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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:57:00 -
[1]
Not the character creator, or the rocket buffs, or the learning skills. I mean the actual Incursions.
When I see CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic. This isn't so much about the idea of my own gameplay being interrupted; It's more about the unfortunate implications it makes about CCP's design staff. If you've got a mechanic that people won't want to participate in, and you try and poke them with a stick to make them participate, you're only going to **** them off. On the other hand, you could argue that PvP or NPC corp taxes are like this, but even then you have Empire Space, and NPC corp taxes are a reasonable tradeoff for wardec immunity.
With most new features, the worst that happens is that nobody cares enough to participate. But Incursions may actually have a negative impact if they're done poorly. I have little doubt they'll be popular for the first couple of weeks, but after the honeymoon period dies off, I don't know. I guess I just can't help but feel that if CCP had really wanted to develop group PvE content, they could have executed it with a little more class. And I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't going to end well.
But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly.
Thoughts? Opinions?
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Gallians
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:02:00 -
[2]
I think your concerns are unfounded. Incursions are a lot of fun in the test server, if a bit hard. And the abduction events on Tranq are pretty fun too. Plus they are supossed to pay well.
But in the end, if you want to do other activities, there are plenty of systems that should have the proper level agent I think.
And for 0.0 incursions will drop literally billions in loot from the BPC. Win win win, I think.
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Cikulisuy
Amarr
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:06:00 -
[3]
i think you should stop being a carebear.
~ |
chriskun
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:11:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cikulisuy
i think you should stop being a carebear.
I second this motion.
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: chriskun
Originally by: Cikulisuy
i think you should stop being a carebear.
I second this motion.
I 3rd/minute this ...
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:24:00 -
[6]
CCP cannot do anything without upsetting someone, this time as ever its just a minority upset.
You are worrying needlessly, only a handfull of people will be upset.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:26:00 -
[7]
I think you guys misunderstood me.
I'm going to bed.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cikulisuy
i think you should stop being a carebear.
This.
This is not a carebear game. If you want carebear-style PvE, there are other games. Here, even PvE can pop up where you least expect it and interfere with your nice, safe money-farming.
I completely support the incursions mechanic and I want to see more of this style of PvE and less of missions as they currently exist. IMO, NPCs should stop being stupid, nearly inert goodie-bags waiting to be harvested.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:48:00 -
[9]
I'm glad we finally get some NPCs that actually can fight back, this will be glorious.
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:50:00 -
[10]
As a solo player I'll just work around it.
I get enough human interaction in RL, and from what little I've seen of fleet ops on YouTube most seem to be an undisciplined lot of yakkers.
If Incursion passes me by then so be it, Eve is a big universe.
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Miss TechOne
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:55:00 -
[11]
where can I get the low down on Incursion ?
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:04:00 -
[12]
i am a carebear, and i am really excited about this.
after i get my hands on the shiny new ship i will be looking for a corp that is going to be doing this.
it should be great
__________________________________________________
stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Max Cetera
Capital Researchs Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:14:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Anybody else worried about Incursion?
Are you worried about Sanshas invading your ass ?
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia
As a solo player I'll just work around it.
I get enough human interaction in RL, and from what little I've seen of fleet ops on YouTube most seem to be an undisciplined lot of yakkers.
If Incursion passes me by then so be it, Eve is a big universe.
yea, all the best corps post their stuff on youtube 
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Alt FTW
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:42:00 -
[15]
What worries me about it is that it is just another step in CCP's continuous push to weed out solo players from this game.
I don't mind (care) if a feature is added that I won't/can't use, but CCP should understand that there are a lot of players out there without the inclination to join corporations (for whatever reason). Trying to force them to do so anyway will just mean losing a significant customer base.
Also, those response above ("stop being a carebear, etc.) or responses in other threads ("MMO means you have to socialise and become my BFF, otherwise you're doing it wrong") are getting really old and tiresome. Just let people play the game they want to play it, please.
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
I'm glad we finally get some NPCs that actually can fight back, this will be glorious.
Pretty much this. Incursion should be pretty awesome. And if you don't like the thought of NPCs screwing up your missions, either
A) Go kill them
B) Grind up some standings with another agent and keep a jump clone there.
Option B is what I did a long while back, in case I should need to move out of my current home. It's not hard to do at all.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/ |
Garekell
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:54:00 -
[17]
Ignore the rude folks that feel a need to shout 'Carebear!' whenever someone doesn't beat off over pvp. Fighting people in internet spaceships seems to make them feel superior for God knows what reason.
Anyway I know many folks in game that are interested in the incursions, but not at all happy about the negative effects the incursions bring with them. Or how it is being used to try to force participation in an activity, or cause you inconvenience if you chose not to. It's a stick not a carrot. Also the fact that only the most effective fleet gets ANY reward. The last thing I think I would enjoy is fighting for an hour, two, or three then getting nothing.
On the plus side I am guessing Eve is big enough that the chance the incursions are going to impact your particular area of space very often is pretty low.
My concern is what I like about Eve is that I can choose what I want to do when I want to do it pretty much. Eve is mainly the way I relax after a hard day's work, so if I log on too often and find I can't do what I want, and instead have to go fight some incursion or be inconvenienced by leaving a region during my limited playtime, well, there are other games out there.
I have a wait and see attitude. But yes, I know many people are giving it a jaundiced eye for now.
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Not the character creator, or the rocket buffs, or the learning skills. I mean the actual Incursions.
When I see CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic. This isn't so much about the idea of my own gameplay being interrupted; It's more about the unfortunate implications it makes about CCP's design staff. If you've got a mechanic that people won't want to participate in, and you try and poke them with a stick to make them participate, you're only going to **** them off. On the other hand, you could argue that PvP or NPC corp taxes are like this, but even then you have Empire Space, and NPC corp taxes are a reasonable tradeoff for wardec immunity.
With most new features, the worst that happens is that nobody cares enough to participate. But Incursions may actually have a negative impact if they're done poorly. I have little doubt they'll be popular for the first couple of weeks, but after the honeymoon period dies off, I don't know. I guess I just can't help but feel that if CCP had really wanted to develop group PvE content, they could have executed it with a little more class. And I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't going to end well.
But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly.
Thoughts? Opinions?
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:29:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Takseen on 29/11/2010 21:31:57
I'm not that bothered by it personally. The penalties are as you say inconvenient rather than crippling, and I'm perfectly capable of moving system also.
The rewards better be ultra lucrative though, to keep people clearing the Incursions after the initial wave of excitement is over. 0.0 Incursions will probably get cleared anyway to remove the cyno effect, but I could see empire incursions being left up indefinitely if they're not in a major hub.
Edit : Oh, and they need to add a random event where a Sansha Titan warps onto grid and uses an oldschool Doomsday weapon then warps out again. Since they're apparently turning it into World of Evecraft they may as well go all the way :P
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani
Originally by: chriskun
Originally by: Cikulisuy
i think you should stop being a carebear.
I second this motion.
I 3rd/minute this ...
The motion carries
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: FOl2TY8
I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence.
Yeah, I use that excuse too.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:37:00 -
[20]
I think we are missing the original question from the OP:
Is it good for the game of EVE for CCP to add a feature to the game that is not attractive because it is well made, but because if you do something other than participate in it, you get penalized?
This question applies to ANY feature, not just Incursion. Example: one of the main complaints about Incarna is people saying they do not want to be penalized if they choose not to walk.
Is using a stick instead a carrot a good idea?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:41:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/11/2010 21:42:56
Incursion is good. It's CCP's reply to those who believed hi sec = bear honey spot.
The only thing I don't know if it's good is the prize rewarding. In Warhammer Online (inventors of public quests) everyone who participated could have a chance to win loot, if this CCP version will only prize a closed group of specialized people soon the public quests will be deserted by all but them. Would be a pity. IE I'd like to join with a battleship and know I'll have a chance to win something and not just to use cubic meters of ammo with no hope.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:42:00 -
[22]
There's both a stick and a carrot though. They just have to make sure the carrot is significantly bigger than the stick. And I think leaving the stick in is important to make it feel like the invasion actually *matters*. If its just a bunch of dungeons that spawn and you can do them if you want but its totally cool if you just wanna ignore them and keep grinding, that doesn't feel very sandboxy.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar
United Systems Navy
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:43:00 -
[23]
I see these Incursions as very similar to the "public quests" available in Warhammer Online. The game it self sucked, but it had some original potential, and had a few interesting features.
The public quests I felt were a welcome pve addition to the MMO genre, and I think they would be a welcome, albeit more random and temporary, addition to Eve Online.
If you'd seriously rather grind your face against more level 4s than take part in a dynamic and random live event with the potential to drop good loot, I don't know why you play Eve.
Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:48:00 -
[24]
I can't wait for incursions in the following places and to hear the subsequent whines.
