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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.14 04:07:00 - [31] Originally by: TriadSte Without going into too much detail I have just a few questions : Why can I no longer have 21 installations per planet on PI when the next patch goes live? Because of this I am being penalised to the tune of 33% less p0 extracted? CCP why have you changed power/cpu demands throughout Planetary Interaction? CCP why have you given us the awesome thing of sorting all the clicky out but also give us such a changed feature, that what we have been working on since PI came out will NO LONGER WORK. Why can I no longer scan for exploration sites the good old fashioned way? Why can I no more slap 2-3 more ABs onto my ship? Why was Nano-ship-fittings removed? Why was the output of certain Sleeper salvage increased so much? Why can't I put cruiser launchers on bombers any more? etc.. pp. Now crawl back into your hole. 0/10 support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries	Posted - 2011.01.14 05:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Space Pinata How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned? In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks? I don't know if you have been under a rock the past 2 years but deflation is exactly what CCP is striving for. They even said it back when they made the changes to Insurance. To paraphrase, "CCP wants the level of entry, in regards to isk, to be lowered"
Kalle Demos Amarr Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2011.01.14 06:02:00 - [33] You can have 30 installations per planet now **** :P Originally by:** Kool StoryBro <--- Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed. Random forum moments <0>
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.01.14 06:40:00 - [34] well, if there is inflation, CCP can simply adjust the tax to control liquidity, hence reduce inflation rapidly. I imagine, all the tax money you collect is used to fund lv 4 missions and some are given to pirates so that they come to high sec and let people do missions by killing them.

CCP Spitfire	Posted - 2011.01.14 07:18:00 - [35] Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.14 07:29:00 - [36] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'. Glares at Spitfire "next time warn me! shesh! back to the points I was going to make before you inadvertatnly deleted my post!(granted the timeing was my fault I was looking up something) 1) Everyone is hit more or less equaly 2) granted empire/lowsec muti extractors are hit a bit more with this due to the Power-unit extraction ratio but even there the hit is almost equal acrost the board (the inequality is due to the location of certain worlds in each Region making it harder in some areas to do P-1/2/3 chains) 3) it seems that the plan is for there to be for many new items going forward that are going to need more P1+ mats thus posibly increasing demand on existing supply, or reshaping demand alltogehter, 4) they may be working on a 3rd iteration of PI following this to better match up with Dust and or Incarna.
Tea Partier	Posted - 2011.01.14 07:49:00 - [37] What I would like to know is when I set my extractors can I get a similar extraction rate without moving my pins after the initial outlay without the insane amount of clicking compared to the current system? As PI is now, I'm about to quit all my PI activities and go from 3 accts to just 1/none.
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:58:00 - [38] Originally by: TriadSte ...I am being penalised... No you're not. Game mechanics are simply changing, but YOU are not being penalised as everyone else will also be affected. You'll still be able to compete against others on EXACTLY the same terms as them, so stop crying! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.01.14 09:23:00 - [39] Quote: Its not good for the producer who has to use more of his/her limited resources (planets) to produce the same finished goods. Its not good for the buyer of those products when there is less available. So who is it good for? Maybe pirates and griefers who want the challenge of killing an industrial ship. Typical WoW-carebear sentence. For once CCP changes a disgrace dumb boring and macroable minigame into something better suited to be called "game" and people cry because it's not AS stupid and flat experience any more? If there's lesS resources and you are a producer you'll unload the cost to buyers. If there's less resources and you are a trader you will enjoy slightly higher spreads. If there's less resources and you are a buyer you are enticed to make your own PI (which is CCP's idea) or upgrade your macro ratter / miners. So where's the problem? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.14 11:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Space Pinata How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned? Yes, it's good for the economy because there is too much ISK currently entering the economy compared to the production of stuff. That ISK needs to go. Quote: In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks? Yes, since the deflation isn't big enough (see blog 2/3 on the CSM minutes for their winter meeting). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.01.14 11:55:00 - [41] The deflation exists due to excess production, and has nothing to do with the amount of ISK entering into or stagnating within the game. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2011.01.14 12:40:00 - [42] I already moved my setups to P0>P1 on one planet and P1>P2 on another planet months ago, It's actually more efficient that way, especially when you have 6 planets per character. But with the the costs of the ECU as it's now on sisi I still will need to tweak my setups a bit, not as much as the OP though ;-) I have absolutely no issue with CCP changing game mechanics and forcing us to rethink what we have and how to use it. The 'danger' of the new PI isn't the way how the new extractors work, it's the lower entry point that's being created due to it being easier to maintain. And while the amount of time it takes decreases for us as well, thus the amount of units you produce per hour of actual 'work' goes up, the supply will increase as well, lowering the price per unit. I fear that the price per unit will go down so much that the less time spent clicking will not be enough compensation. On the other hand, maybe I'm evaluating the 'average' Eve player wrong (and this will actually turn away more folks then attract more)... Us dedicated PI managers (currently 58 colonies across 10 characters) will have a temporary advantage due to already having the skills and infrastructure in place, but I suspect that it's going to be short lived... I'm afraid that it will turn into another Datacore situation, a lot of effort and a lot of skill points that don't earn as much isk as it did previously, currently so little that I don't see it returning it's investment in my lifetime... But to be honest, that is what EVE is all about. Specialize until the path becomes obsolete, rinse and repeat. And if you hang around long enough, you might actually see it happen that a path is removed from game play and you'll get your SP back ;-)
Enord Loej Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.14 14:03:00 - [43] In supply and demand, if there is equal demand and less supply, prices increase. Eventually you will be making more money for less work.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2011.01.14 14:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Enord Loej In supply and demand, if there is equal demand and less supply, prices increase. Eventually you will be making more money for less work. That is assuming there is less supply, I suspect that there are only a few 'whiners' that will actually leave PI after the patch and there will be oodles of new folks doing PI because it has become so 'easy'. In supply and demand, if there is equal demand and more supply, prices decrease. Eventually you will be making so little money for so much work that you'll be going back to mining Veldspar for a greater profit.
