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Conflicts Arise in Great Wildlands

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Velios	Posted - 2005.02.03 16:20:00 - [91] Edited by: Velios on 03/02/2005 16:23:09 Would you really consider working with Keiretsu ever again? For Keiretsu to work alongside Foundation the following things would need to transpire. ò A balanced approach to the security and mining of GW By this I mean that ALL corps on either side would agree that there is a time for fighting, and a time for mining. During times of threat to the security of GW, ALL corps would have to step up and help defend!!! No corps would dismiss the threat while they carry on mining until the last possible second. Attitudes like this set a bad example to all, and promote a self serving, greedy and non-team based culture - that inevitably ends up in conflict between the honest and the greedy corps. We at Keiretsu believe that the corner stone to any successful 0.0 Alliance is a strong military - that HAS to come first and it requires equal participation from ALL corps involved in any kind of co-operative effort. THERE IS NO REASON WHY CORPORATIONS CANNOT LEND A HAND TO THE DEFENCE OF THE REGION AND STILL BE ABLE TO MINE / NPC - WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SUFFER CORPS THAT ONLY LOOK AFTER THEIR OWN WALLETS ABOVE THE SECURITY OF THE VERY SPACE THEY MAKE THEIR ISK FROM. The Keiretsu hold this belief very strongly - Greedy, selfish and opportunistic corps would not be tolerated. If we could have a pledge from ALL corps that wish to settle in the region that they could manage to follow the above simple rule then we would certainly be close to a resolve. ò Official Lines of Communication between factions would need to open Foundation / Keiretsu would HAVE to be in permanent contact, monitoring traffic through the borders and helping each other to identify & deal with threats to security. During the last NAP, there was much so animosity between our factions... the peace was uneasy, and barriers were placed between effective communication - people just did not want it enough at the time I guess to make it work. The "Leaders" of both factions have no problem what so ever having sensible debate in teamspeak... it was the actions that followed (mass mining, unwillingness to co-operate on all levels) that cast doubt upon what had been very productive discussion. We would need: ò PERMANENT SHARED TEAMSPEAK (with all member corps present) ò SHARED IN-GAME CHANNEL ò Allocation and co-operative management of resources Foundation and Keiretsu would HAVE to find a way to distribute the resources of GW more evenly, reducing pressure on certain key mineral systems. The management of these systems would also have to be controlled as a co-operative effort. This would be to the financial benefit of all. Once again, I stress that the over-mining of ark-rich systems by individuals would be heavily disliked - we MUST learn to grow up and be sensible about things. Ex-Fade Union corps need to look long and hard at why they failed last time. If it was because the very culture of ISK before DEFENCE then you should agree that it is time to toughen up and be ready to take arms with your fellow men - anything less is an insult. edited because i did this [i] [/b] clever huh?
Maire Devylin	Posted - 2005.02.03 16:41:00 - [92] Quote: Would you really consider working with Keiretsu ever again? For Keiretsu to work alongside Foundation the following things would need to transpire. It may surprise you, but, many on each side probably would if we managed to work someting out that was mutually beneficial to all involved, especially in the area of defending the region. I will take this to the Foundation for discussion. Until I have something with which to respond, I will refrain from posting further on this in a public manner. Thank you. ______________________ There are three truths: my truth, your truth and the truth, I endeavor to find the latter.
Harcole	Posted - 2005.02.03 16:58:00 - [93] is it me, or you both saying the same thing and thinking the same of the other... now that I stand back and read this thread as a neutral. Both alliances are say exactly the same thing... As for e-bay comments I didn't like that, I mined U3K that friday night, I can assure you that money is in isk and is in my characters account. I am Carebear, but I also fought with the fleet. And when Moo came (second time) I offered to form a gang and meet them with any person regardless of corp, the response... NADA. Each to there own I guess, Keiretsu (spelt correct this time???) owned them in B-Vip9 while the foundation fleet sat in Egbringer. me? I lost my BB to the Keiretsu fleet (can I say insta pod-killed ) It was fun I didn't care. But you need to stop saying the same thing and find a reason for this war.