Jita
Perimeter
Dodixie
Mostu
Auvergne
Hek
Rens
Illinfrik
Frarn
Cat
Well thats about it. Im sure there are some other systems are needed.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Garekell
Ignore the rude folks that feel a need to shout 'Carebear!' whenever someone doesn't beat off over pvp. Fighting people in internet spaceships seems to make them feel superior for God knows what reason.
Anyway I know many folks in game that are interested in the incursions, but not at all happy about the negative effects the incursions bring with them. Or how it is being used to try to force participation in an activity, or cause you inconvenience if you chose not to. It's a stick not a carrot. Also the fact that only the most effective fleet gets ANY reward. The last thing I think I would enjoy is fighting for an hour, two, or three then getting nothing.
On the plus side I am guessing Eve is big enough that the chance the incursions are going to impact your particular area of space very often is pretty low.
My concern is what I like about Eve is that I can choose what I want to do when I want to do it pretty much. Eve is mainly the way I relax after a hard day's work, so if I log on too often and find I can't do what I want, and instead have to go fight some incursion or be inconvenienced by leaving a region during my limited playtime, well, there are other games out there.
I have a wait and see attitude. But yes, I know many people are giving it a jaundiced eye for now.
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Not the character creator, or the rocket buffs, or the learning skills. I mean the actual Incursions.
When I see CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic. This isn't so much about the idea of my own gameplay being interrupted; It's more about the unfortunate implications it makes about CCP's design staff. If you've got a mechanic that people won't want to participate in, and you try and poke them with a stick to make them participate, you're only going to **** them off. On the other hand, you could argue that PvP or NPC corp taxes are like this, but even then you have Empire Space, and NPC corp taxes are a reasonable tradeoff for wardec immunity.
With most new features, the worst that happens is that nobody cares enough to participate. But Incursions may actually have a negative impact if they're done poorly. I have little doubt they'll be popular for the first couple of weeks, but after the honeymoon period dies off, I don't know. I guess I just can't help but feel that if CCP had really wanted to develop group PvE content, they could have executed it with a little more class. And I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't going to end well.
But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I'm trying to take the wait and see attitude here as well but I don't see it ending well. Ever tried getting people to organise against a (small) local group of griefers? I can't imagine having any kind of success here either. Worst case scenario, I might actually play starcraft II beyond the first few missions. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Takseen
There's both a stick and a carrot though. They just have to make sure the carrot is significantly bigger than the stick. And I think leaving the stick in is important to make it feel like the invasion actually *matters*. If its just a bunch of dungeons that spawn and you can do them if you want but its totally cool if you just wanna ignore them and keep grinding, that doesn't feel very sandboxy.
Exactly. This game needs more dynamic PvE and it needs to feel like events are actually occurring in the world instead of NPCs hanging out in various complexes waiting to be popped for the goodies they contain.
As it is now, all of EVE--but especially high-sec--is much too static. These incursions will mix things up and change the landscape of the cluster. It may not physically change the map, but it will make certain areas dangerous that were previously happy fun farming-land and I think this is nothing but a good thing. It will change mission-running, trade routes, mining, even piracy with powerful Sansha ships camping gates and the like.
I tried soloing one of these sites in a decently-tanked battleship on Singularity a while back, and got wtfpwned in about 30 seconds by a few cruisers and a battleship, so don't expect an easy fight.
I absolutely think that this expansion is exactly the shot in the arm (or at least part of it) that EVE's PvE needs right now. |
Zantris
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Posted - 2010.11.30 01:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Zantris on 30/11/2010 01:16:35
Meh, people will just take the path of least resistance. When they put the tax on NPC corps, tons of player made 1-2 man corps for their mission runners.
With Incursion, people will just fly or jump-clone to another system with a L4 agent and bypass the irritation.
I think its poorly designed. I'm sure it will do OK to start off as people are interested in trying it out, but after the initial interest wears, I doubt they'll utilized much. You aren't going to make people do something they don't want to do, and I really don't see the point in trying.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.30 01:19:00 -
[28]
I think the implicit "encouragement" to take part due to incusion effects is just an accident of design rather than an intentional effort to get people involved. This is the company that doesn't see the need to complete development of new features before releasing them. I don't think they really plan on that level.
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I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Lagn Gita
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Posted - 2010.11.30 01:41:00 -
[29]
just want to point out the sansha invasions are a carebear feature to the herp derps above.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lagn Gita
just want to point out the sansha invasions are a carebear feature to the herp derps above.
Not really. The real carebears are the ones complaining about it, saying how it's going to interrupt their farming activities.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
But maybe I'm just worrying needlessly.
Yes.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:26:00 -
[32]
Yeah, uh, guys? Sansha Incursions are carebear content. It's Highsec Group PvE. It may be high risk low reward Highsec Group PvE, but it's still Highsec Group PvE. When you participate in incursions, you're expected to win. CCP may dress it up in threatening terms and edgy trailers, but it's still basically just raids with penalties for nearby quest grinders.
Just because it's carebear content that attempts to **** on other carebear content, doesn't mean it isn't still carebear content. It's just that now, they want you to be a particular kind of carebear. Specifically, a grey one with a lot of spikes.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Fart Taco
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:29:00 -
[33]
I thought anyone who participated got LP... thats the real reward from this anyway...
Also it will be nice watching an incursion appear and tons of bots dieing. Hopefully they will make them have a higher chance of originating in highsec systems with an ice field :P
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Boinz
Caldari
Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Max Cetera
Quote:
Anybody else worried about Incursion?
Are you worried about Sanshas invading your ass ?
more like leaving in the case of the SC
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Guess what I'm wearing.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Yeah, uh, guys? Sansha Incursions are carebear content. It's Highsec Group PvE. It may be high risk low reward Highsec Group PvE, but it's still Highsec Group PvE. When you participate in incursions, you're expected to win. CCP may dress it up in threatening terms and edgy trailers, but it's still basically just raids with penalties for nearby quest grinders.
Sounds like you're an expert in making wild guesses.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Sounds like you're an expert in making wild guesses.
That may be so, but there were almost no guesses there, and those that were are hardly "wild".
It is in highsec, it is group PvE, it MAY be high risk low reward (which would be an argument against carebear status, not for), it does punish nearby "quest grinders".
About the only guesses I made was that A: They're like raids, which I think is a pretty fair assumption given the data we've got so far, and B: That you're expected to win, which I'm basing primarily on the fact that all PvE content in MMOs is designed to be beaten, because if it wasn't, they'd just make the rats invincible and not give you any rewards for killing them.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:27:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Sounds like you're an expert in making wild guesses.
That may be so, but there were almost no guesses there, and those that were are hardly "wild".
It is in highsec, it is group PvE, it MAY be high risk low reward (which would be an argument against carebear status, not for), it does punish nearby "quest grinders".
About the only guesses I made was that A: They're like raids, which I think is a pretty fair assumption given the data we've got so far, and B: That you're expected to win, which I'm basing primarily on the fact that all PvE content in MMOs is designed to be beaten, because if it wasn't, they'd just make the rats invincible and not give you any rewards for killing them.
Actually, it's not just hi-sec. Incursions hit low and null sec space as well. Fittingly, the challenge and rewards are greater in low and null sec.
Second, not all of the Incursion encounters are there to be beaten for a reward. Some are true hazards. If you've seen the Sansha gate camps in low-sec SiSi, then you'd know they can be rather deadly.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Actually, it's not just hi-sec. Incursions hit low and null sec space as well. Fittingly, the challenge and rewards are greater in low and null sec.
You can also mine and rat in lowsec. Does that mean mining and ratting are no longer carebear content?
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:35:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Actually, it's not just hi-sec. Incursions hit low and null sec space as well. Fittingly, the challenge and rewards are greater in low and null sec.
You can also mine and rat in lowsec. Does that mean mining and ratting are no longer carebear content?
Straw man argument. I'm not implying anything by my correction of your assertion outside the correction itself. Incursions are not hi-sec only events.
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Gallians
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:37:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Actually, it's not just hi-sec. Incursions hit low and null sec space as well. Fittingly, the challenge and rewards are greater in low and null sec.
You can also mine and rat in lowsec. Does that mean mining and ratting are no longer carebear content?
I am pretty sure ratting isn't carebear content. Or so the bastards that blow up my ratting ships would suggest
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Straw man argument. I'm not implying anything by my correction of your assertion outside the correction itself. Incursions are not hi-sec only events.
Sorry, I did indeed take implication from it when perhaps I shouldn't have. My bad.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.30 05:15:00 -
[42]
Wait a sec there.. can you scan those sanshas at the gates with your d-scan?
Cause if you can't and those camps are qualified enough to take out BRs(*) we might be in for some small PI price increases 
(*) Pure speculation without any informed background, unfortunately didn't run into them on Sisi yet to test this out (=talking out my ass)
Public Idea Tracker | 24 Hour PLEX |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.30 08:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Actually, it's not just hi-sec. Incursions hit low and null sec space as well. Fittingly, the challenge and rewards are greater in low and null sec.
