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Why no Incursion sites for beginner players?

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Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:11:00 - [1] I'm a level 3 mission runner, and I can only go for 50.000 ISK sites or nowhere. Or I have to wait 1-2-3 months to train for Vanguards... Why CCP forget players around 3-10 million SP? There should be a new incursion stage below Vanguard and above the first. Maybe restricted to battlecruisers or something.
Asurymen	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:11:00 - [2] No
Mister Cletus	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:13:00 - [3] Yes. Incursion is badly broken as it is, so why not?
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:13:00 - [4] Originally by: Asurymen No Why not?
Asurymen	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:15:00 - [5] High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:15:00 - [6] There should be incursion for players who have 2,1-2,2 mil sp as well
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:17:00 - [7] there should be incursions for noob ships and shuttles and pods _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time.
Asurymen	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time. Why should CCP make an easier section because you can't be bothered working towards a T2 tank? Like I said, you want to run Incursions, work towards it, like you do with everything else.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:20:00 - [10] I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:24:00 - [11] Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/01/2011 15:24:42 We have level 4 missions for beginners to try out their ships with. After that they should do Red vs Blue or Faction Warfare for a month, and then only then they should be ready to be an integrated part in a lean mean incursion smashing machine. Originally by: HeIIfire11 I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them. A looting / salvaging opportunity?
Galdoson	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Asurymen To get there, you have to work for it. Err wrong! What work? what you talking about? You mean wait for the skill tree to grow? And yes incursion as totaly left out anyone with less then a few million skill points, and what with the resist/fire-power nerfs these sites give you, its like taking away a few months of training, ya good idea CCP, a game thats all about skills you remove them! what the hell are you on?
Asurymen	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/01/2011 15:24:42 We have level 4 missions for beginners to try out their ships with. After that they should do Red vs Blue or Faction Warfare for a month, and then only then they should be ready to be an integrated part in a lean mean incursion smashing machine. Originally by: HeIIfire11 I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them. A looting / salvaging opportunity? What he said
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Asurymen Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time. Why should CCP make an easier section because you can't be bothered working towards a T2 tank? Like I said, you want to run Incursions, work towards it, like you do with everything else. I try to explain: Imagine a player who is 2-5 month old, runs level 3 missions with battlecruiser. (For example me). Maybe he has T2 guns or tank, maybe he is just at the start of doing level 3's. The first stage incursion site is too easy for that player, but for the 2nd (Vanguard), he needs to train months. Imagine that player has not so much friends, he can't be useful in lots of corps (where ratting BS and things like that needed). So if there would be an incursion stage for that kind of players, they can train feet-fights, make friends, and learn group play, and they will be more trained when they reach the requirements to join a 0.0 corp or something. Sory for my english, I hope u got what I'd like to say.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:27:00 - [15] Just group up with some other newish players and you should be fine with Vanguards I believe. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:28:00 - [16] To new players, there is plenty of PVE content for you, that is, all pve content until now. To those who think skill points = success at incursions, please fleet me, I want to loot your ships. Best regards, Apollo Gabriel
Meg Deminer	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:31:00 - [17] I agree with the OP. At the very least I would expect CCP to be able to give a valid reason why this has been done - not the irreverant ramblings of forum trolls. I have to admit I wasnt even aware that there was a skill requirement to be able to enjoy of the content.
Salliene Gallente Cowboys and Beach Bums	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Asurymen Why should CCP make an easier section because you can't be bothered working towards a T2 tank? Like I said, you want to run Incursions, work towards it, like you do with everything else. Yes, you need to go through the brutal training process of clicking on "Train Skill Now" for a few months before you will be personally experienced and good enough to do an Incursion site. The OP has a point, there is no reason (other than content designer time priorities) that there could not be CHALLENGING and DIFFICULT incursion sites for newer players. It's all just a matter of scaling down the damage output and entry requirements for the sites. You all sound like WoW players. "Stop making Deadmines more fun and focus on the level 85+ stuff!!"
