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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:13:00 -
[1]
Hello all,
Yes, this is me whining. This is me hating the new changes and looking for people who agree. This is me being a grumpy old veteran EVE Player envy of the new players getting it all handed to them on a silver platter. - Therefore no need to reconfirm this. I'm well aware of it.
The current skills changes worries me. We will no longer have the Learning Skill category to train for, so that newer players will have a better, and easier, start. I'm cool with new players having it a bit more easy. EVE Online is a rough and hard game to start with, and that's why I didn't whine about the 100% Training bonus up till 1.6m SP - It was perfectly fair and you could get in the game, PvP'ing with just that amount, as seen in this EVE Movie: The CCP-Test
This is why I'm more or less ****ed off at the moment. With the current changes everyone, theoretically, gets 5.2m SP worth of attributes, from the start. The time I spent on just 4/4 in learning (Excluding Charisma, who the **** even uses that?) I get back in what converts to 1.8m SP. I'm happy with that. But what about the SP I could have earned with this full boost of my attributes from the start of character creation? At the moment my character is around the 57m SP amount, and if I had been provided with 5/5 in Learning skills from the start, I would have had a lot more than just 57m (I'm not a math-genius, so therefore I'll let all the math be handled by one).
This is not fair by far. We've seen how new players can get right into the game and PvP with the above mentioned movie, so how is it that they also need a free boost? I didn't train for learning skills at the very first time of my EVE Experience. I used those I had, and maybe trained them to 4/0 at first. The 4.5m each was a huge load of isk for me in the start of my EVE career aswell, earning my isk by doing missions and looting what I could so I didn't get all the advanced learning skills from the beginning.
I've always had the impression that nothing comes cheap in EVE, so how is it the game's rough and merciless learning curve is being ****ed over by this change? - Now you're handed a character and all you need to make sure of is that you have some kind of skill training 24/7 and you won't lose one SP by bad training. - We lost SP by bad training, because we didn't start with a full set of attributes, so why do you want to change those rules after more than 5 years? New players right now save time. Saving time is earning more isk. Earning more isk is giving them the possibility of buying another High-SP toon with 100m SP and never experience another skill of the game, planning.
This change also removes another benefit with Learning Skills. The possibility of catching up. I have a alt who just reached the 53m SP mark. He was made in 2007-09-25 whereas my main character was made in 2006-12-11. There's just a slight change in SP between these two, and both of them have been suspended when the other were. - The only difference is my alt having 5/5 (Also Charisma) in learning. Where my main has 4/4 (Without charisma). This possibility and chance is being removed from the game. Completely.
These kind of changes really makes me look back on Star Wars Galaxies. It was a complex leveling system that got ruined because they wanted to attract more people and make it easier for those people - And give Jedi to those people who whined about some using more than on the game than others.
Stop ruining EVE Online and it's complexity CCP. Keep the Learning Skills or give those people who spent 2 or 3 months training their learning skills to 5 some kind of bigger compensation than the skillpoints handed back. We've used more than 3 months training our learning skills up to a max of 5, and what we are getting back isn't even enough compensation for those 50+$ used - Let alone considering the SP's we've lost training up attributes to gain more.
That is all.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:16:00 -
[2]
We're all very sorry for you. Perhaps it's best for all of us if you ragequit and give me your stuff?
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Gaboth Zaradath
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:17:00 -
[3]
No, give all your stuff to me!
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Boinz
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Boinz on 25/11/2010 15:23:10 THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby
Oh yeah this thread was really pointless Look:
Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage
oh yeah and the ccp thread: Linkage
idiot..
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:22:00 -
[5]
Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18
Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby
That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
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Boinz
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: John Mongrel Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18
Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby
That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: John Mongrel Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18
Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby
That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
Sorry, what? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Niclas Solo
Amarr Love n Peace Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:25:00 -
[8]
So you are angry because you didn't take the time to train learningskills and you think you lose on that with this change? not anyone else fault then yours that you choose to play the game like that. i did my learnings higher then you 5/4 but i choose to play with LG slaves instead of +4 or +5 is't fair that you learn faster then me even when i spent more time on learning skills?
We all choose how we want to play so don't blame anyone else for what you choose.
Atleast you will always be 60 mil higher in SP then someone that join on dec 14 and you will start training faster.
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
I build my own rigs so they are free.
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Alt Tabbed
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Boinz
Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
Post Facts or GTFO.
Originally by: Redshift XIII
Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
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Niclas Solo
Amarr Love n Peace Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Boinz
Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
Post Facts or GTFO.
Here is your fact... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510
looks like 95% is very happy about this.
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
I build my own rigs so they are free.
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Arakash Mond
Amarr Kings In The Back Row
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:31:00 -
[11]
My rage quit notice to CCP: 'I played off and on for about 5 years and it was fun and challenging. Thank you for a great game. The writing is on the wall with the removal of learning skills and it says that you are trying to attract the kiddie set to the game. Best of luck.'
See you guys. Be good and take care of each other. All my gear goes to my ten year old nephew who loves the game still. Arakash out 0/
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Niclas Solo So you are angry because you didn't take the time to train learningskills and you think you lose on that with this change? not anyone else fault then yours that you choose to play the game like that. i did my learnings higher then you 5/4 but i choose to play with LG slaves instead of +4 or +5 is't fair that you learn faster then me even when i spent more time on learning skills?
We all choose how we want to play so don't blame anyone else for what you choose.
Atleast you will always be 60 mil higher in SP then someone that join on dec 14 and you will start training faster.
No I'm not angry at when and how I decided to train my Learning Skills. I wasn't really considering training them higher than 4/4 unless EVEMon suggested I'd do it because the training time would become faster with some of the basics at level 5.
While you played with LG Slaves, you gained a bonus knowing this would slow your training time. I used my implants with the intention of decreasing my training time, that's why I smacked my head in with a +4 implant set so I didn't have to train my learning skills higher and lose training time on my PvP skills doing this.
I'm not blaming any new, old or veteran players. I'm blaming CCP Niclas.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Durzel on 25/11/2010 15:33:16 -5/10
People who trained Learning skills at the beginning/early on got, and will still have, the advantage that everything else they trained finished faster. That's an advantage that free SP & artificially higher attributes now can never replace.
In short, OP is dumb as a plank.
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Niclas Solo
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Boinz
Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
Post Facts or GTFO.
Here is your fact... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510
looks like 95% is very happy about this.
Got your back bro
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:34:00 -
[15]
+1 for the op.
What gets me and always has is why new players get two remaps,and older players got one lol.Like telling them **** you.
What is the reason for this if not to tell us **** you?
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Alt Tabbed
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Niclas Solo
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Boinz
Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
Post Facts or GTFO.
Here is your fact... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510
looks like 95% is very happy about this.
Ummm That is not a Fact.
That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics.
But thanks for playing.
Originally by: Redshift XIII
Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
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Zaboth Garadath
Amarr Ore Extraction Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: John Mongrel Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18
Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby
That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
When I started eve it was soooo much harder to overcome the learning cliff. Yes, it is easier now. It should be easier. Why shouldn't it be easier? If you are scared that noobs will start reaching your level, fear not, as:
You have more sp than any newbie.
You always will.
Problem?
Also, remember than skill is not proportional to sp, but time played. I for one am exited about the prospect that noobs will be flying flashier ships quicker
_____________________________________________
'If you really want to make someone hate you, explain to them, logically and politely, why they are wrong' - J. Baylock |
Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Ummm That is not a Fact.
That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics.
But thanks for playing.
If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on.
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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Gone Beserk
Minmatar Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc Scorned Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:41:00 -
[19]
As far as i know , we will be able to redistribute the SP we got in learning , thats enuf for me =D
Besides , dont we older players have enough advantages as it is with our far FAAAR superior ship choices? New players wont spend the first month learning learning skills anymore = more will stay.
I can put my learning sp into other neat stuff , new players will stick around more..
Win is win
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Alt Tabbed
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Boinz
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Ummm That is not a Fact.
That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics.
But thanks for playing.
If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on.
And there lays the rub.
Cause I'd say he is dead wrong.
:-)
Originally by: Redshift XIII
Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Boinz
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Ummm That is not a Fact.
That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics.
But thanks for playing.
B...but the majority is ALWAYS right!! If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on.
And there lays the rub.
Cause I'd say he is dead wrong.
:-)
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Boinz
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Ummm That is not a Fact.
That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics.
But thanks for playing.
If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on.
And there lays the rub.
Cause I'd say he is dead wrong.
:-)
You're the one trying to refute the original claim, therefor the burden of proof falls to you. Give us facts, or go home. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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MadManMaura
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 -
[23]
I am kinda of agreeing with the OP, I dont want CCP making this game any easier, its going to attract the wrong type of person and eventually steer the game towards pure PVE super carebears.
I actually dont think the current player should get that much of a break eve is suppose to kick you in the nuts and your supposed to get up after that and figure out who not to let that happen again
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Djavo
Storm Solutions Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: John Mongrel Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
Erm, why are +5 implants useless now? Have I missed something!
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:45:00 -
[25]
Lol, blaming CCP for your own decision, to not train them to 5 when you started EVE?
Do the math and you will see that the SP gap, between training the learning skills and having them from start, is much smaller then you make it seem.
The biggest part of SP you lost is because of your own decision to not train them to 5 at start, which always has been the trade of between early progression and faster long term progression.
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Djavo
Originally by: John Mongrel Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
Erm, why are +5 implants useless now? Have I missed something!
No, Op is just talking with his ass.
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: John Mongrel Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
You have an advantage of five years of training time, experience, and making contacts that no newbie starting now can overcome.
Also, the change is good for the game. Compare to the addition of the Skill Queue - anyone who had to train without a skill queue could complain that it was unfair that new players would not have to put up with the broken sleep or lost hours that they had to endure. But the skill queue makes life easier for all the players and makes the game far less of a chore to play.
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Djavo
Storm Solutions Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:47:00 -
[28]
Thank god for that, just purchased two full sets hehe :)
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Wandom Wapist
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:48:00 -
[29]
Vet checking in just to call the Op a name. Vagina. Vet checking out. |
John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:49:00 -
[30]
Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:54:03
Originally by: Gone Beserk As far as i know , we will be able to redistribute the SP we got in learning , thats enuf for me =D
Besides , dont we older players have enough advantages as it is with our far FAAAR superior ship choices? New players wont spend the first month learning learning skills anymore = more will stay.
I can put my learning sp into other neat stuff , new players will stick around more..
Win is win
There is no saying more will stay just because learning skills have been removed from the game. So changing such an important game mechanic like Learning Skills for the "possibility" of more people staying is, sorry, facking stupid. - I've talked with new players who left after 20days to 1+ month because they got griefed, suicide ganked and scammed.
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Originally by: John Mongrel Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
You have an advantage of five years of training time, experience, and making contacts that no newbie starting now can overcome.
That's really not an advantage. That's just me playing EVE for five years before any other newcomer. How can you even remotely call that an advantage??