You can also mine and rat in lowsec. Does that mean mining and ratting are no longer carebear content?
They never were. "Carebear" is a mindset, not a type of content.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.30 10:18:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Wait a sec there.. can you scan those sanshas at the gates with your d-scan?
Cause if you can't and those camps are qualified enough to take out BRs(*) we might be in for some small PI price increases
(*) Pure speculation without any informed background, unfortunately didn't run into them on Sisi yet to test this out (=talking out my ass)
The info I read on the Sisi forum is that there aren't any Sansha gatecamps in highsec. In lowsec, I have no idea if you can scan them or not, but probably not since normal rats can't be scanned either. Probably best to stay clear of Incursion zones entirely in lowsec.
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Fat Willy
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:07:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Takseen
The info I read on the Sisi forum is that there aren't any Sansha gatecamps in highsec.
So what does the Sansha incursion mean for the hi-sec living Astro-Sims who are mining/trading/L4 mission running... nothing?
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:18:00 -
[46]
Not worried at all, im sure CCP finds way to nerf even this expansion just like all the previous ones...
I do however hope CCP has learned something and actyally hired usability experts to work on those user interfaces. Programmers just cant make good interface for user.
PS. please CCP fix scinece&industry interface, 11 clicks to remotely launch inventin job on pos, thats mouse killer.
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Eyup Mi'duck
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dasola
PS. please CCP fix scinece&industry interface, 11 clicks to remotely launch inventin job on pos, thats mouse killer.
Guess you're not into planetary extraction then... that is THE mouse killer!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:26:00 -
[48]
Quote:
You can also mine and rat in lowsec. Does that mean mining and ratting are no longer carebear content?
I dare say that mining in low sec is carebear content... for those who go pop the miner!
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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stumpy999999
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:33:00 -
[49]
Here is some new stuff
"oh noes!" "different stuff will happen!!"
yes
"CCP are bastards that screw up our lives!!!"
errr?
-------------------------------------------------
Hey, we are getting new stuff to play with. Roll with it. Any stuff you think may make it better then send it in.
I'm expecting the execution of it to be OK, not perfect, but OK. What will really make this fly is if a portion of the player base runs with it.
Give it a go, if it falls on it's ass then no foul, but you should have a go before you hammer it.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Magnus Orin
I see these Incursions as very similar to the "public quests" available in Warhammer Online. The game it self sucked, but it had some original potential, and had a few interesting features.
The public quests I felt were a welcome pve addition to the MMO genre, and I think they would be a welcome, albeit more random and temporary, addition to Eve Online.
If you'd seriously rather grind your face against more level 4s than take part in a dynamic and random live event with the potential to drop good loot, I don't know why you play Eve.
+1
The minority that will be upset are solo players that add nothing to the game anyway.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Yeah, uh, guys? Sansha Incursions are carebear content. It's Highsec Group PvE. It may be high risk low reward Highsec Group PvE, but it's still Highsec Group PvE. When you participate in incursions, you're expected to win. CCP may dress it up in threatening terms and edgy trailers, but it's still basically just raids with penalties for nearby quest grinders.
Its not all in high sec, and please dont mention raids or quests in here.
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:59:00 -
[52]
stop panicking people needlessly
people playing an mmo but unable to play with their corporation mates as it affects rewards have stuck with the game and never been crying on forums about it.
now they are getting some content.
solo players you have had the cream, time to share
I hope phantasm bpcs drop often.
Hoppit!
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feminakitten
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:03:00 -
[53]
Raids, Quests, Mobs, Raids, Quests, Mobs, WoW. I just did it, lol rotflmao. /me Hangs head in shame.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:03:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Takseen on 30/11/2010 12:03:39
Originally by: Fat Willy
Originally by: Takseen
The info I read on the Sisi forum is that there aren't any Sansha gatecamps in highsec.
So what does the Sansha incursion mean for the hi-sec living Astro-Sims who are mining/trading/L4 mission running... nothing?
As the OP mentioned, it means a mild inconvenience. Traders will be unaffected, apart from maybe any changes in demand of their stuff. Miners probably won't be able to keep mining as I think the Sansha belt rats are still in highsec. Missioners will lose 50% of bounties, 10% of their resists( IE 85% kinetic resist becomes 84% kinetic resist), and 10% of their damage. The fact that even these fairly tame effects are enough to disturb anyone is kinda sad, really.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:09:00 -
[55]
Originally by: feminakitten
Raids, Quests, Mobs, Raids, Quests, Mobs, WoW. I just did it, lol rotflmao. /me Hangs head in shame.
Right you have gone and done it indeed, -DKP for you.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:19:00 -
[56]
Well, you carebears wouldnt enter 0.0 to join in with blob warfare, so CCP is bringing it to your doorstep!
Originally by: CCP Capslock
OH GOD THE TESTING
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting in order to "encourage" participation in incursions, this does not really fill me with confidence that incursions are going to be an enjoyable gameplay mechanic.
I haven't seen any indication of CCP nerfing mining/missioning/ratting?
Links?
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Commander Shipping
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Garekell
people are giving it a jaundiced eye
Wow, i had to look that up in the dictionary! Bravo!
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:36:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Alt FTW
I don't mind (care) if a feature is added that I won't/can't use, but CCP should understand that there are a lot of players out there without the inclination to join corporations (for whatever reason). Trying to force them to do so anyway will just mean losing a significant customer base.
This is my biggest concern as well. Even though I have been in a corp that was operating in 0.0.
Problem is you can't force people to go where they don't want to go. We have seen it with NPC corp taxes, all that did was push some people out of the NPC corps into single player corps to avoid the taxes.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hecatonis
i am a carebear, and i am really excited about this.
after i get my hands on the shiny new ship i will be looking for a corp that is going to be doing this.
it should be great
You'll have a lot of fun with this, instead of pimped local tanks you'll get to enjoy the fun of using buffer + logi setups. Hoping the hi sec ones go fairly large so that larger player corps / alliances grow to fill this niche.
If enough people get into this then once these players have got themselves comfortable flying in far more PvP orientated setups I'm hoping they start deccing each other in order to fully compete over the incursions.
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Sealiah
Minmatar
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Care Factor
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:46:00 -
[61]
As far as I recall, the sanshas in incursions will have the AI of sleepes... Meaning drones will be rendered useless... My problem with it is that I've actually seen drones getting less and less useful ove time in EVE. Drone boats don't stand a chance fighting sleepers, drone boats will be useless against incursions. Not only we still have the useless, terrible and utterly ugly drone interface which does not show damage, nor health while inside the drone bay and does not suppot using an F key to send em, but now they won't be able to fight at all in the next feature.
I call for making drones useful in PVE except for grinding level 4 missions...
For now if you don't use sentries - they'll get popped. You have to constantly launch them and take them back in incursion stuff.
Plus, I'm concened about the pirates (biggest carebears in eve picking up targets only when they don't stand a chance), I suspect that it would be logical to stop all concod aid in the systems that have incursions happening. It would make it quite funny ,especially in the bigger hubs. And will the faction navies engage the sanshas?
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:48:00 -
[62]
To all the whiners out there, do the maths. I doubt your home system will be affected by an incursion more than once a year. Far more likely that those wanting to take part will end up whining that it is such a long way to find one.
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Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions. |
Rusty Waynne
Caldari
Waynne Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:56:00 -
[63]
I have no intention of ever participating in Incursions. So for me this is more of a nuissance than anything.
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:03:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Forum Guy on 30/11/2010 13:06:03
You only have to look at WoW's event recently where the elements were attacking two cities to see that forced participation does not really work. Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok.
Problem with the elemental invasion was that every two - three hours the two cities would effectively shut down and only high levels could participate in the event anyway. Auction house staff disappeared so did post boxes and even flight masters. Where this was the same event happening over and over even the 80s were getting bored with it. People in the end where just standing around waiting for the event just to time out.
All that repeated event achieved was a lot of annoyed people who were glad when it had finally stopped.
Edit: And from what I mean by this 'Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok'. Those that do not wish to join don't have their game disrupted.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:03:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Forum Guy
You only have to look at WoW's event recently where the elements were attacking two cities to see that forced participation does not really work. Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok.
You cant really compare what happens in a kids game to what is happening in Eve.
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Anne Arqui
Minmatar
Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:04:00 -
[66]
Meh Incursions .. don't really see the added value.
Rocket fixes ftw!
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Forum Guy
You only have to look at WoW's event recently where the elements were attacking two cities to see that forced participation does not really work. Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok.
You cant really compare what happens in a kids game to what is happening in Eve.
Of course you can, it's not just a kids game it's a family game. There are many adults that play WoW. Probably more adults than what play this.
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Jno Aubrey
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:48:00 -
[68]
For anyone worried about incursions, I think we can all rest assured that if CCP finds that it is causing carebears to quit EVE in droves that poor ol' Sansha will end up taking one for the team.