Asurymen	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Lyndsey Love I try to explain: Imagine a player who is 2-5 month old, runs level 3 missions with battlecruiser. (For example me). Maybe he has T2 guns or tank, maybe he is just at the start of doing level 3's. The first stage incursion site is too easy for that player, but for the 2nd (Vanguard), he needs to train months. Imagine that player has not so much friends, he can't be useful in lots of corps (where ratting BS and things like that needed). So if there would be an incursion stage for that kind of players, they can train feet-fights, make friends, and learn group play, and they will be more trained when they reach the requirements to join a 0.0 corp or something. Sory for my english, I hope u got what I'd like to say. Incursions arent meant to be a land of skipping bunny rabbits where you go to make friends, learn how a fleet works, and make yourself feel that little bit more important because you ran an Incursion site. There are plenty of PvE elements in Eve where you can do that, heck, go find a WH corp that's recruiting, that actually ticks all the boxes!
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time. You can manage vanguards in BCs with modest t1 named/t2/faction fits, assuming you have with competent players with you i don't think it's needed _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Matalino	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Imagine that player has not so much friends. For incursions, you don't need to be a vetern player, but you do need friends. Incursions are group content. If you are not in a group you will fail. Group + Trust = Friends. If you want solo PvE content stick to missions. Solo incursions = kill sansha's missions.
Uozi Gallente SUBX Missions Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Asurymen Originally by: Lyndsey Love I try to explain: Imagine a player who is 2-5 month old, runs level 3 missions with battlecruiser. (For example me). Maybe he has T2 guns or tank, maybe he is just at the start of doing level 3's. The first stage incursion site is too easy for that player, but for the 2nd (Vanguard), he needs to train months. Imagine that player has not so much friends, he can't be useful in lots of corps (where ratting BS and things like that needed). So if there would be an incursion stage for that kind of players, they can train feet-fights, make friends, and learn group play, and they will be more trained when they reach the requirements to join a 0.0 corp or something. Sory for my english, I hope u got what I'd like to say. Incursions arent meant to be a land of skipping bunny rabbits where you go to make friends, learn how a fleet works, and make yourself feel that little bit more important because you ran an Incursion site. There are plenty of PvE elements in Eve where you can do that, heck, go find a WH corp that's recruiting, that actually ticks all the boxes! Well, the thing is, the expansion comes to draw in new players.. We recently parted ways with the month or so of practicing how to practice efficiently (learning skills). Now a new roadblock has been setup. What would take the enjoyment out of your game, if they were to include an extra set of sites that suite those needs in between? No one was talking about making the other sites easier. I think it is a great idea! (though I will probably not be using it)
D'Leh Mannuck	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:51:00 - [23] Thing is that when incursions for newer players get's introduced what would keep high skilled people from running them?
Ayieka	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:55:00 - [24] There wouldnt be any fear factor if the incursions were meant to be fought off by anyone.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Salliene You all sound like WoW players. "Stop making Deadmines more fun and focus on the level 85+ stuff!!" Sshhhhh.... If WoW players think we have low end content they might all come over here. Just imagine EvE with 7 million people logged on at the same time. The fire in CCP's server room might burn down all of Iceland. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:06:00 - [26] Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck Thing is that when incursions for newer players get's introduced what would keep high skilled people from running them? The same thing that keeps high skilled people from running level 1 missions.
Ieva Ibori	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:09:00 - [27] Please make incursion sites for Hulks.... We mine them to death!
Tsetra	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:13:00 - [28] Why should you be able to run lots of Incursion sites while you are still young? Being able to do everything within the first few months in EVE will make for a very boring and probally short lived stay in EVE since there is nothing for you to do when you are skilled up... NO you should not be handed everything on a plate. YES you should have to WORK towards some things.
Salliene Gallente Cowboys and Beach Bums	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Tsetra NO you should not be handed everything on a plate. YES you should have to WORK towards some things. But there's really not much work involved, is there? Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Yay! I'm good enough now!
Glyken Touchon Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Ieva Ibori Please make incursion sites for Hulks.... We mine them to death! I refer you to the Nation Mining Colony Originally by: journal Forces Required: 5 - 10 pilots Military Intelligence: Your primary objective is to destroy the SanshaÆs Nation battle station. Clearing the area of hostile forces should decloak the NationÆs ore refinery. Mine the local Lyavite asteroids and transport the ore to the refinery. The chain reaction caused by refining the explosive ore will tear the battle station apart.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Salliene But there's really not much work involved, is there? Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Yay! I'm good enough now! Dude you just smashed hopes of all the nerds that they accomplished something, how very cruel of you!
