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TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: TriadSte on 13/01/2011 20:48:35
Without going into too much detail I have just a few questions :
Why can I no longer have 21 installations per planet on PI when the next patch goes live?
Because of this I am being penalised to the tune of 33% less p0 extracted?
CCP why have you changed power/cpu demands throughout Planetary Interaction?
CCP why have you given us the awesome thing of sorting all the clicky out but also give us such a changed feature, that what we have been working on since PI came out will NO LONGER WORK.
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roastduck
Gallente
MerTeK
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:52:00 -
[2]
Is this opinion based on your personal experience with the new system in SiSi?
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TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:55:00 -
[3]
Yes indeed, I am a near perfect skilled PI operative as are all of my 8 alts working together in PI and the new system although looks awesome [ very well done CCP ] is rubbish.
Too much has been changed, extraction amounts PG/CPU requirements to setup planets have all changed.
Making the exact same colonies I am using right now on TQ cannot work, It is impossible.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:56:00 -
[4]
Answer: because you no longer need to have 21 installations per planet.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:58:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Tippia
Answer: because you no longer need to have 21 installations per planet.
Unless you know something I don't your very mistaken.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:59:00 -
[6]
crazy enough to have 8 alts, just have 10 instead 
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:02:00 -
[7]
Cry more?
Any time there's a rebalance, someone crys. This time it's you.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
crazy enough to have 8 alts, just have 10 instead
Prolly less work now too.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:08:00 -
[9]
Someone is upset over the PI improvements... I HAVE TO MEET YOU IRL, don't mind the video cameras its for a documentary.
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
rebalance
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Apostle Inconnu
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: TriadSte
Originally by: Tippia
Answer: because you no longer need to have 21 installations per planet.
Unless you know something I don't your very mistaken.
can you elaborate? i have't done a great deal of testing on SiSi but from the little I did do, it seemed that my colonies would produce pretty much the same amount but for a lot less clicking.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:12:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/01/2011 21:13:55
Originally by: TriadSte
Originally by: Tippia
Answer: because you no longer need to have 21 installations per planet.
Unless you know something I don't your very mistaken.
You can get more out of each installation and have far more control over the process to make the extraction match your needs.
The only "trick" to it is to realise that the new extractors work in a completely different way from the old ones, and that this means you need to use them in a completely different way. Having them extract the same amounts as before (or more) is rather trivial as long as you do not in any way think of them as if they are like the ones we currently have.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:12:00 -
[12]
+1 for making me lol. I for one welcome our pi improvement overlords.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tippia
You can get more out of each installation and have far more control over the process to make the extraction match your needs.
The only "trick" to it is to realise that the new extractors work in a completely different way from the old ones, and that this means you need to use them in a completely different way. Having them extract the same amounts as before (or more) is rather trivial as long as you do not in any way think of them as if they are like the ones we currently have.
Does anyone have a tutorial on the new PI? I am inclined to start doing PI since this version isn't getting "Teh Sux" reviews.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Does anyone have a tutorial on the new PI? I am inclined to start doing PI since this version isn't getting "Teh Sux" reviews.
Haven't seen one, but it's essentially like the old one except for the extraction phase where you can now make extractors suck up p0:s from a larger area (thus getting more from them) by installing longer extraction "programs".
As you increase the program length, you start to get dips and peaks in the extraction amount over time, with it exponentially petering out to zero as the program reaches its end. However, you can now cut the program short at any point and restart the process with just a couple of clicks (as opposed to having to wait the full extraction time and having to reset each individual extractor). That way, you can choose between being active and pick the juicy part(s) of the extraction curve or going for a lower-average, lower-work long-tail.
Extraction thus becomes a matter of placing your pins correctly, optionally moving them around as the sources thin out, and selecting a program that gives you the optimal combination of time granularity, area coverage, extraction amount, and extraction-peak timing. Oh, and your skills actually matter for how much you manage to extract.
It's actually arguably more work now than before, but it comes in the form of planning and calculating, not clicking.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Doctor Steinsbrow
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:42:00 -
[15]
if you're playing eve for PI, you're doing it wrong
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ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK
WARP INTO MORDOR J7HZ-F! |
Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:48:00 -
[16]
While there is some improvement in the PI interface (no more click fest) it has become increasingly more difficult to extract two resources from a single planet in order to create P2s.
Where you previously used a single plasma planet to create many different product, you will now be forced to use 2-3 planets to produce the same amount of finished products.
I guess POS fuels were too cheap in the minds of CCP.
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Kirith Vespira
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:50:00 -
[17]
On this toon alone I spend 19 min per day on PI, and make more than enough isk in one month to pay for the account with PLEX. That's ONE toon on ONE account in high. It's pretty sad if you grind PI on multiple toons, and think that's all there is to Eve.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Where you previously used a single plasma planet to create many different product, you will now be forced to use 2-3 planets to produce the same amount of finished products.
This is a fairly significant change, yes. With the fitting reqs of the ECUs, you're more limited as to how many different p0:s you can get at the same time from the same planet.
On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing too ù it makes people spread out a bit more, rather than bunch up on the same (plasma) planets extracting the same base resources.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Master Hamster
Testing on Humans
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:01:00 -
[19]
How many farmville accounts do you have? 
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tippia
On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing too ù it makes people spread out a bit more, rather than bunch up on the same (plasma) planets extracting the same base resources.
Good for who?
Its not good for the producer who has to use more of his/her limited resources (planets) to produce the same finished goods.
Its not good for the buyer of those products when there is less available.
So who is it good for? Maybe pirates and griefers who want the challenge of killing an industrial ship.
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Doctor Steinsbrow
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Originally by: Tippia
On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing too ù it makes people spread out a bit more, rather than bunch up on the same (plasma) planets extracting the same base resources.
Good for who?
Its not good for the producer who has to use more of his/her limited resources (planets) to produce the same finished goods.
Its not good for the buyer of those products when there is less available.
So who is it good for? Maybe pirates and griefers who want the challenge of killing an industrial ship.
ALRIGHT!!!
it's good for QQ!
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ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK
WARP INTO MORDOR J7HZ-F! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Good for who?
Idealist answer? Everyone ù they get to expand their practices and look for non-cookie-cutter solutions.
Practical answer? The economy. More taxes!
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Doctor Steinsbrow
if you're playing eve for PI, you're doing it wrong
If you are telling someone how they should play eve, you belong in stormwind city, not new eden.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tippia
Practical answer? The economy. More taxes!
If less is being produced, how does that equate to more taxes?
