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The new changes, Veteran hell?

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John Mongrel	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:13:00 - [1] Hello all, Yes, this is me whining. This is me hating the new changes and looking for people who agree. This is me being a grumpy old veteran EVE Player envy of the new players getting it all handed to them on a silver platter. - Therefore no need to reconfirm this. I'm well aware of it. The current skills changes worries me. We will no longer have the Learning Skill category to train for, so that newer players will have a better, and easier, start. I'm cool with new players having it a bit more easy. EVE Online is a rough and hard game to start with, and that's why I didn't whine about the 100% Training bonus up till 1.6m SP - It was perfectly fair and you could get in the game, PvP'ing with just that amount, as seen in this EVE Movie: The CCP-Test This is why I'm more or less **ed off at the moment. With the current changes everyone, theoretically, gets 5.2m SP worth of attributes, from the start. The time I spent on just 4/4 in learning (Excluding Charisma, who the even uses that?) I get back in what converts to 1.8m SP. I'm happy with that. But what about the SP I could have earned with this full boost of my attributes from the start of character creation? At the moment my character is around the 57m SP amount, and if I had been provided with 5/5 in Learning skills from the start, I would have had a lot more than just 57m (I'm not a math-genius, so therefore I'll let all the math be handled by one). This is not fair by far. We've seen how new players can get right into the game and PvP with the above mentioned movie, so how is it that they also need a free boost? I didn't train for learning skills at the very first time of my EVE Experience. I used those I had, and maybe trained them to 4/0 at first. The 4.5m each was a huge load of isk for me in the start of my EVE career aswell, earning my isk by doing missions and looting what I could so I didn't get all the advanced learning skills from the beginning. I've always had the impression that nothing comes cheap in EVE, so how is it the game's rough and merciless learning curve is being **ed over by this change? - Now you're handed a character and all you need to make sure of is that you have some kind of skill training 24/7 and you won't lose one SP by bad training. - We lost SP by bad training, because we didn't start with a full set of attributes, so why do you want to change those rules after more than 5 years? New players right now save time. Saving time is earning more isk. Earning more isk is giving them the possibility of buying another High-SP toon with 100m SP and never experience another skill of the game, planning. This change also removes another benefit with Learning Skills. The possibility of catching up. I have a alt who just reached the 53m SP mark. He was made in 2007-09-25 whereas my main character was made in 2006-12-11. There's just a slight change in SP between these two, and both of them have been suspended when the other were. - The only difference is my alt having 5/5 (Also Charisma) in learning. Where my main has 4/4 (Without charisma). This possibility and chance is being removed from the game. Completely. These kind of changes really makes me look back on Star Wars Galaxies. It was a complex leveling system that got ruined because they wanted to attract more people and make it easier for those people - And give Jedi to those people who whined about some using more than on the game than others. Stop ruining EVE Online and it's complexity CCP. Keep the Learning Skills or give those people who spent 2 or 3 months training their learning skills to 5 some kind of bigger compensation than the skillpoints handed back. We've used more than 3 months training our learning skills up to a max of 5, and what we are getting back isn't even enough compensation for those 50+$ used - Let alone considering the SP's we've lost training up attributes to gain more. That is all.
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:16:00 - [2] We're all very sorry for you. Perhaps it's best for all of us if you ragequit and give me your stuff?
Gaboth Zaradath	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:17:00 - [3] No, give all your stuff to me!
Boinz	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:18:00 - [4] Edited by: Boinz on 25/11/2010 15:23:10 THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby Oh yeah this thread was really pointless Look: Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage oh yeah and the ccp thread: Linkage idiot..
John Mongrel	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:22:00 - [5] Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18 Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"? Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now.
Boinz	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:24:00 - [6] Originally by: John Mongrel Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18 Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"? Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now. Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:25:00 - [7] Originally by: John Mongrel Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18 Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"? Sorry, what? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Niclas Solo Amarr Love n Peace Snatch Victory	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:25:00 - [8] So you are angry because you didn't take the time to train learningskills and you think you lose on that with this change? not anyone else fault then yours that you choose to play the game like that. i did my learnings higher then you 5/4 but i choose to play with LG slaves instead of +4 or +5 is't fair that you learn faster then me even when i spent more time on learning skills? We all choose how we want to play so don't blame anyone else for what you choose. Atleast you will always be 60 mil higher in SP then someone that join on dec 14 and you will start training faster. Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn I build my own rigs so they are free.