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Salliene But there's really not much work involved, is there? Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Three months later... Yay! I'm good enough now! Fixed
The Archetect	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:34:00 - [33] Considering Incursion is focused on Capital expansion.... Why would they make it for beginners?..
D'Leh Mannuck	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Archbeholder Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck Thing is that when incursions for newer players get's introduced what would keep high skilled people from running them? The same thing that keeps high skilled people from running level 1 missions. Rofl, asif high skilled people all go look for the hardest possible gameplay. It's not about skill, it's about the fact there are people who will always look for the easiest way out.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:47:00 - [35] I really doubt that you cannot run these incursions with a fleet. There is ALWAYS a place for new pilots in a fleet. Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
Doddy Burning Vendetta	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:54:00 - [36] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Asurymen Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time. Why should CCP make an easier section because you can't be bothered working towards a T2 tank? Like I said, you want to run Incursions, work towards it, like you do with everything else. I try to explain: Imagine a player who is 2-5 month old, runs level 3 missions with battlecruiser. (For example me). Maybe he has T2 guns or tank, maybe he is just at the start of doing level 3's. The first stage incursion site is too easy for that player, but for the 2nd (Vanguard), he needs to train months. Imagine that player has not so much friends, he can't be useful in lots of corps (where ratting BS and things like that needed). So if there would be an incursion stage for that kind of players, they can train feet-fights, make friends, and learn group play, and they will be more trained when they reach the requirements to join a 0.0 corp or something. Sory for my english, I hope u got what I'd like to say. I was running in a gang doing vanguards with a 2 month old alt no problem. A bc is perfectly adequate so long as you fit it properly and know how to broadcast. Hull upgrades 4 and remote repair systems 4 isn't exactly the most arduous skill learning plan Of course people who have trained stupid skills early instead of support skills to 4 like they are supposed to are prob screwed.
Glyken Touchon Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Megan Maynard I really doubt that you cannot run these incursions with a fleet. There is ALWAYS a place for new pilots in a fleet. Unless the extra pilot takes the fleet over the reward threshold, where the fleet is going to come out of the site with less.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:12:00 - [38] Incursions are raid content, essentially, to put it into WoW terms. You need the skill and gear to participate.
Linna Excel	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:29:00 - [39] Originally by: The Archetect Considering Incursion is focused on Capital expansion.... Why would they make it for beginners?.. If it's for caps, why put it in the gallente starter constellation? Keep it to nullsec if its for advanced alliances and caps.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/01/2011 15:24:42 We have level 4 missions for beginners to try out their ships with. After that they should do Red vs Blue or Faction Warfare for a month, and then only then they should be ready to be an integrated part in a lean mean incursion smashing machine. Originally by: HeIIfire11 I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them. A looting / salvaging opportunity? I believe there is no loot or salvage from Sansha incursion wrecks...on the otherhand, if one could find a way to wipe entire fleets, there's plenty of player wrecks to be had - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
El Mauru Amarr Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:39:00 - [41] There is a sansha incursion plex for solo-players... just fly to a random gate - pop rats- win
Pearre Dash	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:41:00 - [42] Because the meta 2 capital mods could, like officer and deadspace mods from 0.0, be sold in Jita for a lot of money. If incursions were 0.0 only it would not only make absolutely no sense (Sansha is already established in 0.0, he's attacking the empires), but then we would have X amount of threads whining about how unfair it is that only nullsec players are allowed this chance. Incursions are raids. The only game I can think of that has raids for low level players is Dungeons & Dragons Online, and that's because what's low and mid level in DDO now was the level cap when the first raids were introduced. The scouting part IS the extent that newish players without a focused skillset can participate, because how could you possibly balance Sansha sniper battleships and elite frigates around someone rolling around in a Prophecy with a 50mm armor plate and small artilleries?
