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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:02:00 -
[1]
CCP Zulu newest blog provides an update on the EVE Online: Incursion expansion.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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The Huffarunier
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:05:00 -
[2]
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zulu newest blog provides an update on the EVE Online: Incursion expansion.
first, and booooooo
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Drone 16
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:09:00 -
[3]
second????? ......and are you saying the Nation is temporarily pushing back its plans to invade based on technical issues? Tell them to sharpen their spikes and lets get it on....lets go, we are tired of waiting for them...
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Captian Conrad
Minmatar Empyrean Warriors
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Captian Conrad on 11/11/2010 16:12:02 3rd! and hmm fair enouth, best have tatoos+sunglasses done for next years char creator but a lot of cool UI features :D and glad to see its the normal "were launch it when ready insted were launch when half done" (fogeting CCP histroy of cource )
Anyway cant wait for AA, new market, ships ect ect :D
" Originally by: Patchnotes ò80 new story line courier missions
...i dont even... _________________________________ Looking for cool pilots, check our advert |
Anna Ooze
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:11:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Anna Ooze on 11/11/2010 16:11:55 How about different icons for BPO vs BPC ?
Now that would be a nice little addition too!
Edit: Oh, and being able to stack identical ones would help too :)
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Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:11:00 -
[6]
I approve of this - it's too bad we have to wait, but if that makes it more awesome who am I to complain.
But CCP should realise that we expect a completely bug free release in Januari... not another 3 months of bugfixes - oohh the pressure is mounting! Will they do it! Read it in one of the next dev blogs!
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:12:00 -
[7]
To CCP
Thanks for updating us. IMHO I don't mind waiting as long as its good. The option patches are quite ridiculous, but looking forward to it!
Best, Apollo
=============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
RutilusUnus
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:12:00 -
[8]
Take all the time you need. I'd rather it be amazing than rushed.
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Drone 16
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Anna Ooze How about different icons for BPO vs BPC ?
Now that would be a nice little addition too!
Anna, I like the way you think!
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Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mynxee on 11/11/2010 16:16:00 I applaud CCP for choosing to focus on Excellence rather than publish stuff that isn't ready for prime time. The list of potential changes in the November release is nice. And given what I saw on SiSi related to the new character creator, a delay that (one hopes) promises a more user-friendly, content-rich experience there would be most welcome. If that also includes CCP taking into consideration more feedback from players to refine the Sansha Incursions, even better.
Based on discussions we had with CCP on the matter, I would have liked to see this announcement come out sooner but better late than never.
Life In Low Sec |
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LegendaryFrog
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: RutilusUnus Take all the time you need. I'd rather it be amazing than rushed.
I support this. A polished product is leaps and bounds better than an on-time product, especially with an mmo like this.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:14:00 -
[12]
Smaller, polished patches are better than big blowout patches. That said, I think a November release date was ambitious in the first place and don't quite understand why it was set.
___
Latest video: Future Proof (720p) 2D Animator |
EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:14:00 -
[13]
Oh hai, I am CCP ________ we are releasing a "Bug Fix" as our "major release patch" for the winter expansion, then in January we will release the actual patch. Thanks but no thanks just shows your ineptitude of actually doing work.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:14:00 -
[14]
Sad to hear you can't release it allthis month, but I'll take a little dose of excellence over a pile of buggy P.O.S. anyday.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:15:00 -
[15]
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
Thank you for taking a concrete step toward listening to the CSM and by extention the players. A staggerred roll out will allow a smoother deployment + correction of issues/problems post patch, and hopefully that extra time on the key feature will translate into the Excellence we all hope for.
Also much thanks for some of the low hanging fruit changes (rockets, T2 ammo, AB/MWD differentiation, POS gunner notices). I hope this approach to content and the process of its deployment are the successful first steps along a promising path. ---
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Douchie McNitpick
Money Liberation Services Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:17:00 -
[16]
Why is so cold around here all of a sudden?
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Cannibal Girl
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:17:00 -
[17]
Nice.
Especially in the world of computers where the word of the day seems to be "get it out now, and fix it later."
I for one have no problems waiting an extra month or two for it to be done right. Kudos to CCP for doing that!
Still, can't wait to see rockets get some love, though!
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Dacil Arandur
Cognitive Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: The Huffarunier
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zulu newest blog provides an update on the EVE Online: Incursion expansion.
first, and booooooo
I am very disappointed that the first response to this devblog was negative. It should have been a round of applause.
This was a tough choice, but it was definitely the right one. I am thrilled by what I have read here and am VERY happy that you are taking whatever extra time you need to do things right.
Thank you very much for this!
-- Dacil
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
Thank you for taking a concrete step toward listening to the CSM and by extention the players. A staggerred roll out will allow a smoother deployment + correction of issues/problems post patch, and hopefully that extra time on the key feature will translate into the Excellence we all hope for.
Also much thanks for some of the low hanging fruit changes (rockets, T2 ammo, AB/MWD differentiation, POS gunner notices). I hope this approach to content and the process of its deployment are the successful first steps along a promising path.
Quoting for great justice. Very, VERY happy to see this approach taking hold. ---- CEO - BDCI "AAA is a collection of fail leftovers from cascaded alliances such as RISE, IAC, MC and ASCN." - Anton Marx |
Nemo deBlanc
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:18:00 -
[20]
Looks good to me. While I'd love to have the changes as soon as possible (read: Now), changes aren't worth anything if they aren't done right. So it's good to see CCP taking the needed time to make them happen properly.
Starting to think CCP pulled a corp theft on Blizzard. They sure got an awful lot of polish from somewhere.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:20:00 -
[21]
I'm also glad to see CCP aim for polish over features.
Now where is that fast forward button to January?
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Drone 16
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Sad to hear you can't release it allthis month, but I'll take a little dose of excellence over a pile of buggy P.O.S. anyday.
THIS!!!!
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Jamaican Herbsman
I Love You Mary Jane
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jamaican Herbsman on 11/11/2010 16:23:20 Better approach than rushing patches and repairing tons of bugs afterwards. Leave boot.ini alone and you're golden.
edit: in before Chribba
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Rustpunk
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:22:00 -
[24]
Totally on board. Haters gonna hate, but they need to HTFU and get on board the Excellence freighter train.
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Aina O'Sinnor
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Anna Ooze Edited by: Anna Ooze on 11/11/2010 16:11:55 How about different icons for BPO vs BPC ?
Now that would be a nice little addition too!
Edit: Oh, and being able to stack identical ones would help too :)
I do second that!
I am really looking forward to the new characters. Thanks for the update CCP, Eve is really starting to roll.
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:23:00 -
[26]
2 thumbs up to taking the time to make it a good expansion.
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Myxx
Gallente spurius regibus
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:23:00 -
[27]
Awesome. Thank you, CCP. I'll gladly wait on better, more polished stuff if it means its all done properly instead of being rushed. --
My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused. |
Azmodeus Valar
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:24:00 -
[28]
I am very happy that CCP is taking the time to really polish the release, instead of releasing it and doing multiple bugfixes and promises of fixing it later.
This is a good step forward to CCP, and I hope their committment to polishing features will continue for future patches. I would much rather have patches delayed a few months, or even have them every 8-9 months instead of every 6 months if it meant that each patch was a polished product.
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redstar8368
Caldari Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:26:00 -
[29]
in this industry there is a saying
fast cheap well
pick any two
see you in space |
Arthur Pewty
Zener Tech. Skynet 7
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:27:00 -
[30]
Happy to wait for a good product, but I would also like to know the fate of the Noctis. Is this non-combat ship hoped to be in the Precursor, 2nd step (Prep work) or 3rd (Character & Sansha)?
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Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:27:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 11/11/2010 16:28:30 thanks CCP :D
I agree with what mynxee said: it's great to see CCP recognise that quality matters more than a release deadline, and that they're willing to apply polish when they see it is needed. I am very optimistic that this is a mentality change (for the better) within CCP and not a one-off event.
(also: in before chribba \o/)
* * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
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Sloothy
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:27:00 -
[32]
I am very happy that CCP has decided to polish things. HOwever, I was really looking forward to the Noctis coming out soon. Is there really need to 'polish' the new ship? If not I think releasing it with the November patch would keep people happy and hold us over until we get the full incursion release.
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Caiden Baxter
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
Thank you for taking a concrete step toward listening to the CSM and by extention the players. A staggerred roll out will allow a smoother deployment + correction of issues/problems post patch, and hopefully that extra time on the key feature will translate into the Excellence we all hope for.
Also much thanks for some of the low hanging fruit changes (rockets, T2 ammo, AB/MWD differentiation, POS gunner notices). I hope this approach to content and the process of its deployment are the successful first steps along a promising path.
QFT
/me tips his hat for CCP
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Draco Argen
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:27:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Draco Argen on 11/11/2010 16:33:48 *Claps*
Good, get it right delay it for a reasonable time. I agree with many of the above posts. A massive leap in the right direction in CCPs attitude and actions. Please do keep us well updated on progress (Even if it's "hung over, not done much today")
(I'll bet CCP never expected community to be so happy to hear that an update is not being released, lol)
Douchie McNitpic: The devil is wearing a fluffy hat and mittens.
Now can we PLEASE get the prototype back on SISI. Understand the 64 bit change was important but we are live now. Let us at the broken newbits.
One big boo thought, would have loved the Key shortcuts to be in November, but I COMPLETELY understand its one of the most risky and bug potential changes in the release. So I'll swallow my excitement.
p.s. I could 26 positive responses out of 34 posts before me. That's an agree of 76%, It's the most coherant I've seen these forums in AGES
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Katabrok First
Caldari Apukaray Security
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:28:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Katabrok First on 11/11/2010 16:31:07 Congratulations CCP. You are taking the correct decision by only delivering what is done.
Ps.: Would it be possible to include the new ship (noctis) in the 30th november patch? I know I'm asking too much after news so great, but you only know the answer if you ask the question.
Kata
Kata's Blog |
Tester128
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:30:00 -
[36]
will the remap for plex make it to the first part?
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Hrothgar Doran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:31:00 -
[37]
Definately a good direction CCP, incrementaly releasing smalelr features and updates, and putting more polish on the larger ones. Appeals to the pretty much the whole eve playerbase I think, and puts priority on proffesionalism and excelence, the way it should be.
Perhaps this is premature, but will Incursion in jan be the first virtualy bug free release?
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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company Red Rock Consortium
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:32:00 -
[38]
I think this is an excellent decision. I'd rather see CCP take an agile approach to deliveries like they've done with software development. More frequent smaller releases as functionality is polished and ready for release would improve EVE faster. Waiting for major changes delay the just as important smaller changes.
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:33:00 -
[39]
Thank you CCP.
Given the choice between the arbitrary 2 expansion per year policy or the policy of excellence, I'm happy that you chose the latter. There's a reason most of the best game development companies have a policy of "it's done when it's done", CCP could certainly use a bit more of that at times as shown recently.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:34:00 -
[40]
Excellence is excellent! --
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Kajan Tormen
Minmatar Blood Money Inc. The Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:35:00 -
[41]
*claps* good move! while obviously no one likes to wait and all of us would prefer new, epic features NOW - going live with the "much awaited fixes" in November and waiting with the "big features" until they actually deserve that name is definitely the best course of action.
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No Mauk'Ob
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:35:00 -
[42]
I applaud CCP for taking the time to get things right before pushing out this expansion.
I will wait for Quality every single time ----------------------- Vice Admiral No Mauk'Ob Murientor Tribe Navy 1st MCW MURIE is Recruiting! |
Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:36:00 -
[43]
Thumbs up CCP! Congratulations for the RIGHT DECISION!
We all hope that you will be able to deliver a really polished product, because as we all know, "the devil is in the detail"
Two important questions: 1. Any chance of including Noctis salvaging ship in November 2010 patch? 2. Any chance of having different icons for BPO / BPC, as part of the "Icons refactoring"?
Both "features" do not need too much of an effort / polish ;-)
P.S. There will be whiners & haters, but anyway, nobody could help them to overcome their mental misery IGNORE THEM!
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
Kary Tamona
Crom Demons
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:37:00 -
[44]
Thanks CCP for listening to us and our representatives. Thanks to the CSM are in order too. Eve is a monster of a game and updates and new content will always take time, so better delayed and more polished than sooner and buggier.
By the way, the November changes/updates/corrections look good on their own. Would be nice to know how many of those were proposed by the CSM.
Looking forward to both, the November patch and the new content of January.
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Victor Valka
Caldari The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:37:00 -
[45]
In Sansha EVE, the Nation schedules you!
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mynxee I applaud CCP for choosing to focus on Excellence rather than publish stuff that isn't ready for prime time. CSM has advocated repeatedly that players will accept delays cheerfully if it means a better product.
Totally agreeing!
That is THE RIGHT MOVE. Releasing half-done, half-broken stuff is bad. Quality must be ALWAYS the first and foremost concern.
So, very good.
I am curious though what all the devs did during summer, didn't seem to be that much after all |
wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:38:00 -
[47]
I don't have any beef with the overall strategic decision; I think it's wise.
However, I think the quantity of tweaks/fixes/minor improvements is really pathetic, particularly in light of how trivial many of them are. The CSM prioritized 168 proposals into 3 different categories, and CCP chose something like 7 of the smallest/easiest items to incorporate after getting a lot of bad press. Changing icons? Altering some database values for rocket stats? Give me a break.
I'll believe that the extra time allows them to release an expansion that isn't full of bugs when I see it, cuz right now it just sounds like they're missing deadlines left and right and are asking for an extension to turn in the same crap they've been doing since Apocrypha.
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Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: dev blog
On top of that, we want to make sure our quality assurance department gets plenty of time with the more polished, final versions.
A remaining challenge is that until the extended QA effort results in meaningful improvements to what is clearly a flawed process...it's just hot air.
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:42:00 -
[49]
Originally by: LegendaryFrog
Originally by: RutilusUnus Take all the time you need. I'd rather it be amazing than rushed.
I support this. A polished product is leaps and bounds better than an on-time product, especially with an mmo like this.
Agreed. You're showing us that you learned from Tyranis.
Complete, functioning, polished features delivered late are better than junk delivered on time.
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Jamus Gorrelius
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:42:00 -
[50]
We will also have some stuff you have been working on to combat lag in there aswell or is that in december or january?
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Riedle
Minmatar MARSOC Galactic
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:44:00 -
[51]
I'd rather it be delayed and awesome than ontime and sucky.
good job CCP. keep it up.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:44:00 -
[52]
I applaud CCP for this decision. I personally don't need two (content) expansions a year. One is more than good for me.
The couple one major content release + one major patch (fixing all/most known bugs, add little improvements and such) release would be something I'll be really happy with, if that will become the new plan. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Zirator
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:48:00 -
[53]
/applause
I'm impressed that CCP takes this step but I'm more then happy to wait as long as "excellence" is the result.
Congratulations are in place here and I also would like to thank the CSM because I wonder if this discussion was taken without the input from the CSM.
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Hrothgar Doran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween The couple one major content release + one major patch (fixing all/most known bugs, add little improvements and such) release would be something I'll be really happy with, if that will become the new plan.
This.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:52:00 -
[55]
Too bad we have to wait longer, but much rather that and get quality than to get it now full of bugs.
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The DirtDiver
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: RutilusUnus Take all the time you need. I'd rather it be amazing than rushed.
This.
Way to to go, CCP.
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Indeterminacy A remaining challenge is that until the extended QA effort results in meaningful improvements to what is clearly a flawed process...it's just hot air.
I hear what you're saying there, but at least senior management is starting to show us that they value quality product over on-time delivery.
They still have internal process improvements to make (what company doesn't?), but to this customer CCP has taken a big step in the right direction.
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Xaen
Caldari Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:58:00 -
[58]
Who are you and what have you done with CCP?
Please allow me a celebratory injection of a little color:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:58:00 -
[59]
*DOES A HUGE DANCE*
Who's leg at ccp do i get to hump now, for the longest time i had been saying that expansions should be released in small sets and not 1 big expansion to avoid major problems. now it's being done! Woot Woot! Thank you CCP, this might be the smoothest release yet!
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Axe Coldon
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:59:00 -
[60]
Delay is fine.
When in those 3 expansions will the new Salvaging ship be released?
When in those 3 expansions will the Incursions start?
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Ifly Uwalk
Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:00:00 -
[61]
+1 Internetz to CCP!
And good job to the CSM as well.
Now about January - that's still like zomg 1 1/2 months away. . . . FIX JANUARY!
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Stupid McStupidson
Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:01:00 -
[62]
Hopefully this style is maintained. I think the idea of slavishly holding to the 2 expansions per year has hurt the game overall. Of course, the tinfoil hat club and the haters (who inexplicably stick around)would scream "SEE, CCP LIES".
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:03:00 -
[63]
This is the best sign I have seen from CCP in months. I am very happy you guys have made this decision, keep up the good work. ---------------------------------------------
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Threshner
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:03:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Arthur Pewty Happy to wait for a good product, but I would also like to know the fate of the Noctis.
Noctis really needs to come out in November. Allowing remapps from plexs are going to skyrocket their prices. This will really help income for the increase of GTC prices.
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kano donn
Right Ascension
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:04:00 -
[65]
well... CCP. Please dont tell people a release date and then move that date.
still. this patch looks to be good.
i hope this does not modify the summer release date on WiS
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Hrothgar Doran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:12:00 -
[66]
Originally by: kano donn i hope this does not modify the summer release date on WiS
I hope it does, Incrana has to be the most polished release of any expansion. If CCP need to take a whole year to do that, it'd be better than having them release it on time with a millions of bugs.
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John Zorg
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:13:00 -
[67]
Fix the Hel bonus and fix the shield bonus issue. How many years are we still going to wait for these corrections?!?!?!?
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:14:00 -
[68]
Someone will complain (can I have your stuff?) but I am happy with this decision.
Releasing smaller and more frequent patches is probably the best thing to do. Maybe it's not a good marketing move, but I don't care about marketing. After all, marketing is a lie.
Well done, commit to excellence and keep on listening to the CSM and the players.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:16:00 -
[69]
I'm actually glad to hear this. I was getting worried with people talking Nov 16th release date on the other forum threads and us not even having a full version on Sisi yet. Knowing that you have a couple months to finish it makes me a lot more confident that it'll be good when it does come out.
That said, you have to make sure it's worth it. If it's good, all will be forgiven. But if you screw us around again like Tyrannis did...well, we won't be very kind.
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:19:00 -
[70]
You have done the right thing. Now it's time to update the test server and let us see what you have in mind regarding the t2 ammo balance for example.
(actually im looking forward to have new things and changes in the game every ~3 weeks from now till incursion)
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Rusty Waynne
Caldari Waynne Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:20:00 -
[71]
This is great news!
Not only do we get goodies each month till January but the features they're adding are getting extra development time.
Despite my not having enthusiasm for Incursions, CCP has my full support on this decision to push back release.
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Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:25:00 -
[72]
Delivering Excellence - definitely good move.
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Vildrin
Entwi De Maila
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:26:00 -
[73]
Good Stuff thanks for letting us know.
Would really like to see the Noctis and the Plex for Remapping in the first release. Looking forward to them both very much.
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Missy Sasha
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:27:00 -
[74]
If you're going to add faction ships to the market, why not add faction modules too? Faction ammo is already there anyway.
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:28:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 11/11/2010 17:32:11 Unacceptable, CCP.
This amounts to a CANCELLATION of this expansion, with it's replacement with stuff that is mostly UI tweaks which will need God knows how many interim patches to fix.
Yes, we do want things released only when they are actually done right.
However, a 2+ months delay (really a cancellation of the Winter 2010 expansion) tells us that you aren't spending the proper resources on this game to meet both your commitment to giving us two major updates a year AND to do them right. The two are not mutually exclusive. Delays of days or even weeks to fix showstoppers found late in the process is fine, we're all for that. But it shouldn't be MONTHS, with major features vanishing on the cutting room floor.
This is no more acceptable an answer than rushing out junk like you did with Dominion and Tyrranus.
Seriously, CCP, this isn't a step forward. This just exposes how f'ed up your development and quality control models are and definite proof you haven't properly addressed either yet.
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Sinuwey
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:33:00 -
[76]
As a product owner myself (in the day job) I applaud both CCP and the CSM making these type of hard choices, and communicating to the community.
Not wanting to intrude on someone elses' SCRUM & support programme, I do have to wonder if two mini-releases between now and Xmas, then the two biggie funtional areas (character changes and Incursion) early next year could be sustained from a stability perspective.
I'd rather live with a short delay for a revised single mini-release with as much of the smaller stuff in scope on the backlog properly QA'd before Santa time. ( I'm kind of guessing QA focus has been on getting chunks of the big ticket items up into Singularity, but what do I know?)
