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Opertone
Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:59:00 -
[151]
I had most lvl 5 skills in training done on all my accounts... I was superior, now I am like everyone else out there.
CCP next wrong move is to take gunnery away, and add +10 to damage holy necklace, which only costs 2 plex to have.
and finally, mining and industry is stupid too... Let NPCs drop gold and other NPCs sell equipment.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.11.27 10:21:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Clyde ElectraGlide I've been playing since December of 05 and I think this is one of the best decisions CCP's ever made for the game.
Vets/almost vets who think this is awesome, report in!
I'm mostly indifferent to removing them. On one hand they did help off over the years. And on the other, they shouldn't have added them to the game in the first place.
In the end they've already more than paid off for those of us that have been playing eve long enough. Why are so many people so up in arms over removing them from the game? At least you'll have a chunk of sp that you can tpss into something useful.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2010.11.27 10:26:00 -
[153]
So what I say to the OP...new players over time will have in the skills department less of a disadvantage then the early players. It is not like they will ever catch up fully, or overtake you in skill points!
Wasn't the game worth playing before, now you know players that start now have an easier time? If so, rage quit, else shut up and continue to enjoy the game. I am perfectly certain someone will want to have your stuff!
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 10:52:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Forum Guy on 27/11/2010 10:52:32
Originally by: Opertone I had most lvl 5 skills in training done on all my accounts... I was superior, now I am like everyone else out there.
CCP next wrong move is to take gunnery away, and add +10 to damage holy necklace, which only costs 2 plex to have.
and finally, mining and industry is stupid too... Let NPCs drop gold and other NPCs sell equipment.
*yawn*
I'm sure you felt superior in your own mind, but I doubt you were superior in anyone elses.
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Brianna Bloodfang
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:06:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Arakash Mond
Quote: Isn't it funny how incredibly INCREDIBLY childish the whines about this are, from the very people saying "EVE is meant to be hard, it's meant to tough and newbs need to learn this!" the biggest hypocritical WHINERS in this forum at this point.
What's even more funny is that the vast majority of whining posts on this subject are from the people who actually got what they want. Which is quite revealing as to the type of players such a move appeals to. Let the handful of unhappy players complain a bit. Their accounts will expire (mine ends tomorrow) and then they will be gone and the game will be yours. I mean go play the game already! Not mining in low-sec anymore
That's what im waiting for. I'll be watching every single one to see if they carry out their "threats".
And if you think removing ONE pointless complexity "dumbs down" this game, step back and actually LOOK at the game.
Im 100% Sure this is a case of "baaaaaaw, i (in my own head) was superior, i am elite, but mean ole CCP took that away from me!!!111! baaaaaaaaaw"
What ever happened to Playing a game for...oh...you know...Fun?
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:10:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *Puts Flame suit on.*
1.) I am happy for the sp refund. 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game. 3.) I liked the learning skills. So those who say everybody hated them is a LIAR. 4.) I let my wow subby lapse because i honestly thought Eve was different. This dumbing down bs is getting old. 5.) I am glad that sheep are happy and getting everything they want by crying. Waahh..oops sheep Baaaawwaaaah. 6.) Will i stay and play sure. Am i allowed to voice my opinion? You betcha. Even tho the rabid sheep will tear me a new one. 7.) Anybody have any marshmellows for the flames i'm about to recieve? Yours Misha.
Very good points.
Not very good points at all.
To Misha, The games not being dumbed down anyone bright enough can see that they were totally unnecessary from the start.
I've not seen anyone say everyone hated them, if they did this arguement would have not gone on for as long as it did.
Most things change with time, if you can't handle change you are going to have a tough time with life. This is not dumbing down the game anyway, it's just removing a time-sink, but it seems some people like time-sinks I guess no surprise there really.
Eve is different to WoW, always will be.
We are not the sheep we are not following a bad game design blindly. Seems to me it's you that's doing all the crying.
Not keen on marshmellows.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:17:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Misha M''Liena on 27/11/2010 14:18:45 Not very good points at all.
To Misha, The games not being dumbed down anyone bright enough can see that they were totally unnecessary from the start.
I've not seen anyone say everyone hated them, if they did this arguement would have not gone on for as long as it did.
Most things change with time, if you can't handle change you are going to have a tough time with life. This is not dumbing down the game anyway, it's just removing a time-sink, but it seems some people like time-sinks I guess no surprise there really.
Eve is different to WoW, always will be.
We are not the sheep we are not following a bad game design blindly. Seems to me it's you that's doing all the crying.
