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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.12.06 21:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 06/12/2010 21:21:09
Hi all,
This is just an advance notice to all users of EVE Metrics APIs that I will be closing the site early next year (no later than mid-January).
My other EVE sites, ISKsense and accVIEW, will also be shutting down around this time.
Any subsequent API requests will be fed a static error XML, the website proper will be a static landing page till the domain lapses.
If you have a burning desire to grab a copy of the database and have the 50-odd gigs of space you'd need to be able to load it, I may consider providing a sanitized DB dump on a selective basis, but most of what we have is in the dumps we've been publishing already, so I don't think there's anything much to be gained from the DB dump.
Some interesting numbers:
- 12,000 users
- 90,000 characters (incl. 'seen' characters derived from the market)
- 7,180 API keys - 4,935 of which are full keys
- 90,000 registered calls to the EVE API
- 15,000 API requests to the EVE API per hour on average
- 1.6 million assets tracked
- 15.8 million wallet journals
- 7 million wallet transactions
- 235,000 EVE mails
- 1.7 million active market orders
- 7 million API derived trades
- 60.5 million inferred trades
- 12.3 million uploads
It's been a fun journey, and we made it all the way to 12,000 users, but servers are (really) expensive, we can't monetize the site in any way, and I've not played EVE in almost over a year now. I can't justify the huge operational costs, and without continued development there's no real reason in continuing to run the site since EVE changes regularly, and the site has to change with it to remain useful.
I'd like to thank all the developers who have helped to shape EM into what it became, and hope that we've been useful for the few years it's been around (from 2007 till 2010). I'd love to stay, but EVE isn't what it was when I first started playing. It's moved on, and so have I.
--
Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:28:00 -
[2]
Aww sucks to hear that 
But thanks for the great service all the time Eve Metrics has been running !
_
WTS Capital BPOs |
hcydo
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:39:00 -
[3]
Any chance of knowing how much your infrastructure costs you per month?
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Bolavaz
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:32:00 -
[4]
Such a shame to see a great site being shut down. I for one would be very interested in this sanitized DB dump if you are still willing to produce it.
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:40:00 -
[5]
Sad to see these go, they always looked great and worked great (except when the servers decides not to play nice)
One small question, how did you do the suspicious donations thing in accView?
POS-Tracker 3.0 Hosting |
RC3117
Caldari
theL337 Corp
Roughneck Regulators
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:27:00 -
[6]
man, i loved EVE Metrics,  any way u can like sell it to CCP    that would be SO great i loved the site, so much easier then asking in in-game chat channels. oh well, what must be done must be done.
"To learn war is to learn art. So i study each races art, thus i know there art of war."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn to Admiral Pelleon. |
Greshick
Gallente
Armored Elite
Concordokken.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:29:00 -
[7]
I am interested in possibly taking control over control of the servers.
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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:54:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Greshick
I am interested in possibly taking control over control of the servers.
I am not interested in letting anyone take over the site. That implies supporting them, continuing to support the site's codebase, and handing over a lot of data we've been trusted to keep private. That's not happening. This isn't just a cost thing, as I've said - the cost is a significant aspect (EM requires some fairly serious firepower, which costs a bunch), but the main point here is that I'm not continuing to develop it because I don't play EVE any more. Haven't done for some time now, for various reasons.
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Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Marc Younbrog
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Posted - 2010.12.07 06:01:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Marc Younbrog on 07/12/2010 06:05:15
And I was just about to design some nifty new Planet Industry displays with regular API calls to Eve-metrics.
If it's a matter of server cost, I surmise there are a number of EVE players (or perhaps CCP itself) that would be very interested in supporting the site.
If it's a matter of passing the torch, please do so.
At any rate, the EVE community would love a dump of your source code so that the possibility of ressurection is kept alive.
EDIT:
As far as private data goes, just release the code without the database, and let the players do a complete rebuild of the dataset. It shouldn't take *too* long, and with the activity that will happen over the winter season, it's the best time.
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Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:28:00 -
[10]
Well, Ix, this is sad but not surprising. Thank you for building such great websites for EVE, and thank you for keeping them up for as long as you have.
I would be interested in a copy of the database, particularly the (anonymized) transactions, and I would encourage you to release the source code you've written. I'm also curious as to how much bandwidth you've been using on average for EVE Metrics.
Thanks again for demonstrating how to build amazing websites.
-Epitrope-
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Smoke Adian
Caldari
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:35:00 -
[11]
Thanks for creating a really nice resource. Back to eve-central I guess (ugh).
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Enilonee
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:37:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Enilonee on 07/12/2010 07:41:17
Thank you very much for creating such a useful (and beautiful!) website! That said i need to start begging:
Please at least release the sources under GPL (or any other open source licence).
Many of us would really, really hate seeing this site go away, especially as there is no comparable open source project (is there?) and it's one out of very few. All of the existing sites depend on their creators. Letting the community take over enables us to create a site that will outlast any single player. Naturally the same goes for third party tools written for your API.
It would give any commmunity effort a good foundation to start with.
As for support: Just don't. Without any means of contacting you, nobody could ask you to. Even if they tried you could still ignore them :-S
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:46:00 -
[13]
Sad to see this as I love eve-metrics and use it a lot. I have been noticing fake orders, slow searching and API features not updating for the past few months so I was wondering what was up.
Maybe Santa Chribba Claus will give us a new site like eve-metrics this year? I've been good to my veldspar this year, Chribba!
-
It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Karbowiak
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:47:00 -
[14]
Ix - my offer still stands..
And as for update, all it needs is a database update for the new items then its good to go again
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Serious Masta
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Serious Masta on 07/12/2010 07:53:47
oh man.. thats bad news.
i like eve metrics and it was always a good source for price informations and it was on the way to the top above eve central :)
sad to hear :(...
do you thought on asking the community for donations or select a developer to take over the project?
i wish you all the best for your future, keep your head up :)
btw: please do not offer api keys, this would kill the trust in you and your project :(.
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Karbowiak
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Serious Masta
oh man.. thats bad news.
i like eve metrics and it was always a good source for price informations and it was on the way to the top above eve central :)
sad to hear :(...
do you thought on asking the community for donations or select a developer to take over the project?
i wish you all the best for your future, keep your head up :)
btw: please do not offer api keys, this would kill the trust in you and your project :(.
i doubt he would give out API keys, hell - he even refused free hosting on the EVSCO/EVE-KILL servers, cause of the "private" data..
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Johnny May
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:55:00 -
[17]
ruby based side having high running costs?
now who would have guessed that.
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Serious Masta
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.07 08:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Johnny May
ruby based side having high running costs?
now who would have guessed that.
hmm.. even php :)
1-2 servers (1 backup)
gigant traffic amount through popularity
market upload feeds (huge, even compressed)
a domain
.. and a lot other things to pay...
if you do not play a game, would you love it over years after your brak?
i can understand the consequence^^
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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.12.07 08:21:00 -
[19]
I have no plans to release the source to the website at present, nor do I think I will do in the future. Running EM takes a lot of technical know-how and if people want to make a new EM, they'd be better off starting from scratch. The lessons we learned writing EM are well documented on mine and Makurid's blogs. There'd also be a lot of work involved in sorting the codebase out for an open source release; I'm shutting it down because I don't have time and money to sink into the site, not because I want to spend more time on it cleaning up a fairly large codebase for a generally available release.
