:00 -
[19]
omen needs love and the tier system needs to get removed ~o~
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.10.21 08:06:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 21/10/2010 08:07:43
Omen needs the grid to fit 800mm plate, MWD and focused medium pulse IIs.
According to my EFT, with maxed out skills that's a 5% PG boost and to accomodate for lower skilled players somewhere more around 10-15% would probably be in order.
(And then you've got CPU issues to deal with...)
_________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 23:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Omen needs the grid to fit 800mm plate, MWD and focused medium pulse IIs.
IMO you should have the choice of 1600s+FMP or 800+HPL. 
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
Blog
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klyeme
Soft War
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.10.27 01:12:00 -
[22]
It looks cool too
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Alghara
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Posted - 2010.10.27 06:40:00 -
[23]
Eh guy you are crazy to use again laser ...
On the amarr ship it's better to use now Artillery ...
Omen artillery no problem capa and fitting and nice dps
Harbinger Artillery the same
And the best of the best is Apocalypse Artillery no problem with the tanking (you have enough capa) you make hudge Alpha.
Now they are only one weapons to use Artillery for all. You have only bonus with this weapons ...
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.27 09:55:00 -
[24]
Maller needs love too.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2010.10.27 10:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Templar Dane
Maller needs love too.
Would like a drone bay and a laser damage bonus on the maller that would be nice
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Aerilis
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:11:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Aerilis on 27/10/2010 13:14:58
Omen base stats are fine, but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE IT MORE FITTING ROOM.
50 more CPU and PWG would barely bring it in line with other T1 cruisers.
Also, fix the Harb's 7th turret.
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Rickhart
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:16:00 -
[27]
deffinetly supported
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:47:00 -
[28]
He's right, the Omen is ****ty right now. When comparing it to stabber, caracal, vexor, it just doesn't bring anything new to the table. Right now anything the omen can do the caracal does better, EXCEPT being a shield nano ***, but neither of them are meant for that anyway.
Fix that OMEN
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Igloo
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.27 21:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Igloo on 27/10/2010 21:11:55
Just needs more fitting room.
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Alberta
Wayne Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2010.10.27 21:21:00 -
[30]
Omen has needed a boost for so long it's unreal. Supported.
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