Treebeard dk	Posted - 2005.02.03 17:57:00 - [94] I agree, but the big issue is on the defending part of GW, foundation think it should be free for all to mine and roam the region where Keiretsu (yes, you spelled it right :)) believe it needs control to secure the area from being claimed by another alliance, thats what this war is all about. The Black Widows
Maire Devylin	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:10:00 - [95] Harcole, I think we do, basically stand for the same thing in this region that is why I am very hopeful that a compromise can be worked out. I flew with and fought along side Keiretsu pilots during the NAP and would have done so during the m0o attack had I been online. BTW, good job to Keiretsu on that battle. ______________________ There are three truths: my truth, your truth and the truth, I endeavor to find the latter.
Andy Falck	Posted - 2005.02.03 21:31:00 - [96] I am glad to see that there are people that still want to solve this in a diplomatic and respectful manner, from both sides. This, makes me warm at heart. Now i urge representatives from Keiretsu and Foundation to once again sit down at the table and work something out that will last for a long time forward. Regards Andy Falck, CEO [KTW] Knights of the Wild
Kyogen Steiner	Posted - 2005.02.03 21:37:00 - [97] If you want neutral moderators im sure some INFOD including myself can help out. We want to see this situation resolved. For the sake of old friendship and a strong GW. ------------------------------------------------ We are the bringers of hatred!
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.02.03 21:55:00 - [98] Edited by: Grimpak on 03/02/2005 22:22:14 Originally by: Velios Edited by: Velios on 03/02/2005 16:23:09 Would you really consider working with Keiretsu ever again? For Keiretsu to work alongside Foundation the following things would need to transpire. ò A balanced approach to the security and mining of GW By this I mean that ALL corps on either side would agree that there is a time for fighting, and a time for mining. During times of threat to the security of GW, ALL corps would have to step up and help defend!!! No corps would dismiss the threat while they carry on mining until the last possible second. Attitudes like this set a bad example to all, and promote a self serving, greedy and non-team based culture - that inevitably ends up in conflict between the honest and the greedy corps. We at Keiretsu believe that the corner stone to any successful 0.0 Alliance is a strong military - that HAS to come first and it requires equal participation from ALL corps involved in any kind of co-operative effort. THERE IS NO REASON WHY CORPORATIONS CANNOT LEND A HAND TO THE DEFENCE OF THE REGION AND STILL BE ABLE TO MINE / NPC - WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SUFFER CORPS THAT ONLY LOOK AFTER THEIR OWN WALLETS ABOVE THE SECURITY OF THE VERY SPACE THEY MAKE THEIR ISK FROM. The Keiretsu hold this belief very strongly - Greedy, selfish and opportunistic corps would not be tolerated. If we could have a pledge from ALL corps that wish to settle in the region that they could manage to follow the above simple rule then we would certainly be close to a resolve. ò Official Lines of Communication between factions would need to open Foundation / Keiretsu would HAVE to be in permanent contact, monitoring traffic through the borders and helping each other to identify & deal with threats to security. During the last NAP, there was much so animosity between our factions... the peace was uneasy, and barriers were placed between effective communication - people just did not want it enough at the time I guess to make it work. The "Leaders" of both factions have no problem what so ever having sensible debate in teamspeak... it was the actions that followed (mass mining, unwillingness to co-operate on all levels) that cast doubt upon what had been very productive discussion. We would need: ò PERMANENT SHARED TEAMSPEAK (with all member corps present) ò SHARED IN-GAME CHANNEL ò Allocation and co-operative management of resources Foundation and Keiretsu would HAVE to find a way to distribute the resources of GW more evenly, reducing pressure on certain key mineral systems. The management of these systems would also have to be controlled as a co-operative effort. This would be to the financial benefit of all. Once again, I stress that the over-mining of ark-rich systems by individuals would be heavily disliked - we MUST learn to grow up and be sensible about things. Ex-Fade Union corps need to look long and hard at why they failed last time. If it was because the very culture of ISK before DEFENCE then you should agree that it is time to toughen up and be ready to take arms with your fellow men - anything less is an insult. edited because i did this [i] [/b] clever huh? indeed it's a nice proposal. [EDIT] removed stuff I supposed that it was correct but infact was not (?) ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