Originally by: Serious Masta
btw: please do not offer api keys, this would kill the trust in you and your project :(.
The API keys submitted to EM and other projects are strictly private and would never be released.
Originally by: Johnny May
ruby based side having high running costs? now who would have guessed that.
Choice of language has very little to do with running costs except in the largest scale cases. We have a fairly middle-of-the-line server. The majority of the resources are dedicated to the fairly huge database behind the site itself (60 gigabytes of data in around 250 tables). The site's code isn't exactly heavyweight; in fact it's quite light, and intelligently cached.
--
Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Lorelei Tsu
Caldari
Deutsche Bergbau Gesellschaft mbH und Co. KG
Jaegermeister Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 09:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Lorelei Tsu on 07/12/2010 09:20:15
Hi all, hi Ix,
allow to introduce me - I am a Informatician and specializing in VLDB, very large databases (this is none, btw) and distributed systems. And am surprised about your decision, too. EVE-Metrics has been and is a great site I don't want to miss.
Beginning this month I wondered why your operating costs are so high and have begun to parse the data you're exporting by AMQP to create a second database, meant as backup. And well, so far it fits on a tiny SheevaPlug. I have ideas for a page to view the data, too.
Therefore I'd like to continue your legacy and provide further support and development for the EVE-Metrics uploader and infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the API keys. If you are inclined to have an official successor project, please get in touch with me.
For the servers I will stick to my own technology. And try to offer an adequate replacement for the API you have gifted us so long.
Thank you!
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RaTTuS
BIG
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.07 09:34:00 -
[21]
Speak with Chribba ?
--
Join BIG
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Papa Yoru
Gallente
Somnium Vita
Hitchhikers Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:21:00 -
[22]
Thanks for the great sevice Ix o7
+++ Reality Error 404 - Reboot Cosmos +++ |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:47:00 -
[23]
I'm sad to see you go finally. I expected that after you dropped some hints in another thread. But I still hoped I might be wrong and misreading those words.
Thanks a lot, guys, for all the work you provided to the community.
Whatever you from then on - have fun and success!
--
EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Dontanii
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Posted - 2010.12.07 10:50:00 -
[24]
where is your blog? |
Ryan Easte
Caldari
Rura-Penthe
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Posted - 2010.12.07 11:00:00 -
[25]
I have only been playing eve just over a year and fell in love with your site. It will be sorely missed, at least by me. I understand why it has come to this tho, times change etc etc. Wish you well on future endeavors. It will be interesting to see if the communities in eve will band together to create something new and if so I hope it will be of the same standard and caliber.
Thanks for all you have done for us
Ryan Easte
Mining is the path to enlightenment. |
Tahnil
GNADE Inc.
Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary
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Posted - 2010.12.07 11:05:00 -
[26]
This is really bad news. I'm really sorry to hear that. I loved your site, Ix.
Please consider to hand over the site to some other guy. You could delete all API Keys beforehand. There MUST be some way out of here. 
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Myoko Borealis
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Posted - 2010.12.07 12:40:00 -
[27]
Thanks alot Ix for all the work dedicated to the eve community!
It would be a sad thing if you finally decide to hand over your work to oblivion. Please reconsider the offers of the community to take over EM and the uploader. It's like an atom bomb struck a once thriving and highly evolved race now again starting over with flint and tinder. I can only beg you as a professional software developer, who does understand your decision to shut down, to pass on your legacy.
Whatever you decide, thank you very much!
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Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:39:00 -
[28]
Sad to see the page going. Good luck for your personal future Ix.
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Demonic Moo
Minmatar
Necrogami Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.07 15:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Edited by: Ix Forres on 06/12/2010 21:21:09
If you have a burning desire to grab a copy of the database and have the 50-odd gigs of space you'd need to be able to load it, I may consider providing a sanitized DB dump on a selective basis, but most of what we have is in the dumps we've been publishing already, so I don't think there's anything much to be gained from the DB dump.
IX i'd be interested in getting a sanitized dump of your db.
Hit me up on irc i'm Necrogami
--
Motherboard: Intel DS5400XS
Processor: 2x Intel Core2 Extreme QX9775
Ram: 4x4gb Crucial DDR2 FB-DIMM
Videocards: 3x Evga Nvidia GTX 280 1GB |
Norian Lonark
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 16:22:00 -
[30]
Its sad to see it go its been a great tool for a lot of players but things change and people move on.
Thanks for all the time and effort that went into the project 
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Shivalla
Gallente
Financial Removal
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Posted - 2010.12.07 16:50:00 -
[31]
In the name of everything that is Holy, please support the service that you have created in a way that it does not just dissipate in thin air. Contact Chribba, contact CCP, do whatever it takes to not let this magnificent service die.
You sir have made the second best tool in game after DOTLAN and that is not a small thing!!!
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Thorvik
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.12.07 16:51:00 -
[32]
Thanks for the hard work and an excellent EVE resource. I'll be sad to see it go but your reasons are understandable and, surprisingly, sane. 
Fly free and hope your next venture is as successful as this one.
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Jeddeita
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:13:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jeddeita on 07/12/2010 17:16:10
Hi,
Do you have an email address I could contact you on? I have the infrastructure that can host large sites at my London location - and as a user of EVE Metrics I'd love to see those projects carry on running in some form or another.
Should you prefer to send me a mail you can do it to [email protected].
Cheers,
Jed/Alex
P.S. I know you wouldn't want to hand over the API data from users, that's understandable - but I'd be interested in just running the pure API/Market side of things rather than users API side.
----------
EVEStuff.net - High Quality Corp & Alliance Web Hosting |
Flowerchick
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:32:00 -
[34]
Hi IX
please give us the chance to use your sourcecode to rebuild the site.
Sure The Api¦s are not needed for this, also most of mails,.... dont interest most of the users, but the generated Graphs,... are a very importand issue to most traders.
is there a repo which we can continue working on?
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:47:00 -
[35]
Wanted to thank you for supporting the EVE community and wish you well. The site will be missed. It was well designed, great resource and easy for users to contribute marketing data. If EVE-Gate had a fraction of what your site offered maybe more people wouldn't ignore it.
Good luck and thanks again!
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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:23:00 -
[36]
EM is complex enough (webapp, DB with triggers and partitioning, multiple processors and daemons in the background, AMQP messaging system with a custom firewall in front of it, etc, etc) that for me to set someone else up to host it would take weeks, maybe longer, to get it migrated or set up fresh. Hosting costs are not the main reason for shutting the site down; it's mainly the time. I've moved on and don't have the time to migrate it or set the site up to be openly collaborated on, etc, etc. I wouldn't want to release the site as-is code-wise; it's a mess internally, by and large.
--
Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Jeddeita
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:06:00 -
[37]
Fair enough and understandable :) It'll be a shame to see it go as I found it much better than the other options out there at the moment. I would be interested in a database dump if possible (if it's not a problem of course) - if it'll be problematic no worries.