The whole thing comes down to this. We all agree as of right now Learning Skills is a major part of our training speed, and this training speed decides what you can fly, use and how good. - Everything is really depending on your attributes.
CCP want's to remove this and instead of having you DO something to get these bonuses, you're handed them for free in totall disregard of older players and their time used on this. That's like Blizzard giving every new player Epic Gear in World of Warcraft so they can "join the older players" faster...
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: John Mongrel I've talked with new players who left after 20days to 1+ month because they got griefed, suicide ganked and scammed.
And thus arises like a phoenix from the ashes, the real agenda of this thread.
Shows over folks, you can all go home now. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:51:00 -
[32]
so your annoyed that newbs dont have to be irritated like you were when you started and had to do your learning skills?
you got alot of growing up to do buddy, you aint no vet in life.
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: John Mongrel Hello all,
me whining.. grumpy old ..Player
Really encouraged me to read your big post. Not.
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr Fighter so your annoyed that newbs dont have to be irritated like you were when you started and had to do your learning skills?
you got alot of growing up to do buddy, you aint no vet in life.
No it's really more about choices.
I made some that made my character slower/faster to some degree, I want all new players to experience this aswell. All those happy about the new changes are really just people who are happy that their skill plans now got a lot easier as they don't have to think about training a higher learning skill to train faster.
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hattifnatt
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:01:00 -
[35]
When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
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hattifnatt
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
No YOU had the unfair advantage! They should have added a cooldown between character creation and being able to train advanced learning skills.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
You're a raging hypocrite. That is all. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Larn Conner
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:11:00 -
[39]
@John Mongrel
I agree with you completely.
I find myself wishing I could go back to SWG and keep reminding myself the game is no longer the game it use to be back in 2003.
There's nothing we can do about it, the devs have made up their mind and all we can do is suck it up and drive on or quit.
I think everyone can see that MMOs tend to skew towards simple game play to attract new players, and the vets are the ones left to deal with these choices.
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
You're a raging hypocrite. That is all.
No, I just can't make an opinion of something I didn't experience or now anything about. So my statement then is just rather stupid, I admit to that. But the two issues just can't be compared.
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 -
[41]
Eve doesnt automatically get dumbed down because of this, all they did is remove a really stupid part of the game that they themselves admitted to regretting.
It wont attract some idiot 12 year olds to the game now, they wont look at this game, overlook all the complex things like market, fitting ship, "normal" skill training, mathematical stuff ingame and 0.0 alliance warfare and say "HEY THIS GAME IS REALLY SIMPLE NOW BECAUSE I DONT HAVE TO TRAIN THESE STUPID LEARNING SKILLS THAT BOOSTED MY TRAINING SPEEDS"
I HATE THIS FORUM AAAARGH!!!
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:27:00 -
[42]
I don't understand how removing pointless complexity is bad for us veterans.
unless you're a deranged bitter vet. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Gelanone
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:31:00 -
[43]
The amount of stupidity in this thread is mindboggling :P
Entertaining to read though :)
Simply put, If you've had 1 single learning skill trained, you will have had an advantage compared to a noob.
From whatever day the skills are removed, you'll still have that advantage in pure SP gained, but you wont keep your advantage (except the implants until the noob can affort them)
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gelanone The amount of stupidity in this thread is mindboggling :P
Entertaining to read though :)
Simply put, If you've had 1 single learning skill trained, you will have had an advantage compared to a noob.
From whatever day the skills are removed, you'll still have that advantage in pure SP gained, but you wont keep your advantage (except the implants until the noob can affort them)
and the problem is.....? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Xero Cell
Gallente Rage Orbital Construction Associates Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling We're all very sorry for you. Perhaps it's best for all of us if you ragequit and give me your stuff?
^I support this post.
OP: Please ragequit if you really are so butthurt by the new changes. They aren't really that bad. The simple fact is, new players need way more than a 1.6m sp boost. This game is 7 freaking years old, and there's thousands of players with 40-100 mill skill points. 1 mill sp is nothing compared to this. and by the time they even got to 40m, then the guy with 40m before now has 80m. So really, this helps new players a little bit, and doesnt hurt the old ones at all. Stop complaining, you can still remap and use really expensive implants, so it's not like everyones the same. +5's are quite expensive, so only vet's will be having those. (aside from PLEX sellers).
The bottom line is: Vet's will always be worlds away in SP. So why complain if the little 1mill sp guys get a little boost? Get over yourselves, you grumpy old timers. I'm only a 3 year vet myself, and I don't care at all that brand new players get a nice boost.
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Zeuth Proxy
Caldari Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:41:00 -
[46]
Can I get a TL:DR version or is it just to pointless to waste time on?
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:49:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 25/11/2010 16:54:36 Learning skills have always been a ******ed idea. This is the best xmas gift from CCP for a long (overdue) time. The EvE learning curve is steep and long enough that you shouldn't have to also train to learn faster - that's just stupid. Just because we had it worse when we joined years ago doesn't mean that players should continue to suffer this stupidity. The idea is to improve things over time afterall.
EDIT: Also having "choices" for the sake of having them is dumb. Choosing between being able to train stuff faster later or training it slower now is no fun so it's not a good choice to have to make. I'm all for giving people the chance to make choices but at least make the interesting ones...
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M Teresa
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy Can I get a TL:DR version or is it just to pointless to waste time on?
No you cant, it wasted my time when I had to read it myself, to make me feel better, your time has to be wasted as well.
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Shadow Nebulae
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
You're a raging hypocrite. That is all.
No, I just can't make an opinion of something I didn't experience or now anything about. So my statement then is just rather stupid, I admit to that. But the two issues just can't be compared.
Dude.
Just S T F U !
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:53:00 -
[50]
'94 Player logging in to say the OP is ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: John Mongrel But what about the SP I could have earned with this full boost of my attributes from the start of character creation?
What about them? What about all those SP people poured into skills that were then changed; into skills that no longer mattered for the FOTM; into skills that no longer had any relevant for what they were doing; etc etc etc.
Quote: This is not fair by far.
Why not? More importantly, so what? The game evolves and changes. These changes will be unfair for some fair for others and beneficial for the rest. Suck it up. The next time it will be beneficial for you and not for that other guy.
Quote: This change also removes another benefit with Learning Skills. The possibility of catching up.
Catching up is irrelevant and learning skills make zero difference anyway.
The skill system in EVE has always made it possible to "catch up" in any meaningful sense of the word. The only thing that is somewhat hard to catch up with is total SPà but total SP is an entirely worthless measure ù it tells us nothing (except how costly it will be to get podded). And even here, learning skills don't particularly solve this irrelevant "catch up" problem, nor are/were they the only way to catch up.
it is a complete non-issue.
Quote: Stop ruining EVE Online and it's complexity CCP.
Having a "must learn or be a sucker" stop-block is not "complexity" ù it's just stupid. Removing stupidity does not ruin a game ù it improves it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:03:00 -
[52]
You start off with more SP now. It is easier to make money in general now. It is much easier to make your first money and get your first ships now. There is more information available online, more helpful 'school' corps/alliances and no doubt many other things which make life better for noobs now than you or I had it.
But, as has been pointed out, the tradeoff is that they are only starting now. And being in the game longer is the second biggest advantage you can have in this game, next to being smart.
And for the sort would actually leave the game over the learning skills, they haven't exactly got that number 1 advantage on their side either. -
I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Draconyx
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:14:00 -
[53]
This will allow a easier time for making alts as you have the ISK to support them.
But I do wonder how many newbies will purchase ships they can't afford and end up broke. The learning skills forced new players into smaller ships making there losses not so painful, but now....
I have admit when they allowed you to redistribute your stats it really did kill any racial choices and made the learning skills pretty much pointless.
Good and bad I guess. Does it make it easier ? Only in the extent that you no longer have to think about what learning skill to train first. Instead now you have to learn about all those others skills right out of the gate.
IN the long run getting rid of learning skills and the ability to redistribute skills is probably a good thing.
Quicker into the game and quicker to make a mistake you will regret later on.
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Kelduum Revaan
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:32:00 -
[54]
Just throwing my 0.02ISK in here. As the CEO of the #1 training corp, I see thousands of noobs a year, so should be able to comment on the changes coming.
The OP has made the same mistake many others do:
SP should not to be confused with Knowledge and Experience.
Knowledge and Experience are what help you play EVE, and what so many take for granted. Its what tells you that that gate is probably going to be camped, and that your ship can destroy your opponent before they can destroy you.
Skill Points are (above all else) flexibility.
That all, nothing more. It gives you the ability to fly other shinier stuff and fit shinier weapons, run bigger corps, bigger fleets and so on. Yes, they give you some significant bonuses to how you can fit things, but knowing how to fit them well is still paramount.
Take any real noob, give them a dread or something they don't know how to fly and you can bet they will lose it to gate-guns in losec or something equally stupid.
SP gives you the ability to use things, not the knowledge to do so effectively. _____
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Aphser
Amarr Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:41:00 -
[55]
*insert "EVE is dying, dude" comment*
*insert "What do you expect, typical CCP decision" comment*
*stopping to care much about a game that becomes less and less interesting*
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:51:00 -
[56]
Originally by: John Mongrel No it's really more about choices.
I made some that made my character slower/faster to some degree, I want all new players to experience this aswell. All those happy about the new changes are really just people who are happy that their skill plans now got a lot easier as they don't have to think about training a higher learning skill to train faster.
And you forget, choices trickle down. CCP at the top layed the foundation of the game through their choice of the slow progression skill system, its the players choice if they want to spend money on WoW and instant gratification or EVE's slow style payout. Which game does CCP want the players to spend their money and not get bored in the process? So yeah, its a huge choice for CCP to change their game and in the long term its a good one!
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ArmyOfMe
Pastry Productions Inc. Aesir Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.26 07:54:00 -
[57]
so your char is basicly an 07, your not even close to being able to call yourself a vet. Now get out please.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:21:00 -
[58]
Youre right op. Everyone else is just too stupid to understand. Its sad i know, but face it: The vast majority of people are unbelievably dumb. Thats why todays charts are todays charts, people fear terrorists or eve online removes learnings..
You cant talk to them. They wont get it. Not even because they dont want to. They simply cant comprehend it. I know it feels like youre kind of paralyzed but they wont get you, no matter what you try.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: M Teresa
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy Can I get a TL:DR version or is it just to pointless to waste time on?
No you cant, it wasted my time when I had to read it myself, to make me feel better, your time has to be wasted as well.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:33:00 -
[60]
Wait a tic, what happened to SP totals don't matter, catching up isn't important because you can specialize and all that mumbo jumbo?
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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Salmeria
Tovarsky Pharmaceuticals
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:36:00 -
[61]
I am glad they are removing learning skills and so is anyone that is not trolling.
