| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 .. 89 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Meridian Siri
   |
Posted - 2011.01.01 17:20:00 -
[541]
 Originally by: Keta Fraal
Originally by: Musashi IV
CCP its time to get rid of macro users!
Your useless posting on this subject continually serves as an advertisement to new players on the forum.
nothing will come of further discussion on the matter. If you really wanted to make a difference you would petition about suspected macro users.
For the benefit of one that has not read some of the content of this thread; been there, done that. One of the reasons for this thread is that such petitions appear to go nowhere. You can petition macroers until the moons go blue from cold and CCP does not appear to act.
|
Cyaxares II
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 18:19:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 01/01/2011 18:20:31
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Originally by: Musashi IV
CCP its time to get rid of macro users!
Your useless posting on this subject continually serves as an advertisement to new players on the forum.
... which is the very point of this thread? (and of CzechLion's campaign that sparked this thread)
New players reading this thread will either take the countless clues and start running bots by themselves or they will turn away from EVE in disgust before they have (over-)committed to this game.
Both outcomes are not really desirable for CCP (first one leads to long-term issues, second one means direct loss of revenue).
If you want to get a company to do your bidding but are not in a position to vote with your own dollars (because you are addicted, have already invested too much time into this game, don't see any attractive games to switch to, ...) trying to deny that company income from new customers can be a viable approach.
"EVE's economy is run by bots" is a very strong counter to CCP's "sandbox" advertisment and CCP will have a very hard time getting this notion out of people's heads if they don't react before it becomes common knowledge in the wider MMO audience.
As is the benefits of having a "clean" game do not seem to outweigh the cost of banning the bots (and implementing serious countermeasures to prevent botting).
What this thread tries to achieve is adding/threatening to add a substantial "cost of not banning bots" entry into the equation.
|
Market Blackhole
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 18:25:00 -
[543]
Edited by: Market Blackhole on 01/01/2011 18:25:33
341,481,600,000 isk / month
11,382,720,000 isk / day
474,280,000 isk / hour
7,904,666 isk / min
Venal contains 71 Technetium moons. Thats 1 of 9 regions controlled in the north.
And you really think its botters who are the problem? Please.
|
Soma Khan
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 21:32:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
CzechLion's campaign that sparked this thread
checklion is hardly an objective participant in this, having been permabanned for rmt'ing. now, being butthurt at ccp, he's running adverts disguised as interviews for the leading macroers and rmt'ers on his news site
__
|
KaraStarbuckThrace
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 22:02:00 -
[545]
I have to say that 99% of posts on the subject of bots are made by people who have no f**king clue what they are talking about.
If it is so easy then why don't you come up with an effective method of stopping them, and I am not just talking about an idea.. actually go and create it.
To fight the problem you actually have to have a clear understanding on exactly how bots work which many people here have demonstrated they don't have a clue.
The majority of bots work using OCR(optical character recognition) macros, such as Tiny Miner, Stealth miner etc etc. At there basic level they just copy a serious of mouse and keyboard inputs and then just repeat them.
So the most effective way is to run the Eve Client and the bot program within a virtual environment so that you can use you computer without disturbing Eve.
The other method is by using Python Injection. Again at its most basic level this allows you to inject new python code straight into the game client.
People have talked about using a program like Warden... well those people have no idea how Warden works and what a massively abuse to your privacy it is.
Take a look for yourselves.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/blizzard_entert.html
It doesn't make a difference to what you do in game as this will have no effect as the bots will just be able to replicate it.
Changes would have to be made to the client... what changes I don't know.... I have never claimed to know but only that it would be very difficult, a lot more difficult then some people think.
|
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 22:39:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Market Blackhole
Edited by: Market Blackhole on 01/01/2011 18:25:33
341,481,600,000 isk / month
11,382,720,000 isk / day
474,280,000 isk / hour
7,904,666 isk / min
And you really think its botters who are the problem? Please.
