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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
   |
Posted - 2011.01.18 06:03:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Iamien on 18/01/2011 06:07:39
Looking at the newest in-game ad it seems CCP may have buried some highly-sought information in an extremely overpriced publication that few people can afford to subscribe to.
You know what to do.
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Blind Man
Caldari
Point Blank Carebears
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Posted - 2011.01.18 06:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Blind Man on 18/01/2011 06:06:59
INFO PLZ 
rant: I got the EON back order box for Christmas and I think I should should subscribe to eon because they are really nice. It just ticks me off that buying each issue individually is cheaper than a subscription (because of craziness with shipping costs..)
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.18 06:10:00 -
[3]
Why isn't there a digital edition for E-On for iPad or something?
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dkbjitawhore
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:18:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jada Maroo
Why isn't there a digital edition for E-On for iPad or something?
Well, they couldn't overcharge for it.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Royal Guardsmen
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:21:00 -
[5]
I'd also like to hear some info! I'm also one who would most probably buy a digital magazine.
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Sosus Red
Caldari
The Fallen Brotherhood
The Jagged Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:12:00 -
[6]
THe EON magazines are really really nice. Possibly the most high quality looking mag I've ever seen. That said, if more people subscribed, I think the price would come down. It's made by a small publishing house, they've got to make profit somehow. I actually think its pretty cool that a niche game like EVE has such a great fan magazine.
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.23 00:57:00 -
[7]
Bumping to renew the request.
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Syphon Lodian
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.23 01:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Syphon Lodian on 23/01/2011 01:06:04
I just got a rebate debit from a purchase I made a while ago, and since these things are notoriously difficult to use efficiently, I may just use it on some EON magazines, or something else from the EVE store.
(Actually, nevermind. Prices are absurd, and that's without shipping.)
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Mystic5hadow
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.23 01:39:00 -
[9]
I would also love it if somebody could post up scans of the pages relating to Incarna.
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 02:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mystic5hadow
I would also love it if somebody could post up scans of the pages relating to Incarna.
+1 or at the very least bullet-point the interesting facts.
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Syphon Lodian
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:14:00 -
[11]
Pretty sure article scans are not permitted, as is the case for most forums. Especially considering it's EVE's magazine.
Though, bullet points would be great.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:22:00 -
[12]
Absolutely hilarious.
CCP put all communication with the CSM under NDA.
Keep in mind CSM are torn between disbelief and disappointment on the severe and continuing lack of gameplay, content and features of Incarna after those communications as visible in the Minutes and on blogs, publications and posts by CSM members.
But CCP turn to EON and tell them everything there is. Which mirrors exactly the sentiment of CSM reports, with the addition of a little glossy wrapping 
Well well, that really says a bit about the challenges of Incarna and the CSM. Brilliant brand management. At least it shows the upcoming candidates for CSM 6 the best pressure spot and instrument to engage in the next time constructive criticism is unwanted, and mere media attention is desired.
This is even better than the lead game designer recently in an interview stating he only wants to do new things, but hey when customers shout so much, you give them rockets
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Sahara
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:22:00 -
[13]
Here's a quote from a different forum:
Quote:
A few couple of things made me lol. Here's a few quotes, text by Zapatero.
Quote:
Torfi Frans Olafsson [...] said recently that Incarna would transform EVE from being a spaceship game into 'the ultimate sci-fi world'.
Quote:
Aside from a few negative voices mumbling 'why bother' in the dark corners of the forum afterwards, the questions that have been on everyone's lips since CCP demonstrated its 'Walking in Stations' technology at Fanfest in 2006, have been along the lines of 'when will it be out?' and 'what will we be able to do when it is?'
Quote:
We know more about what we won't be able to do - the two mortal sins likely to involve running or trying to harm someone - that will be DUST 514's territory.
Quote:
Arnar [Zulu] [...] admits that it's taken a good year to 18 months to lay the foundations for what will eventually become the Summer 2011 expansion
Quote:
... EVE's new-and-improved avatars will come with baggage, with histories and contacts and an image to live up to. The people behind EVE's re-engineered capsuleers already exist, and have done, in many cases, for years. That adds weight to the already convincing assumption that players are going to have an easier time identifying with themselves and each other through their avatar than they ever did via their spaceships.
"That assumption and that knowledge drives us down the path of what the potential of Incarna is as a social tool ans as a new platform for trust relationships within EVE." says Arnar [Zulu]
Quote:
"The theme of what we're looking into for Incarna is called 'risky business'," says Arnar [Zulu]. "Smuggling, contraband, trading, black market, handling stolen goods... stuff like that. The things that you need to do 'off the grid', things you need to do without anyone else seeing."
Quote:
"Having the profession of a smuggler, of a contraband trader, of a black marketeer, in my opinion [Zulu], should be a vital aspect of EVE Online. I think through Incarna we'll be able to realize its full potential."