I trained that **** four years ago and its at the point where I dont even remember doing it. So pretty much I am not losing anything and I get the ability to train something like fighters V FOR FREE. HELL YES CCP!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:36:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Wait a tic, what happened to SP totals don't matter, catching up isn't important because you can specialize and all that mumbo jumbo?
It's the people who never understood this that are complaining. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Veaon
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:41:00 -
[63]
Learning skills are a crusty old relic from when the game was much younger. Their only purpose was to slow down early game progression to prevent people running out of goals too quickly and give CCP time to add more content. If you don't understand why they are totally pointless now and serve only to harm the game then you are a genuine pants on head ******. Please quit eve.
tl;dr Stop baaaaaaawwwwwwww'ing, you pathetic people |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:41:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 26/11/2010 08:41:23 Out with the old players..... I think that's the plan anyway though I an not for it, but cannot be against it. It does not matter what I think of it.
The old players are the ones who play in big fleet battles, and the clamor for more, and for fixing lag.
Few of the truly new players have been in large fleets and they know only of the game mechanics that support small fleets - that being the new scanning and the changes to other game mechanics. They don't know a "big fleet battle EvE".
Get rid of the people who want large fleet battles (that occur in 0.0 space and the participants are veterans) and they don't have to fix lag, lag that is caused by the new game mechanics for the new players.
my theory
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Zantris
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:46:00 -
[65]
Here is my question...
Why do you care? WTF difference does it make to you.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Get rid of the people who want large fleet battles (that occur in 0.0 space and the participants are veterans) and they don't have to fix lag, lag that is caused by the new game mechanics for the new players.
Ironically, the traditional havens of 0.0 bittervets and unsubbers are full of praise for recent CCP actions (lots of long awaited fixes, waiting until expansions are actually ready and now nuking learning skills). It's bizarro world out there.
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:24:00 -
[67]
Originally by: John Mongrel Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
500 years ago life was a lot harder. People didn't live as long. Now where's the fairness in that?
Originally by: John Mongrel Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
Makes the same difference it always did, unless of course you "vet" didn't get your learnings all the way up as you should have. Oh and why didn't you? Don't hear you moaning about those new attribute points you'll get, given that you apparently didn't max your learnings before... - Don't let the trolls stop you from giving a helpful reply. :) |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:30:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Wandom Wapist Vet checking in just to call the Op a name. Vagina. Vet checking out.
this.. New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:30:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Veaon Their only purpose was to slow down early game progression slow down
You know, I don't think the removal of learning skills really matters that much. It's the fact that everyone who wanted them removed seems to have some kind of handicap, that made me pro keeping them. -
I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:41:00 -
[70]
Can you hear that? That's the sound of epeens deflating. It's a tragic horrible sound which nobody cares about.
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Michwich
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:59:00 -
[71]
Progress, the future cannot be sacrificed for the past.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Michwich Progress, the future cannot be sacrificed for the past.
Progress, money cannot be sacrificed for the sake of a better game.
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Nefera Sen
The Boondock Saints
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:09:00 -
[73]
At 57mill sp, you sir, are NOT a vet.
That is all.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:11:00 -
[74]
It took CCP seven years to realise learning skills are demented and fix them? Congrats!
CCP - locking the stable door after the horse has bolted, died of old age and been flogged repeatedly on the forums
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:15:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Klatho Cron
Originally by: Michwich Progress, the future cannot be sacrificed for the past.
Progress, money cannot be sacrificed for the sake of a better game.
And that's the neat thing: the game is better and CCP will probably make more money (which may or may not make the game better still). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Marchocias
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:27:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Marchocias on 26/11/2010 10:28:18
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: Dr Fighter so your annoyed that newbs dont have to be irritated like you were when you started and had to do your learning skills?
you got alot of growing up to do buddy, you aint no vet in life.
No it's really more about choices.
I made some that made my character slower/faster to some degree, I want all new players to experience this aswell. All those happy about the new changes are really just people who are happy that their skill plans now got a lot easier as they don't have to think about training a higher learning skill to train faster.
Sod off.
I'm a vet and I have a number of chars with maxed learning skills. I think this is a great idea... It removes one of the biggest design mistakes in the game. By complaining about this you have made yourself look simultaneously childish and very thick.
Making sweeping generalisations about other peoples motivations for disagreeing with you also makes you look like an arse. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:29:00 -
[77]
As i said in the original thread, if not beeing at work but at home i would have emo-rage quitted now.
Go for it CCP, there are 397 (?) more skills to wipe out. Free titan for every noob, go go go! Introduce microtransactions, so that noob can buy "concord-god-mode heavy neutron blaster III" with plex.
IŠm sad that i told you "well done" for not allowing remapping for plex a few days ago. You didŠnt deserve that.
Presenting this as a X-mas gift in a "meant to be funny" dev blog by Greyscale is a slap in my face.
At weekend when calmed down (prolly) i will deside if this game is still worth to pay Ç 15/month.
And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:35:00 -
[78]
Originally by: My Postman As i said in the original thread, if not beeing at work but at home i would have emo-rage quitted now.
Why do you have to be at home? The account management is right over there ←
Quote: Go for it CCP, there are 397 (?) more skills to wipe out. Free titan for every noob, go go go! Introduce microtransactions, so that noob can buy "concord-god-mode heavy neutron blaster III" with plex.
Why on earth would they do any of that? They have been regretting the learning skills since long before I even started playing, and over the years, it has become increasingly clear that they were going to fix that problem sooner or later. Not the player ù CCP said it was a problem (in fact, they were the first ones I heard saying it). Now they have done just that: fixed a very old design flaw. What you're raging about has never been brought up as an issue that needs fixing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:35:00 -
[79]
Originally by: My Postman As i said in the original thread, if not beeing at work but at home i would have emo-rage quitted now.
Go for it CCP, there are 397 (?) more skills to wipe out. Free titan for every noob, go go go! Introduce microtransactions, so that noob can buy "concord-god-mode heavy neutron blaster III" with plex.
IŠm sad that i told you "well done" for not allowing remapping for plex a few days ago. You didŠnt deserve that.
Presenting this as a X-mas gift in a "meant to be funny" dev blog by Greyscale is a slap in my face.
At weekend when calmed down (prolly) i will deside if this game is still worth to pay Ç 15/month.
And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
Rage all you want the second you step out of the cyber world Gavrilo Princip you will be arested for your crimes against humanity. You thought I forgot or wasn't watching.
No one escapes Alara IonStorm Worlds Greatest Detective!
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Marchocias
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:38:00 -
[80]
Originally by: My Postman And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
Her brown nosing finally paid off! ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:42:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: My Postman As i said in the original thread, if not beeing at work but at home i would have emo-rage quitted now.
Go for it CCP, there are 397 (?) more skills to wipe out. Free titan for every noob, go go go! Introduce microtransactions, so that noob can buy "concord-god-mode heavy neutron blaster III" with plex.
IŠm sad that i told you "well done" for not allowing remapping for plex a few days ago. You didŠnt deserve that.
Presenting this as a X-mas gift in a "meant to be funny" dev blog by Greyscale is a slap in my face.
At weekend when calmed down (prolly) i will deside if this game is still worth to pay Ç 15/month.
And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
Rage all you want the second you step out of the cyber world Gavrilo Princip you will be arested for your crimes against humanity. You thought I forgot or wasn't watching.
No one escapes Alara IonStorm Worlds Greatest Detective!
what about Carmen Sandiego? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:48:00 -
[82]
@Tippia
As i do respect you as a meaningful forum warrior knowing many of your valid quotes, at this time i canŠt be with you. Arguing with you when english is not your native tongue can be problematic, at least. So i wonŠt
@ Alara
Again wow, your memory is serving you well, at least a bit better than mine, i nearly had to google (again) before remembering. But at least you made me smile a bit when having tears from anger in my eyes.
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Dog277
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Posted - 2010.11.26 11:48:00 -
[83]
I for one am glad to rid of the learning skills. Having been in game somewhere between 1 1/2 - 2 years now there are still more choices in this game that effect what u can do, and where to go in the game that, i feel, this decision made by ccp devs will make it better for new players to get a feel for EVE before they get bored and quite. To the players that are complaining about this ccp DID NOT have to let us reallocate those skillpoints we trained they could have just taken them out and said too bad so ur not really losing anything but gaining the time back u spent training them in the first place, on top of the training time u gained training with the learning skills trained up. I have played other MMO's that the devs didn't put half the thought into the changes they made making the game better but instead made changes in the game to get more money out of the ppl that played it. CCP has made a game that they could have total control over but they give us, the players, more control over our gaming experience, we control the market as players we are given the opportunity to control a sector of the game, 0.0 and wormhole space, or play in the safe havens of high sec. My hat goes off to CCP and the devs who strive to make this game what it is. THEY LET US PLAY THIS FOR FREE BY ALLOWING US TO BUY PLEX WITH ISK THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT! They could be like WOW and make u buy everything and pay to play instead EVE is free to download and they give u all the upgrades FREE!! SO STOP THE " WHINING " and yes this is coming from a toon with 31+ mil sp. TO THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITIES OF CREATING A GAME OF THIS CALIBER GO PLAY DARK ORBIT OR WOW
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Dog277
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Posted - 2010.11.26 11:51:00 -
[84]
AND YES I DO REALIZE I'M STILL A NOOBIE BY EVE STANDARDS THANK YOU
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:18:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: My Postman And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
Her brown nosing finally paid off!
Well, itŠs not over yet, as i said i will deside over the weekend.
ItŠs all about this plex for remap (which is obviously cancelled yet), microtransactions introducing (or not) and removal of learning skills, which makes me feel that eve is changing in a way i donŠt like.
As everybody else i have a drawn line, and when crossed itŠs time to take action.
@ Dog
ItŠs good to hear that you thank CCP for letting you play the game for free. Take out your main and your army of alts and mine/mission away for plex for endless hours.
Unfortunatly i have a life with work and GF included, and both are holding me back for doing as you do. Unfortunatly my credit card must solve this problem.
And as iŠm paying for this service/product itŠs up to me to know if i still need it.
Fake edit: Dark Orbit is on my "lookout list" anyway.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:23:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 13:25:04 Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 13:24:36
Originally by: My Postman And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
who's Jennifer Darling? Don't contract it to the wrong person! :o
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:35:00 -
[87]
Hey postman, youre so right man. And dont donate your stuff to little jenn. Shes the person who would deserve it last.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:43:00 -
[88]
OP,
Why are your learnings only at 4/4? If you had trained them early and are of the age and SP you claim they should be 5/4.
What hax did you use to avoid the advanced learnings pre-req of basic learning to 5?
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:47:00 -
[89]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 26/11/2010 13:52:12
Originally by: Lauren Hellfury OP,
Why are your learnings only at 4/4? If you had trained them early and are of the age and SP you claim they should be 5/4.
What hax did you use to avoid the advanced learnings pre-req of basic learning to 5?