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:44:00 - [43] Actually, BCs can run the vanguard sites decently. You need to have logistics though. Alternatively, there are plenty of roles you can fill with cheap/low SP. Vanguard - Overide Logistic Array. The fleet needs a hacker to be able to overide the logistic array that is repping the sansha fleet, in the one I ran, some 4 week old noob in a merlin was our hacker, and he did fine. The hacking skill can be trained from scratch in about a days time. Vanguard - Nation Mining Colony. The fleet needs a fairly quick mining ship to mine the Lyavite rock (which is 60km from the warp in, and then to move the rock to the nation refinery when all the ships are dead. You can easily do this in a mining Vexor or whatever.) Alternatively, there is lots of ways you can be useful to a fleet without having high skills. Armor Tanked BC with Ewar - Myrmidon/Hurricane/Harbinger can all do this, they're cheap, easy to tank, and you can just load 3 target painters or something in the mids, and you're useful, especially in the Vanguard nation outpost where there are several high dps bomber frigates which the high dps in your gang will probably have problems tracking, also with 3 ewar modules, the sanshas will often target you, taking the heat off of your logistics. ECM can also be useful, TDs too. Alternatively, the same idea, but fitting remote tracking links (for your turret DPS) and remote eccm (for logistics) can also be useful. Tanked frigate with webs - Merlin with Medium shield extender, mwd, 2x webs, cheap shield resist rigs. Costs less than 2-3 million isk. Probably not going to be taken seriously in a gang, but hey, you help people apply their DPS, and stop the fast sniping cruisers from escaping out of range. You can also help haul stuff to places quickly, like taking the ore from the mining site, from a miners can into the sansha refinery. ---
Mina Hiragi Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:53:00 - [44] Originally by: Uozi We recently parted ways with the month or so of practicing how to practice efficiently (learning skills). Now a new roadblock has been setup. I can't fly a titan; this is a major roadblock. CCP to make n00btitans that I can fly around at low SP! K thx. Not that I don't agree that less pants-wettingly-frightening-for-new-players Incursion sites would be cool, but going on about roadblocks is hilarious. No, 1-3M SP players, you're not going to be able to do everything the game has to offer in your first two weeks. Deal.
Pookie McPook	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:54:00 - [45] Originally by: HeIIfire11 I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them. I think that the new avatars have brought quite enough shallow/callow newbs. Those that are prepared to put in the time will put up, shut up and grind up to the required level. Hopefully CCP will eschew the industry wide lemming-rush to dumb down a successful game just to please new players, the majority of which won't hang around whatever the content anyway. ----- Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:56:00 - [46] Im really liking Incursion atm, but i definatley aggree with OP in that there could be something for the newer players as well.
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to wait for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Fixed that for you.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Glyken Touchon Originally by: Megan Maynard I really doubt that you cannot run these incursions with a fleet. There is ALWAYS a place for new pilots in a fleet. Unless the extra pilot takes the fleet over the reward threshold, where the fleet is going to come out of the site with less. So you go into the thing with just a bunch of RR BS's. That leaves you pretty damn vunerable to alot of tactics... Some of these carebear gangs should maybe start looking at this like pvp instead of ratting. A vigil or rifter with a web or target painter can help out any heavy gang. A heavy tanked amarr destroyer will rip apart sansha frigates. And we have a guy in our corp rocking a tanked out maller that has small autocannons but has more HP then any BC the old guys can field. There is ALWAYS a role for new players, you just need to look around at the ship line ups and get creative. Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:07:00 - [49] Originally by: Megan Maynard A heavy tanked amarr destroyer will rip apart sansha frigates. And we have a guy in our corp rocking a tanked out maller that has small autocannons but has more HP then any BC the old guys can field. The coercer has 4 lows....doesn't really qualify as "heavy"
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Aessoroz Originally by: Megan Maynard A heavy tanked amarr destroyer will rip apart sansha frigates. And we have a guy in our corp rocking a tanked out maller that has small autocannons but has more HP then any BC the old guys can field. The coercer has 4 lows....doesn't really qualify as "heavy" 400 mm plate, damage control II, two EANM t2 and three trimarks has 13000 EHP, with fleet bonuses that's 15k easy. None of this is hard to get or train for. If you cannot keep that alive with some remote reps and find a use for it then you are failing rather hard. Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
Ivana Drake Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:44:00 - [51] It's nice that they're finally bringing in PvE content where you actually have to use your brain.
Kepakh	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:47:00 - [52] Originally by: Megan Maynard So you go into the thing with just a bunch of RR BS's. That leaves you pretty damn vunerable to alot of tactics... ...like?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Kepakh Originally by: Megan Maynard So you go into the thing with just a bunch of RR BS's. That leaves you pretty damn vunerable to alot of tactics... ...like? Not all of these incursions are in high sec. And 3100 dead ships in 10 hours says that maybe the remote repping isn't working as well as you think it is... Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
Kepakh	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Megan Maynard Not all of these incursions are in high sec. And 3100 dead ships in 10 hours says that maybe the remote repping isn't working as well as you think it is... Not answering the question is also an answer, thanks for proving my point.
