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Anybody else worried about Incursion?

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Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.29 18:57:00 - [1] Not the character creator, or the rocket buffs, or the learning skills. I mean the actual Incursions. When I see CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic. This isn't so much about the idea of my own gameplay being interrupted; It's more about the unfortunate implications it makes about CCP's design staff. If you've got a mechanic that people won't want to participate in, and you try and poke them with a stick to make them participate, you're only going to *** them off.* On the other hand, you could argue that PvP or NPC corp taxes are like this, but even then you have Empire Space, and NPC corp taxes are a reasonable tradeoff for wardec immunity. With most new features, the worst that happens is that nobody cares enough to participate. But Incursions may actually have a negative impact if they're done poorly. I have little doubt they'll be popular for the first couple of weeks, but after the honeymoon period dies off, I don't know. I guess I just can't help but feel that if CCP had really wanted to develop group PvE content, they could have executed it with a little more class. And I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't going to end well. But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly. Thoughts? Opinions? \|24 Hour Plex\|Mining Makeover\|
Gallians	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:02:00 - [2] I think your concerns are unfounded. Incursions are a lot of fun in the test server, if a bit hard. And the abduction events on Tranq are pretty fun too. Plus they are supossed to pay well. But in the end, if you want to do other activities, there are plenty of systems that should have the proper level agent I think. And for 0.0 incursions will drop literally billions in loot from the BPC. Win win win, I think.
Cikulisuy Amarr D00M. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:06:00 - [3] i think you should stop being a carebear. ~
chriskun	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Cikulisuy i think you should stop being a carebear. I second this motion.
Rodrigo Milani	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:14:00 - [5] Originally by: chriskun Originally by: Cikulisuy i think you should stop being a carebear. I second this motion. I 3rd/minute this ...
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:24:00 - [6] CCP cannot do anything without upsetting someone, this time as ever its just a minority upset. You are worrying needlessly, only a handfull of people will be upset.
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:26:00 - [7] I think you guys misunderstood me. I'm going to bed. \|24 Hour Plex\|Mining Makeover\|
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Cikulisuy i think you should stop being a carebear. This. This is not a carebear game. If you want carebear-style PvE, there are other games. Here, even PvE can pop up where you least expect it and interfere with your nice, safe money-farming. I completely support the incursions mechanic and I want to see more of this style of PvE and less of missions as they currently exist. IMO, NPCs should stop being stupid, nearly inert goodie-bags waiting to be harvested. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:48:00 - [9] I'm glad we finally get some NPCs that actually can fight back, this will be glorious.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:50:00 - [10] As a solo player I'll just work around it. I get enough human interaction in RL, and from what little I've seen of fleet ops on YouTube most seem to be an undisciplined lot of yakkers. If Incursion passes me by then so be it, Eve is a big universe.

Miss TechOne	Posted - 2010.11.29 19:55:00 - [11] where can I get the low down on Incursion ?
Hecatonis Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.29 20:04:00 - [12] i am a carebear, and i am really excited about this. after i get my hands on the shiny new ship i will be looking for a corp that is going to be doing this. it should be great __________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain
Max Cetera Capital Researchs Inc.	Posted - 2010.11.29 20:14:00 - [13] Quote: Anybody else worried about Incursion? Are you worried about Sanshas invading your ass ?
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.29 20:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Ghengis Tia As a solo player I'll just work around it. I get enough human interaction in RL, and from what little I've seen of fleet ops on YouTube most seem to be an undisciplined lot of yakkers. If Incursion passes me by then so be it, Eve is a big universe. yea, all the best corps post their stuff on youtube
Alt FTW	Posted - 2010.11.29 20:42:00 - [15] What worries me about it is that it is just another step in CCP's continuous push to weed out solo players from this game. I don't mind (care) if a feature is added that I won't/can't use, but CCP should understand that there are a lot of players out there without the inclination to join corporations (for whatever reason). Trying to force them to do so anyway will just mean losing a significant customer base. Also, those response above ("stop being a carebear, etc.) or responses in other threads ("MMO means you have to socialise and become my BFF, otherwise you're doing it wrong") are getting really old and tiresome. Just let people play the game they want to play it, please.