0Virtu0	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:14:00 - [99] Edited by: 0Virtu0 on 03/02/2005 22:17:55 Originally by: Treebeard dk I agree, but the big issue is on the defending part of GW, foundation think it should be free for all to mine and roam the region where Keiretsu (yes, you spelled it right :)) believe it needs control to secure the area from being claimed by another alliance, thats what this war is all about. I'm not sure why this fake statement is still stuck to the Foundation name, but our version of open space isn't a sort of "Pure Blind" region policy where there is no control and everyone can fly through, perhaps many of you are just viewing the words in an incorrect way. Again, in the initial meeting when someone brought up the topic, we all agreed that we didn't want the "omg anyone and their grandma can come here" definition of open space. I believe this war goes further than opinion and misconception of territory control policies. NOTE: This post reflects the opinions/whatever by 0Virtu0 only and may not reflect the opinions of others, so bah. ---------------------------------- I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature.
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:14:00 - [100] Edited by: Sir JoJo on 03/02/2005 22:14:00 Originally by: Velios We at Keiretsu believe that the corner stone to any successful 0.0 Alliance is a strong military - that HAS to come first and it requires equal participation from ALL corps involved in any kind of co-operative effort. ok from a side note that sounds like something i for sure know the corp u are fihgting now could have written them self. Originally by: Velios Ex-Fade Union corps need to look long and hard at why they failed last time. If it was because the very culture of ISK before DEFENCE then you should agree that it is time to toughen up and be ready to take arms with your fellow men - anything less is an insult. i can only see 1 or two corp of those u are fighting and where in FU who think more of ISK then protecting there region, and its NOT ALTZ/VIRII, BSC and wolfenrecon for sure, i am not sure of all the others corps there, but thats a insult to say that they care more for isk then there region in FADE ALTZ and VIRII had 50% of all kills out of 23 corps Thats all from my point of wiev
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:20:00 - [101] Originally by: 0Virtu0 I'm not sure why this fake statement is still stuck to the Foundation name, but our version of open space isn't a sort of "Pure Blind" region policy where there is no control and everyone can fly through, perhaps many of you are just viewing the words in an incorrect way. ....I better correct my post then... ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Neekol	Posted - 2005.02.04 00:00:00 - [102] Did nobody from CA learn how politcs ruin the alliance? just kill the foundation and stop talking about it. Most are really sick of hearing the ALTZ/EGCO and all the others whine, ***** and complain.........all to hear the EX ca corps have more "meetings" for hours at a time. STOP!!!!!! KOS ALL OF THEM. They only want to turn it into a carebear arena with all those arc belts, the do NOT care about the territory at all. Is that not all they ever wanted over there? stop the madness and kick them the hell out of there. NO MORE MEETINGS
0Virtu0	Posted - 2005.02.04 00:10:00 - [103] Originally by: Neekol Did nobody from CA learn how politcs ruin the alliance? just kill the foundation and stop talking about it. Most are really sick of hearing the ALTZ/EGCO and all the others whine, ***** and complain.........all to hear the EX ca corps have more "meetings" for hours at a time. STOP!!!!!! KOS ALL OF THEM. They only want to turn it into a carebear arena with all those arc belts, the do NOT care about the territory at all. Is that not all they ever wanted over there? stop the madness and kick them the hell out of there. NO MORE MEETINGS I wuv alts too! Oh, and we care about the Great Wildlands, why do you think we're here? Please stop trying to stir up trouble, or at least use your main account. Oh...and what "more" meetings? I remember one. Note: The blah blah blah, you get the point, I'm posting off my opinion while making up disclaimers, yay! ---------------------------------- I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature.
IndigoRed	Posted - 2005.02.04 00:26:00 - [104] Yes, shut your trap, Neekol. Let Flounderation join Sashimi rather than get kicked out. Trust me, GW will be a much nicer place with Flounderation in the picture.
Neekol	Posted - 2005.02.04 00:29:00 - [105] Bullox. You care about the richness of the territory, you did not earn the right to be there. your corp proved already it wants it for selfish reasons. You were kicked out of curse for being greedy and underhanded. We wont be sitting by and watching that happen again. There are a bunch of us, that will just keep causing friendly fire to make sure there is never any successful nap. We are not weak, we do not need any nap.
Velios	Posted - 2005.02.04 01:50:00 - [106] I think Neekol needs to not use an alt to say things like that. If he truly speaks from within the Keiretsu then he should show himself - there will be no problem.
IndigoRed	Posted - 2005.02.04 03:04:00 - [107] I think Neekol has the wrong idea. You need Flounderation to join! Yes!
Neekol	Posted - 2005.02.04 03:14:00 - [108] Originally by: Velios I think Neekol needs to not use an alt to say things like that. If he truly speaks from within the Keiretsu then he should show himself - there will be no problem. i will keep discussing with guns, all this "talking" is a complete waste of our time and when corps start doing their own thing and not staying part of the "alliance" you will remember this warning that most want nothing to do with all this poltical BS. It should have all died with CA. THE FOUNDATION IS CONCRETE LAYING ON THE FLOOR, LEAVE IT THERE
0Virtu0	Posted - 2005.02.04 03:54:00 - [109] Originally by: Neekol Originally by: Velios I think Neekol needs to not use an alt to say things like that. If he truly speaks from within the Keiretsu then he should show himself - there will be no problem. i will keep discussing with guns, all this "talking" is a complete waste of our time and when corps start doing their own thing and not staying part of the "alliance" you will remember this warning that most want nothing to do with all this poltical BS. It should have all died with CA. THE FOUNDATION IS CONCRETE LAYING ON THE FLOOR, LEAVE IT THERE Politics is all in EvE, good or bad, it's what makes 0.0 go around. ---------------------------------- I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature.
Haldane IV	Posted - 2005.02.04 08:40:00 - [110] Edited by: Haldane IV on 04/02/2005 08:41:30 Stating that if, pursuant to a mandate from its Corporation members, an Alliance of which your Corporation is a member attempts to negotiate and/or signs a treaty with a competing faction, you as an individual will not in any event observe the terms of that treaty but will attempt to sabotage it by bringing about "friendly-fire" incidents, is surely a political act in itself (a revolt againt the majority you will be in disagreement with).
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2005.02.04 11:58:00 - [111] Personaly I hope that by the time I get back GW will be under a united flag. I sure hope that Foundation and the Keiritsu (Can't ever get that right now can I?) can work things out. All I wanna do is be shooting at pirates and other people who just wanna mess GW up. And for the alt-guy, if you continue to stir up trouble people will eventually find out and you will be kicked out from whatever corp you are from. And if it's your whole corp doing it your corp will be kicked out, that I am very certain of. Keep up the good work guys! Make GW the region it really can be! Our home
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.02.04 12:06:00 - [112] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 04/02/2005 12:26:40 Originally by: Berak FalCheran Personaly I hope that by the time I get back GW will be under a united flag. I sure hope that Foundation and the Keiritsu (Can't ever get that right now can I?) can work things out. All I wanna do is be shooting at pirates and other people who just wanna mess GW up. Seconded, from the (so far) neutral sidelines. We've historically been on good terms with TOGCO and KTW, but have remained outside the current conflict on purpose. I'd personally love to help defend GW from pirates, slave-traders and other scum, but this current Keiretsu - Foundation conflict just seems like a waste.