After that, the next expansion will be EVE Online: Excursions where CCP will introduce a whole new lineup of luxury yachts.
________________________________________
Always choose the lesser of two weevils! |
leich
Amarr
bish bash bosh
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:49:00 -
[69]
This is going to be the worst expansion ever.
I dont know why they bother bringing in Content like this that forces you to play taking away the sandbox feel of the game.
Who did they consult before coming up with this idea?
If it effects to many poeple they will just stop playing the game.
once again CCP drops the ball.
Mabey they should have asked the player base what they wanted i would much rather they bring out no expansion and fix some of the current bugs not bring out new unwanted content,
10/10 worked perfectly as they were. They just needed to invole better AI and more random locations.
STOP NOW CCP Before you release another stupid expansion!
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.30 14:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: leich
This is going to be the worst expansion ever.
Nah.
New portraits > PI clickfest!
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Iceni
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Posted - 2010.11.30 14:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Jno Aubrey
For anyone worried about incursions, I think we can all rest assured that if CCP finds that it is causing carebears to quit EVE in droves that poor ol' Sansha will end up taking one for the team.
After that, the next expansion will be EVE Online: Excursions where CCP will introduce a whole new lineup of luxury yachts.
Yes it sounds like its the solo player, or those with time-limited access to EVE who will once again come off worst from the Sansha incursions. Some TLC for this sizeable (and profitable) part of the EVE community is long overdue, methinks.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.11.30 14:43:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Tarasina on 30/11/2010 14:43:24
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Forum Guy
You only have to look at WoW's event recently where the elements were attacking two cities to see that forced participation does not really work. Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok.
You cant really compare what happens in a kids game to what is happening in Eve.
It is about human behavior, no matter the age. Boring and pointless content is boring and pointless.
I'm not saying Incursions will be, we will have to wait and see but feels like they should balance it more, *POLISH IT*.
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Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.30 15:15:00 -
[73]
Perhaps it has already been stated elsewhere, but will incursions cause permanent damage?
For example, let's say a huge fleet of Sansha invade the Jita system. And while there is some fight, the Sansha fleets drive off the players. Eventually when Sansha either heads elsewhere or is driven off, many of the stations in the system are either a smoldering hunk of scrap metal, or ~worse~, outright destroyed. Agents in those stations are dead or missing and items the players had stored there either as market or personal materials would be lost.
Of course, there would be the huge uproar if the market crashed due to the destruction of Jita 4-4, but what other incentive is there for players to band together to save the system?
While the loss would hurt, it would seem more "alive".
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 15:35:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 30/11/2010 15:35:24
Im missing how this expansion "nerfs" mission running/mining etc... as posted in the OP. Bring me up to speed here?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.30 15:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Im missing how this expansion "nerfs" mission running/mining etc... as posted in the OP. Bring me up to speed here?
He's talking about the actual Sansha incursions coming in January, which will reduce your tank and damage output against NPCs and reduce bounty payments in the constellations hit by the incursions.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Im missing how this expansion "nerfs" mission running/mining etc... as posted in the OP. Bring me up to speed here?
He's talking about the actual Sansha incursions coming in January, which will reduce your tank and damage output against NPCs and reduce bounty payments in the constellations hit by the incursions.
Ah, did not realize it effected the whole constellation. Thank you.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.01 02:06:00 -
[77]
CCP prefers to use a stick rather than a carrot. The carrot requires creativity. Using the stick makes them feel like they've got big weeners. Given the choice between coming up with a carrot (something they just don't quite have the creativity for) or having the illusion of a bigger weener...........well.......isn't really a choice, is it?
-Windjammer
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Kais Thule
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.01 03:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Kais Thule on 01/12/2010 03:01:52
Yes I'm aware it's a forum but my god you guys like to b***ch, it's happening so you need to deal with it. Lots of people here seem so afraid of change and want to snap at CCP for everything they do. Where are your ideas for better mechanics (within logical bounds)or your own ideas for improving the game?
inb4 post getting flamed.
This feels like a semi expansion, given that incarna is actually making a significant change that IMHO won't be dumbing down the game but adding more immersion. So long as walking in stations doesn't wind up being a waste of time and just pure eye candy.
P.S I'm a newbie of about a year so try not to cry too hard about what I said.
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Vin Polo
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Posted - 2010.12.01 03:38:00 -
[79]
Originally by: feminakitten
Raids, Quests, Mobs, Raids, Quests, Mobs, WoW. I just did it, lol rotflmao. /me Hangs head in shame.
Femina...you are an evil kitty
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Zantris
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Posted - 2010.12.01 03:44:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Its not all in high sec, and please dont mention raids or quests in here.
But that's what it is. It's a raid.
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Zantris
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Posted - 2010.12.01 03:56:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kais Thule
Edited by: Kais Thule on 01/12/2010 03:01:52
Yes I'm aware it's a forum but my god you guys like to b***ch, it's happening so you need to deal with it. Lots of people here seem so afraid of change and want to snap at CCP for everything they do. Where are your ideas for better mechanics (within logical bounds)or your own ideas for improving the game?
I think if you remove the negative side effects of incursions you basically accomplish the same goal, which is delivering an additional bit of content. You then scale the rewards to the point that people start actually doing the content. Positive reinforcement is better than Negative reinforcement... or at least that's what my local dog trainer tells me.
See, quick and easy fix to make everyone happy... except the PvPers that will never actually bother with Incursions but will constantly defend them just to **** on carebears. |
Ira Theos
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Posted - 2010.12.01 04:01:00 -
[82]
Confirming that Incursion appears to be the worst piece of useless tripe that has come down the pipe to date. I will not be participating and it will have no effect on me, since I have long since given up any activity that involves combat in Eve. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.01 04:10:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ira Theos
Confirming that Incursion appears to be the worst piece of useless tripe that has come down the pipe to date. I will not be participating and it will have no effect on me, since I have long since given up any activity that involves combat in Eve.
Ignorance is bliss huh?
Sig.Learning skills vote. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.12.01 05:33:00 -
[84]
Originally by: leich
I dont know why they bother bringing in Content like this that forces you to play taking away the sandbox feel of the game.
LOL. This is my favorite complaint. Because god knows the definition of a sandbox is where everything works along perfectly predictable static lines, where nothing comes along that inconveniences your plans... yeah. Or maybe that's just the whiner's definition.
Frankly stuff like this is a longtime coming. Should be more of it, and should have it happened to us sooner. Should be NPC FW stuff invading an urinating in hi-sec cherrios, should be giant space whales roaming lowsec eating people, weird ass spacial rifts causing bizzare shiite to happen in random systems, etc. Would make the game alot more entertaining.
But then again, it might interrupt "your" mission-running / mining / plexing or w/e. And we just couldn't have that...
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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Jita Alt666
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Posted - 2010.12.01 08:33:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Jita Alt666 on 01/12/2010 08:33:59
I don't understand this thread.
1. People are complaining about forced group work comparing these features to wow failures. Eve is not wow. The mechanics of Eve promote group play. Groups own sovereignty. Groups own wormholes. Groups own moons. Groups own the market. I am willing to bet that where ever an incursion appears there will be corporations in close proximity who will see the potential profits and will attempt to quell the incursion.
2. Nerf claims. Eve is a single shard. What happens 3 jumps over to you is related to you. I believe CCP tried to market this as the butterfly effect. PVE "butterfly effect" appeared in wormholes (each wormhole class has different penalties and bonuses) now PVE "butterfly effect" has been included with Incursions. This gives a sense of the epic scope of eve to the many, it will inconvenience a few. But the majority of players in any game become disenfranchised with the static and the stale.
3. Stupid Novelty Argument. The features that are brought into the game and fail are faded out. T2 BPO Lotteries. Learning Skills. Pos based Sov. The features that capture players imagination stay. Wormholes. Complexes. Faction Warfare. Arguing against a feature because it might not have staying power is redundant. Eve has many features, many of which don't appeal to the masses. New features don't need to, they simply need to capture the imagination of enough players to create sustainable interest. If the rewards for killing off an Incursion are high enough, corporations who find it fun gallivanting around space tracking them will form and hunt incursions.
4. Stupid CCP using a stick. Incursions are active opt in. There maybe small penalties for not opting in, but you don't have to. It is up to the player. If the carrot (reward) is enough to keep a small percentage of players happy fighting Sanshas across Eve then the carrot out weighs the stick.
I think the reason I don't understand this thread is due to my WOWdar going off the rails. Seriously, remember the butterfly effect and remember that if you want to play by yourself in the sandbox anyone (including bits of code named sanshas) can **** on your sandcastle. That is Eve.
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.12.01 09:08:00 -
[86]
It should be no surprise.
All MMO's have the same horrible desire, the same malicious and hateful intent.
To somehow force the wallflowers to interact with other people.
