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Vogue Skynet Nexus	Posted - 2010.12.09 12:44:00 - [181] Edited by: Vogue on 09/12/2010 12:46:11 Edited by: Vogue on 09/12/2010 12:44:30 USA maintained its hegemony in the world since the end of WW2 and through the cold war. And through that ensured its ideal of relative peace in the world. Wikileaks has given me confidence in the capability of the diplomatic apparatus and state department in assessing global political issues and developing frameworks to deal with them. USA does some shady business. But if wikileaks happened in the 1960's then a lot of stuff that would have come out could have started WW3. But I think being #1 in the world makes some people a bit giddy or drunk with that power. I am sure this was the case with the British Empire. This seems to be the case with US Republicans who live in a hazy bubble of American exceptionalism. That is what USA does is best and there are no other examples in the world that can better them. They say the US health system is the best in the world. But the UN has ranked it 39th in the world. This Illiterate patriotism is ill focused and arrogant. If you think your country is #1 and that's it you loose humility, balance of perspective. I think the current US administration is dealing with global issues the best it can. And fully utilizing the diplomatic tools it has available. The previous two administrations under George W Bush ran the White House like an idealogical fort. Ignoring and not using diplomatic tools that the state department and other government entities provided. Now China and other countries don't want to follow mechanisms for doing global politics that have been established as part of US global hegemony. China and USA's economies are symbiotically linked. However at present relations between the two countries are very frosty. ..................................................
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Dead Muppets	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:08:00 - [182] Originally by: Astenion You're not going to get a gay person out of the closet by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is gay. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. WTF ? That's a pretty bizarre analogy. Let me try my hand at this... You're not going to get a criminal to change his ways by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is a criminal. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. Now if my neighbour was that unrepentant criminal I would have been glad to have been told. Maybe something else... You're not going to get a superhero to change his ways by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is a superhero. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. Oooooh, my neighbour is a superhero ! I always suspected ! Not going anywhere with this, just wanting to point a spotlight at the most bizarre analogy so far. Posting in the "week in jail without bail or evidence for a one night stand" thread... "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned." ----- Amicus Morte is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:28:00 - [183] Originally by: Louis deGuerre Originally by: Astenion You're not going to get a gay person out of the closet by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is gay. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. WTF ? That's a pretty bizarre analogy. Let me try my hand at this... You're not going to get a criminal to change his ways by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is a criminal. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. Now if my neighbour was that unrepentant criminal I would have been glad to have been told. Maybe something else... You're not going to get a superhero to change his ways by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is a superhero. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. Oooooh, my neighbour is a superhero ! I always suspected ! Not going anywhere with this, just wanting to point a spotlight at the most bizarre analogy so far. Posting in the "week in jail without bail or evidence for a one night stand" thread... "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned." Did you not get that memo? 'Don't ask, don't tell an analogy.' Gay is far worse than criminal, that's an universal truth even the taliban subscribe to. I'm interested in watching this witchtrial to see how far the womans right to backpaddle on bad sex stretches. How long after the fact can you discover you've been violated and should all men in fact be punished for breaching the integrity of the female form? Delenda est achura.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:40:00 - [184] Edited by: Riedle on 09/12/2010 13:40:14 Another take on wikileaks: Quote: Julian Assange, the boss of WikiLeaks, gave himself the online nickname Mendax. It means liar in Latin. It's a good fit for him. Take the word WikiLeaks itself. Wiki is a Hawaiian word that means quick. But its meaning on the Internet is different. A wiki is a website that allows many people to collaborate on something quickly - like Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone in the world can edit. So it doesn't just mean quick. It means quick and democratic. Which is the opposite of WikiLeaks. Only Assange, the unelected boss of WikiLeaks, gets to decide what's published. Wikileaks' original mandate was to expose repressive countries such as China, Russia and Iran. But Assange vetoed