Anyway keep up the good work, and keep the communication going
Dave D
--- P.S. ok, now you've got me twitchy for access to CCP sprint demos again - "Get behind me Satan" <grin>
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Elgaris Dukor
Caldari Femti Runa Eru ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:33:00 -
[77]
Hello CCP,
thats the best choice you could do. Take your time. Release the content when its finished. If it takes a few months, it is so. I totally support that desicion.
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Tergiminius
Binary Star
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:35:00 -
[78]
So are we to get the new PI changes in the December patch or January cos the blog doesn't mention this in either the Nov 30th or Jan section ? |
Komen
Gallente Flying Target LLC
|
Posted - 2010.11.11 17:36:00 -
[79]
Chiming in with more cheers for CCP. The right move, despite some crybabies. I'd rather have the release late and working, than on time and broken. Dealt with too many of the latter, and too few of the former.
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Jack bubu
Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:39:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 11/11/2010 17:32:11 Unacceptable, CCP.
This amounts to a CANCELLATION of this expansion, with it's replacement with stuff that is mostly UI tweaks which will need God knows how many interim patches to fix.
Yes, we do want things released only when they are actually done right.
However, a 2+ months delay (really a cancellation of the Winter 2010 expansion) tells us that you aren't spending the proper resources on this game to meet both your commitment to giving us two major updates a year AND to do them right. The two are not mutually exclusive. Delays of days or even weeks to fix showstoppers found late in the process is fine, we're all for that. But it shouldn't be MONTHS, with major features vanishing on the cutting room floor.
This is no more acceptable an answer than rushing out junk like you did with Dominion and Tyrranus.
Seriously, CCP, this isn't a step forward. This just exposes how f'ed up your development and quality control models are and definite proof you haven't properly addressed either yet.
1/10
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Bloodpetal
The Black Company TBC
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:41:00 -
[81]
Does this mean you're doing 3 Expansions next year? ;p
Or are you making it only 2 expansions a year again? -.- ____________________________________________________
Bastet :: First Sergeant |
Monkey M3n
The Wretched. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:41:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Monkey M3n on 11/11/2010 17:41:43 Sense we're going to be able to make new characters are we able to be a different sex is we so choose?
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:44:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Komen Chiming in with more cheers for CCP. The right move, despite some crybabies. I'd rather have the release late and working, than on time and broken. Dealt with too many of the latter, and too few of the former.
CCP has 300,000 subscribers. For $4.4 million a MONTH in revenue, CCP should be able to release two major updates a year that are both ON TIME and free of major flaws. That is over $26 million in revenue to develop each 6-month update.
If they can't (and today's announcement was a tantamount admission) they need new management.
I'd feel a lot better about this if they announced that the delay was to rewrite the entire UI because they realized it needs it due to the debacle of the 1.1 series of "patches to fix patches". Instead, this is a delay of an expansion that, in all honesty, doesn't have a whole lot in it. It has one new ship and one new system which is really nothing more than recycled sleeper/wormhole encounters roving "normal" space. Everything else (PI fixes) is nothing more than repairs to junk released in a previous expansion.
More information needed, CCP. We need to know, specifically, WHAT is causing the delay, and more importantly, WHEN you knew you'd have to delay it.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:44:00 -
[84]
Need MOAR resources for EVE development
Having said that, I rather see it postponed than releasing it half arsed.
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Nightvault
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:45:00 -
[85]
While I'm glad to see this decision, could you possibly shed some light on the scheduling for the PI improvements? Which phase will contain those? Is that possibly the sekrit stuff in phase 2?
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Illectroculus Defined
Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:47:00 -
[86]
I'm happy to hear that the commitment to Excellence is more important than the commitment to release dates. I daresay there are many of the longtime faithful who are going to be very happy with the contents of the mini expansion. Vote Illectro for CSM5! Supporting the New Generation of Eve Players |
Ifly Uwalk
Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:49:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Unacceptable, CCP.
You are an idiot.
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:53:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ifly Uwalk
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Unacceptable, CCP.
You are an idiot.
Releasing bugged junk isn't acceptable.
Releasing stuff months late (if at all) because they are so far out of touch with reality in their development plan that they didn't plan or staff properly to get CLOSE to the planned release date: No more acceptable than releasing bugged junk to make a release date.
With Incursion now running into Incarna/DUST in terms of time frame, something will have to give. Hint: It won't be Incarna/DUST, which are inexorably linked and tied to another product CCP is going to make additional money on.
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TeaDaze
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:56:00 -
[89]
Full marks to CCP for putting Excellence into practice as well as committing to Deliver some of the fixes already completed. I am very happy that the reaction to this has been so positive in the main
I would like to personally thank CCP Zulu for taking the Excellence discussion on board and hope CCP and CSM can continue to work towards this goal in the December summit and beyond.
TeaDaze.net Blog | CSM Database |
Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:58:00 -
[90]
+1 good decision on part of CCP
A decision that will result in less revenue for CCP for this quarter, in CCP employees having to spend christmas with a big TODO list on their mind, in some tough phone calls by Atari and unhappy faces in the marketing department, ... but a decision that hopefully will ultimately work out for the best of the game.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:01:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 11/11/2010 18:02:50
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I'd feel a lot better about this if they announced that the delay was to rewrite the entire UI because they realized it needs it due to the debacle of the 1.1 series of "patches to fix patches".
In case you didn't notice - that debacle was the direct fallout from rewriting the entire UI.
Now that the work is done and the newly introduced bugs are successively getting squashed you want CCP to rewrite the UI again just for the lulz?
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Vuk Lau Delivering Excellence - definitely good move.
Technically, they aren't delivering anything. Any truth to be found in your statement will be determined when they actually deliver something "excellent."
How will such "execellence" be measured? We're on Tyrannis..what...1.6 now? If Incursion (in whatever form it takes) only gets to 1.5 before the next expansion, does that equal "excellence?"
I just think a lot of people are giving CCP a lot of credit before anything material is shown.
They had two options:
1) We are going to delay release of Incursion. 2) We are going to delay release of Incursion, in order to make it more polished.
I think I can see why they chose the latter. At least the PR machine is working at CCP.
KB
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Norahb
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:07:00 -
[93]
CCP you guys finally get it. Wait and release stuff when it works. This sounds like a really cool expansion and I am encouraged to hear that you are waiting to do it right rather than meet some time line and then release buggy crap that never gets fixed. One big thumbs up from me.
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Draco Argen
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:08:00 -
[94]
I really wish Eve was Open Source. Then we could sit Trolls down with a keyboard and let try to do better. 1 Troll, 2 boos, 4 or so Meh's and rest positive.
I think I might add The Noctis request. Generally CCP don't mess up new ships with the exception of balancing (Ok and T3 interactions and UI). So we'd be forgiven for thinking it could be squeezed into November Patch.
Also re-iterating a previous Question. Is PI changes coming too? They seemed relatively solid last Sisi.
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Hrothgar Doran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:10:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Komen Chiming in with more cheers for CCP. The right move, despite some crybabies. I'd rather have the release late and working, than on time and broken. Dealt with too many of the latter, and too few of the former.
CCP has 300,000 subscribers. For $4.4 million a MONTH in revenue, CCP should be able to release two major updates a year that are both ON TIME and free of major flaws. That is over $26 million in revenue to develop each 6-month update.
If they can't (and today's announcement was a tantamount admission) they need new management.
I'd feel a lot better about this if they announced that the delay was to rewrite the entire UI because they realized it needs it due to the debacle of the 1.1 series of "patches to fix patches". Instead, this is a delay of an expansion that, in all honesty, doesn't have a whole lot in it. It has one new ship and one new system which is really nothing more than recycled sleeper/wormhole encounters roving "normal" space. Everything else (PI fixes) is nothing more than repairs to junk released in a previous expansion.
More information needed, CCP. We need to know, specifically, WHAT is causing the delay, and more importantly, WHEN you knew you'd have to delay it.
And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
I agree with you that CCP needs to tell us what specifically is causing the delay, but look at it this way. If CCP is taking the time to correct it's mistakes in past releases, and provide some long needed polish on certain elements of the game (tech two ammo, etc) then when it comes to to release incarna, they won't have to delay it in turn due to fixing bugs from the past three releases.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
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Warezmy Carr
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:12:00 -
[96]
This was a good decision. Unfortunately, the delay also heightens expectations. I hope they don't let us down ... you know, like those big 'blockbuster' movies where the trailers showed all the good parts and when you went to see it the rest of the movie ended up being crap.
I foresee Incarna being delayed to Winter 2011. ----------
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:13:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Ifly Uwalk
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Unacceptable, CCP.
You are an idiot.
Releasing bugged junk isn't acceptable.
Releasing stuff months late (if at all) because they are so far out of touch with reality in their development plan that they didn't plan or staff properly to get CLOSE to the planned release date: No more acceptable than releasing bugged junk to make a release date.
With Incursion now running into Incarna/DUST in terms of time frame, something will have to give. Hint: It won't be Incarna/DUST, which are inexorably linked and tied to another product CCP is going to make additional money on.
You sir are an idiot You do not realize how a game company works or how software development works in general, and how people asked for the expansion to be in installments to keep whining and bugs to a minimum level. Because see, no matter how much testing you do, there is always bugs people seem to find that were never found before.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:15:00 -
[98]
What happened to T3s swapping subsystems in POS? |
Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:18:00 -
[99]
Noctis? -----
Originally by: Gierling Tech III is going to be "Fully modular" until someone crams the "EW Bonus" modules together with the "8 Midslots" modules...
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:22:00 -
[100]
WOOO! Finally, some excellence!
Originally by: Warezmy Carr I foresee Incarna being delayed to Winter 2011.
Heh, we've been waiting for years, might as well wait a bit more. :P - Paknac Queltel
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five True Associates
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:25:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Paknac Queltel WOOO! Finally, some excellence!
Originally by: Warezmy Carr I foresee Incarna being delayed to Winter 2011.
Heh, we've been waiting for years, might as well wait a bit more. :P
That's what I said last year....
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Dead Muppets
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:27:00 -
[102]
I saw this coming miles away. The horror of 2 more months of PI-clickfest *sigh* ----- Amicus Morte is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:33:00 -
[103]
I salute this decision. I know it took you a lot of courage to do something like this (postponing expansion to achieve excellence).
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Khadann
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:35:00 -
[104]
What about the incursion expension website and trailers + wallpapers as we get usually? Sure the game is full priority, however, i can not wait to show my friends an other epic eve trailer!
Hya! |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:36:00 -
[105]
\o/ The 16th wasn't a good date anyway
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Memorya
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:38:00 -
[106]
Quote: More polished, more excellent features. More frequent and smaller releases. Less risky and long deployments.
This sounds ok, some sort. ------------------------ "English is a funny language; that explains why we park our car on the driveway and drive our car on the parkway."
English is my 5th. Language.
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Lyssa T'Kran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:44:00 -
[107]
When will the elimination of the shadermodel 2 support happen? I would like to know so that I can be sure to get my upgraded video card by that time. I would hate to try to do the update and discover I cannot play for possibly 2 weeks while i order my new card.
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Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:45:00 -
[108]
Glad to hear CCP is listening to CSM and focusing on polishing this expansion - I'm very excited to see how it turns out :)
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Tomcat
Gallente Bad Kitty Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:53:00 -
[109]
Underwhelming Sansha Supercarrier and expansion delays... I wonder how many times CCP will continue to say the world "Excellence" before they or us actually start to believe it.
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Aeo IV
Amarr Oneironautics Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:55:00 -
[110]
does this mean we'll be able to fight for Sansha's nation?
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:56:00 -
[111]
A staggered release is an interesting fresh approach from CCP ... making Nov, Dec and Jan an interesting period for players.
It's good someone in CCP finally recognizes that the need for a reasonable polish for each expansion - which is not the beta state of gameplay. Another kudos to CSM for bashing it over their head till it bleeds. Nevertheless, I'm skeptical as always, but we'll see how this pans out fully in Jan.
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Irumani
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:00:00 -
[112]
We don't care about deadlines, we care about the game.
CCP, please take any time you want to finish features you wanna add into the game. We don't want another half-finished expansion like Dominion or Tyrannis. But remember, we care about the game, meaning if you can postpone expansions and that's totally okay, please talk to us. Let us know what you're working on, and that you're doing good work on it.
tl;dr : moar devblogs & moar excellence = happy players.
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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:03:00 -
[113]
BUT
BUT CCP
How about a Nightmare before Christmas?
*note I am not sure who the original creator of that image is. I first saw it in the Live Events channel. We Sansha dearly love it so. ______
True Slave Foundations Overseer A place of meeting |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:04:00 -
[114]
Good plan.
Is this series of patches going to still be called Incursion? ...
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:05:00 -
[115]
"We have a few options for contained changes we can put out in a beefy mini-expansion in November that may include (but are not limited to):
80 new story line courier missions Rocket balancing Tech 2 ammo balancing Adding faction ships to the market Fighter bomber missile visual effects changes Anti-aliasing support Window resizing, camera offset Meta-item indicator icons UI optimization to contract delivery filtering Cargo can now be dragged to hangar by dropping on Neocom Toggling probes in overview POS gunners now receive notifications about control towers under attack Sorting deliveries according to distance in jumps or regional locations Unique icons for Microwarpdrives and Afterburners"
End Quote.
You're breaking your own rules CCP and failing to live up to your own high standards. That list is the most pathetic excuse for a delivery I've seen to date in this game. You employ more and more people at CCP only to release less and less each expansion.
Having started playing during Castor as my first and only MMO, I have watched Eve change from rapid improvement and large amounts of new content (like with Exodus and Red Moon Rising) initially; each subsequent release then generally got worse and worse in terms of quality, with less and less real content and with more and more hype each release.
I for one have seen enough now to believe the Eve I began playing and saw change and improve rapidly has become stagnant and relatively boring due to you at CCP failing to continue to improve the game at the same rate we were accustomed to. If this is what passes for an expansion nowadays then you should be ashamed compared to the greater/better content less people used to deliver. Or perhaps like Nathan said that you were "Over-delivering" with the early expansion, whatever it was that level of commitment to improving the game I feel is no longer there from you at CCP.
My subscription was already cancelled after last release, I've been playing with PLEX since, but seeing your plans for the next "release" I dont think its even worth continuing to spend my time playing Eve anymore. Other companies probably make games better than you do nowadays and Eve is just limping on in order for CCP to coin a bit more money for other new projects.
So thanks for the fun and goodbye.
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Kushan
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:11:00 -
[116]
Sounds really good! I for one am glad you are focusing on polishing features before releasing content. A portent of future releases? I sure hope so ;P
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15k 53113r
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:16:00 -
[117]
Originally by: wizard87
My subscription was already cancelled after last release, I've been playing with PLEX since, but seeing your plans for the next "release" I dont think its even worth continuing to spend my time playing Eve anymore. Other companies probably make games better than you do nowadays and Eve is just limping on in order for CCP to coin a bit more money for other new projects.
So thanks for the fun and goodbye.
Can I have your stuff?
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brutoid
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:16:00 -
[118]
An expansion just for the sake of having one is not what was needed right now, so i applaud this move.
Can we get a word on PI?
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Meldgaard
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:16:00 -
[119]
I think this is one of the best think ccp has done in a while. Its so good to see that they are more devoted to excellence the to have new contend on some abatray dates. I have been hoping for a fine tuning expansion for a long time, and finally its here. \o/
Good job to ccp for taking a step in the right directions now we can only hope they are following it through.
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Daenna Chrysi
Amarr Psychedelic Party lNERVl
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:16:00 -
[120]
*sneaks in to santa's place here in Finland and scouts the place out*
lets see... why I have a feeling the new PI stuff comes out in december?
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inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:20:00 -
[121]
Edited by: inexistin on 11/11/2010 19:22:40 This news both brings both joy and sadness to my heart... however, if the new character creator were to magically reappear on Sisi with more stuffs for us to mess with, I'd forget about the part with sadness...
EDIT: Seems the character creator is back up. That being said, I have no idea why I'm still wasting time editing this post. _________________________________________________
Small-scale pew pew!? Lies, yo' blob is on intel!!1 |
DJ Obsidian
New Eden Technical Institutes
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:20:00 -
[122]
Edited by: DJ Obsidian on 11/11/2010 19:21:30
Originally by: wizard87
Hi I am a person posing at a bitter old vet, I failed to read that this expansion is in 3 parts and the stuff i posted was only part 1. I also failed to notice that everything in part 1 was stuff that had been asked for months and for some items over a year to be changed. I do not care about fixing old broken stuff I only want new stuff but because I failed to read everything I think that the back log of changes is the only thing in this expansion.
FTFY
Stuff I can has cause you sir are obviously an idiot.
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:23:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Anna Ooze How about different icons for BPO vs BPC ?
Now that would be a nice little addition too!
With 64 Bit Inventory that we deployed in Tyrannis 1.2 then we finally have the needed backend support in the inventory system to be able to entertain the notion of implementing this feature. It won't be in this release though.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Lirinas
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:30:00 -
[124]
I remember some updates being delayed or broken-up into a couple mini-expansions in the past (RMR I think was like this). Delaying things is perfectly acceptable in my book - and the fact that some of the simpler things will still be released in Nov. apart from the "meat" of the expansion is even better. Anything is preferable to the debacle that Tyrannis is.
Like other people, I'm also wondering when the Noctis will be released in all of this. I also am GREATLY curious when the PI Enhancements will happen.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:30:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
I agree with you that CCP needs to tell us what specifically is causing the delay, but look at it this way. If CCP is taking the time to correct it's mistakes in past releases, and provide some long needed polish on certain elements of the game (tech two ammo, etc) then when it comes to to release incarna, they won't have to delay it in turn due to fixing bugs from the past three releases.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
Here's the thing, though: We shouldn't be having money we spend on our game being sent off to making other ones and then used as an excuse. Trying to say that is just plain silly. As far as expansions go, WoW has had plenty of new-content releases that have added lots more to the game each time then CCP tends to with theirs.
Now, quibbling aside, I DO approve of this, CCP. Just remember that we're paying for EVE, not for your WoD game, if you'd please.
P.S. Give us the Noctis at the end of November. =/
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:32:00 -
[126]
Good choice.
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Jita Alt666
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:32:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Jita Alt666 on 11/11/2010 19:33:27 For the last 12 months Eve has stagnated with the poor quality expansions, dominion and tyrannis. Looking at dev blogs over the last 3 months all good money was on CCP releasing another pile of poop that would satisfy the ever narrowing market of fanbois. This move to fix errors first and delay releasing new material is nice step away from the previous ethos of mediocrity.
Well done here CCP, this is a wise long term decision that shows an emphasis on quality game features, mechanics and implementation. It is also nice to the see that the message from the CSM has made it to head office and that CCP are listening to the player base.
Seriously, nice job CSM. RIP T'amber.
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:34:00 -
[128]
Originally by: DJ Obsidian Edited by: DJ Obsidian on 11/11/2010 19:21:30
Originally by: wizard87
Hi I am a person posing at a bitter old vet, I failed to read that this expansion is in 3 parts and the stuff i posted was only part 1. I also failed to notice that everything in part 1 was stuff that had been asked for months and for some items over a year to be changed. I do not care about fixing old broken stuff I only want new stuff but because I failed to read everything I think that the back log of changes is the only thing in this expansion.
FTFY
Stuff I can has cause you sir are obviously an idiot.
Ironically, this quote also pretty much sums up what has happened to the Eve community in that time too.
There's no posing as a bitter vet here, I am a bitter vet. I'm bitter because the game I invested 5 years constantly playing has become something that the developers can't, won't or don't want to improve much more than where it is at now.
If you'd been around long enough you'd notice this is a mindset change at CCP, and this '3 part expansion' doesn't even add up to 1 decent expansion by their own high standards of 3-4 years ago. It just sums up the state of things at CCP that they can't deliver as much as they used to even with many, many more people.
No you cant have my stuff. I will probably go suicide Jita and burn as much as I can before I go. Toodles.
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Lolion Reglo
Interstellar Waffle Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:35:00 -
[129]
Im glad you guys are taking the time to make sure you release a good product instead of rushing it and dropping a load of crap on us. im more than happy with the schedule you put out for the incursion plan and cant wait till January now. keep up the good work!
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dtyk
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:44:00 -
[130]
Thank you CCP. This is what we wanted to hear.
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carebear one
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:45:00 -
[131]
Edited by: carebear one on 11/11/2010 19:47:33 Hi,
well it was absolutly clear and without a doubt that this patch would be moved. With all the pre-Incarna-parts in it, the pressure to release Incarna before 2050 would be too high.
