Spriral sounds weird, but other than that, more logic in naming conventions is great. I always thought that whoever came up with these names did it to confuse new players :/

What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah.

What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah.

Its better then spinning

Can't be anything like faint becouse that would sound like they are the worst ones.

On with the name suggestions.

Foxfour do you have a list of names that content thinks would work so we can vote?

Modualted vs modulated (text)
Spriral vs spiral (sheet)

those ain't real words.

Even if it was 'spiral' it would be a pretty poor choice.

Also, when can we finally include pictures on forums ?

To be honest, I never understood lasers well with their 3 categories instead of 2 like the rest. So basically anything will be an improvement for me.

I don't think anyone has any qualms about fixing everything to fit one naming scheme. When prop mods and shield hardeners changed, it was a slight annoyance for like 30 minutes then it was just as good as always. One thing to keep in mind is making stuff easy to search for on the market though. Like when I'm fitting up a Drake (for example) and I want 3 kinds of hardeners, its nice to be able to type "field ii" and they all pop up. making it (prefix) Electron Blaster II or whatever would be p cool just because that would make navigating the market in general easier.

We then have (not looking at faction) 5 basic versions of those:
Blaster I
Anode Particle Cannon I
Limited Blaster I
Modal Particle Accelerator I
Regulated Phase Cannon I
Blaster II

I think the other one on the list was Strobe...

Erm, you must be a real programmer. Off-by-one error detected. (6 versions, right?)

"Modualted" is an obvious typo (modulated).

"Spriral" looks like a typo, but it appears many times so perhaps it is a mis-comprehension on the part of the author and should be "spiral". I agree with others that even as "spiral" it is somewhat awkward. A modest suggestion: "polarized".

I admire your gumption FoxFour; attacking the laser naming morass takes spunk.

MDD

As someone actually writing a fitting tool (aka, I will get issues with this in pyfa):

I like it.

However, wouldn't it be better to do everything in one big swoop ? That'd mean we (=app developpers / KB maintainers / etc.) get to deal with **** once and then get it over with instead of having to do it every expansion again and again when another set of modules gets renamed.

In this case the nice thing is if you search for "pulse i" or "pulse ii" you will get all pulse lasers. They won't be filtered by size in this case, but yes.

Kinda makes me want to put "i" on the end of all the faction/officer/storyline weapons...

I still think "limited" is kind of a silly name if the idea is to imply that it's better. When I was picking blasters for a frigate once, I chose Limited blasters, and because of the name coupled with the decreased PG/CPU requirements, I assumed they were weaker.

...Actually, all the new names make them sound unstable/untested/less-good. I vote we use Upgraded, Overcharged (or Extended in the case of projectiles), Enhanced, and Bespoke.

Other than that all good :)

Keep it likes this?

oh, and on a side note (hold your breath, NDA breach incoming):

dust uses advanced and prototype as names for for higher level weapons, would be awesome if there was at least some consistency between the two games in that regard

I REALLY dislike the UPgraded, Limited, blah, blah. I REALLY dislike it a LOT.

The reason is because then EVERYTHING sounds the same for meta level, and it really strips the soul out of it all. As well the naming scheme is REALLY unhelpful in every way to designate anything in terms of superiority. Yes, I understand that sometimes it can get sometimes overly complicated, but for each weapon type let them stand out and be a bit unique. I do agree that some of the Modal's confuse across the various types of weapons and those things should be addressed.

SO, please, please, please do not use the Upgraded, Limited, Prototype scheme for the weapon hardpoints. I'm really tired of seeing this scheme used.

Rename all the "Medium Pulse Lasers" to "Small Pulse Lasers" so people know they're not MEDIUM sized weapons (Which was super dumb). And make those necessary adjustments. Tweak some of the weapon meta types such as 'Scout' railguns and 'Scout' autocannons being the same meta type, or so on.

If you want to add a meta descriptor to stuff, reconsider using the 'I' at the end of all the modules and put a meta number, i.e.
Dual Afocal Pulse Laser M1
Dual Modal Pulse Laser M2
Dual Anode Pulse Paricle Stream M3
etc

Thanks for listening.