big fluf	Posted - 2011.01.14 16:02:00 - [45] fluffy's suggested reading of the day: Adam Smith
Nicky's Tomb	Posted - 2011.01.14 16:13:00 - [46] Edited by: Nicky''s Tomb on 14/01/2011 16:13:52 Can we still not share access to the planets or even the custom's hangar? PI at the moment is too individual "Solitaire" no team work, cep't distributing planets between corp members and combining to one players factory.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.14 19:10:00 - [47] Everyone realizes that SiSi is a test server, right? Though the content / mechanics are generally the same as what goes live, the fine-tuning of numbers (like PI yield) is rarely correct.
Deandra Walran	Posted - 2011.01.14 22:50:00 - [48] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Everyone realizes that SiSi is a test server, right? Though the content / mechanics are generally the same as what goes live, the fine-tuning of numbers (like PI yield) is rarely correct. Extractor yield isn't the problem though. It is the CPU/PG of the extraction nodes/pins. Either you extract 2 resources, or you process 1 resource into a P1.
Tapopo	Posted - 2011.01.15 13:57:00 - [49] Oh well. I guess the plan I had to generate a p4 from 4 planets may not work after the change.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2011.01.15 21:24:00 - [50] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Space Pinata How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned? Yes, it's good for the economy because there is too much ISK currently entering the economy compared to the production of stuff. That ISK needs to go. Quote: In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks? Yes, since the removal of ISK isn't fast/large enough (see blog 2/3 on the CSM minutes for their winter meeting). Most notably, page 6: "The total money supply has been, for a long time, growing at an unsustainable rate û around 5% per month which is more than the economy is growing by per month." I disagree, you are confusing money already in circulation with fresh money entering the game. The 'Unsustainable' statement doesn't mean the money supply is to large now. Just that he thinks it will be to large at some point in the future. If anything I would say the evidence throughout last year was that the Eve economy was deflating because the money supply was to low. Rather like the real world. When the money supply is artificially inflated by phantom liquidity and that once that artificially liquidity is removed (Insurance nerf in Eve, bad debt paper IRL) the economy crashes. The money supply in Eve has not matched the amount of goods available for sometime. Then CCP add PI, a whole new market that required liquidity that was missing. That sucked liquidity out of other markets. Look at the long term (2 year) prices of things that haven't been subject to significant changes in most cases they have fallen in price vs 2 years ago. The money supply cannot be looked at in isolation, it needs to be looked at in relation to amount of goods in circulation and the amount of goods has increased significantly. The easiest way for CCP to deflate the economy is by adding new stuff to soak up the ISK and not try to reduce the supply.

Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2011.01.15 21:26:00 - [51] Originally by: Deandra Walran Originally by: Tau Cabalander Everyone realizes that SiSi is a test server, right? Though the content / mechanics are generally the same as what goes live, the fine-tuning of numbers (like PI yield) is rarely correct. Extractor yield isn't the problem though. It is the CPU/PG of the extraction nodes/pins. Either you extract 2 resources, or you process 1 resource into a P1. That is a good thing for Eve because it stratifies the market.
price iit	Posted - 2011.01.16 09:08:00 - [52] Ok well I just downloaded Singularity and went in expecting terrible things but honestly guys its not that bad I am currently making Integrity Response Drones and I think ill still be able to do it, possibly better then before i only have level 4 in all my skills and when I get level 5 command centers it will only get better.