So Incursion will be a little Fake-expansion to convince themself they did two expansions a year. Specially after even the main-appetizer of Incursion beside the pre-incarna-part will be out of the expansion and postboned without any date.
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:45:00 -
[132]
At first I was the disappointed.
Then I realized this will give me ample time to finish my solo EVE projects and join a corp somewhere before the release of Incursions thus freeing me from having to spam "Have Guardian, want to fleet with armor tankers" in local.
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:51:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Rustpunk Totally on board. Haters gonna hate, but they need to HTFU and get on board the Excellence freighter train.
This, Excellence Freighter Train FTW!
People are either going to ***** that things are going to be released late (which I see a few of already), or they are going to ***** when PI is half finished and POS's shoot blues. I know I'd rather have a later release date than be shot by my own tower any day. Props to CCP for listening.
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:57:00 -
[134]
Having the expansion broken into 3 parts is going to be great. From the technical standpoint it will address the issues of bugs and problems in smaller easier to tackle portions which is good for the GM's and good for the players as instead of a giant wall of bugs only have a small fence.
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Juan Sezole
Foxridge
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Posted - 2010.11.11 19:57:00 -
[135]
Plus marks for bowing to the inevitable and delaying this until AFTER the Christmas sales rush (oh me oh my).
Novembers "mini-expansion" is nothing more than Tyrannis 1.3, end of story. Not an expansion, its a patch. 80 new courier missions ... yup the macro brigade will love that!! No PI improvements???? Tweaks and balances.
Sigh well ONE REAL Expansion a year will have to do.
3/10 based mainly on CCP getting some common sense
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Chronos Rhem
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:21:00 -
[136]
Can we please haz our Noctis in the November patch please?
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:27:00 -
[137]
Rage Quitters ATTN PLZ:
Can I have your stuff?
/Generic Request ------------------------------------
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Aisley Tyrion
DAB
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:33:00 -
[138]
So will the November and/or December patches still be called 'Incursion' even though all the main features (the incursions themself) won't come out until January?
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Exordium8
Minmatar Universal Independence Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:33:00 -
[139]
Waiting until something is done and works right before releasing it? WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH CCP!? --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:37:00 -
[140]
But seriously, for the love of god, give us the Noctis this month.
Considering the way you're making incursions non-inclusive for rewards, thus making them rather horribly pointless for us unless we're in huge groups... I'd just rather have the Noctis as it's the only thing I'm excited for in the xpac. :P
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Hrothgar Doran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:55:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
I agree with you that CCP needs to tell us what specifically is causing the delay, but look at it this way. If CCP is taking the time to correct it's mistakes in past releases, and provide some long needed polish on certain elements of the game (tech two ammo, etc) then when it comes to to release incarna, they won't have to delay it in turn due to fixing bugs from the past three releases.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
Here's the thing, though: We shouldn't be having money we spend on our game being sent off to making other ones and then used as an excuse. Trying to say that is just plain silly. As far as expansions go, WoW has had plenty of new-content releases that have added lots more to the game each time then CCP tends to with theirs.
Now, quibbling aside, I DO approve of this, CCP. Just remember that we're paying for EVE, not for your WoD game, if you'd please.
P.S. Give us the Noctis at the end of November. =/
Damn, good point. Although keep in mind, CCP are allowed to do what they will with their money. Most of the time...
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:56:00 -
[142]
All good, I like the new approach. My only downer, more extended DTs during Aussie primetime. Otherwise, it's all good.
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Lyssa T'Kran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 20:59:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
I agree with you that CCP needs to tell us what specifically is causing the delay, but look at it this way. If CCP is taking the time to correct it's mistakes in past releases, and provide some long needed polish on certain elements of the game (tech two ammo, etc) then when it comes to to release incarna, they won't have to delay it in turn due to fixing bugs from the past three releases.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
Here's the thing, though: We shouldn't be having money we spend on our game being sent off to making other ones and then used as an excuse. Trying to say that is just plain silly. As far as expansions go, WoW has had plenty of new-content releases that have added lots more to the game each time then CCP tends to with theirs.
Now, quibbling aside, I DO approve of this, CCP. Just remember that we're paying for EVE, not for your WoD game, if you'd please.
P.S. Give us the Noctis at the end of November. =/
Damn, good point. Although keep in mind, CCP are allowed to do what they will with their money. Most of the time...
could be worse, they could charge for their expansions like WoW does...
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:01:00 -
[144]
Quote: But CCP delivers Two EVE Online expansions a year! That is our Deliver commitment. However, we also have a commitment to make them Excellent.
WOOOOOOOOOOOO
thank you guys SO MUCH.
guys we've successfully avoided another PI expansion! seriously though this is a smart move, I for one don't want to see somethign come out with almost 0 player testing, 0 polish, and lack of promised features, which then in turn is never patched or changed for "18 months"
(sorry couldn't help myself :P)
This has restored my hope in CCP : )
However... there was one thing I was going to resub for (no joke) which was the new forums. whats the deal ccp, are the new forums just out completely?
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Youli Kepain
Scapegoats
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:02:00 -
[145]
Originally by: CCP Zulu In this case, we've chosen to Deliver parts of the expansion in November and December, and the two key features in January with Excellence to respect both commitments.
I am Youli Kepain and I approve of this message.
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Hrothgar Doran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:03:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Lyssa T'Kran
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
I agree with you that CCP needs to tell us what specifically is causing the delay, but look at it this way. If CCP is taking the time to correct it's mistakes in past releases, and provide some long needed polish on certain elements of the game (tech two ammo, etc) then when it comes to to release incarna, they won't have to delay it in turn due to fixing bugs from the past three releases.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
Here's the thing, though: We shouldn't be having money we spend on our game being sent off to making other ones and then used as an excuse. Trying to say that is just plain silly. As far as expansions go, WoW has had plenty of new-content releases that have added lots more to the game each time then CCP tends to with theirs.
Now, quibbling aside, I DO approve of this, CCP. Just remember that we're paying for EVE, not for your WoD game, if you'd please.
P.S. Give us the Noctis at the end of November. =/
Damn, good point. Although keep in mind, CCP are allowed to do what they will with their money. Most of the time...
could be worse, they could charge for their expansions like WoW does...
Personally I don't mind them working on other projects, but thats probably because I love the idea's of WoD and Dust
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:06:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran Personally I don't mind them working on other projects, but thats probably because I love the idea's of WoD and Dust
I would mind the working on WoD a lot less if they didn't try and mask it with Incarna. They've already admitted that Incarna has, at best, barely any gameplay value aside from being able to walk around in ships. They've admitted that huge portions of the resources that are dedicated to EVE are dedicated to Incarna.
Of course, there is another game they are working on in which the technologies they are developing with Incarna would be utterly perfect... Meaning that 80 percent of EVE's resources are being spent on WoD ALONG with whatever else they are actively marking as spent on it.
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Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:10:00 -
[148]
So on 30th November, the new expansion goes live but doesn't go live? Seems to be a way of releasing something to keep people happy, yet not releasing everything in one go to prevent even more tears from the 0.0 and Jita community. If this keeps the whiny emo gits quiet, I'm all for it.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:10:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 11/11/2010 17:32:11 Unacceptable, CCP.
This amounts to a CANCELLATION of this expansion, with it's replacement with stuff that is mostly UI tweaks which will need God knows how many interim patches to fix.
Yes, we do want things released only when they are actually done right.
However, a 2+ months delay (really a cancellation of the Winter 2010 expansion) tells us that you aren't spending the proper resources on this game to meet both your commitment to giving us two major updates a year AND to do them right. The two are not mutually exclusive. Delays of days or even weeks to fix showstoppers found late in the process is fine, we're all for that. But it shouldn't be MONTHS, with major features vanishing on the cutting room floor.
This is no more acceptable an answer than rushing out junk like you did with Dominion and Tyrranus.
Seriously, CCP, this isn't a step forward. This just exposes how f'ed up your development and quality control models are and definite proof you haven't properly addressed either yet.
I love how you use the word "us" yet you're less than 1% of the popular opinion.
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Jaggins
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:13:00 -
[150]
Polishing the excellence is a good idea.
Ok, enough with the navel gazing, back to work space vikings!
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Labourer
The Damned Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:13:00 -
[151]
Originally by: John Zorg Fix the Hel bonus and fix the shield bonus issue. How many years are we still going to wait for these corrections?!?!?!?
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:34:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Astenion on 11/11/2010 21:37:44 I'd **** my pants and dance naked in the snow in my courtyard in front of all my neighbors if the Santa surprise is station walking, haha! It would be impossible, but can you imagine finding out that the surprise on Christmas Day would be, "Oh yeah, and your Christmas present is Incarna in January since Incursion was in November."
On a serious note, I'm glad they're not rushing anything and staggering the release...sounds like a great idea.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:38:00 -
[153]
I'm all for doing things 'right' or as close to 'right' as possible even if that means a delay. Having said that this is just a perfect example, for the first time perhaps, of CCP admitting they don't devote enough resources to things and not pushing it through. We saw not too long ago with Tyrannis how it wasn't properly planned out and the 'solution' we were told was to basically lower expectations so that didn't happen again. Now here we have CCP admitting they can't do it, or at least can't do it 'right' and will roll out what is 'done' and hold off on that which they think they can do more on or make even better, ****ING THANK YOU! Let me say that again, THANK YOU CCP for not dropping some broken glitch ridden POS on your customer base and telling them you are 'aware of the problem'.
As I said I think this shows you very possibly don't have enough resources to do what you plan, and *I* don't think the solution is to simply scale back what you do, that is an option, just not one I think EVE or the players deserve there is simply too much that you should/need to do in addition to whatever you want to add/iterate.
--Welcome to EVE where 'Commit to Excellence' means trying to squeeze another dime out of the player base.-- |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:39:00 -
[154]
Really really GOOD move. Best news since a while, and there were plenty of them.
Only point not so good is to release stuff in small packages, every month a little bit. That is unwise. You people, especially at marketing, need to learn more about psychology
Having one or two single highlights people can look forward to is so much better than an endless stream of small things. Otherwise people will think that their premium product is completely unfinished, broken and just a fake thing. Better do all the necessary things, wait until they are really good and then release them in a big and nice manner.
But this is just a side remark. In general: WELL DONE! |
Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:44:00 -
[155]
To give some background, the reason the November mini-expansion is mostly UI tweaks is that these are point-changes to EVE that can be added in isolation, whereas the main Incursion features are all inter-related.
It was clear from the internal communications that CCP agonized over this decision, but they clearly made the right call IMHO.
One consequence of this decision, which will no doubt be discussed at the December summit, is how this delay is going to affect the Spring expansion.
Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician The most expensive free trip to Iceland you'll ever win!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:49:00 -
[156]
Has anyone else noticed that the expansio will be up on SiSi for testing for 3 months?
We will get to see everything single tiny change they ever make, and unlike PI there will be ZERO confusion on direction. No hidden features/non-features.
They allready got rid of the circle wheels on the character creator and so on.
CCP, have you thought about using this as more of a standard expansion deployment?
no no I don't mean delay all of them :P But put up what is almost the feature finished non-polished expansion up on SiSi, and then release it, or delay it for a month based on player feedback with the final word based on the CSM.
I think the fact hat we aren't getting the new expansion is half a lie because it's unpolished version is already available!
I guess it's not realistic, but knowing I get to give feedback and play with the new features for 3 months is kinda awesome.
Or.. here is one more idea... More to One expansion a year, but have it up on SiSi for 6 months. Put as much you would usually put into 2 expansion but build it around player feedback.
maybe that's also unrealistic :P
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Korerin Mayul
Amarr hirr
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:51:00 -
[157]
This is probably the most important and best news to come out of CCP in 2 years. I totally support this, long may the drive for excellence continue.
keep going like this and i may start a third account.
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Online Dating For Single Men
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Posted - 2010.11.11 21:57:00 -
[158]
Great move, I'd like to see this become the standard implemetation of expansion roll outs.
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Max Torps
Nomadic Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:01:00 -
[159]
Nice approach CCP. Well done on showing that you are listening to us. I'll echo Mynxee and wish that you'd announced sooner, but I think many people already guessed with the conspicuous lack of a dev blog or two!
Great stuff, I'm really looking forward to the new features.
--- Starfleet Comms Podcast Your journey through the Eve Universe! |
ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:08:00 -
[160]
I was almost getting worried about this 2 releases per year fervor. I¦d gladly trade in one release for more polishing of the standard game.
This game and the core gameplay is nearly a decade old. IT needs polishing and new ideas more than some new pixels.
Originally by: Xaen Who are you and what have you done with CCP?
Please allow me a celebratory injection of a little color:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
QFT!
_________________________________________________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-[Red]`[b]Big damn heroes |
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Christian Schneider
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:15:00 -
[161]
when are you going to release the noctis (salvage vessel)?
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ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:25:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Christian Schneider when are you going to release the noctis (salvage vessel)?
Looks like in December. More power to my Marauder. Weee. _______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
derdlim
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:29:00 -
[163]
I think this is a good idea.
i also believe that CCPhf trying to push out 2 expansions a year was ok when the game was small and was their only project.
but now that EvE has grown over the last X years and are now developing more than just EvE I personally believe that they should only do 1 expansion per year to allow them to build up the hype for the expansion, and being able to test the new expansion more thoroughly and put more time into planning out the expansion.
If CCPhf waited and combined the last two expansion into one and released it around 9 months after Apocrypha would of giving them more time to plan it out. I like the idea of releasing the unpolished version of the expansion on SiSi a month to two months in advance to allow users to find any problems or bugs in the expansion. im sure if complete working PI was available for use on SiSi and CCPhf listened to the players who test it though would of have time to fix the clickfest that is PI.
I hope i communicated my thoughts clearly im not a native English speaker and learn it because of EvE :P
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Eniy Oh
Gallente United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:39:00 -
[164]
If the people posting here are representative for the entire EVE community, then less than 1% hate this move of CCP and 99% support it. In that case, realistically speaking, the minority is practically non-existant.
Where are the forum whiners? OMG!
Fake edit: I too, approve of this, BTW --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:53:00 -
[165]
Good call, CCP. I know you will use the extra time well.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:07:00 -
[166]
Whaaaat? What about the Planetary Interaction improvements! No mention? Do want! ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Kralin Ignatov
Gallente Macabre Votum
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:19:00 -
[167]
one can only hope this now means the end of times where we see boot.ini, "sentient-crazy-pos", or "dude, where's my titan bpo?" on patch day ______________________ There once was a killboard for BoB, then there was no BoB. - killboard.net |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:21:00 -
[168]
+1 for delayed excellence over rushed mediocrity (or worse)
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:23:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Korerin Mayul This is probably the most important and best news to come out of CCP in 2 years. I totally support this, long may the drive for excellence continue.
keep going like this and i may start a third account.
You do realize this is spin, right?
For them to delay this expansion means that it is so seriously screwed up that they had no chance of deploying it on time in a state which passes what passes in the MMO development community (but not any other) for quality assurance: Will it run without crashing the client and server every 10 minutes?
CCP still clearly has no problem publishing broken poorly tested junk to the live server, see the recent saga of Tyranus 1.1 and it's 6 "optional" patches.
No, what happened here is CCP missed their deadline and instead of owning up to it they are spinning it as somehow "good" because they are "listening to us" etc. Prediction: Whenever Incursion hits (if it ever hits, as I said earlier, the longer this is delayed the more it eats into time for joined at the hip Incarna/DUST514 the less likely we are ever to see Incursion) it will be no better than earlier expansions with respect to initial quality. They aren't taking extra time to make Incursion better. They are taking extra time because management came up with an unrealistic development plan that could not be done. Either that or they spent their budget on blow and hookers, there really isnt' an alternative possibility.
Indeed, Incursion really doesn't have much to it as it is, it's one of the thinnest expansions I've seen since first subscribing to EVE in 2007. What is in it?
1. A character creator (Incarna/DUST prerequisite, probably the highest priority item in the whole expansion) This benefits our gameplay how?
2. Improvements to a hastily made PI UI. Other than the "they should have done this one expansion AGO" factor, this really adds nothing to our gameplay. We already have PI. A PI with a better UI only makes what we already have less aggravating to do, it's not a big addition to the game, hardly expansion worthy, should have been in Tyrannus 1.1 or something.
3. An apparently (since it won't be seen for months past the time it was due) hastily made "Incursion" system made up of recycling the sleeper and wormhole AI systems. From the Dev blogs, these things will probably be more of an annoyance than an asset, since there appears to be no reward for someone who doesn't play the game for carebear purposes 23.5/7. Like factional warfare, it seems to be what could have been a great idea being very poorly executed, and thus something that I won't bother with. This is the only part of the "expansion" that could be called worthy of the term. As part of an expansion, not as the whole point of the expansion.
4. One ship that salvages. woot. Useless to anyone who isn't an empire mission runner who doesn't have Marauders yet. Which all the serious bears already have... Hardly worth advertising on the retail box.
5. One supercap ship that is either "pre nerfed" into worthlessness or overpowered and game breaking. CCP never seems to balance the two. Given that 90% of the subscriber base will likely never own one in the time they subscribe to this game, much less before the next "expansion" comes out it's probably less worthy of going on the retail box's bullet points than the salvage ship above.
As I have said, we are owed a more detailed explanation as to WHY such an extended delay. What went wrong? Was it poor planning? Is it showstopper bugs? Or are we being lied to, in that they knew when they made the announcement there was ZERO possibility of meeting the deadline, and we've been shown what amounts to vaporware demos and sold a bill of goods.
CCP has more than sufficient revenues to BOTH do two quality updates a year that are free of serious flaws AND on time.
If they can't, it's time for management changes.
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Erik Finnegan
Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:23:00 -
[170]
Thank you, CCP, for committing to excellence. I do not even want to imagine the greater implications of this date shift; now only two months before fanfest, this will have repercussions in the whole company.
But you're making your customers happy with this decision ! |
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:28:00 -
[171]
Will they all be called incursion, or will it go 1)In 2)Incur 3)Incursion
?
Also, the titular feature will be the one included last.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:30:00 -
[172]
To all the *excellence? OMG thanks* fanbois in this thread:
WHEN INCURSION COMES OUT AND IS AS AWFUL AS THE PAST TWO EXPANSIONS, WHAT KISS-@55 TALKING POINT WILL YOU BE PARROTING THEN?
I'm pretty curious. TIA for your answers.
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Zaruda
Minmatar Combat and Recon
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:31:00 -
[173]
Lets get this on I've been realy waiting very long. I'm ready to kill the nation let them bring it on. Yarr! The God Of Rage |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:31:00 -
[174]
You're doing the right thing, CCP. 100% support.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:35:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Alice Celadon To all the *excellence? OMG thanks* fanbois in this thread:
WHEN INCURSION COMES OUT AND IS AS AWFUL AS THE PAST TWO EXPANSIONS, WHAT KISS-@55 TALKING POINT WILL YOU BE PARROTING THEN?
I'm pretty curious. TIA for your answers.
Exactly. By playing this card, CCP is setting themselves up for industry headline grabbing universal scorn unless this thing is absolutely perfect. And I mean PERFECT. I think the expansion is far more likely to delete a critical Windows system file than it is to be that, if for no other reason than CCP has actually DONE that before.
The Dominion/Tyrannus "vote for us for game of the year" backlash debacle will pale in comparison.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:37:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Korerin Mayul This is probably the most important and best news to come out of CCP in 2 years. I totally support this, long may the drive for excellence continue.
keep going like this and i may start a third account.
You do realize this is spin, right?
You may well turn out to be right. But I'd rather give CCP the benefit of the doubt. Most players want CCP to take more time and get it right. They've asked for more time, now it's up to them to get it right. I'm hoping they will.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:41:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
By playing this card, CCP is setting themselves up for industry headline grabbing universal scorn unless this thing is absolutely perfect. And I mean PERFECT.
I will be happy with 'this expansion broke nothing and made the game somewhat better'. I suspect there will be no excrement-storm if it manages that.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:43:00 -
[178]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson I will be happy with 'this expansion broke nothing and made the game somewhat better'. I suspect there will be no excrement-storm if it manages that.
Same here, personally. But given the wait on the Noctis, WTB getting one in my stocking this Christmas. Not getting the ability to buy it, but the actual ship. :P
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:44:00 -
[179]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Korerin Mayul This is probably the most important and best news to come out of CCP in 2 years. I totally support this, long may the drive for excellence continue.
keep going like this and i may start a third account.
You do realize this is spin, right?
You may well turn out to be right. But I'd rather give CCP the benefit of the doubt. Most players want CCP to take more time and get it right. They've asked for more time, now it's up to them to get it right. I'm hoping they will.
I'd love to give CCP the benefit of the doubt.