Not keen on marshmellows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First off. Forum guy, You seem pretty intelligent. For somebody with a closed mind. *Sry still on first cup of java...its a compliment of sorts* It's your opinion the eve isn't being dumbed down. To me it is in a sense. I'd better explain. Don't want to be misunderstood. The Dumbing down part to ME is taking the skills out. (I said i like the refund) It doesn't matter to me about the *learning skills* ---->>>>>>> IT's the Learning Process!<<<----. The skills helped people plan and what to do. Yes i realize everybody is on a semi even keel now ecept with those with sp in the millions. They have a advantage of knowledge and eperience. (and keyboards that work freaking Xxxxx key). That is where i am coming from. Now as for the *wow* Yes i realize 2 diff games. I started on ult online Years and years ago. Life? Son i'm 48 be 49 in jan.
Ok Maybe the sheep was used a bit generally (one L or 2? hmm) But i won't take it back as Most are. I never said It was a bad game design. Maybe somebody else. Crying? Naw Just stating my opinion :)
*Hands ForumGUy a coke or if legal drinking age a pitcher of long island ice tea.*
Yours Misha.
Ps. Finally got t2 flame suit trained! Cool a guiness kegs in here!!
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:25:00 -
[158]
>My faces when people, especially bitter vets are whining that something is not fair (this is EVE FFS?)
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:29:00 -
[159]
Ummm Where in my post did i say or imply that its unfair?
Yours Misha.
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:33:00 -
[160]
I was referring to the OP.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:41:00 -
[161]
Opps sorry Teinyhr my bad. *Passes toasted Misha marshmellows and cookies over*
Yours misha.
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Laarz
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:51:00 -
[162]
Well i feel its time i reply to one of these many posts on the same subject.
Personally I feel this is the worst decision CCP has ever made, not because it directly affects me or because new players get it "too" easy.
I never thought there was anything wrong with the learning skills and i feel they added abit more complexity and diversity to the game. I only ever trained the secondary skills to lvl 4 and with the changes i will have higher attributes and train skills quicker but i dont care much for that and im not too excited about gettin 1.8M SP's to spend.This be the only time I have disagreed with something that CCP has decided to do. Eve truly will change forever when this goes through but personally I think its a change for the worse.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:54:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *snip* The Dumbing down part to ME is taking the skills out. (I said i like the refund) It doesn't matter to me about the *learning skills* ---->>>>>>> IT's the Learning Process!<<<----. The skills helped people plan and what to do. *snip*
Fine in theory, but praxis showed problems: 1) people desperately want to catch up with older players SP-wise, as they see this as their only chance of being able to compete, thus they sat instation, trained them from the start and gave up on the game - CCP lost INCOME 2) learning skills did nothing for your ability to do use ingame gear, it just made skill training faster - CCP could have got a problem with that, but well, guess what, over the years we got so many skills that there will be no more fear, that anyone will reach all skills at lvl5 anytime soon (or ever) 3) CCP didn't wanted those learning skills anyway 4) you don't learn anything by sitting on station or use your noobship the 100st time - you learn by DOING - now they can do (and do also wrong) right from the start 5) taking skills out of a game that let you train fast doesn't dumb it down. WTZ did. The new probing System did. New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:02:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena First off. Forum guy, You seem pretty intelligent. For somebody with a closed mind.
I could quite as easily say you're the one with the closed mind.
My mind is actually fairly open, which is why I asked the keep them lobby to give a genuine reason for keeping them, but none were put forward.
The keep them arguements seem to centre around the individual.
The remove them arguements do not just centre around the individual, they are considering other people too, which is a big plus in my book.
Originally by: Misha M'Liena
The Dumbing down part to ME is taking the skills out. (I said i like the refund) It doesn't matter to me about the *learning skills* ---->>>>>>> IT's the Learning Process!<<<----. The skills helped people plan and what to do. Yes i realize everybody is on a semi even keel now ecept with those with sp in the millions. They have a advantage of knowledge and eperience. (and keyboards that work freaking Xxxxx key). That is where i am coming from.
The learning process does not suffer with the removal of the learning skills, it's effectively unchanged. You still have to plan which direction your character will go in and how to remap. Big difference is people will no longer have to waste 2 - 3 months learning skills that are unnecessary. The fact that nearly everyone learnt those learning skills near the start makes them pointless.
Originally by: Misha M'Liena
Now as for the *wow* Yes i realize 2 diff games. I started on ult online Years and years ago. Life? Son i'm 48 be 49 in jan.
It would be biologically impossible for me to be your son if that is your age. I know you did not mean it in that context.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:06:00 -
[165]
Ok Tres. I agree with most. But when i started i didn't wait in a station training learning skills. I was new. I went exploring. I went and did tutorials and learned. Yes the learning skills were plugged in after i learned about them. *shrugs* But i was mining. I was doing tutorials. AND i was training other skills i needed. Example. What do you mean i need frigate trained to get a cruiser? So i trained it to get said cruiser skill.
This is what is confusing me. Just cause we were training the learning skills. Doesn't mean we can't train others skills too.
Maybe i'm just a old drunk that doesn't get it.
Yours Misha.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:12:00 -
[166]
Originally by: John Mongrel Hello all,
Yes, this is me whining. This is me hating the new changes and looking for people who agree. This is me being a grumpy old veteran EVE Player envy of the new players getting it all handed to them on a silver platter. - Therefore no need to reconfirm this. I'm well aware of it.
That is all.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Commoner
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:31:00 -
[167]
Early 05 toon reporting in who is very glad this change was made!
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Ava Starfire
Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:52:00 -
[168]
Due to training three characters on one account, my "main" (IE, this one) has a whopping 26m SP. Learning skills benefited all three characters, 5/4 on this one, and now will benefit me again, by being extra SP I can allocate to something else. Where, exactly, is the drawback in this for us?
PS. There is a LOT more to playing EVE than how many SP you have.
Dirty Little Slave, reporting for duty! |
Tom Gerard
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:56:00 -
[169]
OP is right the rest of you are trollin'
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:58:00 -
[170]
I put some more thought into this last night and realized one thing. For true "vets" this is a good thing. This will bring in more competition for PvP. This will encourage more players to join and help balance the market better. This will allow the training of alts on second and third accounts for vets like CCP wants. This...is awesome.
Sig.Learning skills vote. |
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.29 11:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 13:34:35
Originally by: My Postman And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
who's Jennifer Darling? Don't contract it to the wrong person! :o
Sorry for the Typo Jennifer!
Over the weekend i unsubbed my two alt accounts so this is the last remining account holding all the stuff.
Your chances of getting a lot of stuff (and several billions) still remain 50/50 i would say by now. Every single line i read about this s*** makes me wanting to unsub this last account more.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.29 11:31:00 -
[172]
Originally by: My Postman Sorry for the Typo Jennifer!
Over the weekend i unsubbed my two alt accounts so this is the last remining account holding all the stuff.
Your chances of getting a lot of stuff (and several billions) still remain 50/50 i would say by now. Every single line i read about this s*** makes me wanting to unsub this last account more.
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but why not play on, gameplay wise nothing has changed much; if the learning skills had never existed I bet you'd have been just as happy with EVE.
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Terrigal
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Posted - 2010.11.29 11:46:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Terrigal on 29/11/2010 11:47:28 To the Op your're right in some regards but you're wrong about learning skills these shouldve been removed as soon as CCP started introducing more and more specialised ships and the training that goes with it.
I've 2 chars both with 5/4 in learning skills both characters are nearly at 50mil sp and both are 6 months off being 3 years old so either you quit at some stage or you did quite get it, for a 5 yo toon you should have 80mil sp not 57mil as you stated.
However it does peave me off as ive 2.2mil in sp for learning 5/4 so im being robbed by CCP for the loss of 400k sp i can imagine how peaved someone with 5/5 is right now and not to mention the time it took to acuire these skills.
Also to the OP dont worry CCP is dumbing down the game as i heard a rumour that their introducing micro transactions, i've no idea as to how, what or when, and my thought on this is itll be even more new player crap.
For sale SP booster only 1.6bil but itll reduce 5 months in training per year is my guess. |
My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:16:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/11/2010 11:36:57
Originally by: My Postman Sorry for the Typo Jennifer!
Over the weekend i unsubbed my two alt accounts so this is the last remining account holding all the stuff.
Your chances of getting a lot of stuff (and several billions) still remain 50/50 i would say by now. Every single line i read about this s*** makes me wanting to unsub this last account more.
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but why not play on, gameplay wise nothing has changed much; if the learning skills had never existed I bet you'd have been just as happy with EVE.
And where will you go anyway, there's nothing much like EVE around, with or without learning skills.
Well, Jennifer i think gamplay IS changing, slowly but still changing imo. And i feel itŠs taking the wrong direction.
As iŠm not very much with this "cold, harsh bla bla" community, i felt that this is not a game with "instant gratification", and actions you take do actually have an impact on your wallet/reputation/e-peen.
Now (as you might know me from forums as well) there are many threads about plex-for-remap, intoducing microtransactions, and other "features" dumbling this game down.
This makes me feel all CCP is thinking about fattening THEIR wallet by luring more new players into the game. Removing the learning skill tree is the first step.
This could have been made by improving the UI, fighting the lag, improving graphics and so on, but not by giving "instant gratification".
Furthermore this change does not affect newbies allone, but all other "older" players too who haveŠnt botherd with learning skills.