The new PI is more work for less production.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:13:00 -
[25]
What will happen to my existing planets? I have all of them set up and maxed out in terms of MW/CPU use...will I have to tear everything down and start over after the patch?
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Horizonist
What will happen to my existing planets? I have all of them set up and maxed out in terms of MW/CPU use...will I have to tear everything down and start over after the patch?
Pretty much. You production chains will be invalid, because you will no longer have the CPU/Grid to make what you are making.
Where now, it was economical to create P2s on a single planet, you will need 3 planets to do this at a greater expense. You'll produce tons more P0, with very little improvement to the P1 or P2 amount.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
If less is being produced, how does that equate to more taxes?
Because that lower production number still means you have to pass more stuff taking more trips through the customs offices. Using two planets for one product means you have to go through the CO three times (export base mat, import base mat, export final product) whereas using two planets for one product each only means two trip (two final product exports).
Granted, I haven't checked the actual math on that since different tiers yield different taxes, but the theory worksà 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Polgara
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Horizonist
What will happen to my existing planets? I have all of them set up and maxed out in terms of MW/CPU use...will I have to tear everything down and start over after the patch?
Your current extractors will only have the option to delete when the "improvements " go live. Your factoryÆs and refineries will still be in place along with your CC and LP/Silos
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tippia
but the theory worksà
That's good enough for me, I'm convinced by your awesomely worded post
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.14 03:58:00 -
[30]
How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned?
In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks? |
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.01.14 04:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: TriadSte
Without going into too much detail I have just a few questions :
Why can I no longer have 21 installations per planet on PI when the next patch goes live?
Because of this I am being penalised to the tune of 33% less p0 extracted?
CCP why have you changed power/cpu demands throughout Planetary Interaction?
CCP why have you given us the awesome thing of sorting all the clicky out but also give us such a changed feature, that what we have been working on since PI came out will NO LONGER WORK.
Why can I no longer scan for exploration sites the good old fashioned way?
Why can I no more slap 2-3 more ABs onto my ship?
Why was Nano-ship-fittings removed?
Why was the output of certain Sleeper salvage increased so much?
Why can't I put cruiser launchers on bombers any more?
etc.. pp.
Now crawl back into your hole.
0/10
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.14 05:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Space Pinata
How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned?
In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks?
I don't know if you have been under a rock the past 2 years but deflation is exactly what CCP is striving for. They even said it back when they made the changes to Insurance. To paraphrase, "CCP wants the level of entry, in regards to isk, to be lowered"
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Kalle Demos
Amarr
Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2011.01.14 06:02:00 -
[33]
You can have 30 installations per planet now ****** :P
Originally by: Kool StoryBro
<---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
AristotleOnassis
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Posted - 2011.01.14 06:40:00 -
[34]
well, if there is inflation, CCP can simply adjust the tax to control liquidity, hence reduce inflation rapidly.
I imagine, all the tax money you collect is used to fund lv 4 missions and some are given to pirates so that they come to high sec and let people do missions by killing them.
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2011.01.14 07:18:00 -
[35]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.14 07:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Glares at Spitfire "next time warn me! shesh!
back to the points I was going to make before you inadvertatnly deleted my post!(granted the timeing was my fault I was looking up something)
1) Everyone is hit more or less equaly
2) granted empire/lowsec muti extractors are hit a bit more with this due to the Power-unit extraction ratio but even there the hit is almost equal acrost the board (the inequality is due to the location of certain worlds in each Region making it harder in some areas to do P-1/2/3 chains)
3) it seems that the plan is for there to be for many new items going forward that are going to need more P1+ mats thus posibly increasing demand on existing supply, or reshaping demand alltogehter,
4) they may be working on a 3rd iteration of PI following this to better match up with Dust and or Incarna.
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Tea Partier
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Posted - 2011.01.14 07:49:00 -
[37]
What I would like to know is when I set my extractors can I get a similar extraction rate without moving my pins after the initial outlay without the insane amount of clicking compared to the current system?
As PI is now, I'm about to quit all my PI activities and go from 3 accts to just 1/none.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.14 08:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: TriadSte
...I am being penalised...
No you're not. Game mechanics are simply changing, but YOU are not being penalised as everyone else will also be affected.
You'll still be able to compete against others on EXACTLY the same terms as them, so stop crying!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.14 09:23:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Its not good for the producer who has to use more of his/her limited resources (planets) to produce the same finished goods.
Its not good for the buyer of those products when there is less available.
So who is it good for? Maybe pirates and griefers who want the challenge of killing an industrial ship.
Typical WoW-carebear sentence.
For once CCP changes a disgrace dumb boring and macroable minigame into something better suited to be called "game" and people cry because it's not AS stupid and flat experience any more?
If there's lesS resources and you are a producer you'll unload the cost to buyers.
If there's less resources and you are a trader you will enjoy slightly higher spreads.
If there's less resources and you are a buyer you are enticed to make your own PI (which is CCP's idea) or upgrade your macro ratter / miners.
So where's the problem?
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Auditing & consulting
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.14 11:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Space Pinata
How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned?
Yes, it's good for the economy because there is too much ISK currently entering the economy compared to the production of stuff. That ISK needs to go.
Quote:
In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks?
Yes, since the deflation isn't big enough (see blog 2/3 on the CSM minutes for their winter meeting).
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.14 11:55:00 -
[41]
The deflation exists due to excess production, and has nothing to do with the amount of ISK entering into or stagnating within the game.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.14 12:40:00 -
[42]
I already moved my setups to P0>P1 on one planet and P1>P2 on another planet months ago, It's actually more efficient that way, especially when you have 6 planets per character. But with the the costs of the ECU as it's now on sisi I still will need to tweak my setups a bit, not as much as the OP though ;-)
I have absolutely no issue with CCP changing game mechanics and forcing us to rethink what we have and how to use it.
The 'danger' of the new PI isn't the way how the new extractors work, it's the lower entry point that's being created due to it being easier to maintain. And while the amount of time it takes decreases for us as well, thus the amount of units you produce per hour of actual 'work' goes up, the supply will increase as well, lowering the price per unit. I fear that the price per unit will go down so much that the less time spent clicking will not be enough compensation. On the other hand, maybe I'm evaluating the 'average' Eve player wrong (and this will actually turn away more folks then attract more)...
Us dedicated PI managers (currently 58 colonies across 10 characters) will have a temporary advantage due to already having the skills and infrastructure in place, but I suspect that it's going to be short lived...
I'm afraid that it will turn into another Datacore situation, a lot of effort and a lot of skill points that don't earn as much isk as it did previously, currently so little that I don't see it returning it's investment in my lifetime...