Pre-Req is 4 not 5.
Focus
Though if it makes you feel any better, I also could have sworn it was 5 years back when I trained them. So my memory is really bad OR CCP changed the pre-req since that time.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:50:00 -
[90]
Originally by: JC Anderson
Originally by: Lauren Hellfury OP,
Why are your learnings only at 4/4? If you had trained them early and are of the age and SP you claim they should be 5/4.
What hax did you use to avoid the advanced learnings pre-req of basic learning to 5?
Pre-Req is 4 not 5.
Though if it makes you feel any better, I also could have sworn it was 5 years back when I trained them. So my memory is really bad OR CCP changed the pre-req since that time.
Correct, years back (2) the pre-req was 5. CCP changed it down to 4 as they have done with some other pre-reqs for some other skills.
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:51:00 -
[91]
Ive been here a long time an im liking the change.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 13:53:00 -
[92]
Ive been a ***got a long time an im liking the change.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.26 14:00:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Klatho Cron Ive been a ***got a long time an im liking the change.
now you're just being a kid |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr Dissonance Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.26 14:26:00 -
[94]
lol npc corp members are outraged in this thread |
Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.11.26 14:36:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 26/11/2010 08:41:23 Out with the old players..... I think that's the plan anyway though I an not for it, but cannot be against it. It does not matter what I think of it.
The old players are the ones who play in big fleet battles, and the clamor for more, and for fixing lag.
Few of the truly new players have been in large fleets and they know only of the game mechanics that support small fleets - that being the new scanning and the changes to other game mechanics. They don't know a "big fleet battle EvE".
Get rid of the people who want large fleet battles (that occur in 0.0 space and the participants are veterans) and they don't have to fix lag, lag that is caused by the new game mechanics for the new players.
my theory
new game mechanics will allow new players to fly ships used in big fleet battles much faster = ur theory is ******ed
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Riedle
Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances
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Posted - 2010.11.26 14:38:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Klatho Cron Ive been a ***got a long time an im liking the change.
I too enjoy hawt man-on-man action.
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Javajunky
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Posted - 2010.11.26 14:40:00 -
[97]
LoL'z to all you Sr. players in the game.
Suck it for ruining Remaps for Plex. Nice job on denial of potential dollars for development in improving the game.
Suck it again for b*tching about learning skills change.
Seriously, leave the game. For each one of you @ss clowns that dissappears, 5 new players will start playing the game because CCP will be do more to really improve the most assanine game mechanics.
I lol'z twice at the fact that you don't want your corp/alliance mates to have better skilling ability because it will benefit you in fleet fights you selfish prick.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:02:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:02:09 All i read here is: more, better, faster. Thats the wrong direction. Thats not EVE.
But keep whining and maybe someday we have a space wow. The thing you all are so desperate for.
@Grimpak: sorry
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr Dissonance Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:05:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:02:09 All i read here is: more, better, faster. Thats the wrong direction. Thats not EVE.
i lol'd |
Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:08:00 -
[100]
GOD..
EVE-O forums were nice once, but now it's just a WASTE of time. Some people here are totally not worth reading.
Get a clue, this is AWSOME change for everyone, except trolls.
Everyone who trained 5/5 did benefit from faster training, and now they are getting refunded ALL THAT SP. Everyone who trained them partially did get benefits, and are getting SP back.
Everyone hate learning skills... We had to go through it to play, but we don't need to make all the potential players (even friends) to go through that pointless wall.
Don't come here saying that the learning skills are a nice learning curve to filter players, because if it were, eve wouldnt have so many old newbies.
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:15:00 -
[101]
To the OP,
The debates over, the keep them lobby had their chance and did not put any genuine reason for keeping them forward.
Majority of the community wants them to go, I believe CCP will be glad to get rid of them.
It's no longer a matter of if they go, they are going.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:17:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:02:09 All i read here is: more, better, faster. Thats the wrong direction. Thats not EVE.
i lol'd
i lolŠd
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Jack Gilligan
1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:18:00 -
[103]
I've been around since 2007, which makes me a relative "noob" compared to the old farts who've been around since 2003 or 2004...
I can tell you that training learning skills damn near put me off this game completely. It was good advice from those who were in my first corp, and it paid off in the long run, but it is annoying to subscribe to a MMO and be able to do, well, NOTHING for weeks until you CAN train for stuff you want.
All of us who had learning skills trained got the benefit of having them for years. And we're not losing anything, we get the SP's back, PLUS generally faster training times. I never did bother to train the advanced learning skills to 5, so I actually am making out like a bandit on this change.
And, everyone needs to keep in mind that the longer EVE runs, the bigger the problem becomes of new players having a skill disadvantage to veteran players. This means that skill training has to become easier/some "cheat" has to happen over time to give new characters a head start. That is just reality, this game has to get new players to remain healthy, and periodic boosting of new toons is something everyone needs to accept.
Hell, I think this change makes it more likely I can talk some friends into getting into EVE, as they could be effectively flying in the "Drake Army" in under a month under the new system. Yeah, I still haven't quite accepted the idea of a Drake as a pvp ship either, but I digress. :)
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:19:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 15:21:07
Originally by: Forum Guy To the OP,
The debates over, the keep them lobby had their chance and did not put any genuine reason for keeping them forward.
Majority of the community wants them to go, I believe CCP will be glad to get rid of them.
It's no longer a matter of if they go, they are going.
Indeed. Although I believe the CSM voted in favour with just a small majority, 4 vs 3 I think. But they represent the playerbase so yes, the comunity has spoken. What CCP is concerned, we have enough clues that they wanted to get rid of it a lot earlier (better new player retention) but the way to go was a concern for them as they wondered if the vets wouldn't ragequit.
But it's over now, there's no way they're ever going to come back. Get used to it.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:20:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:23:30 No, plz let your friends where they are, if learnigs were really the criteria for them to play or not to play. Eve would be a better game if everyone who appreciates this change, would just leave.
And no its not a problem at all to get into eve even knowing the vets have 150 mio sp. You can fly a frig very fast and be usefull in it. Unlike every other game. Unlike every other game, in eve theres a relative small cap in regards of skilling one thing. If its V its V. No matter what. So youre as wrong as someone can be in this respect.
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Luminak Narz
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:22:00 -
[106]
mmmmmmmm...... veteran tears....... de-liciousssssss.......
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:24:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Klatho Cron No, plz let your friends where they are, if learnigs were really the criteria for them to play or not to play. Eve would be a better game if everyone who appreciates this change, would just leave.
You still here? My god man unsubscribe already. This change isn't going away. Do your mental health a favor and quit if you hate the game and people who play it so much. What are you a masochist sheesh!
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:25:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:26:23
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Originally by: Klatho Cron No, plz let your friends where they are, if learnigs were really the criteria for them to play or not to play. Eve would be a better game if everyone who appreciates this change, would just leave.
You still here? My god man unsubscribe already. This change isn't going away. Do your mental health a favor and quit if you hate the game and people who play it so much. What are you a masochist sheesh!
Thank you for caring.
edit: Luminak: Guys like you are the cancer in this world.
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Luminak Narz
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:36:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Klatho Cron
edit: Luminak: Guys like you are the cancer in this world.
Ahhhh... thank you. I plan to metastasize to every part of you gaming experience so that you just die and go away....
No, but really, Lighten up dude. After six months you won't even remember the learning skill were in the game. I can't, for the life of me understand why so many of you are blowing a gasket over this. Everyone trains the damn learning skills anyway. Maybe not to all 5's immediately, but eventually. Your getting your SP refunded, and now new players don't have to waste 2 months on the stupid learning skills. It's really a win-win.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:38:00 -
[110]
@ all the whiners in this thread...
QUICK...CALL THE WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tac-Ops Commander |
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:38:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:38:22 @luminak Actually most people hadnt done it properly. So they were kind of relevant, and made a difference.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:44:00 -
[112]
Originally by: John Mongrel Veteran Hell
mfw -
I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:46:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Forum Guy on 26/11/2010 15:46:07
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:38:22 @luminak Actually most people hadnt done it properly. So they were kind of relevant, and made a difference.
The problems they caused out weighed any slight train advantage and at the end of the day it would have been slight.
Would you really want to keep that slight training advantage at the cost of losing new players due to those learning skills?
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:53:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Forum Guy Edited by: Forum Guy on 26/11/2010 15:46:07
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:38:22 @luminak Actually most people hadnt done it properly. So they were kind of relevant, and made a difference.
The problems they caused out weighed any slight train advantage and at the end of the day it would have been slight.
Would you really want to keep that slight training advantage at the cost of losing new players due to those learning skills?
Hell yeah. Ask me anytime! We dont need more new players as we get now. EVEŠs growing ever since. The server cant handle even half the population we already got. As i mentioned somewhere else: if quality is above money, we dont need new players until 400 man fights are possible on a non reinforced node. Lag free i want to add..
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.26 15:58:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Forum Guy on 26/11/2010 16:01:09
Originally by: Klatho Cron
Originally by: Forum Guy Edited by: Forum Guy on 26/11/2010 15:46:07
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:38:22 @luminak Actually most people hadnt done it properly. So they were kind of relevant, and made a difference.
The problems they caused out weighed any slight train advantage and at the end of the day it would have been slight.
Would you really want to keep that slight training advantage at the cost of losing new players due to those learning skills?
Hell yeah. Ask me anytime! We dont need more new players as we get now. EVEŠs growing ever since. The server cant handle even half the population we already got. As i mentioned somewhere else: if quality is above money, we dont need new players until 400 man fights are possible on a non reinforced node. Lag free i want to add..
Well you just confirmed what I said awhile back about Vets probably not wanting new players to stay, because more players means more lag.
Edit: Not all vets of course only the keep them veterans.
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Zaratustra
People of Random Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.26 16:00:00 -
[116]
I smell elitist rage that they don't feel superior anymore.
-People with learning skills have 5 years of improved attributes over others
-Those SP you spent time learning are refunded so you can spend where you please which is an EXTRA advantage since you got bonus SP from Skillbooks for 5 years AND the extra SP instantly
-Skillbooks were basically a time sink and isk sink
-You're all talking like the skillbooks were the only thing that made this game complicated. Seriously? Learning 11 skills to get stuff faster is what's going to make or break this game for you?
Contract your stuff, including your tears and wallet contents, to Zaratustra. I'll give it a good non-elitist home.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.26 16:01:00 -
[117]
You didn't train the learning skills?
lol, your problem.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Luminak Narz
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:08:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Luminak Narz on 26/11/2010 18:09:12
Originally by: Klatho Cron
Originally by: Forum Guy Edited by: Forum Guy on 26/11/2010 15:46:07
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:38:22 @luminak Actually most people hadnt done it properly. So they were kind of relevant, and made a difference.
The problems they caused out weighed any slight train advantage and at the end of the day it would have been slight.