Isaac Apylon As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.11.29 20:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Mashie Saldana I'm glad we finally get some NPCs that actually can fight back, this will be glorious. Pretty much this. Incursion should be pretty awesome. And if you don't like the thought of NPCs screwing up your missions, either A) Go kill them B) Grind up some standings with another agent and keep a jump clone there. Option B is what I did a long while back, in case I should need to move out of my current home. It's not hard to do at all. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/
Garekell	Posted - 2010.11.29 20:54:00 - [17] Ignore the rude folks that feel a need to shout 'Carebear!' whenever someone doesn't beat off over pvp. Fighting people in internet spaceships seems to make them feel superior for God knows what reason. Anyway I know many folks in game that are interested in the incursions, but not at all happy about the negative effects the incursions bring with them. Or how it is being used to try to force participation in an activity, or cause you inconvenience if you chose not to. It's a stick not a carrot. Also the fact that only the most effective fleet gets ANY reward. The last thing I think I would enjoy is fighting for an hour, two, or three then getting nothing. On the plus side I am guessing Eve is big enough that the chance the incursions are going to impact your particular area of space very often is pretty low. My concern is what I like about Eve is that I can choose what I want to do when I want to do it pretty much. Eve is mainly the way I relax after a hard day's work, so if I log on too often and find I can't do what I want, and instead have to go fight some incursion or be inconvenienced by leaving a region during my limited playtime, well, there are other games out there. I have a wait and see attitude. But yes, I know many people are giving it a jaundiced eye for now. Originally by: Black Dranzer Not the character creator, or the rocket buffs, or the learning skills. I mean the actual Incursions. When I see CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic. This isn't so much about the idea of my own gameplay being interrupted; It's more about the unfortunate implications it makes about CCP's design staff. If you've got a mechanic that people won't want to participate in, and you try and poke them with a stick to make them participate, you're only going to *** them off.* On the other hand, you could argue that PvP or NPC corp taxes are like this, but even then you have Empire Space, and NPC corp taxes are a reasonable tradeoff for wardec immunity. With most new features, the worst that happens is that nobody cares enough to participate. But Incursions may actually have a negative impact if they're done poorly. I have little doubt they'll be popular for the first couple of weeks, but after the honeymoon period dies off, I don't know. I guess I just can't help but feel that if CCP had really wanted to develop group PvE content, they could have executed it with a little more class. And I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't going to end well. But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly. Thoughts? Opinions?
Takseen	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:29:00 - [18] Edited by: Takseen on 29/11/2010 21:31:57 I'm not that bothered by it personally. The penalties are as you say inconvenient rather than crippling, and I'm perfectly capable of moving system also. The rewards better be ultra lucrative though, to keep people clearing the Incursions after the initial wave of excitement is over. 0.0 Incursions will probably get cleared anyway to remove the cyno effect, but I could see empire incursions being left up indefinitely if they're not in a major hub. Edit : Oh, and they need to add a random event where a Sansha Titan warps onto grid and uses an oldschool Doomsday weapon then warps out again. Since they're apparently turning it into World of Evecraft they may as well go all the way :P
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Rodrigo Milani Originally by: chriskun Originally by: Cikulisuy i think you should stop being a carebear. I second this motion. I 3rd/minute this ... The motion carries Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: FOl2TY8 I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence. Yeah, I use that excuse too.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:37:00 - [20] I think we are missing the original question from the OP: Is it good for the game of EVE for CCP to add a feature to the game that is not attractive because it is well made, but because if you do something other than participate in it, you get penalized? This question applies to ANY feature, not just Incursion. Example: one of the main complaints about Incarna is people saying they do not want to be penalized if they choose not to walk. Is using a stick instead a carrot a good idea?

Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/11/2010 21:42:56 Incursion is good. It's CCP's reply to those who believed hi sec = bear honey spot. The only thing I don't know if it's good is the prize rewarding. In Warhammer Online (inventors of public quests) everyone who participated could have a chance to win loot, if this CCP version will only prize a closed group of specialized people soon the public quests will be deserted by all but them. Would be a pity. IE I'd like to join with a battleship and know I'll have a chance to win something and not just to use cubic meters of ammo with no hope. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Takseen	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:42:00 - [22] There's both a stick and a carrot though. They just have to make sure the carrot is significantly bigger than the stick. And I think leaving the stick in is important to make it feel like the invasion actually matters. If its just a bunch of dungeons that spawn and you can do them if you want but its totally cool if you just wanna ignore them and keep grinding, that doesn't feel very sandboxy.
Magnus Orin Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:43:00 - [23] I see these Incursions as very similar to the "public quests" available in Warhammer Online. The game it self sucked, but it had some original potential, and had a few interesting features. The public quests I felt were a welcome pve addition to the MMO genre, and I think they would be a welcome, albeit more random and temporary, addition to Eve Online. If you'd seriously rather grind your face against more level 4s than take part in a dynamic and random live event with the potential to drop good loot, I don't know why you play Eve. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:48:00 - [24] I can't wait for incursions in the following places and to hear the subsequent whines. Jita Perimeter Dodixie Mostu Auvergne Hek Rens Illinfrik Frarn Cat Well thats about it. Im sure there are some other systems are needed.