Good luck with your future projects and thanks for all the time/money/effort you put into running EVE Metrics.
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EVEStuff.net - High Quality Corp & Alliance Web Hosting |
Grimdahl
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Posted - 2010.12.07 20:47:00 -
[38]
It's sad to hear this -- but understandable.
Can we have a talk about Salvis work?
please contact me via: [email protected]
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Ni'Kan
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:15:00 -
[39]
Very sorry to see your site dissapear. Have used it a lot, and really LOVE your uploader..!
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Thibault Etienne
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:29:00 -
[40]
Sad day.
You've helped make me a bunch of ISK. For that I thank you. |
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Lorelei Tsu
Caldari
Deutsche Bergbau Gesellschaft mbH und Co. KG
Jaegermeister Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:36:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lorelei Tsu on 07/12/2010 21:37:18
Btw, I could create a central submit point for the uploader and distribute the market views via AMQP or ZeroMQ and open-source that along with the EVE Metrics successor in a way every corp could run their own site - maybe with a reduced or federated dataset if space is a problem - in addition to 'the' fully-fledged version.
Still no statement to my offer.
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Marc Younbrog
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:41:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Marc Younbrog on 07/12/2010 21:42:46
Ix, would you be interested in passing on the domain registration for a group to code a new EVE Metrics?
Also implying if you're ok with the community re-using the EVE Metrics name.
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Zakarumit CZ
Amarr
Kiroshi Group
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.12.07 22:09:00 -
[43]
Damned, thats a pity I was really enjoying it...
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IceBlade Rage
Immortalis Silens
Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.12.07 23:04:00 -
[44]
We will miss you Ix. I know its almost like beating a dead horse, but if not EM, could I possibly prevail upon you for a release of accview?
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.12.07 23:34:00 -
[45]
I was afraid this was going to happen. I know you already said no, but we would also be willing to host the site on the EOH server, sans all of the current API keys. We don't have great ruby support though, but eh, offer is still on the table in case you suddenly change your mind.
We'll miss you around here =/
______________________________
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Miluuu
Ten Below Zero
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Posted - 2010.12.08 00:25:00 -
[46]
Thank you for the contribution Ix!
It was a big fun in the early days to upload the items :)
Fly safe,
o7 |
Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.08 00:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jeddeita
Edited by: Jeddeita on 07/12/2010 17:16:10
Hi,
Do you have an email address I could contact you on? I have the infrastructure that can host large sites at my London location - and as a user of EVE Metrics I'd love to see those projects carry on running in some form or another.
Should you prefer to send me a mail you can do it to [email protected].
Cheers,
Jed/Alex
P.S. I know you wouldn't want to hand over the API data from users, that's understandable - but I'd be interested in just running the pure API/Market side of things rather than users API side.
Keep us posted!
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Baeryn
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.08 01:08:00 -
[48]
What are operational costs? Technology requirements? EVEmail me if you aren't willing to disclose publicly.
I'm in charge of "a few" servers in a cluster that I'd be willing to allocate towards this, and/or just buy the service outright, assuming the price is right. I've used EVE Metrics for a long time and would love to do whatever I can to keep it running.
________
RolePlayGateway || EVE UserVoice: A Supplement to the CSM |
Elojs
Gallente
Corp 42
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.08 01:24:00 -
[49]
Well done, Ix. That's the first thing that needs to be said. EM is a tool I had just begun to use, and was very impressed with both the presentation and the content. At the very least, it's a great resume builder under 'Other activities'.
I would be interested in the sanitized datadump, as I've only been playing EVE for about a year, and would be interested in possibly taking a stab at developing a successor tool (sans API keys)
I wish you the best of good fortune, and success in all your future endeavors. Your skills and expertise as shown with EM will be sorely missed by all of us who have used the tool consistently.
I understand the needs of change and wish you well, as I also wish for a future tool that builds on the fine work that has come before.
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Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2010.12.08 04:30:00 -
[50]
Sorry to see you and the site go Ix. I didn't really use the site but know it was very popular and will really be missed. I'll also been missing you not being around the forums here.
BTW I wouldn't worry about what the code looks like I would still like to see you release it as open source so if someone decides to they can try picking it up. Just zip up the code or something and put it up on GoogleCode or at Source Forge with it clearly stated you won't answer support questions and its all on them to figure it out. If you want you can also contact me and I'll put it up somewhere for you and handle the project admin stuff so you don't have to deal with it. I just hate to see all the work you did on it be totally lost.
Anyway thanks for all you done for the Eve community and good luck with whatever you've moved on to.
--
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for Eve API.
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Raijen Ar'Desh
Gallente
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
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Posted - 2010.12.08 06:21:00 -
[51]
I just wanted to post to thank you for providing your service, thanks for your time and effort, and good luck in your future endeavors.
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Victor Valka
Caldari
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.12.08 06:41:00 -
[52]
I've used EVE Metrics on several occasions, and it proved itself to be a great resource. Thank you, Ix, for all the time and money you've put into it. It is much appreciated!
Good luck in the future! o7
Originally by: Spaztick
You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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megan lebroux
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Posted - 2010.12.08 08:16:00 -
[53]
there is a lot of people ready to take this out of your hands..... you just going to bury it in the sand?
this looks more like an ego thing that anything else, you havent explored any options to keep this alive, and you are asumming nobody else has the knowledge to clear up the code , etc.
give it to ccp maybe they will be interested, if you dont trust anyone else, but dont let it die like this....
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Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.08 09:43:00 -
[54]
Originally by: megan lebroux
give it to ccp maybe they will be interested
I don't think that's what you really want. Since CCP is always picky if it affects their market data. Every approach to get a global market rather then a region/local one or more market data out of CCP (apart from what's available through ClientCache and API) is nearly impossible.
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Seraphina Amaranth
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Posted - 2010.12.08 11:23:00 -
[55]
Thanks for everything, Ix. The fact that you've built and operated such a site is something to be proud of and worth more than a single line on your CV. Regrettably, the success of eve-metrics would be lessened by its demise and I urge you to consider a transition plan.
For those who asked about operating costs: Ix has previously stated that it costs about 100GBP/month.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2010.12.08 12:10:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 08/12/2010 12:12:38
Hmmmm
@ Ix
1. I want to thank you for the work you've done, the service you've provided and the enjoyment of this game that was enhanced by your efforts.
2. I'm sorry to see that your work is going to quietly pass away. Frankly as a professional programmer much of my work lies hidden behind corporate firewalls and is hardly visible to anybody but a select few at any given time.
3. I wish you'd reconsider this decision to let the project lapse completely. If nothing else would you be willing to release the cache-sc****r so other people can code an uploader for a new site? I'd be more than willing to take that over and provide a GPL project to host it. A new cache-sc****r could even be setup to update multiple market sites simultaneously if desired.
Frankly I was thinking of creating my own cache-sc****r but if the source is available for an existing one to modify/update then that would of course be much easier.
4. What are your monthly operating costs? IMO the service is valuable enough that people will try to replicate it and a rough guide to monthly operating costs would probably help immensely.