Would you really want to keep that slight training advantage at the cost of losing new players due to those learning skills?
Hell yeah. Ask me anytime! We dont need more new players as we get now. EVEŠs growing ever since. The server cant handle even half the population we already got. As i mentioned somewhere else: if quality is above money, we dont need new players until 400 man fights are possible on a non reinforced node. Lag free i want to add..
This is a very honest answer, and one that I bet many other long time players also agree with.
CCP: Take note of this. It is pointless trying to please these so called "bitter vets." They will not be pleased with any changes you decide to make, no matter how much your changes may enrich the game. And no seeing that they DON'T want you to increase your subscriber base, they really don't care about your financial success, and the ultimate longevity of the game. And what about their threats of quitting the game? Well, let's be honest about that too. They have NOWHERE to go. Are they going to start playing WoW, or FF XIV? Give me a break. They have too much identity wrapped up in playing the "smart" game, and think every other MMO is beneath them.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:11:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Klatho Cron Edited by: Klatho Cron on 26/11/2010 15:02:09 All i read here is: more, better, faster. Thats the wrong direction. Thats not EVE.
i lol'd
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Karl Sieger
Sieger Trade and Heavy Logistics
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:16:00 -
[120]
It's perfectly fair, because you didnt invest ~2-3 months of training to 5/5 so you don't deserve a full reimbursement. Seems like that increased training speed by 5/5 just wasn't worth it to you back then, why is it now?
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:19:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Karl Sieger It's perfectly fair, because you didnt invest ~2-3 months of training to 5/5 so you don't deserve a full reimbursement. Seems like that increased training speed by 5/5 just wasn't worth it to you back then, why is it now?
QFT!
If you like this sig click HERE. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:28:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 26/11/2010 18:29:23
Point is...it might be a harder to gank newbies in the future (i/d/k), since they can start training combat skills etc...right away, instead of just "learning skills" for the first month or so and we all know that no-talent noobs looking for easy killboard stats don't want that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tac-Ops Commander |
IoWalker
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:53:00 -
[123]
Wait so +5 's are now essentially "useless" ?? Just looking at the first page of this thread.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:02:00 -
[124]
Originally by: IoWalker Wait so +5 's are now essentially "useless" ?? Just looking at the first page of this thread.
+5s are now more a differentiator than ever before. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
IoWalker
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:07:00 -
[125]
so then that would make this game actually more ISK-intensive, as well as more PVP-averse... interesting.
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Aldor
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:08:00 -
[126]
Originally by: John Mongrel I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"?
I've been playing EVE since US launch. When I first started we didn't have these fancy t2 or t3 ships!1!1!1
These should be removed and EVE should be moved to the way it was when I was a new player!!!eleventyone!!!
It's called progress. Unless you're willing to pay more for your membership so CCP (a for-profit company) can make money then STFU or GTFO.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:09:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Luminak Narz
This is a very honest answer, and one that I bet many other long time players also agree with.
CCP: Take note of this. It is pointless trying to please these so called "bitter vets." They will not be pleased with any changes you decide to make, no matter how much your changes may enrich the game. And no seeing that they DON'T want you to increase your subscriber base, they really don't care about your financial success, and the ultimate longevity of the game. And what about their threats of quitting the game? Well, let's be honest about that too. They have NOWHERE to go. Are they going to start playing WoW, or FF XIV? Give me a break. They have too much identity wrapped up in playing the "smart" game, and think every other MMO is beneath them.
Im always honest. Whats the the point of even talking if you arent ? Second, im in no way a vet. No way :) My main has less than 20mio sp. Im not in an 0.0 ally, and im not regulary part of big fights. I have an alt who i have to push through learnings atm. Oh wait.. But anyway im probably in no way that kind of player you expected.
The rest.. If big fleet fights in 0.0 arent possible in a reliable way, THE one main thing which makes eve unique doesnt work. This is what this game is all about. Remember im not part of that show, but anyway its obvious that this is the way how its meant to be. Even the the casual gamer should see this.
Quote: ..and the ultimate longevity of the game..
Youre dead wrong. Exactly this is the one and only thing that matters. Ever.
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Pyro Ninja
Gallente Global Gang Bangers Two Inch Terror
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:10:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Boinz
Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
Post Facts or GTFO.
Vote here on how you feel
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Anslo
First Flying Wing Inc ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:12:00 -
[129]
Aaaaw the vets made cause us carebears get it easy not :) Get over it and get out, you're not needed here anymore. Thank you CCP for finally giving love to the PvE and new crowd. Hopefully this will bring in a lot more customers and investors which, in turn, will come back to the community for better expansions, server speeds and more. To all the vets hating this expansion, either adapt or leave, no one cares what you want EVE to be :)
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Captain Merkin
Minmatar Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:29:00 -
[130]
personally I cant wait for this whole thing to happen! those sp will put me well ahead in my training schedule!
I have been here since beta and really am not going to cry about this in any way, absolutely brilliant!
I am also in favour of eve keeping the 100% training speed bonus alongside all of this, new players need a leg up and its not like they can compete easily with your 57million points in mining or whatever it is, end of the day eve needs new blood to keep it ticking over.. not just moaning old farts like the rest of us, do it however you like ccp.
Really cant wait! these points will put me in a carrier almost overnight which is something I only just decided I want after all these years.
balls to complainers
"Ninjaprints"
Affordable photographic artwork, products and services. |
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.11.26 19:48:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Captain Merkin personally I cant wait for this whole thing to happen! those sp will put me well ahead in my training schedule!
I have been here since beta and really am not going to cry about this in any way, absolutely brilliant!
I am also in favour of eve keeping the 100% training speed bonus alongside all of this, new players need a leg up and its not like they can compete easily with your 57million points in mining or whatever it is, end of the day eve needs new blood to keep it ticking over.. not just moaning old farts like the rest of us, do it however you like ccp.
Really cant wait! these points will put me in a carrier almost overnight which is something I only just decided I want after all these years.
balls to complainers
QFT.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tac-Ops Commander |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.26 20:01:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 26/11/2010 20:02:48
Originally by: Anslo Aaaaw the vets mad cause us carebears get it easy now :) Get over it and get out, you're not needed here anymore. Thank you CCP for finally giving love to the PvE'ers and new crowd. Hopefully, this will bring in a lot more customers and investors which, in turn, will come back to the community for better expansions, server upgrades and more. To all the vets hating this expansion, either adapt or leave, no one cares what you want EVE to be :)
Nice troll post.. but please explain how you can pull carebears into this? Just doesn't make any sense..
PS: There is always meeting twice in live. Laugh and be happy as much as you want about this now you prick, it will bite you in the ass in the future.
Uh.. uncensored word. kewl. New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
Ramark
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Posted - 2010.11.26 20:54:00 -
[133]
ah yes, the tears of the ultra elitist emo ragers who now feel "betrayed" by their game company for "selling out".
WAAAAAY better than carebear tears
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:19:00 -
[134]
More those people who've learnt nothing and met no one in however long they've played the game crying.
Other than that element everyone else seems over the moon, a tangeable load of SP to spend really does feel like a Christmas present, then a nice pile of tweaks that people have been begging for being delivered next week.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:33:00 -
[135]
Originally by: My Postman
@ Alara
Again wow, your memory is serving you well, at least a bit better than mine, i nearly had to google (again) before remembering. But at least you made me smile a bit when having tears from anger in my eyes.
Oh I laughed so hard at this .. Are you a troll or is this serious? Good grief child, pull your panties up.
Isn't it funny how incredibly INCREDIBLY childish the whines about this are, from the very people saying "EVE is meant to be hard, it's meant to tough and newbs need to learn this!" the biggest hypocritical WHINERS in this forum at this point.
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Arakash Mond
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:41:00 -
[136]
Quote: Isn't it funny how incredibly INCREDIBLY childish the whines about this are, from the very people saying "EVE is meant to be hard, it's meant to tough and newbs need to learn this!" the biggest hypocritical WHINERS in this forum at this point.
What's even more funny is that the vast majority of whining posts on this subject are from the people who actually got what they want. Which is quite revealing as to the type of players such a move appeals to. Let the handful of unhappy players complain a bit. Their accounts will expire (mine ends tomorrow) and then they will be gone and the game will be yours. I mean go play the game already! Not mining in low-sec anymore
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:44:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Arakash Mond
Quote: Isn't it funny how incredibly INCREDIBLY childish the whines about this are, from the very people saying "EVE is meant to be hard, it's meant to tough and newbs need to learn this!" the biggest hypocritical WHINERS in this forum at this point.
What's even more funny is that the vast majority of whining posts on this subject are from the people who actually got what they want. Which is quite revealing as to the type of players such a move appeals to. Let the handful of unhappy players complain a bit. Their accounts will expire (mine ends tomorrow) and then they will be gone and the game will be yours. I mean go play the game already! Not mining in low-sec anymore
You stuffz pleaze givez now?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tac-Ops Commander |
SenshiMaru
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Posted - 2010.11.27 01:53:00 -
[138]
I really hope this is a troll...if it is, you guys got trolled hard.
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.11.27 02:27:00 -
[139]
I want my kids back!!! -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
Roga Dracor
Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2010.11.27 02:34:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Captain Merkin personally I cant wait for this whole thing to happen! those sp will put me well ahead in my training schedule!
I have been here since beta and really am not going to cry about this in any way, absolutely brilliant!
I am also in favour of eve keeping the 100% training speed bonus alongside all of this, new players need a leg up and its not like they can compete easily with your 57million points in mining or whatever it is, end of the day eve needs new blood to keep it ticking over.. not just moaning old farts like the rest of us, do it however you like ccp.
Really cant wait! these points will put me in a carrier almost overnight which is something I only just decided I want after all these years.
balls to complainers
Exactly...
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Wen Jaibao
PAX AUGUSTA
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Posted - 2010.11.27 02:38:00 -
[141]
I welcome this change with open arms, playing since 2006.
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Clyde ElectraGlide
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.11.27 02:43:00 -
[142]
I've been playing since December of 05 and I think this is one of the best decisions CCP's ever made for the game.
Vets/almost vets who think this is awesome, report in!
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.27 02:51:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Culmen on 27/11/2010 02:51:53 Malcanis' Law: Any change meant to benefit new players will end up benefiting older players more.
Roll up the alts, it's easier then ever. Understanding attributes will allow you to further optimize your skill learning by opening up the other two character slots. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 03:36:00 -
[144]
*Puts Flame suit on.*
1.) I am happy for the sp refund. 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game. 3.) I liked the learning skills. So those who say everybody hated them is a LIAR. 4.) I let my wow subby lapse because i honestly thought Eve was different. This dumbing down bs is getting old. 5.) I am glad that sheep are happy and getting everything they want by crying. Waahh..oops sheep Baaaawwaaaah. 6.) Will i stay and play sure. Am i allowed to voice my opinion? You betcha. Even tho the rabid sheep will tear me a new one. 7.) Anybody have any marshmellows for the flames i'm about to recieve? Yours Misha.
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.27 03:41:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *Puts Flame suit on.*
1.) I am happy for the sp refund. 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game. 3.) I liked the learning skills. So those who say everybody hated them is a LIAR. 4.) I let my wow subby lapse because i honestly thought Eve was different. This dumbing down bs is getting old. 5.) I am glad that sheep are happy and getting everything they want by crying. Waahh..oops sheep Baaaawwaaaah. 6.) Will i stay and play sure. Am i allowed to voice my opinion? You betcha. Even tho the rabid sheep will tear me a new one. 7.) Anybody have any marshmellows for the flames i'm about to recieve? Yours Misha.
I sure as hell hope its a t2 suit
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Guess what I'm wearing.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 03:47:00 -
[146]
Naw Boinz. Just a normal one. *passes some marshmellows over*
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Alt Tabbed
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Posted - 2010.11.27 03:53:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *Puts Flame suit on.*
1.) I am happy for the sp refund. 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game. 3.) I liked the learning skills. So those who say everybody hated them is a LIAR. 4.) I let my wow subby lapse because i honestly thought Eve was different. This dumbing down bs is getting old. 5.) I am glad that sheep are happy and getting everything they want by crying. Waahh..oops sheep Baaaawwaaaah. 6.) Will i stay and play sure. Am i allowed to voice my opinion? You betcha. Even tho the rabid sheep will tear me a new one. 7.) Anybody have any marshmellows for the flames i'm about to recieve? Yours Misha.
Very good points.
Originally by: Redshift XIII
Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.27 04:43:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *Puts Flame suit on.*
1.) I am happy for the sp refund. 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game. 3.) I liked the learning skills. So those who say everybody hated them is a LIAR. 4.) I let my wow subby lapse because i honestly thought Eve was different. This dumbing down bs is getting old. 5.) I am glad that sheep are happy and getting everything they want by crying. Waahh..oops sheep Baaaawwaaaah. 6.) Will i stay and play sure. Am i allowed to voice my opinion? You betcha. Even tho the rabid sheep will tear me a new one. 7.) Anybody have any marshmellows for the flames i'm about to recieve? Yours Misha.
The flame storm gets hotter the longer it's delay. Good points delay flaming longer.
Get ready for some singed eyebrows because those are all very good points. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
oldmanst4r
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.27 04:49:00 -
[149]
Originally by: John Mongrel It isn't fair! I are want noobs to suffer too!!11!!
Yeah, wtf ever. Life isn't fair, and personally I'm glad to get my 2 million sp in learning refunded.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Luminos
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:00:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game.
If you're that committed to making EvE an overall smarter place, you could always just leave.
But seriously though, your points are either wrong or irrelevant. Except for the one about being able to voice your opinion.
And the flaming one I guess.
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Opertone
Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:59:00 -
[151]
I had most lvl 5 skills in training done on all my accounts... I was superior, now I am like everyone else out there.
CCP next wrong move is to take gunnery away, and add +10 to damage holy necklace, which only costs 2 plex to have.
and finally, mining and industry is stupid too... Let NPCs drop gold and other NPCs sell equipment.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.11.27 10:21:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Clyde ElectraGlide I've been playing since December of 05 and I think this is one of the best decisions CCP's ever made for the game.
Vets/almost vets who think this is awesome, report in!
I'm mostly indifferent to removing them. On one hand they did help off over the years. And on the other, they shouldn't have added them to the game in the first place.
In the end they've already more than paid off for those of us that have been playing eve long enough. Why are so many people so up in arms over removing them from the game? At least you'll have a chunk of sp that you can tpss into something useful.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2010.11.27 10:26:00 -
[153]
So what I say to the OP...new players over time will have in the skills department less of a disadvantage then the early players. It is not like they will ever catch up fully, or overtake you in skill points!
Wasn't the game worth playing before, now you know players that start now have an easier time? If so, rage quit, else shut up and continue to enjoy the game. I am perfectly certain someone will want to have your stuff!
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 10:52:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Forum Guy on 27/11/2010 10:52:32
Originally by: Opertone I had most lvl 5 skills in training done on all my accounts... I was superior, now I am like everyone else out there.
CCP next wrong move is to take gunnery away, and add +10 to damage holy necklace, which only costs 2 plex to have.
and finally, mining and industry is stupid too... Let NPCs drop gold and other NPCs sell equipment.
*yawn*
I'm sure you felt superior in your own mind, but I doubt you were superior in anyone elses.
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Brianna Bloodfang
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:06:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Arakash Mond
Quote: Isn't it funny how incredibly INCREDIBLY childish the whines about this are, from the very people saying "EVE is meant to be hard, it's meant to tough and newbs need to learn this!" the biggest hypocritical WHINERS in this forum at this point.
What's even more funny is that the vast majority of whining posts on this subject are from the people who actually got what they want. Which is quite revealing as to the type of players such a move appeals to. Let the handful of unhappy players complain a bit. Their accounts will expire (mine ends tomorrow) and then they will be gone and the game will be yours. I mean go play the game already! Not mining in low-sec anymore
That's what im waiting for. I'll be watching every single one to see if they carry out their "threats".
And if you think removing ONE pointless complexity "dumbs down" this game, step back and actually LOOK at the game.
Im 100% Sure this is a case of "baaaaaaw, i (in my own head) was superior, i am elite, but mean ole CCP took that away from me!!!111! baaaaaaaaaw"
What ever happened to Playing a game for...oh...you know...Fun?
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:10:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Alt Tabbed
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *Puts Flame suit on.*
1.) I am happy for the sp refund. 2.) I am not happy with the dumbing down of the game. 3.) I liked the learning skills. So those who say everybody hated them is a LIAR. 4.) I let my wow subby lapse because i honestly thought Eve was different. This dumbing down bs is getting old. 5.) I am glad that sheep are happy and getting everything they want by crying. Waahh..oops sheep Baaaawwaaaah. 6.) Will i stay and play sure. Am i allowed to voice my opinion? You betcha. Even tho the rabid sheep will tear me a new one. 7.) Anybody have any marshmellows for the flames i'm about to recieve? Yours Misha.
Very good points.
Not very good points at all.
To Misha, The games not being dumbed down anyone bright enough can see that they were totally unnecessary from the start.
I've not seen anyone say everyone hated them, if they did this arguement would have not gone on for as long as it did.
Most things change with time, if you can't handle change you are going to have a tough time with life. This is not dumbing down the game anyway, it's just removing a time-sink, but it seems some people like time-sinks I guess no surprise there really.
Eve is different to WoW, always will be.
We are not the sheep we are not following a bad game design blindly. Seems to me it's you that's doing all the crying.
Not keen on marshmellows.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:17:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Misha M''Liena on 27/11/2010 14:18:45 Not very good points at all.
To Misha, The games not being dumbed down anyone bright enough can see that they were totally unnecessary from the start.
I've not seen anyone say everyone hated them, if they did this arguement would have not gone on for as long as it did.
Most things change with time, if you can't handle change you are going to have a tough time with life. This is not dumbing down the game anyway, it's just removing a time-sink, but it seems some people like time-sinks I guess no surprise there really.
Eve is different to WoW, always will be.
We are not the sheep we are not following a bad game design blindly. Seems to me it's you that's doing all the crying.
Not keen on marshmellows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First off. Forum guy, You seem pretty intelligent. For somebody with a closed mind. *Sry still on first cup of java...its a compliment of sorts* It's your opinion the eve isn't being dumbed down. To me it is in a sense. I'd better explain. Don't want to be misunderstood. The Dumbing down part to ME is taking the skills out. (I said i like the refund) It doesn't matter to me about the *learning skills* ---->>>>>>> IT's the Learning Process!<<<----. The skills helped people plan and what to do. Yes i realize everybody is on a semi even keel now ecept with those with sp in the millions. They have a advantage of knowledge and eperience. (and keyboards that work freaking Xxxxx key). That is where i am coming from. Now as for the *wow* Yes i realize 2 diff games. I started on ult online Years and years ago. Life? Son i'm 48 be 49 in jan.
Ok Maybe the sheep was used a bit generally (one L or 2? hmm) But i won't take it back as Most are. I never said It was a bad game design. Maybe somebody else. Crying? Naw Just stating my opinion :)
*Hands ForumGUy a coke or if legal drinking age a pitcher of long island ice tea.*
Yours Misha.
Ps. Finally got t2 flame suit trained! Cool a guiness kegs in here!!
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:25:00 -
[158]
>My faces when people, especially bitter vets are whining that something is not fair (this is EVE FFS?)
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:29:00 -
[159]
Ummm Where in my post did i say or imply that its unfair?
Yours Misha.
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:33:00 -
[160]
I was referring to the OP.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:41:00 -
[161]
Opps sorry Teinyhr my bad. *Passes toasted Misha marshmellows and cookies over*
Yours misha.
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Laarz
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:51:00 -
[162]
Well i feel its time i reply to one of these many posts on the same subject.
Personally I feel this is the worst decision CCP has ever made, not because it directly affects me or because new players get it "too" easy.
I never thought there was anything wrong with the learning skills and i feel they added abit more complexity and diversity to the game. I only ever trained the secondary skills to lvl 4 and with the changes i will have higher attributes and train skills quicker but i dont care much for that and im not too excited about gettin 1.8M SP's to spend.This be the only time I have disagreed with something that CCP has decided to do. Eve truly will change forever when this goes through but personally I think its a change for the worse.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:54:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena *snip* The Dumbing down part to ME is taking the skills out. (I said i like the refund) It doesn't matter to me about the *learning skills* ---->>>>>>> IT's the Learning Process!<<<----. The skills helped people plan and what to do. *snip*
Fine in theory, but praxis showed problems: 1) people desperately want to catch up with older players SP-wise, as they see this as their only chance of being able to compete, thus they sat instation, trained them from the start and gave up on the game - CCP lost INCOME 2) learning skills did nothing for your ability to do use ingame gear, it just made skill training faster - CCP could have got a problem with that, but well, guess what, over the years we got so many skills that there will be no more fear, that anyone will reach all skills at lvl5 anytime soon (or ever) 3) CCP didn't wanted those learning skills anyway 4) you don't learn anything by sitting on station or use your noobship the 100st time - you learn by DOING - now they can do (and do also wrong) right from the start 5) taking skills out of a game that let you train fast doesn't dumb it down. WTZ did. The new probing System did. New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:02:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Misha M'Liena First off. Forum guy, You seem pretty intelligent. For somebody with a closed mind.
I could quite as easily say you're the one with the closed mind.
My mind is actually fairly open, which is why I asked the keep them lobby to give a genuine reason for keeping them, but none were put forward.
The keep them arguements seem to centre around the individual.
The remove them arguements do not just centre around the individual, they are considering other people too, which is a big plus in my book.
