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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 46 post(s) |

Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
28
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:08:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Jarin Arenos wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Because to be honest the more you guys agree on that the more weight it will have when we talk internally about it. For example right now we are debating if consistency is better then... well better meta descriptors and possibly doing the weapons in a new fashion. So please keep talking about it and let us know what you think. Just please, please, PLEASE don't change my target painters to the new system. They're too awesome to be confined by such a limited scheme! (*goes back to fitting PWNAGE*) Target painters are NOT getting touched. Ever. <3 |

Mac Tir
State War Academy Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
I think the naming order is a little off.
Upgraded (meta level 1) Limited (meta level 2) Experimental (meta level 3) Prototype (meta level 4)......?
The order (in my opinion) should run as follows-
Experimental (meta level 1) Prototype (meta level 2) Limited (meta level 3) Uprgraded (meta level 4)
For example: ''We made some experimental railguns, before deciding on the prototype. We then created a limited run for the Gallente Navy, but have already issued an upgraded model for the discerning capsuleer.''
I know this must seem pathetic but.... it just makes more sense. Why would you call the crappest tier of guns upgraded?
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1833
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:16:00 -
[93] - Quote
I understand why you're doing it, but I don't really like it. I preferred the Light/Heavy/etc nomenclature to Small/Med/...
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Sun Win
Kill It With Fire
47
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:23:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mac Tir wrote:I think the naming order is a little off.
Upgraded (meta level 1) Limited (meta level 2) Experimental (meta level 3) Prototype (meta level 4)......?
The order (in my opinion) should run as follows-
Experimental (meta level 1) Prototype (meta level 2) Limited (meta level 3) Uprgraded (meta level 4)
For example: ''We made some experimental railguns, before deciding on the prototype. We then created a limited run for the Gallente Navy, but have already issued an upgraded model for the discerning capsuleer.''
I know this must seem pathetic but.... it just makes more sense. Why would you call the crappest tier of guns upgraded?
"Well, it doesn't take much know-how to create an Upgraded version of the standard guns, so we've got those created and they're pretty widely available. We've also made a Limited edition that's better, but not really something we want to see on the mass market. I don't know how our Experimental guns are getting out there, they're powerful sure, but not ready for prime time manufacturing. More worrisome are the Prototype weapons that we see the pirate factions using. Those monsters are nearly as good as Tech 2, but with much lower fitting requirements. The capsuleers love them, and buy them whenever they can." |

Ugleb
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
213
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
After 8 years of playing eve I have no idea which laser is which other than you have pulse and beam. Please apply the logic!
Although tbh i will be a little sad when the time comes and scout projectiles cone under the knife. Clarity does matter more than quirky names though.
I Di think that terms such as 'light' and heavy is more interesting than 'small' or 'large' when it comes to turrets. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ |

Fleet Warpsujarento
Caldari's Pride - Factional Warfare Cadet School
149
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:34:00 -
[96] - Quote
It would also be nice if the ECMs were renamed as a priority. With them it's hard to tell which race they jam, never mind their meta level. |

Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:38:00 -
[97] - Quote
D-don't rename my confusing pew pew
"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
313
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:42:00 -
[98] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote: (...) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? This can "take" for as long as you stick to a scale people are already used to. As in, meg, gig and tera. Small, medium and large. Just saying.
Check the capacitor consumption of the lasers. They're all in the gigajoule range. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |

Kasutra
Tailor Company IMPERIAL LEGI0N
61
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:51:00 -
[99] - Quote
Sudelle wrote:I would think from a game lore standpoint that you wouldn't want all meta levels named the same for all 4 empires. no?
As far as Amarr goes, how about some sort of religious descriptor.
Anointed Blessed Holy Exalted
This would be hilarious. Misses the point, but hilarious. Gives a whole new meaning to the word "holy light"... |