But to be honest, that is what EVE is all about. Specialize until the path becomes obsolete, rinse and repeat. And if you hang around long enough, you might actually see it happen that a path is removed from game play and you'll get your SP back ;-)
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Enord Loej
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.01.14 14:03:00 -
[43]
In supply and demand, if there is equal demand and less supply, prices increase. Eventually you will be making more money for less work.
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Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.14 14:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Enord Loej
In supply and demand, if there is equal demand and less supply, prices increase. Eventually you will be making more money for less work.
That is assuming there is less supply, I suspect that there are only a few 'whiners' that will actually leave PI after the patch and there will be oodles of new folks doing PI because it has become so 'easy'.
In supply and demand, if there is equal demand and more supply, prices decrease. Eventually you will be making so little money for so much work that you'll be going back to mining Veldspar for a greater profit.
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big fluf
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Posted - 2011.01.14 16:02:00 -
[45]
fluffy's suggested reading of the day: Adam Smith
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2011.01.14 16:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Nicky''s Tomb on 14/01/2011 16:13:52
Can we still not share access to the planets or even the custom's hangar?
PI at the moment is too individual "Solitaire" no team work, cep't distributing planets between corp members and combining to one players factory.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:10:00 -
[47]
Everyone realizes that SiSi is a test server, right? Though the content / mechanics are generally the same as what goes live, the fine-tuning of numbers (like PI yield) is rarely correct.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.14 22:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Everyone realizes that SiSi is a test server, right? Though the content / mechanics are generally the same as what goes live, the fine-tuning of numbers (like PI yield) is rarely correct.
Extractor yield isn't the problem though. It is the CPU/PG of the extraction nodes/pins. Either you extract 2 resources, or you process 1 resource into a P1.
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Tapopo
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Posted - 2011.01.15 13:57:00 -
[49]
Oh well. I guess the plan I had to generate a p4 from 4 planets may not work after the change.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 21:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Space Pinata
How is 'more taxes' better for the economy in a game where the taxes are not spent but instead dumped in a hole and burned?
Yes, it's good for the economy because there is too much ISK currently entering the economy compared to the production of stuff. That ISK needs to go.
Quote:
In the face of deflation we cling to the mantra of more isk sinks?
Yes, since the removal of ISK isn't fast/large enough (see blog 2/3 on the CSM minutes for their winter meeting).
Most notably, page 6: "The total money supply has been, for a long time, growing at an
unsustainable rate û around 5% per month which is more than the economy is growing by per month."
I disagree, you are confusing money already in circulation with fresh money entering the game. The 'Unsustainable' statement doesn't mean the money supply is to large now. Just that he thinks it will be to large at some point in the future.
If anything I would say the evidence throughout last year was that the Eve economy was deflating because the money supply was to low. Rather like the real world. When the money supply is artificially inflated by phantom liquidity and that once that artificially liquidity is removed (Insurance nerf in Eve, bad debt paper IRL) the economy crashes.
The money supply in Eve has not matched the amount of goods available for sometime. Then CCP add PI, a whole new market that required liquidity that was missing. That sucked liquidity out of other markets.
Look at the long term (2 year) prices of things that haven't been subject to significant changes in most cases they have fallen in price vs 2 years ago.
The money supply cannot be looked at in isolation, it needs to be looked at in relation to amount of goods in circulation and the amount of goods has increased significantly.
The easiest way for CCP to deflate the economy is by adding new stuff to soak up the ISK and not try to reduce the supply.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 21:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Everyone realizes that SiSi is a test server, right? Though the content / mechanics are generally the same as what goes live, the fine-tuning of numbers (like PI yield) is rarely correct.
Extractor yield isn't the problem though. It is the CPU/PG of the extraction nodes/pins. Either you extract 2 resources, or you process 1 resource into a P1.
That is a good thing for Eve because it stratifies the market.
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price iit
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Posted - 2011.01.16 09:08:00 -
[52]
Ok well I just downloaded Singularity and went in expecting terrible things but honestly guys its not that bad I am currently making Integrity Response Drones and I think ill still be able to do it, possibly better then before i only have level 4 in all my skills and when I get level 5 command centers it will only get better.
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Lirinas
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Posted - 2011.01.16 14:38:00 -
[53]
Much of the problem and anger coming from those of us that have been testing the new PI interface is the lack of response from the Devs over in the Test Server forums. Nowhere have the Devs said that the new system is intended as a nerf, but it is a pretty severe nerf for PI once you play-around with it for a bit.
Each ECU+Extractor Head uses a lot more CPU\Power than before, and you'll be lucky if you can deploy even half the number of extractors as before. This wouldn't be an issue except that each extractor head brings in 33% to 50% less resources than before. Finally since each ECU can handle only 1 kind of resource regardless of the number of extractors attached to it, makes it virtually impossible to be able to extract more than 2 materials from a planet and still do any meaningful production there.
If some of the other much-asked-for features were thrown-in with PI, this wouldn't be quite as bad (linking planetary networks, better planet-side storage, planet-side structures to convert Power <> CPU, etc...) but we got none of those, and with the limited correspondence with the Devs, I think far more time was spent focusing on Incursions and the PI stuff was just being done as an afterthought.
I know I'm going to need to totally rework my own modest setup entirely. In fact, I'm not 100% sure if I'll be able to use a single character to continue supplying my POS fuels without relocating to a completely different location due to the lack of certain planets in my neighborhood.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
|
Posted - 2011.01.16 20:45:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Its not good for the producer who has to use more of his/her limited resources (planets) to produce the same finished goods.
Its not good for the buyer of those products when there is less available.
So who is it good for? Maybe pirates and griefers who want the challenge of killing an industrial ship.
Typical WoW-carebear sentence.
For once CCP changes a disgrace dumb boring and macroable minigame into something better suited to be called "game" and people cry because it's not AS stupid and flat experience any more?
If there's lesS resources and you are a producer you'll unload the cost to buyers.
If there's less resources and you are a trader you will enjoy slightly higher spreads.
If there's less resources and you are a buyer you are enticed to make your own PI (which is CCP's idea) or upgrade your macro ratter / miners.
So where's the problem?
The problem is jerks like you crawl out of the woodwork and preach sugarplum nonsense like this to the rest of us
---
☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻ |
price iit
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:59:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lirinas
Much of the problem and anger coming from those of us that have been testing the new PI interface is the lack of response from the Devs over in the Test Server forums. Nowhere have the Devs said that the new system is intended as a nerf, but it is a pretty severe nerf for PI once you play-around with it for a bit.