PS: I move that we hereby begin referring to solo players as wallflowers.
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Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
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Posted - 2010.12.01 09:14:00 -
[87]
Ultima Online... those of you who remember from the way back machine...
Once did a similar EvP GM assisted kinda thing. An invading force pretty much swept across the servers slaughtering poorly defended towns and it's denizens. It took us alittle while and heavy losses to get organize and repel the invasion. clans backstabbed other clans taking advantage of the chaos. The streets were flooded with emo tears. Many butts were very hurt. In the end alot of the empire fell to the invasion and we managed to survive in pockets of well defended territory, even managed to keep 1 server free and clear. All in all everyone had plenty of stories to tell, and it was a huge success.
If done correctly this is going to be an epic struggle of life and death. If done poorly, it's going to be a nuisance as we wtfpwn the npc's so we can get on with doing our normal everyday stuff.
-------------------------------------------------
"Vae Victis" -Brennus |
Funesta
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Posted - 2010.12.01 15:18:00 -
[88]
I don't quite understand how the incursions hurt mission runners or miners or other highsec solo activities. Could someone spell out the exact problem for me?
Or is this mostly someone not wanting to jump a few systems over when an incursion hits to continue mining/missioning in a nearby system instead of their favorite system?
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2010.12.01 16:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Originally by: Ira Theos
Confirming that Incursion appears to be the worst piece of useless tripe that has come down the pipe to date. I will not be participating and it will have no effect on me, since I have long since given up any activity that involves combat in Eve.
Ignorance is bliss huh?
********************
I assume you think I am ignorant of the fact that the Incursion forces will seek out and destroy players regardless of their choice... I am not so uninformed. It is merely due to the fact that my play style in Eve does not require me to ever undock, so unless the Incursion can figure out a way to dock and engage me (or unless CCP enables combat and walking in stations by NPCs)... it is entirely irrelevent to me.
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Brannoncyll
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Posted - 2010.12.01 19:05:00 -
[90]
I'd like to say something to all of the pvpers who are replying with posts laden with contempt for high-sec carebears. You NEED the carebears. They mine the ore and make the ships and ammo that you use to fight with. They do PI and mine the ice you use for your death star POS. They salvage the components to make the rigs you use to pimp out your gankmobiles. They loot the named items you outfit your ships with. Without the carebears YOU would have to do those things yourself. You should be thanking the carebears for doing the things that you hate so that you can spend your time on things that you enjoy. 
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leich
Amarr
bish bash bosh
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Posted - 2010.12.01 19:11:00 -
[91]
Quick someone start a facebook group and we can put an end to this stupid patch!
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.12.01 19:23:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
Originally by: leich
I dont know why they bother bringing in Content like this that forces you to play taking away the sandbox feel of the game.
LOL. This is my favorite complaint. Because god knows the definition of a sandbox is where everything works along perfectly predictable static lines, where nothing comes along that inconveniences your plans... yeah. Or maybe that's just the whiner's definition.
Frankly stuff like this is a longtime coming. Should be more of it, and should have it happened to us sooner. Should be NPC FW stuff invading an urinating in hi-sec cherrios, should be giant space whales roaming lowsec eating people, weird ass spacial rifts causing bizzare shiite to happen in random systems, etc. Would make the game alot more entertaining.
But then again, it might interrupt "your" mission-running / mining / plexing or w/e. And we just couldn't have that...
QFT...and my HQ is in Hi-sec. 
------------------------------------------------
-21EL- Tac-Ops |
Jita Alt666
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Posted - 2010.12.01 19:59:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Brannoncyll
I'd like to say something to all of the pvpers who are replying with posts laden with contempt for high-sec carebears. You NEED the carebears. They mine the ore and make the ships and ammo that you use to fight with. They do PI and mine the ice you use for your death star POS. They salvage the components to make the rigs you use to pimp out your gankmobiles. They loot the named items you outfit your ships with. Without the carebears YOU would have to do those things yourself. You should be thanking the carebears for doing the things that you hate so that you can spend your time on things that you enjoy.
You have never been to 0.0?
Thing this contemptuous individual does:
Mines Arknor and Glittering ice in 0.0 and exports excess to Jita
Runs 3 PI alts to run 2 personal pos and exports excess to Jita
Runs 10/10s and salvages the wrecks to build rigs and exports the excess to Jita
The only thing I don't currently do that you mention is build my own ships and ammo. Lucky I am in an alliance that has a couple of major ship builders who are able to spit out enough hacs logis and even capitals to keep me supplied for the next 3 years.
We do this with the inconvenience of reds trying to screw our processes all the time. We are also doing this with incursions as of yesterday (a 0.0 alliance has already popped a sansha mothership). The folk who are complaining about the incursions in this thread deserve contempt.
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.12.02 01:17:00 -
[94]
The biggest problem with Incursions is the farked up balance of risk vs reward.
Nullsec alliances are the ones that face the greatest compunction and lack of choice about whether to engage an Incursion or not. They cannot simply move elsewhere as they own the space, they cannot simply ignore the Incursion since it shuts down all capital logistics, therefore they more than anyone are forced to engage in this PvE when they more than anyone probably couldn't care less about PvE.
To add insult to injury for them to take part in expelling Incursions from their space is completely pointless from a reward point of view,, since the Sansha mothership BPO doesn't even drop in nulllsec, only in lowsec.
What a fracking waste of time.
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DarkAegix
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Posted - 2010.12.02 01:47:00 -
[95]
Whiny Carebears: "Whaaaaaaa! How will I mine my veldspar and grind the same L4s over and over and over and over!? I don't wanna move constellations!"
Whiny PVPers: "Whaaaa!! This is a PVP game! How dare CCP had PVE content! Waaaaaaaaa!!1"
HTFU'd Carebears: "Yes! Epic fleet and teamwork based PVE content to break the grind of mining/missions!"
HTFU'd PVPers: "Yes! Cooperative team-based play to break the hours of gate-camping! And carebear tears! Delicious!"
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.12.02 02:00:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jita Alt666
We are also doing this with incursions as of yesterday (a 0.0 alliance has already popped a sansha mothership).
I'm curious as to how your nullsec alliance is killing incursions already, since they are not yet on the Tranquility server. 
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/ |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.12.02 02:01:00 -
[97]
I agree with your points and the way incursions is reported to work further supports the 'view' CCP has about how you 'should' be playing their game, despite all their propaganda about doing what you want, they can and will use a stick to make you do what they think you should be doing. I feel that this is just another of many to come sticks we'll all see in various aspects of our gameplay to herd us to do what they think we should be doing, can't stop that train from rolling on through unless you stop supporting the railroad.
The most important thing is that those who don't want to bother with incursions for any number of reasons have PLENTY of time to setup several sites to work out of. This is most important for those players who never leave their system or make less than a handful of jumps in their game time. For the rest of 'us' it just means stocking up a few different places we operate out of or even adding a couple of extra 'bases' to our list of HQ.
Now it remains to be seen if CCP will decide that yes it is too easy to opt out of incursions and we should all be clamoring to get in on them so if you want/try to avoid it they are going to get a bigger stick to make it much harder/impossible for you to do so. IMO doing that would be a really bad mistake but well CCP's been there done that so I won't find myself shocked if they do increase the size of the stick or get more.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.12.02 02:43:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 02/12/2010 02:43:35
Originally by: Isaac Apylon
I'm curious as to how your nullsec alliance is killing incursions already, since they are not yet on the Tranquility server.
Sansha have been attacking in systems for quite a while now, just not the full blown thing.
here was the first one i read of
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.02 03:08:00 -
[99]
I'm perpetually amused by the rampant mocking that tends to occur when somebody dares point out that, hey, there are some potential problems here. Some people seem so caught up in the bloody schadenfreude that they can't possibly appreciate how this could potentially be a bad thing. Just a simple matter of "They're complaining, I'm not. Hahaha, what a bunch of pussies." Of course, this doesn't apply to everybody who disagrees with the concerns. Just a frighteningly large number.
The complaint is that the system-wide nerfs are needless. It's like every so often somebody walks up to you and pokes you with a sharp stick. It's not something that really ruins your day, you can get over it fairly easily, but it's still quite irritating. There seems to be a lot of cheering simply because this feature inconveniences people. No other reason, just "It's a feature which annoys people, F-CK YES THIS IS THE BEST EXPANSION EVER".
If you want to inconvenience players, there are both easier and more productive ways to do it. Inconveniencing players for the sake of inconveniencing players is just ****ing in the drinking fountain. Besides, I'm certain that's not CCP's intention. Or do some of you actually genuinely believe that the primary purpose of incursion is to annoy a large number of CCP's paying customers?
The real questions here are A: why are players being inconvenienced, and B: is it a good idea to do so?