Alt Tabbed	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Boinz Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here. Post Facts or GTFO. Originally by: Redshift XIII Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
Niclas Solo Amarr Love n Peace Snatch Victory	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Alt Tabbed Originally by: Boinz Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here. Post Facts or GTFO. Here is your fact... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510 looks like 95% is very happy about this. Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn I build my own rigs so they are free.
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:31:00 - [11] My rage quit notice to CCP: 'I played off and on for about 5 years and it was fun and challenging. Thank you for a great game. The writing is on the wall with the removal of learning skills and it says that you are trying to attract the kiddie set to the game. Best of luck.' See you guys. Be good and take care of each other. All my gear goes to my ten year old nephew who loves the game still. Arakash out 0/
John Mongrel	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Niclas Solo So you are angry because you didn't take the time to train learningskills and you think you lose on that with this change? not anyone else fault then yours that you choose to play the game like that. i did my learnings higher then you 5/4 but i choose to play with LG slaves instead of +4 or +5 is't fair that you learn faster then me even when i spent more time on learning skills? We all choose how we want to play so don't blame anyone else for what you choose. Atleast you will always be 60 mil higher in SP then someone that join on dec 14 and you will start training faster. No I'm not angry at when and how I decided to train my Learning Skills. I wasn't really considering training them higher than 4/4 unless EVEMon suggested I'd do it because the training time would become faster with some of the basics at level 5. While you played with LG Slaves, you gained a bonus knowing this would slow your training time. I used my implants with the intention of decreasing my training time, that's why I smacked my head in with a +4 implant set so I didn't have to train my learning skills higher and lose training time on my PvP skills doing this. I'm not blaming any new, old or veteran players. I'm blaming CCP Niclas.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:32:00 - [13] Edited by: Durzel on 25/11/2010 15:33:16 -5/10 People who trained Learning skills at the beginning/early on got, and will still have, the advantage that everything else they trained finished faster. That's an advantage that free SP & artificially higher attributes now can never replace. In short, OP is dumb as a plank.
Boinz Caldari Muffin Munchers	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Niclas Solo Originally by: Alt Tabbed Originally by: Boinz Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here. Post Facts or GTFO. Here is your fact... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510 looks like 95% is very happy about this. Got your back bro Originally by: Blane Xero Sorry, what?
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:34:00 - [15] +1 for the op. What gets me and always has is why new players get two remaps,and older players got one lol.Like telling them ** you. What is the reason for this if not to tell us ** you?
Alt Tabbed	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Niclas Solo Originally by: Alt Tabbed Originally by: Boinz Ive been playing for 6 years and Im not whining, you are a part of a tiny, tiny minority here. Post Facts or GTFO. Here is your fact... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510 looks like 95% is very happy about this. Ummm That is not a Fact. That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics. But thanks for playing. Originally by: Redshift XIII Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
Zaboth Garadath Amarr Ore Extraction Corporation	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:39:00 - [17] Originally by: John Mongrel Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:23:18 Originally by: Boinz THe only thing that learning skills hard for new players was to have them keep their interest in the game, they still have to train for ships, theyre just a tad faster than before. plus if you think about it they lose their 100% training bonus but get base attributes instead. thats not too much of a difference. Stop whining you big baby That really doesn't matter that they lose their 100% training bonus. They gain 12 attributes more overall and therefore have a new bonus... Permanently. Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"? Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now. When I started eve it was soooo much harder to overcome the learning cliff. Yes, it is easier now. It should be easier. Why shouldn't it be easier? If you are scared that noobs will start reaching your level, fear not, as: You have more sp than any newbie. You always will. Problem? Also, remember than skill is not proportional to sp, but time played. I for one am exited about the prospect that noobs will be flying flashier ships quicker _____________________________________________ 'If you really want to make someone hate you, explain to them, logically and politely, why they are wrong' - J. Baylock
Boinz Caldari Muffin Munchers	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Alt Tabbed Ummm That is not a Fact. That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics. But thanks for playing. If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on. Originally by: Blane Xero Sorry, what?