Still my point stands.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:21:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Terrigal <snip>
However it does peave me off as ive 2.2mil in sp for learning 5/4 so im being robbed by CCP for the loss of 400k sp i can imagine how peaved someone with 5/5 is right now and not to mention the time it took to acuire these skills.
<snip>
How exactly is CCP robbing you of 400k SP?
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Freya Gleamingstar
Amarr Trust Doesn't Rust Supremacy.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:50:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Freya Gleamingstar on 29/11/2010 12:52:00 Can only see positive points with this for vets:
1) We've essentially had some SP's banked for us, trained at likely our best attribute, while we were (years ago) too young and too stupid to know how to spend them properly.
2) Opportunity thus to now spend the points wisely, or on skills that we'd never have specced attributes to (Leadership, Corp Management, hell even Social for PvErs) Moreso, opportunity to re-spend these points on advanced skills rather than basic ones.
3) On December 15th, seriously, is nobody savouring the chance to go out there and PWN all the newbies suddenly skilled for T2 fitted BS and Capitals, with no idea whatsoever how to use them? Cmon people. Skills are no substitute for experience. Enjoy your enhanced KB ratio's.
Remember for younger players they will only be spending this SP to get prerequisites for advanced skills, not buying up advanced skills to any appreciable levels.
[color=#FF0000]{SGX}<AM> Curmudgeon and Veteran Sabre Rattler[/color]
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:59:00 -
[177]
Nerf Achura, nerf Achura.. oh.. wrong thread.
As someone who has a top 10 Achura and a top 3 Jin Mei on EVEboard in total SP I'm really glad to see that the learning skills finally will be gone. Yes it will be a slight speed reduction but tbh, it wasn't that long ago we got a massive speed increase thanks to the neural remaps.
To celebrate the removals of the learning skills I will get a new account on the 14th. It will be really strange to actually do useful skills from the get go. Oh and the side effect that we don't need to waste clone space for learning skills is most welcome.
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Chronos Chi
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Posted - 2010.11.29 13:29:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Chronos Chi on 29/11/2010 13:31:09
Originally by: Freya Gleamingstar Edited by: Freya Gleamingstar on 29/11/2010 12:52:00 Can only see positive points with this for vets:
1) We've essentially had some SP's banked for us, trained at likely our best attribute, while we were (years ago) too young and too stupid to know how to spend them properly.
2) Opportunity thus to now spend the points wisely, or on skills that we'd never have specced attributes to (Leadership, Corp Management, hell even Social for PvErs) Moreso, opportunity to re-spend these points on advanced skills rather than basic ones.
3) On December 15th, seriously, is nobody savouring the chance to go out there and PWN all the newbies suddenly skilled for T2 fitted BS and Capitals, with no idea whatsoever how to use them? Cmon people. Skills are no substitute for experience. Enjoy your enhanced KB ratio's.
Remember for younger players they will only be spending this SP to get prerequisites for advanced skills, not buying up advanced skills to any appreciable levels.
this is the most correct post i have read on this subject so far, basically us old players have nothing to fear. If your worried that an extra 5.6mil or whatever sp is gonna buy newbie'ish, in the non derogatory sense, characters a shed load of game experience, contacts, and tactical knowledge then you really are playing the wrong game.
We all have sp in skills we shouldn't really have bothered training. Christ I have mining 5 and stuff like that that I wish I hadn't bothered training haven't mined properly since 2005. The amount of SP I wasted on stuff you could give to a new character and they would be a half decent fleet tackler and I'd still be able to enjoy doing what I enjoy doing in EvE.
Vets and old characters are always gonna be ahead of the game not only in SP but in everything EvE has to offer because we have seen and done things newbies only can dream of when they undock and see the stars for the first time.
And honestly as a old player I havent really, like a lot of the so called Vets, even scratched the surface of what EvE has to offer as a player even after almost 7 years ( I might just be a little slow on the uptake but I bet the previous statement is almost correct )
TL:DR Just get over it, its happening tomorrow, I'm pretty non plus'ed about it happening, I/we cant stop it from happening just carry on as you where.
Chronos (Jan 2004 100m+ SP)
Edited for bad grammer
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.29 13:57:00 -
[179]
rofl how is it dumbing down?
What is complex about putting your API into EVEMon, creating a skillplan and letting it tell you which Learning Skills to train for maximum efficiency?
****ing whining pricks.
[html]http://skilltrainingcomplete.com/users/flair/1417.html[/html] |
Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:13:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain rofl how is it dumbing down?
What is complex about putting your API into EVEMon, creating a skillplan and letting it tell you which Learning Skills to train for maximum efficiency?
****ing whining pricks.
Well said.
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