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Strrog
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Posted - 2010.12.02 03:34:00 -
[100]
The way I see it as jsut another nerf to PVP recovery. THe highsec alts be it your minus 10 security status main or regual null sec PVPer will have to grind double the mission time to replace say a HAC, which you can replace with insurance in 2-3 hours of level 4 mission running with the incursion this can lead you to 4-6 hours. EVE PVP is already heavy on logistics and expensive as it is for non hardcore players. It is truly horrible to see extra disruption to PVP as it stands right now. It will also add negative impression if you are just a chill out player that wants to blow some ships up, doing 1 or 2 missions a day after work.
And before you start with carebear bull **** let me tell you that expensive mods you 0.0 pros sell for half a bill is directly supporting your PVP habbits and that support comes from the high sec bears, without that you proly will need to grind rats anyway doing *carebear stuff* to get your PVP recovery going. AS you can see you need carebears and there tears too I assume lol.
EVE needs all types of players to function smoothly. The incursion seems to be PITA rather then a new *cool* feature.
Me and corpmates looking forward to blow some of those Sunsha mofos anyway XD.
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Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.12.02 03:38:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
The real questions here are A: why are players being inconvenienced, and B: is it a good idea to do so?
I disagree that those are the "real questions." 'Convenience,' in my opinion, takes a back seat to dynamism and challenge. Games that are too predictable or easy get boring quickly.
That getting destroyed in combat means losing of your ship is certainly inconvenient. But it is exactly that kind of harsh loss that makes EVE combat compelling.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.02 04:07:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 02/12/2010 04:07:38
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Originally by: Black Dranzer
The real questions here are A: why are players being inconvenienced, and B: is it a good idea to do so?
I disagree that those are the "real questions." 'Convenience,' in my opinion, takes a back seat to dynamism and challenge. Games that are too predictable or easy get boring quickly.
That getting destroyed in combat means losing of your ship is certainly inconvenient. But it is exactly that kind of harsh loss that makes EVE combat compelling.
You say that they're not real questions, yet you just answered them. You believe it's a good idea to inconvenience the players in this case due to "dynamism and challenge". I'll call you on the challenge bit; You can challenge one group of players without inconveniencing another, and the people who are inconvenienced by incursions aren't really challenged.. They just set up shop elsewhere. Realistically, you wouldn't even continue using the system you're in, so they don't even face the challenges brought on by the sanshas, simply the inconveniences of getting out of their way.
As for "dynamism".. Well, that's reasonable I suppose. Incursions do change the environment of the inconvenienced. Although I'm unsure if the inconvenience is worth the dynamic element.
As for losing your ship, that has a very explicit reason for existing: It drives the economy and serves as a significant feedback loop.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.12.02 04:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 02/12/2010 04:07:38
Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Originally by: Black Dranzer
The real questions here are A: why are players being inconvenienced, and B: is it a good idea to do so?
I disagree that those are the "real questions." 'Convenience,' in my opinion, takes a back seat to dynamism and challenge. Games that are too predictable or easy get boring quickly.
That getting destroyed in combat means losing of your ship is certainly inconvenient. But it is exactly that kind of harsh loss that makes EVE combat compelling.
You say that they're not real questions, yet you just answered them.
Incorrect. I did not answer either the question of A: why are players being inconvenienced, or B: is it a good idea to do so? I stated that convenience is not as valuable as other considerations in game design.
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You believe it's a good idea to inconvenience the players in this case due to "dynamism and challenge."
No, that's not what I said.
Originally by: Black Dranzer
I'll call you on the challenge bit; You can challenge one group of players without inconveniencing another, and the people who are inconvenienced by incursions aren't really challenged.. They just set up shop elsewhere. Realistically, you wouldn't even continue using the system you're in, so they don't even face the challenges brought on by the sanshas, simply the inconveniences of getting out of their way.
Challenge is all about complications. Sniping a slower enemy from a distance is easy. If he has a fast tackler on his side, that adds a complication. If you only have the cap boosters to stay faster for a few minutes, that's an additional complication. Add up enough considerations and you get an engaging challenge.
Incursions complicate the landscape. Systems are not as identical as before. A level 4 Agent in one system may be, absent other considerations, better to run missions for than a level 4 Agent in another system. If an Incursion is occurring at one of those systems, however, that adds a complication.
Incidentally, the 'inconvenience of moving' is the essence of logistics - a challenging and vital part of warfare and fleet ops in EVE.
Originally by: Black Dranzer
As for losing your ship, that has a very explicit reason for existing: It drives the economy and serves as a significant feedback loop.
These are important reasons for that design choice but not the only ones. EVE is slated as a dark, harsh universe and an unforgiving death system combines atmosphere with game mechanics. Additionally, ship loss makes combat more meaningful, heightening excitement in PvP.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.02 04:40:00 -
[104]
Sorry, I probably misinterpreted a few bits of what you said, but I will pick on this: Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Challenge is all about complications.
Yes, but incursions are not challenging for the inconvenienced.
A challenge implies that there's some kind of.. well, challenge. Primarily, choices with variable outcomes. My concern is that when incursions come around, the challenge for the inconvenienced will be nonexistent, because there will be no real choices involved. They'll be unable to continue to exist in their current system, so they'll simply move to another one. Or maybe they'll just not log on for a while. Either way, there isn't much of a challenge there, unless those sansha rats set up remarkably effective gate camps.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.12.02 04:52:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Shaalira D''arc on 02/12/2010 04:53:31
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Sorry, I probably misinterpreted a few bits of what you said, but I will pick on this: Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Challenge is all about complications.
Yes, but incursions are not challenging for the inconvenienced.
A challenge implies that there's some kind of.. well, challenge. Primarily, choices with variable outcomes. My concern is that when incursions come around, the challenge for the inconvenienced will be nonexistent, because there will be no real choices involved. They'll be unable to continue to exist in their current system, so they'll simply move to another one. Or maybe they'll just not log on for a while. Either way, there isn't much of a challenge there, unless those sansha rats set up remarkably effective gate camps.
I disagree that those aren't real choices.
Where you want to set up base is an important choice. Keener mission runners will evaluate the attractiveness of one mission hub over another, or one available agent over the next. Miners choose systems based on available belts, nearby market hubs, how crowded the system tends to be, and so forth. Often this choice involves future plans. If you are setting up an alliance that wants to eventually move into Nullsec, for example, it's useful to base in a nearby Empire region to learn the area.
How to react when your base of operations becomes compromised is also a real choice. If the Sansha arrive in force and begin ruining your profits, you will have to weigh the costs and benefits of your alternatives. This may include moving to another system, making use of your contacts to get in touch with people interested in and capable of removing the Sansha, or removing them yourself if you have the resources and allies. The attractiveness and availability of those choices will depend on your own capabilities - an exercise in judgment.
In the test server, Sansha gate camps in low-sec and null-sec are mean and nasty. Only CCP can say whether there'll be similar gate camps for hi-sec.
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Larton Dretta
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Posted - 2010.12.02 05:38:00 -
[106]
All the "leet" people telling others to stop being carebears might aswell save their precious breath, Incursions aren't about the incredible AI or anything like that. AI is just that, an AI, it's a program that's predictible and it'll never be challenging to a competent human being at the level we have in EVE. It won't be any different than running a WH site or a L4, just that you'll probably have more friends an an FC.
Incursions will be just like any group activity in this game. If you can find nice people to do them with, you'll have fun, but if you'll have to put up with random people who don't understand the game, just get by unnoticed due to playing by themselves etc. etc. then you won't bother, because it's not worth your nerves.
And that's it, no "leet" skills or anything, being afraid of losing a ship etc. etc. Stop jumping on people that run missions or mine minerals for no reason each time there's a concern comming from that group of players.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.02 08:59:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Funesta
I don't quite understand how the incursions hurt mission runners or miners or other highsec solo activities. Could someone spell out the exact problem for me?
Or is this mostly someone not wanting to jump a few systems over when an incursion hits to continue mining/missioning in a nearby system instead of their favorite system?
It wonÆt hurt mission runners or miners. They will simply move out of the effected constellation if the incursion annoys them. The laugh in this case is itÆs not mission runners or miners whining about incursion. ItÆs the tough guy wannabeÆs who anticipate that mission runners and miners will whine about incursion.
Ironically, itÆs more likely to be the low sec guys that do the most whining. Incursions will disturb their gate camp and station game ops as well as whatever light ratting they might do.
Regards,
Windjammer
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Brianna Bloodfang
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Posted - 2010.12.02 10:46:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Brianna Bloodfang on 02/12/2010 10:48:59
forum fail FTL.
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Brianna Bloodfang
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Posted - 2010.12.02 10:48:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz
Edited by: Lemmy Kravitz on 01/12/2010 09:20:31
Ultima Online... those of you who remember from the way back machine...
Once did a similar EvP GM assisted kinda thing. An invading force pretty much swept across the servers slaughtering poorly defended towns and it's denizens. It took us alittle while and heavy losses to get organize and repel the invasion. clans backstabbed other clans taking advantage of the chaos. The streets were flooded with emo tears. Many butts were very hurt. In the end alot of the empire fell to the invasion and we managed to survive in pockets of well defended territory, even managed to keep 1 server free and clear. All in all everyone had plenty of stories to tell, and it was a huge success.