However, a lot of the stuff they've done since Quantum Rise (the last expansion they released that was actually of good quality that made the game better) gives me no reason to. Plus, they are showing signs of "cash shop envy" and they are spending a lot of our resources on games not called EVE Online.
And I've been burned far too many times by MMO developers to much like or trust any of them. Star Wars Galaxies NGE. I need say no more.
This delay is because management screwed up their development plan and they didn't finish on time. It has nothing to do with flaws in the expansion. It's becoming more and more clear that Incursion is an afterthought, shoehorned in the Dev's spare time away from Incarna/DUST514 because they have to release two expansions a year. Why not be honest and just own up to this? Don't lie to us about this being all about quality and nothing else when quality has never mattered to you before!
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Keiko Kobayashi
Amarr Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:47:00 -
[180]
I tried the character creator and although it looks really nice IÆm glad youÆre postponing the release because, it seems not ready for prime time yet, and I would hate to have to create a portrait that isnÆt exactly the way I want it to be.
By the way, are you going to allow redesigns of the character in the future as more features get added? At least for hair styles, make-up, tattoos, clothes, etc? Paid for with ISK if you wish...
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:53:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Keiko Kobayashi I tried the character creator and although it looks really nice IÆm glad youÆre postponing the release because, it seems not ready for prime time yet, and I would hate to have to create a portrait that isnÆt exactly the way I want it to be.
By the way, are you going to allow redesigns of the character in the future as more features get added? At least for hair styles, make-up, tattoos, clothes, etc? Paid for with ISK if you wish...
Paid for in the upcoming cash shop (CCP has hired someone to develop macrotranscams), mark my words. You won't have tailors and other players making you outfits and you wont' be paying ISK for them, you will be paying for them in dollars or euros.
The days of new things being added as tools in the sandbox are probably over, sadly.
PS: I call RMT "microtransactions" MACROtranscams because there is nothing micro (as in small) with respect to their intentions on your wallet.
If CCP wants to do RMT and add cash shops, they need to do it in another game, not this one.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:57:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
I agree with you that CCP needs to tell us what specifically is causing the delay, but look at it this way. If CCP is taking the time to correct it's mistakes in past releases, and provide some long needed polish on certain elements of the game (tech two ammo, etc) then when it comes to to release incarna, they won't have to delay it in turn due to fixing bugs from the past three releases.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
Here's the thing, though: We shouldn't be having money we spend on our game being sent off to making other ones and then used as an excuse. Trying to say that is just plain silly. As far as expansions go, WoW has had plenty of new-content releases that have added lots more to the game each time then CCP tends to with theirs.
Now, quibbling aside, I DO approve of this, CCP. Just remember that we're paying for EVE, not for your WoD game, if you'd please.
P.S. Give us the Noctis at the end of November. =/
Do you think it would be sensible for CCP to only ever rely on one product? If not, how else should they fund the development? By selling out to a publisher?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:09:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Malcanis Do you think it would be sensible for CCP to only ever rely on one product? If not, how else should they fund the development? By selling out to a publisher?
Do you think that it is sensible for CCP to both have allocated funding for WoD AND expend 80-90 percent of EVE resources on systems for WoD? Systems that they have tacitly admitted will add no real gameplay value to EVE?
And as far as 'reasonable', I'd say that it's quite unreasonable of them to plan on making a FPS... hosting it on X-Box instead of focusing on PC... and then not have any clear plans on how to link it to EVE. This makes Dust nothing more then a generic sci-fi FPS. There's a word for that already, it's called Halo.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:14:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Malcanis Do you think it would be sensible for CCP to only ever rely on one product? If not, how else should they fund the development? By selling out to a publisher?
Do you think that it is sensible for CCP to both have allocated funding for WoD AND expend 80-90 percent of EVE resources on systems for WoD? Systems that they have tacitly admitted will add no real gameplay value to EVE?
.
yes
That's what companies do.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:14:00 -
[185]
Originally by: MotherMoon yes
That's what companies do.
That's what failing companies do.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:29:00 -
[186]
Way to go CCP. Way to go.
I mean that as un-sarcastically as humanly possible.
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:30:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Malcanis Do you think it would be sensible for CCP to only ever rely on one product? If not, how else should they fund the development? By selling out to a publisher?
Do you think that it is sensible for CCP to both have allocated funding for WoD AND expend 80-90 percent of EVE resources on systems for WoD? Systems that they have tacitly admitted will add no real gameplay value to EVE?
And as far as 'reasonable', I'd say that it's quite unreasonable of them to plan on making a FPS... hosting it on X-Box instead of focusing on PC... and then not have any clear plans on how to link it to EVE. This makes Dust nothing more then a generic sci-fi FPS. There's a word for that already, it's called Halo.
Worse than that, because it is supposed to link with EVE, DUST514 is dictating to a certain extent the development schedule of EVE, to absolutely NO benefit to existing customers. This is probably one of the reasons why Incarna is being linked to it at the hip, for reasons other than the fact that it pretty much has to be in for DUST to launch.
It is very easy to see that DUST is very likely to fail. MMOFPS games haven't been very successful in the first place, and that's on the PC, much less on a console which is a far worse FPS platform than a PC. We all need to hope that CCP doesn't bet so much money on DUST that it's (almost certain) failure causes the company to collapse and have to be sold to the likes of SOE or Cryptic...
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Lyssa T'Kran
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:30:00 -
[188]
It's normal for companies to take large portions of the profit from one project to fund other projects, and i'm talking about more than half. It's called diversifying, and its what keeps companies afloat. if CCP were to put all it's eggs in the EVE basket, and EVE were suddenly to lose popularity, the company would be in big trouble.
I've worked for technology companies, working closely with the engineers. This is common practice. Once you've paid the money for their service, it's their money, they can do whatever they want with it, as long as they are still fulfilling their part of the terms of service. Anything else is internal policy and they can change it as they wish.
If you don't like what the company is doing with your money, you can do one of three things. Buy stock and get your voice heard at shareholders meetings (which is really the only voices most companies care about anyway), vote with your "feet", or just shut the heck up and keep playing.
I'm still waiting to hear about when the SM2 support will be removed.
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:46:00 -
[189]
Jack Gilligan seems mad.
But that's okay, it's entirely his prerogative to make cynical assumptions and dislike all the development goals of the game he's playing!
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Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:54:00 -
[190]
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zulu newest blog provides an update on the EVE Online: Incursion expansion.
This is probably a good way to deal things... for now.
I must say that EVE probably reached some end point, a top of the hill from where cant go any further. Feeling that for CCP, EVE is not their main priority anymore, is stronger each month. They developing other games, starting new projects, its not like when they have only EVE to deal with.
Now we have two months delay, in next year there will be 3 months delay and one new expansion (two with '2010 incarna'). Also adding micropayments to the game, lowering isk value and not increasing eve staff....
Well maybe that expansions are free, but game itself isnt. People paying each month for game with one bugged expansion per year deserve something better and i think most of them will agree with that. And its in CCP interests to keep thoose people in the game, if there is a problem, a delay, they should employ more people, or better people to fix it so next time there will be no delay.
We are not in 2003 when there was only few interesring mmorpgs, hope you see it CCP.
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:57:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Hrothgar Doran And that $26 million a year is being divided into developement on 3 different games, only one of which is bringing in said revenue. And consider that wow (making $258 million a year) has only released 2 expanions so far, soon to be 3.
If they made a mistake, be happy they are correcting it sooner, rather than later. Or worse, never.
Here's the thing, though: We shouldn't be having money we spend on our game being sent off to making other ones and then used as an excuse. Trying to say that is just plain silly. As far as expansions go, WoW has had plenty of new-content releases that have added lots more to the game each time then CCP tends to with theirs.
Now, quibbling aside, I DO approve of this, CCP. Just remember that we're paying for EVE, not for your WoD game, if you'd please.
Do you think it would be sensible for CCP to only ever rely on one product? If not, how else should they fund the development? By selling out to a publisher?
I think it would be entirely sensible for a software company to have a single product that was well-made and profitable. Plenty of them do.
I also think it would be entirely sensible for a company with deep-pocketed backers (investors, a publisher, eccentric Russian aluminum tycoons) to raise growth capital to invest in expanding their product offerings. Lots of companies do that, too.
CCP thinks they can have their cake and eat it, too. Well, they said, we'll have everyone work on Apocrypha to gel our scrum teams, and then we'll have guys work on WoD and DUST, and the players won't notice the difference (or if they do, they'll be too addicted to quit in significant numbers). We'll continue to deliver some content to be integrated with these new releases and tie into the universe. Our marketing department says the average user plays for 9 or 10 months, and then quits, and sometimes they come back for new expansions, so we'll continue to roll out the expansions twice yearly.
Look, they said: people have been playing since 2003 with the same science/industry interface, the same POS mechanics and interface, a sizeable amount of ships and weapon systems in the game being near-useless or poorly balanced, boring and macro/bottable PVE content, punishingly boring sov mechanics, and a whole litany of flaws. If they've been putting up with that until 2008, then surely they won't mind another couple of years while we diversify our revenue streams.
Then, cracks started to appear. Their development schedule was overly ambitious -- they promised to do more than they were able, and to deliver it faster than was practical. Players/customers got pretty ****ed off, and did their best to tar the company with bad press for releasing buggy, poorly designed software. Veterans started leaving the game because they were bored, and the last new expansion actually resulted in a decrease in subscription revenue.
If I were Hilmar, I'd take several teams from Atlanta and Shanghai and put them on Eve. I'd say enough of this crap about microtransactions, we're just going to focus on making the game as fun and high-quality as possible, and the revenue side will take care of itself. Make it the kind of game that people excitedly tell their friends about, and get them to come play with them. Don't just go to war on RMTers, but also macro-botters, because if your game is played by a bunch of robots, the humans aren't going to have much fun. Fix interfaces to reduce tedium, balance ships and weapon systems on the doublequick, and don't be afraid to experiment. Then, once the game is shiny and growing quickly again, raise the sub cost to $20/month if you need more money.
But I'm not Hilmar, so I'm just gonna spend my remaining isk on GTCs to keep my skill queues active and hope the game gets better before I lose all interest.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:59:00 -
[192]
CCP, THIS is the way you do it. Excellent. Congratulations. It took a LOT of moaning, whining, megathreadnaughts, threats, pleading and plain downright shouting, but eventually you guys have stepped onto the plate and have begun to deliver patches the way they should be delivered. 10/10.
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.12 01:03:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Rikki Sals Jack Gilligan seems mad.
But that's okay, it's entirely his prerogative to make cynical assumptions and dislike all the development goals of the game he's playing!
Not mad. Disappointed.
CCP is supposed to be better than this.
Frankly I could care less if Incursion is ever released, there's not a thing in it that I think will be for me anyway. My disappointment is in the fact that over the last year CCP has shown extreme management and developer incompetence, the failure to put out a relatively meaningless expansion within MONTHS of it's release date just being the final exclamation point on what has inarguably been CCP's worst year of development in this game's history.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.12 01:12:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Rikki Sals Jack Gilligan seems mad.
But that's okay, it's entirely his prerogative to make cynical assumptions and dislike all the development goals of the game he's playing!
Not mad. Disappointed.
CCP is supposed to be better than this.
Frankly I could care less if Incursion is ever released, there's not a thing in it that I think will be for me anyway. My disappointment is in the fact that over the last year CCP has shown extreme management and developer incompetence, the failure to put out a relatively meaningless expansion within MONTHS of it's release date just being the final exclamation point on what has inarguably been CCP's worst year of development in this game's history.
and how does it make you feel that only 3 other people agree with you?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.12 01:15:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: MotherMoon yes
That's what companies do.
That's what failing companies do.
failing companies invest in new opportunities?
god someone better tell Nintendo, blizzard, EA, Harmonix, Capcom, Mircosoft/ the guy that made mincraft.
The fact that they made more than one product is obviously why they are all failing companies.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 01:38:00 -
[196]
Originally by: MotherMoon That's what failing companies do.
failing companies invest in new opportunities?
god someone better tell Nintendo, blizzard, EA, Harmonix, Capcom, Mircosoft/ the guy that made mincraft.
The fact that they made more than one product is obviously why they are all failing companies.
Also wr3cks, when i joined eve they had 20 devs total.
Now even with one third of thier total devs working on eve (as in 100 out of 300) that's still 5 times the number they used to have.
you sound like a spoiled brat.
Failing companies try and split their resources and hope that noone notices, yes. Of all the ones that are theoretically working on EVE, very few are actually working on gameplay, or on fixing bugs. Most are working on a product that is just a shell-program for WoD.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 01:53:00 -
[197]
CCP probably realized that at this stage in the game, promising things they're not completely sure they can deliver is a bad idea. How much further can Eve go, save Incarna? Honestly? We have to look at things realistically. Station walking is the only thing left that would be considered a "huge" development for the game. DUST would be as well, but that's a completely different game and we're talking strictly Eve here. We've got great graphics, sound, gameplay, planetary involvement, freedom, and the only thing left would be station walking.
We play Eve because we love what it is, not because we want it to be something else. I think some of you may be setting the bar a little too high for what we're working with. CCP realized that it's only a matter of time before ideas to fill the free expansions dry up. With this expansion they're addressing lots of player issues, staggering the patches to ensure they're up to snuff, and introducing a new universe storyline-esque aspect to the game with Incursion. What more do you want from CCP? Do you think we'll eventually be able to land on planets in Eve and play it FPS or something? Stuff like that is never going to happen.
We should be thankful for what we have and that Incarna is still on the table. Even WoW is completely changing their universe because people ran out of things to do.
CCP realized they don't need the added pressure of coming up with two releases every year. If there's nothing really left to add content-wise, why invent some half-ass expansion? To fill a quota? Who cares...it's a smart move on their part. What would you add to Eve in another expansion besides station walking and the constant whining about weapon fixes? I'm talking real, no-sh!t new stuff to do that hasn't ever been done...can you think of anything? I surely can't. Eve is just about stretched to its limits, just enjoy it for what it is and be appreciative of the work they've already done. Blizzard's expansions take two years to come out...AND THEY'RE BLIZZARD. Look at the work CCP has done so far and be happy.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:03:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Astenion Blizzard's expansions take two years to come out...AND THEY'RE BLIZZARD. Look at the work CCP has done so far and be happy.
I really don't see how people can keep parroting this statement as if it means anything. Seriously, does everyone that keeps stating this kind of thing just not read anything for themselves? =/ Yes, very large expansions take two years to come out. But in the interim, there are content updates that continually add new things to the game. I'd also point out, for the haters, that those have never nearly crippled the functionality that makes WoW a success - see the lagfests that replaced previously far more stable large-fleet actions.
I do quite enjoy EVE. If I did not, I would not be paying for it. I also think that, in the grand scheme of things, CCP finally admitting that they should wait on a release is a big step forward. To me it is the reason they are having to make us wait, the fact that 80 percent of EVE's dev staff are working on a project to influence another game, that is abhorrent to me. |
Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:11:00 -
[199]
I have mixed feelings about the staff working on WoD. On one hand, I can't wait to try WoD, but on the other it would be nice to see Incarna sooner. At the same time, I don't see how numbers would help Eve. Throwing more bodies at a problem doesn't necessarily mean more progress; it just means more people will water-down the project and get in the way of the original focus. Too many Indians and not enough chiefs just creates chaos.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:14:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper Edited by: Rheige Bladewhisper on 12/11/2010 02:08:45 Edited by: Rheige Bladewhisper on 12/11/2010 02:08:22
Originally by: Astenion Blizzard's expansions take two years to come out...AND THEY'RE BLIZZARD. Look at the work CCP has done so far and be happy.
I really don't see how people can keep parroting this statement as if it means anything. Seriously, does everyone that keeps stating this kind of thing just not read anything for themselves? =/ Yes, very large expansions take two years to come out. But in the interim, there are content updates that continually add new things to the game. I'd also point out, for the haters, that those have never nearly crippled the functionality that makes WoW a success - see the lagfests that replaced previously far more stable large-fleet actions.
I do quite enjoy EVE. If I did not, I would not be paying for it. I also think that, in the grand scheme of things, CCP finally admitting that they should wait on a release is a big step forward. To me it is the reason they are having to make us wait, the fact that 80 percent of EVE's dev staff are working on a project to influence another game, that is abhorrent to me.
Edit: Oh, and here, for every halfwit that keeps talking about the number of expansions EVE has had versus WoW: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/implemented/ there's 21 content pushes, not including the larger expansions themselves. Though some of them are relatively minor to the overall gameplay experience, there are still a heck of a lot there.
Yes, and look at the capital Blizzard has to work with. It didn't start with WoW and it took years to get there.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:17:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Rheige Bladewhisper on 12/11/2010 02:18:24
Originally by: Astenion Yes, and look at the capital Blizzard has to work with. It didn't start with WoW and it took years to get there.
And? That's neither here nor there in regards to the point I made, that point being that the people that keep talking about there only being three expansions for WoW, as if this made EVE's content pushes greater in some way, are mouth-breathers.
Edit: Yes, this means that you are in fact being one as well, Astenion, and you are also trying to dodge the erroneous point you initially made and riposte with another, weaker one.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:28:00 -
[202]
UI fixes and bug fixes, hell yes. Not sarcasm at all - this is the kind of update I've been waiting for. Thanks.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:33:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney UI fixes and bug fixes, hell yes. Not sarcasm at all - this is the kind of update I've been waiting for. Thanks.
Again, to keep from sounding like a superbitter supervet, I quite wholly agree here. This, in combination with the steady fixes to lag, are both ways to help slowly restore confidence in the product. I just hope that in their rush to work on WoD at the expense of EVE, and their finagling about with microtransactions, that CCP does not forget that trust is a currency.. one that they are currently somewhat low on, and need to build back up before trying to expend.
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Ramman K'arojic
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:37:00 -
[204]
Hey do we get PI improvements early or later.
Please end the click fest.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:38:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper Edited by: Rheige Bladewhisper on 12/11/2010 02:18:24
Originally by: Astenion Yes, and look at the capital Blizzard has to work with. It didn't start with WoW and it took years to get there.
And? That's neither here nor there in regards to the point I made, that point being that the people that keep talking about there only being three expansions for WoW, as if this made EVE's content pushes greater in some way, are mouth-breathers.
Edit: Yes, this means that you are in fact being one as well, Astenion, and you are also trying to dodge the erroneous point you initially made and riposte with another, weaker one.
There ARE only three expansions for WoW; the rest are just really big patches WHICH BLIZZ PUT OUT REGULARLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE *CAPITAL* (there's that word again which has somehow escaped you). Again, they can make these gargantuan patches and updates because they have both manpower and capital. A Blizzard update is equal to an entire CCP expansion, where is the disconnect here?
My point being, there's not much left to "expand" in Eve besides Incarna and fixes, and fixes aren't really expansions. If you wanna ***** about Eve being broken, that has nothing to do with the expansions, which is what I'm talking about. I'm not dodging any point whatsoever, just reiterating my original point that there's not much left to expand unless CCP can pull a few million subscribers out from under a rock somewhere. They're doing the best they can with what they've got.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:43:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Astenion
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper Edited by: Rheige Bladewhisper on 12/11/2010 02:18:24
Originally by: Astenion Yes, and look at the capital Blizzard has to work with. It didn't start with WoW and it took years to get there.
And? That's neither here nor there in regards to the point I made, that point being that the people that keep talking about there only being three expansions for WoW, as if this made EVE's content pushes greater in some way, are mouth-breathers.
Edit: Yes, this means that you are in fact being one as well, Astenion, and you are also trying to dodge the erroneous point you initially made and riposte with another, weaker one.
There ARE only three expansions for WoW; the rest are just really big patches WHICH BLIZZ PUT OUT REGULARLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE *CAPITAL* (there's that word again which has somehow escaped you). Again, they can make these gargantuan patches and updates because they have both manpower and capital. A Blizzard update is equal to an entire CCP expansion, where is the disconnect here?
The disconnect is that people try and use the term 'expansion' to indicate that there is some way that CCP is providing more content. All any of them are, at the end of the day, is content updates. And as for Blizzard, they didn't get to where they are by draining resources from their current money-maker to try and work on more niche, even higher risk markets.
That being said, part of how Blizzard did get to their current status as a financial juggernaut is by having a basic release philosophy of "when it's done, no earlier." It does appear that CCP is learning this, and I do applaud them for it. I just wish that it were for better reasons, this time around.
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Hobson's Choice
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:47:00 -
[207]
Who cares. You'll still be playing after the release :P
What is: "Anti-aliasing support" "UI optimization to contract delivery filtering"
The rest seems pretty sweet to me (that i can understand from a single line)
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:51:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Astenion on 12/11/2010 02:55:29 Edited by: Astenion on 12/11/2010 02:52:52
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Astenion
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper Edited by: Rheige Bladewhisper on 12/11/2010 02:18:24
Originally by: Astenion Yes, and look at the capital Blizzard has to work with. It didn't start with WoW and it took years to get there.
And? That's neither here nor there in regards to the point I made, that point being that the people that keep talking about there only being three expansions for WoW, as if this made EVE's content pushes greater in some way, are mouth-breathers.
Edit: Yes, this means that you are in fact being one as well, Astenion, and you are also trying to dodge the erroneous point you initially made and riposte with another, weaker one.
There ARE only three expansions for WoW; the rest are just really big patches WHICH BLIZZ PUT OUT REGULARLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE *CAPITAL* (there's that word again which has somehow escaped you). Again, they can make these gargantuan patches and updates because they have both manpower and capital. A Blizzard update is equal to an entire CCP expansion, where is the disconnect here?
The disconnect is that people try and use the term 'expansion' to indicate that there is some way that CCP is providing more content. All any of them are, at the end of the day, is content updates. And as for Blizzard, they didn't get to where they are by draining resources from their current money-maker to try and work on more niche, even higher risk markets.
That being said, part of how Blizzard did get to their current status as a financial juggernaut is by having a basic release philosophy of "when it's done, no earlier." It does appear that CCP is learning this, and I do applaud them for it. I just wish that it were for better reasons, this time around.
I'm right there with you on that point. A lot of these "expansions" are basically fixes with a few do-dad time wasters, i.e., PI. The concept is really cool but the real thing is somewhat lacking. Like I said in my original post, if CCP comes out with Incarna as the Santa surprise at Christmas, THAT would be a monster expansion.
Blizzard is now able to be the powerhouse it is and release high quality stuff because they have the money and resources to do it. They didn't get these resources from WoW, they got it from Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Diablo, and Diablo 2; WoW is simply their sugar daddy that affords them the opportunity to continue releasing big stuff. CCP's first real moneymaker was Eve. So in effect, Eve is Warcraft. Not WoW, but Warcraft. When CCP makes WoD and a whole slew of other top-notch games, Eve 2 will be friggin' mind-blowing. However, Eve's pretty damn good as it is, seeing as it's their primary moneymaker.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.12 02:57:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Astenion Blizzard is now able to be the powerhouse it is and release high quality stuff because they have the money and resources to do it. They didn't get these resources from WoW, they got it from Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Diablo, and Diablo 2; WoW is simply their sugar daddy that affords them the opportunity to continue releasing big stuff. CCP's first real moneymaker was Eve. So in effect, Eve is Warcraft. Not WoW, but Warcraft. When CCP makes WoD and a whole slew of other top-notch games, Eve 2 will be friggin' mind-blowing. However, Eve's pretty damn good as it is, seeing as it's their primary moneymaker.
Indeed, and the reason they got there is because of accepting the philosophy of "when it's done." Just like Valve, and any other company that relies on their product being quality. I really do hope CCP is starting to understand that. I really and truly do.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:00:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Hobson's Choice Who cares. You'll still be playing after the release :P
What is: "Anti-aliasing support" "UI optimization to contract delivery filtering"
The rest seems pretty sweet to me (that i can understand from a single line)
Anti-aliasing support means in layman's terms that the graphics are gonna get significantly better and more realistic-looking. Less sharp edges, more natural curves, etc.
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Clacker McDucky
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:02:00 -
[211]
I don't know why the hell people are complaining about this.
I think it's pretty astounding to expect 2 major expansions a year that are not buggy, given the enormity of creating new releases (like Dominion and Tyranis).
Frankly, I'd prefer a single, stable release every year versus two buggy releases that cause problems (like "spacial anomolies" in large fleet fights) that make the best elements of Eve difficult or impossible to use.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:05:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Astenion on 12/11/2010 03:08:37
Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
Originally by: Astenion Blizzard is now able to be the powerhouse it is and release high quality stuff because they have the money and resources to do it. They didn't get these resources from WoW, they got it from Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Diablo, and Diablo 2; WoW is simply their sugar daddy that affords them the opportunity to continue releasing big stuff. CCP's first real moneymaker was Eve. So in effect, Eve is Warcraft. Not WoW, but Warcraft. When CCP makes WoD and a whole slew of other top-notch games, Eve 2 will be friggin' mind-blowing. However, Eve's pretty damn good as it is, seeing as it's their primary moneymaker.
Indeed, and the reason they got there is because of accepting the philosophy of "when it's done." Just like Valve, and any other company that relies on their product being quality. I really do hope CCP is starting to understand that. I really and truly do.
I think they do because, frankly, they don't have any other choice. They're DAMN lucky STO ended up being a steaming pile, but now they've got the new Star Wars MMO to deal with, along with Black Prophecy and the like.
To be honest, this quota of 2 expansions per year doesn't work. It's obvious that at this stage in the game it's just not doable. I think it should be done away with. Concentrate on one big kickass expansion per year and release regular updates (NOT FIXES) as the need becomes apparent. Fixes should be done regularly and without being so newsworthy. Let's all be honest and admit that all these expansions are just appetizers to keep us entertained while we wait for Incarna.
I think CCP is finally taking a step in the right direction.
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Lallante
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:24:00 -
[213]
I hope CCP appreciates the overwhelmingly positive response to this supposedly 'bad' news, and learns something from it.
Your community isnt just a bunch of bittervets who hates any change or lack of change in equal measure. You've been going in the wrong direction for some time now, but, in recent months, seem to have pulled back from the brink and have started listening to us.
We -Will- support you when you make the difficult, but correct, decisions for the game. Most of us are here for the long-term.
I hope this marks a sea-change in CCP thinking away from short-termism, feature cramming and marketting-led timetables towards Excellence, because I promise you that both the game and CCP as a company will benefit (as it has in the past) from the legion of loyal veterans Excellence will command.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Mayham Jack
Caldari Forever Eternal Star Industries Mystic Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:30:00 -
[214]
So many of us play this game look forward to the upcoming expansions and correct timelines without bugs. I just hope this delay wont be full of bugs like the last 6 months of constant patch bug fix after fix after fix. Thanks for keeping us updated on the somewhat correct patch dates. I am disappointed that the full content wont be released on time but i rather have that then bug fix after bug fix patch.
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:51:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 11/11/2010 17:32:11 Unacceptable, CCP.
This amounts to a CANCELLATION of this expansion, with it's replacement with stuff that is mostly UI tweaks which will need God knows how many interim patches to fix.
Yes, we do want things released only when they are actually done right.
However, a 2+ months delay (really a cancellation of the Winter 2010 expansion) tells us that you aren't spending the proper resources on this game to meet both your commitment to giving us two major updates a year AND to do them right. The two are not mutually exclusive. Delays of days or even weeks to fix showstoppers found late in the process is fine, we're all for that. But it shouldn't be MONTHS, with major features vanishing on the cutting room floor.
This is no more acceptable an answer than rushing out junk like you did with Dominion and Tyrranus.
Seriously, CCP, this isn't a step forward. This just exposes how f'ed up your development and quality control models are and definite proof you haven't properly addressed either yet.
Please read this book and get back to us!
Thanks, Zen
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.12 04:01:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Mayham Jack So many of us play this game look forward to the upcoming expansions and correct timelines without bugs. I just hope this delay wont be full of bugs like the last 6 months of constant patch bug fix after fix after fix. Thanks for keeping us updated on the somewhat correct patch dates. I am disappointed that the full content wont be released on time but i rather have that then bug fix after bug fix patch.
just because it won't be out doesn't you mean you can't use it.
sisi
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General Domination
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Posted - 2010.11.12 04:22:00 -
[217]
Dear CCP,
I cry a load THANK YOU over the atlantic in CCP HQ for the Anti-Aliasing Support. Its great, because it was the greatest technical outdate in EvE beside the textures.
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Black Dranzer
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Posted - 2010.11.12 04:24:00 -
[218]
On the one hand, BOO I WANTED CHARACTER CREATION THIS YEAR, on the other hand, hey, we asked for it, we got it. Better late and better. -------------------------------------------------- Learning skills are an ultimatum, not a choice. |
Kireiina
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Posted - 2010.11.12 04:32:00 -
[219]
It's got to say something for CCP that announcing the expansion has suddenly become a bunch of UI, graphic and balance tweaks actually makes people happy.
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Gil Danastre
Amarr 5TH Combat Training Squadron
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Posted - 2010.11.12 06:06:00 -
[220]
I think a good yearly release schedule going forward would look something like this;
- 1 substantial expansion a year, released fall/winter.
- During the intervening months, release regular bug/balance patches. No more waiting 6 months for a major imbalance to get "looked at"
- Toss in small content patches throughout. Got a new model for X ship done? Toss it in!
I think ultimately this underscores that the 2 expansions a year thing is starting to hit it's limit. There's so much to EVE now just adding a little thing can break dozens of others. Plus, I think they're starting to run out of content ideas to put in there, hence the steadily decreasing "Wow" factor of all content updates. I mean, just going off of Wikipedias listing of the EVE expansions, we've got;
- Castor - Tech 2 ships - Conquerable Outposts in 0.0 - The agent mission running system - Research Agents
- Exodus - Deadspace areas - POS's - More ships - Sov claiming
- Cold War - Level 4 agents - COSMOS constellations - Freighters/Dreadnaughts - Better pirate factions - Player buildable stations
- RMR - New bloodlines - 23 new T2 ships - Carriers/Titans/Moms
- Rev I - Scan probes - Exploration - Contracts - T2 Invention - The drone regions - New player experience - Better galaxy map - Rigs and boosters - EVE voice
- Rev II - Overheating - Bombs - Level 5 agents - updating sov/starbases/outposts - Better tutorials
- Trinity - totally overhauled graphics engine - 20 new ships
- EA - Faction warfare - black rise
- QR - certs and medals - The Orca - indy ship rebalances - weapon grouping
- Apocrypha - Tech 3 ships with 3 of 5 subsystem variations (still waiting on the fifth!) - wormhole space, ~2200 new systems - sleepers - epic arcs - rig sizes
- Dominion - major sov changes - pirate epic arcs - faction ship rebalances
- Tyrannis - planetary interaction - landmarks? - new scorpion model - alienware lights?
- Incursion - Sansha incursions - new character creator - new ships (Noctis, sansha SC)
I mean I know Tyrannis has been stated as "what not to do", when you're bullet pointing a single ship model and color coded lights as major features you should rethink what you're doing. 1 expansion a year at the least would put some oomph back into the content side of things.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.11.12 06:09:00 -
[221]
I'm glad to see CCP admit they are not ready to push this expansion out live, and to hold back on some features until they are more complete. This isn't the first time though seems like some others got broke up to.
I am though disappointed that the list for November seems so small. Also is the Noctis coming out then?
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Raptor2022
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.12 06:42:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Raptor2022 on 12/11/2010 06:43:08 Well. Lets get the sad angry bit out of the way..... CCP why oh why are you delaying :( I've been waiting with great anticipation for this release.
On the other hand this a good thing! This is the first thread I've read since I started playing that has had more positive feedback than bad (Then again I only started playing just before the Tyrranis release so not much time has passed)
I agree with a lot of others on the thread. Rather a delay (an admitted one nonetheless ) than a buggy release that would take 6 months to fix and by that time Incarna has been released and no one even got a taste of what Incursion should have been.
Ok, I am going to start training up on a nice ship now for Incursion. A bit more time to get those very much needed armor compensation and Battleship skills up
Oh and +1 for AA
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2010.11.12 06:53:00 -
[223]
When is the upgraded PI coming out? Please don't say January... ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
DJ Obsidian
New Eden Technical Institutes
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Posted - 2010.11.12 06:54:00 -
[224]
I dont see why people are complaining this way of deploying an expansion.
Part 1 - release a sizeable amount of backlog changes.
Part 2 - some new content and new stuff and more fixes
Part 3 - the final portion and the true part of the expansion.
So from my views it looks like this expansion is going to be 50% polishing and 50% new stuff.
And to the whiners, go F*** yourselves, you demanded polishing of old content more than new stuff and you got it.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.12 07:36:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Astenion What would you add to Eve in another expansion besides station walking and the constant whining about weapon fixes? I'm talking real, no-sh!t new stuff to do that hasn't ever been done...can you think of anything? I surely can't.
Joystick flight
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Lyssa T'Kran
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Posted - 2010.11.12 07:38:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Originally by: Astenion What would you add to Eve in another expansion besides station walking and the constant whining about weapon fixes? I'm talking real, no-sh!t new stuff to do that hasn't ever been done...can you think of anything? I surely can't.
Joystick flight
first person flight would certainly be cool.
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Double Dee
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.11.12 07:41:00 -
[227]
will dust and wod be delayed too? will i still be able to buy sp (skill points) with plex on the december release?
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:23:00 -
[228]
Originally by: DJ Obsidian I dont see why people are complaining this way of deploying an expansion.
Part 1 - release a sizeable amount of backlog changes. Part 2 - some new content and new stuff and more fixes Part 3 - the final portion and the true part of the expansion.
So from my views it looks like this expansion is going to be 50% polishing and 50% new stuff.
And to the whiners, go F*** yourselves, you demanded polishing of old content more than new stuff and you got it.
^ This
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Geddings
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:29:00 -
[229]
this makes me feel better as the charecter creator in my opinion is not ready to be released this month I am glad they are going to wait a bit, however i hope this does not mean that the walking in stations will be pushed back too much,
however i imagine the good news is that walking in stations i am sure will be given plenty of time of play testing as the nice thing about Eve Online is that they dont "hide" features of upcoming addons from players meaning the test server is a great way to test out new featurees of addons if you cant wait :-)
Bravo to CCP for choosing to wait a bit before pushing incursion to work on the bugs and making it a better experience for everyone!
Bugs aside i think the new character creator is really nice cant wait to really dive in once more of the bugs are worked out :-)
My faith is restored in CCP :-) (aside from the somewhat botched test today but hopefully they will give out bonus points to at least everyone who posted in the forums around that time frame who didn't get in...lets hope).
:-D
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ArmyOfMe
Pastry Productions Inc. Focused Intentions
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:31:00 -
[230]
sad to see you cant get the expantion out in time, but glad to see that you wont just release the normal server breaking stuff you usally do.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:53:00 -
[231]
If you put yourself 2 months behind schedule how will you catch up so the next expansion is out on time? Is this the end of 2 expansions a year?
Also, are you sure you don't have to submit a press release or whatever it is you do over in Iceland? Because a big material event like delaying your main product by at least 33% sounds to me like something you need or at least should disclose. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Eowarian D
Indicium Technologies
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:59:00 -
[232]
I welcome this decision of CCP! Good thing they focus on the Excellence, instead of delivering more "unpolished" content. And smaller patches means less DT means more time to play! Good job CMS! Thanks for listening CCP and do something "unusual".
Tbh, now I'm even more looking forward to Incursion!
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Nalerem
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Posted - 2010.11.12 09:23:00 -
[233]
I'm not much for posting in these comment threads, but I think this is some of the best new I've read for a long time. Kudos to CCP for not releasing content before it's done and for the excellent information they have been providing the community lately. Also of course to the CSM, it really feels like they have been a major factor in the positive changes we've been seeing lately.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.11.12 09:28:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Zendoren Please read this book and get back to us!
Thanks, Zen
seconded
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.12 09:35:00 -
[235]
good to see it spread out other ideas can be incorparated in the meantime
sounds like budget issues are starting to hit ccp staffing though
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.12 10:51:00 -
[236]
Quote: That is our Deliver commitment. However, we also have a commitment to make them Excellent. In this case, we've chosen to Deliver parts of the expansion in November and December, and the two key features in January with Excellence to respect both commitments.
Excellent news. An extra month or two to polish the main features, but we still get the balance and UI fixes early.
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Shandir
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.11.12 10:55:00 -
[237]
As well explained in that book linked - more people != more work done/less bugs. CCP is developing a monstrosity of a code base that gets harder with every expansion to control. A lot of what they've done this expansion is set up the groundwork for making future expansions easier - Corification (both sharing code and cleaning it up so changes are easier and less buggy), and 64-bit(removing some dirty hacks that were causing issues) -> Both of those will make it easier for future expansions to have more content. I'm extremely glad CCP have decided that (for this expansion at least, keep it up) Excellence comes before Delivery. On time and bad (Tyrannis) is a waste of developer time, late and awesome (Incursion?) is both industry-standard and a much better way to do things. I vote that all future releases be delayed for months at a time! Spend that time making things work, building infrastructure to make the game better both in the ways we can see, and the ways we cannot, and finally doing a lot of gameplay testing and balancing to work out what it is the players want to play.
+1 CCP
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:21:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Clacker McDucky I don't know why the hell people are complaining about this.
I think it's pretty astounding to expect 2 major expansions a year that are not buggy, given the enormity of creating new releases (like Dominion and Tyranis).
Frankly, I'd prefer a single, stable release every year versus two buggy releases that cause problems (like "spacial anomolies" in large fleet fights) that make the best elements of Eve difficult or impossible to use.
FYI Tyrannis wasn't 'enormous' if it encompassed all that was/will ever be regarding planets that CCP has talked about, it still wouldn't approach 'enormous' they took what moon mining and asteroid mining and plopped it down on a planet, oh and a free collector's item ship, not in any way 'enormous'.
Before anyone goes there, no DUST514 isn't part of EVE Online no matter what CCP says it is a separate product that TIES/LINKS to EVE Online so even if Tyrannis marked DUST514 being released it still wouldn't make the Tyrannis 'expansion' 'enormous' being a different product and platform.
Part of why CCP can't do expansions properly is they don't allow enough time and/or resources to do them along with then pushing whatever **** falls out the hamster's ass on us instead of deciding it isn't good enough and fixing it first. The solutions are do/expect less, CCP's new approach from the CSM meeting, add more resources/time what they are doing THIS time. I favor the last solution but we will have to see what CCP does in the future, lower the expectations which from what I've been reading and not reading is the plan or allow more time resources to do things right which might be fluke.
--Welcome to EVE where 'Commit to Excellence' means trying to squeeze another dime out of the player base.-- |
Caghji
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:52:00 -
[239]
Hi one question for me
was going to wait for November release before overhauling all my PI stuff (upgrade to elite) as was expecting group extractor controls etc
now seems to be a bit confused on what exactly is coming out in November
if PI isn't being upgraded on this November expansion would like to be told as will set time aside now this weekend to upgrade PI stuff
Cheers in anticipation of answer
Caghji
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666Devious
Sinister Elite Supremacy.
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:54:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 11/11/2010 23:36:50 Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 11/11/2010 23:36:11
Originally by: Alice Celadon To all the *excellence? OMG thanks* fanbois in this thread:
WHEN INCURSION COMES OUT AND IS AS AWFUL AS THE PAST TWO EXPANSIONS, WHAT KISS-@55 TALKING POINT WILL YOU BE PARROTING THEN?
I'm pretty curious. TIA for your answers.
Exactly. By playing this card, CCP is setting themselves up for industry headline grabbing universal scorn unless this thing is absolutely perfect. And I mean PERFECT. We're talking Hilmar is Iceland's John Smedley type scorn.
Also, this is a card CCP can only play ONCE. And it's played.
I think the expansion is far more likely to delete a critical Windows system file than it is to be that, if for no other reason than CCP has actually DONE that before.
The Dominion/Tyrannus "vote for us for game of the year" backlash debacle will pale in comparison.
Epic, I stopped reading right here. I like to see this perfect. CCP hasn't had one expansion that hasn't been crap the first day it comes out.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:58:00 -
[241]
Each time CCP releases an "Expansion" I get less confident in CCP still showing any notable commitment to EVE.
The truth is there haven't been any Expansion for years now (since Apoc). The terms in the MMO-community are pretty well defined: There are patches, (free) content updates and expansions. One of the feature of EVE was that even the expansions were free. However if you look at what CCP nowaday markets as expansion then its clearly not an expansion. Its a free content update that you get with every MMO. The difference is that others give you this free content updates 4-6 times a year and CCP doesn't even manage to keep up to it's two-per-year ones.
And this incursion crap is only the end of a very long series. Look at what "features" are now supposed to come this year and then compare that to http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/updates/57 or http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/updates/58. Being an Eve-fan will make you cry. And both games are of similar age. Only Eve has a ton more subscribers, so CCP earns at least 5-10 times more money. But still EQ2 puts out free LUs that completely dwarf any of the latest expansions AND puts them out 4-6 times a year. And that although SOE is a pretty greedy company anyways.
Just sad. |
Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.12 12:05:00 -
[242]
A patch with fixes and backlogged changes? But... 18 months?!
Just kidding, this is excellent news! I'm glad you guys chose quality over quantity.
Originally by: CCP Navigator Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
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Lex Striker
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:29:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Lex Striker on 12/11/2010 13:30:13 Just want to say thanks for the update. Releasing this next Expansion in waves makes more sense to me anyways... release some, tweak some... release some more... tweak some more... etc... Based on my experience of 24 years working in IT, I can more than support this approach and surprised it is not done more in the online gaming world.
I will have to admit, that I was not impressed with CCP's recent releases, both in the latest Expansion and patches. It 'felt' like things were half cooked and released before they were ready. Not a good thing. This new way of doing business is a step to correcting this... I hope. Make sure something works before taking the next step... always worked for me.
As for the two Expansions a year that was promised? Well, I would rather have one good Expansion over time, then to have two like the last one.
For those nay-sayers who are whining and trashing CCP... what other online gaming company did you say you worked for again?
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:47:00 -
[244]
I was figuring it started to look like you had too many features for an expansion, glad you hacked it up, I was getting worried.
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Ethersapien
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Posted - 2010.11.12 14:00:00 -
[245]
As a relatively new player, with EVE as my only experience of MMO's and Tyrranis my only experience of an expansion I do not have a great deal to compare this new release to and therefore reserve judgement. However, I would like to reiterate a couple of comments I have noted on this forum, can we please get an update on the arrival of the Noctis and the tweaks to PI.
Thanks for a great experience CCP
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Allvan Harl
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Posted - 2010.11.12 14:15:00 -
[246]
No matter how you slice it, we get a better deal than the World of Warcraft players. They have to wait years for new stuff, and pay for it. We get it free, several times a year.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny
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Posted - 2010.11.12 14:57:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Lyssa T'Kran
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Originally by: Astenion What would you add to Eve in another expansion besides station walking and the constant whining about weapon fixes? I'm talking real, no-sh!t new stuff to do that hasn't ever been done...can you think of anything? I surely can't.
Joystick flight
first person flight would certainly be cool.
Holy effing crap that would be awesome! But then again, think about it...would it even be possible? Wouldn't they have to change the entire game engine and physics engine for that? That was really more my point: what could we possibly add to Eve besides station walking without having to completely recode the game? Using what we have to work with right now in the time frame for expansions we have now, what could possibly be added that's not already there besides Incarna, graphical updates, and fixes?
I foresee future Eve expansions becoming mainly fixes and updates with some storyline content. It's a great game as it is, and anything more would have to be Eve 2.
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Marcus Druallis
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.11.12 15:26:00 -
[248]
Probes on overview... lol. ****ing bull****. --
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Tweakalvos
Gallente ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.12 15:36:00 -
[249]
There taking a play from the Hi-Rez playbook for sure good job.
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.11.12 15:43:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Gil Danastre I think a good yearly release schedule going forward would look something like this;
- 1 substantial expansion a year, released fall/winter.
- During the intervening months, release regular bug/balance patches. No more waiting 6 months for a major imbalance to get "looked at"
- Toss in small content patches throughout. Got a new model for X ship done? Toss it in!
I think ultimately this underscores that the 2 expansions a year thing is starting to hit it's limit. There's so much to EVE now just adding a little thing can break dozens of others. Plus, I think they're starting to run out of content ideas to put in there, hence the steadily decreasing "Wow" factor of all content updates. I mean, just going off of Wikipedias listing of the EVE expansions, we've got;
- Castor - Tech 2 ships - Conquerable Outposts in 0.0 - The agent mission running system - Research Agents
- Exodus - Deadspace areas - POS's - More ships - Sov claiming
- Cold War - Level 4 agents - COSMOS constellations - Freighters/Dreadnaughts - Better pirate factions - Player buildable stations
- RMR - New bloodlines - 23 new T2 ships - Carriers/Titans/Moms
- Rev I - Scan probes - Exploration - Contracts - T2 Invention - The drone regions - New player experience - Better galaxy map - Rigs and boosters - EVE voice
- Rev II - Overheating - Bombs - Level 5 agents - updating sov/starbases/outposts - Better tutorials
- Trinity - totally overhauled graphics engine - 20 new ships
- EA - Faction warfare - black rise
- QR - certs and medals - The Orca - indy ship rebalances - weapon grouping
- Apocrypha - Tech 3 ships with 3 of 5 subsystem variations (still waiting on the fifth!) - wormhole space, ~2200 new systems - sleepers - epic arcs - rig sizes
- Dominion - major sov changes - pirate epic arcs - faction ship rebalances
- Tyrannis - planetary interaction - landmarks? - new scorpion model - alienware lights?
- Incursion - Sansha incursions - new character creator - new ships (Noctis, sansha SC)
I mean I know Tyrannis has been stated as "what not to do", when you're bullet pointing a single ship model and color coded lights as major features you should rethink what you're doing. 1 expansion a year at the least would put some oomph back into the content side of things.
Best post yet, shows just exactly how (with the exception of Apocrypha) CCP have failed to deliver to their original high standards, and with more CCP employees it is getting worse.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:04:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Astenion
Originally by: Lyssa T'Kran
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Originally by: Astenion What would you add to Eve in another expansion besides station walking and the constant whining about weapon fixes? I'm talking real, no-sh!t new stuff to do that hasn't ever been done...can you think of anything? I surely can't.
Joystick flight
first person flight would certainly be cool.
Holy effing crap that would be awesome! But then again, think about it...would it even be possible? Wouldn't they have to change the entire game engine and physics engine for that? That was really more my point: what could we possibly add to Eve besides station walking without having to completely recode the game? Using what we have to work with right now in the time frame for expansions we have now, what could possibly be added that's not already there besides Incarna, graphical updates, and fixes?
I foresee future Eve expansions becoming mainly fixes and updates with some storyline content. It's a great game as it is, and anything more would have to be Eve 2.
If the basic movement was handled by the client, (same as clicking in space - with rolling being purely cosmetic) it shouldn't add any extra lag to the server, other than what spam-clicking to move would. Physics should work as per normal.
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Viral Effect
Caldari BRAINDEAD Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:18:00 -
[252]
LetÆs hope you have fixed high sec agents sending a disproportionate amount of courier missions to low sec. That needs fixing.
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tehSiner
Abnormal Experience
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:23:00 -
[253]
* Meta-item indicator icons
What does this mean?
abnormal behavior of abnormal brain makes me normal |
Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:34:00 -
[254]
Thank you CCP for taking the time to deliver more polished content, I applaud you
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M'aak'han
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:46:00 -
[255]
Thank you CCP for screwing the "data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better" approach and committing to release Excellent features. And for actually listening to the player base. Kudos !
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Mara Xeno
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:59:00 -
[256]
* CCP releases expansion, that turns out to be buggy: Forum Members: Booo! Bugs! You suck! You should have waited!
* CCP delays expansion release to increase quality: Forum Members: Booo! Slow! You suck! You should release now!
Fun fact: Often the same Forum Members for both statements.
Bottom line: You can't please everyone. And some people are just dumb and impossible to please.
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Draco Argen
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:02:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Draco Argen on 12/11/2010 17:04:49 Ok, Normally don't feed Trolls;
1) I think it goes without saying if they release in Jan and its as bad or worse than normal then there will be crying. Point is hopefully this won't happen because CCP have made a correct decision in release scheduling.
B) CCPs financial resource allocation of profits is ENTIRELY up to them. They can be feeding Icelandic whales and not developing eve at all if they wanted. We just wouldn't be very happy, unless you liked both whales and spaceships.
B-2) NO ONE official has said they are using Eve money for WoD or Dust. It's a reasonable assumption but also stupid to argue about.
IV) I would be TOTALLY happy with a one of this release being entirely bug fixes (admittedly it would preferably include certain feature re-writes like POSes which might be considered "new"). So your not going to convince me personally this move is a bad one.
Apparently a high percentage of others agree this is a good move by the massive positive response thus far.
0101) Have you seen Sisi? From thread posts alone the current build is far from ready. Hangs, reboots, all sorts of issues. If you want that, keep egging for Nov release and you can have Multiplicity all to yourself warts and all.
*Sticks in Sign that reads "DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS*
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:03:00 -
[258]
Originally by: M'aak'han Thank you CCP for screwing the "data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better" approach and committing to release Excellent features. And for actually listening to the player base. Kudos !
They said something like "new features sells better than polishing old content" and this doesn't prove otherwise. What this does show is that broken/bugged content doesn't sell no matter how new it is. Polished new content will still propably sell much better than just polishing old content past a certain point though.
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Cajun Style
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:05:00 -
[259]
Holy ****, so you're saying that instead of giving me content that works you are nerfing scroch? Are you guys ******ed? You post a feature on Sisi, you promise it for a certain day, you let it get all of youtube, then you put it back on sisi except embarrassingly super broken, then you roll back your patch date by multiple months. Wow. And don't anyone tell me "ohai they are going for excllence." They already missed the window on excellent performance on this one. Normally I think that CCP has a masterplan behind what they do and I am like "wow, despite its flaws EVE is pretty ingenious," but with this patch I am genuinely seeing more things that are ******ed than things that are even remotely good. Like the SN supercarrier... I'm sure you all will make it look nice, I'm not *****inga bout that... just the suggested base stats show that whoever you have designing this content is worthlessly incompetent and has never played eve.
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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:06:00 -
[260]
THIS!
Originally by: Zendoren
Please read this book and get back to us!
Thanks, Zen
I usually give simple example, why scaling a software development team differs from scaling a team digging trenches...
Software Development Scaling
Yep, read the book, or at least the overview in the Wiki article...
Putting more developers onto a late task/job leads to exponential increase of communication & coordination lines, but because we talk about human Devs, not SOL nodes running macro-bots, and human brains have certain limits, the big/fat team ends up with miscommunication and bad coordination. As a result there are more delays, worse quality and screwed up product. Development and debugging of a live, real-time virtual world simulation is one of the most complex endevours a dev team could take!
Performance of the team deteriorates almost exponentially with increasing the number of the team members working on the task!
Digging Trenches Scaling
This is a job that is several magnitudes easier & scalable - you draw a line on the field, you put N number of people doing very simple task - digging. The team/party doen not need too much coordination - one Sergeant could coordinate hundreds of diggers. The more diggers you put, the more trenches you could dig for the same amount of time.
Performance of the team increases almost linearly with increasing the number of the members working on the task!
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:14:00 -
[261]
I have a simple solution for you M'am/Sir - GO PLAY EVERQUEST AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY, SMILING, GETTING WET/HARD ETC...
Originally by: Amida Ta Each time CCP releases an "Expansion" I get less confident in CCP still showing any notable commitment to EVE.
The truth is there haven't been any Expansion for years now (since Apoc). The terms in the MMO-community are pretty well defined: There are patches, (free) content updates and expansions. One of the feature of EVE was that even the expansions were free. However if you look at what CCP nowaday markets as expansion then its clearly not an expansion. Its a free content update that you get with every MMO. The difference is that others give you this free content updates 4-6 times a year and CCP doesn't even manage to keep up to it's two-per-year ones.
And this incursion crap is only the end of a very long series. Look at what "features" are now supposed to come this year and then compare that to http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/updates/57 or http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/updates/58. Being an Eve-fan will make you cry. And both games are of similar age. Only Eve has a ton more subscribers, so CCP earns at least 5-10 times more money. But still EQ2 puts out free LUs that completely dwarf any of the latest expansions AND puts them out 4-6 times a year. And that although SOE is a pretty greedy company anyways.
Just sad.
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
LordElfa
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Posted - 2010.11.12 18:03:00 -
[262]
I'm not mad actually, huh. This means I get to complete my current training plan before the invasion which is a good thing.
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Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Haruspex Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.12 18:27:00 -
[263]
Great job CCP - I would rather have a finished and developed expansion that is late than an unfinished expansion on time. Holding to an arbitrary "2 expansions per year" at the expense of quality is a waste of time.
As for the whining that the mini patch consists of "only fixes" ignore it - we want a quiality polished product - if it means going without new content for a year it is worth it to have everything work with little lag.
tl:dr great job CCP
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Sister Fein
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Posted - 2010.11.12 18:33:00 -
[264]
So, in which release of incursion do we get the keyboard shortcuts? That's the most interesting feature of Incursion as far as I'm concerned...
/Sis
PS: Nicely done CCP, just as long as this isn't an excuse for lack of properly targeted effort ;)
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TeaDaze
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Posted - 2010.11.12 18:40:00 -
[265]
Originally by: tehSiner * Meta-item indicator icons
What does this mean?
You know how a T2 item in your hanger has a yellow triangle in the corner?
Well now faction, deadspace and office gear will have something similar (green, blue and purple - Eve now gets epic purple lewts )
TeaDaze.net Blog | CSM Database |
Lyssa T'Kran
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Posted - 2010.11.12 18:48:00 -
[266]
still waiting for information on when shader model 2 support is removed. Please inform!
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Nikas Minor
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Posted - 2010.11.12 18:49:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Nikas Minor on 12/11/2010 18:50:21 Edited by: Nikas Minor on 12/11/2010 18:49:49 First off: Fine, take the time to polish things up. Good. I would rather have fully working features than something that breaks the game.
That said: I cannot believe CCP has not managed expectations better than this. We are what, about a week or so away from when all this was *supposed* to be released? If things were so far behind, CCP must have known before now. I think if expectations had been managed much sooner, people would not be as upset with the delay, myself included. There are features in Incursion some have been waiting for for a *long* time, to yank the rug out like that is just mean.
Still, I'm looking forward to the final product, just please keep your customers more in the loop :)
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kwix
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Posted - 2010.11.12 19:18:00 -
[268]
with all this talk of the Sansha stuff...is there finally going to be a way to fix faction standing with Sansha other than running 750 lvl 1 courier missions?
Currently, you have a reasonable shot every 90 days to fix Guristas and Angels standings via the Epic Mission Arc, but there is no option like this for Sansha (or Serpentis) faction standings.
If you wanted a quick fix....I would imagine you could fix the problem by allowing to the existing epic arcs to derive faction standings increases without writing new content.
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ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.11.12 19:21:00 -
[269]
Quote: 80 new story line courier missions
i very much hope this was a joke for CCP's sake, and for mission runners everywhere O_O
apart from that, looking good ^_^
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.11.12 19:32:00 -
[270]
Looking back to the great Dominion debacle just under one year ago, I am thoroughly astonished and impressed that CCP's management team has matured enough to allow its employees to have the chance at doing excellent work. Truly, this is a sign of a much more professional project management decision making process. Good work! (*)
Regarding what is released in the mini-expansion, I suggestion including only that which has been rigorously tested and approved by CCP's in-house QA team.
Lastly, what type of hardware does CCP expect to run whatever additional Anti-Aliasing are proposed for release? Specifically, what are the recommended specifications for enabling AA at a 1600x1200 pixels and greater resolution?
(*) - I have been highly critical of CCP's project implementation methods and management in the past. This time around, I am truly pleased to see major organizational improvements.
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jumbojohnny
Caldari Over The Hill Gang Minning corp.
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Posted - 2010.11.12 20:20:00 -
[271]
Ok I gotta say is that I don't mind waiting for any of it so long as the noctis comes out in nov patch. I have waited for a few long years for that ship to come into existance.
Jumbojohnny your friendly neighborhood industrial powerhouse
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Mikail Assimov
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Posted - 2010.11.12 20:45:00 -
[272]
defineately want the additions polished.more than williing to wait for a good working addition.And hopefully a little love to the P.I. parts
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Voidghast
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Posted - 2010.11.12 21:48:00 -
[273]
I'll admit I was stoked for the November release, but I echo the sentiments of the community. An iron-clad, polished product over the rushed undead, Bondo and duct-tape Frankenstein, please!
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.11.12 22:50:00 -
[274]
Bravo, CCP! I was very much looking forward to some fun this November, but as many others have said, it's much better to get things polished than on a tight schedule. Glad CCP is recognizing that.
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
A certain Mr. Rodion Raskolnikov had a similar problem, so this forum is rather more fitting for this thread.
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zandayus
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Posted - 2010.11.12 22:56:00 -
[275]
being in the mining only part of eve these expansions means nothing.will never be interested in pvp/pve.can we get to the more realistic things like nav thrusters on all ships/warpin thru planets,mooons and stations/real time orbits around all moons and planets/more realistic earth type planets/terraforming desert planets using ice asteriods/player design mining ships and space stations.expansions change nothing but creativity does.well back to mining for me.never saw an ice I did not like.
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Chruker
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Posted - 2010.11.12 23:20:00 -
[276]
Edited by: Chruker on 12/11/2010 23:22:31 Why not call the january one for Incursion, after all it is named after what Sansha's will do by that time.
Then you can just make the nov/dec patch Tyrannis 1.3
Also what about the simplified PI interface? Will that be the december patch?
And finally the Noctis ship. Despite it havent been available on sisi yet, it is only using existing features so that should be possible for the november patch. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi
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Cor'len
The Silence of Thunder
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Posted - 2010.11.13 00:51:00 -
[277]
Well, I was originally going to reply "**** you CCP, stop being slowpokes. I like my halfassed expansions.".
Then I stopped by Sisi.
Goddamn it CCP, just throw caution to the wind and release this next summer or something when you can actually make it not suck so horribly badly. Seriously. -Cor There'd be a graphical sig here if I wasn't so lazy. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.13 02:15:00 -
[278]
I would like to remind people that the test server is TESTING, and is not the final product. ALSO I would like to remind people that what is on the test server is all 3 parts, not just part 1. So now you can see why they are releasing it in parts than just one huge thing.
now lets all be civil about this, wait what on yeah eve-o forums. Ok so what we should concentrate on now is, taking off parts 2 and 3 of incursion on the next server next week and just having only part 1 on it. no char creater, no incursion sites, just what is going to be in part 1.
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.13 05:03:00 -
[279]
CCP, you have restored a huge hunk of my faith in you. After all of the outcry for 'excellence over quantity' and over the 18-month crap, you have done an about-face and are doing exactly what we have asked for. You are providing fixes and updates and postponing an expansion until it is ready! That takes a lot of ballz. Kudos!
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Alexis Sapphire
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Posted - 2010.11.13 11:32:00 -
[280]
PLEX for remap?
Look, I know this is a tremendously controversial topic. I don't care about the pros or the cons regarding this. I'm just curious if this IS indeed coming in Incursion (I ask since it is such a controversial thing...) and if so, which of the three parts is it coming in?
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Gragnor
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.13 12:53:00 -
[281]
Good Blog and good thinking. Take the time; get it right but make sure you hit those deadlines you have created.
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Bloodpetal
The Black Company TBC
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Posted - 2010.11.13 14:37:00 -
[282]
Ok... I love you guys up in Iceland, but really...
Explain the first option on your "November Expansion" possibilities...
Quote: We have a few options for contained changes we can put out in a beefy mini-expansion in November that may include (but are not limited to): 80 new story line courier missions
80... New... STORYLINE... COURIER MISSIONS?!?!?!?!? lol
Like, for real, how many different ways can you complete a Courier mission? How many different things can you have us move?
80 of them? How about 20 missions? Like L4 combat missions? Or Exploration sites? Or... 80 Courier missions?
____________________________________________________
Bastet :: First Sergeant |
Eraggan Sadarr
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.13 15:30:00 -
[283]
Wait with release until the product is ready!!!
YES! That's the way to go. And i really like the fact that you intend to release some much requested balancing and features before the expansion, so any bugs here can be reported before Incursion. Congrats on growing up :P
Eve Market Scanner - Marketlog comparisons |
Damarn Price
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Posted - 2010.11.13 23:42:00 -
[284]
I am less than 8 months old in the game so far, and I still love it. I think all given the marvel of we all playing on a single server, we are doing very good not to experience more problems daily. CCP can be commended for that. I was here for the Tyrannis Expansion, and I had a few problems, but it may have been partially my doing. But since then I have had few problems. Thanks for choosing quality. But it would be great to have the Noctis, early rather than late. And I heard the noctis would not have any means of defense. Please give it a sensible drone bay or something,guns, lasers, popguns, slingshots or anything! Just don't make it another neutered industrial ship.
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Cresalle
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Posted - 2010.11.14 00:27:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Mynxee Edited by: Mynxee on 11/11/2010 16:19:33 I applaud CCP for choosing to focus on Excellence rather than publish stuff that isn't ready for prime time. CSM has advocated repeatedly that players will accept delays cheerfully if it means a better product. I'm sure it wasn't easy for CCP to "break form" so to speak, but this is a very commendable step in the right direction.
The list of potential changes in the November release is nice. Given what I saw on SiSi related to the new character creator, a delay that (one hopes) promises a more user-friendly, content-rich experience there would be most welcome. If that also includes CCP taking into consideration more feedback from players to refine the Sansha Incursions, even better.