That's the income of 7 to 17 bots depending on who you believe. So yes, bots are the problem.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
|
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 22:47:00 -
[547]
Originally by: KaraStarbuckThrace
If it is so easy then why don't you come up with an effective method of stopping them, and I am not just talking about an idea.. actually go and create it.
It's already been suggested. Limit the amount of time per day and account that can be spent ratting or mining, e.g. 2-3 hours/day. Alternatively, put an upper limit on bounties collected in 24h (including missions). Everything above the limit can go to the capsuleer orphans fund. ;-P
Will it remove bots? Nope, but it will make 23/7 botting useless and it will allow human players to compete with botting income with a reasonable time investment per day. Will it affect the player-driven economy? Much less so than botting and people who complain about such a limit should get a life / find something else to do in the remaining online time, like PVP, trading, chatting ...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
|
Bhattran
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 23:26:00 -
[548]
Originally by: KaraStarbuckThrace
I have to say that 99% of posts on the subject of bots are made by people who have no f**king clue what they are talking about.
If it is so easy then why don't you come up with an effective method of stopping them, and I am not just talking about an idea.. actually go and create it.
To fight the problem you actually have to have a clear understanding on exactly how bots work which many people here have demonstrated they don't have a clue.
The majority of bots work using OCR(optical character recognition) macros, such as Tiny Miner, Stealth miner etc etc. At there basic level they just copy a serious of mouse and keyboard inputs and then just repeat them.
So the most effective way is to run the Eve Client and the bot program within a virtual environment so that you can use you computer without disturbing Eve.
The other method is by using Python Injection. Again at its most basic level this allows you to inject new python code straight into the game client.
People have talked about using a program like Warden... well those people have no idea how Warden works and what a massively abuse to your privacy it is.
Take a look for yourselves.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/blizzard_entert.html
It doesn't make a difference to what you do in game as this will have no effect as the bots will just be able to replicate it.
Changes would have to be made to the client... what changes I don't know.... I have never claimed to know but only that it would be very difficult, a lot more difficult then some people think.
You didn't say it but in typical internet style I must retort you think it is too hard and we should all shut up and accept CCP's buy PLEX as the solution for botting.
I haven't seen people say it is 'so easy' I do see people saying it is too hard. Some people do say use warden/punkbuster some say try other things, like you know looking at the programs being used and figure out how to counter them. I'm on the side that if CCP secured their client better along with doing things like analyzing 'player' behavior they could detect with great accuracy who's likely to be a bot. There are other ideas in this thread as well as others that have promise and only CCP can determine what will or won't work I'd hope they wouldn't choose warden/punkbuster 'easy street' crap but use some element to have their client resist tampering or detect a stripped down version being used to play the game.
I don't know what would or wouldn't work but it seems that CCP has largely ignored this problem and if they put some real effort they could do a lot, at least for a while, and if they then continued to do things like randomizing data fields so bot users couldn't so easily read client data that might make it harder to run bots. If CCP keeps working to make botting harder botters have to work to keep up and that helps the 'fight' sitting there and waiting for RMT to happen isn't fighting botting, it is letting people amass so much isk they reach the point of real life greed and try to cash in and not everyone will do that.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
Meridian Siri
|
Posted - 2011.01.01 23:52:00 -
[549]
Originally by: KaraStarbuckThrace
I have to say that 99% of posts on the subject of bots are made by people who have no f**king clue what they are talking about.
If it is so easy then why don't you come up with an effective method of stopping them.....blah, blah, blah....
Changes would have to be made to the client... what changes I don't know.... I have never claimed to know but only that it would be very difficult, a lot more difficult then some people think.
Excellent post. *****es about folks not directly providing solutions (which would be sort of tough, since we don't code the game), then ends up tossing an idea out while admitting he has no idea how to accomplish it.