Each ECU+Extractor Head uses a lot more CPU\Power than before, and you'll be lucky if you can deploy even half the number of extractors as before. This wouldn't be an issue except that each extractor head brings in 33% to 50% less resources than before. Finally since each ECU can handle only 1 kind of resource regardless of the number of extractors attached to it, makes it virtually impossible to be able to extract more than 2 materials from a planet and still do any meaningful production there.
If some of the other much-asked-for features were thrown-in with PI, this wouldn't be quite as bad (linking planetary networks, better planet-side storage, planet-side structures to convert Power <> CPU, etc...) but we got none of those, and with the limited correspondence with the Devs, I think far more time was spent focusing on Incursions and the PI stuff was just being done as an afterthought.
I know I'm going to need to totally rework my own modest setup entirely. In fact, I'm not 100% sure if I'll be able to use a single character to continue supplying my POS fuels without relocating to a completely different location due to the lack of certain planets in my neighborhood.
I see thank you Lirinas i think this is the first well thought out explanation on what the problem is. I would like to be able to convert CPU to power for sure and i was disappointed to see i couldn't. On the matter on not being able to make as much im still not sure i was able to get: 3 upgraded links, 5 extractor heads, 3 basic processors, 2 advanced processors, and 2 spaceports onto my barren planet with a level 4 command center
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.01.16 23:13:00 -
[56]
Problem: You got involved in PI when it was completely broken and a horrible click-sink.
Solution: Don't create 8 characters for a broken game mechanic.
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Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.17 13:39:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Xearal on 17/01/2011 13:39:40
Now, I haven't done MUCH research on Sisi, due to my client buggering up a lot, however, when I was setting up my planets with the new system, I found that I could produce just as much as I could produce before, sure, it was a bit more involved in setting up, but it was also a lot more interesting than clickety click click reset done.
Points for CCP for improving PI.
And Space Cookies.
Edit: Forgot to also give them cookies.
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:56:00 -
[58]
whiney fukcer, pipe down.
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.01.17 23:39:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Aunty Nora
pipe down.
/thread
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Nosilaj
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Posted - 2011.01.18 10:51:00 -
[60]
sooo I obviously missed something on sisi when I checked it out.... I am highly delighted with the new PI extractor, it looked like I could get more out and I can swing my pin till I hit the jackpot, you need to learn to swing your pin.... Ho HO HO. Or did that change in the last 20 minutes
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2011.01.18 11:56:00 -
[61]
dear god, less Pi extracted from the planets = higher prices on market = same isk value ...
yummy tears
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Acac Sunflyier
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Posted - 2011.01.18 12:24:00 -
[62]
Maybe the OP is in high sec. And that would make a difference
 |
Istomi
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Posted - 2011.01.18 15:15:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
Maybe the OP is in high sec. And that would make a difference
Nope in 0.0 the most you can effectively run now is a 3/Basic/Basic/Advanced setup vs a 4/B/B/A setup like before due to the extra powergrid the ECU use + the Extractor heads. If you currently run a p0->p2 chain the most you can get now is 15 P2s an hour vs the 20 you could get before. However there is a lot less clicking so maybe more people will get in on the action.
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Dirk Smacker
United Space Marine Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.18 15:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lord Helghast
dear god, less Pi extracted from the planets = higher prices on market = same isk value ...
yummy tears
I thought the same as the OP until I realized how the hardcore PI player can utilize TIME.
If you were risking carpel tunnel and doing 4x5hr cycles on 8 characters, you won't be able to match the output rate under the new system. However, you can set that last cycle to cover most of the dead time you had under the old system, making up the difference in total extraction.
This is especially beneficial if you are used to two cycles a day. Instead of 14 hours of dead time, you can reduce it down to a very short amount of time if you know when you will be resetting them. Again, the output RATE will be lower, but the TOTAL will be much higher.
The only ones getting hosed are the ones in 0.0 extracting more than two materials on a single planet and making P3's. The power requirements for three ECU's are pretty tight.
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.01.18 15:31:00 -
[65]
im not too worried. the prices will go up.
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Elim Hayane
Gallente
Twilight Exodus
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Posted - 2011.01.18 16:56:00 -
[66]
I don't care so much about the price but my hours of work optimizing extractor and link locations to squeeze the most out of the powergrid are now wasted because of the drastically different power requirements of extractor control units. Why didn't they just make ECUs free and extractor heads the same? Or alternatively left the old extractors in game? Having to redo everything is a turnoff.
* * *
Ask not what your profits can do for you, but what you can do for your profits. |
Sephiroth Valentine
The Secret PoIice
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:18:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Sephiroth Valentine on 18/01/2011 17:22:50
Wow P.I. got 66% less cool.
Lemme get this straight.
You can no longer build Advanced Materials from one planet.
True or False statement?
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queenbee22
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:19:00 -
[68]
Ok so Im trying to reestablish my extractors. I finally get a spot where I feel is a good spot, try and route the p0 mats and wow its to congested to move it. Now what? Im routing less material than I was previously. Is there anything I can do?
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Grashin Melar
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
Edited by: Sephiroth Valentine on 18/01/2011 17:29:53
Edited by: Sephiroth Valentine on 18/01/2011 17:22:50
Wow P.I. got 66% less cool.
Lemme get this straight.
You can no longer build Advanced Materials from one planet.
True or False statement?
haha it's funny, I was waiting all morning for this to go live. Now I don't even want to play.
Buzz Kill! 
From what I can tell: true. Power grid requirements will not allow you a fourth extractor control unit.
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Fu Young
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:22:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Fu Young on 18/01/2011 18:22:53
so is the basic plan for ccp want us to have is
even if you got advanced center, should still only get 1 extrator head?
im trying to make 2x p2 on planet, doesnt seem possible anymore
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Sephiroth Valentine
The Secret PoIice
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:28:00 -
[71]
Only way you can build robotics now using just one planet seems to be staggering the material extracting.
For instance find a spot where you can get 2 of the materials in a somewhat decent amount. Then every other time you run extraction, extract the other material. This will mean you extract at a 50% rate pre-patch but there you have it.
Guess they want multiple planet use for anything over P1.
Dumb 
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:29:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
Lemme get this straight.
You can no longer build Advanced Materials from one planet.
True or False statement?
False.
You can build advanced materials on a single planet.
However, it takes more work than just restarting extractors. You have to harvest some P0 1 and P0 2, run those through P1 and P2 processing. Then reset the extraction heads and extract some P0 3 ad P0 4, run those through P1, P2 and combine with the P2 from run one to make your P3.
There needs to be a time sink. If you don't want to spend 15 minutes restarting 100 extractors, then expect to spend it scanning, moving around extraction heads and reseting your production chain.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:31:00 -
[73]
The basic plan was to first get us back to the production ratioes they had originaly planed for economicaly in the first place.
as I mentioned elsewhere they originaly did not expect us to plop down the layouts we did, they expected us to spread it out a bit more, resulting in fewer extractors as routes ate up power and cpu.
But due to them haveing to stick with a "no polution" modle for technical reasons we got what we got back then.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:31:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Fu Young
Edited by: Fu Young on 18/01/2011 18:22:53
so is the basic plan for ccp want us to have is
even if you got advanced center, should still only get 1 extrator head?
im trying to make 2x p2 on planet, doesnt seem possible anymore
Looks that way.
I just did some quick playing with 2 of my planets (2 diff toons). The first in Worm-space - There doesn't seem to be much of an impact here. I'm running an Elite CC and was able to replace the original extractors I had and keep the same general extraction rate.
The second was high-sec - This one took a real hit. Because the ECU is limited to 10 heads I was unable to replace all my extractors. As this toon is not skilled for Elite CC yet I am stuck with Advanced and unable to place a second ECU.
Being able to move the heads anywhere within range of the ECU = +5
Power Requirements for the ECU = -8
Adjustable time table = +5
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:42:00 -
[75]
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 18/01/2011 18:44:27
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
Only way you can build robotics now using just one planet seems to be staggering the material extracting.
true.
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
For instance find a spot where you can get 2 of the materials in a somewhat decent amount. Then every other time you run extraction, extract the other material. This will mean you extract at a 50% rate pre-patch but there you have it.
False.
You are still in the old "static colony" mindset. Think more dynamically, since you can now move the extractor heads for free.
Assuming you are not using a manufacturing planet where you take all P1 for furthere processing....
OLD way: Set up your colony once. Return to restart extractors in a boring, mind numbing click fest. Export goods.
New way: Set up your colony to extract some of the stuff you want and run a portion of the manufacturing chain. Come back, move your extraction heads, extract the rest of the materials you need, reset the production chain.
Gone is the mind numbing click fest as a time sink. Now you have to either haul between planets, or you have to move around extractor heads and rest production lines.
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar
Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
OLD way: Set up your colony once. Return to restart extractors in a boring, mind numbing click fest. Export goods.
New way: Set up your colony to extract some of the stuff you want and run a portion of the manufacturing chain. Come back, move your extraction heads, extract the rest of the materials you need, reset the production chain.
Gone is the mind numbing click fest as a time sink. Now you have to either haul between planets, or you have to move around extractor heads and rest production lines.
Translation: More work (even if it is "engaging" work)and time for less production.
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Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:51:00 -
[77]
Instead of a boring clickfest, simply re-starting very efficient colonies....
We now have a boring click-and-drag-fest due to having to move extractor heads to different resources because it's almost impossible to have more than 2 ECU on a planet, and therefore impossible to hoover up more than 2 diffrent resources at the same time.
We now have to over-produce one P0, change heads to another P0, then change it back again later.
What a PITA.
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Royaldo
Gallente
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:51:00 -
[78]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 18/01/2011 18:44:27
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
Only way you can build robotics now using just one planet seems to be staggering the material extracting.
true.
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
For instance find a spot where you can get 2 of the materials in a somewhat decent amount. Then every other time you run extraction, extract the other material. This will mean you extract at a 50% rate pre-patch but there you have it.
False.
You are still in the old "static colony" mindset. Think more dynamically, since you can now move the extractor heads for free.
Assuming you are not using a manufacturing planet where you take all P1 for furthere processing....
OLD way: Set up your colony once. Return to restart extractors in a boring, mind numbing click fest. Export goods.
New way: Set up your colony to extract some of the stuff you want and run a portion of the manufacturing chain. Come back, move your extraction heads, extract the rest of the materials you need, reset the production chain.
Gone is the mind numbing click fest as a time sink. Now you have to either haul between planets, or you have to move around extractor heads and rest production lines.
yeah cus that bit isnt annoying and time consuming at all
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:52:00 -
[79]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Gone is the mind numbing click fest as a time sink. Now you have to either haul between planets, or you have to move around extractor heads and rest production lines.
The new system isn't really any less mind-numbing. "Move head, wait for horrible interface to refresh graph, mouse over graph because the height doesn't actually tell you what you need to know, move head, wait for..."
The new system isn't any more engaging than the old system, it's just more interactive. Not the same thing. Give it a week, people will hate the new even more than the old one.
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar
Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:57:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Julien Brellier
Instead of a boring clickfest, simply re-starting very efficient colonies....
We now have a boring click-and-drag-fest due to having to move extractor heads to different resources because it's almost impossible to have more than 2 ECU on a planet, and therefore impossible to hoover up more than 2 diffrent resources at the same time.
We now have to over-produce one P0, change heads to another P0, then change it back again later.
What a PITA.
I want my click-fest back. At least with that I could spend 15 minutes to produce instead of spending 30 minutes to get less.
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Fu Young
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:01:00 -
[81]
agreed
ccp, you done it again.
don't fix something that ain't broken.
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Sephiroth Valentine
The Secret PoIice
|
Posted - 2011.01.18 19:23:00 -
[82]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 18/01/2011 18:44:27
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
Only way you can build robotics now using just one planet seems to be staggering the material extracting.
true.
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
For instance find a spot where you can get 2 of the materials in a somewhat decent amount. Then every other time you run extraction, extract the other material. This will mean you extract at a 50% rate pre-patch but there you have it.
False.
You are still in the old "static colony" mindset. Think more dynamically, since you can now move the extractor heads for free.
Assuming you are not using a manufacturing planet where you take all P1 for furthere processing....
OLD way: Set up your colony once. Return to restart extractors in a boring, mind numbing click fest. Export goods.
New way: Set up your colony to extract some of the stuff you want and run a portion of the manufacturing chain. Come back, move your extraction heads, extract the rest of the materials you need, reset the production chain.
Gone is the mind numbing click fest as a time sink. Now you have to either haul between planets, or you have to move around extractor heads and rest production lines.
I was using an example of taking those P1 materials and processing them further, therefore still using one planet to make robotics.
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MechaMouse
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:56:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Lord Helghast
yummy tears
from everyone, prices are going to go way up, POS will be allot harder to fuel now
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lushn
|
Posted - 2011.01.18 20:40:00 -
[84]
I used to do robotics in one planet with 13 extractor and 7 processor, today i was unable to put even one processor after 4 ECU. This game start to punish industrial characters and miners more. But CCP dont forget. miners and industrials usually have multiple acounts. If this game will change in order to attract some new rookies who love to shot each other and lose its complexity , then it will lose many of its old users too |
Tnas
Gallente
Liberation Army
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.01.19 03:34:00 -
[85]
So who's brilliant idea was it to make hot spots move?