Based on discussions we had with CCP on the matter, I would have liked to see this announcement come out sooner but better late than never.
Every time there's an issue I give a rat's bum about Mynxee seems to be the one saying what I'm thinking. I'm voting for you from now on, Minmatar girl.
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Agondray
Gallente Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
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Posted - 2010.11.14 04:51:00 -
[286]
could we atleast get in the PI update this month that was promised in the expansion, thats what i was hoping for so i can do more with my planets and not click some 120 times per planet for 6 planets
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.14 11:19:00 -
[287]
80 ne courier missions was easy for the slimmed down content team to put together and remember ccp doesnt do content variance to well its very defined and narrow and unoriginal i would have expected 30 to be made a song and dance 80 is really pushing their imaginations
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Angst IronShard
Minmatar Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere
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Posted - 2010.11.14 14:25:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Angst IronShard on 14/11/2010 14:25:12 and what"s about the ability to refit T3 subs on POS ?
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny
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Posted - 2010.11.14 22:53:00 -
[289]
Originally by: HeliosGal 80 ne courier missions was easy for the slimmed down content team to put together and remember ccp doesnt do content variance to well its very defined and narrow and unoriginal i would have expected 30 to be made a song and dance 80 is really pushing their imaginations
Can you re-post that with some commas and periods thrown in there?
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Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.15 12:31:00 -
[290]
Just hope those mobs have the ability to change target and multitask has sleepers in C4-5 Wh.
Wellcomme ladies and gentlemen
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2010.11.15 13:08:00 -
[291]
At what stage will the remapping-for-PLEX-feature be introduced?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:12:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood At what stage will the remapping-for-PLEX-feature be introduced?
Hopefully never.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Alexis Sapphire
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:29:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Floydd Heywood At what stage will the remapping-for-PLEX-feature be introduced?
Hopefully never.
And that's a completely valid opinion. I asked the same question above. I'm not looking to debate the issue amongst those against, and the few in favor of this, but can we get a CCP answer on this one? I'm sure people on both sides are curious about this.
For instance, has the player reaction (seemingly a majority view this dimly...) caused CCP to rethink this at all? Or is this full steam ahead and we'll see it in part 1, 2, or 3?
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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:38:00 -
[294]
Meta numbers eh, are we going to be able to "sort" be meta number in our hanger? |
Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2010.11.16 08:39:00 -
[295]
If CCP were to reverse their plans on the remapping-for-PLEX-feature, they would completely ruin my skill plans for the next year, because I used my normal remapping with the new feature in mind. I'm aware that most forum warriors would just love that, but CCP shouldn't. I know I'm absolutely not the only one who has used his remapping assuming that the next one will not be 12 months away.
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Engalo
Gallente AlphaCore
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Posted - 2010.11.16 09:37:00 -
[296]
I must say that I am disappointed over what I read here. I was really looking forward to an expansion that could make me come back and play. For the last 8 months I just been paying and skill training, and thatÆs it. Luckily IÆm one of those WOW dumbasses so I at least have something to look forward to. A really shame though that I still have to pay and no play. But I if itÆs so bad, why donÆt just wait with the whole thing? And, will the January half take the spring/summer expansionÆs place?
AlphaCore corporation |
Yaaman
Duolith Systems Beyond-Control
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Posted - 2010.11.16 10:07:00 -
[297]
Wow, lots of emotions.
I agree with CSM and prefer quality over speed anyday (that why I fly Gallente)
But I'd like a CCP answer on how the prolonged delivery of the winter expansion will affect the spring/summer expansion! Delayed? Cancelled?
And for the love of Jove, make a new icon for BPOs or BPCs so I can tell them apart. THAT can't be a major development issue, now can it? _________________________________________ If anyting is worth doing, it's worth getting someone else to do it for you. |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.16 11:07:00 -
[298]
well by delaying incursions it would seem to me that this is also indicating that dust might be behind schedule. CCP dont want to leave the game to slowly deveoped or rapid games going ahead elsewhere will suck hte player base out
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Cid SilverWing
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Posted - 2010.11.16 11:46:00 -
[299]
So when will we have an actual release date for the expansion?
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Inanna NiKunni
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Posted - 2010.11.16 19:14:00 -
[300]
i approve this change in strategy - small incremental changes, based on user feedback, you are doing it right CCP.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.17 06:14:00 -
[301]
let em delay it more they are putting all their limited resources into something useless
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Engalo
Gallente AlphaCore
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Posted - 2010.11.17 12:18:00 -
[302]
Originally by: HeliosGal let em delay it more they are putting all their limited resources into something useless
I agree. Scrap the whole winter expansion and give us a Kick ass Spring expansion instead.
AlphaCore corporation |
Dalilus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 17:14:00 -
[303]
How about a lvl 4, quality 18 Federation Navy agent in HIGH SEC? How about fixing the Caldari Navy quality 18 agent in Motsu that gives out rewards like a quality 10 agent? How about when running missions in Motsu or its surrounding systems the dungeons be mostly 11au from the nearest station, gate, planet? How about turning back the clock on lvl 4 missions and returning to the good old days by letting Blood Raiders neut/nos like they used to, let rogue drones have their stasis and nos towers back, let all npc factions re-deploy their 1.5 million isk bounty bs again, and letting Angel Cartel members return to wreck havoc on unsuspecting mission runners by webbing/scrambling them? Now that lowsec and null sec residents have had their ships and npcs boosted how about showing some love for the almost 50% of playes that reside in high sec and dont have any plans on moving anywhere else? 80 storyline courier missions? Is that the best you can come up with? Courier missions? Whomever came up with that idea should be sent to Sansha for a mind wipe and immediate use as cannon fodder.
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bcs1
Minmatar Circus Peni Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.17 17:34:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Arthur Pewty Happy to wait for a good product, but I would also like to know the fate of the Noctis. Is this non-combat ship hoped to be in the Precursor, 2nd step (Prep work) or 3rd (Character & Sansha)?
I'm hoping that they do it in the first release, after all, a new ship is nothing, just look at the primae's release.... aside from the BPO and book (which shouldn't be any issue at all) the ship should be next.. otherwise my corpies and I have put a ton of work and saving into nothing more than a huge delay and waste of time.
o/ My Dad and my Son are my heroes, one taught me how to make him proud, and one makes me proud on a daily basis. |
bcs1
Minmatar Circus Peni Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.17 17:38:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Dalilus Edited by: Dalilus on 17/11/2010 17:28:29 How about a lvl 4, quality 18 Federation Navy agent in HIGH SEC? How about fixing the Caldari Navy quality 18 agent in Motsu that gives out rewards like a quality 10 agent? How about when running missions in Motsu or its surrounding systems the dungeons be mostly 11au from the nearest station, gate, planet? How about turning back the clock on lvl 4 missions and returning to the good old days by letting Blood Raiders neut/nos like they used to, let rogue drones have their stasis and nos towers back, let all npc factions re-deploy their 1.5 million isk bounty bs again, and letting Angel Cartel members return to wreck havoc on unsuspecting mission runners by webbing/scrambling them? How about having players ask the agent that gave them a mission for help if they get in trouble? Said agent could send other mission runners in good standings to help, for a piece of the rewards of course.
Now that lowsec and null sec residents have had their ships, asteroid belts and npcs boosted how about showing some love for the almost 50% of playes that reside in high sec and dont have any plans on moving anywhere else? 80 storyline courier missions? Is that the best you can come up with? Courier missions? Whomever came up with that idea should be sent to Sansha for a mind wipe and immediate use as cannon fodder. I guess no one thought to add some spice to lvl 4 missions, or missions in general, by including hacking and analyzing the obvious sites present in most missions, or a bit of gas harvesting on the obvious gas clouds or sending the unwary to only God knows where when they approach too closely a spatial anomaly or just dropping an extra goodie for the stubborn that prod, probe, shoot, nudge, scan, salvage, tractor, analyze, hack, circle endlessly and ultimately yell at relics of some old bygone time.
*stands and gives a round of applause..... My Dad and my Son are my heroes, one taught me how to make him proud, and one makes me proud on a daily basis. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.17 21:29:00 -
[306]
I applaud this. I'd rather see the new content delayed until it's rock-solid and polished (ie: done), but in the meantime, we'll still be getting lots of improvements that we've been waiting years for (antialiasing(\o/), better keyboard shortcuts(\o/ \o/ \o/), moveable camera center, etc).
Hell, I'd probably call it the best expansion ever if it was just anti-aliasing and the new keyboard shortcut system. I think the new shortcuts will add to my enjoyment of EVE more than any other single change thus far. -----SIGNATURE-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.17 21:44:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Dalilus How about a lvl 4, quality 18 Federation Navy agent in HIGH SEC? How about fixing the Caldari Navy quality 18 agent in Motsu that gives out rewards like a quality 10 agent?
/agree
The reward difference those two agents it's absolutly insane. That doesn't means that CCP must nerf Caldari agent, only that Gallente one must be fixed at the same lvl of reward LP/ISK.
Hope some lvl5 to in high sec or ok for low sec but in dead areas that you can't probe. Pirates with 2gr of brains already have occasions to blow PVE FIT ships when they get in to those systems.
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Thathanka
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Posted - 2010.11.17 23:57:00 -
[308]
As your average player, my experience of the expansion is this:
Expansion Winter 2010 - Rockets are getting balanced Expansion Spring 2011 - There will be an awesome new character creator
Nothing else is really very interesting, and to call this an expansion is pretty damn lame. I love CCP and appreciate all their hard work but is this really all they could think to focus on? Essentially, there is no reason for anyone who has let their account lapse to reactivate it. Courier missions? A Sansha invasion? Not very interesting, is it?
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project
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Posted - 2010.11.18 02:56:00 -
[309]
Edited by: Astenion on 18/11/2010 02:57:14
Originally by: Dalilus Edited by: Dalilus on 17/11/2010 17:48:19 Edited by: Dalilus on 17/11/2010 17:28:29 How about a lvl 4, quality 18 Federation Navy agent in HIGH SEC?
Auvergne, a single jump from Dodixie, in 0.9 space at the Fed Intel station there's a lvl 4 +18 Intelligence Agent whose storyline missions send you to speak to the lvl 4 Fed Navy agent in Dodixie. Every mission is a kill mission.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.11.18 03:41:00 -
[310]
Very happy to hear that quality > speed. Props. ______________________________
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Shawshanke
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Posted - 2010.11.18 03:55:00 -
[311]
80 new story line courier missions....
Either you guys are joking or you really do sit around in meetings saying "sounds like these ideas will be fun for the players but how can we make this game more annoying for them?"
The only thing that would be better than this would be "we found 80 new ways to add load screens/cool downs".
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Snaketzu
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Posted - 2010.11.18 04:27:00 -
[312]
I applaud the idea of delivering content when it is ready, as opposed to the "fix it later" attitude.
On the other hand, this should not be accepted as gloss over the fact that the delivery date that was discussed merely weeks ago has obviously been missed. It was said CCP got tons of "great" feedback from Sisi, it must not have been very good or that content wouldn't have needed 60 days of reworking. As was mentioned earlier, the things that were mentioned for Nov 30 are no more than an overgrown patch, some icon and database changes. 80 new courier missions is loltastic if that's to be considered new content. No mention of the Noctis or the PI fixes. I assume those are some of the things that Santa is bringing.
So the message I get is that the new content was a disaster and needs major reworking and the keyboard shortcut changes simply aren't ready, in the meantime I'll get thrown a few bones every few weeks or so. From a gaming perspective, not having it until it's right is a no-brainer. From a customer perspective, however, don't make promises and then don't deliver.
Not delivering until it's ready = good. Ready and on time = better.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2010.11.18 19:52:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Dalilus Edited by: Dalilus on 17/11/2010 17:48:19 Edited by: Dalilus on 17/11/2010 17:28:29 How about a lvl 4, quality 18 Federation Navy agent in HIGH SEC? How about fixing the Caldari Navy quality 18 agent in Motsu that gives out rewards like a quality 10 agent? How about when running missions in Motsu or its surrounding systems the dungeons be mostly 11au from the nearest station, gate, planet? How about turning back the clock on lvl 4 missions and returning to the good old days by letting Blood Raiders neut/nos like they used to, let rogue drones have their stasis and nos towers back, let all npc factions re-deploy their 1.5 million isk bounty bs again, and letting Angel Cartel members return to wreck havoc on unsuspecting mission runners by webbing/scrambling them? How about having players ask the agent that gave them a mission for help if they get in trouble? Said agent could send other mission runners in good standings to help, for a piece of the rewards of course.
Now that lowsec and null sec residents have had their ships, asteroid belts and npcs boosted how about showing some love for the almost 50% of playes that reside in high sec and dont have any plans on moving anywhere else? 80 storyline courier missions? Is that the best you can come up with? Courier missions? Whomever came up with that idea should be sent to Sansha for a mind wipe and immediate use as cannon fodder. I guess no one thought to add some spice to lvl 4 missions, or missions in general, by including hacking and analyzing the obvious sites present in most missions, or a bit of gas harvesting on the obvious gas clouds or sending the unwary to only God knows where when they approach too closely a spatial anomaly or just dropping an extra goodie for the stubborn that prod, probe, shoot, nudge, scan, salvage, tractor, analyze, hack, circle endlessly and ultimately yell at relics of some old bygone time.
Maybe as often as a Domination or Dread Gurista officers spawns in a lvl 4 mish something completely out of the ordinary happens, instead of spending hours killing 200 npcs to earn 14 million isk, a 14 million isk officer shows up, instead of only spawning veldspar and other common roids return to the days when juicy exotic roids infrequently spawned, and return some lvl 5 agents back to high sec. Carebears with over 40 million skill points eventually get bored of just aggroing the whole room and then sitting down to watch a movie while their drones clean their clocks.
Here here, well said sir!!!
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zandayus
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Posted - 2010.11.19 01:50:00 -
[314]
so it is going to take 3 months to put into place one minor expansion known as Incursion.with Incarna walking on station will not be all that it can be when released 2012.one major expansion a year is a reality that has to be from now on.no PR can deter reality.but then blessed are they who expect nothing.for they shall not be disappionted........
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Shurikane
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Posted - 2010.11.19 12:02:00 -
[315]
Totally off-topic question.
Seeing as I saw mostly standard hairdoes in the videos, are there any plans to include headwear and/or wilder hairstyles? The blown-back 'fireball' one comes to mind for obvious reasons. |
The Redman
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Posted - 2010.11.19 21:26:00 -
[316]
Edited by: The Redman on 19/11/2010 21:32:31 Edited by: The Redman on 19/11/2010 21:30:33 Glad CCP is looking closer at quality releases and fixes but from someone that has played a few years now I am still getting bored with the game. Having trouble finding fun things to do in game and now I don't see anything happening in the new releases worth jumping back in for till maybe January...
So happy for CCP and those still addicted to EVE, but sounds like I better keep the level 5 skills lined up and check back in January...
BTW, 1 expansion a year really works best for those players that are currently addicted and play eve every spare minute they have. For those who are slowly losing interest, 1 expansion per year would probably cause many accounts to go inactive and get canceled.
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Lawan Jovana
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Posted - 2010.11.20 00:01:00 -
[317]
Quote: Now that lowsec and null sec residents have had their ships, asteroid belts and npcs boosted how about showing some love for the almost 50% of playes that reside in high sec and dont have any plans on moving anywhere else? 80 storyline courier missions? Is that the best you can come up with? Courier missions? Whomever came up with that idea should be sent to Sansha for a mind wipe and immediate use as cannon fodder. I guess no one thought to add some spice to lvl 4 missions, or missions in general, by including hacking and analyzing the obvious sites present in most missions, or a bit of gas harvesting on the obvious gas clouds or sending the unwary to only God knows where when they approach too closely a spatial anomaly or just dropping an extra goodie for the stubborn that prod, probe, shoot, nudge, scan, salvage, tractor, analyze, hack, circle endlessly and ultimately yell at relics of some old bygone time.
This!
Plus how about adding some reward for WH exploration for deep space exploration - extinct civilization relics or similar? Maybe via a specialised scan on P.I. ?
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Alternate AFK
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Posted - 2010.11.20 05:10:00 -
[318]
Edited by: Alternate AFK on 20/11/2010 05:10:58
Quote: CCP Zulu We have a few options for contained changes we can put out in a beefy mini-expansion in November that may include (but are not limited to):
* 80 new story line courier missions * Rocket balancing * Tech 2 ammo balancing * Adding faction ships to the market * Fighter bomber missile visual effects changes * Anti-aliasing support * Window resizing, camera offset * Meta-item indicator icons * UI optimization to contract delivery filtering * Cargo can now be dragged to hangar by dropping on Neocom * Toggling probes in overview * POS gunners now receive notifications about control towers under attack * Sorting deliveries according to distance in jumps or regional locations * Unique icons for Microwarpdrives and Afterburners
I don't see the new salvaging ship or training book in that list... No chance of early release of the ship?
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Nicole Louise
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Posted - 2010.11.20 07:07:00 -
[319]
NOCTIS??
I like the decision to wait as well. Some great points posted here though.
I agree with the Mission updates, when will there be some new missions?
When is the NOCTIS coming?
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UNKNOWN DUDE
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Posted - 2010.11.20 14:00:00 -
[320]
Who cares about new content? I want my stack of snowballs NOW!!
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Arduinol
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Posted - 2010.11.21 04:56:00 -
[321]
Mmmm.. Snowballs!
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Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.21 13:58:00 -
[322]
Beter give me "Tomatoe louncher" anti-scam weapon.
"Anti Scam Tomatoes Louncher"
1st effect on target - can't dock for 30min -if you're already docked the owner of the stations throws you out on your pod.
2nd effect on target - affected ship "stincks", mobs warp out on your arrival and insult you.
3rd effet on target - you can't jump on gates, concord kicks you out at 0.4
*Warning* -If you lounch "tomatoes" on someone else than the scamer you'll get all side effects immediatly.
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Orephia
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Posted - 2010.11.21 14:57:00 -
[323]
Originally by: CCP Zulu 80 new story line courier missions
All in lowsec, amirite?
After grinding thru 16 lvl 4s, then getting the 40,000m3 courier storyline 5 jumps thru lowsec into a faction warfare system with 18 podkills in the last hour, all any pilot can imagine is how awesome it would be if only there were 80 more chances to decline the standings loss.
The wiki Missions_guide shows Internal Security agents giving 98.37% kill & 1.51% courier, yet an Internal Security storyline agent will give ~ 90% courier storylines.
Lowseks aside, more encounter storylines are needed, not couriers. Courier missions are for bots anyway. What are you thinking/drinking??
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.11.21 15:12:00 -
[324]
Well, I like this new approach of CCP having a Commitment to Excellence.
I hope this next expansion is well worth the wait and doesn't end up being a Bomb.
By the way CCP, I think you should take a look at this new Forum Tool.
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Lion Around
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Posted - 2010.11.21 18:58:00 -
[325]
Did I read that right? EIGHTY new COURIER missions? Jesus H. Christ. That is like the ultimate INSULT to players who like mission running. I HATE COURIER MISSIONS. This is NOT an improvement, and I will not hide my complete, utter, ANNOYANCE and displeasure to include MORE of the same annoying courier missions that do NOTHING but waste time.
CCP, you suck. Adding more annoying missions just to **** off your player base is UNACCEPTABLE. I absolutely, positively, DESPISE the CCP team responsible for the decisions to add 80 freaking courier missions. Seriously? CCP SUCKS.
I was looking forward to the Incursion expansion, but if this is ALL I have to look forward to as a person who lives in High Security systems, I'm already considering quitting Eve.
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LostChylde
Minmatar Selectus Pravus Lupus Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.11.22 00:46:00 -
[326]
Quote: I was looking forward to the Incursion expansion, but if this is ALL I have to look forward to as a person who lives in High Security systems, I'm already considering quitting Eve.
Well, can i have your stuff?......seriously why are you doing mission in high sec??? go out and have some fun. 2004.08.16 01:50:10combatSansha's Minion strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 5.4 damage.
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Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
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Posted - 2010.11.22 12:12:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Sixtina KL on 22/11/2010 12:11:54
Originally by: Lion Around CCP, you suck. Adding more annoying missions just to **** off your player base is UNACCEPTABLE. I absolutely, positively, DESPISE the CCP team responsible for the decisions to add 80 freaking courier missions. Seriously? CCP SUCKS.
Don't let the door hit the 12-accounts-you-have-since-the-closed-alpha-release on your way out. __________________________________
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Lion Around
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Posted - 2010.11.22 19:15:00 -
[328]
Quote: Well, can i have your stuff?......seriously why are you doing mission in high sec??? go out and have some fun.