5. I currently have an "unlimited" web account with my host that I used to support a couple personal blogs, some web projects of mine and a couple businesses run by friends. Terribly underutilized really. I know people have asked this before but I, along with those others, would be willing to take over the project lock, stock and both barrels with the preemptive deletion of the API keys and registered market orders of course.
...
In any event I wish you the best in whatever you turn to next and hope to see you one day back here in EVE or in another game someday.
edit: you must be joking here!? s-c-r-a-p-e-r? clbuttic!
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Serene Python
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Posted - 2010.12.08 13:13:00 -
[57]
Really sorry to see this go but I can see your reasons.
I think the people who claim to be competent to maintain and clean up your code should stop asking and start making another version while EM is still around. I'd give it a go myself but I can already tell what needs to be done and lack the ability, time and money to do this. I appreciate what service this has given me API wise. Hopefully some one really does step up to the plate and starts coding something like this.
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Dismantler
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Posted - 2010.12.08 15:28:00 -
[58]
Can we have the source code for the cache reader opened?
Thanks,
Dis
Best regards,
Dismantler |
Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 15:31:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dismantler
Can we have the source code for the cache reader opened?
Thanks,
Dis
The 1.5 cache reader can't be open sourced for various reasons, but we have released the 2.0 uploader's source, and people are more than welcome to fork the project and continue with it.
https://github.com/JamesHarrison/evemetrics_uploader
--
Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.08 15:54:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Wollari on 08/12/2010 15:55:05
Originally by: Dismantler
Can we have the source code for the cache reader opened?
Thanks,
Dis
You also likely wanna take a look on Entitiy's Libary that's actuacally reading the cache files (which Ix's cache uploader is using aswell before pushing the data to the server).
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1190021
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Infinimo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.08 18:57:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Infinimo on 08/12/2010 18:57:38
'I cant be bothered to do this, but even though you are willing and qualified to, **** you, obviously I am the only one talented and knowledgeable enough to be able to do this.'
If you are that stubborn just put some google ads on it, christ...
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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.12.08 20:14:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Infinimo
Edited by: Infinimo on 08/12/2010 18:57:38
'I cant be bothered to do this, but even though you are willing and qualified to, **** you, obviously I am the only one talented and knowledgeable enough to be able to do this.'
If you are that stubborn just put some google ads on it, christ...
Anyone qualified to take the EM source and turn it into a new usable site is more than qualified to do the same thing from scratch, and in the process do their own take on the concept, and avoid some of the flaws we ran into with EM.
Google Ads can't be placed on the site because of CCP's rules on monetizing the EVE Online IP. There's no way to generate any income from this or any other EVE application without CCP's consent. However, as I've said before, cost was not the main issue. Time was, and I don't have the time that would be needed to sort out any form of transition, open sourcing, or anything along those lines.
--
Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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TheBear421
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Posted - 2010.12.08 22:34:00 -
[63]
I've only been using EVE Metrics for a few months now, but it's helped me immensely with figuring out market prices while in w-space, among other things. I'm sorry to see it go, but thank you for bringing this tool to us in the first place!
I hope that someone (maybe CCP? :D) will find a way to fill the gap and make their own version of this database.
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Femaref
Armageddon Day
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.12.09 00:22:00 -
[64]
Gotta be effin kidding me.
I'm as well interested in the database dump.
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Karbowiak
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 00:36:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Google Ads can't be placed on the site because of CCP's rules on monetizing the EVE Online IP. There's no way to generate any income from this or any other EVE application without CCP's consent.
Wat?.. well, i guess EVE-Kill will be closing down aswell then, ****.. :\
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Black Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 01:27:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Google Ads can't be placed on the site because of CCP's rules on monetizing the EVE Online IP. There's no way to generate any income from this or any other EVE application without CCP's consent.
I think you're wrong with this. Othwise I would ask myself why they've a Guideline on Evelopedia for Fansite how to setup Google Ads.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_Online_Fansite_AdSense_Guide
But in general i've something personal against ads ... I don't like em, block them with AdBlock, so any other source of income would be better of course .... but that's something different. Ever coin dropped into supporting Eve 3rd Party Developer is more worth then any random banner campaign.
... Well ...
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Jeannaqua
Spank A Gank
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Posted - 2010.12.09 09:21:00 -
[67]
It's a shame to see EM go. It will be missed.
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HyperBeanie
Phantom Squad
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 09:31:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Wollari
Originally by: Ix Forres
Google Ads can't be placed on the site because of CCP's rules on monetizing the EVE Online IP. There's no way to generate any income from this or any other EVE application without CCP's consent.
I think you're wrong with this. Othwise I would ask myself why they've a Guideline on Evelopedia for Fansite how to setup Google Ads.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_Online_Fansite_AdSense_Guide
But in general i've something personal against ads ... I don't like em, block them with AdBlock, so any other source of income would be better of course .... but that's something different. Ever coin dropped into supporting Eve 3rd Party Developer is more worth then any random banner campaign.
... Well ...
Interesting Wollari ;)
Anyway, good luck with your new projects IX, sad to see you leave!
/Beanie
EVSCO - Free and Paid killboards - Get yours today! |
Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 10:22:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 09/12/2010 10:24:13
Originally by: Wollari
Originally by: Ix Forres
Google Ads can't be placed on the site because of CCP's rules on monetizing the EVE Online IP. There's no way to generate any income from this or any other EVE application without CCP's consent.
I think you're wrong with this. Othwise I would ask myself why they've a Guideline on Evelopedia for Fansite how to setup Google Ads.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_Online_Fansite_AdSense_Guide
But in general i've something personal against ads ... I don't like em, block them with AdBlock, so any other source of income would be better of course .... but that's something different. Ever coin dropped into supporting Eve 3rd Party Developer is more worth then any random banner campaign.
... Well ...
Interesting - I am indeed wrong on saying that ads are not allowed and I stand corrected - my bad! There is however no way for us to offer a premium service or otherwise directly monetize it, which is what it would take to make the site financially self-sustaining. Advertising revenue would not be sufficient to justify the presence of adverts without them being very obtrusive high-CTR ads like intersitials (speaking from experience with other non-EVE sites I've run). And I've never wanted to put ads on EM, like you say, they detract from a website.
We did always try to offset costs through donation but the total donations raised over the years have been fairly trivial and mostly got sunk into upgrading the box hosting the site so it would keep running fast enough as opposed to going towards hosting costs. But this is all academic, since cost isn't really the issue here.
Thanks for all the messages of support and thanks. It's been a pleasure to run these sites for the past few years, and the community's been great to work with. I wish all the EVE online third party devs out there luck with their projects.
--
Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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padraig animal
Minmatar
Matrix Solutions
StarFleet Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.09 10:46:00 -
[70]
Aww thnx Ix for all the good work ,to bad you are gone from EVE.
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HighlanderUK
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
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Posted - 2010.12.09 17:56:00 -
[71]
well sorry to see such a well used, great service/app go, perhaps EVE Central can pick-up the baton if there alpha client every gets finalised.
i wish you well in your endeavours, and hope that you may return to EVE sometime (we all do in the end, you can never truly leave!!!). Personal thanks to Jason for all the email replies and download link regarding the latest EM client.