So you think that the current names "strip the soul out of it all" and you advocate the alternate naming convention of naming them all the same and slapping a number on the end?

Yep, using watts or something like it makes a lot of sense.

CCP FoxFour

In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out.

For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injector

Hybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me).

So this my proposal:

Frigate lasers
Light 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser)
Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser)
Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)

Cruiser lasers
Medium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt)
Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)

Battleship lasers
Large 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt)
Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)

Capital lasers
X-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser)

After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype)

CCP FoxFour

In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out.

For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injector

Hybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me).

So this my proposal:

Frigate lasers
Light 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser)
Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser)
Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)

Cruiser lasers
Medium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt)
Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)

Battleship lasers
Large 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt)
Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)

Capital lasers
X-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser)

After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype)

Distinctive features of each turret, such as certain laser turrets having 2 "barrels", can be acknowledged in the description of the module.

Capacitors are charged in like Giga Joules or some such **** so naming them by Watts would A. Lead to boring as all hell names and B. Quite on the contrary, it would make no sense whatsoever seeing as Watts measure power and joules measure energy, I think ou lost a t somewhere in that naming convention of yours.

Eh?

The new meta descriptors are bad.

Upgraded, Limited, Prototype are totally useless in relationship to each other to help it make more sense. I agree some of the obviously complicated things should be undone, but using the meta naming scheme they have is really awful as a step forward. As well, they really start to take some of the charm of the various modules away from them. Yes, it takes some time to learn it, but the real issue isn't the name of the descriptor, it's the fact that you call them all "T1" via the "I" designator, when really they're meta equipment. Instead of renaming everything with this bad scheme, just stick M1 or something like that and that resolves the superiority descriptor issue.

The meta # description is mostly just a compromise to the fact that the 'I' is a deception. They aren't really "T1", They're meta gear. And calling them T1 is a misnomer.

The proposed names in the list looks pretty common sensical to me. THe only thing that doesn't seem to fit, at least for me, is the proposed names for the 'focused' type. Currently they are a medium small weapon. A more powerful version of smalls, if you will. Right? But the proposed name does not indicate that. Albeit medium as it is currently can be confusing especially since there is a medium size for cruisers/bc's.

As for a suggest clarifying change to what is proposed I have no answer yet.

T1 gear is gear that isn't Meta 5+. You are confusing T1 and Meta 1. Refer above where i said you can ***** all day about what names FoxFour and them choose, or you can just look at them for 2 seconds and remember that Anode=Meta X. In short I wasn't saying it was a **** idea because you wanted the meta level to be more obvious, its a **** idea because you want the difference between every mod of similar types to be a number trailing it. Also under your bad system Tech 2 stuff would now be Meta 5 stuff because now T2 could mean Meta 2 or Tech 2 or maybe if you keep posting it could mean bad idea number 2.

Before I go into the details of what I am thinking I want to make a few things clear:

1) There is a reason for what I am doing. I am not doing this just to annoy people who run killboards.

So to be honest chances are we are not going to be changing the whole Upgraded, Limited, Experimental, Prototype thing. First because doing that would mean doing it to all modules in the game using that system, and two because it is already miles ahead of where we were before. I am not trying to use the excuse "well it's better then it was" to end this, but changing them all is just not an option at this point and creating a new system, even if better, would only lead to fragmentation again.

Once we are at a point where things are consistent across the board and everything that needs to is using the Upgraded, Limited, Experimental, Prototype convention, we can talk about changing that.

I'm with Harri on this one. The naming convention for the meta level descriptor seems to have been a bunch of laser-related words that were selected at random and tossed in. What is proposed is dramatically improved. However, "focused" seems a weak word. Overcharged? Amplified? I don't know. Something that sounds more... destructive.

Capacitors are charged in like Giga Joules or some such **** so naming them by Watts would A. Lead to boring as all hell names and B. Quite on the contrary, it would make no sense whatsoever seeing as Watts measure power and joules measure energy, I think ou lost a t somewhere in that naming convention of yours.