Quote:
"Current gameplay functionality that is available in space will still be available in space, but we'll extend on it into Incarna" [Zulu]
Quote:
The drive for CCP, it seems, is about augmenting the current market systems be expanding and developing EVE's shadow market. [that already exists through contact lists, forums and in-game conversations]
Quote:
"We are at the point of thinking about new items that would be solely tradable in stations. New things, potentially, like new boosters and implants - items that are highly prototypical, very risky and almost certainly illegal" [Zulu]
Quote:
"For the first stage of Incarna, we envisage what we call 'establishments'. These are basically slots in a station that will be fairly neutral. You can build bars in them, but you can also have them as your own humongous living quarters."
Quote:
"To me [Zulu] Incarna version 1.0 is not even close to the end of what Incarna will be. It's just the beginning, just as EVE in 2003 was the first step in a very long journey that we're close to eight years into. I see the exact same thing for Incarna".
TL;DR is that Incarna will be used for new professions in the theme of 'risky business' such as "Smuggling, contraband, trading, black market, handling stolen goods... stuff like that". CCP may make new items (boosters, implants, etc) that will only be able to be traded in a station 'off grid', but that won't be in place for Summer 2011.
Avatars means 'trust' and 'relationships' so they expect people to gamble on fleet battles and other stuff with trustworthy people acting as escrow holders/bookies :lolscams:.
No running. No decision on people collisions made yet. CCP seem to think their art teams will be the only people to make all future objects, so no Second Life-style designing planned.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: iP0D on 23/01/2011 02:53:41
Originally by: Sahara
Here's a quote from a different forum:
Quote:
A few couple of things made me lol. Here's a few quotes, text by Zapatero.
Torfi Frans Olafsson [...] said recently that Incarna would transform EVE from being a spaceship game into 'the ultimate sci-fi world'.
Torfi says a lot. I remember how PI was going to be awesome and immersive and would put an end to "spreadsheets in space". Media training is not a bad thing, repeating the same message all over each time gets old after 4+ years of scrapping the same stuff. Diminishes the value of the brand, ultimately.
Pretty accurate transcript from EON, what forum is that from?
Now keep in mind always less than half is delivered. And twice the presented package is marketed. And traditionally nothing is ever iterated on. Except now for PI this winter (with debatable results), which is required due to the Dust 514 commercial dependancies according to other interviews. Think I am beginning to understand the red flag of caution from the CSM.
It could be so great, in spite of all of it having been done before in other games, really so great. If only it built on EVE's own principles of sandbox, risks, rewards, tangible loss, and so forth. Players could do so much, and would do so much.
CCP once gave people freedom, choice, consequences of action and inaction, and look at what it has built. But now it seems we must adapt to the themepark in EVE. I can understand the commercial motivations, I can even see how that easily buys an innovation award, but it is not different. It is not awesome. and the risk exists that in this drive to only do new and shiny, it will simply no longer be EVE.
It's as if whoever is responsible for Incarna misses a subtle point. EVE is not cool, it's what you do in EVE that can be cool, or cruel, and that is what keeps us digging in. It's not a game, it's so much more than that.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/01/2011 02:54:49
No running?? What about jumping? 
I was hoping to read a bit more about gestures, poses, animations, lip sync, mini-games, proximity sound, voicecom in rooms, autorisations and whiteboards in corp offices, sitting and lying, NPCs, food + drinks, clothes, tattoo shops, implant traders, accessoires, windows, pets, music in bars ..
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iP0D
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
No running?? What about jumping?
What are you talking about. It's going to be awesome, you will see!
Cripes, the word "awesome" is starting to creep me out 
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.23 03:00:00 -
[17]
Two fail ideas there...
1. No running. What? Everybody has to walk everywhere? This isn't the local pool damnit!
2. Collision should be a given. You wan't realistic and ships in space don't often go through each other unless they are leaving station so why would people? Get a clue! |
Syphon Lodian
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.23 03:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Syphon Lodian on 23/01/2011 03:21:44
I'm cool with no running and jumping. So long as the walk animation is decent and possibly varied among different avatar choices. Also, a brisk pace, not walking down the catwalk or something.
Call me strange, but I think running sucks in MMOs. People need to slow the **** down and maybe take in their surroundings, enjoy others company and such.
And jumping? Seriously.. jumping? Yeah, if there is no jumping, I refuse to be ambulatory in EVE.  |
RIDDICK 0
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Posted - 2011.01.23 04:18:00 -
[19]
I want the option to C-walk as a brutor. |
JAG Fox
GunStars
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Posted - 2011.01.23 04:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: riddick 0
I want the option to C-walk as a brutor.
LOL. riddick, you're awesome! I would love to see that! |
Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 04:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: riddick 0
I want the option to C-walk as a brutor.
We were promised crip-walking in HTFU. So maybe we will be able to chose the gait our character uses. |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 04:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Two fail ideas there...
1. No running. What? Everybody has to walk everywhere? This isn't the local pool damnit!
2. Collision should be a given. You wan't realistic and ships in space don't often go through each other unless they are leaving station so why would people? Get a clue!
number 1 is basciay proof that there physics engine is stuck at the "First 10%" stage
as for number 2 developers find out the hard way that in multi player games one of last things they want is there greif and petetion que cloged up with "group X keeps making human walls and blocking off access" complaints. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 04:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 23/01/2011 05:00:23
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Two fail ideas there...