**************************************************
Maker of the finest Scottish drones and ammo...all combined
with Active Peat Camouflage (tm) -- so dark, you won't see them coming!! |
Psihius
Caldari
Anarchist Dawn
U N K N O W N
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Posted - 2010.12.10 11:09:00 -
[72]
Any chance we can figure out to securely move the project from one owner to other like implementing a user based migration? For example, we make a copy of a project on subdomain or other domain and implement on eve-metrics a button witch user can click and transfer his data to the new project and he should supply new password, new API keys. That means than you, as the owner, do not handle over any data your users don't want to move.
I know there are ways to do the transition and that transition to be the user's choice to trust the data to new owner. Just killing the site is crude to the users :(
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Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.10 14:42:00 -
[73]
When will people ever stop begging to get the source code of a dying project ?
Also Ix already released the most important part of it (the uploader). If you can't recreate the rest yourself don't even bother to try to become the new Eve-Metrics.
_
WTS Capital BPOs |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:28:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
When will people ever stop begging to get the source code of a dying project ?
Also Ix already released the most important part of it (the uploader). If you can't recreate the rest yourself don't even bother to try to become the new Eve-Metrics.
lol, as if the uploader is something special. The special thing about it is reverence, and that is written by entity.
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Artem Myagkoff
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Posted - 2010.12.10 23:41:00 -
[75]
Damn this is a sad day. I realy loved EM and its versatility.
Only thing I wish Ix could do is to spare a bit more time to remove api keys and release code it for a smooth and swift transition to people interested in it.
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Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 04:01:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Nikolai Kondratiev on 11/12/2010 04:04:25
Originally by: Femaref
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
When will people ever stop begging to get the source code of a dying project ?
Also Ix already released the most important part of it (the uploader). If you can't recreate the rest yourself don't even bother to try to become the new Eve-Metrics.
lol, as if the uploader is something special. The special thing about it is reverence, and that is written by entity.
Yeah, because obviously the website's code is so special and totally impossible to recreate because Ix also created the programming language used for it (and is totally not written in Ruby/PHP/ASP/whatever....) and also invented Linux servers + postgreSQL databases
_
WTS Capital BPOs |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 11:04:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
Edited by: Nikolai Kondratiev on 11/12/2010 04:04:25
Originally by: Femaref
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
When will people ever stop begging to get the source code of a dying project ?
Also Ix already released the most important part of it (the uploader). If you can't recreate the rest yourself don't even bother to try to become the new Eve-Metrics.
lol, as if the uploader is something special. The special thing about it is reverence, and that is written by entity.
Yeah, because obviously the website's code is so special and totally impossible to recreate because Ix also created the programming language used for it (and is totally not written in Ruby/PHP/ASP/whatever....) and also invented Linux servers + postgreSQL databases
The code itself isn't special, what the code does (ie. optimizations, caching etc) is special. If one would start a new version of it, you'd have to go through all iterations like Ix did, and that will cost time.
If it's so easy to make, I'm awaiting a new eve-metrics from you in the future.
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Seraphina Amaranth
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 14:02:00 -
[78]
http://yannramin.com/2010/12/09/eve-central-after-eve-metrics/
Since it's all open-sourced (and is actually running), it's better to help out than to start from scratch.
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Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:43:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Femaref
If it's so easy to make, I'm awaiting a new eve-metrics from you in the future.
You can stop waiting, I already have my own version up and running. Difference is that I don't care enough about helping people making nice spreadsheets to dedicate a server to such a project and make it public.
Oh and since the application is nothing, I hope you can spend 30 min of your time to debug Eve-central's uploader and help them implement missing features kthxbai.
_
WTS Capital BPOs |
Tehg Rhind
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 17:15:00 -
[80]
Huge blow to me as a trader, I am really sorry to hear this man, but I completely understand. If you are losing money then it isn't worth it.
CCP should seriously consider buying your site from you and maintaining it.
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Raquel Smith
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2010.12.11 19:58:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Infinimo
Edited by: Infinimo on 08/12/2010 18:57:38
'I cant be bothered to do this, but even though you are willing and qualified to, **** you, obviously I am the only one talented and knowledgeable enough to be able to do this.'
If you are that stubborn just put some google ads on it, christ...
Anyone qualified to take the EM source and turn it into a new usable site is more than qualified to do the same thing from scratch, and in the process do their own take on the concept, and avoid some of the flaws we ran into with EM.
This.
I am certainly qualified but ran into the same problem Ix has: Time. I'm busy enough with other projects that I don't have time to spend 40 hours a week for several months to create a website with polish. To say nothing of the fact that I'm horrible with front-end web design, which is the real challenge anyways.
So to folks who want another Eve-Metrics Send Ix a cheque for ú35,000 every year so he can quit his job and provide it to you.
--
Creator of The Ruby API Library |
Mournful Conciousness
Gallente
Special Situations
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Posted - 2010.12.12 13:07:00 -
[82]
First, I join in the chorus of thanks and praise in honour of Ix.
Second, I am a 20-year time-served application architect having designed and build real-time trading systems for banks. I also have interests in online retail and understand site monetisation.
I have the will and vision to take the eve metrics base and build a really special eve-companion site that will really add to the game, plus perhaps even pay for itself (but probably not make anyone rich)
If any of you out there feel the same way as me, I'd be glad to hear from you so we can look at a collaboration.
Please feel free to email me on [email protected] or eve-mail "mournful conciousness" in game (yes, it is spelled incorrectly).
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Nathalia Itiero
Gallente
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.12.12 13:08:00 -
[83]
Not to mention Ix wasn't alone. It takes time, money and dedication. Sad to see EM go, it was fun to help out with what little code i commited over the years :-)
__________________________________________________
A part of the MMMetrics team.
EVE-Metrics |
Bloody Bolt
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 01:13:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Bloody Bolt on 14/12/2010 01:16:14
Originally by: Raquel Smith
I am certainly qualified but ran into the same problem Ix has: Time. I'm busy enough with other projects that I don't have time to spend 40 hours a week for several months to create a website with polish.
Time wasting repeatedly is the main reason to ask for code of closing project no matter how chaotic it is. And authors quite often give it to make their time spent more reasonable and avoid trashing own efforts so easy (by themselves). If new maintainers are qualified enough such step could mean bright long future for project who was successfully started by the author. All authors are different and thats up to them to decide how quickly they want to be forgotten. So if you are really going to trash it, you can do it after giving it out. :)
Sad reality is that projects not started as Open Source are too vulnerable to stay alive. So adi=s for project I liked and used, nothing unexpected, but still sad that it happens once again. Looks like we need to face back to eve-central and contribute to get features we liked in EM. And the first most desirable update could be building proper uploader. Uh, maybe they already got it?
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Professor Elm
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:20:00 -
[85]
Is there any way that I could persuade you to help me make a page that functions like your "suggested uploads" page did? Specifically, something to let me look up items at random until I close browser and something to let me scan the whole market. It would help me continue to get important market data quickly even without the eve-metrics site.
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Serene Python
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 12:21:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Professor Elm
Is there any way that I could persuade you to help me make a page that functions like your "suggested uploads" page did? Specifically, something to let me look up items at random until I close browser and something to let me scan the whole market. It would help me continue to get important market data quickly even without the eve-metrics site.
One way would be add a last updated column in the database and make the suggested uploads be the oldest entries so they'd get updated.
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Henry Foss
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:48:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Marc Younbrog
Edited by: Marc Younbrog on 07/12/2010 21:42:46
Ix, would you be interested in passing on the domain registration for a group to code a new EVE Metrics?
Also implying if you're ok with the community re-using the EVE Metrics name.
+1 to this. Letting the domain lapse will just see it get scooped up by a link farm or some other nefarious setup. I can understand not wanting to release the source, but it would be great to be able to keep some of the community momentum going on an EVE Metrics 2.0. Transferring the domain (not hosting) should only take a few minutes. Then a date could be set for when DNS will update to a new host.
At the same time I can see the desire for a clean break. None the less any community effort would greatly benefit from not starting completely from scratch
And thanks a ton for providing the service in the first place :-) |
Vigilanta
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 17:47:00 -
[88]
So if we wanted to get a copy of the database as i is now, how would we go about that?
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mugen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:31:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Henry Foss
Originally by: Marc Younbrog
Edited by: Marc Younbrog on 07/12/2010 21:42:46
Ix, would you be interested in passing on the domain registration for a group to code a new EVE Metrics?
Also implying if you're ok with the community re-using the EVE Metrics name.
+1 to this. Letting the domain lapse will just see it get scooped up by a link farm or some other nefarious setup. I can understand not wanting to release the source, but it would be great to be able to keep some of the community momentum going on an EVE Metrics 2.0. Transferring the domain (not hosting) should only take a few minutes. Then a date could be set for when DNS will update to a new host.
At the same time I can see the desire for a clean break. None the less any community effort would greatly benefit from not starting completely from scratch
And thanks a ton for providing the service in the first place :-)
Really sorry to see the service go... But I completely understand the lack of desire to keep something afloat without capital or general interest in the game anymore.
I'm with the guys above.
If we put together a commitee to take over the project, including source, db, domain name, etc... would you consider passing it along to someone to continue to nurture it?
I absolutely love what's been put together, and would rather see if there's something we could arrange. I have available servers and a datacenter setup more than capable of handling the traffic.
If you're interested, or anyone else is interested in putting together a group to "save the service" let me know, and hit me up on Skype@JSpecMugen.
If not, thanks for all the hard work you put into the project. It was brilliant while it lasted! :D
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Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:23:00 -
[90]
I would also like to request the code for the market scrolling as well, that would be very helpful for pushing info to eve-central as well... and i can't find the code to do it easily... if you can supply that that alone would be very nice...
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Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
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Posted - 2010.12.16 21:04:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
I would also like to request the code for the market scrolling as well, that would be very helpful for pushing info to eve-central as well... and i can't find the code to do it easily... if you can supply that that alone would be very nice...
View source on page & the function shows liScroll being used
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Count Atreides
Helljumpers
En Garde
|
Posted - 2010.12.17 04:47:00 -
[92]
Ix,
You have seen that are a number of people who are prepared to take up the challenge of running Em. I also see that you have spent time and money to get EM up and running.
Why not allow the people who are prepared to run this service and maintain it (I can provide the hosting) and take a piece of the pie if we are able to monetise it.
I am not going to put my CV up here, but suffice to say that I have enough business experience to to be confident enough to at least give it a go.
Ix, you won't have to do anything, (other than hand over the code & the entire site and answer some questions while the new owners get up to speed) your work is done... so for the next year or maybe two, just enjoy the fruits of your labour (IF we are able to successfully monetise it).
What do you reckon?
I am too poor to have a sig! :( |
Joseph SaintJohn
|
Posted - 2010.12.17 06:24:00 -
[93]
"All good things must come to an end". I hope that at the last hour CCP, or some private venture capitalist, buys you out and you make a lot of money from all your effort. I don't have any programming expertise, but your tool was easy to use. and a great help.
All the best in the future.
Joe
"A path once chosen creates its own path"
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Nathalia Itiero
Gallente
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:35:00 -
[94]
It's worth mentioning how ironic it is that for years we have asked for donations to keep the server running happily and to cover cost of new hardware, yet very little has come in (Pledgie total is like 360 gbp). But now that the service is closing you are all offering server hosting and favours. In my opinion that shows exactly how the community is and why people quit coding things like these and even quit the game entirely.
__________________________________________________
A part of the MMMetrics team.
EVE-Metrics |
a newbie
Trust Doesn't Rust
|
Posted - 2010.12.17 23:35:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Nathalia Itiero
It's worth mentioning how ironic it is that for years we have asked for donations to keep the server running happily and to cover cost of new hardware, yet very little has come in (Pledgie total is like 360 gbp). But now that the service is closing you are all offering server hosting and favours. In my opinion that shows exactly how the community is and why people quit coding things like these and even quit the game entirely.
While I agree on the donations aspect, I heartily disagree on the offerings of servers. Not everyone has expendable income, in fact, some only have a server to offer as they have their own servers like myself for instance. If I am trying to raise money for my own expenses of running a host, I will be hard pressed to find the extra income with which to donate to a service, although wonderful it is, as yours. All some people can offer, people like me and a few others, is just that.
So please instead of taking the offers some of us put forward and throwing it in our face like we don't care, take some of them to consideration as a sign of respect.
I have send Ix an email requesting information, and if he had any questions to contact me further. I have roughly 12 coders who are wanting to jump on this project as we had already begun one similar. We do not seek to get everything for nothing, instead only request that which is offered but I have not yet received a reply.
While I intend our group to take on the project and as stated by Ix, develop it with our own approach, some of the information that would be provided would assist the community in establishing a working replacement for the many many tools that use EVE-Metrics as a base.
I for one will sorely miss the fact that Aura, one of the only few good EVE apps for android or any phone OS, runs off of EVE-Metrics data and will in most likely case cease to function.
Also please note I do not seek to be the one and only source for this project but would rather openly welcome other coders to the group effort as EVE-Metrics form and function have grown beyond a single groups project but a valuable community resource too important to just disappear.
Please contact me asap. If required we can arrange for a direct means of contact to discuss this further.
Thank you EVE-Metrics team for your past efforts and I hope whatever future endevours you pursue are fruitful.
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Kallahar
|
Posted - 2010.12.18 00:46:00 -
[96]
I think he makes a good point, anyone with the skills to run a replacement site also has the skills to implement it themselves.
Which is what I did:
http://eve-marketdata.com
It's by no means perfect, and I *really* need people to install the uploader (ocreate your own) to start putting data in. The rest of the site isn't worth anything if people don't provide data :)
More info on this thread:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1433498
Kallahar
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Etheoma
|
Posted - 2010.12.18 03:04:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Etheoma on 18/12/2010 03:05:39
if people agreed to pay would you contune and even maybe improve the service? because i would be willing to pay a certain amount for this the use of eve metrics
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Karbowiak
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.12.18 03:59:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Nathalia Itiero
It's worth mentioning how ironic it is that for years we have asked for donations to keep the server running happily and to cover cost of new hardware, yet very little has come in (Pledgie total is like 360 gbp). But now that the service is closing you are all offering server hosting and favours. In my opinion that shows exactly how the community is and why people quit coding things like these and even quit the game entirely.
lolwat?..
i offered hosting way before that, lol.. actually more than once.