Fleet Warpsujarento
Caldari's Pride - Factional Warfare Cadet School
149
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:52:00 -
[100] - Quote
Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:
A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.
So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost, and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out. |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
277
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I understand why you're doing it, but I don't really like it. I preferred the Light/Heavy/etc nomenclature to Small/Med/... -Liang Agreed, I like my mega pulse lasers and mega blaster cannons.
Also wouldn't consistency demand that missiles be changed yet again as their medium sized weapons just went back to both being called heavy?
The following scheme seems for the most part consistent between weapons systems and I'm not sure what would be gained by changing it. Small = Light (medium lasers are the only thing I find potentially confusing) Med = Heavy Large = Mega
Exceptions being caliber named weapons (railguns and projectiles) and large missile types, the former of which can be easily integrated into the aforementioned system and the later probably doesn't need it. |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
315
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:I rather like the gigawat convention, but it should probably be abbreviated. 200mm turrets, 50GW lasers
This is a good suggestion. I also like shorter module names, just didn't think of it at the time of writing the post.
An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |

Sudelle
NoVeL ConCEptS Inc.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 19:59:00 -
[103] - Quote
Kasutra wrote:Sudelle wrote:I would think from a game lore standpoint that you wouldn't want all meta levels named the same for all 4 empires. no?
As far as Amarr goes, how about some sort of religious descriptor.
Anointed Blessed Holy Exalted This would be hilarious. Misses the point, but hilarious. Gives a whole new meaning to the word "holy light"...
That's kind of where I was trying to go with it. Trying to think as a religious zealot that would attempt to, quite literally, burn the sins out of any infidel that would dare oppose them. So name the weapon as the instrument of that wrath... |

Eva Volkova
nXo Intrepid Crossing
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:01:00 -
[104] - Quote
Sudelle wrote: As far as Amarr goes, how about some sort of religious descriptor.
Anointed Blessed Holy Exalted
+1 Best Idea so far.
EvA
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
349

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Posted - 2012.08.14 20:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
Just so you guys don't think I have abandoned this thread I am still here and still reading every response.
Currently debating the meta name problem.
Once we have come to a conclusion on that I should be able to show you the complete Pulse Laser name plan, followed by the Beam Laser plan. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:17:00 -
[106] - Quote
Eva Volkova wrote:Sudelle wrote: As far as Amarr goes, how about some sort of religious descriptor.
Anointed Blessed Holy Exalted
+1 Best Idea so far. Wow, this game must be dying then if that is the best idea so far ffs. Yo |

Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:20:00 -
[107] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:CCP FoxFour In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out. For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injectorHybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me). So this my proposal: Frigate lasersLight 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser) Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser) Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser) Cruiser lasersMedium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser) ... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt) Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser) Battleship lasersLarge 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser) ... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt) Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser) Capital lasersX-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser) After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype) Distinctive features of each turret, such as certain laser turrets having 2 "barrels", can be acknowledged in the description of the module. Edit 1: and before somebody says the gatling pulse only uses 1 GJ per shot, how can it put out 2 GW? Well, 1 GJ over 0.5 seconds (a brief pulse) would be exactly 2 GW. Edit 2: for best market-search results, this naming scheme is even better: "2 Gigawatt Light Pulse Laser". Edit 3: Aamrr suggested to abbreviate the wattage. 50 Gigawatt Pulse Laser becomes 50GW Pulse Laser. I like shorter module names.
i support this proposal with the gigawatt numbers adjusted to roughly match the damage scaling of the weapons. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
315
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:
A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.
So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost (and overlaps with both), and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out.
Actually it makes sense, but to those less familiar with the definition of power and energy it might seem nonsensical.
The capacitor consumption is the amount of energy that goes into a shot. For a Heavy Pulse Laser II with max skills, this is about 5 gigajoule before any crystals.
This energy is converted into light and projected onto the target in a few short pulses. Some of the energy is lost during the conversion process. Let's assume 1/5 is lost .
I suggested the Heavy Pulse Laser to be called Medium 20GW Pulse Laser.
The 20GW number matches perfectly if we pretend that the laser expends its 4 GJ in a series a series of short pulses that last 0.2 seconds in total. The pulses are effectively 20GW laser beams.
An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |

Satea Marsh
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:25:00 -
[109] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:gigawatts/plasma I think you guys want this just so you can do the Terminator quote. |

Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:
A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.
So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost (and overlaps with both), and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out.
actually it works fine... better skills = you are able to tweak your lasers to more efficiently convert capacitor into laser output. so the only constraint is that the wattage number cannot exceed their lowest capacitor consumption numbers divided by their fastest possible cycle time. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |

Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:
A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.
So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost (and overlaps with both), and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out. Actually it makes sense, but to those less familiar with the definition of power and energy it might seem nonsensical. The capacitor consumption is the amount of energy that goes into a shot. For a Heavy Pulse Laser II with max skills, this is about 5 gigajoule before any crystals. This energy is converted into light and projected onto the target in a few short pulses. Some of the energy is lost during the conversion process. Let's assume 1/5 is lost . I suggested the Heavy Pulse Laser to be called Medium 20GW Pulse Laser. The 20GW number matches perfectly if we pretend that the laser expends its remaining 4 GJ in a series a series of short pulses that last 0.2 seconds in total. The pulses are effectively 20GW laser beams. After that, the laser pauses for a moment to dissipate heat (the energy that was converted into heat instead of light). Disclaimer: I'm no physicist or engineer. They could probably explain it better.
that is a perfectly serviceable explanation.
If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |

Fleet Warpsujarento
Caldari's Pride - Factional Warfare Cadet School
149
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:32:00 -
[112] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:
A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.
So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost (and overlaps with both), and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out. Actually it makes sense, but to those less familiar with the definition of power and energy it might seem nonsensical. The capacitor consumption is the amount of energy that goes into a shot. For a Heavy Pulse Laser II with max skills, this is about 5 gigajoule before any crystals. This energy is converted into light and projected onto the target in a few short pulses. Some of the energy is lost during the conversion process. Let's assume 1/5 is lost . I suggested the Heavy Pulse Laser to be called Medium 20GW Pulse Laser. The 20GW number matches perfectly if we pretend that the laser expends its remaining 4 GJ in a series a series of short pulses that last 0.2 seconds in total. The pulses are effectively 20GW laser beams. After that, the laser pauses for a moment to dissipate heat (the energy that was converted into heat instead of light). Disclaimer: I'm no physicist or engineer. They could probably explain it better.
Oh I've no doubt you could get as high a figure as you want for power. The problem is that it will vary too much between ships and fits for it to actually mean anything.
Take the base laser, no skills, fitted to a ship with no bonuses and no rigs. Give its power use a value of 1.
Take a ship optimised for cap use, and put the same laser on it. What's its value? -Amarr ship bonus gives you 10% per level to cap use, so that's an 0.5x multiplier on cap use. -Dual Discharge Elutriation II reduces cap use by about 40%, so that's a multiplier of 0.6x -Controlled Bursts gives a bonus of 5% per level, so that's an 0.75x multiplier.
If you take peak laser efficiency as your means of determining the name given to the module, then your 20GW laser ends up using a base of almost 90GW, so the name won't bear any relation to the actual stats of the module. That's my real problem with it. |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:43:00 -
[113] - Quote
This is the final wattage naming suggestion.
1) An explanation on how the numbers I proposed were obtained
I looked at the energy cost per shot of all tech 1 pulse lasers with max skills and no crystals loaded.
Gatling Pulse Laser I: 1.3 GJ Dual Light Pulse Laser I: 2 GJ Medium Pulse Laser I: 3.3 GJ
Focused Medium Pulse Laser I: 6 GJ Heavy Pulse Laser I: 10 GJ
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser I: 18.75 GJ Mega Pulse Laser I: 30 GJ
Dual Giga Pulse Laser I: 240 GJ
With this I get an idea on what kind of scale these are operating at and roughly how they differ in power. Since this is a game we have some artistic freedom and we can go with pretty numbers that follow a clear progression, as long as they are reasonable.
2) Taking into account the feedback by other players, I have modified the original proposal slightly:
Frigate lasers Small 2GW Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser) Small 3GW Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser) Small 4GWPulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)
Cruiser lasers Medium 10GW Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser) ... (if it existed, this laser would be 15GW) Medium 20GW Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)
Battleship lasers Large 50GW Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser) ... (if it existed, this laser would be 75GW) Large 100GW Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)
Capital lasers Capital 500GW Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser) An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:44:00 -
[114] - Quote
And here are beam laser names. Note that their wattage should be lower despite higher energy costs as they maintain a lower energy beam for longer compared to pulse lasers. :
Small 1GW Beam Laser (formerly Dual Light Beam Laser) Small 2GW Beam Laser (formerly Medium Beam Laser)
Medium 3GW Beam Laser (formerly Quad Light Beam Laser. This one has actually lower cap consumption than the Medium Beam Laser, but not giving it a higher wattage seems wrong) Medium 4GW Beam Laser (formerly Focused Medium Beam Laser) Medium 8GW Beam Laser (formerly Heavy Beam Laser)
Large 16GW Beam Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Beam Laser) Large 24GW Beam Laser (formerly Mega Beam Laser) Large 36GW Beam Laser (formerly Tachyon Beam Laser)
An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:44:00 -
[115] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:nitpicking
This is still a game and we don't have to concern ourselves with simulating everything accurately. If we did, we should rightfully throw the whole idea of skills reducing cap usage out. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |

Fleet Warpsujarento
Caldari's Pride - Factional Warfare Cadet School
149
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:47:00 -
[116] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:nitpicking This is still a game and we don't have to concern ourselves with simulating everything accurately. If we did, we should rightfully throw the whole idea of skills reducing cap usage out.
I just don't understand why a gun that doesn't use 20GW of powergrid, and doesn't use 20GJ from the capacitor per second should be called a 20GW laser. |

CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
142
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:50:00 -
[117] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:And here are beam laser names. Note that their wattage should be lower despite higher energy costs as they maintain a lower energy beam for longer compared to pulse lasers. :
Small 1GW Beam Laser (formerly Dual Light Beam Laser) Small 2GW Beam Laser (formerly Medium Beam Laser)
Medium 3GW Beam Laser (formerly Quad Light Beam Laser. This one has actually lower cap consumption than the Medium Beam Laser, but not giving it a higher wattage seems wrong) Medium 4GW Beam Laser (formerly Focused Medium Beam Laser) Medium 8GW Beam Laser (formerly Heavy Beam Laser)
Large 16GW Beam Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Beam Laser) Large 24GW Beam Laser (formerly Mega Beam Laser) Large 36GW Beam Laser (formerly Tachyon Beam Laser)
I like these. Granted, the OCD in me wants to round to '0's and '5's, but, hell, that's nothing. It certainly would help with quantifying the lasers (like the calibers on projectile turrets). Not to mention, from there, you could also get the nice, zealous names posted earlier. Then we know exactly how much power we're melting face with when dealing with heretics. |

Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
32
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Posted - 2012.08.14 22:43:00 -
[118] - Quote
One how is this thread not stickyed yet?
I'm kinda in favor of the Gigawatt idea, especially the shorter GW. 2 GW, 5 GW ....
Keep Gatling.
Dual is fine, think those turrets actually have 2 lasers on one turret.
Focused needs to be something that sounds more destructive, agreed. Amplified, Magnified, Augmented, Devouring, Afflicting...
I think Light, Medium, Heavy, or Light, Heavy, Mega, Capital is better and more interesting than small, medium, large.
Keep Tachyon.
I think for Meta naming conventions, I agree there should be more than one set of names so all of EVE is not upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype. I think you could consider 3 sets, one for high slots, mediums slots and low slot modules. Highslot modules should focus on the increased damage and aggressive aspects of the modules. Midslots to the boosting or harassing nature of the modules. Lowslots on the mostly passive reinforcing nature of modules.
Also since I've been playing for a while now, I like my flavor in my names. I'm not against name changes that make EVE more usable but there should be some flavor. It could be what exists now, or adding in corporate/family names, or new racial variants. If the flavor name exists across 2 types of items it should be on the same meta level.
I agree with the poster above quoting Machiavelli, you should probably open up a bunch of threads like these, for all the modules and things you want to fix, take 3-6 months to gather input. Then take the time you need to build in the changes to release all at once. If POSes, Ship Balancing, Sov Warfare, FW and Incarna, can be slowed down and attempted to be fixed once well I don't see why you wouldn't do the same for naming. Unless you know people are quitting EVE because of naming conventions... which did you want them in the game anyway? |

Tragedy
The Creepshow
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:56:00 -
[119] - Quote
I dont care as long as you dont name every module in the game limited experimental protocrap I'm happy.
edit: definetely keep tachyon. |

Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 23:22:00 -
[120] - Quote
First off: I want the names to stay as they are. This is not me trying to bittervet "i learned it, make everyone else learn it too" all over the situation. It helps the feel of the thing. Why does modal sometimes mean m2 and sometimes m4? Because one developer was Galente and the other Matari. So they used their words differently.
Second: If "limited" is better than "upgraded" you've done "intuitive" wrong. |
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