Gone Beserk Minmatar Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc Scorned Syndicate	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:41:00 - [19] As far as i know , we will be able to redistribute the SP we got in learning , thats enuf for me =D Besides , dont we older players have enough advantages as it is with our far FAAAR superior ship choices? New players wont spend the first month learning learning skills anymore = more will stay. I can put my learning sp into other neat stuff , new players will stick around more.. Win is win
Alt Tabbed	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Boinz Originally by: Alt Tabbed Ummm That is not a Fact. That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics. But thanks for playing. If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on. And there lays the rub. Cause I'd say he is dead wrong. :-) Originally by: Redshift XIII Something tells me this guy wouldn't approve of my rocketcane :(
Boinz Caldari Muffin Munchers	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Alt Tabbed Originally by: Boinz Originally by: Alt Tabbed Ummm That is not a Fact. That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics. But thanks for playing. B...but the majority is ALWAYS right!! If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on. And there lays the rub. Cause I'd say he is dead wrong. :-) Originally by: Blane Xero Sorry, what?
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Alt Tabbed Originally by: Boinz Originally by: Alt Tabbed Ummm That is not a Fact. That is you being a silly troll unable to properly do statistics. But thanks for playing. If people are saying that they are happy with this change, and considering how many are happy vs the very small amount of people whining about this change, I'd say he is spot on. And there lays the rub. Cause I'd say he is dead wrong. :-) You're the one trying to refute the original claim, therefor the burden of proof falls to you. Give us facts, or go home. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
MadManMaura Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 - [23] I am kinda of agreeing with the OP, I dont want CCP making this game any easier, its going to attract the wrong type of person and eventually steer the game towards pure PVE super carebears. I actually dont think the current player should get that much of a break eve is suppose to kick you in the nuts and your supposed to get up after that and figure out who not to let that happen again
Djavo Storm Solutions Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 - [24] Originally by: John Mongrel Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now. Erm, why are +5 implants useless now? Have I missed something!
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:45:00 - [25] Lol, blaming CCP for your own decision, to not train them to 5 when you started EVE? Do the math and you will see that the SP gap, between training the learning skills and having them from start, is much smaller then you make it seem. The biggest part of SP you lost is because of your own decision to not train them to 5 at start, which always has been the trade of between early progression and faster long term progression.
Boinz Caldari Muffin Munchers	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Djavo Originally by: John Mongrel Even implants are more or less useless now. Having a +5 is really just a waste of money, and I'm feeling sorry for those few players that bought one for 4-500m isk a set. It won't make a difference at all now. Erm, why are +5 implants useless now? Have I missed something! No, Op is just talking with his ass. Originally by: Blane Xero Sorry, what?
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:46:00 - [27] Originally by: John Mongrel Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"? You have an advantage of five years of training time, experience, and making contacts that no newbie starting now can overcome. Also, the change is good for the game. Compare to the addition of the Skill Queue - anyone who had to train without a skill queue could complain that it was unfair that new players would not have to put up with the broken sleep or lost hours that they had to endure. But the skill queue makes life easier for all the players and makes the game far less of a chore to play.
Djavo Storm Solutions Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:47:00 - [28] Thank god for that, just purchased two full sets hehe :)
Wandom Wapist	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:48:00 - [29] Vet checking in just to call the Op a name. Vagina. Vet checking out.
John Mongrel	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:49:00 - [30] Edited by: John Mongrel on 25/11/2010 15:54:03 Originally by: Gone Beserk As far as i know , we will be able to redistribute the SP we got in learning , thats enuf for me =D Besides , dont we older players have enough advantages as it is with our far FAAAR superior ship choices? New players wont spend the first month learning learning skills anymore = more will stay. I can put my learning sp into other neat stuff , new players will stick around more.. Win is win There is no saying more will stay just because learning skills have been removed from the game. So changing such an important game mechanic like Learning Skills for the "possibility" of more people staying is, sorry, facking stupid. - I've talked with new players who left after 20days to 1+ month because they got griefed, suicide ganked and scammed. Originally by: Shaalira D'arc Originally by: John Mongrel Now where's the fairness in that considering I've spent the last 5 or some years playing EVE without this permanent "bonus"? You have an advantage of five years of training time, experience, and making contacts that no newbie starting now can overcome. That's really not an advantage. That's just me playing EVE for five years before any other newcomer. How can you even remotely call that an advantage?? The whole thing comes down to this. We all agree as of right now Learning Skills is a major part of our training speed, and this training speed decides what you can fly, use and how good. - Everything is really depending on your attributes. CCP want's to remove this and instead of having you DO something to get these bonuses, you're handed them for free in totall disregard of older players and their time used on this. That's like Blizzard giving every new player Epic Gear in World of Warcraft so they can "join the older players" faster...

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