Each time, it was turned down for various reasons.
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Nicky's Tomb
|
Posted - 2010.12.19 11:38:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Nicky''s Tomb on 19/12/2010 11:38:40
Shame to see this go. Respect for what you have achieved and understanding of what you must do, but.
May I just rant about the general "Freeware" community as being selfish and ego bound. For someone to create an application that is of use to them, then release it to a community for free so it may be of use to others, but to retain 100% full distribution, copyrights, modification and development documentation like they have any real worth as proprietary assets (IP) is just annoying and ... selfish. R3tarding to the development of good software.
I hope that Open Source eventually kills freeware off, because it's only when you release the code distribution, modification and development to the larger community that those very things have any chance of becoming viable assets.
And as those things have no value in freeware, freeware projects die with their high and glorious one man islands of developer's interest.
You don't want it. We do. Do the right thing, GPL the code, documentation and DB Schemas. :)
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.12.19 17:00:00 -
[100]
Why not offer it to CCP and see if you can't work out a deal? It really is a good site. Maybe you could work out some kind of license or even sell it to CCP for them to integrate into eveonline.com somewhere?
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Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2010.12.19 18:54:00 -
[101]
CCP would have no interest in anything that makes it easier for traders do stuff without being actually in game. They have been very clear on that multiple times which means there are probably multiple people within CCP that are happy to see this site die so everyone that keeps suggesting they take over are going to be very disappointed. For those of you that haven't been in Eve long enough to know, they have been know to totally reconfigure the gates throughout Eve to try to kill past market hubs before they had even got as big as Jita is now. I believe they have finally decided not to do that anymore but to expect them to do anything that would allow players to in anyway automate or make it easier to decided on where, when, or how to do their market transactions outside of Eve itself just isn't going to happen.
--
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for Eve API.
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Papa Yoru
Gallente
Electric Monk inc
United Rock Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:40:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Dragonaire
CCP would have no interest in anything that makes it easier for traders do stuff without being actually in game. They have been very clear on that multiple times which means there are probably multiple people within CCP that are happy to see this site die so everyone that keeps suggesting they take over are going to be very disappointed. For those of you that haven't been in Eve long enough to know, they have been know to totally reconfigure the gates throughout Eve to try to kill past market hubs before they had even got as big as Jita is now. I believe they have finally decided not to do that anymore but to expect them to do anything that would allow players to in anyway automate or make it easier to decided on where, when, or how to do their market transactions outside of Eve itself just isn't going to happen.
Uh you know they want to add trading to EVEgate right? :P
+++ Reality Error 404 - Reboot Cosmos +++ |
Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.20 18:55:00 -
[103]
They want to add "trading" as in "check your orders/transaction like on any 3rd party tool" or add "trading" as in "get real time info on any region's market" ? 
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WTS Capital BPOs |
Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.12.20 19:41:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Why not offer it to CCP and see if you can't work out a deal? It really is a good site. Maybe you could work out some kind of license or even sell it to CCP for them to integrate into eveonline.com somewhere?
If CCP wanted to save EM, they've had the opportunity to do so on many occasions and haven't done. CCP are big on their regional separation of markets as alluded to in a post above; EM goes against that, and damages their model a bit, or at least that's what we got out of them years back when talking about EM. No matter if that's true or not, the fact is that they know we're closing and that we're in the position to go on running it with sufficient support, but they've chosen not to give us that support and as a result of that, plus my not actually playing EVE any more, plus the amount of time I have spare dwindling as I take on more work outside of my studies, means that we have to close.
If we just left EM as-is, before long we'd have had data piling up and affecting site performance, the server it's hosted on needs serious improvements to go on functioning as it stands, we'd have to be investing massively in capacity to ensure the site stayed up, not to mention a massive amount of time associated with continually supporting it and handling any hardware changes.
For those who want the code: Go write it. I'm not doing this because I want to hamper people; as a student in full-time education collaborating with another couple of students in full-time education, it took us a couple of months to get EM version 3 done (and we wrote that pretty much from scratch, ignoring a lot of EM2's existing code). All through this we were learning as we went; sure, if we GPL'd the code you could spend roughly the same amount of time picking our code apart, fixing the bugs, packaging it all up again and deploying it, working out how to recreate a quite esoteric environment on the server for things like messaging... and you'd end up with a worse product than writing a new website would get you in the same amount of time. It won't be the same but that's a good thing. If people need a market site, well, necessity is the mother of invention. I wrote EM because I found the topic of EVE's market interesting and the technical challenges were fun, and I wanted to give back to the community. If you've got similar motivation, you'll do better without the code anyway. If people want to hit me up for questions about how we did things or anything like that, or want specific chunks of code as a reference, I'm happy to do as much as possible in that regard.
It's worth noting that many components of the EVE Metrics codebase are already open source, and already published on Github- notably our uploader and rabbitcage, the firewall Makurid wrote for RabbitMQ, our message broker used by the upload process and API processing stuff. I may selectively publish some other snippets that might be handy to other developers if I have a chance to but I don't really have the time to do much these days.
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Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Thibault Etienne
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Posted - 2010.12.20 21:42:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Kallahar
I think he makes a good point, anyone with the skills to run a replacement site also has the skills to implement it themselves.
Which is what I did:
http://eve-marketdata.com
It's by no means perfect, and I *really* need people to install the uploader (ocreate your own) to start putting data in. The rest of the site isn't worth anything if people don't provide data :)
More info on this thread:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1433498
Kallahar
Seems for Various reasons Eve Metrics will be going bye bye. Perhaps we should move on as suggested and give Kallahar's a try. |
Zifrian
Solar Nexus.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2010.12.21 02:11:00 -
[106]
Always liked the website. I was just going to add the API to a program I'm working on too.
I respect you for not giving up your code. I would do the same probably.
If there are so many people that want to run the site, you really need to invest time and effort into doing so or you will just end up doing it half-assed.
I don't have the time or the resources...or probably the coding knowledge to do something like this but I know there some people out there that do. I hope one of you gets interested in making your own version of a price database like EM. It would be a great thing to have.
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DSM20T
Obsidian Ridge INC
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:12:00 -
[107]
Edited by: DSM20T on 21/12/2010 20:12:59
Originally by: Thibault Etienne
Originally by: Kallahar
I think he makes a good point, anyone with the skills to run a replacement site also has the skills to implement it themselves.
Which is what I did:
http://eve-marketdata.com
It's by no means perfect, and I *really* need people to install the uploader (ocreate your own) to start putting data in. The rest of the site isn't worth anything if people don't provide data :)
More info on this thread:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1433498
Kallahar
Seems for Various reasons Eve Metrics will be going bye bye. Perhaps we should move on as suggested and give Kallahar's a try.
Agreed. Downloading uploader now. I recommend others do the same and let's help Kallahar get his site going.
Eve-metrics is ending, it sucks but that's the way it goes. Ix doesn't wish to hand off the torch, so let's accept that, thank him for his service, and move on.