-100 for that idea alone.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.01.19 10:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: lushn
I used to do robotics in one planet with 13 extractor and 7 processor, today i was unable to put even one processor after 4 ECU. This game start to punish industrial characters and miners more. But CCP dont forget. miners and industrials usually have multiple acounts. If this game will change in order to attract some new rookies who love to shot each other and lose its complexity , then it will lose many of its old users too
oh good grief, they added more complexity to the game by making PI take brains to do instead of just being a mindless clickfest.
If you're ever using more than 2 ECUs per planet youre doing it wrong.
Yes I make robotics on one planet, and it isnt even that hard.
Here's a hint, ECUs can be re-configured to mine something else after the current program is done.
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Argonaught
Minmatar
Cabbage Tea
|
Posted - 2011.01.19 12:58:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Sigras
Originally by: lushn
I used to do robotics in one planet with 13 extractor and 7 processor, today i was unable to put even one processor after 4 ECU. This game start to punish industrial characters and miners more. But CCP dont forget. miners and industrials usually have multiple acounts. If this game will change in order to attract some new rookies who love to shot each other and lose its complexity , then it will lose many of its old users too
oh good grief, they added more complexity to the game by making PI take brains to do instead of just being a mindless clickfest.
If you're ever using more than 2 ECUs per planet youre doing it wrong.
Yes I make robotics on one planet, and it isnt even that hard.
Here's a hint, ECUs can be re-configured to mine something else after the current program is done.
Yes very true but you forget that not all want things so drastically changed that it fubars a much wider player base.
The Planets I have colonies on have their resources too spread apart for me to just switch what the ECU's are extracting. In order to do your plan I have to kill my ECU and rebuild it over near the other resource.
I'm in low sec .1 system too and the rates of extraction are cr@ppy.
Complexity is nice and all but they didn't have to make ECU's eat MW of PG, after all an ECU shouldn't use any of the CC PG or CPU until you add the heads and then only add what it used to be 800mw PG per head.
It's all down to whats gonna happen in the long run when the smaller corps can't afford to run their POS due to higher fuel costs.
Just my thoughts.
Argo.
------------------------------------------------
Coming soom or never.sig |
Chelone
Junkyard Gunners
|
Posted - 2011.01.20 05:01:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tnas
So who's brilliant idea was it to make hot spots move?
-100 for that idea alone.
It's not a bad idea if it would work on a fair and sensible time scale. Like slowly diminishing over a period of many weeks, or several months. THAT would have been fine.
Oh did you hear about the new quarry they're setting up down the stree oh wait they already moved it. Riiiiggghhhttt.
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Yusimicon
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Posted - 2011.01.20 05:46:00 -
[89]
All I can say is this:
Wait until the players have already figured out efficient ways of using the new PI system and watch their tutorial videos. Either that, or figure it out yourself. Besides, PI production is still in its infancy since Tyrannis was released (which was not too long ago). Give it time and all will be better.
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Chelone
Junkyard Gunners
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Posted - 2011.01.20 06:27:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Yusimicon
PI production is still in its infancy since Tyrannis was released (which was not too long ago). Give it time and all will be better.
But it WAS better. Now it is WORSE. Therefore, waiting isn't the answer. Screaming and screaming and screaming about it is, because the devs NEVER listen until the screaming reaches a certain threshold. People screamed about it on test server and not a single issue was addressed. The sad, sad state of operations at CCP.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.01.20 07:06:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Chelone
But it WAS better. Now it is WORSE. Therefore, waiting isn't the answer. Screaming and screaming and screaming about it is, because the devs NEVER listen until the screaming reaches a certain threshold. People screamed about it on test server and not a single issue was addressed. The sad, sad state of operations at CCP.
Waiting _IS_ the answer; the bot makers will be sure to make something work even though it's going require much effort. Just have patience.
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Ranja Jeemana
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Posted - 2011.01.20 07:31:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Doctor Steinsbrow
if you're playing eve for PI, you're doing it wrong
Yeah? Tell that to the guy who's producing your T2 ships and parts and doing the massive amount of R&D on the blueprints to make the game run, because PI is almost certainly what is fueling his POS towers and labs, and providing the materials he needs to craft the ships you keep getting blown-up, ****-jockey.
Oh yeah, that guy is me, hi there. I depended on PI to make all of those things work, the change in PI has increased the cost in time to do PI effectively while reducing the output and requiring more time hauling and being present at your PI worlds to be efficient. PI was already a joke as far as profit and real utility - now it's just a sad joke.
The only ones not *****ing right now are the ones who were already bending over and doing the P0 -> P2 manufacturing planet hauls and getting ****d for 3 Launchpad charges per P2/P3 item made. Higher yield, but made a deeper cut into your personal time and profits. Now the lazy way of getting just enough to feed a couple of POS towers is removed, along with the ability to play the PI game how you want to.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.20 07:41:00 -
[93]
The Irony is, if they had decided to not release PI way back in the state it was back then and simply waited untill now to release it. . . odds are noone would have said a blooming thing about any of this.
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Chelone
Junkyard Gunners
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Posted - 2011.01.20 07:51:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
The Irony is, if they had decided to not release PI way back in the state it was back then and simply waited untill now to release it. . . odds are noone would have said a blooming thing about any of this.
The people using the materials (POS runners) certainly would have. Judging from the complaints, less people will be doing PI now than before. And I'm not talking about just the forced shift away from single-planet P2's, I'm talking about the ridiculously frequent depletion. Where's the realism in mining out an entire area in a day?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.20 07:59:00 -
[95]
(sigh) I said it before I will say it again one last time
this was all known ON SISI for the past month.
while we did not know what the final result would be, we did know that there would be an impact.
we have given them feedback and even in a few cases some extended spreadsheets based on what we saw happening on Sisi.
The reality that people like you Decided to simply run head long into the low hanging spiked brick wall they built and that, well, frankly, was totaly inexcusable on your part. were now bascialy stuck with this untill the good Profesor of economics can sit down with what they now consider real numbers and figure out what the heck they should do from here.
in the mean time, belive it or not the impresion I got was that they actualy feel that they were being TOO GENEROUS with the numbers for depletion and polution.
Go figure, the developers are barking insain.
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Chelone
Junkyard Gunners
|
Posted - 2011.01.20 08:09:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
(sigh) I said it before I will say it again one last time
this was all known ON SISI for the past month.
And people complained and CCP did nothing to address their complaints. As always. Thus here we are.