Kyogen Steiner	Posted - 2005.02.04 12:25:00 - [113] ok, so if we (INFOD) came down to GW and started shooting at K and F ships like crazy and generally pirating the place, would you guys unite to keep scum like us out? Becase that can be arranged, as the good belivers we are. All we ask for is a donation for the church roof. This conflict seems to have gone past sane discussions and moved over to Egos, misstrust and old grudges. ------------------------------------------------ We are the bringers of hatred!
Neekol	Posted - 2005.02.04 12:33:00 - [114] Edited by: Neekol on 04/02/2005 12:33:25 Originally by: Berak FalCheran Personaly I hope that by the time I get back GW will be under a united flag. I sure hope that Foundation and the Keiritsu (Can't ever get that right now can I?) can work things out. All I wanna do is be shooting at pirates and other people who just wanna mess GW up. And for the alt-guy, if you continue to stir up trouble people will eventually find out and you will be kicked out from whatever corp you are from. And if it's your whole corp doing it your corp will be kicked out, that I am very certain of. Keep up the good work guys! Make GW the region it really can be! Well then you would be surprised who was involved in the "no concrete aloud" campaign? Don't be, you wont even know until it is too late.
Shalmaneser ili	Posted - 2005.02.04 13:58:00 - [115] neekol sounds like a foundation alt to me
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.02.04 14:12:00 - [116] Edited by: Sir JoJo on 04/02/2005 14:13:37 Originally by: Kyogen Steiner ok, so if we (INFOD) came down to GW and started shooting at K and F ships like crazy and generally pirating the place, would you guys unite to keep scum like us out? Becase that can be arranged, as the good belivers we are. All we ask for is a donation for the church roof. This conflict seems to have gone past sane discussions and moved over to Egos, misstrust and old grudges. do it man and shoot some sence into there ship ;) But whit all the War declaration atm i doubt it ;)
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.02.04 15:19:00 - [117] Originally by: Kyogen Steiner ok, so if we (INFOD) came down to GW and started shooting at K and F ships like crazy and generally pirating the place, would you guys unite to keep scum like us out? Becase that can be arranged, as the good belivers we are. All we ask for is a donation for the church roof. This conflict seems to have gone past sane discussions and moved over to Egos, misstrust and old grudges. Interesting idea
Major Bash	Posted - 2005.02.04 15:27:00 - [118] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Kyogen Steiner ok, so if we (INFOD) came down to GW and started shooting at K and F ships like crazy and generally pirating the place, would you guys unite to keep scum like us out? Becase that can be arranged, as the good belivers we are. All we ask for is a donation for the church roof. This conflict seems to have gone past sane discussions and moved over to Egos, misstrust and old grudges. Interesting idea It really is an interessting idea
Kalroth	Posted - 2005.02.04 15:58:00 - [119] INFOD, you are not a neutral corp, your members have been flying with Foundation and shooting at Keiretsu, so don't be fooling yourself as "neutral diplomats". We handled m0o alone, while Foundation was covering themselves in a safespot in Egbinger. As for chances of peace, if it was up to me: zero, none, nada. Foundation fscked us over throughly during the last NAP, it wasn't personal before, it is now. And if Keiretsu should ever go friendly with Foundation, for whatever stupid reason, I'll split, form my own corp and keep on shooting at you guys. If I have anything to say in Keiretsu politics, there's zero chance of making peace. Unless you chose to join Keiretsu of course, then my hands are tied. <sig> 0x4B656972657473752C20746865 0x0D0A 0x57616E7420746F206A6F696E20436F7265546563683F 0x4D657373616765204B616C726F7468206E6F7721 </sig>
Neekol	Posted - 2005.02.04 16:52:00 - [120] Edited by: Neekol on 04/02/2005 16:53:48 Originally by: Shalmaneser ili neekol sounds like a foundation alt to me Do not insult me m8 we are closer then you think Kal, I am not on with this whole foundation situation, I agree with you as well.

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