I like the standardization efforts. You might consider coming up with a word for the weapon type that also connotes its size. The listed names in your example are getting cumbersomely long.

An example, not directly from eve, something like:
Gun = small
Rifle = medium
Cannon = large

Long = Long range
Short = short range
Mid = mid range

You could end up with something like: Short Gun I, Long Gun I, Short Gun IV, Long Gun IV, Short Gun V (t2), etc. You can throw in one more word for the type: Short Laser Gun I, etc. You can condense it even further by turning size into part of the meta number: Laser Gun SR-1, Laser Gun LR-1.

Just some thoughts. Love to see you guys working on the details. Esp. ones that hide meaning and clarity from noobs.

So to be honest chances are we are not going to be changing the whole Upgraded, Limited, Experimental, Prototype thing. First because doing that would mean doing it to all modules in the game using that system, and two because it is already miles ahead of where we were before. I am not trying to use the excuse "well it's better then it was" to end this, but changing them all is just not an option at this point and creating a new system, even if better, would only lead to fragmentation again.

Once we are at a point where things are consistent across the board and everything that needs to is using the Upgraded, Limited, Experimental, Prototype convention, we can talk about changing that.

I'm with Harri on this one. The naming convention for the meta level descriptor seems to have been a bunch of laser-related words that were selected at random and tossed in. What is proposed is dramatically improved. However, "focused" seems a weak word. Overcharged? Amplified? I don't know. Something that sounds more... destructive.

I like the standardization efforts. You might consider coming up with a word for the weapon type that also connotes its size. The listed names in your example are getting cumbersomely long.

An example, not directly from eve, something like:
Gun = small
Rifle = medium
Cannon = large

Long = Long range
Short = short range
Mid = mid range

You could end up with something like: Short Gun I, Long Gun I, Short Gun IV, Long Gun IV, Short Gun V (t2), etc. You can throw in one more word for the type: Short Laser Gun I, etc. You can condense it even further by turning size into part of the meta number: Laser Gun SR-1, Laser Gun LR-1.

Just some thoughts. Love to see you guys working on the details. Esp. ones that hide meaning and clarity from noobs.

With all due respect, then what are you looking an opinion on? Because looks like you're just testing how much blow back there will be and a lot less concerned about input on the naming schemes.

Also, as you did on the missile platforms you kept the "flavor" text.

Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher I.

So, it's not like you haven't already messed with your own scheme by incorporating the more interesting old designators as compromises to the situation. You've acknowledged by your own actions that the lack of interesting designators is a negative step and done design compromises to work with it even when it blatantly broke the schemes simplicity.

welcome to the world of 2 edged swords

it is not a bad idea, but it could lure people (especially new players) into only using the ones with the biggest number. giving away a hint towards usage in the name is a pretty good idea, therefore gatling (strobe !) and focused are actually usefull, not 100% sure about dual. might have to rethink about that.

Because to be honest the more you guys agree on that the more weight it will have when we talk internally about it. For example right now we are debating if consistency is better then... well better meta descriptors and possibly doing the weapons in a new fashion. So please keep talking about it and let us know what you think.

While we are discussing metas, can we change the meta of prop mods so that they are all the same names for the highest existing meta? Its not a big deal, but its an annoyance every time I have to search the market for a prop mod

Ie, the best meta frig mwd is limited, but for 10mn sizes, its experimental, and for 100mn its prototype.

FoxFour, what if meta number was added to item icons? :) + your suggested name changes? no one would ever be in doubt about what is better than what...?

The new module names (limited, experimental, prototype) still make no sense to me as far as explaining how one is slightly better than the other. Please explain to me how a new or old player should know that a limited item has better stats than an experimental item?

I find myself searching the attibutes page looking for the meta level more now than ever before

If you really want to make this simple for us to understand and stop trying to confuse us with each new expansion go with something simple.

Meta 1 - Small Pulse Laser
Meta 2 - Medium Pulse Laser
Meta 5 - Large Pulse Laser
Meta 1 - 10mn Afterburner
Meta 6 - 100mn Microwarp Drive

so on and so on.