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Meladas
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Posted - 2011.01.20 09:19:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Meladas on 20/01/2011 09:22:55
Edited by: Meladas on 20/01/2011 09:21:02
Originally by: Steve Thomas
this was all known ON SISI for the past month.
The thing is, you couldn't really trust some of the results gathered on sisi.
Simple example: I was able to build hi-sec planets able to produce up to 4 times (yes 4 times!) the output that was possible on tranq at that time. Even after a week worth of harvesting it was still significant better than tranq rates.
Why you ask? Because the ressource distribution on sisi is different than on tranq and some planets seem to have insane high ressource counts. I guess part of it may be the lack of "competition" too.
Even now on tranq i get mixed results. Most planets produce less than before (after the first one or two programms finished). But the odd planet here and there actually produces more (probably only till the next programm is over though), because the decline is less steep.
The main drawback for me is the heat-map. Before it was only utterly wrong in a lot cases (producing 20 % more in a non white spot anyone?), but it didn't matter once you had your extractors placed. Now it is completly worthless when you start extracting (Because at least for me it seems to be static, even though the underlying ressource distribution changed). Randomly moving heads and starting/stopping programs (without submitting the changes) till it gets better is no fun.
Sidenote: Did anyone else note a peak increase in gpu power required to render the planet view? |
Arcitect
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Posted - 2011.01.20 09:20:00 -
[98]
Hummm according to what I read, prices of PI stuff will go up... GREAT!! 
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Thoedoric
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Posted - 2011.01.20 10:42:00 -
[99]
It took a few hours to tinker with it and figure it out, but with the new system in place I am seeing almost a 27% increase to my production/profit margins.
May still be a little early to blow the all is clear whistle, but im sure in the next week or two I will have some more historical data to work with. If the only thing I have to worry about is the hot spots moving around that I can adjust to.
My fear is can we bleed the planet dry?
If so, what are the stats on that based on how many players have a operations set up per planet?
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Bitchslaping Biatch
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Posted - 2011.01.20 11:35:00 -
[100]
Lets stop doing PI for good. When the stock runs dry we are going to see some answer. I already did stop doing it.
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Barry Ze'Choppa
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Posted - 2011.01.20 11:43:00 -
[101]
I never realised how many PI users were actually out there until this patch.
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Brutal Concussion
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Posted - 2011.01.20 12:31:00 -
[102]
I've waited a little while before making a post, it being my first one on the forums and whatnot. I pretty much lurked and gathered what I could from other people's posts, determining how to best redo my setups and such. I just started making PI alts so that I could afford to plex and alt account and still have some cash left over.
First I'd like to say a few things about what I like from the new PI system:
I think the new extractor system is great. Takes far less time to do and with a lot less clicking. Sometimes I need to move a head or two around to find a good sweet spot but that isn't bad.
I like the dynamic resources. Simply setting up my PI systems and them never needing to change is kinda boring.
I like that I can stop programs when I need to without destroying 450k or so of equipment to do so. Sometimes I have things to do and can't be at the keyboard for restart. The ability to restart whenever is nice.
On the other hand, some of the cons are pretty heavy:
I am making less P0 than before, period. My planets were specialized to extract one type of P0 and converted into P1 and then exported to a factory planet for P2 production. I ran mostly on 5 hour cycles. On planets where I could easily make 700-800m3 per hour in P0, I now only make 600-700m3, or on some of the less gifted planets, I struggle to make 500-550m3. This is ok on some of my planets, because on one character there were limiting factors than only needed me to run 7 BIFs per planet. I can still make decent buffer on 5 hour cycles. The less endowed planets, with which there aren't many other good competitors ( I searched out most of my local region), I barely make half of what I did before. On two planets it was impossible to keep production going and I had to rebuild the colonies altogether, and I had to reduce the BIF number, cutting my profits by 12% on two characters ( This one, and the one that will be putting down command centers tomorrow). I may need to cut them down a bit more soon if things don't play out well with the resource distribution. Meanwhile everyone I know that operates on 24 hour cycles have increased production. I've lost 12-25% profits on two characters, spent around 10-15m on new facilities, and will soon loose 30m while I build buffer that was lost learning this. ( I understand this is irrelevant to the system at large, but I wanted to rant. )
The resource depletion is kinda crazy guys. Perfectly suitable hotspots are now worthless because they were isolated. Now the only option is plopping down on large patches of resources that everyone will want, while previously it was possible to set up shop on a small portion of a planet and still do really well.
Planetology and (A) Planetology actually have a use now ( kinda a complaint) . I like making things useful but at the same time these skills were kinda meh before. Good for picking out hotspots but not worth investing real time in. Even though I didn't go into them like some people did, the estimated production variation from actual production in some cases is crazy.
To summarize: Great presentation, the system is very intuitive, good job overall.
All I really hate is that On shorter 5 hour cycles it seems like I have an overall production loss, while people on longer cycles got a boost, and longer cycles doesn't make up for it because I still have to run 5 hour cycles a lot to keep up with previous production. I don't like the resource distribution too much either as moving your facilities continuously is financially impractical.
In all I will live to grow old; and I will still make decent enough money. ( Inflation of prices might actually increase profit. Losses are based on old numbers)
P.S. For those wondering, I do most of my PI in 0.1-0.2 sec space.
/ inb4 TL;DR
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.01.20 17:31:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ranja Jeemana
Originally by: Doctor Steinsbrow
if you're playing eve for PI, you're doing it wrong
Yeah? Tell that to the guy who's producing your T2 ships and parts and doing the massive amount of R&D on the blueprints to make the game run, because PI is almost certainly what is fueling his POS towers and labs, and providing the materials he needs to craft the ships you keep getting blown-up, ****-jockey.
Oh yeah, that guy is me, hi there. I depended on PI to make all of those things work, the change in PI has increased the cost in time to do PI effectively while reducing the output and requiring more time hauling and being present at your PI worlds to be efficient. PI was already a joke as far as profit and real utility - now it's just a sad joke.
The only ones not *****ing right now are the ones who were already bending over and doing the P0 -> P2 manufacturing planet hauls and getting ****d for 3 Launchpad charges per P2/P3 item made. Higher yield, but made a deeper cut into your personal time and profits. Now the lazy way of getting just enough to feed a couple of POS towers is removed, along with the ability to play the PI game how you want to.
Are you complaining about what you've chosen to do in EVE? Seriously? Whine whine I do manufacturing and make your POS fuels. Not like you don't earn isk or anything, or choose to do it when you could go be a pirate/PVPer/general troll like the rest of the population. 