Many potential idea have been presented here. Some seem pretty reasonable, some not. My suggestion is that if you are going to present an image that you know what you are talking about, at least try harder not to make it obvious that you are a major, clueless tool.
|
Meridian Siri
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 00:01:00 -
[550]
If you can find a good deal on a simple, logical line of reasoning (like a post holiday sale). I would be more than happy to buy you one.
|
|
|
Musashi IV
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 11:56:00 -
[551]
CCP need to get rid of all macro users.
|
laksmi2
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 12:51:00 -
[552]
do u realy think they will make willingly 1/3 of their income go away? ccp will see how far they can go with the macro situation before the games reputation becomes worse and they lose more subscriptions than make profit from macro accounts.
the gms/devs posting here are either lying or have no clue or are too low on the pecking order to know.
why not monitor the most obvious botting systems? even we without a database can see them on the map.
why not check every supercap transaction from the material its built from to the money its bought with?
ccp doesnt want to lose this income and dont want to spend the 30 k $ per month for the additional gms
|
Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 15:30:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Musashi IV
CCP need to get rid of all macro users.
macrobot poster detected.
---------------------------------------
Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
Kalle Demos
Amarr
Hysteria Nexus
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 15:45:00 -
[554]
CCP need to change mining, ratting and all those boring stuff to make it some what hard to bot
Originally by: Kool StoryBro
<---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
Ikathis sihtaki
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 17:12:00 -
[555]
Edited by: Ikathis sihtaki on 02/01/2011 17:15:22
 too bad can't find that old quote from i can't remember who 7 years ago, when teh bots first were being noticed, and the rmt issue arose where CCP said that they will do all they can to keep outside of game mechanics (plex, your personal real life wallet, bots, character trading etc) from having an advantage ingame.
Effin liers.
CCP may as well release and expansion with bots built in for the avg user so we do'nt have to go to the 3rd party programs to keep the same edge as everyone else.
CAN ANYONE ELSE agree that programs like i think it is BACON, and those that tell you who is coming into system with you is bull****?
Then you do a lil diggin of your own and find fail sites like, rpgexploiters.com what a pathetic bunch of gamers we all are turning into.
PLAY THE EFFIN GAME *****ES. |
Musashi IV
|
Posted - 2011.01.03 14:05:00 -
[556]
Stop all macro users!!
|
Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
White Angels.
|
Posted - 2011.01.03 15:29:00 -
[557]
Edited by: Elzon1 on 03/01/2011 15:29:32
Am I the only one that heard of rumors that CCP will be doing a new "Unholy Rage" five times bigger than the previous one
Maybe they have finally been able to develop an automated detection scheme to find all predictable bots/macros, wishful thinking
Woot for a new "unholy rage though"... can't wait to see those PLEX prices drop when that happens (rmt isk demand goes into PLEX's at least temporarily) 
And thats the real reason to do an "unholy rage" thing, moar money for CCP 
Edit: not enough "unholy rage"
|
Musashi IV
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 12:31:00 -
[558]
Its time to remove macro users!
|
Caldari Citizen2323256
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 12:50:00 -
[559]
This thread reminds me. Must feed the chickens.
|
knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention
Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 13:31:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Originally by: Meridian Siri
If your 100 guys in regular fleet fits can loose with impunity (ie. ready and unlimited replacements) this is a severe obstacle for an alliance/corp that is not in the "bot-game". It is hard to argue that the ability to replace losses (extending to capitols and supercaps) at will does not represent a dramatic advantage to an alliance or corp.
subcap ship replacement shouldn't be a problem as long as you consider insurance payouts and have minimal access to decent moon minerals (and if it is a problem, you might want to contact the UN for help^^).
I guess botting really starts to shine when you start playing the supercap game...
Not even with supercaps. If a bot supported corp or alliance can instantly replace lost POS bashing BS fleets it makes a massive difference to how 0.0 works, and we're already seeing this and CCP are ignoring it.