Because to be honest the more you guys agree on that the more weight it will have when we talk internally about it. For example right now we are debating if consistency is better then... well better meta descriptors and possibly doing the weapons in a new fashion. So please keep talking about it and let us know what you think.

FoxFour, what if meta number was added to item icons? :) + your suggested name changes? no one would ever be in doubt about what is better than what...?

Just please, please, PLEASE don't change my target painters to the new system. They're too awesome to be confined by such a limited scheme! (*goes back to fitting PWNAGE*)

Because to be honest the more you guys agree on that the more weight it will have when we talk internally about it. For example right now we are debating if consistency is better then... well better meta descriptors and possibly doing the weapons in a new fashion. So please keep talking about it and let us know what you think.

and fix the goddamn "limited" it sounds like "this is a bad thing, dont use it !!"

Also, I believe that the $size should always be the first item on the name, which would also make for sorting on the inventory and market for better and simpler distinction betweet weapons (and other modules):

• Small Gatling Pulse Laser I
• Small Experimental Gatling Pulse Laser I
• Small Limited Gatling Pulse Laser I
• Small Prototype Gatling Pulse Laser I
• Small Upgraded Gatling Pulse Laser I
• Small Gatling Pulse Laser II

(...) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name?

Target painters are NOT getting touched. Ever.

2. It should be as short as possible.

No, it should be as 'realistic' as possible. Eve is a massive universe and the idea that there should be only 5 or so simple types of standard-issue blasters all conforming to a similar naming scheme is ridiculous. I thought it was cool the way everything had really long, complicated names in which they sometimes used forgotten, archaic words because it emitted the feeling of a large world with many types of weaponry created by many types of corporations, which is the way it should be. Dumbing it down like this reminds me of the transition from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim where Bethesda has kept dumbing it down and making less and less types of weaponry and using simpler names. It is wrong.

What they should be doing is creating and adding more types of weaponry, more types of ships, and more ship customization. That should be the goal. Why would you even think about changing the names so they are simpler? Who actually cares about that?

Then put the size in front of it. So you would have

Frigates would have:
Small Banishing Laser I
Small Anointed Banishing Laser I

Cruisers would have:
Medium Banishing Laser I
Medium Exalted Banishing Laser I

Target painters are NOT getting touched. Ever.

...

I think the naming order is a little off.

Upgraded (meta level 1)
Limited (meta level 2)
Experimental (meta level 3)
Prototype (meta level 4)......?

The order (in my opinion) should run as follows-

Experimental (meta level 1)
Prototype (meta level 2)
Limited (meta level 3)
Uprgraded (meta level 4)

For example: ''We made some experimental railguns, before deciding on the prototype. We then created a limited run for the Gallente Navy, but have already issued an upgraded model for the discerning capsuleer.''


I know this must seem pathetic but.... it just makes more sense. Why would you call the crappest tier of guns upgraded?

This can "take" for as long as you stick to a scale people are already used to. As in, meg, gig and tera. Small, medium and large.

Just saying.

I would think from a game lore standpoint that you wouldn't want all meta levels named the same for all 4 empires. no?

As far as Amarr goes, how about some sort of religious descriptor.

Anointed
Blessed
Holy
Exalted

I understand why you're doing it, but I don't really like it. I preferred the Light/Heavy/etc nomenclature to Small/Med/...

-Liang

I rather like the gigawat convention, but it should probably be abbreviated. 200mm turrets, 50GW lasers

This would be hilarious. Misses the point, but hilarious. Gives a whole new meaning to the word "holy light"...

As far as Amarr goes, how about some sort of religious descriptor.

Anointed
Blessed
Holy
Exalted

+1 Best Idea so far.

CCP FoxFour

In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out.

For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injector

Hybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me).

So this my proposal:

Frigate lasers
Light 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser)
Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser)
Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)

Cruiser lasers
Medium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt)
Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)

Battleship lasers
Large 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt)
Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)

Capital lasers
X-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser)

After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype)

Distinctive features of each turret, such as certain laser turrets having 2 "barrels", can be acknowledged in the description of the module.