1. No running. What? Everybody has to walk everywhere? This isn't the local pool damnit!
2. Collision should be a given. You wan't realistic and ships in space don't often go through each other unless they are leaving station so why would people? Get a clue!
You must be new here.. so the touristy stuff is for you:
1) there will be elevators and travellators (chars running around every step they make looks just weird)
2) people will step aside or your char and the char on collision course will both turn their bodies half around.. same as you do if you try to go through a crowd of people
See, they got glue and glued it.
Rest of it, yeah.. sounds blown up.. again. We'll see, whine and ragequit once it's here.
Probably same story as always.. stuff gets posted as blog, then it lands on Sisi.. we provide feedback.. and some of the Devs stick their fingers into their ears and put cucumber onto their eyes.. then when it comes to TQ some of the features will have feedback provided bugs removed and others will suck badly.
I'm lovin' it not. |
Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 04:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
1. No running. What? Everybody has to walk everywhere? This isn't the local pool damnit!
2. Collision should be a given. You wan't realistic and ships in space don't often go through each other unless they are leaving station so why would people? Get a clue!
So you have pools and collision on your mind, lets put 2+2 together... |
Nemesis Factor
Caldari
Telanus' Reach
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Posted - 2011.01.23 05:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Two fail ideas there...
1. No running. What? Everybody has to walk everywhere? This isn't the local pool damnit!
2. Collision should be a given. You wan't realistic and ships in space don't often go through each other unless they are leaving station so why would people? Get a clue!
Its about the atmosphere. Go to a mall and see how many people are running between destinations. Given the option EVERYONE would run, and it would look stupid. |
RIDDICK 0
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 05:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nemesis Factor
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Two fail ideas there...
1. No running. What? Everybody has to walk everywhere? This isn't the local pool damnit!
2. Collision should be a given. You wan't realistic and ships in space don't often go through each other unless they are leaving station so why would people? Get a clue!
Its about the atmosphere. Go to a mall and see how many people are running between destinations. Given the option EVERYONE would run, and it would look stupid.
The are putting these walking platforms in the stations like the ones on the airports on earth. So it will be as fast as running when you are walking on one of the platforms.
Imagine C-walking on one of those, like c walking at the speed of light. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.23 05:39:00 -
[27]
I can't stand games where everyone runs everywhere. It kills immersion for me. |
Mystic5hadow
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 06:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I can't stand games where everyone runs everywhere. It kills immersion for me.
Same here. I'm personally happy they're not adding in the ability to run on stations.
A light sprint that lasts for a few seconds or so when holding down the shift key would be okay I think, if anything. But outright running consistently would definitely ruin the immersion. |
mkmin
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 06:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mystic5hadow
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I can't stand games where everyone runs everywhere. It kills immersion for me.
Same here. I'm personally happy they're not adding in the ability to run on stations.
A light sprint that lasts for a few seconds or so when holding down the shift key would be okay I think, if anything. But outright running consistently would definitely ruin the immersion.
That's one reason it bugs me when people bash console FPS's (sure the early ones kinda sucked noodles but still)... analog controls means analog movement speed. I guess we'll see how they handle movement, whether it's mouse or keyboard. Kinda wouldn't mind a mouse movement option and a form of autopilot, since it's looking like maneuverability won't be an issue with no combat. |
PTang
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 06:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: PTang on 23/01/2011 06:26:45
Quote:
overpriced publication that few people can afford to subscribe to
you must be really poor to not be able to afford 5 bucks a month.
in fact I only a year at time for eve which is 10 bucks a month, plus eon, so I don't pay anymore for EON plus my sub that you do if you pay by month.
hah
still, I bet you see books at borders for like 20$, and you're like, OMG EXPENSIVE!
Quote:
No decision on people collisions made yet
what do you mean? in the playable demo at fanfest the characters just turn side to side and made room or each other pass by automatically. |
James Giovanni
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 06:24:00 -
[31]
Originally by: iP0D
Absolutely hilarious.
CCP put all communication with the CSM under NDA.
Keep in mind CSM are torn between disbelief and disappointment on the severe and continuing lack of gameplay, content and features of Incarna after those communications as visible in the Minutes and on blogs, publications and posts by CSM members.
But CCP turn to EON and tell them everything there is. Which mirrors exactly the sentiment of CSM reports, with the addition of a little glossy wrapping
Well well, that really says a bit about the challenges of Incarna and the CSM. Brilliant brand management. At least it shows the upcoming candidates for CSM 6 the best pressure spot and instrument to engage in the next time constructive criticism is unwanted, and mere media attention is desired.
This is even better than the lead game designer recently in an interview stating he only wants to do new things, but hey when customers shout so much, you give them rockets
excuse me but they are just keeping CSM on the same level as their employees.
they release new info at fanfest and at EON, and just like thier empolyees, the CSM have to hold thier tongue.
besides we WANT the CSM to taking seriously don't we? or else they would lie about stuff, and just show them nothing under NDA. |
Weltact
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 11:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I can't stand games where everyone runs everywhere. It kills immersion for me.