Originally by: Misha M'Liena
The Dumbing down part to ME is taking the skills out. (I said i like the refund) It doesn't matter to me about the *learning skills* ---->>>>>>> IT's the Learning Process!<<<----. The skills helped people plan and what to do. Yes i realize everybody is on a semi even keel now ecept with those with sp in the millions. They have a advantage of knowledge and eperience. (and keyboards that work freaking Xxxxx key). That is where i am coming from.
The learning process does not suffer with the removal of the learning skills, it's effectively unchanged. You still have to plan which direction your character will go in and how to remap. Big difference is people will no longer have to waste 2 - 3 months learning skills that are unnecessary. The fact that nearly everyone learnt those learning skills near the start makes them pointless.
Originally by: Misha M'Liena
Now as for the *wow* Yes i realize 2 diff games. I started on ult online Years and years ago. Life? Son i'm 48 be 49 in jan.
It would be biologically impossible for me to be your son if that is your age. I know you did not mean it in that context.
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:06:00 -
[165]
Ok Tres. I agree with most. But when i started i didn't wait in a station training learning skills. I was new. I went exploring. I went and did tutorials and learned. Yes the learning skills were plugged in after i learned about them. *shrugs* But i was mining. I was doing tutorials. AND i was training other skills i needed. Example. What do you mean i need frigate trained to get a cruiser? So i trained it to get said cruiser skill.
This is what is confusing me. Just cause we were training the learning skills. Doesn't mean we can't train others skills too.
Maybe i'm just a old drunk that doesn't get it.
Yours Misha.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:12:00 -
[166]
Originally by: John Mongrel Hello all,
Yes, this is me whining. This is me hating the new changes and looking for people who agree. This is me being a grumpy old veteran EVE Player envy of the new players getting it all handed to them on a silver platter. - Therefore no need to reconfirm this. I'm well aware of it.
That is all.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Commoner
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:31:00 -
[167]
Early 05 toon reporting in who is very glad this change was made!
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Ava Starfire
Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:52:00 -
[168]
Due to training three characters on one account, my "main" (IE, this one) has a whopping 26m SP. Learning skills benefited all three characters, 5/4 on this one, and now will benefit me again, by being extra SP I can allocate to something else. Where, exactly, is the drawback in this for us?
PS. There is a LOT more to playing EVE than how many SP you have.
Dirty Little Slave, reporting for duty! |
Tom Gerard
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:56:00 -
[169]
OP is right the rest of you are trollin'
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:58:00 -
[170]
I put some more thought into this last night and realized one thing. For true "vets" this is a good thing. This will bring in more competition for PvP. This will encourage more players to join and help balance the market better. This will allow the training of alts on second and third accounts for vets like CCP wants. This...is awesome.
Sig.Learning skills vote. |
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.29 11:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 13:34:35
Originally by: My Postman And no, you canŠt get my stuff, if quitting Jennifer Darling will get all, as she/he asked most in various threads.
who's Jennifer Darling? Don't contract it to the wrong person! :o
Sorry for the Typo Jennifer!
Over the weekend i unsubbed my two alt accounts so this is the last remining account holding all the stuff.
Your chances of getting a lot of stuff (and several billions) still remain 50/50 i would say by now. Every single line i read about this s*** makes me wanting to unsub this last account more.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.29 11:31:00 -
[172]
Originally by: My Postman Sorry for the Typo Jennifer!
Over the weekend i unsubbed my two alt accounts so this is the last remining account holding all the stuff.
Your chances of getting a lot of stuff (and several billions) still remain 50/50 i would say by now. Every single line i read about this s*** makes me wanting to unsub this last account more.
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but why not play on, gameplay wise nothing has changed much; if the learning skills had never existed I bet you'd have been just as happy with EVE.
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Terrigal
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Posted - 2010.11.29 11:46:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Terrigal on 29/11/2010 11:47:28 To the Op your're right in some regards but you're wrong about learning skills these shouldve been removed as soon as CCP started introducing more and more specialised ships and the training that goes with it.
I've 2 chars both with 5/4 in learning skills both characters are nearly at 50mil sp and both are 6 months off being 3 years old so either you quit at some stage or you did quite get it, for a 5 yo toon you should have 80mil sp not 57mil as you stated.
However it does peave me off as ive 2.2mil in sp for learning 5/4 so im being robbed by CCP for the loss of 400k sp i can imagine how peaved someone with 5/5 is right now and not to mention the time it took to acuire these skills.
Also to the OP dont worry CCP is dumbing down the game as i heard a rumour that their introducing micro transactions, i've no idea as to how, what or when, and my thought on this is itll be even more new player crap.
For sale SP booster only 1.6bil but itll reduce 5 months in training per year is my guess. |
My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:16:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/11/2010 11:36:57
Originally by: My Postman Sorry for the Typo Jennifer!
Over the weekend i unsubbed my two alt accounts so this is the last remining account holding all the stuff.
Your chances of getting a lot of stuff (and several billions) still remain 50/50 i would say by now. Every single line i read about this s*** makes me wanting to unsub this last account more.
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but why not play on, gameplay wise nothing has changed much; if the learning skills had never existed I bet you'd have been just as happy with EVE.
And where will you go anyway, there's nothing much like EVE around, with or without learning skills.
Well, Jennifer i think gamplay IS changing, slowly but still changing imo. And i feel itŠs taking the wrong direction.
As iŠm not very much with this "cold, harsh bla bla" community, i felt that this is not a game with "instant gratification", and actions you take do actually have an impact on your wallet/reputation/e-peen.
Now (as you might know me from forums as well) there are many threads about plex-for-remap, intoducing microtransactions, and other "features" dumbling this game down.
This makes me feel all CCP is thinking about fattening THEIR wallet by luring more new players into the game. Removing the learning skill tree is the first step.
This could have been made by improving the UI, fighting the lag, improving graphics and so on, but not by giving "instant gratification".
Furthermore this change does not affect newbies allone, but all other "older" players too who haveŠnt botherd with learning skills.
Still my point stands.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:21:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Terrigal <snip>
However it does peave me off as ive 2.2mil in sp for learning 5/4 so im being robbed by CCP for the loss of 400k sp i can imagine how peaved someone with 5/5 is right now and not to mention the time it took to acuire these skills.
<snip>
How exactly is CCP robbing you of 400k SP?
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Freya Gleamingstar
Amarr Trust Doesn't Rust Supremacy.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:50:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Freya Gleamingstar on 29/11/2010 12:52:00 Can only see positive points with this for vets:
1) We've essentially had some SP's banked for us, trained at likely our best attribute, while we were (years ago) too young and too stupid to know how to spend them properly.
2) Opportunity thus to now spend the points wisely, or on skills that we'd never have specced attributes to (Leadership, Corp Management, hell even Social for PvErs) Moreso, opportunity to re-spend these points on advanced skills rather than basic ones.
3) On December 15th, seriously, is nobody savouring the chance to go out there and PWN all the newbies suddenly skilled for T2 fitted BS and Capitals, with no idea whatsoever how to use them? Cmon people. Skills are no substitute for experience. Enjoy your enhanced KB ratio's.
Remember for younger players they will only be spending this SP to get prerequisites for advanced skills, not buying up advanced skills to any appreciable levels.
[color=#FF0000]{SGX}<AM> Curmudgeon and Veteran Sabre Rattler[/color]
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:59:00 -
[177]
Nerf Achura, nerf Achura.. oh.. wrong thread.
As someone who has a top 10 Achura and a top 3 Jin Mei on EVEboard in total SP I'm really glad to see that the learning skills finally will be gone. Yes it will be a slight speed reduction but tbh, it wasn't that long ago we got a massive speed increase thanks to the neural remaps.
To celebrate the removals of the learning skills I will get a new account on the 14th. It will be really strange to actually do useful skills from the get go. Oh and the side effect that we don't need to waste clone space for learning skills is most welcome.
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Chronos Chi
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Posted - 2010.11.29 13:29:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Chronos Chi on 29/11/2010 13:31:09
Originally by: Freya Gleamingstar Edited by: Freya Gleamingstar on 29/11/2010 12:52:00 Can only see positive points with this for vets:
1) We've essentially had some SP's banked for us, trained at likely our best attribute, while we were (years ago) too young and too stupid to know how to spend them properly.
2) Opportunity thus to now spend the points wisely, or on skills that we'd never have specced attributes to (Leadership, Corp Management, hell even Social for PvErs) Moreso, opportunity to re-spend these points on advanced skills rather than basic ones.
3) On December 15th, seriously, is nobody savouring the chance to go out there and PWN all the newbies suddenly skilled for T2 fitted BS and Capitals, with no idea whatsoever how to use them? Cmon people. Skills are no substitute for experience. Enjoy your enhanced KB ratio's.
Remember for younger players they will only be spending this SP to get prerequisites for advanced skills, not buying up advanced skills to any appreciable levels.
this is the most correct post i have read on this subject so far, basically us old players have nothing to fear. If your worried that an extra 5.6mil or whatever sp is gonna buy newbie'ish, in the non derogatory sense, characters a shed load of game experience, contacts, and tactical knowledge then you really are playing the wrong game.
We all have sp in skills we shouldn't really have bothered training. Christ I have mining 5 and stuff like that that I wish I hadn't bothered training haven't mined properly since 2005. The amount of SP I wasted on stuff you could give to a new character and they would be a half decent fleet tackler and I'd still be able to enjoy doing what I enjoy doing in EvE.
Vets and old characters are always gonna be ahead of the game not only in SP but in everything EvE has to offer because we have seen and done things newbies only can dream of when they undock and see the stars for the first time.
And honestly as a old player I havent really, like a lot of the so called Vets, even scratched the surface of what EvE has to offer as a player even after almost 7 years ( I might just be a little slow on the uptake but I bet the previous statement is almost correct )
TL:DR Just get over it, its happening tomorrow, I'm pretty non plus'ed about it happening, I/we cant stop it from happening just carry on as you where.
Chronos (Jan 2004 100m+ SP)
Edited for bad grammer
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.29 13:57:00 -
[179]
rofl how is it dumbing down?
What is complex about putting your API into EVEMon, creating a skillplan and letting it tell you which Learning Skills to train for maximum efficiency?
****ing whining pricks.
[html]http://skilltrainingcomplete.com/users/flair/1417.html[/html] |
Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:13:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain rofl how is it dumbing down?
What is complex about putting your API into EVEMon, creating a skillplan and letting it tell you which Learning Skills to train for maximum efficiency?
****ing whining pricks.
Well said.
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:19:00 -
[181]
VEt here, liking the change, really irratates me when people compare this adults game with wow, a kids game.
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nartela
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:30:00 -
[182]
Edited by: nartela on 29/11/2010 14:31:54 another good move by ccp in my opinion, another victory against the elitest gits who think that just because they started the game sooner they should be given even more. why shouldnt ccp work towards getting more players its there fricking game, you dont like it then jog on. the more whiny gits that leave the better, advancment is never a bad thing.