Edit 1: and before somebody says the gatling pulse only uses 1 GJ per shot, how can it put out 2 GW? Well, 1 GJ over 0.5 seconds (a brief pulse) would be exactly 2 GW.

Edit 2: for best market-search results, this naming scheme is even better: "2 Gigawatt Light Pulse Laser".

Edit 3: Aamrr suggested to abbreviate the wattage. 50 Gigawatt Pulse Laser becomes 50GW Pulse Laser. I like shorter module names.

Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:

A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts
B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts
C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.

So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost (and overlaps with both), and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out.

gigawatts/plasma

Naming lasers after their power (Megawatt, Gigawatt, Terawatt etc) isn't a great idea give that:

A) They already have a power grid usage measured in Megawatts
B)They already have a a Cap consumption value, measured in Gigawatts
C) Their use of both cap and PG changes as skills and rigs are applied.

So you end up with a situation where a Laser's name corresponds to neither its power usage nor its energy cost (and overlaps with both), and doesn't scale with the damage it puts out.

Actually it makes sense, but to those less familiar with the definition of power and energy it might seem nonsensical.

The capacitor consumption is the amount of energy that goes into a shot. For a Heavy Pulse Laser II with max skills, this is about 5 gigajoule before any crystals.

This energy is converted into light and projected onto the target in a few short pulses. Some of the energy is lost during the conversion process. Let's assume 1/5 is lost .

I suggested the Heavy Pulse Laser to be called Medium 20GW Pulse Laser.

The 20GW number matches perfectly if we pretend that the laser expends its remaining 4 GJ in a series a series of short pulses that last 0.2 seconds in total. The pulses are effectively 20GW laser beams. After that, the laser pauses for a moment to dissipate heat (the energy that was converted into heat instead of light).

Disclaimer: I'm no physicist or engineer. They could probably explain it better.

Actually it makes sense, but to those less familiar with the definition of power and energy it might seem nonsensical.

The capacitor consumption is the amount of energy that goes into a shot. For a Heavy Pulse Laser II with max skills, this is about 5 gigajoule before any crystals.

This energy is converted into light and projected onto the target in a few short pulses. Some of the energy is lost during the conversion process. Let's assume 1/5 is lost .

I suggested the Heavy Pulse Laser to be called Medium 20GW Pulse Laser.

The 20GW number matches perfectly if we pretend that the laser expends its remaining 4 GJ in a series a series of short pulses that last 0.2 seconds in total. The pulses are effectively 20GW laser beams. After that, the laser pauses for a moment to dissipate heat (the energy that was converted into heat instead of light).

Disclaimer: I'm no physicist or engineer. They could probably explain it better.

nitpicking

This is still a game and we don't have to concern ourselves with simulating everything accurately. If we did, we should rightfully throw the whole idea of skills reducing cap usage out.

And here are beam laser names. Note that their wattage should be lower despite higher energy costs as they maintain a lower energy beam for longer compared to pulse lasers. :

Small 1GW Beam Laser (formerly Dual Light Beam Laser)
Small 2GW Beam Laser (formerly Medium Beam Laser)

Medium 3GW Beam Laser (formerly Quad Light Beam Laser. This one has actually lower cap consumption than the Medium Beam Laser, but not giving it a higher wattage seems wrong)
Medium 4GW Beam Laser (formerly Focused Medium Beam Laser)
Medium 8GW Beam Laser (formerly Heavy Beam Laser)

Large 16GW Beam Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Beam Laser)
Large 24GW Beam Laser (formerly Mega Beam Laser)
Large 36GW Beam Laser (formerly Tachyon Beam Laser)

I dont care as long as you dont name every module in the game limited experimental protocrap I'm happy.


edit: definetely keep tachyon.

/votes CCP FoxFour for Empress of Amarr

Laser names have been wonky for AGES

"Small" armor repairer, "Small" Nosferatu, "Medium" lasers ???

THANK YOU!