Until they decide we have to go to some dungeon in the station to talk to our agents, or our captain's quarters for the market or get our ship repaired, etc. Now there's a killer for my immersion. Which is a very common pitfall for CCP, something new and awesome is figured out, got to make sure people use it otherwise it looks a bit meh and besides, nothing can be compelling anyway if it isn't enforced so let's make things required this and that way over a few expansions.
They better let us run, if we're going to have to walk around to agents.
|
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 11:50:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/01/2011 11:51:12
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I can't stand games where everyone runs everywhere. It kills immersion for me.
At least give Amarr the ability to be carried around by slaves then!
If slowly walking from hangar to bar is a just as time-consumingly sluggish activity as jumping 15 systems I'll get annoyed as hell!
I'm a bit disappointed that no-one seems to be interested in things like gestures, poses, facial expressions, animations, lip sync, mini-games, proximity sound, voicecom in rooms, autorisations and whiteboards in corp offices, sitting and lying, NPCs, food + drinks, clothes, tattoo shops, implant traders, accessoires, windows, pets, music in bars .. |
Lijhal
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 11:51:00 -
[34]
on the day where something similar like mass effect meets eve online, on this day, eve will become "the" ultimate game! |
Disteeler
Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:00:00 -
[35]
I'll leave a bit of the article:
"The theme of what we're looking into for Incarna is called 'risky business'," says Arnar [Zulu]. "Smuggling, contraband, trading, black market, handling stolen goods... stuff like that. The things that you need to do 'off the grid', things you need to do without anyone else seeing."
|
hired goon
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:11:00 -
[36]
If I bought this magazine, I wouldn't scan it and put it here. It would be like throwing my sunday roast to the dogs. If you are excited about Incarna, you will buy the mag and support a great indy publisher. If you are the kind of person who is complaining about not having the info for free, you are likely the kind of cynic who is just going to **** all over the information anyway, the same way most of you are already doing in this thread.
The thing that gets me is how you think you are all such experts on something you don't even have access to the information for. |
Cailais
Amarr
Ukomi Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Iamien
Edited by: Iamien on 18/01/2011 06:07:39
Looking at the newest in-game ad it seems CCP may have buried some highly-sought information in an extremely overpriced publication that few people can afford to subscribe to.
You know what to do.
Yup I have the information right here. I know exactly what to do.
Not give it to you.
C.
|
TeaDaze
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:27:00 -
[38]
CCP fed fluff information about Incarna to Eon and PC gamer along with their hopes and dreams for where it might be in a couple of years. The actual state of Incarna is under tight NDA because it doesn't match most people's expectations (don't make assumptions based on a fanfest demo 2+ years ago). It is convenient for publicity to allow the players to speculate about what Incarna will provide.
The reaction from the people on the CSM looking forward to Incarna was one of disbelief and disappointment. I would love to explain why, but I can't due to :NDA: |
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:31:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/01/2011 12:31:39
Originally by: TeaDaze
(..) don't make assumptions based on a fanfest demo 2+ years ago (..) The reaction from the people on the CSM looking forward to Incarna was one of disbelief and disappointment. I would love to explain why, but I can't due to :NDA:
/me cries in utter disappointment * 
So I guess the half-life engine will be best to make Clear Skies like fan vids for the coming 5 years .. great (not)! |
Cailais
Amarr
Ukomi Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: TeaDaze
CCP fed fluff information about Incarna to Eon and PC gamer along with their hopes and dreams for where it might be in a couple of years. The actual state of Incarna is under tight NDA because it doesn't match most people's expectations (don't make assumptions based on a fanfest demo 2+ years ago). It is convenient for publicity to allow the players to speculate about what Incarna will provide.
The reaction from the people on the CSM looking forward to Incarna was one of disbelief and disappointment. I would love to explain why, but I can't due to :NDA:
Let me guess. Its restricted to the captains quaters in terms of environment. Avatars look approximate to the char generator and can walk about.
And thats it.
C.
|
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 13:04:00 -
[41]
I still wonder if it wouldn't be better to pay for expansions so we at least get something more decent!!!
CCP WTF is this!!  |
Yauna
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 14:09:00 -
[42]
TBH, i don't see what all the fuss is about. I's been a long time since we last got any proper footage of Incarna, so it's only natural that people start to dream up "What will be". Of cource Incarna today is not going to match up with peoples expectations because it's likely so diferent.
Now correct me if i'm wrong, but i haven't seen any posts by CCP stating that the initial release of Incarna would be anything other than a very basic template. I beleive the integration of two game engines inside the same game is a very dificult task, so honestly i don't expect it to be that overwhealming when it is first released. What i am curious about is wether or not CCP intends to expand farther on Incarna after the initial release, as they said they would back in... when ever it was they said they would.
I can understand the need for NDAs, but some more info would be nice to help ease the hearts and minds of your paying customers...  |
Boma Airaken
White Song
Celestial Imperative
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 14:42:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sosus Red
THe EON magazines are really really nice. Possibly the most high quality looking mag I've ever seen. That said, if more people subscribed, I think the price would come down. It's made by a small publishing house, they've got to make profit somehow. I actually think its pretty cool that a niche game like EVE has such a great fan magazine.