Eve-marketdata
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CODE RED
Caldari
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
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Posted - 2010.12.22 04:18:00 -
[108]
******************************************************************
PLEASE EVEMAIL ME, I own a data center and would gladly host it :)
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_________________________________________
Kryo "CODE RED" Dracon
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Commander Minner
Gallente
Cyanide Manufacturing Inc
Celestial Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.23 02:30:00 -
[109]
Real sorry to see you go. This site made me millions in my PI. Also, guys, he's not giving up the code. I know you're sorry to see it go, but he released alot of the important stuff publicly already, and the rest shouldn't be all that bad for a really skilled programmer. And, I would like to thank Kallahar, for making what looks like will carry on the torch of Metrics (I thought I was on the Metrics site at first, it looks that good). Hope his project carries on, currently uploading (that's why I'm hanging on the forums, he said AFK is the best way to upload). Cheers mate, hope to see you back in EvE sometime in the future.
__________________________________________________
"Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" -- Cmdr. Riker
"Jean-Luc! It's so good to see you again. How about a big |
Lynn Deniera
Caldari
The Foreign Legion
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.23 02:34:00 -
[110]
Thanks for all the hard work. We have used this service for a long time.
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Fargo Longhaul
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Posted - 2010.12.23 03:54:00 -
[111]
Ix,
Many thanks for the dedication, resources, and the huge investment you made to the community. Much respect!
Kallahar,
Any chance Eve-marketdata can replicate the Eve Metrics API calls? That way we could just change the URL?
Everyone else,
Eve Metrics is far better is seems, but why doesn't anyone acknowledge Eve Central? (Maybe not appropriate for this thread, but I'm curious)
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Femaref
Armageddon Day
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.12.24 01:55:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Fargo Longhaul
Ix,
Many thanks for the dedication, resources, and the huge investment you made to the community. Much respect!
Kallahar,
Any chance Eve-marketdata can replicate the Eve Metrics API calls? That way we could just change the URL?
Everyone else,
Eve Metrics is far better is seems, but why doesn't anyone acknowledge Eve Central? (Maybe not appropriate for this thread, but I'm curious)
Because central is inferior to metrics. and concerning the api calls - I sent Kallahar a mail about it.
Ix: would it be possible to see the algorithm for the simulated field? I think I might be able to understand it better in code than in words.
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Jeannaqua
Spank A Gank
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:49:00 -
[113]
I've tried going back to Eve Central. It's not even close. It just doesn't compare to Eve Metrics
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Slow Deterioration
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:40:00 -
[114]
Thank you for your job Ix. Sad to see this site go.
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Cornwalace
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Posted - 2010.12.24 21:24:00 -
[115]
Thank you for taking time, well after you played Eve, to keep it running.
As for everyone else - who's starting to re-create a similar code, with the information he's provided? I'm curious as to the status of whomever is going to re-create what Ix had done?
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Rakivic
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.12.27 04:26:00 -
[116]
Thanks for the service. I used it often
Does anyone know if this will effect eve-central some one told me once that it used the same API ad eve metrics.
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Troll Bear
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:44:00 -
[117]
Regarding accview, this is an application I am going to miss. Is there something similar out there that can help me analyze full API data from new corp. applicants? Thanks.
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NextDarkKnight
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:59:00 -
[118]
Edited by: NextDarkKnight on 28/12/2010 19:02:38
Just found your site a few weeks ago and got to use it. It was perfect for making a small AP that I put together. Much better then the other sites I tried yours is the best. I'll donate a few bucks to put towards keeping your domain from lapsing even if the service is coming down you can at least keep the name you built up. |
Eddie Lampert
Phaser Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.31 10:44:00 -
[119]
Its a loss for our corporation, but thanks for the services provided through the years!
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Get at least 5% interest a week with Phaser Inc. |
Panthekin
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Posted - 2010.12.31 10:54:00 -
[120]
EveMesh is another alternative I am currently looking at. BTW, is it possible to have several uploaders running and therefore serve two or more market networks?
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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2011.01.01 01:27:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 01/01/2011 01:28:30
Originally by: Panthekin
BTW, is it possible to have several uploaders running and therefore serve two or more market networks?
We had the uploader POST to a HTTP resource which just immediately shoved it on an AMQP message queue system, which anyone could subscribe to and get instant updates in much the same way that EVE Central did with email feeds, but with much less overhead and delay. Such a system is actually pretty easy to set up. EVE Central fed off our updates for at least a while.
As of today, I am officially discontinuing support for all the sites, services and systems under the MMMetrics label and from this point onwards, these may all be unavailable until future notice. I will be starting the process of shutting the sites and their associated backends, databases and application servers down for good with an aim to have it all offline and tidied up by Monday. I will be retaining the domains for the time being.
See you folks around, maybe back in these forums if CCP gets their act together before too long...
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Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2011.01.01 01:31:00 -
[122]
Thanks again for all you did for Eve all these years and hope to see you around with another great project.
--
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for Eve API.
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HighlanderUK
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
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Posted - 2011.01.01 13:39:00 -
[123]
Yes, James, i wish CCP would sort themselves out, but thanks for a cracking service, pity it couldn't be run as a small enterprise and at least cover its own costs.
Best of luck with your studies and future endeavours. |
Harima sama
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Posted - 2011.01.01 19:12:00 -
[124]
Are you sure you wouldn't be willing to sell the site?
I've got a team of developers, high end servers (several of them in the 4-figure a month rental range), designers, all that jazz.
Anyways, if you aren't willing to sell the site, I think you should really try monetizing it. I'm the head of a web advertising and marketing agency. We monetize websites for a living. I've got access to thousands of advertisers that we can rotate through and make money on your site with.
And no I'm not talking Adsense (or Adcents).
Anyways, it sound's like you're pretty stiff about your decision so I won't push you too hard, but you've got a decent userbase and in my eyes, huge potential to make a great amount of revenue a month.
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HighlanderUK
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
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Posted - 2011.01.02 20:47:00 -
[125]
i believe the issue is not 'the ability to make money from the site', but that it's against CCP rules to make money from an EVE-based site - i think.
i dare say had there been more donations/funding/hosting, financial incentives and the ability to charge for membership, we might be looking at a different path/future.
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Maker of the finest Scottish Warrior II drones with Active Peat
Camouflage(tm) -- so dark, you won't see them coming!! |
Karbowiak
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.02 21:16:00 -
[126]
Originally by: HighlanderUK
i believe the issue is not 'the ability to make money from the site', but that it's against CCP rules to make money from an EVE-based site - i think.
i dare say had there been more donations/funding/hosting, financial incentives and the ability to charge for membership, we might be looking at a different path/future.
Its not illegal (or against the EULA) to monetize a site using banners.
If i were to sell EVE Merchandice without prior concent of CCP, yes THEN it would be illegal.
But seeing as you aren't selling anything by putting banners or ads on the site, you're not breaking the eula! ;)
EVE-Kill is interely funded this way, sofar we've not heard any complaints
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Zahn Retmas
Caldari
BIG
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.07 15:10:00 -
[127]
I am sad to see EM go down, it has been such an outstanding service to the community. Thank you so much for providing it.
ZR
"Try not, do or do not, there is no try!' - Ancient green guy... |
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