CCP FoxFour

1. Maybe, set meta-level as number directly in name (as it was with mining upgrade)

Not sure what you mean by this. The mining laser upgrades currently look as so:
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Erin Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 1)
Elara Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 2)
Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 3)
Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 4)
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Wasn't there already a thread on renaming lasers???

Modal used in different places to mean different things ('Scout' worked in a similar way between railguns and atrillery) is something I'd prefer to retain personally - although with the continued unification of all naming conventions everywhere the reasoning looks less and less sound.


[Edit] Yep...
here...
[/edit]

Barging in a bit late into the discussion; while I'd like for module names to "make sense" I wouldn't want to lose the coolness of having different names. Having every meta turret have the same base name makes things too homogeneous, too bland&boring. Lasers should have something "lasery" in their name and projectiles should have a "weaponsmithy" nomenclature. While making everything on par and viable (balance wise) makes good sense, making everything the same does not. Same goes for the names.

Ytterblum could probably tell you all about laser types (even though he spelled it wrong :P) but have a look here for some inspiration.

p.s. I'm no fan of adding meta into the name itself, the names would get too long (or you'd have to leave out the fun part of the name and just make it boring) and it would feel too spreadsheet-like. Being able to sort the variations, market etc on meta lvl would suffice.

If you want to make meta levels clear, just add them to the name as a version number, excluding T2 and faction. So, Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I.4; Experimental 1MN Afterburner I.3

........

EDIT: !!! - right, that AB is the old Cold Gas AB. Back when it was named Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters, I used to always know that what I wanted if I wanted a small AB was the cold-gas one. Now that it's has this 'helpful' name, I don't regard it as having a name at all, and just go straight to the meta level.

While we're on the subject of weapon naming, how about removing the word "Artillery" from some of the Autocannon names?

That suggestion is perfect IMHO for Meta resolution.

So, using various suggestions I've seen so far, alternate schemes :

Light Pulse Laser I
Anode Light Pulse Laser I.1
Modal Light Pulse Laser I.2
Afocal Light Pulse Laser I.3
Modulated Light Pulse Laser I.4
Light Pulse Laser II


Clean, simple, module name is placed at end, so you can search "Light Pulse Laser" and get all meta types, if you want all T1s you can just do 'Light Pulse Laser I.', if you want T2, you just put 'II' at the end.

I think changing the anode, modal, etc is fine as long as you replace them with something better, more consistent or cooler.

If you insist on using the new conventions, then you can still wrap it in (I left flavor designators in this case)

Light Pulse Laser I
Upgraded Anode Light Pulse Laser I.1
Limited Modal Light Pulse Laser I.2
Experimental Afocal Light Pulse Laser I.3
Prototype Modulated Light Pulse Laser I.4
Light Pulse Laser II

I find that a bit of an eyeful to really enjoy. But, I think it's pretty sexy still.

There may be a better way than just I.1, but it's a step in the right direction.


And, I agree. When you start using the "Upgraded" designators alone, it basically doesn't have a name anymore.

If we, and I stress the if as this is just rambling, what about I think I prefer:
I.I
I.II
I.III
I.IV

Just keeping with how we tend to do things.

Decimal Roman numerals? I now think I've seen it all.

Versus the previous recommendation of roman numerals mixed with numbers? i kinda figured that made more sense? I will admit I don't know the roman numeral system that well so if there is a better way to do that let me know.

Since meta level is available as a separate column I don't think we need to clutter the item name with it. Meta levels 1 to 3 are usually trash anyway and not a big concern. I'd like to see the "I" tech level indicator go away as well.

Maybe: [meta name] '[decorative name]' [size] [item type]

So we get: Upgraded 'Anode' Light Pulse Laser

The meta name provides an indication of the level of the item, we keep some storyline 'color' in the name and the final part is together to allow for searching. By using a common meta indicator with a name unique to a line of equipment you keep the best of both worlds without it becoming too long.

