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DEV RESPONCE REQUESTED: Amarr Rookie ships and cynos

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ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 97	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:21:00 - [31] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: I am here to spurge in the OP's thread. Maybe using ships intended for cyno's is what CCP wants you to do? Spurge complete. Thank you for your time. Then perhaps it should be taken away from ALL rookie ship rather than effecting a single race only? Lilianna Star wrote: So...how long does it take to train up an impairor? I think you mean a ship other than Impairor. Unfortunately that isn't the right question as the ability being lost isn't one you can train to get back. The question is how can an Amarr player train to get free, ready to go, cyno ships when they dock like the rest of the races? Umm, you're not losing any ability. You just aren't gaining one. And Amarr players could go with Cyno 5, if the 2500 isk for a Cargo Expander 1 is too expensive. The expense isn't the issue unless CCP plans to seed expanded cargo hold 1s as an NPC item on the market in both NPC and SOV space. As this affects only a single race, it is very unlikely you will see them stocked regularly anywhere. People who know better will simply stop rolling Amarr characters period. As it stands, all the starter races are equal and can do the same things out of the box, except Amarr. I wouldn't recommend anyone roll an Amarr character right now as it only gives a disadvantage when compared to the other races. It isn't like you can't FLY Amarr if you want. Just train the skills. However, if you ROLL Amarr, you will forever be at a disadvantage when compared to the other races for cynoing and there is nothing you can do about it. So you are better off taking any race other than Amarr as a starter race. But lets talk about Cyno V. If you aren't Amarr, you can do it with Cyno IV. That means you have a character that has less than 900K SP which is covered by your default clone. That means you can jump to ANY station and it doesn't matter if it has medical facilities or not. As soon as you have Cyno V, you go over that 900K limit and now can only jump to stations with medical facilities due to the need to upgrade your clone. Again, much more risk for no reward and only a single race affected.
Denidil Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 436	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:23:00 - [32] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: I would like to have a response to this from a Dev. I want to know if taking away the ablity to use the Impairor as a cyno ship while leaving the other race's rookie ships able to do so was intentional. If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race? they're already said FIT A CARGO EXTENDER. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10010	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:26:00 - [33] - Quote So, what's the issue again? CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Pipa Porto 655	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:29:00 - [34] - Quote Mag's wrote: So, what's the issue again? Someone's upset that instead of having to fit a 500k Isk MAPC to Noobship Cyno, they have to fit a 2k Isk Cargo Expander to Noobship cyno. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 97	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:30:00 - [35] - Quote Denidil wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: I would like to have a response to this from a Dev. I want to know if taking away the ablity to use the Impairor as a cyno ship while leaving the other race's rookie ships able to do so was intentional. If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race? they're already said FIT A CARGO EXTENDER. Are you going to fly out to the edge of the map to provide one? If I am not amarr, I don't have to fit anything extra. I can just pod jump to any station I have a cyno and fuel at and jump with no changes necessary. The cargo expander is not a valid solution in any way at all. If you honestly think it is, then I am pretty sure you have never dealt with nul-sec logistics for an alliance before if you have ever even jumped a capital at all, which I doubt.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10010	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:33:00 - [36] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Mag's wrote: So, what's the issue again? Someone's upset that instead of having to fit a 500k Isk MAPC to Noobship Cyno, they have to fit a 2k Isk Cargo Expander to Noobship cyno. That's awful. CCP are evil at times I tell ya, they really are. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 97	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:34:00 - [37] - Quote Mag's wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Mag's wrote: So, what's the issue again? Someone's upset that instead of having to fit a 500k Isk MAPC to Noobship Cyno, they have to fit a 2k Isk Cargo Expander to Noobship cyno. That's awful. CCP are evil at times I tell ya, they really are. You work extremely hard at missing the point. Did you have to have training to be that stupid or does it come naturally to you?
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10010	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:38:00 - [38] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: Mag's wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Mag's wrote: So, what's the issue again? Someone's upset that instead of having to fit a 500k Isk MAPC to Noobship Cyno, they have to fit a 2k Isk Cargo Expander to Noobship cyno. That's awful. CCP are evil at times I tell ya, they really are. You work extremely hard at missing the point. Did you have to have training to be that stupid or does it come naturally to you? All natural. We must be identical twins. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Xiang Jing State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.08.09 23:01:00 - [39] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: A) I am talking to the Dev right now. B) Not sure, but they did. C) Why should only one race have to do this while all the others don't? Cool, glad to hear. Hope it goes well. But B) They didn't permanently remove it, which was my point. The ability is still readily accessible. C) CCP explained it as a way to learn the Amarr ship traits. Less cargo space, in this example. They want the rookie ships to reflect that. Seems reasonable to me, if maybe a bit inelegant.