that. He's all about being anti-American. But wiki is only half the name. The other half is leaks. A leak implies someone on the inside of an institution voluntarily releases information. The thousands of classified military and diplomatic documents WikiLeaks has published were not leaked by someone with lawful access to them. They were stolen. One of the alleged thieves, a U.S. soldier named Bradley Manning, told a fellow hacker he was feeling sad and conflicted because of his sexuality, and "no one took any notice of me," and his theft might change that. He was about to be kicked out of the Army for assault, so he had to act fast. ThatÆs not a leak on principle. That's an act of sabotage by an emotional infant. Does WikiLeaks distance itself from Manning's alleged theft? The opposite: Its logo now has the words "Free Bradley" added to it. Is stealing secret information justifiable if it blows the whistle on wrongdoing? Perhaps. But that's not what WikiLeaks does. It doesnÆt embarrass wrongdoers. It exposes and endangers real whistleblowers. WikiLeaks published a document that named an Algerian activist covertly aiding the democracy movement there. It identified a Venezuelan reporter secretly exposing the appalling conditions of hospitals for the poor. Both are real whistleblowers. Both were outed by Assange. Assange admits WikiLeaks will probably end up with "blood on our hands." But he's not too worried. Vladimir Putin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad can't believe their good luck. So itÆs not wiki. It's not leaks. It's not whistleblowing. It's not even journalism. Assange got his hands on e-mails sent by Venezuela's ambassador to Argentina. He tried to auction them to the highest bidder - presumably to Chavez, too. That's not journalism. That's a shakedown. Maybe even a willingness to keep secrets, for the right price. Then there's Assange's threat that if he's treated improperly - say, if he's forced to stand trial for ** in Sweden - he'll release another batch of secrets, he has labelled "insurance." If a real journalist had real news, he'd publish it for its own sake. But by using his "news" as a bargaining chip, he gives away his game. It's not journalism. It's espionage. It's a weapon of war. And if police try to hold him accountable to the law, he'll use his weapon. Assange revealed secret U.S. counterterrorism work in Yemen. That will likely end now, and Yemen may fall to al-Qaida. Do you doubt if WikiLeaks was around in the 1940s it would have tipped off the **s to D-Day or leaked Anne Frank's hiding place too?
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:50:00 - [185] Originally by: Riedle Teabag rant Copy paste from Fox? Delenda est achura.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:07:00 - [186] C&P from Toronto Sun.
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:25:00 - [187] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 09/12/2010 14:25:50 Originally by: Riedle Originally by: If a real journalist had real news, he'd publish it for its own sake. But by using his "news" as a bargaining chip, he gives away his game. It's not journalism. It's espionage. It's a weapon of war. And if police try to hold him accountable to the law, he'll use his weapon. That is just righteous. Maybe the stuff he is holding is so sensitive that he knows that it would really screw **** up if he released it and knows that it is better for him to keep that info under lock and key until the time requires it to save his ass or to blast those how wrongfully imprison him or at the worse, kill him. See I can make blanket hypothesis about a persons motivations without any personal contact or knowledge of an individual as well EDIT: typos Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:33:00 - [188] Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks C&P from Toronto Sun. ezralevant.com actually, sorry I meant to attribute it.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Dead Muppets	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:40:00 - [189] Originally by: Ezra Levant Do you doubt if WikiLeaks was around in the 1940s it would have tipped off the **s to D-Day or leaked Anne Frank's hiding place too? Ezra Levant is not very relevant if he needs Godwin to make an argument. s ! **s everywhere ! OMG ! ----- Amicus Morte is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.12.09 15:36:00 - [190] Originally by: Verone Bull**** allegations no doubt, as a reason to detain him and try to silence him. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937110 Sad day for freedom of speech and transparency of leadership. And a good day for the right of Privacy. Or do you think that A) Your bank should have the right ( Freedom of speech ) to publish on the internet .Your bank account number .Your sort code .Your PIN number .Your mothers maiden name ( If you have one ) B) Any U.S. Military operative should have the right ( freedom of speech ) to publish on the internet .The access code to U.S. Nuclear Silos .Information on how to target and launch U.S. nuclear missiles .Launch codes for said missiles If the answer to either of the above is NO then you recognise that the right ( freedom of speech ) has to be balanced with other rights including but no neccessarilly limited to the right of privacy ( a.k.a. Secrecy at Business / Governmental level ) If the answer to either of the above questions was yes then I'd say go away and come back to these forums once you have finished going through puberty.
Astenion Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project	Posted - 2010.12.09 15:44:00 - [191] Originally by: Louis deGuerre Originally by: Astenion You're not going to get a gay person out of the closet by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is gay. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. WTF ? That's a pretty bizarre analogy. Let me try my hand at this... You're not going to get a criminal to change his ways by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is a criminal. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. Now if my neighbour was that unrepentant criminal I would have been glad to have been told. Maybe something else... You're not going to get a superhero to change his ways by telling everyone behind his/her back that he/she is a superhero. That's only going to make that person resent you and never trust you again, even though you may have had only the best intentions and feel it was right for him/her. Oooooh, my neighbour is a superhero ! I always suspected ! Not going anywhere with this, just wanting to point a spotlight at the most bizarre analogy so far. Posting in the "week in jail without bail or evidence for a one night stand" thread... "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned." Haha very nice! I used the gay analogy because I thought the most helpless feeling in the world would be to be publicly outed before one was ready, and would breed resentment and anger towards those who did the deed. It had nothing to do with what I think of gay people, don't be silly. To have all your secrets exposed for all the world to see would be probably the most humiliating thing for a person to go through, and for it to happen to a gay person would be that much more due to the stereotypes and prejudices. The US is probably feeling just as helpless right now because it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.09 15:47:00 - [192] Originally by: Dav Varan If the answer to either of the above questions was yes then I'd say go away and come back to these forums once you have finished going through puberty. From Wikipedia: Rhetorical questions encourage the listener to think about what the (often obvious) answer to the question must be. Yes Sir. It must be the only valid answer.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Dead Muppets	Posted - 2010.12.09 16:05:00 - [193] Originally by: Astenion Haha very nice! I used the gay analogy because I thought the most helpless feeling in the world would be to be publicly outed before one was ready, and would breed resentment and anger towards those who did the deed. It had nothing to do with what I think of gay people, don't be silly. To have all your secrets exposed for all the world to see would be probably the most humiliating thing for a person to go through, and for it to happen to a gay person would be that much more due to the stereotypes and prejudices. The US is probably feeling just as helpless right now because it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Fair enough summarization. I didn't mean anything by it, except to show that was a bit odd way to formulate that and that depending on the subject chosen in that sentence it can be either good or bad for the person (or the people around the person) for his secrets to be exposed, heavily depending on how people see that person. ----- Amicus Morte is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
Citizen20100211442 Minmatar Carebear Evolution Without Remorse.	Posted - 2010.12.09 16:52:00 - [194] Damn you people fail attempting compare wikileaks with gays and credit card numbers Imagine you know your neighbour is pedophile or rapist. Would you warn people, so everyone should know? If you are real patriot - you will The stuff US was doing was dirty politic games and covering war crimes. Everyone should know real face
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.12.09 17:19:00 - [195] Originally by: Dav Varan Edited by: Dav Varan on 09/12/2010 15:55:08 Originally by: Verone Bull** allegations no doubt, as a reason to detain him and try to silence him. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937110 Sad day for freedom of speech and transparency of leadership. And a good day for the right of Privacy. Or do you think that A) Your bank should have the right ( Freedom of speech ) to publish on the internet .Your bank account number .Your sort code .Your PIN number .Your mothers maiden name ( If you have one ) Tsk Tsk. Very bad example. Banks have been "Losing" this information to the public like clockwork every few years for some random unfortunates. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by:** CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Florio Miniature Giant Space Hamsters	Posted - 2010.12.09 17:40:00 - [196] Dear 4chan, thank you sincerely for taking action on the wikileaks situation. Keep doing it and I hope you step it up to stay in the news. Yep, an ex-bob thanking the bees. Good going chaps.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.09 18:31:00 - [197] Originally by: Florio Yep, an ex-bob thanking the bees. Good going chaps. Somehow everything is interconnected. Good job rap news maker, really.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2010.12.09 22:34:00 - [198] Originally by: Sokratesz Might want to take the rest of his post into account instead of making yourself look like a 'USA' chanting ******. Anyone who belives Assange doesn't have an angenda is fooling them selves or a liar. Little more can be expected from the blame America first crowd. The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.09 22:58:00 - [199] Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 09/12/2010 22:57:58 Originally by: Adunh Slavy Anyone who belives Assange doesn't have an angenda is fooling them selves or a liar. Little more can be expected from the blame America first crowd. Ofc he has , why should't he ? You can even listen to it or read it.
Astenion Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project	Posted - 2010.12.09 23:16:00 - [200] Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 09/12/2010 22:57:58 Originally by: Adunh Slavy Anyone who belives Assange doesn't have an angenda is fooling them selves or a liar. Little more can be expected from the blame America first crowd. Ofc he has , why should't he ? You can even listen to it or read it. Why shouldn't he? Well, because he's claiming to be a journalist, and a journalist with an agenda to intentionally do harm to a government instead of simply reporting his findings in a neutral and unbiased way isn't a journalist anymore, but rather an ENEMY to not only said government, but free press and free speech in general. Had he gone after China, Russia, Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea with the zeal he has had for the US, I might be inclined to feel differently. He is perverting the entire reason Wikileaks exists, using it as a vehicle to further his own personal vendetta against the US. This is why I don't feel he should be protected under the whole freedom of the press/freedom of speech laws, because he IS NOT the press. WIKILEAKS should be protected, but not Assange.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.09 23:19:00 - [201] Journalists have agendas too. ISK for example. It's not that simple.
Astenion Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project	Posted - 2010.12.09 23:24:00 - [202] Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks Journalists have agendas too. ISK for example. It's not that simple. Yes but real journalists, not self-proclaimed ones, do not make it their life's work to ruin the name of a person, country, or organization. If they did, they wouldn't be journalists, they'd be propaganda ministers or politicians.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.09 23:49:00 - [203] Real journalists ? Who is a real journalist ? Maybe somebody with a degree ? Let's take a look at Bill-shutup-Oreilly. wikipedia claims: O'Reilly returned to school in 1973[26] and earned an M.A. in Broadcast Journalism from Boston University So here we have an example. He is a journalist and he is not self-proclaimed. But for many he sounds rather like an propaganda minister of hate than a journalist.
Astenion Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:03:00 - [204] Edited by: Astenion on 10/12/2010 00:05:33 Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks Real journalists ? Who is a real journalist ? Maybe somebody with a degree ? Let's take a look at Bill-shutup-Oreilly. wikipedia claims: O'Reilly returned to school in 1973[26] and earned an M.A. in Broadcast Journalism from Boston University So here we have an example. He is a journalist and he is not self-proclaimed. But for many he sounds rather like an propaganda minister of hate than a journalist. Bill O'Reilly is an effing douchebag, but he actually IS a real journalist, just not with FOX. Comparing Assange with O'Reilly is apt; both of them are full of sh!t. And yes, a journalist IS someone with a degree in, well, JOURNALISM, whether broadcast or another major. That's precisely what a journalist is. Your questioning that is like saying, "I read A Brief History of Time, what makes YOU a nuclear physicist? A Ph.D in physics? You think you can call yourself a physicist just because you graduated from MIT?" Well, yes it does and yes he or she can...THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF A F@CKING DEGREE. A Hunter S. Thompson Assange is not, no matter how hard he tries.
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:06:00 - [205] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Anyone who belives Assange doesn't have an angenda is fooling them selves or a liar. Everyone has an agenda. At this point it is up to numerous individuals hypothesizing on what exactly his agenda is, but truly we will never know exactly what it is until he actually speaks of it. Originally by: Astenion Why shouldn't he? Well, because he's claiming to be a journalist, and a journalist with an agenda to intentionally do harm to a government instead of simply reporting his findings in a neutral and unbiased way isn't a journalist anymore, but rather an ENEMY to not only said government, but free press and free speech in general. I am not sure you can really draw those lines as cleanly as you want them to be drawn. I dare say that there is no hard line definition or ethical standards to follow other then to check your sources and publish only what you know to be true, which we all know that a large percentage of the worlds media outlets fail miserably at that as well. Originally by: Astenion Had he gone after China, Russia, Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea with the zeal he has had for the US, I might be inclined to feel differently. He is perverting the entire reason Wikileaks exists, using it as a vehicle to further his own personal vendetta against the US. This is why I don't feel he should be protected under the whole freedom of the press/freedom of speech laws, because he IS NOT the press. WIKILEAKS should be protected, but not Assange. The following is a list of releases from Wikileaks since 2007 when Assange came in as the head. I will admit that this list was extrapolated from Wikipages, but I think that most of these can be verified with some research I do not have time to do at this point. But I list them in counter to your statement that makes it sound like all leaks from Wikileaks have been targeted at the US. - a decision to assassinate government officials signed by Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys." - In August 2007, The Guardian a story about corruption by the family of the former Kenyan leader Daniel arap Moi based on information provided via WikiLeaks. - a March 2003 copy of Standard Operating Procedures for Camp Delta detailing the protocol of the U.S. Army at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp was released - released allegations of illegal activities at the Cayman Islands branch of the Swiss Bank Julius Baer - published what they referred to as "the collected secret 'bibles' of Scientology," - membership list of the far-right British National Party was posted to WikiLeaks, after briefly appearing on a blog. - WikiLeaks released 86 telephone intercept recordings of Peruvian politicians and businessmen involved in the "Petrogate" oil scandal. - released 6,780 Congressional Research Service reports - of contributors to the Norm Coleman senatorial campaign - set of documents belonging to Barclays Bank that had been ordered removed from the website of The Guardian - report relating to a serious nuclear accident that had occurred at the Iranian Natanz nuclear facility in 2009. - internal documents from Kaupthing Bank were leaked - British document advising the security services on how to avoid documents being leaked - announced that a super-injunction was being used by the commodities company, Trafigura to gag The Guardian newspaper from reporting on a leaked internal document regarding a toxic dumping incident in the Ivory Coast - hosted copies of e-mail correspondence between climate scientists, although they were not originally leaked to WikiLeaks. - 570,000 intercepts of pager messages sent on the day of the September 11 attacks - published the alleged lists of forbidden/illegal web addresses for Australia, Denmark and Thailand. These were originally created to prevent access to child ****ography & terrorism, but the leaks revealed that other sites that are unrelated Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Reiisha Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:12:00 - [206] Edited by: Reiisha on 10/12/2010 00:15:02 Originally by: Astenion Had he gone after China, Russia, Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea with the zeal he has had for the US, I might be inclined to feel differently. I still don't understand this argument. China does nothing to hide what it does, it openly admits its "crimes" and is proud of them. Russia does whatever the hell they want anyway, they don't berate anyone for human rights issues, only important stuff (the big picture, if you will. not that human rights aren't important, they're just not worth starting wars over.) Iran and North Korea really don't care about anyone. Iran defends its "crimes" by saying it's no ones business, and honestly, it isn't. North Korea goes one step further by being almost completely isolated form the world. I know this sounds cruel but honestly, the people there have to stand up for themselves and create/revolt their own nation, because it's THEM that have to live there. Same was the case with Iraq imho. Venezuela i don't know anything about, so i can't comment on that. Thing is that none of those countries are trying to tell any other country what to think, do and how to rule over their denizens. One of the biggest reasons the US has a beef with them is because they tend to ignore the 'advice' they're given. Don't misunderstand me, there's some pretty nasty things going on there, but their foreign policy is less manipulative and more straightforward. edit: One big reason for Wikileaks publishing so many US papers: It's what they're given. The very nature of the US bureaucracy is that more people have access to sensitive materials, and they're not as indoctrinated as people in the same positions in other countries. In this case the US is simply the victim of the size of it's own bucreaucracy. Originally by: Astenion Why shouldn't he? Well, because he's claiming to be a journalist, and a journalist with an agenda to intentionally do harm to a government instead of simply reporting his findings in a neutral and unbiased way isn't a journalist anymore, but rather an ENEMY to not only said government, but free press and free speech in general. Fox News. "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Astenion Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:15:00 - [207] Not all leaks have been targeted at the US, I'm not saying that. I'm saying he is largely ignoring other serious, real stories and leaks from around the globe in order to make a giant spectacle of the US. I completely agree that the US should have its feet held to the fire for its misdeeds, but there are much, MUCH worse things happening around the globe, yet an American ambassador's opinion of Berlusconi takes precedence. I'm not saying they're not reporting on other things, but their focus is clearly on the US. Again, I blame Assange, not Wikileaks. I feel it needs new management, that's all.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:23:00 - [208] Originally by: Reiisha [ China ...Iran Lot of true things in your post Reiisha. Those countries do a lot of straightforward nasty things like blocking Wikileaks (and other sites!) or claiming Assange is a US agent. So we can see he is getting lot of attention from almost every nation. Why ?? Think for yourself :-)
Astenion Blame The Bunny Reverberation Project	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:25:00 - [209] Originally by: Reiisha Edited by: Reiisha on 10/12/2010 00:15:02 Originally by: Astenion Had he gone after China, Russia, Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea with the zeal he has had for the US, I might be inclined to feel differently. I still don't understand this argument. China does nothing to hide what it does, it openly admits its "crimes" and is proud of them. Russia does whatever the hell they want anyway, they don't berate anyone for human rights issues, only important stuff (the big picture, if you will. not that human rights aren't important, they're just not worth starting wars over.) Iran and North Korea really don't care about anyone. Iran defends its "crimes" by saying it's no ones business, and honestly, it isn't. North Korea goes one step further by being almost completely isolated form the world. I know this sounds cruel but honestly, the people there have to stand up for themselves and create/revolt their own nation, because it's THEM that have to live there. Same was the case with Iraq imho. Venezuela i don't know anything about, so i can't comment on that. Thing is that none of those countries are trying to tell any other country what to think, do and how to rule over their denizens. One of the biggest reasons the US has a beef with them is because they tend to ignore the 'advice' they're given. Don't misunderstand me, there's some pretty nasty things going on there, but their foreign policy is less manipulative and more straightforward. edit: One big reason for Wikileaks publishing so many US papers: It's what they're given. The very nature of the US bureaucracy is that more people have access to sensitive materials, and they're not as indoctrinated as people in the same positions in other countries. In this case the US is simply the victim of the size of it's own bucreaucracy. Originally by: Astenion Why shouldn't he? Well, because he's claiming to be a journalist, and a journalist with an agenda to intentionally do harm to a government instead of simply reporting his findings in a neutral and unbiased way isn't a journalist anymore, but rather an ENEMY to not only said government, but free press and free speech in general. Fox News. Really? You really think Russia's foreign policy is less manipulative, as well as North Korea's or Iran's? Russia's foreign policy has been on the backburner for years because their own troops were selling APCs for f@cking vodka. Their entire country was in shambles and only the past few years has it really become the powerhouse it is today. Putin basically publicly assassinated a journalist...you think that's less manipulative? North Korea just killed a bunch of South Korean civilians because they wanted to show their ass, still maintain death camps and kidnap Japanese citizens and force them to work under Kim Jong Il's regime as translators, and the Iranian government last year was literally killing its own citizens on international television because they were protesting the government. Do you still think their foreign policy is forthright and has their own people in mind?
Tora Nevaal	Posted - 2010.12.10 00:30:00 - [210] In my own personal viewpoint it doesn't seem to me as though Assange or wikileaks is intentionally attacking the United States. The release of the diplomatic cables was just as damning to many allies and enemies as it was to the US. America is by far the largest target on any global matter and as such it is to be expected that it will take the most hits and garner the most attention in any matter of this nature. The US is simply a bigger target with the most dirt to hide. Also, most of the leaks against America that have received international attention appear to have all been leaked by a single disenfranchised army PFC. The acts of one man does not constitute a directed and premeditated international smear campaign. Yes, I would love to see some dirt on other developed western nations who hold themselves up in such high regard, but until Iceland starts invading other sovereign countries, it's just not going to happen. Nor do I truly believe that the release of any of this information is going to truly jeopardize any lives or deter someone from seeking the aid of foreign powers when it is needed. The truth that we all know is that none of what was said was a secret to begin with. The only difference is that up until now this information has never been disseminated on such a massive scale with such a formal presentation from such an official source. Every country and government in the world has intelligence gathering services and they are all doing the same thing, trying to find out each others dirty little secrets- and after centuries of practice, many of them are very good at it. It only becomes a problem now because the people; you, me, the crazy dude down the street, are finally finding out what the government is truly doing. The point isn't that America, or any other government is imperfect; the point is that in spite of the monumental wealth and power the states holds, it chooses to use that power to it's own self serving means while neglecting the needs of less affluent nations and still trying to maintain an image of altruism. That is what these leaks expose. I'm surprised that we haven't seen more leaks from the private industry sector. I would love for a scientist with Phillip Morris to leak papers admitting that tobacco causes cancer, or from Ford Motors showing that their cars are unsafe, or an accountant with proof that Goldman Sachs has been cooking the books for 20 yeas. That's the kind of dirt that needs to be exposed to the public.

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