Light Pulse Laser I
Upgraded 'Anode' Light Pulse Laser
Limited 'Modal' Light Pulse Laser
Experimental 'Afocal' Light Pulse Laser
Prototype 'Modulated' Light Pulse Laser
Light Pulse Laser II

You could add in a manufacturer name in the Tech II model to add more color. The Tech I indicator could be dropped entirely as well.

Hmmmm thank you for that. I see where you are coming from and agree on several points. I should hopefully have an updated idea in the next couple of days.

Its tough to be as simple as possible, while being informative and also not making everything generic and bland. Good luck.

Do we need the word Laser after all the weapons? The other guns don't use "hybrid turret" or "projectile turret" at the end.

So you would have a :

Upgraded 5GW Light Dual Beam I
Small Anointed Smiting Pulse I
Limited 'Anode' Light Dual Beam I

depending on the naming convention you go with...

Seriously though FoxFour, why are you doing it one weapons system at a time rather than all at once? Wouldn't it be better to save them up and do them all at once to get it over with? It's not like it's urgent. The game has done mostly fine for almost a decade with the current names, after all.

"Limited" may have been a bad choice, since it appears to be widely interpreted in its negative meaning rather than the "Limited Edition" connotation I was going for.

CCP Foxfour, can you have a chat with CCP Gnauton (if he's still about) about the meta name system please? Especially about the use of the word "Limited".

When he was soliticting feedback about the new meta system it was pointed out by lots of people that Limited actually carried quite negative connotations and CCP Gnauton himself agreed, as using "Limited" on it's own didn't convey what he originally meant:


I would very much like to see "Limited" be changed into something more representing an improvement, rather that the current insinuation that it's a worse item.

As for the laser naming, I too support Rees Noturana's "[meta name] '[decorative name]' [size] [item type]" system of keeping it simple and concise while retaining the flavour, very similar to the missile system. Flavour is important.

Also, I'm glad that CCP and you in particular are giving serious time to the names again

You will be happy to know that the only reason I have not posted my full list of name changes for Pulse Lasers is because we are internally discussing the meta name issue. I am trying to come up with something better than the current names.

Specifically I would like the names to seem increasing in awesome, but also be alphabetical. :P

[You will be happy to know that the only reason I have not posted my full list of name changes for Pulse Lasers is because we are internally discussing the meta name issue. I am trying to come up with something better than the current names.
Specifically I would like the names to seem increasing in awesome, but also be alphabetical. :P

*high five*

You will be happy to know that the only reason I have not posted my full list of name changes for Pulse Lasers is because we are internally discussing the meta name issue. I am trying to come up with something better than the current names. Specifically I would like the names to seem increasing in awesome, but also be alphabetical. :P

Considering that Eve is available in more than one language, such a list of names seems closely related to Unobtanium.

MDD

If we, and I stress the if as this is just rambling, what about I think I prefer:
I.I
I.II
I.III
I.IV

Just keeping with how we tend to do things.

An alternate attack would be to ask the UI folks to add "order by meta level" to their repertoire.

MDD

Since meta level is available as a separate column I don't think we need to clutter the item name with it. Meta levels 1 to 3 are usually trash anyway and not a big concern. I'd like to see the "I" tech level indicator go away as well.

Maybe: [meta name] '[decorative name]' [size] [item type]

So we get: Upgraded 'Anode' Light Pulse Laser

The meta name provides an indication of the level of the item, we keep some storyline 'color' in the name and the final part is together to allow for searching. By using a common meta indicator with a name unique to a line of equipment you keep the best of both worlds without it becoming too long.

Light Pulse Laser I
Upgraded 'Anode' Light Pulse Laser
Limited 'Modal' Light Pulse Laser
Experimental 'Afocal' Light Pulse Laser
Prototype 'Modulated' Light Pulse Laser
Light Pulse Laser II

You could add in a manufacturer name in the Tech II model to add more color. The Tech I indicator could be dropped entirely as well.

Maybe "Rapid" if "Gatling" isn't preferred since it's a dude's name.

Upgraded (meta level 1)
Limited (meta level 2)
Experimental (meta level 3)
Prototype (meta level 4)

Make dust follow this too!

While we're on the subject of weapon naming, how about removing the word "Artillery" from some of the Autocannon names?