Tarsus Zateki GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 881	Posted - 2012.08.10 00:49:00 - [40] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: ITT: many people show they don't know how to read. DEV response requested. Not pubbie sperg wanted. I assume your deplorable level of literacy is the reason you couldn't find CCP's email address. Its a far more effective means to get in touch with developers instead of making demands on a forum where they are in no way obligated to respond to your incompetent attempt at a troll post. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Tarsus Zateki GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 881	Posted - 2012.08.10 00:52:00 - [41] - Quote Is upset about a feature change. Demands compensation far above what could be reasonably demanded over assets that it doesn't even actually own. Is pubbie filth. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Tarsus Zateki GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 881	Posted - 2012.08.10 00:54:00 - [42] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: Denidil wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: I would like to have a response to this from a Dev. I want to know if taking away the ablity to use the Impairor as a cyno ship while leaving the other race's rookie ships able to do so was intentional. If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race? they're already said FIT A CARGO EXTENDER. Are you going to fly out to the edge of the map to provide one? If I am not amarr, I don't have to fit anything extra. I can just pod jump to any station I have a cyno and fuel at and jump with no changes necessary. The cargo expander is not a valid solution in any way at all. If you honestly think it is, then I am pretty sure you have never dealt with nul-sec logistics for an alliance before if you have ever even jumped a capital at all, which I doubt. If you have the means to place Cynos and fuel at stations then you have the means to place a cargo expander there as well. Please leave troll posts up to the professionals; Suddenly Forums ForumKings is much better at it. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Jonah Gravenstein 721	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:01:00 - [43] - Quote As the dev response (notice the spelling OP, there's no excuse for crap spelling most modern browsers have a built in spellcheck) states, noob frigs were never intended to be used as throwaway cynoboats, if it really bothers you that much just buy another Amarr frig, or fit a cargo expander, either way in the immortal words of permaband HTFU. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside.
ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 97	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:02:00 - [44] - Quote Tarsus Zateki wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: Denidil wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: I would like to have a response to this from a Dev. I want to know if taking away the ablity to use the Impairor as a cyno ship while leaving the other race's rookie ships able to do so was intentional. If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race? they're already said FIT A CARGO EXTENDER. Are you going to fly out to the edge of the map to provide one? If I am not amarr, I don't have to fit anything extra. I can just pod jump to any station I have a cyno and fuel at and jump with no changes necessary. The cargo expander is not a valid solution in any way at all. If you honestly think it is, then I am pretty sure you have never dealt with nul-sec logistics for an alliance before if you have ever even jumped a capital at all, which I doubt. If you have the means to place Cynos and fuel at stations then you have the means to place a cargo expander there as well. Please leave troll posts up to the professionals; Suddenly Forums ForumKings is much better at it. I HAD the means to place cynos there. I HAD the means to put cargo expanders there. Since the implications of this change were not detailed in any dev blog, I no longer have that ability. Again, this is about balance. Either make it so that all these ships can cyno or make it so that none can.
Lyskal Oskold Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 1451	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:34:00 - [45] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: Xiang Jing wrote: I'm a newbie and even I am blown away by this. A) There's been a dev response B) Why would CCP essentially remove functionality like this from just one race's rookie ship and leave it for the other three? They wouldn't and didn't. C) Even if somehow, Amarr rookie ships lost the ability completely, what's stopping you from buying a different ship to cyno? A) I am talking to the Dev right now. B) Not sure, but they did. C) Why should only one race have to do this while all the others don't? Rookie ships are designed to show off the races ship building philosophy. Amarr don't need to store ammunition and thus have smaller holds. Rookie ships are designed for rookies, not cynos. Your entire point of view is self serving. "But now Amarr alts need to put in slightly more effort!" OH NO, QUICK, MAKE ALL THE SHIPS THE SAME! Nobody cares about your new found hardships because the ship isn't designed for that purpose. I don't hear anyone bitching that scooters can't pull several tons of cargo, why though? They're not designed for it is why. The Amarr rookie ship is designed for new players to derp around in. Stop being an over entitled whinge and ADAPT. Pirates are red, buddies are blue, if you're unlucky enough to be orange, I'll f*cking kill you.I wonder if all the pickles in the forums are tax exempt?
