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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.03 10:31:00 -
[31]
@all
OrangeFlounder = Riseone has started to fight against me as a real person.
everybody who is interested take a look on 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher.
let's see what will happen the next couple of weeks/months
overal situation: advantage Riseone
strategy: advantage leocaldari
break even without costs (this is approxemately 300K/ item)
riseone = 14.000K leocaldari = 13500K
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.03 10:33:00 -
[32]
I forgot that he has now nearly 80 additional items for 14500K
so overal break even should be 14200/14300
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.03 11:37:00 -
[33]
:) I would like to thank Leo for cooperation in 2010. I made nice ~0.5B on you (maybe more, old evetrader database corrupted on me two months ago) after i spotted few patterns. I especially enjoyed short BZ-5 exchange that left me with +200mil. Of course compared to you I am but a small fries. Still, extracting money out of big dogs makes me smile :-)
How to spot Leo trading an item (last few months i think)? look for fake buy orders with min volume >200. He started with 100 but I collapsed few for lolz, after that I just exploited them.
I too suspected ORANGEFLOUNDER to be a bot at first, but then I realized he just doesnt give a poop about profit margins and goes for volume/liquidity (as silly as it sounds).
I dont think ill be as active in 2011 as i was in 2010. Growing from 0 and lended isk for plex in January 2010 up to 40B now burned me out a little bit. I find myself playing warband latelly and logging in to EVE once a week just to update some stuff.
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.03 13:50:00 -
[34]
BTW
I forgot the MOST STUPIEST BOT TRADER in this game I have ever seen
his name was BOTARNT
look on history in 'Arbalest' Standard Missile Launcher.
I got his complete money in 5 days. it was nearly 3 billion ISK.
so far my persoanl record to kill a bot trader.
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OrangeFlounder
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Posted - 2011.01.03 18:18:00 -
[35]
Leo, buddy, the way I trade is just fundamentally different then what you're up to. I can take a loss on Arby Heavys against you and still make ISK. The gap trading is just secondary to keep my feelers out on the market.
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Xia Shianggu
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Posted - 2011.01.04 01:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: OrangeFlounder Leo, buddy, the way I trade is just fundamentally different then what you're up to. I can take a loss on Arby Heavys against you and still make ISK. The gap trading is just secondary to keep my feelers out on the market.
Is this the trader version of "I have two more of that ship, so it doesn't matter that you won that fight"?
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Vested Interest
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Posted - 2011.01.04 01:38:00 -
[37]
I heard someone was trading arbalests at a loss up in this thread. The nerve of some people!
I mean, $hit. I have been trading for 3 years, logged nearly every transaction, and pulled hundreds of billions out of the market and I still couldn't name from memory a single trader I've "gone up against". Market PVP is an MD urban legend. You never know what the other guy's cost basis is. He might have bought the bulk of his stock years ago, on region orders, in nullsec, for all you know.
Shut up and trade.
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 11:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vested Interest I heard someone was trading arbalests at a loss up in this thread. The nerve of some people!
I mean, $hit. I have been trading for 3 years, logged nearly every transaction, and pulled hundreds of billions out of the market and I still couldn't name from memory a single trader I've "gone up against". Market PVP is an MD urban legend. You never know what the other guy's cost basis is. He might have bought the bulk of his stock years ago, on region orders, in nullsec, for all you know.
Shut up and trade.
hahaha.
I know everybody who want to trade the item and I know his entry and exit level.
I'm talking about Jita-Trader.
I'm doing PVP trading all the day and several years now.
but you are right that you think it is a legend. so far I never found a real counterpart who is doing the same. but this does not mean it is not existing.
what I'm doing is not written anywhere in the web. so you can't read anything about it. you have to learn it by yourself.
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 13:18:00 -
[39]
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
inactive items in this market: > 1000
it is evident for success to know how much items are somewhere sitting and waiting to come into the active market
at least 1000 inactive items in this market is pretty high. I would say it is above the critical border to get a good return of investment
heavy Jita Trader: nearly 5 on this side only 1 trader is willing to take more items from market. OranegFlounder is also still collecting items. but it is more an emotional than a logical reason.
personal: I take what I need to have control and to be 100% in profit range
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 13:21:00 -
[40]
TWO of the most important rules for trading
1) time is money 2) profit + loss = ZERO
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.04 13:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: leocaldari profit + loss = ZERO
Can you explain what you mean by this statement? It's not possible to return both a profit and a loss.