How about instead they use a naming convention already in place that makes some sense. The naming system from learning implants.

Limited
Beta
Basic
Standard
Improved
Advanced
Elite

Obviously here you have more names than are needed for the meta levels, so throw out the ones that seem the most redundant.

Since meta level is available as a separate column I don't think we need to clutter the item name with it. Meta levels 1 to 3 are usually trash anyway and not a big concern. I'd like to see the "I" tech level indicator go away as well.

Maybe: [meta name] '[decorative name]' [size] [item type]

So we get: Upgraded 'Anode' Light Pulse Laser

The meta name provides an indication of the level of the item, we keep some storyline 'color' in the name and the final part is together to allow for searching. By using a common meta indicator with a name unique to a line of equipment you keep the best of both worlds without it becoming too long.

Light Pulse Laser I
Upgraded 'Anode' Light Pulse Laser
Limited 'Modal' Light Pulse Laser
Experimental 'Afocal' Light Pulse Laser
Prototype 'Modulated' Light Pulse Laser
Light Pulse Laser II

You could add in a manufacturer name in the Tech II model to add more color. The Tech I indicator could be dropped entirely as well.

I don't think the names themselves are much of an issue. Let's take for instance the missiles - once you know that the numbered version is meta 3 and that arbalest is meta 4, they're easy to figure out. So as long as you keep your designations across weapon types, there should be an issue.

A far bigger problem comes from the fact that sometimes the name "light" is used for medium weapons or that "medium" is used for small. For instance, let's say I want to fit the Omen. I want medium beam weapons on it, therefore I choose Medium Beam Laser I. Except, in this case, I chose a small weapon, because the name was implying a different size. Instead, if I choose a Quad Light Beam Laser, I would have picked the right weapon size, even though the implied size is small.

Long story short - don't worry about similar meta names being used differently across the board, fix the small, medium and large names and we'll have a quarter of the mess.

And of course, it would help to read the last post before I wrote this :p

EDIT: and a few before that :p



I like this solution. A lot.

I do like changes that make searching for things more logical. Also if the name of said item feels right.

I really don't want to change the topic too much, but I was wondering about the meta levels. Currently the three most used are level 1,4 and 5. Level 1 for dirt cheap option, level 4 for best fitting and level 5 for the best bang so to speak. Level 2 and 3 are, well pointless. Where role do they really have in this game? Granted there is rare cases where a person will opt for a meta 2 or 3, but it seems to only be for a scram, disruptor or web.

That suggestion is perfect IMHO for Meta resolution.

So, using various suggestions I've seen so far, alternate schemes :

Light Pulse Laser I
Anode Light Pulse Laser I.1
Modal Light Pulse Laser I.2
Afocal Light Pulse Laser I.3
Modulated Light Pulse Laser I.4
Light Pulse Laser II


Clean, simple, module name is placed at end, so you can search "Light Pulse Laser" and get all meta types, if you want all T1s you can just do 'Light Pulse Laser I.', if you want T2, you just put 'II' at the end.

I think changing the anode, modal, etc is fine as long as you replace them with something better, more consistent or cooler.

If we, and I stress the if as this is just rambling, what about I think I prefer:
I.I
I.II
I.III
I.IV

Just keeping with how we tend to do things.

I do like changes that make searching for things more logical. Also if the name of said item feels right.

I really don't want to change the topic too much, but I was wondering about the meta levels. Currently the three most used are level 1,4 and 5. Level 1 for dirt cheap option, level 4 for best fitting and level 5 for the best bang so to speak. Level 2 and 3 are, well pointless. Where role do they really have in this game? Granted there is rare cases where a person will opt for a meta 2 or 3, but it seems to only be for a scram, disruptor or web.

Devs trying to fix something that really doesn't need fixing.

The existing naming conventions have been in place for the last 9 years, and for the last 9 years those names have been fine. The last set of changes were bad enough (one of the great things about EVE was some of the 'quirky' naming systems - e.g. Cold-Gas Arcjets, which you are have started systematically destroying).