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1687	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:37:00 - [46] - Quote oh no you might have to get cargo expanders hauled with the cyno mods and LO3 to the stations you base your cyno alts on i, of course, preferred the days when it was MAPCs, cargo expanders, cyno mods and LO3 EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE)
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1687	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:38:00 - [47] - Quote also fyi there really aren't any ships "intended" for lighting cynos other than force recons which aren't really the optimal way to light cynos in every given situation EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE)
Frying Doom Zat's Affiliated Traders 487	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:46:00 - [48] - Quote Hell I have met some tight wads in my time but this takes the cake. Using free rookie ships for cyno's, could you sink any lower? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 170	Posted - 2012.08.10 01:46:00 - [49] - Quote Tom Gerard wrote: Alexzandvar Douglass wrote: James 315 wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race? I hope your capitals aren't really relying on a bunch of rookie ships. Tribal Band When two tribes go to war... a point is all that you can score. that song is on eve radio right now!
Pipa Porto 658	Posted - 2012.08.10 03:38:00 - [50] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: I HAD the means to place cynos there. I HAD the means to put cargo expanders there. Since the implications of this change were not detailed in any dev blog, I no longer have that ability. Again, this is about balance. Either make it so that all these ships can cyno or make it so that none can. They were detailed in the Patch notes released well before the patch. They were detailed in a thread on the subject by CCP Fozzie. The fact that they were being changed was announced in a Dev Blog. If being able to cyno in a noobship is critical to you, you should have been paying attention after the Devblog mentioned that they would be altered. That would have lead you to CCP Fozzie's thread, possibly to SISI, and to look at the patch notes before patch day. Also, Amarr Noobships had the ability to Cyno with 1 fitting module, and with the new change, they have the ability to Cyno with ... one fitting module. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 97	Posted - 2012.08.10 04:12:00 - [51] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: I HAD the means to place cynos there. I HAD the means to put cargo expanders there. Since the implications of this change were not detailed in any dev blog, I no longer have that ability. Again, this is about balance. Either make it so that all these ships can cyno or make it so that none can. They were detailed in the Patch notes released well before the patch. They were detailed in a thread on the subject by CCP Fozzie. The fact that they were being changed was announced in a Dev Blog. If being able to cyno in a noobship is critical to you, you should have been paying attention after the Devblog mentioned that they would be altered. That would have lead you to CCP Fozzie's thread, possibly to SISI, and to look at the patch notes before patch day. Also, Amarr Noobships had the ability to Cyno with 1 fitting module, and with the new change, they have the ability to Cyno with ... one fitting module. The post you are referring to is #241 on page 13 of the thread which you are talking about and the changes weren't obvious unless you were paying very very detailed attention. Look, if I was arguing that it should be changed because I was being inconvenienced by it, then I would agree with your argument. But you are arguing against yourself. You are making that argument, not I. Right now the only starter race that is any different in abilities from the other is Amarr and the nerf only affects characters who choose Amarr as their starter race. That is pretty much the definition of unbalanced. If you are a new player and rolled Amarr, you would be better off rerolling a different race and just training Amarr ships.
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 1029	Posted - 2012.08.10 05:07:00 - [52] - Quote This doesn't have anything to do with new players, but with disposable alts. Make cyno an 8x skill, and cyno only mountable on black ops battleships, and this will be a better game. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman
ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 97	Posted - 2012.08.10 06:32:00 - [53] - Quote Roime wrote: This doesn't have anything to do with new players, but with disposable alts. Make cyno an 8x skill, and cyno only mountable on black ops battleships, and this will be a better game. Who says my alt is disposable? Just because one of its uses is to light cynos doesn't mean it is 'disposable' or only used for that reason.
Pipa Porto 661	Posted - 2012.08.10 06:52:00 - [54] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: The post you are referring to is #241 on page 13 of the thread which you are talking about and the changes weren't obvious unless you were paying very very detailed attention. Look, if I was arguing that it should be changed because I was being inconvenienced by it, then I would agree with your argument. But you are arguing against yourself. You are making that argument, not I. Right now the only starter race that is any different in abilities from the other is Amarr and the nerf only affects characters who choose Amarr as their starter race. That is pretty much the definition of unbalanced. If you are a new player and rolled Amarr, you would be better off rerolling a different race and just training Amarr ships. Fozzie's thread is actually here, first post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136238 The Amarr noobship also doesn't have an ECM bonus. Or a Sensor Damp bonus. Or a Target painting bonus. The other Noobships don't put up as stiff of an Armor buffer. Different != Unbalanced. It's actually the premise behind ship balancing in EVE. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Ris Dnalor Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 411	Posted - 2012.08.10 07:42:00 - [55] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: C) Why should only one race have to do this while all the others don't? it's called karma, you ******* slaver. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961 EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody - Qolde
Scott PiIgrim Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.08.10 07:52:00 - [56] - Quote Somebody should put Tribal band out of their misery.. 0/10..