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aruchra
Bimasakti Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.04 14:18:00 -
[42]
there's much more wise finding goods to trade than finding bot traders agree ?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.04 15:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: leocaldari TWO of the most important rules for trading
1) time is money 2) profit + loss = ZERO
If by 2) you mean that trading is a zero sum game then that is, frankly, *******s as you point 1) makes clear (well, sort of clear).
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:26:00 -
[44]
Originally by: aruchra there's much more wise finding goods to trade than finding bot traders agree ?
this is not my goal
but I have to fight them down if they are in the same item I want to trade
and to kill a bot trader is always a win(me) - loss(bot) situation
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: leocaldari TWO of the most important rules for trading
1) time is money 2) profit + loss = ZERO
If by 2) you mean that trading is a zero sum game then that is, frankly, *******s as you point 1) makes clear (well, sort of clear).
this is always the summary of the complete market actions
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Horrible Labs SRS.
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:46:00 -
[46]
Trading is a negative sum game due to fees.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.04 17:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: leocaldari
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: leocaldari TWO of the most important rules for trading
1) time is money 2) profit + loss = ZERO
If by 2) you mean that trading is a zero sum game then that is, frankly, *******s as you point 1) makes clear (well, sort of clear).
this is always the summary of the complete market actions
Miner mines ore - sells ore - profits Refiner buys ore - refines - sell minerals - profits Hauler buys minerals - hauls them to Jita - sells minerals - profits Manufacturer buys minerals - builds stuff - sells stuff at discount to Jita sell - profits Trader buys goods below Jita sell - sells goods at Jita sell - profits Pilot buys goods he wants at Jita sell - Loss?
A) the eve market is not a closed system, despite what traders who only think of goods changing hands with other traders may think - it has inputs and outputs.
B) It is possible to add value at various steps in the chain.
C) Potential financial 'loss', such as is incurred by selling at under market vprice can generate a gain in value elsewhere, for instance, in time. Since time is subjectively valued it is impossible to factor it into a neat zerosum closed system model.
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Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming
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Posted - 2011.01.04 17:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: leocaldari
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: leocaldari TWO of the most important rules for trading
1) time is money 2) profit + loss = ZERO
If by 2) you mean that trading is a zero sum game then that is, frankly, *******s as you point 1) makes clear (well, sort of clear).
this is always the summary of the complete market actions
Miner mines ore - sells ore - profits Refiner buys ore - refines - sell minerals - profits Hauler buys minerals - hauls them to Jita - sells minerals - profits Manufacturer buys minerals - builds stuff - sells stuff at discount to Jita sell - profits Trader buys goods below Jita sell - sells goods at Jita sell - profits Pilot buys goods he wants at Jita sell - Loss?
A) the eve market is not a closed system, despite what traders who only think of goods changing hands with other traders may think - it has inputs and outputs.
B) It is possible to add value at various steps in the chain.
C) Potential financial 'loss', such as is incurred by selling at under market vprice can generate a gain in value elsewhere, for instance, in time. Since time is subjectively valued it is impossible to factor it into a neat zerosum closed system model.
Just sum it up by: EvE has larger isk faucets than isk sinks and be done with it. Zero sum? No way.
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 20:06:00 -
[49]
look for
Market Brosef
BUY 7 day order and sell 14 day order
he is jumping immediately after 5 minute delay on first position
not a big count of items but if the range is high short profit within 30 minutes he is new in this bot market system
this could be the acc: look in Medium F-S9 currently 3 orders with 7 days. he just jumped into the market
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.04 20:37:00 -
[50]
nah, look at arbalest standards and todas sudden price spike, dust off your stock and dump it on leos buy orders
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Aureus
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Posted - 2011.01.04 20:48:00 -
[51]
interesting read.