Lirinas	Posted - 2011.01.16 14:38:00 - [53] Much of the problem and anger coming from those of us that have been testing the new PI interface is the lack of response from the Devs over in the Test Server forums. Nowhere have the Devs said that the new system is intended as a nerf, but it is a pretty severe nerf for PI once you play-around with it for a bit. Each ECU+Extractor Head uses a lot more CPU\Power than before, and you'll be lucky if you can deploy even half the number of extractors as before. This wouldn't be an issue except that each extractor head brings in 33% to 50% less resources than before. Finally since each ECU can handle only 1 kind of resource regardless of the number of extractors attached to it, makes it virtually impossible to be able to extract more than 2 materials from a planet and still do any meaningful production there. If some of the other much-asked-for features were thrown-in with PI, this wouldn't be quite as bad (linking planetary networks, better planet-side storage, planet-side structures to convert Power <> CPU, etc...) but we got none of those, and with the limited correspondence with the Devs, I think far more time was spent focusing on Incursions and the PI stuff was just being done as an afterthought. I know I'm going to need to totally rework my own modest setup entirely. In fact, I'm not 100% sure if I'll be able to use a single character to continue supplying my POS fuels without relocating to a completely different location due to the lack of certain planets in my neighborhood.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2011.01.16 20:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Its not good for the producer who has to use more of his/her limited resources (planets) to produce the same finished goods. Its not good for the buyer of those products when there is less available. So who is it good for? Maybe pirates and griefers who want the challenge of killing an industrial ship. Typical WoW-carebear sentence. For once CCP changes a disgrace dumb boring and macroable minigame into something better suited to be called "game" and people cry because it's not AS stupid and flat experience any more? If there's lesS resources and you are a producer you'll unload the cost to buyers. If there's less resources and you are a trader you will enjoy slightly higher spreads. If there's less resources and you are a buyer you are enticed to make your own PI (which is CCP's idea) or upgrade your macro ratter / miners. So where's the problem? The problem is jerks like you crawl out of the woodwork and preach sugarplum nonsense like this to the rest of us --- ☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻
price iit	Posted - 2011.01.16 21:59:00 - [55] Originally by: Lirinas Much of the problem and anger coming from those of us that have been testing the new PI interface is the lack of response from the Devs over in the Test Server forums. Nowhere have the Devs said that the new system is intended as a nerf, but it is a pretty severe nerf for PI once you play-around with it for a bit. Each ECU+Extractor Head uses a lot more CPU\Power than before, and you'll be lucky if you can deploy even half the number of extractors as before. This wouldn't be an issue except that each extractor head brings in 33% to 50% less resources than before. Finally since each ECU can handle only 1 kind of resource regardless of the number of extractors attached to it, makes it virtually impossible to be able to extract more than 2 materials from a planet and still do any meaningful production there. If some of the other much-asked-for features were thrown-in with PI, this wouldn't be quite as bad (linking planetary networks, better planet-side storage, planet-side structures to convert Power <> CPU, etc...) but we got none of those, and with the limited correspondence with the Devs, I think far more time was spent focusing on Incursions and the PI stuff was just being done as an afterthought. I know I'm going to need to totally rework my own modest setup entirely. In fact, I'm not 100% sure if I'll be able to use a single character to continue supplying my POS fuels without relocating to a completely different location due to the lack of certain planets in my neighborhood. I see thank you Lirinas i think this is the first well thought out explanation on what the problem is. I would like to be able to convert CPU to power for sure and i was disappointed to see i couldn't. On the matter on not being able to make as much im still not sure i was able to get: 3 upgraded links, 5 extractor heads, 3 basic processors, 2 advanced processors, and 2 spaceports onto my barren planet with a level 4 command center
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.01.16 23:13:00 - [56] Problem: You got involved in PI when it was completely broken and a horrible click-sink. Solution: Don't create 8 characters for a broken game mechanic.
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.17 13:39:00 - [57] Edited by: Xearal on 17/01/2011 13:39:40 Now, I haven't done MUCH research on Sisi, due to my client buggering up a lot, however, when I was setting up my planets with the new system, I found that I could produce just as much as I could produce before, sure, it was a bit more involved in setting up, but it was also a lot more interesting than clickety click click reset done. Points for CCP for improving PI. And Space Cookies. Edit: Forgot to also give them cookies.
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2011.01.17 20:56:00 - [58] whiney fukcer, pipe down.
ZenSun Total Mayhem. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.01.17 23:39:00 - [59] Originally by: Aunty Nora pipe down. /thread
Nosilaj	Posted - 2011.01.18 10:51:00 - [60] sooo I obviously missed something on sisi when I checked it out.... I am highly delighted with the new PI extractor, it looked like I could get more out and I can swing my pin till I hit the jackpot, you need to learn to swing your pin.... Ho HO HO. Or did that change in the last 20 minutes



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