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 1030	Posted - 2012.08.10 08:22:00 - [57] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: Roime wrote: This doesn't have anything to do with new players, but with disposable alts. Make cyno an 8x skill, and cyno only mountable on black ops battleships, and this will be a better game. Who says my alt is disposable? Just because one of its uses is to light cynos doesn't mean it is 'disposable' or only used for that reason. Your alt is neither a new player. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10016	Posted - 2012.08.10 10:05:00 - [58] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: The post you are referring to is #241 on page 13 of the thread which you are talking about and the changes weren't obvious unless you were paying very very detailed attention. Look, if I was arguing that it should be changed because I was being inconvenienced by it, then I would agree with your argument. But you are arguing against yourself. You are making that argument, not I. Right now the only starter race that is any different in abilities from the other is Amarr and the nerf only affects characters who choose Amarr as their starter race. That is pretty much the definition of unbalanced. If you are a new player and rolled Amarr, you would be better off rerolling a different race and just training Amarr ships. Fozzie's thread is actually here, first post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136238 The Amarr noobship also doesn't have an ECM bonus. Or a Sensor Damp bonus. Or a Target painting bonus. The other Noobships don't put up as stiff of an Armor buffer. Different != Unbalanced. It's actually the premise behind ship balancing in EVE. (By the way, I'm not particularly pleased with the change, as one of my cyno alts is Amarr, so y'know what I did? I bought a stack of Cargo Expanders and sold off my MAPCs. And it's not a problem any more.) This is actually the thread I thought the link in the first page of this thread was linking to. This post, specifically: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1689589#post1689589 Pwned. Thanks Ruby. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
ps3ud0nym O C C U P Y Tribal Band 98	Posted - 2012.08.10 13:57:00 - [59] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: ps3ud0nym wrote: The post you are referring to is #241 on page 13 of the thread which you are talking about and the changes weren't obvious unless you were paying very very detailed attention. Look, if I was arguing that it should be changed because I was being inconvenienced by it, then I would agree with your argument. But you are arguing against yourself. You are making that argument, not I. Right now the only starter race that is any different in abilities from the other is Amarr and the nerf only affects characters who choose Amarr as their starter race. That is pretty much the definition of unbalanced. If you are a new player and rolled Amarr, you would be better off rerolling a different race and just training Amarr ships. Fozzie's thread is actually here, first post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136238 The Amarr noobship also doesn't have an ECM bonus. Or a Sensor Damp bonus. Or a Target painting bonus. The other Noobships don't put up as stiff of an Armor buffer. Different != Unbalanced. It's actually the premise behind ship balancing in EVE. (By the way, I'm not particularly pleased with the change, as one of my cyno alts is Amarr, so y'know what I did? I bought a stack of Cargo Expanders and sold off my MAPCs. And it's not a problem any more.) This is actually the thread I thought the link in the first page of this thread was linking to. This post, specifically: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1689589#post1689589 The first post you link to says nothing about cynoing. It is just a base listing of the ship stats. What you are says with those two references is that everyone should be on the forums 24/7 and hanging off every post and sentence that someone at CCP says. Your inference is rediculious and impractical. This is a large change and should have been detailed in plain language in the dev blog. Not discovered as you dig through some forum thread. The reality is that I have talked to almost no one who knew of the effect of these changes and I sincerely doubt you did either. Sitting there and using search to digg through forums trying to tell someone they should have known somethign that you didn't know is disingenuous at best, and in reality just simply dishonest. This thread is full of strawmen. So far I have been told that I am only mad because I was inconvenience. That I am upset over "disposable alts". That my alts aren't "new players". Those are all GREAT arguments with one small problem. I never made them. You people are arguing against yourselves. You are literally making up an argument, pretending that it is what I am saying and then writing a wonder sperg aganist the imaginary position you have made for me. I am sure that those doing it are more than stupid enough to believe it. The issue is one of balance. There is not supposed to be any difference between races when choosing a starting race. There IS that difference now, and only for one race. All the story line explanations and all the other bullshit you people have come up with don't address the very practical matter that I am talking about. You are trying to rationalize something that is legitimately unbalanced. The fact that you have to do so, shows even more clearly, just how unbalanced it is. I am going to unsub to this thread now. It has been fun, but you guys are just far far to pants on head crazy for me. You can continue to make up points to sperg against if you want. But my IQ can't take taking down at your level anymore. Cheers.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10019	Posted - 2012.08.10 14:33:00 - [60] - Quote ps3ud0nym wrote: The issue is one of balance....... ...snip... But my IQ can't take taking down at your level anymore. It is one of balance and cyno usage is not part of that equation. I know with that high IQ of yours, you may have issues understanding this. But the ship *was, is and never will be, balanced around cyno usage. Thank you for showing us your massive intellect and excellent use of English. It's been a pleasure for all. Now go buy yourself a cargo expander and shhhh, there's a good lad. CCP Zulu.....* Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.

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