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Javajunky
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:00:00 -
[183]
Dumbasses, don't realize this is a solid business decision and Eve needs to make more money to grow and survive in a competitive landscape.
The metric you need to watch is not the whiners who leave the game.
The metric you need to watch is the number of trial accounts that remain in the game. That in a nutshell is all that should matter to everyone, this in no way makes the game easier. This removes a barrier for new players to get into more aspects of the game besides running courier missions for the first month while learning skills get done.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:08:00 -
[184]
Originally by: nartela elitest gits who think that just because they started the game sooner they should be given even more.
No the VETS (like me) can be a bit frustrated because newbs are getting to cut corner that were unavoidable to us.
We dont expect to be GIVEN somthing, its a little upsetting when somthing once that was worked hard for, or took alot of time is now non existance.
Vets are still ahead and will remain ahead, I for one do not have an issue but im sensitive to those tho do think they have been 'robbed' a little.
Its like being abused as a child (or some other horrific unpleasnt, growth imparing, memory) and getting over it, then be unhappy when others dont have the same issues.
Im glad newbs wont have to suffer this stupid irrational pain, more newbs in ships they dont know how to use, for me to blow up frankly.
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Joel McBeth
Caldari GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:29:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Joel McBeth on 29/11/2010 15:29:33 So, should CCP retroactively give you SP because you didn't want train the learning skills to 5/5? Is that what you're asking? Cause I didn't care enough to read your whole post.
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nartela
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:16:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: nartela elitest gits who think that just because they started the game sooner they should be given even more.
No the VETS (like me) can be a bit frustrated because newbs are getting to cut corner that were unavoidable to us.
We dont expect to be GIVEN somthing, its a little upsetting when somthing once that was worked hard for, or took alot of time is now non existance.
Vets are still ahead and will remain ahead, I for one do not have an issue but im sensitive to those tho do think they have been 'robbed' a little.
Its like being abused as a child (or some other horrific unpleasnt, growth imparing, memory) and getting over it, then be unhappy when others dont have the same issues.
Im glad newbs wont have to suffer this stupid irrational pain, more newbs in ships they dont know how to use, for me to blow up frankly.
sorry was early in the morning and a bit ****ed off when i wrote that, what i meant to say is that its not a big change and it needed to be done to improve the game in the long run. people say that training the learning skills was a choice, but really its no choice at alll upon starting the game your told by almost evry1 to train them and have almost 0 progressioon when first playing. this change will allow ne players to actualy play eve as soon as they start, instead of having to wait a month for learning skills.
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DDemon
Volatile Instability PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:31:00 -
[187]
Hi, I've got close to 90mil sp, So I consider myself a vet.
My opinion on this matter? FINALLY OMFG ABOUT TIME %$#@$%#@!!!!11! My opinion about people complaining about this dummying the game down?
How on earth would removing a time sink, a 3month time sink dumb down the game?? Because thats what it was, a time sink.
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:34:00 -
[188]
Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:36:00 -
[189]
What a bunch of mewling candyasses.
Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school.
Infants. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:58:00 -
[190]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school.
Ok, I used to walk 2 miles through the snow to get to the bus stop to get on the bus to get to school, but the bus was always broke dwon so we had to push it to the school, in our bare feet, uphill. Plus the Bus had no wheels!
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Gallians
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:06:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school.
Ok, I used to walk 2 miles through the snow to get to the bus stop to get on the bus to get to school, but the bus was always broke dwon so we had to push it to the school, in our bare feet, uphill. Plus the Bus had no wheels!
You forgot to mention how you now oppose fixing the bus because pushing it every morning builds character.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:32:00 -
[192]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey What a bunch of mewling candyasses.
Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school.
Infants.
To be fair, I lived about two miles from the middle and high schools, there were no free busses since the town was so small, and we rarely closed for snow. Not sure if it was uphill both ways though :)
A better Eve example would be 15 KILOMETERS! TO EVERYTHING! etc etc etc. ;)
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Cataca
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:50:00 -
[193]
I seriously dont get why some vets are so scared about new players heaving a faster start (or not being scared away by the incredibly stupid idea to train stuff to train faster). They will be able to train basic support skills and a frig to a half decent level with the training bonus instead, big deal.
And it doesnt make you "hardened" that you had to "fight" for your training skills and "didnt get them handed on a silver platter". It makes you look like a little schoolgirl, whining cause they have it easier. HTFU, as you guys would say.
also, mmmmh vet tears, must be the same as old wine, it seems that much better
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Ehdward
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:04:00 -
[194]
CCP should stop making their game better. We don't want more people coming into our private internet spaceship club.
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Maria Martillo
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:51:00 -
[195]
this is not a big move, but one of many (some of them good indeed)done by CCP in order to get big numbers.
Only time will tell, but EvE "was" a niche game.The Risk that CCP is facing may be to make an easier, less hostile and quick game...
But, in a game of this kind, the easier you get it, the easier you get bored. The sensation of hard but satisfaying objectives is getting loss
so, at the end...more people standing less time in game, cause they get bored because is more difficult to satisfy them again and again whith shiny toys..
will see....
P.S. In fact, this is NOT a whine, only a vision of how things can evolve. Growing in bussines is not easy, sometimes less is more, CCP is focusing in hear the youngest players who are seeking insta-satisfaction in order to make bigger numbers.
hope they are not wrong in the long run...the higer you climb, the harder you fall
Seeing new games maked by so small companies, like perpetuum, with the "old eve" philosophy, it could make things harder, at the end, for the new Eve.
- yeaahh, my english sucks, but i don't care....
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Sieges
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:07:00 -
[196]
I have all of mine to 5/4 and am looking forward to reallocating those SPs to some fun stuff.
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Uncle Fester
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:31:00 -
[197]
Bitter vets will always be bitter vets, change is welcome in my book.
So what if noobs get a helping hand with skills, its not like they have contacts vets have, the markets they might have cornered, experience leading hundreds into combat, bpo libraries and what ever other shinnies we hoard.
But bitter vets will always be bitter vets.
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Captain Mung
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Posted - 2010.11.29 23:11:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Captain Mung on 29/11/2010 23:12:50 Good god the amount of whining because of removal of learning skills is ridiculous.
The whiners need to get the sand out of their vagina and realize EVERYONE benefits from this change.
The people who will see a reduction in training speed will at most, see a 72 SP/hr reduction, which at a MINIMUM would take 3.65 years training ONLY skills that the two attributes you've remapped to maximize as primary and secondary to see any deficit in SP (Minimum being: ONLY had two attributes at 5/5, and Learning at 5, all rest at 0/0, meaning an SP refund of ~2.3m). That 3.65 years at 2700 SP/hr (the new upper limit) translates into 86.4m SP.
If we assume a character has remapped for Per/Wil (for an old limit of 2772 SP/hr and a new limit of 2700 SP/hr in Gunnery, T1 Spaceship command, etc.), that would mean that character would be able to nearly max out ALL T1 spaceship command skills (89.0m), OR ALL Gunnery (45.6m) and ALL Missile Skills (24.0m) and nearly max out all generic and all racial T1 spaceship command skills for one race (30.7m) -- before seeing a deficit. Remember this is the highly unlikely minimum time to see a deficit (mentioned above).
In the more likely situation that a character has 5/4 (as my main does) or 5/5 learning skills, the time to see any deficit is even larger (6.48 years and 8.52 years respectively). The former sees a reduction of 39 SP/hr and the latter still sees a reduction of 72 SP/hr (still assuming they have attributes remapped correctly and are skilling skills that will give them the maximum training speed, in this case Per/Wil skills). This correlates to 153.2m SP gained for the former and 201.5m SP gained for the latter. This means that the character with 5/5 skills will never reach that deficit as the total amount of SP one can have in Per/Wil skills is 160.8m and that the character with 5/4 skills will see a deficit for less than 4 months of training time (assuming they want to trail ALL Per/Will skills available until they have them all at level 5 before training anything else).
These are extreme cases, every other scenario falls in between. In the much more likely situation where characters train a range of skills (focusing on the ones that have primary/secondary attributes that match the ones they've mapped, but also training other skills), most characters will likely NEVER see a deficit.
I believe that Per/Wil skills have the biggest SP pool (160,768,000), followed by Int/Mem (142,592,000) and therefore any char remapped for anything other than Per/Wil and training those respective skills would see ZERO deficit.
As for the special needs person that started this thread who has 4/4 learning skills, they will never see any deficit no matter what they train, ever. This person is probably just looking for a reason to whine as the sand in his/her vagina is getting way too itchy.
TLDR: Everyone benefits from this change, the only people that will see any deficit will see it in 6 and a half years and that deficit will only last less than 4 months of training time and will result from a very unlikely situation.
Complaining about it being "not fair" when you are receiving only benefits with this change is idiotic.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. Blade.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 23:44:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Avon on 29/11/2010 23:46:52
Originally by: Cataca I seriously dont get why some vets are so scared about new players heaving a faster start (or not being scared away by the incredibly stupid idea to train stuff to train faster). They will be able to train basic support skills and a frig to a half decent level with the training bonus instead, big deal.
And it doesnt make you "hardened" that you had to "fight" for your training skills and "didnt get them handed on a silver platter". It makes you look like a little schoolgirl, whining cause they have it easier. HTFU, as you guys would say.
also, mmmmh vet tears, must be the same as old wine, it seems that much better
Actually it will take longer for people to get support skills than it did with the old character creation system (where you started with 800k or so XP) + didn't the blog state the training bonus was being removed?
Personally I could care less about the removal of the learning skills - sure it irks me that people are getting something that I had to spend time training, but I get the SP back, so meh. I guess it is a little annoying that people are getting more attribute points than was even possible when I started playing (advanced learning skills weren't available then), but then there are so many more things for people to train now.
The problem with learning skills was mostly due to the bad advice given to new players by "experts".
Personally I think the changes to the character creation system were far more of a dumbing down of Eve than the removal of skillpoints - all it seems to be now is an avatar selection system.
CCP have a tough job on their hands trying to make Eve more accessible without making it feel like the game is losing some of the complexity which appealed greatly to the older players when they joined.
They have probably got it about right this time, but some of the previous changes have been a step in the wrong direction.
Signature removed, please only use English on the forums. Zymurgist Okay sweet-cheeks xxx. Avon |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.11.30 00:02:00 -
[200]
I'm an old vet and I already gave up on this game. I quit and come back several times, without much enthusiasm. I lost all faith in CCP and have 0 respect left for them. Because they took something great and continuously made it worse. The golden era of this game has come and gone
That said, however, I don't consider these learning skill changes a bad move. While I see how it simplifies the game, thus dumbing it down a little, it doesn't effect the important issues - space ship combat and war strategy. The core of the game.
Ironically, this is one of the few things CCP shouldn't be demonized for. |
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