The problem is that the magazine is more expensive than the ****ing game you ****ing jackwagon. Not going to happen. |
Viqer Fell
Minmatar
M. Corp
M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:05:00 -
[44]
To hear from someone that is in the know that they are that disappointed over what Incarna will be is saddenning.
I hate the whole concept of Incarna and have been against it from the start but still I know many people are eager for it. I think the reason I am so against Incarna is that I just don't think that CCP will be able to provide the scope of environment and variety of features that I think it needs to be good.
And to be clear I don't think any company could currently provide it not just CCP. Incarna needs to be too grande too large too immersive for anyone to get close to it. |
Zora
Gallente
Vector Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:15:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Zora on 23/01/2011 15:16:35
One of the things they mention in the latest EON is that they've been thinking hard about which roles (read: mini-professions) they could make for Incarna.
And, what I find interesting, they want to introduce professions like smuggler/black market traders with certain items which can only be traded in station, in certain back-alleys or something (think advanced illegal drugs aka boosters).
No further detail is given, but they seem to want to shift some market mechanics to Incarna, which I find interesting.
Apart from that, the known stuff like being able to build your own environments (bars, offices, etc.) in reserved areas of each station is still on the plan.
Also, v1.0 will be having limited content but they will be expanding it over time. Probably they will set up the basic framework with v1.0, and then deliver additional assets in the coming months. |
hired goon
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:19:00 -
[46]
I think you should all give CCP the chance of releasing it before forming your stupid ignorant opinions, and not just rely on one CSM guy saying "I was disappoint". Maybe the NDA is there because CCP know they can work their butts off and present something amazing in the summer. If that's the case, what would the point be in releasing videos and info in its current state except to turn people completely off it? If Incarna is released in the summer and is better than anyone expected, and as good as CCP say, won't you all be eating your words? I know damn well for sure I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can link back to it and make you all look like idiots.
However, if it's released and you're all right, and it's a steaming load, I will be right there next to you with my pitchfork. But probably just chanting something like "you should have taken longer on this" |
ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:38:00 -
[47]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 23/01/2011 15:39:30
Actually by now I¦m resigned to Incarna sucking. I just hope it will not inconvenience us too much.
Things like walking to your agents or over to the dock for refitting, etc. 
I really hope they will talk about this on Fanfest and that the crowd will tear their heads off for crappy ideas like that.
Could be the very first fest without a constant CCP rulz atmosphere. |
Vorqoth
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:50:00 -
[48]
I was at least expecting to be able to go to bars and play that "boardgame" with a friend.
They show early builds at fanfests with huge stations, bars, games, and then say "remember this isnt finished".
We wait a few years, expect them to work on it and create even more content, but when its released none of that is even available, all we have is captains quarters where we can change clothes.
I so hope it wont be like that. Its like taking a kid to a toystore and show him all the fun stuff and then just leave, not cool. |
Iraherag
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zora
Edited by: Zora on 23/01/2011 15:22:55
Edited by: Zora on 23/01/2011 15:16:35
One of the things they mention in the latest EON is that they've been thinking hard about which roles (read: mini-professions) they could make for Incarna.
And, what I find interesting, they want to introduce professions like smuggler/black market traders with certain items which can only be traded in station, in certain back-alleys or something (think advanced illegal drugs aka boosters).
No further detail is given, but they seem to want to shift some market mechanics to Incarna, which I find interesting.
Apart from that, the known stuff like being able to build your own environments (bars, offices, etc.) in reserved areas of each station is still on the plan.
Also, v1.0 will be having limited content but they will be expanding it over time. Probably they will set up the basic framework with v1.0, and then deliver additional assets in the coming months.
I think no one objects to continuing work on something after the initial release.
It's just that past experience tell us that the initial release tends to be quite severely limited, not even close to what has been marketed (eg Tyrannis: "Rule mercilessly on planets everywhere in New Eden" VS "place structures, create routes, click submit; don't settle on planets in Jita, Sankkasen, Amarr, ...") and that continued development takes rather years than months. |
Zora
Gallente
Vector Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vorqoth
I was at least expecting to be able to go to bars and play that "boardgame" with a friend.
They show early builds at fanfests with huge stations, bars, games, and then say "remember this isnt finished".
We wait a few years, expect them to work on it and create even more content, but when its released none of that is even available, all we have is captains quarters where we can change clothes.
I so hope it wont be like that. Its like taking a kid to a toystore and show him all the fun stuff and then just leave, not cool.
Where did you get the information that it won't have that? As far as I can tell (and judging from the EON interview) all of that will be there.
Just maybe with fewer chair models to place, and less variety than most people would "wish" for. Best to just wait and be suprised what we'll get |
Vorqoth
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Zora
Where did you get the information that it won't have that? As far as I can tell (and judging from the EON interview) all of that will be there...
...
Originally by: TeaDaze
... The actual state of Incarna is under tight NDA because it doesn't match most people's expectations (don't make assumptions based on a fanfest demo 2+ years ago). It is convenient for publicity to allow the players to speculate about what Incarna will provide...