If done correctly this is going to be an epic struggle of life and death. If done poorly, it's going to be a nuisance as we wtfpwn the npc's so we can get on with doing our normal everyday stuff.
Side note: Right on to the dude that said "Sansha Invasion" if left unopposed will **** **** up in a system if they stay there long enough. Stations destroyed, sheep ****d, children eaten. Emo tears flow as players realize Jita will take years to rebuild station by station.
This. I played UO on lake superior, remeber fighting the battle of trinsic. only thing i see here is there, you at least got the reward from the kills you made. (assuming you lived to loot them that is...) but here, you get NO reward at all for your risk unless your in the fleet thats the most efficient (no loot or salvage from anything you kill) , and its simply far too easy to pack up and leave.
casual players IMHO will probably try it, get wtfpwned one time with no reward, say **** that ****, and leave the area. at LEAST give the casual player SOME type of reward for participating rather than an insurance payout for the ship that inevitably gets pwned.
and PS: JESUS F'in CHRIST fix the forums already. firefox fails to work for me, hell, even the IN GAME BROWSER wont hold a login for more than 20 seconds. really?
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Aznwithbeard
Minmatar
Twin Paradox
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Posted - 2010.12.02 11:07:00 -
[110]
Wow seriously? all this whining. TRY IT ON SISI before you post here. If you have no idea what youre talking about, don't complain. Ive tryed it in nulsec, and seriously, we did a lot of the lighter stuff with 10 people or less once we got the hang of it ( logal tank + logi usually). Nulsec rats are generally more of a PITA then high sec rats, and Im sure incursions will be the same way (as in plexs, belt rats, DED complex, etc). Rats on gates, if theyre anything like what I have seen from the incursions on sisi in nulsec, are tough if youre not expecting it. SURPRISE, you're now gunna learn how to effectively avoid a gatecamp, or die. If you dont like PVP thats fine, this is CCPs christmas present to you. Tougher NPCs for you to kill, cuz you can only save the damsel so many times before you stick your head thru your monitor. I really dont see what you guys are all complaining about..... new PVE content, hell they even gave you guys a cute little salvage boat, Miners got their little PI thing, what was the last thing a PVPer got (other then adding probes to overview, nice job CCP). Is there some magical way i can look on the other side of a gate for a camp if i dont have intel? no, there isnt. I jump blind, i cross fingers, I spam warp. So, Shh. If it bothers you that much, seriously, quit. please, you're adding nothing to the community.
Guns don't kill people. onowait. |
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.12.02 11:25:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 02/12/2010 11:25:24
Originally by: Jita Alt666
Originally by: Brannoncyll
I'd like to say something to all of the pvpers who are replying with posts laden with contempt for high-sec carebears. You NEED the carebears. They mine the ore and make the ships and ammo that you use to fight with. They do PI and mine the ice you use for your death star POS. They salvage the components to make the rigs you use to pimp out your gankmobiles. They loot the named items you outfit your ships with. Without the carebears YOU would have to do those things yourself. You should be thanking the carebears for doing the things that you hate so that you can spend your time on things that you enjoy.
You have never been to 0.0?
Thing this contemptuous individual does:
Mines Arknor and Glittering ice in 0.0 and exports excess to Jita
Runs 3 PI alts to run 2 personal pos and exports excess to Jita
Runs 10/10s and salvages the wrecks to build rigs and exports the excess to Jita
The only thing I don't currently do that you mention is build my own ships and ammo. Lucky I am in an alliance that has a couple of major ship builders who are able to spit out enough hacs logis and even capitals to keep me supplied for the next 3 years.
We do this with the inconvenience of reds trying to screw our processes all the time. We are also doing this with incursions as of yesterday (a 0.0 alliance has already popped a sansha mothership). The folk who are complaining about the incursions in this thread deserve contempt.
Why did you need to make stuff up? Incursions is in January.
But it is true that most PvP'ers take part in the PvE / Industry economy, and generally in a pretty efficient fashion since their main goal is to generates funds for their PvP.
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Moonmonkey
Amarr
Orange Clover
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Posted - 2010.12.02 11:37:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Forum Guy
You only have to look at WoW's event recently where the elements were attacking two cities to see that forced participation does not really work. Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok.
You cant really compare what happens in a kids game to what is happening in Eve.
Eve is as much a kids game as Wow, infact wow is a better game in many ways. Fun, no need for more than one account, no forced rate of progression or lack there of. As much as I like Eve I realy think the devs are not delivering in progressing their game, it realy feels like their game is running out of creative steam. Incursion is more patch like than expansion, the last few expansions where left unfinished and under developed. They update the graphics but remove a lot of the finer touchs, engine trails for exsample. PI dot to dot click feast. Only childern would defend that.
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Alt FTW
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Posted - 2010.12.02 11:53:00 -
[113]
It never ceases to amaze me how hard it apparently is for people on the internet to disagree without insults and being obnoxious.
Anyway, as a few (myself included) posters have already pointed out, if you are a solo player or a casual small corp player, incursions have no positive effect on your game play whatsoever. If they come to your system, incursions only inconvenience/degrade your game play. They don't add anything.
I have absolutely no problem with not every expansion catering to my individual needs, but CCPs consistent disdain for a pretty large segment of their customer base (solo/casual small corp players) is really starting to annoy me.
It's also completely unnecessary, and as such bad business. There is no reason why you can't cater to both segments of players, as the "carrot & stick" posts above have already pointed out.
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SkinSin
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Posted - 2010.12.02 11:53:00 -
[114]
I have a few concerns, which are:
1) The removal of rewarding everyone who takes part, and instead only rewarding the fleet who does the most damage. If I am to take part and I spend hours trying to get rid of the Sansha, I can effectively come away with absolutely nothing if another fleet pips me to the post. After 1 or two attempts, there is simply going to be no point in try to take part. Spend hours killing Sansha -> get ship killed (or get multiple ships killed) -> nothing. Hardly seems worth it.
2) Some of the reward mechanics that CCP have posted up seem awkward. Like no reward at the end for people in pods. So I get my ship blown up just before the incursion ends and I get nothing despite being in the fleet that made the most damage. I asked about this twice in the incursion devblog thread when they announced it and never got a response.
3) Encouraging you to fleet with people that you don't know (mainly for people not in corps). So you have to find someone to fleet up with. That will let you join. That you can trust. That will then not try to screw you (and yes, it does happen). If it was a true group feature, why not just let people join in the action without needing to enter a fleet.
4) It seems that the only way CCP can encourage people to take part is to give them a stick. The rewards do not seem to be anywhere near high enough to be a carrot. This is all wrong. They should be sweetening the deal for participants, not making it inconvenient for everyone until they sort it out.
I can see a lot of noobs taking part, getting blown up, getting no reward and quitting.
tl;dr:
1) Make it so that people can just turn up and take part rather than being part of a pre-existing group.
2) Reward all those that take part rather than just some of them.
3) Use more carrot and less stick to encourage participation.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.12.02 16:35:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 02/12/2010 16:44:13
Originally by: Forum Guy
You only have to look at WoW's event recently where the elements were attacking two cities to see that forced participation does not really work. Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok.
Problem with the elemental invasion was that every two - three hours the two cities would effectively shut down and only high levels could participate in the event anyway. Auction house staff disappeared so did post boxes and even flight masters. Where this was the same event happening over and over even the 80s were getting bored with it. People in the end where just standing around waiting for the event just to time out.
All that repeated event achieved was a lot of annoyed people who were glad when it had finally stopped.
Edit: And from what I mean by this 'Although if it's done in such a way as not to force people into doing it but they are able to join if they wish, then that would be ok'. Those that do not wish to join don't have their game disrupted.
Just as the Incursions in EVE these events in WoW were (a) easily avoidable (there were even evacuation portals by NPCs in case you were trapped in the city; not sure if the were timed synchronously in both cities - but if not you could have just spent the 5 minutes to take the tram and continued business as usual) and (b) tiered in difficulty (I could participate in stacking sandbags in SW with a lvl 10 character even if I couldn't help fighting the Elementals).
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.12.02 20:31:00 -
[116]
Originally by: SkinSin
I have a few concerns, which are:
1) The removal of rewarding everyone who takes part, and instead only rewarding the fleet who does the most damage. If I am to take part and I spend hours trying to get rid of the Sansha, I can effectively come away with absolutely nothing if another fleet pips me to the post. After 1 or two attempts, there is simply going to be no point in try to take part. Spend hours killing Sansha -> get ship killed (or get multiple ships killed) -> nothing. Hardly seems worth it.