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nihlanth
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.20 18:23:00 -
[104]
What's with all the whining? It was quite easy to reshuffle some buildings around to get the same production amount.
I extract 2 different materials per planet and have 2 advanced production plantets for the P2's.
I am able to support 8 advanced facilities on each of the two production planets, and only need to haul once a week (or less).
The only whine I have is that the hotspot decay should occur after a period of weeks/months, not mere days.
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Janna Shah
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Posted - 2011.01.20 19:55:00 -
[105]
AS far as I can see .. this is a totally new system .
The change favours specialisation and segregation into pure miners and specialist factories producing stuff . I dont even think it is possible ( power wise ) to both mine and to produce anything serious at the same time .
It has become impossible to extract all available minerals and at the same time process these into specialized stuff .. this has to be done sequentially = more time after the changes .
All in all this niche of Eve will demand far more WORK !
What I resent is that CCP announced this as an improvement and as more easy .. which apart from a slightly more slick interface for extraction in my opinion does not describe the change .. It will be far more difficult to get to the final end of production chains . For a Singleplayer without a lot of alts like me .. it will not pay of to attempt advanced production . Again .. as always THE SINGLE non Corp Player has been disfavoured . I wonder when CCP for once will come up with something for us individualists .. we are quite a lot of people !
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Wenzl
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Posted - 2011.01.20 21:18:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Ranja Jeemana
Originally by: Doctor Steinsbrow
if you're playing eve for PI, you're doing it wrong
Yeah? Tell that to the guy who's producing your T2 ships and parts and doing the massive amount of R&D on the blueprints to make the game run, ....
Couldn't agree more!!
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SirFur
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.01.20 21:47:00 -
[107]
There is a problem with the new system. I guess there are benefits too. I feel though that for those of us who didin't delve into PI hardcore and were part-timers have been affected worse off. For myself I run only a few planets but my objective was to create a system as efficient and as little work as possible, especially with regards to hauling. I ended up setting up several planets producing a full p3 item and others with p3 and p4. Whether this was more or less efficient it meant my only traveling was to haul p3 items to the appropriate p4 building planet and haul to market the p4.
Now my issue isn't with the new system as such and the new features. They apply to all and whether it was better or worse we have to adapt and use the new system. My concern is simply that I can no longer extract more than 3 p0 items from a single planet. It is of course more efficient to extract all your items on different planets and then produce on others but that has increased work now and forces us to use more planets as a result. It is no longer possible to produce a single p3 item on a single planet - now whether this was intentional I don't know but I guess the ease of the new system has been compensated by requiring us to use more planets and more travelling.
This of course refers to mainly I think the old systems' part timers in PI and guess for those who were already dedicated it saves time for them as hauling was a big feature for those guys anyway. Ah well, I will have to make p3 items now instead of p4 if I want to maintain my low level of time inputted into PI - I just don't have enough to spend more time in PI. Who knows - I may well earn MORE with the new system.
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Life is a Gift: Use it Wisely
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Wenzl
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Posted - 2011.01.20 22:31:00 -
[108]
Originally by: nihlanth
Edited by: nihlanth on 20/01/2011 18:28:14
What's with all the whining? It was quite easy to reshuffle some buildings around to get the same production amount.
I extract 2 different materials per planet and have 2 advanced production plantets for the P2's.
I am able to support 8 advanced facilities on each of the two production planets, and only need to haul once a week (or less).
The only whine I have is that the hotspot decay should occur after a period of weeks/months, not mere days.
The key point is that you only need 2/3 of the number of extracting points you had before, because the ECU itself takes up the remaining 1/3 of overall powergrid costs.
For instance, you used to have 6 extractors on a resource. With the new system, you replace those six extractors with ONE ECU and 4 extracting pins if you optimize the quality. You will be able to extract a very similar amount, or even more than before for the same powergrid usage.
Oh well, maybe that works for you. But in my case I extracted 4 resources with 12 extractors from one and the same planet that also had all the infrastructure on it to give me a P3 end result to collect regularly and sell at minimum cost plus use part of it for further production. û Now I can put no more than TWO (!!) extractors down and am looking at having to come up with a completely new production system.
All in all I have 6 different type planets involved that are finetuned to each other to produce two P4 items. All extract 4 resources and most of them are in conveniently in the same system (the rest no more than 2 jumps away). This change from 12 down to only 2 extractors means for me ripping down buildings, heavy costs to rebuild, and if I'm not that lucky I might have to relocate altogether. My business is dead, I have to start over from scratch and I am looking at massive costs to do so.
I have nothing against change, but in a case like mine, I would not exactly call this an improvement.....
What would you call that? Bad luck? Definitely. What else? Poor development planning from CCP and not enough thinking? Stuff the players, they can afford it? Who cares how much time and ISK anybody invested? I'm sure everybody can think of a few more things!
Like I said, I have no problem with change, but if it's a drastic change that may have all sorts of potentially VERY costly repercussions for different players, then there should also be some sort of compensation plan in place as well, wouldn't you agree?
(BTW, I have all PI skills and command centers at maximum levels)
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Mystagr
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: Tnas
So who's brilliant idea was it to make hot spots move?
-100 for that idea alone.
It's not a bad idea if it would work on a fair and sensible time scale. Like slowly diminishing over a period of many weeks, or several months. THAT would have been fine.
Oh did you hear about the new quarry they're setting up down the stree oh wait they already moved it. Riiiiggghhhttt.
This "change" s@cks
Why the PI miners (for PI is a kind of mining) have to disband and rebuilt extractors, factories and launchpads again and again for the resource they want?
What is the meaning of this nonsense?
Yes right, the mining head can change the resource that is currently mining but hey...who tells CCP that this is a good thing?
It's like mining for tritanium and suddenly you are forced to mine for pyerite.
Who had this idea?
And what he thought this "change" will do?
Surely not things better.
Just quit the "resource moving around" nonsense, how hard is it?
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Mystagr
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:03:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: Yusimicon
PI production is still in its infancy since Tyrannis was released (which was not too long ago). Give it time and all will be better.
But it WAS better. Now it is WORSE. Therefore, waiting isn't the answer. Screaming and screaming and screaming about it is, because the devs NEVER listen until the screaming reaches a certain threshold. People screamed about it on test server and not a single issue was addressed. The sad, sad state of operations at CCP.
Could not agree more.
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SirFur
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:09:00 -
[111]
You spoke my mind Wenzl.
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Life is a Gift: Use it Wisely
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:31:00 -
[112]
Looks like this whole set up was to help people have a reason to have alternates so they can macro/Bot haul... Thats the only ones i dont see complaining.
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