Just like the "new" NeoCom we never got. |
Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:12:00 -
[52]
TL:DR;
Incarna as seen on video demo's was nothing short of a very fancy tech demo with heavy placeholders of high quality. It was a tech demo of a single player game with none of the heavy back-end for multiplayer. The Incarna (with all the sexy latex women and dancers)
demo was simply heavily scripted and a view of "what could be" instead of "what we've done so far". What they've done sofar is probably 1/30th of what you saw in the tech demo. Either that or they have everything ready and are increasing the amount of crap so they can do so called staggered releases as things "finish" so they can all be slackers for a couple months. I'm going for the 1st one though and yes, i too was someone looking forward to Incarna RELEASE...not anymore though as it's all wax statue made to look like marble and diamonds. Just don't hold your breath whatever you hope for. |
TeaDaze
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vorqoth
Just like the "new" NeoCom we never got.
No, we (CSM) actually saw a working live demo of the New NeoCom. |
dkbjitawhore
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Vorqoth
Just like the "new" NeoCom we never got.
No, we (CSM) actually saw a working live demo of the New NeoCom.
As did everyone that played on the test server the day before patchday.
Apparently it was removed due to a potential exploit. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sahara
Quote:
"The theme of what we're looking into for Incarna is called 'risky business'," says Arnar [Zulu]. "Smuggling, contraband, trading, black market, handling stolen goods... stuff like that. The things that you need to do 'off the grid', things you need to do without anyone else seeing."
Blech. To stay with the RPG aspect of things for a moment, I want to go to the mall, and do in-station shopping! :) I want to accessorize! I want to find and buy me cute outfits! And I want to dress up my personal (non-gankable) station quarters.
I also want to have corp meetings, where we can interact with other corp members.
"Smuggling, contraband, trading, black market, handling stolen goods," yada, yada, yada, that could honestly be fun too (I get a sort of good Babylon 5 feel here). |
Iraherag
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:10:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
"Smuggling, contraband, trading, black market, handling stolen goods," yada, yada, yada, that could honestly be fun too (I get a sort of good Babylon 5 feel here).
Just think about how "tyranny on planets" was implemented and now try to imagine how dealing with contraband could look like:
Your character walks over to a dark corner...
sits down in the shadow...
...
and then you see some lists, icons and a bit of text... |
Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:44:00 -
[57]
Too much pessimism here about Incarna.
Be it 3D captains quarters, test-bed for WoD, or fully featured part of EVE, it will be something - I'll probably like it.
As long as they don't take Sec Wars out (which I doubt, they bought a license from O'Connor). |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 18:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zora
Also, v1.0 will be having limited content but they will be expanding it over time. Probably they will set up the basic framework with v1.0, and then deliver additional assets in the coming months.
You mean sorta like they did with all the content missing from Tyrannis? |
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 19:12:00 -
[59]
Originally by: hired goon
I think you should all give CCP the chance of releasing it before forming your stupid ignorant opinions, and not just rely on one CSM guy saying "I was disappoint". Maybe the NDA is there because CCP know they can work their butts off and present something amazing in the summer.
Well it's just disturbing that:
1) the fanfest was showing customizable bars, offices, long coats and other stuff;
2) the interview seems to show that they want to make part 1 of Incarna just a "smuggling mini-game";
3) a CSM representative is massively dispappointed with the current state of Incarna;
4) WiS was initially to be released dec 2010.
If summer 2011 just gets us a contraband mini-game (like PI is just a mini-game, nothing revolutionary imo) when will we get something that caters the RPers among us? Will there anything else in stations except illegal boosters at all before winter 2011/2012?
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 19:34:00 -
[60]
From the general lack of resource devoted to EvE and the end of White Wolfs print games I. Get the feeling all available resources are being thrown at the WoD MMO. From what e t hearing about Incarna I get the feeling that it will be an earkyvalph test for the WoD MMO and that WoD is eating so many resources because it is in deep technical trouble. Basically every mmo but EvE and WoW has ended up flopping. CCP may be finding out that it is quite hard to get lighning o strike twice.
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ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 10:49:00 -
[61]
Actually IRC almost the whole Iceland crew is dedicated to EVE, the complete Atlanta branch is working on WoD while the Shanghai branch is exclusively developing Dust.
So that means CCP is working on three games simultaneously.
Of course the Devs are hot for the new games, even in Iceland there have a team working on WoD, and meanwhile the old cash-cow EVE is getting upgraded with WoD features.
I don¦t want to even speculate what this game would look like, if all three branches would work on the EVE-space game exclusively.
______________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 10:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
I don¦t want to even speculate what this game would look like, if all three branches would work on the EVE-space game exclusively.
Probably the same since they most likely wouldn't be able to raise the funding to run three offices without three products, so the whole thing would just collapse back into the Iceland office.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 21:21:00 -
[63]
Wow, you¦re even more pessimistic than I am.
So you think CCP raised funds(aka made debt with banks) promising the development of two additional games? So that means that if those games flop CCP almost certainly goes under, as paying for two additional branches surely cost quite a penny.
Well I hope CCP didn¦t go to the banks and indebted the whole company for the corporate expansion. And is instead paying for it with the EVE-Space cash cow. Thus if those two additional branches would¦ve actually worked on EVE this whole time we definitely would have a very different game at hand.
Just imagine the whole Shanghai office working on PI instead of the 6 or 5 by now dudes and dudettes we got now.