I was denied entry to a number of pvp corps because of my hearing impairment. The 0.0 alliance I joined accused me being a spy simply because they didn't believe that I AM deaf. Apparently, claiming one is deaf is common spy tactic. So far from what I've seen, there are NO INCENTIVES to move out of high sec. No one will trust a deaf man in a fleet with anything bigger than a frigate. The one ******* who claimed he trains "carebears into killers" told me "Stick to mining. That's all your good for." Exact quote, no exaggeration. So you know what? Screw you. I'll play the game how I want.
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Eridal
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Posted - 2010.11.23 14:20:00 -
[329]
Originally by: The Redman Last point: Why for the love of all that is holy can CCP not set up buttons to launch, attack, orbit & recall drones???
All of those exist just not set by default with the exception of launch drones I use them all the time. Next time actually look at the shortcuts before saying they don't exist :P
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.23 14:59:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Lion Around
Quote: Well, can i have your stuff?......seriously why are you doing mission in high sec??? go out and have some fun.
I was denied entry to a number of pvp corps because of my hearing impairment. The 0.0 alliance I joined accused me being a spy simply because they didn't believe that I AM deaf. Apparently, claiming one is deaf is common spy tactic. So far from what I've seen, there are NO INCENTIVES to move out of high sec. No one will trust a deaf man in a fleet with anything bigger than a frigate. The one ******* who claimed he trains "carebears into killers" told me "Stick to mining. That's all your good for." Exact quote, no exaggeration. So you know what? Screw you. I'll play the game how I want.
I haven't spoken on comms since, hmmm, early 2008. No disability, I just dont like to.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Jane Griffin
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Posted - 2010.11.24 00:07:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Eridal
Originally by: The Redman Last point: Why for the love of all that is holy can CCP not set up buttons to launch, attack, orbit & recall drones???
All of those exist just not set by default with the exception of launch drones I use them all the time. Next time actually look at the shortcuts before saying they don't exist :P
The button doesnt go active when you select a group, rather you have to SHIFT SELECT the drones you want to perform the action to, making the button actually slower than right clicking a group of drones and launching from menu...
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Cebraio
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Posted - 2010.11.25 23:24:00 -
[332]
CCP, I love you! - again! You once more listen to the people! _________________________ Vote NO on Micro-Transactions |
Harry Braff
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Posted - 2010.11.26 01:52:00 -
[333]
Doing it right the first time is job security. Do what you can right, then go to the next problem.
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islador
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Posted - 2010.11.26 02:52:00 -
[334]
I support!! Wheres the thumbs up button? Seriously though, I see no issue with you guys pushing back deployments as long as it works better for it. Hell, I'd prefer it!
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Ten Bulls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.26 05:45:00 -
[335]
So is the first part of the expansion December 14th now ?
In the dev blog it says Nov 30th, was it anounced that the dates changed ?
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Manchu Farmer
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Posted - 2010.11.26 17:41:00 -
[336]
Alot of the new patch items are long over due, for example new mission, but what a waste of time comeing up with a salvgeing ship. Great with pass patch allowing us to choose to blue wrecks, but this new ships give more reason for people to jump into others missions and ninjia salvge off others and of course not get agression from person they "stealing" the hard work of killing enemy to get the wreck. Yes a long argueement that slavgeing others wrecks are not stealing but if some doing a mission and they a person jumps in mission, not in fleet, comeing in behind slavgeing all the wrecks it takes away from the other players wallet. These mission jumppers are the ones wanted a better salvgeing ship just for this reason. I understand it will be good for Wormhole, but there are alot more others who rather leech off others and laugh cuse the other person can't fire on them unless want GGC. Oh well another ship to gank then. |
Sahmul
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:30:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Manchu Farmer Alot of the new patch items are long over due, for example new mission, but what a waste of time comeing up with a salvgeing ship. Great with pass patch allowing us to choose to blue wrecks, but this new ships give more reason for people to jump into others missions and ninjia salvge off others and of course not get agression from person they "stealing" the hard work of killing enemy to get the wreck. Yes a long argueement that slavgeing others wrecks are not stealing but if some doing a mission and they a person jumps in mission, not in fleet, comeing in behind slavgeing all the wrecks it takes away from the other players wallet. These mission jumppers are the ones wanted a better salvgeing ship just for this reason. I understand it will be good for Wormhole, but there are alot more others who rather leech off others and laugh cuse the other person can't fire on them unless want GGC. Oh well another ship to gank then.
I wouldn't worry about it too much mate. A professional Ninja Salvager will continue to use a fast, cheap ship to Ninja in. Simply because the Noctis is slow, and many of its bonuses relate to Tractors which a Ninja Salvager cannot use.
The new ship will be most used by those who now use destroyers as Salvage platforms, that is, people who have an alt, corpmate salvaging as they go, or those who BM the wreck fields and come back later.
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Sibyl Guerrilla
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:23:00 -
[338]
The learning skills being removed will be a change to get used to. The patches sound like decent improvements for PvE players, and the game overall.
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:12:00 -
[339]
So no PI changes in this part of the patch. Damn...I curse you to death by a thousand goldfish nibbles, CCP. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Gloryquest
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Posted - 2010.11.30 00:52:00 -
[340]
i wonder will we be able to password lock our ships??hmm only santa knows lol
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Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:24:00 -
[341]
Edited by: Joss56 on 30/11/2010 03:25:06
Originally by: Sahmul I wouldn't worry about it too much mate. A professional Ninja Salvager will continue to use a fast, cheap ship to Ninja in
Tank your mobs at the point of end bubble warp, when your frindly ninja apears then warp out, when you get in again you'll find some salvagers and sometimes Sisters expanded probe lounchers to sell
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Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:06:00 -
[342]
Quote: Graphics
* The EVE client is now resizable in Windowed mode, allowing the players to stretch their client over several monitors. Now EVE Online is much more beautiful in ultra-widescreen resolutions.
* A new option, ôHorizontal offsetö has been added to the settings menu. It allows the player to have all menus on one monitor and focus on his ship in another monitor.
YAY.. was talking about that month ago.. now you deploy it :D Best Feature in this patch!!!
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Bumbel
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:48:00 -
[343]
Sounds like a bugfix with some additions. Would have been better to have an eye at problems lasting for years. Still missing better alliance tools ingame.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:56:00 -
[344]
Just a quick note to all the haters;
When the Incursion features were up on Sisi (not checked if they were back up), they were indeed very playable, with just some missing icons. In fact, we even had a 20+ strong fleet going into one of the sites and mess about without any lag (even with my settings pumped up and default brackets) or complications. I realise that this doesn't equate to a working product on the whole, but don't make the mistake of thinking it wasn't functional or in a state capable of being deployed. (CCP could have CTA'd it and rushed it to a state of release, don't under estimate the power of viking metal.)
CCP will still have bugs on release, as it's impossible to fully simulate tranquility, speshly when not enough people actually get onto sisi for testing. What should come out of this delay however is the removal of any critical bugs, and we should get patches for more minor things. Considering this isn't costing me a dime, a delay really isn't going to ruin my x-mas. In fact, it's the smaller errors that drive me more irate than big things, as they are typically harder to bypass. (PI Doesn't work? Don't do it. Your UI keeps bugging out on you? FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU)
Other than that, I approve this decision, even though I love new shiny things just as much if not more than CCP does.
Haters gunna hate though. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Pacifist1
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Posted - 2010.12.10 17:44:00 -
[345]
At me a question! When will enter new planetary interaction? Us have teased and have forgotten about it? Or again empty promises? I apologize for bad English)
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bigpaxi
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Posted - 2010.12.10 18:40:00 -
[346]
When do we get the PI help. Thought you were working on something to give us all a 14 day plan of some sort. Would be nice to have some help on the PI soon.
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Katarin Savage
Gallente azinko
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Posted - 2010.12.10 22:27:00 -
[347]
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zulu newest blog provides an update on the EVE Online: Incursion expansion.
I just tried to login to sisi and after an hour of blind deadends I finally fix the damn launcher and now the sisilauncher dont work and then I finally repair the sodding thing and now sisi points to the main tranq server from my sisi folder!!! wtf??
I wish I could waste my time to write ourt abug report but you have to know what you're talking about with them things and I dont have a clue what happens under the bonnet of eve, I just wanna be a spaceship pilot not scotty the miracle worker!!!
Dunno what ccp devs have been upto but sisi launching is most defo borkked and all I wanna do is design my avatar, fly that new freeby ship and perhaps make some loyalty points from killing sansha pirtates but whatever's changed between here and yesterday, fix it pls, koz well, I paid an annual subs to get here and you didnt, so there!!! katarin savage ceo, azinko corp building a better future |
Samulus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.10 22:31:00 -
[348]
I would like to be reimbursed (at current market value) for those Skill Books I had to buy first place to train for those learning skills.
Sam Sam |
JiJiCle
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.10 23:11:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Pacifist1 At me a question! When will enter new planetary interaction? Us have teased and have forgotten about it? Or again empty promises?
Originally by: bigpaxi When do we get the PI help. Thought you were working on something to give us all a 14 day plan of some sort. Would be nice to have some help on the PI soon.
same question here. PI improved will come on December () or in January ? ()
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Cevius
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Posted - 2010.12.12 18:16:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Samulus I would like to be reimbursed (at current market value) for those Skill Books I had to buy first place to train for those learning skills.
Sam
I totally agree with Sam - furthermore I am getting tired of CCP continally moving the goalposts. I would also like to be reimbursed fully for all the foresight, tenacity and downright boring time it took me to train all learning skills to max (whilst resisting the temptation to train others) - which I thought (mistakenly now)would give me an edge over all those who couldn't be bothered. This game is meant to be hard, it is meant to be one where you use your brain and exercise some forethough, it is meant to be one where your future sucess depends on the forward planning and effort you were prepared to put in to it in the first place. If you don't have the patience to put that in then go play WOW or heaven forbid STO, then see how rewarding an experience they are. So forget new character creation nonsense - ("if it aint broke don't fixit") and all this other superflous eye candy garbage like walking in stations, fix the many bugs, disconnects and lag that still exists, do something with the damn awful sound fx system (long overdue) AND STOP MOVING THE DAMN GOAL POSTS EVERY FEW MONTHS !!!
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.12 21:39:00 -
[351]
Adapt or die. Stuff changes all the time. It's not only inevitable, it's also necessary.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Juvac
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Posted - 2010.12.13 14:20:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Malcanis Adapt or die. Stuff changes all the time. It's not only inevitable, it's also necessary.
And it is precisely that sort of tired old excuse and cliche that still leaves us with so many unaddressed bugs, broken content, lag and disconnect problems all in the name of being stylish and moving on. I'm all for future content change - albeit worthwhile and not just for aesthetic reasons; but not at the expense of long term paying customers in order to make things easier for new players, many of whom will either be around for no longer, and/or have no more impact on the game than a fart in a Typhoon.
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Desire Dominion
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Posted - 2010.12.13 14:44:00 -
[353]
Quote: Our UI designers and programmers were in holiday mood, and overhauled the Neural Remap window, making it much more intuitive. Why not check it out and see if any other gifts await you there!
Could it be a free Neural Remap?
Stupid CCP! Don't listen to them whiners ;)
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Dame'un Beso
Minmatar Osculum Nex
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Posted - 2010.12.13 19:30:00 -
[354]
Got a question regarding the Character Design Generator.
Will we yet again be limited to the four races ?
Would be cool to actually make something less clean, like a Blood Raider, or a Sansha lookalike ?
had a small look at the designer on SiSi, and was dissapointed that the tatooing was diminished quite a lot.
Beso.. |
Sed Man
Gallente Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.12.14 00:22:00 -
[355]
I've been quite underwhelmed by the updates so far.
GUI updates / changes, just a matter of course, shouldnt be a 'feature' of an update. its a fix not a new feature or improvment. ex. the MWD icon, gee'z that was hard to do!
Adding courier missions, big whoop, why didnt you make them over the past years.
Updating the attribute gui, another big whoop, something you go into once a year...
Balance changes, gees, that was hard, change a few variables.
Update the graphics on a few things, another big whoop, its cosmetic.
Incursion, a nice addition, but not a hige effort on CCP's part. recycling of the PI front end code, and a bunch of missions written.
About the only thing I've seen thats worth the whoop is AI updates. So tired of static missions that only require a little light reading and then follow the bouncing ball.
If Incursion is anything like on the test server, it will just be another option that solo pilots cant take advantage of.
Anyhow... really just annoyed that the relase was delayed...
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.14 04:33:00 -
[356]
The extra day doesn't bug me (and it wouldn't even if it didn't benefit me as my alts aren't quite to 1.6M yet.)
The incessant caving to whiners bugs me. This free remap is just the latest abominable decision by CCP.
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Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.14 14:44:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 14/12/2010 14:46:25 From update feature list:
- Repeating modules will no longer get into a ôstuckö state, where they cannot be switched off.
- Improvements to module activation and reload responsiveness have been made.
Lies. Modules still get stuck. It's just a different stuck.
EDIT: Also, in systems with lots of dudes fighting (aka lag) yellow boxes and red boxes aren't showing up on overview....making it very hard to tell when being shotted.
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Dunkaskol
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Posted - 2010.12.14 20:11:00 -
[358]
Our patience on an outcome, and a problem with scanning on planets has learned planetology in 4 and advanced Planetology in 1, there are more accurate stains, but extraction of minerals on them is poorer. Good addition PI, but roofing felts of a hand at you haven't reached, roofing felts don't want to finish, is insulting. And on a question on that when to appear updating on PI I and hasn't received
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Shalkto
Gallente Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2010.12.14 20:47:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Dunkaskol Our patience on an outcome, and a problem with scanning on planets has learned planetology in 4 and advanced Planetology in 1, there are more accurate stains, but extraction of minerals on them is poorer. Good addition PI, but roofing felts of a hand at you haven't reached, roofing felts don't want to finish, is insulting. And on a question on that when to appear updating on PI I and hasn't received
realize english may not be your first language but i didn't understand ANY of that.
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Juvac
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Posted - 2010.12.14 23:38:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Dunkaskol Our patience on an outcome, and a problem with scanning on planets has learned planetology in 4 and advanced Planetology in 1, there are more accurate stains, but extraction of minerals on them is poorer. Good addition PI, but roofing felts of a hand at you haven't reached, roofing felts don't want to finish, is insulting. And on a question on that when to appear updating on PI I and hasn't received
Hi Dunkaskol, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you man - You've given me the best laugh I've had in ages - I damn near bust a gut. Seriously man - no offense, really no offense - it's just those on-line interpreters - don't use em, seriously they don't work.
But I actually do sympathise with your point, coz I've had similar problems to you, not only can I no longer extract roofing felt, but now my Bitumen plant and Cement mixer have now packed in since I last ran a deep fat fryer scan !!! |
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LinkinRaz
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:46:00 -
[361]
Как хорошо что наконецто выпустили Incursion ))
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Cpt SpyOnYou
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Posted - 2010.12.15 13:18:00 -
[362]
First I would like to say that I am glad you removed the learning skills. You have also added much needed fixes. With that said I am not for moving forward when things still need to be fixed. Sonii(sp) played that game with us never fixing older bugs. I am Caldari an have been playing since 2003, I WANT LAUNCHER GRAPHICS RETURNED, you all get gun/turret graphics. So why have you not fixed this yet, and do not say it affects rate of fire or something because if that is the case the you should just add bonus to Caldari ships for rate of fire. Do something please ok Nuff said.
PS I also think eve map gives out way to much Intell, maybe if you have Sov. in that area you should be able to get that information.
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Pacifist1
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:04:00 -
[363]
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:59:00 -
[364]
Originally by: wizard87
Originally by: Gil Danastre I think a good yearly release schedule going forward would look something like this;
- 1 substantial expansion a year, released fall/winter.
- During the intervening months, release regular bug/balance patches. No more waiting 6 months for a major imbalance to get "looked at"
- Toss in small content patches throughout. Got a new model for X ship done? Toss it in!
I think ultimately this underscores that the 2 expansions a year thing is starting to hit it's limit. There's so much to EVE now just adding a little thing can break dozens of others. Plus, I think they're starting to run out of content ideas to put in there, hence the steadily decreasing "Wow" factor of all content updates. I mean, just going off of Wikipedias listing of the EVE expansions, we've got;
- Castor - Tech 2 ships - Conquerable Outposts in 0.0 - The agent mission running system - Research Agents
- Exodus - Deadspace areas - POS's - More ships - Sov claiming
- Cold War - Level 4 agents - COSMOS constellations - Freighters/Dreadnaughts - Better pirate factions - Player buildable stations
- RMR - New bloodlines - 23 new T2 ships - Carriers/Titans/Moms
- Rev I - Scan probes - Exploration - Contracts - T2 Invention - The drone regions - New player experience - Better galaxy map - Rigs and boosters - EVE voice
- Rev II - Overheating - Bombs - Level 5 agents - updating sov/starbases/outposts - Better tutorials
- Trinity - totally overhauled graphics engine - 20 new ships
- EA - Faction warfare - black rise
- QR - certs and medals - The Orca - indy ship rebalances - weapon grouping
- Apocrypha - Tech 3 ships with 3 of 5 subsystem variations (still waiting on the fifth!) - wormhole space, ~2200 new systems - sleepers - epic arcs - rig sizes
- Dominion - major sov changes - pirate epic arcs - faction ship rebalances
- Tyrannis - planetary interaction - landmarks? - new scorpion model - alienware lights?
- Incursion - Sansha incursions - new character creator - new ships (Noctis, sansha SC)
I mean I know Tyrannis has been stated as "what not to do", when you're bullet pointing a single ship model and color coded lights as major features you should rethink what you're doing. 1 expansion a year at the least would put some oomph back into the content side of things.
Best post yet, shows just exactly how (with the exception of Apocrypha) CCP have failed to deliver to their original high standards, and with more CCP employees it is getting worse.
To be fair, a couple things were missed:
*analysis of lag *significant work into optimizations of code to decrease lag *converting to 64-bit item ID code (or w/e it is)
I R comp sci student. Admittedly I do not have a HUGE amount of experience in it, but I have figured out one thing:
Creating something new is comparatively easy. You build it, make sure it works, maybe do some optimizations of it to make it run faster, and release it.
Making changes to something that was made by someone else (especially broad, involved changes like these) is significantly harder. You have to read and learn someone else's code, figure out what exactly is being done, and get the same output... but better (faster, more detailed, etc).
Doing this to a codebase which has grown and evolved for years is even harder; Part A relies on part B which relies on part C which gets info from part D, but part D primarily does something completely different; it just happens to have a function for the info C needs. Imagine going in and trying to optimize part D; you see this function that nothing in D uses, implementing it with the other changes you're making is MUCH harder, so you prune it out. Suddenly A, B, and C all don't work, and you have to figure out why.
Doing it to a program with near-100% uptime with users who aren't terribly forgiving of bugs is masochistic.
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ] |
Cedims
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Posted - 2011.01.14 15:08:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Berikath Doing it to a program with near-100% uptime with users who aren't terribly forgiving of bugs is masochistic.
We are NOT just "users" (and I mean in the traditional computer network sense), we are CUSTOMERS who PAY for a SUBSCRIPTION of software.
E.g. if you subscribed to the New York Times and saw a whole lot of words mispelled and sentences that were grammatically wrong, pictures connected with the wrong text, erroneous quotes, etc. would you still subscribe to that newspaper?
Anyways, NOT being a critic to your subscribed material WILL ultimately result in you stopping your subscription. It's just a matter of time before the material is no longer what you expect. This is why you SHOULD stick your two cents into the discussion!
Also, subscriptions are by design a nice medium to maintain quality for YOU! However, by being silent, the publisher will ultimately do what THEY want or what they THINK you want.
Just MY two cents!
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Chiselhead
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Posted - 2011.01.15 14:18:00 -
[366]
Maybe you guys at CCP could actually fix some things before moving on to another expantion, you know some of those things you guys give a low priority to, Like Killmails. I would like to see one that is correct, I mean really if you can't get a little thing like that right what else are you missing.
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Kulidun
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Posted - 2011.01.18 15:49:00 -
[367]
Stop changing things. People play Eve....or do anything for that matter, because of the way it is, not for the way it might be. Every time something is good, people want to meddle with it, tweak it, in an attempt to make it better, or to appease some whining malcontent. All that ever happens is it gets ruined. I have played a number of online games, that start out popular, and are fun to play. They are flawed, but that is part of the fun. After endless tweaking, the challenges are all eliminated, everything is exactly fair, even and balanced; people are bored to death and move on. I play Eve because of how it is, am not interested in how it might be. Instead of changing this game, make a new one, with all of the upcoming changes, hopefully all of the unhappy people will go there. |
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