I'm a small timer in the trading game. I have some persistent competition and in one case I know who he is. But it's nothing epic, it's really subdued. Worst though is when I try and come to Jita to trade. Literally every buy or sell order I place is out 0.01 ISK'ed within 2.5 minutes. It's just ridiculous. One day I actually spent the time to try and out 0.01 ISK the person or thing at the other end and I almost 100% consistently updated every 5 minutes for the entire day that I was up and never was there a break. Every 5 minutes I had to modify the order! So I certainly don't do that anymore and I'm starting to lose interest in trading in general.
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 20:49:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Rasz Lin nah, look at arbalest standards and todas sudden price spike, dust off your stock and dump it on leos buy orders
try it my break even is under the market
I took my profit
what is now coming is just fun and still doing my PvP trading
PS: I just gave you some items. have fun
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.04 21:00:00 -
[53]
Originally by: leocaldari
Originally by: Rasz Lin nah, look at arbalest standards and todas sudden price spike, dust off your stock and dump it on leos buy orders
try it my break even is under the market
make more 3.2mil buy orders then :)) I decided to keep the rest just to try and keep the price <3.5mil for as long as i can :)
Originally by: leocaldari
what is now coming is just fun and still doing my PvP trading
PS: I just gave you some items. have fun
I got dissapointed when you stopped :(
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 21:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: leocaldari
Originally by: Rasz Lin nah, look at arbalest standards and todas sudden price spike, dust off your stock and dump it on leos buy orders
try it my break even is under the market
make more 3.2mil buy orders then :)) I decided to keep the rest just to try and keep the price <3.5mil for as long as i can :)
Originally by: leocaldari
what is now coming is just fun and still doing my PvP trading
PS: I just gave you some items. have fun
I got dissapointed when you stopped :(
you have absolut no clue what I'm doing and why. do what you think is the best for you.
I'm always doing things where the profit comes into my pocket. not more not less
I gave you nearly 100 Solace for a good price you got it becuase I read your name so play and make money
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.04 21:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: leocaldari
I gave you nearly 100 Solace for a good price you got it becuase I read your name so play and make money
Im sorry, I didnt realize it was a bribe :P
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leocaldari
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Posted - 2011.01.06 07:30:00 -
[56]
GAME OVER OrangeFlounder/Riseone
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Da Trader
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Posted - 2011.01.06 12:02:00 -
[57]
It is curious that all other supposed bots mentioned by OP haven't showed up. I've met some of them in my trades as well btw
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munitqua
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.06 13:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Aureus interesting read.
I'm a small timer in the trading game. I have some persistent competition and in one case I know who he is. But it's nothing epic, it's really subdued. Worst though is when I try and come to Jita to trade. Literally every buy or sell order I place is out 0.01 ISK'ed within 2.5 minutes. It's just ridiculous. One day I actually spent the time to try and out 0.01 ISK the person or thing at the other end and I almost 100% consistently updated every 5 minutes for the entire day that I was up and never was there a break. Every 5 minutes I had to modify the order! So I certainly don't do that anymore and I'm starting to lose interest in trading in general.
I am in the exact same boat. I love trading, but i will never trade at a station like Jita. I can only log on 2 times a day during the week, and i dont have time for this 0.01 isk bull****. That's why i trade at less crowded places or i do inter region trading.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.01.06 13:37:00 -
[59]
With 1700 orders out I hope they never think I am a bot :P
As for bot traders: when I look at my stats, OrangeFlounder is my number 1 person I buy from in Jita, VERY suspicious.
And seeing the items he is selling, they are from a very WIDE range. Somtimes I come into Jita, buy 10 items at large quantities and look! ALL from OrangeFlouder.
Oracleofjita is at the 2nd place btw, and for him goes exactly the same story. Also sells alot of items, and also is for all items the cheapest when I do a batch buy.
These guys should be looked into... not that they ARE bot traders, but one thing with bot traders: they should be at the top of my buy lists, as are these 2. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Confuzer
Volition Cult -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.01.06 13:44:00 -
[60]
Aah, leocaldari is also in my list, but not even in the top 30 ;)
(and these orders are from 2008-01-28 to 2009-03-20) ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
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