______________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 21:40:00 -
[64]
This thread does not bode well, but i'm not giving up on it until the fanfest info.
Also, Teadaze seems to be a little new at the whole NDA thing. You're not safe as long as you don't say anything specific. If i were a CCP dev i'd be steamed at you after this.
Sincerely,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
mkmin
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 21:42:00 -
[65]
Edited by: mkmin on 24/01/2011 21:44:14
In reply to some of the posts before
-If they don't have anything substantial to show us now, then CCP screwed up royally. They've been working on it for 3 years at the expense of EVE-space. If they don't have anything after 3 years, a 6 month sprint isn't going to yield anything.
-Releasing it with no content and relying on the promise of "will be iterated on" is dumb. Iterated on just like COSMOS? Just like FW? Just like sov? Just like T3 frigs and BSes? CCP has a long habit and policy of putting up structures with little to no content. Expect empty stations where we can all stand around staring at each other blankly.
-It's not that information is under NDA. It's that the team in charge of Incarna actively and aggressively refused to talk to the CSM or show up for their scheduled meetings. They didn't want to release even to the CSM how screwed up Incarna is right now.
-CCP has a history of making their stuff nobody wants to use natively mandatory. Original statements were that incarna would not be mandatory but they've gone back on their word before. Imagine dock -> walk 15 minutes -> talk to your mission agent (possibly getting charged a microtransaction? Why not?) -> walk 15 minutes to fitting service -> walk another 15 minutes back to your hangar -> time between docking and undocking when missioning being 1 hour. But hey, at least you got to do it through a "pretty" station through crowds of people at 2 FPS.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 22:12:00 -
[66]
That is really depressing.
Imagine where EVE could be right now if we had not 2-3 underwhelming expansion but state of the art stuff and groundbreaking new gamedesign. Instead we got boring clickfests and stuff that stuff that is/was seen elsewhere already (just the surroundings are/were different).
It looks really not well for Incarna right now.
Maybe CCP should have a close eye on the leading game designer since they are responsible for the underwhelming expansion.
And what is with the tons and tons of UNFINISHED stuff. We got promised (for some stuff years ago!) that this will be closely watched and iterated, that it will act as framework for lots of awesomeness. And? What happened? NOTHING. All still unfinished. Instead we got more unfinished and half broken stuff.
How long until CCP wakes up and DELIVERS EXCELLENCE?
EVE could be already so much better. Don't waste great opportunities in the future, there won't be too many opportunities like Incarna. Do it right, delay it if necessary, but don't release it as a lifeless framework that was just slapped together without any love or enthusiasm. |
Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 06:04:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Gnulpie
That is really depressing.
Imagine where EVE could be right now if we had not 2-3 underwhelming expansion but state of the art stuff and groundbreaking new gamedesign. Instead we got boring clickfests and stuff that stuff that is/was seen elsewhere already (just the surroundings are/were different).
It looks really not well for Incarna right now.
Sometimes I don't understand either. Are they understaffed because there's so much people working on other projects? How much EVE subscription money goes to their two other projects at all, or is it financed by investors, or could there be twice the amount of devs working on EVE if CCP hadn't taken up those side-projects?
Calling one expansion after some minor clickfest mini-game is hardly worth the name expansion. I had hoped for some real planetary interaction instead of a variation on moon harvesting. Think of planet-bases stations, ready to be walked in when Incarna came. Flying in atmospheres. Trade hubs/outposts on planets. You name it. Not just a clickfest.
Incursisons are an automated live event like thing. How hard is it to let some ships with (existing) improved AI randomly spawn from time to time and add ONE new ship? Is it what a full team of devs is working on for 6 months? And yes a new character creator - which will be used for WoD anyway and are just pictures for the time being.
And now Incarna will be about contraband and smugglers and boosters and stolen goods, actually something pretty new, I wonder though why this was neccessary?! Well if we at least can walk in stations (even without smuggling) and seeing my in-game friends I'm already ok with it since I yearn to get out of my pod!
"Im not nearly as paranoid as people think I am" |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 06:10:00 -
[68]
Originally by: dkbjitawhore
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Vorqoth
Just like the "new" NeoCom we never got.
No, we (CSM) actually saw a working live demo of the New NeoCom.
As did everyone that played on the test server the day before patchday.
Apparently it was removed due to a potential exploit.
Nothing potential about it.
To be blunt Axing the "Beta" neocon was literaly the smarted thing they have done in the history of CCP
|
Lagn Gita
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 08:11:00 -
[69]
no idea why people are even looking forward to WIS. people seem to have these grand ideas about what it will be but never put any thought into how it would actually play out in game. of course that is CCP's main issue with every new feature and people keep eating it up.
my guess as to what the major issue is...i bet its heavily instanced. like, see no other people instanced.
|
ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 10:19:00 -
[70]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 25/01/2011 10:19:34
Well it¦s kinda instanced by definition. Every station will probably get an own process.
For a second I speculated that CCP won¦t do the same error as in the space part.
Meaning cramming a whole system into one process, shackled to one core, but who am I kidding.