A corp or alliance not using bots cannot endless replace or reimburse members for lost ships, POS towers, JB networks etc as they have a limited income govered by game mechanics and the number of players in that corp/alliance. Fleet armour BS's cost near enough 200m, even with normal insurance and alliance reimbursment it will only go so far before the non botters reach financial meltdown. You also have the issue of getting replacement ships to the local market or getting them brough in by JF.
A corp or alliance botting can just buy up JF pilot alts and buy as many ships as they can get of the market in Jita and them get them shipped locally with there bot paid for JF pilots. This will also cause inflation in these high sec markets meaning normal players not using bots will no longer be able to afford BS's and T2 ships.
As it is things like HAC's, Recons and logistics ships are horribly overpriced right now and this I think will force more casual players out of EVE.
Unless something is done, more people will turn to bots and RMT as its the only way to compete with these guys who've been getting away with it for years.
|
|
|
Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 13:47:00 -
[561]
BUMP.
---------------------------------------
Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
Countess Ponzi
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 13:51:00 -
[562]
What was Unholy Rage???
|
M4cr0 Min3r
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 14:49:00 -
[563]
So you want to stop botting?
Current publically available bots allow you to run multiple characters from 1 PC, using a program which reads the memory used by the EVE client. This then runs a script which dictates the actions. So all those crying captcha fail, as the bot will bypass this entirely.
The only 100% proof method to stop this malarky is for CCP to rewrite at least the client, and possibly some server code, to limit what information is given out, and to assume anything known to the client will be available to the user. An open source client would be ideal.
If you need further info just google the words "Kugutsamen" and "RMT" and read page 8 of the first hit.
|
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 20:26:00 -
[564]
Hm, interesting claims about major alliances / CSM members in the forum thread mentioned in the previous post.
CCP should really try to limit the botting income even if they cannot / do not want to ban all bots. 18b/month from botting is a bit harsh towards the non-botting players who need to invest a lot of time in boring activities to make 1/10th the amount.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
|
Severian Carnifex
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 20:49:00 -
[565]
Edited by: Severian Carnifex on 04/01/2011 20:57:04
I "love" ppl that say "nothing can be done"
that ppl are users of macro or just like to citate CCPs text written between the lines... or are ppl that don't understand that prices of their ships will not go up that much like others macro users are talking becouse more real ppl will start to mine when mining will pay more isk per hour and prices will be balanced...
i don't know why ppl are talking about macros... why "yes - no" voting...
if we can use macro... just say so... real ppl pvp, and macros do all the rest... and EVE become "play with macros online"...
i see many ppl that are thinking about buying macro software becouse they feel stupid... they must play the game to earn isk... and then they are killed and laugh at by ppl that are "PVP-ers" financed by many macro accounts... and that is just stupid...
becouse that this game has more and more macros... and now not only lazy ppl macro or ppl that want real cash for not doing anything... now more and more ppl use macros becouse they want to have fun... and in this game most of fun have ppl that use macros...
well... if you want to have fun without 4 accs runing in backround and macroing... speak now and make CCP do somethig about this...
|
Musashi IV
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 12:44:00 -
[566]
CCP needs to stop macro users!
|
M4cr0 Min3r
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 14:54:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Musashi IV
CCP needs to stop macro users!
In Soviet Russia macro users stop CCP!
|
Pookie McPook
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 16:28:00 -
[568]
The means is already in our hands.
Hulkageddon.
Use it.
Thank you and goodnight.
-----
Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions. |
TheVolga
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 16:47:00 -
[569]
I wonder if CCP have ever thought of making an official eve bot.
Everyone has access to it and can use it for a limited amount of hours per month.
I personally have never botted, but I don't think its much harm if someone sticks on a bot to mine for themselves once or twice a month.
Mining/ratting 23/7 is a different story though.
|
Kalle Demos
Amarr
Hysteria Nexus
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 17:47:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Pookie McPook
The means is already in our hands.
Hulkageddon.
Use it.
Thank you and goodnight.
Yes im sure the macro ratters are heavily affected by this
Originally by: Kool StoryBro
<---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 .. 89 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |