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Solo PVP dead. Small doesn't matter. Long live the corporate drone???

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Yvella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.10 23:00:00 - [1] So along with "Eve is DYING", solo PVP is dead is a regular topic in EVE. I understand that people do solo still (a forever diminishing numbers), where solo means alt scout, un-scan-able probing ship. Ganking newbie ratters is also still very easy (yawn). However... just hopping in a ship and trying to get "fights" is over??? "Small" gang is somewhere from 5-20 and the outcome if you stick around or make a small mistake is inevitable as friends are never far. Equally game mechanics (and sheer HP) on Sov mods bias super caps and mega blobs only. Yes I know it is a MMORPG, but I really don't see the "butterfly effect". Even the most effective small gangs have no way of impacting final outcome. Is this inevitable as Eve saturates? Is this true? Is this a desirable outcome? Could small tweeks in game design open the game up a little? Discuss. Also trolls I am really really interested in shouting un-reasoned arguments. Oh wait
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.10 23:02:00 - [2] sigh... Sig.Learning skills vote.
Magnus Orin Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.12.10 23:05:00 - [3] Get off the forums and un-dock. Pvp happens every day in Eve. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you.
masternerdguy Gallente Meerkat Maner	Posted - 2010.12.10 23:06:00 - [4] solo isnt dead
Yvella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.10 23:06:00 - [5] Undocked. PVP'd. Undocked again, PVP'd some more. Now back to topic?
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.10 23:57:00 - [6] "Inevitable" and "as EVE saturates" ... it's a bit late to use these phrases, considering that the game's been out and saturated for 7+ years. They COULD implement solo PVP, but even in other games you still have the friends be able to log on or come over to help out, so the only solo PVP you have, even in other games, is /duel. And, I mean, they could implement that here, teleport two people to some instanced deadspace pocket with no concord, but I don't think it's a feature that's requested very often. This game was never about solo. Look at the ship designs, no ship is a solopwnmobile, every ship has something missing from it (either DPS is low, or no defenses, or not enough midslots to tackle).
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.11 00:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Merouk Baas "Inevitable" and "as EVE saturates" ... it's a bit late to use these phrases, considering that the game's been out and saturated for 7+ years. They COULD implement solo PVP, but even in other games you still have the friends be able to log on or come over to help out, so the only solo PVP you have, even in other games, is /duel. And, I mean, they could implement that here, teleport two people to some instanced deadspace pocket with no concord, but I don't think it's a feature that's requested very often. This game was never about solo. Look at the ship designs, no ship is a solopwnmobile, every ship has something missing from it (either DPS is low, or no defenses, or not enough midslots to tackle). This game was much more small gang oriented 4 years ago. And even 2 years ago. Every major game altering patch pushed the balance away from small to big. Small isn't dead yet, of course, but people who played this game for years can easily spot the change. People worry that this trend will continue with future patches.
Templar Dane Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.12.11 00:21:00 - [8] It's dead, jim. But I do like to kick it from time to time.
Wandering Deathstriker	Posted - 2010.12.11 00:24:00 - [9] It's hard to solo unless your a really fast ship or find someone who isn't going to call all his buddies.
Diesel47	Posted - 2010.12.11 00:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Wandering Deathstriker It's hard to solo unless your a really fast ship or find someone who isn't going to call all his buddies. This. Nobody is man enough to fight by themselves.

Aiwha Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.11 01:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Aiwha on 11/12/2010 01:11:37 Drake, Hurricane, Falcon, Dramiel, Vagabond, Stabber, Caracal, Rupture, Rifter, Incursis, Pilgrim, Curse, and Nighthawk would all like a word with you. Gullible
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2010.12.11 01:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Diesel47 Originally by: Wandering Deathstriker It's hard to solo unless your a really fast ship or find someone who isn't going to call all his buddies. This. Nobody is man enough to fight by themselves. I am, but it usually ends with my death due to being outnumbered. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
ILikeMarkets	Posted - 2010.12.11 01:42:00 - [13] Yea... it's a shame about solo not being the most viable thing in the world. But, it is an MMO after all. Going out solo means being in a fast ship. Big won't cut it. Any small gang will have stunlock (aka ECM) + bubble + stasis to shut you down. Cookie cutter, like any other MMO, will make you somewhat viable in those situations. The magic of EVE died with the realization that things like ECM had been implemented to stop solo pvp from taking place. My first time not being able to fight, fly, or really do anything pretty much brought me back to earth on the concept that MMOs are exactly what they seem: multiplayer or die games. So basically, tl;dr: suck it up, get yourself a corp, and play the way you are supposed to play like the rest of us.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.11 01:52:00 - [14] Originally by: ILikeMarkets Yea... it's a shame about solo not being the most viable thing in the world. But, it is an MMO after all. Going out solo means being in a fast ship. Big won't cut it. Any small gang will have stunlock (aka ECM) + bubble + stasis to shut you down. Cookie cutter, like any other MMO, will make you somewhat viable in those situations. The magic of EVE died with the realization that things like ECM had been implemented to stop solo pvp from taking place. My first time not being able to fight, fly, or really do anything pretty much brought me back to earth on the concept that MMOs are exactly what they seem: multiplayer or die games. So basically, tl;dr: suck it up, get yourself a corp, and play the way you are supposed to play like the rest of us. 2 years you could be in a big ship and be fast and successful at solo PvP. It was very expensive, but it was an option for elite players. And back then you could actually use battlefield intelligence to make strategy without worrying too much that every other noob you engage will light a cyno and drop 30 man gang with dictors on your ass before you even have time to react. EVE used to be better.
Xolornem Srrpep	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Xolornem Srrpep on 11/12/2010 02:01:17 How to get XXproXX 1v1 1: Get in rifter, eject 1 ammo at Jita 4-4 and name it "frig vs whatever pvp" 2: Wait until some ******* in a battlecruiser grabs it 3: Dock 4: Undock in battlecruiser/HAC 5: own How to get solo PvP and not die when you lose or people warp in 1: Get Tengu, mount 100mn afterburner speed tanking fit ??? PvP
Greymoon Avatar Caldari Reasonable People True Reign	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:14:00 - [16] Edited by: Greymoon Avatar on 11/12/2010 02:15:48 This is garbage.... really. I routinely fly solo, often in deep nullsec, and typically not by intent or purpose. My last solo adventure started out as a cruiser "fun roam" of 8 cruisers. We flew into another fleet and DIAF, that is everyone except me... I warped out as my shield tank buckled, and found myself alone in hostile 0.0, 30+ jumps from home. I cruised around for a few days messing with the bots and playing logoffski games until I managed to tackle an unsuspecting hurricane with my arbitrator. She was tackled and cap neutralized, while my light drones applied the DPS. She was rescued by a pair of drakes moments later. It was a good fight while it lasted, and I had alot of fun. In EvE you WIN by undocking and getting aggro. You lose by spinning in dock, wishing you could play... ...
mirel yirrin Gallente Ore Mongers BAT PHONE	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Yvella Stuff Small gang PvP isn't dead. If you want to use a metaphor, it's just gone into hiding to avoid arrest. It has gotten harder, you have to pick fights very carefully, you have to carry a heavy weight of experience with you and you need to trust every single member of your small gang. tl;dr try harder. ---------------------------------
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:21:00 - [18] There's solo PVP... but it's usually solo PVPPPPPPPPPPP. The trick with solo PVP is in how you deal with it. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Artemis Rose Clandestine Vector	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:23:00 - [19] Leave 0.0 Roam lowsec that is not called Tama or Amamake. Profit! *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Xolornem Srrpep	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:27:00 - [20] Would be nice if there was an additional tackling module or addition to heavy 'dictors, which, when activated, would make it so that fleet members can't warp to the person who's tackled. Perhaps it could even be a high slot module if that was deemed balanced; I've found situations, especially with Minmatar ships, where I have high slots I can't use for turrets and would rather not waste on neuts/probe launchers. (Missile-turret splitting is out of the question!)

Alt Obviously	Posted - 2010.12.11 02:36:00 - [21] Whenever someone uses absolutes (like solo fights are "dead"), that statement will always be criticised and undermined, as has been done in this thread. The truth is, however, that solo or truly "small" gang fights are becoming increasingly scarce, and require ever more effort and luck (i.e. finding someone who doesn't have dozens of buddies around). To me, and obviously many others, this seems very unfortunate. Solo / small gang fights are to many the most challenging and fun ways to PvP. Rather than just complain, maybe it's more useful to see what can be done about it. What is making is making it scarcer than before (e.g. three years ago)? What would be feasible ways to make it more ubiquitous again?
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.12.11 03:11:00 - [22] The largest problem of solo-ing is fight mismatches. Earlier today I shot at 9 different targets and was shot at by 6 different targets. Only once was there exchange of fire, all other cases was me firing at something that didn't want to engage, because they would most likely die, or others firing at me while I didn't want to engage, because I had no chance of winning. As skill points, ship choices, fits and roles diversify and strategies get perfected the odds of finding a 'matching 'fight gets smaller and smaller. Many ships have very small 'engagement windows', that is to say, situations where the outcome of the fight is unsure. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Nagen	Posted - 2010.12.11 03:18:00 - [23] I live in NPC 0.0 currently in a small corp that has only one other small corp blue. My corp's killboard is filled with killmails that have 1-5 ships on them. Not lacking any small gang pvp here. EVE is not saturated. EVE is just lacking in players who can think creatively and also undock and actually play the game instead of just talking about what they think about the game. If we had people actually playing the game and pvping instead of discussing pvp, we'd all have 10x more fights.
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.11 03:22:00 - [24] Edited by: Merouk Baas on 11/12/2010 03:22:08 So how is this different from other MMO's with world PVP? EDIT: also, "not for 18 months" pointless.
Ryusoath Orillian INDUSTIENCE	Posted - 2010.12.11 03:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Artemis Rose Leave 0.0 Roam lowsec that is not called Tama or Amamake. Profit! this man is correct. a long time ago he attacked me in a belt (me brutix/him rifter) he died but he tried to find a fight where ever he could. OP :don't make ****ty threads Conniving Clown Productions
northwesten Amarr Sigillum Militum Xpisti R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.12.11 03:27:00 - [26] if you can't solo on pvp then maybe you need to learn how to solo pvp? I know plenty who solo doing fine.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr	Posted - 2010.12.11 05:52:00 - [27] I am solo 99% of the time, and seldom have trouble having a blast and finding fights. Solo does not mean 1v1, people are risk averse in EVE. Get used to fighting ships above your class or more than 1 at a time. It is doable, and it is fun.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.11 06:42:00 - [28] People who say you can solo fine are lying. Its extremely difficult. Case in point: Last fight. I get jumped by a Hurricane and a rifter. I'm in a buffer Proteus so I engage them. Fight Fight, wearing the hurricane down, ignoring the rifter. More war targets appear in local. Jammed. No choice but to tank the gank till I can dock in station. Its just pointless. There is no realistic method of 'having a good fight' in solo pvp. You must gank something weaker or you must run a lot. Very rarely can you go toe to toe with an equal opponent and see who is the better pilot because invariably halfway through the fight you will have company. This is not so much the case with Minmatar I guess since they have incredible speed but as a Gallante pilot I find this is the case 99% of the time with blaster ships. I'm basically relegated to hunting and ganking targets where the outcome is 100% certain and the deed is done faster then a response can react. Now numbers should always win imo. This is working as intended in that respect. As a soloer you need to be a rogue not a warrior. What I think makes this situation untenable is the bonuses given to gangs when they already have a distinct advantage. Gang links and gang bonuses not applying to single players who have spent the months of training to learn them is a broken mechanic. A gang bonus should apply to the solo player if they have learned the leadership skills. Its like saying a black belt in martial arts can only fight well when his students are nearby. Its nonsensical and makes solo even more unfavorable. Not only are you fighting solo against a gang your also fighting solo against 25% boosts to everything. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Isaac Apylon As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.12.11 07:33:00 - [29] I really don't understand where this whole 'solo pvp is dead' schtick is coming from. Granted, some of the ways to solo pvp have been nerfed rather badly (here's looking at you, nano nerf), and ECM is always a *****, but there's still plenty of solo opportunities. Go roaming through parts of lowsec that aren't already loltastically blobby, be willing to risk your ship and engage ships in higher classes than yourself, and be willing to occasionally try and score kills off a small gang. Oh look, solo pvp! I'm a pretty crappy pvper, and don't even go looking for fights all that often, but the times I have found good fights reasonably outnumber the times I haven't found a thing/have been blobbed. I went out just the other day in a Merlin and got a great fight with an Ishkur. Died in a fire, took out my Bellicose (yes, I fly them), and got another 3 good fights before I died horribly to a Rupture. All in less than an hour of searching. Just get out there and find the fights! http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.11 08:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Isaac Apylon I really don't understand where this whole 'solo pvp is dead' schtick is coming from. Granted, some of the ways to solo pvp have been nerfed rather badly (here's looking at you, nano nerf), and ECM is always a *****, but there's still plenty of solo opportunities. Go roaming through parts of lowsec that aren't already loltastically blobby, be willing to risk your ship and engage ships in higher classes than yourself, and be willing to occasionally try and score kills off a small gang. Oh look, solo pvp! I'm a pretty crappy pvper, and don't even go looking for fights all that often, but the times I have found good fights reasonably outnumber the times I haven't found a thing/have been blobbed. I went out just the other day in a Merlin and got a great fight with an Ishkur. Died in a fire, took out my Bellicose (yes, I fly them), and got another 3 good fights before I died horribly to a Rupture. All in less than an hour of searching. Just get out there and find the fights! That doesn't really strike me as soloing. Its more get a few kills before suiciding. Frigate pvp is probably the most boring pvp a person can engage in other than blob warfare. There is no risk, no isk loss, nothing that I find enjoyable that I couldn't get faster dropping a can outside Rens trade hub. You have very limited targets you can kill, other frigs and fail fit worthless cruisers It doesn't make me get the mouse shakeys that flying around in 2 billion isk ship does when I engage somebody. 2 billion hurts, it has ramifications, its worthwhile to try to avoid dying. At the same time using a real ship gives the opportunity to take on valuable ships, that drop valuable cargos and cause real damage to your opponent. So I don't consider PvP is alive and well if your idea of PvP is frigate vs frigate, theres no risk to you or your opponent, not possibility of decent loot and losing is a certainty at some point throughout your roam. I consider this form of PvP consensual dueling. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.



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