______________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 10:27:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: dkbjitawhore
Originally by: TeaDaze
Apparently it was removed due to a potential exploit.
Nothing potential about it.
To be blunt Axing the "Beta" neocon was literaly the smarted thing they have done in the history of CCP
Agreed.
People see new shiny thing and that little apebrain just gotsa have it.
What concerns me the most is though that it was an exploit that axed the thing.
And not the general design error they already committed with the current "right-click" fest UI.
For anybody who has no clue: YOU DON¦T MAKE A GAME LOOK LIKE YOUR WORKSPACE!
Making EVE look like Win95/XP/7? Frack NO! 
______________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 18:53:00 -
[72]
I think they already decided that the UI change was not working how they wanted it to work in the first place, the exploit (which from a pure math pov was not realy that serious of an exploit, just enough of one that bascialy you had to use the new ui and put up with the bugs with it) was just the iceing on the cake.
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PTang
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 19:03:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Cathy Drall
Edited by: Cathy Drall on 25/01/2011 06:14:22
Originally by: Gnulpie
That is really depressing.
Imagine where EVE could be right now if we had not 2-3 underwhelming expansion but state of the art stuff and groundbreaking new gamedesign. Instead we got boring clickfests and stuff that stuff that is/was seen elsewhere already (just the surroundings are/were different).
It looks really not well for Incarna right now.
Sometimes I don't understand either. Are they understaffed because there's so much people working on other projects? How much EVE subscription money goes to their two other projects at all, or is it financed by investors, or could there be twice the amount of devs working on EVE if CCP hadn't taken up those side-projects?
eve is 100% privately funded, no stocks and such.
Now as to if they are understaffed, there are two big points you are missing.
1.CCP have 40 people working on in space stuff right now. (including PI) so lets say 33. This is still far more than when I joined eve and the whole company had 20 people working. And that means a lot fo them didn't work on eve.
there were HUGE expansions back then, with capital ships and BAttlecruisers (yes I still remember the expansions that brought battlecruisers to the game)
now that said, while those expansions brought a lot a change to the game, it was change within scope of space. Meaning there were no new mechanics, just new modules, new ships, new skills.
The last 4 expansions have been, at least 4 times larger in scope and delivery than the old expansions. You might think "meh" and the character creator, but that is 3 expansions wroth of work on it's own if compared to the older much more game changing the expansions of eve past.
you say eve is not coming closer to ultimate sci-fi sim, but it is getting there 100% faster than it did for the 1st 6 expansions. And back then things were not always "excellence"
in 12 months, eve will shifts to super expanding on everything allready in eve.
You just aren't happy with whats been done, don't get that confused with how much work is being done. Eve is changing faster than it ever has, and has more people working on tha at any point in the past (other than the wormhole expansion which was an epic 5 months push of 300 employees going f***ings nuts)
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Cyaxares II
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 20:39:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 20:44:42
Originally by: PTang
eve is 100% privately funded, no stocks and such.
lol
Of course there are a number of shareholders in CCP, one of them being Mr. Bjorgolfsson who has essentially pawned his shares to the consortium of banks he owes almost 10m dollar.
CCP also took out a massive bank loan in 2007 ($30m bank loan at an annual revenue of $26m in 2006, $37m in 2007 and total assets of $49m in 2007).
CCP issued 1.25b ISK in 1-year bonds on the OMX Nordic Exchange in 2007 (ISIN: IS0000015253) and rolled over 1.23b ISK into 1-year bonds running from 2008 to 2009 (ISIN: IS0000018331) on NASDAQ OMX.
In 2009 CCP did apparently get a little more secretive:
Quote:
NASDAQ OMX Iceland hf. has received a formal confirmation that the terms of CCP
09 0728 have been changed, cf. an announcement from CCP hf. dated July 28,
2009. The instrument has therefore been removed from the Observation List.
here's an overview of CCP's finances in 2008 - sadly I haven't found any more up-to-date information.
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.01.25 21:17:00 -
[75]
I have convinced myself that Incarna will be released earlier than winter 2012, in case that it is released at all. I read the UK Gamer magazine and, well, they where talking about five years. That is, Incarn amy be flu-fledged by 2015. Meanwhile, look at the new character creator. It's a gorgeous frame, a magnificent structure, but it lacks a whole truckload of content as to justify its technical magnificence.
Of course, creating the technical frame for anythign is the hardest aprt, whereas adding new stuff is relatively easy. The first CGFX were horribly expensive, now everyone cna afford some CGFX in its film.
Well, we got Carbon. It's a powerful technology, but now it lacks a reason ot exist. The reason, the content, will be added, hopefully, later on. But VERY later on. Incarna summer 2011? Sorry but no, sirs. We have seen how long it has taken to make Carbon generator work... and you've delivered us an empty shell. In no way CCP will be able to have incarna up and running in six months. No way. My bet is that this is what CSM saw. None of them will see Incarna work before their mandate expires. Neither the next CSM will, maybe. 2011 will NOT be Incarna year.
I am fine with it. In winter 2012, Incarna will be alive. It's a realistic goal. Meanwhile, provide us Lvl4 carebears a few dozens of new missions, please. And stop offending our intelligence with impossible timelines.
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