2) Some of the reward mechanics that CCP have posted up seem awkward. Like no reward at the end for people in pods. So I get my ship blown up just before the incursion ends and I get nothing despite being in the fleet that made the most damage. I asked about this twice in the incursion devblog thread when they announced it and never got a response.
3) Encouraging you to fleet with people that you don't know (mainly for people not in corps). So you have to find someone to fleet up with. That will let you join. That you can trust. That will then not try to screw you (and yes, it does happen). If it was a true group feature, why not just let people join in the action without needing to enter a fleet.
4) It seems that the only way CCP can encourage people to take part is to give them a stick. The rewards do not seem to be anywhere near high enough to be a carrot. This is all wrong. They should be sweetening the deal for participants, not making it inconvenient for everyone until they sort it out.
I can see a lot of noobs taking part, getting blown up, getting no reward and quitting.
tl;dr:
1) Make it so that people can just turn up and take part rather than being part of a pre-existing group.
2) Reward all those that take part rather than just some of them.
3) Use more carrot and less stick to encourage participation.
I assume you are speaking primarily of Incursions that happen in High Sec.
1) If they made it so that rewards were for anyone that turned up it would make the whole thing "much" more exploitable. Ninja-ing in on kills, scooping your loot, etc.
2) People in pods and cloaked ships could easily lurk on grid and reap the rewards that YOU earned, thus they are excluded.
3) I see plenty of carrote, and little if any stick, involved in this. Worse case scenario you hit a different agent for a couple of days if you do not wish to participate.
All in all this fits perfectly with the "sandbox" environment, where anything including environmental variables can be introduced that affect your play. And that is really what the Incursion is for those that do not wish to directly take part, an enviromental variable much like what you see in the more exotic wormhole systems. Except that this one happens only rarely in your home system and is of breif duration... exceptionally brief if you help motivate others to deal with the situation. It also brings with it the possibility of gaining exotic rewards if you are inclined to get involved.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Renan Ruivo
Caldari
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
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Posted - 2010.12.02 21:03:00 -
[117]
If CCP proposed the complete removal of al PVE content in EVE, 80% of the people on this forum would agree that this would definatly be a step in the right direction.
Oh, wait...
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I like woman because breasts |
SkinSin
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Posted - 2010.12.02 22:42:00 -
[118]
Edited by: SkinSin on 02/12/2010 22:44:02
Originally by: Ranger 1
1) If they made it so that rewards were for anyone that turned up it would make the whole thing "much" more exploitable. Ninja-ing in on kills, scooping your loot, etc.
Which makes it much more in line with the sandbox and the nature of Eve than the current proposal, don't you think?
I don't see why loot would be any different than it is now. Stealer gets flagged to the person whose wreck it was and just let the ninja salvagers in.
The whole design is currently exploitable. Send 80 ships in in a fleet. Just before the Mothership dies, get 40 of them to leave. Easy incursion for maximum rewards. The current design is also highly in favour of organised groups moving round and participating as that same group rather than encouraging strangers to club together and help out when they can?
Originally by: Ranger 1
2) People in pods and cloaked ships could easily lurk on grid and reap the rewards that YOU earned, thus they are excluded.
Which is why I specifically mentioned my ship getting blown up just before the incursion ends. If the fleet I am in deals the most damage, they get rewarded and I don't get any of the reward I earned because I am in my pod? This is what I wanted clarification on.
Originally by: Ranger 1
3) I see plenty of carrote, and little if any stick, involved in this. Worse case scenario you hit a different agent for a couple of days if you do not wish to participate.
Really? I see more stick than carrot, but it could just be a matter of perspective.
And there are other unanswered questions too, all asked in devblog thread.
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edit: I almost forgot something fairly important. You do realize that if you enter a fleet with people in high sec that they cannot shoot you without Concord responding right? I suppose you might be at risk of a suicide gank, but no more so than at any other time, say mining in a belt. And you will likely be in a ship that will be much more difficult to take down. Keep that in mind.
Yes I know this, but there are still ways of manipulating fleets to grief people who have joined.
Edit: I'm not against incursions, I just want them to be properly implemented, with proper thought to the ways in which people should be asked to co-operate, what they get as a reward and proper constraints on ways to game the system.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.12.02 23:38:00 -
[119]
I am greatly concerned with incursions. I've tried them on the test server, they are boring and grindy just like sleepers sites. And just like sleeper sites, you don't get any reward till you've mopped it all up. Unlike sleepers, these npc's actually camp gates effectively and you get massive ship penalties (cyno jamming being the worst). I really have no interest in killing sleepers Mk.II but with the current design, I'll either have to log off for a week or go run the sites every time they visit my constellation.
This is very different from all the other content updates. The others allow you to simply ignore them if you aren't interested. Incursions do not, you are forced to participate or log off till they go away. This is very un-sandboxy and forced pve (really boring pve at that) is not a good way to keep veterans like me around. CCP also messed up the fleet sizes for them. I mean honestly, who the hell can put together a 50 man gang in low sec that isn't going to be trying to gank it's own members? I can't think of a single low sec alliance that can do that other than the militia's (even that's pushing it). And with the cyno jamming, I don't see IT alliance farming them either, too much hassle. High sec guys certainly won't come over, they'd get owned by the npc's, never mind nasty guys like me. In high sec a 50 man gang could work, same with null sec but low sec just doesn't allow that.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Billy Kidd
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Posted - 2010.12.03 00:03:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Funesta
I don't quite understand how the incursions hurt mission runners or miners or other highsec solo activities. Could someone spell out the exact problem for me?
Or is this mostly someone not wanting to jump a few systems over when an incursion hits to continue mining/missioning in a nearby system instead of their favorite system?
When the test server had incursions running on them, 7 whole constellations had an incursion in them. Every system in those constellations had:
1. belt and gate rats replaced by very tough Sansha rats. These are intended to discourage gate-camping and mining, and are dangerous enough to require a dedicated gang to destroy.
2. NPC bounties reduced by 50%. This to discourage NPC activities that do not involve killing the Sansha Incursion.
3. Damage output and resistances reduced (10% penalty in the system I was in). This is to further discourage activities that do not involve the Incursions.
4. Constellation-wide cynosural jamming. This is said to prevent larger corps from jumping capital ships into the system to fight the Incursions. This ostensibly levels the playing field between smaller corporations and large alliances.
The only way to remove these disruptions is to clear the Sansha from each combat site in each system, which only gives rewards to the fleet that does the most damage. Any fleet too small or too large will not get the rewards. Solo players get 0 rewards even if you do manage to clear the site.
These mechanics are designed to encourage players to fleet up with each other, despite the fact that joining a fleet of strangers using remote reps (almost a necessity considering how powerful the Sansha are) is a good way for a nefarious fleet member to blow you up using CONCORD or war targets.
Source
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Dracira Dracc
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Posted - 2010.12.03 00:11:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Alt FTW
What worries me about it is that it is just another step in CCP's continuous push to weed out solo players from this game.
I don't mind (care) if a feature is added that I won't/can't use, but CCP should understand that there are a lot of players out there without the inclination to join corporations (for whatever reason). Trying to force them to do so anyway will just mean losing a significant customer base.
I agree.
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Marianne Taggart
Brutor Junker and Scrapper Swarm
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Posted - 2010.12.03 00:32:00 -
[122]
I think the Incursions are a great idea, most of the complaints would vanish if the incursion rats have bounties. It really turns most people off from the idea because of the risk with no reward unless you are in the best fleet. Even half bounties would be something.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.12.03 02:45:00 -
[123]
The cyno jammer and ship penalties are what turn me off of it. I have no interest in using this new content, but I have no choice. It's not like w-space or null sec sov fights that I can simply ignore if I choose to. This is the first new chunk of content that I've had forced on me since I started playing 3 years ago, all the rest has been optional or a redesign of a current system.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Strrog
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Posted - 2010.12.03 06:53:00 -
[124]
Originally by: King Rothgar
The cyno jammer and ship penalties are what turn me off of it. I have no interest in using this new content, but I have no choice. It's not like w-space or null sec sov fights that I can simply ignore if I choose to. This is the first new chunk of content that I've had forced on me since I started playing 3 years ago, all the rest has been optional or a redesign of a current system.
Strongly agree, also this whole forced upon you idea reminds me of WoW bane Arenas, I jsut do not like this type of attitude.
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Billy Kidd
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Posted - 2010.12.03 14:48:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Strrog
Originally by: King Rothgar
The cyno jammer and ship penalties are what turn me off of it. I have no interest in using this new content, but I have no choice. It's not like w-space or null sec sov fights that I can simply ignore if I choose to. This is the first new chunk of content that I've had forced on me since I started playing 3 years ago, all the rest has been optional or a redesign of a current system.
Strongly agree, also this whole forced upon you idea reminds me of WoW bane Arenas, I jsut do not like this type of attitude.
bane arenas? what are those? and how did people react to them?
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.12.03 16:30:00 -
[126]
To the op.
yeah I'm ****ting myself!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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