Rykuss	Posted - 2010.11.29 21:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Garekell Ignore the rude folks that feel a need to shout 'Carebear!' whenever someone doesn't beat off over pvp. Fighting people in internet spaceships seems to make them feel superior for God knows what reason. Anyway I know many folks in game that are interested in the incursions, but not at all happy about the negative effects the incursions bring with them. Or how it is being used to try to force participation in an activity, or cause you inconvenience if you chose not to. It's a stick not a carrot. Also the fact that only the most effective fleet gets ANY reward. The last thing I think I would enjoy is fighting for an hour, two, or three then getting nothing. On the plus side I am guessing Eve is big enough that the chance the incursions are going to impact your particular area of space very often is pretty low. My concern is what I like about Eve is that I can choose what I want to do when I want to do it pretty much. Eve is mainly the way I relax after a hard day's work, so if I log on too often and find I can't do what I want, and instead have to go fight some incursion or be inconvenienced by leaving a region during my limited playtime, well, there are other games out there. I have a wait and see attitude. But yes, I know many people are giving it a jaundiced eye for now. Originally by: Black Dranzer Not the character creator, or the rocket buffs, or the learning skills. I mean the actual Incursions. When I see CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic. This isn't so much about the idea of my own gameplay being interrupted; It's more about the unfortunate implications it makes about CCP's design staff. If you've got a mechanic that people won't want to participate in, and you try and poke them with a stick to make them participate, you're only going to *** them off.* On the other hand, you could argue that PvP or NPC corp taxes are like this, but even then you have Empire Space, and NPC corp taxes are a reasonable tradeoff for wardec immunity. With most new features, the worst that happens is that nobody cares enough to participate. But Incursions may actually have a negative impact if they're done poorly. I have little doubt they'll be popular for the first couple of weeks, but after the honeymoon period dies off, I don't know. I guess I just can't help but feel that if CCP had really wanted to develop group PvE content, they could have executed it with a little more class. And I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't going to end well. But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly. Thoughts? Opinions? I'm trying to take the wait and see attitude here as well but I don't see it ending well. Ever tried getting people to organise against a (small) local group of griefers? I can't imagine having any kind of success here either. Worst case scenario, I might actually play starcraft II beyond the first few missions.
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.11.29 22:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Takseen There's both a stick and a carrot though. They just have to make sure the carrot is significantly bigger than the stick. And I think leaving the stick in is important to make it feel like the invasion actually matters. If its just a bunch of dungeons that spawn and you can do them if you want but its totally cool if you just wanna ignore them and keep grinding, that doesn't feel very sandboxy. Exactly. This game needs more dynamic PvE and it needs to feel like events are actually occurring in the world instead of NPCs hanging out in various complexes waiting to be popped for the goodies they contain. As it is now, all of EVE--but especially high-sec--is much too static. These incursions will mix things up and change the landscape of the cluster. It may not physically change the map, but it will make certain areas dangerous that were previously happy fun farming-land and I think this is nothing but a good thing. It will change mission-running, trade routes, mining, even piracy with powerful Sansha ships camping gates and the like. I tried soloing one of these sites in a decently-tanked battleship on Singularity a while back, and got wtfpwned in about 30 seconds by a few cruisers and a battleship, so don't expect an easy fight. I absolutely think that this expansion is exactly the shot in the arm (or at least part of it) that EVE's PvE needs right now.
Zantris	Posted - 2010.11.30 01:13:00 - [27] Edited by: Zantris on 30/11/2010 01:16:35 Meh, people will just take the path of least resistance. When they put the tax on NPC corps, tons of player made 1-2 man corps for their mission runners. With Incursion, people will just fly or jump-clone to another system with a L4 agent and bypass the irritation. I think its poorly designed. I'm sure it will do OK to start off as people are interested in trying it out, but after the initial interest wears, I doubt they'll utilized much. You aren't going to make people do something they don't want to do, and I really don't see the point in trying.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.11.30 01:19:00 - [28] I think the implicit "encouragement" to take part due to incusion effects is just an accident of design rather than an intentional effort to get people involved. This is the company that doesn't see the need to complete development of new features before releasing them. I don't think they really plan on that level. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Lagn Gita	Posted - 2010.11.30 01:41:00 - [29] just want to point out the sansha invasions are a carebear feature to the herp derps above.
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.11.30 03:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Lagn Gita just want to point out the sansha invasions are a carebear feature to the herp derps above. Not really. The real carebears are the ones complaining about it, saying how it's going to interrupt their farming activities. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.



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