Cunane Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:56:00 - [55] Ok, I hear this low SP stuff, and tbh there are plenty of places for the low-skilled Three examples Those stealth bombers that currently **** BS's, best counter? a couple of frigs in the group, bam early on in the fight and you have reduced a ton of incoming DPS in your crappy frigate. Just remember to use a afterburner to keep your sig as low as possible, the BS's won't hit you and the cruisers if your careful are easy to avoid, not only that they tend to ignore you. Or if you have cruiser 4? just train up Remote Rep 3, or Sensor linking/Energy transfer and blam mini logistics, not as good as a dedicated logi cruiser, but still its a useful role, or even some TP's assuming you have a heavy missile using group, those mids are going to be full of resist and buffer, a Bellicose will be a welcome and large DPS boost. Finally, if your running level 3s I assume you can fit a decent battlecruiser, in an RR group just fit for resist and buffer and go to town as a DPS. There is always the sit to the side and cry opition if any of those sound like too much work for you.
Mister Cletus	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:59:00 - [56] Originally by: Salliene Originally by: Tsetra NO you should not be handed everything on a plate. YES you should have to WORK towards some things. But there's really not much work involved, is there? Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Yay! I'm good enough now! LOL, I don't think that is the kind of work that is being referred to here. Although you have a point to an extent, your forgetting that simply training a skill does not teach you how to use those skills as a player.
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.27 07:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time. You can manage vanguards in BCs with modest t1 named/t2/faction fits, assuming you have with competent players with you i don't think it's needed let me refer to this topic: So you want to do incursions but keep dying here are some helpful hint http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456595&page=1#1 or this: Stop being terrible! A guide to incursions http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456683&page=1#1 Originally by: Comy 1 To use the fleet we used for Vanguard sites as an example that you might want to follow, think in the lines of: 3 Guardians 4 Abaddons 1 Dual web Loki 1 Random BC (in our case hurricane) 1 Random HAC (in our case zealot)
Takseen	Posted - 2011.01.27 08:52:00 - [58] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Stop being terrible! A guide to incursions http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456683&page=1#1 Originally by: Comy 1 To use the fleet we used for Vanguard sites as an example that you might want to follow, think in the lines of: 3 Guardians 4 Abaddons 1 Dual web Loki 1 Random BC (in our case hurricane) 1 Random HAC (in our case zealot) Yeah that bit caused some raised eyebrows. "Oh Incursions are easy, just bring the maximum possible number of ships to the easiest group site. Oh and half of the ships have to be tech 2/tech 3". That's 1.5 billion just on the ship hulls right there.
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:04:00 - [59] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/01/2011 09:04:49 Well reasonable that i am I have to agree with the OP. The thing that differentiates Incursions from all the other content is that it has a player number limitation. A starting player can help in L4s without causing you to get no LP or rewards, same for wormholes or PvP or mining or whatever. With incursions, you could spoil it for the rest of the fleet so you better don't come at all as a new player. This is a radical change to EVE's game mechanics, it's almost like "this dungeon is meant for 8 players which must be above level 60". It's very un-EVEish, not very sandboxy.
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:08:00 - [60] Yes, make low skill incursions, because high skill players certainly won't do them earlier and more efficiently.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:28:00 - [61] noobs dont matter just buy plex sell plex buy toon profit
Eastman Color	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:36:00 - [62] derp derp, I R LVL 1, why I no kill Liche King?
Truespeaker	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:39:00 - [63] Dear CCP, I am a 2yr old industrial character, why is there no content for me?! I have been training skills for 2 years and now you introduce new content that i cannot use, what on earth are you thinking about? I can ply a badger an i have 7m but i can't help with incursions. whine whine whine blah blah blah... See what i did there?
Peik deLeaf Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:45:00 - [64] incursion for low sp players: grab a cheap frigate or get an ibis, warp into a incursion site, instantly engage warp when you arrive and loot as many wrecks as you can before you start warping away, if the sansha destroy your ship before you can warp out just go get a new one
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:46:00 - [65] Originally by: Truespeaker Dear CCP, I am a 2yr old industrial character, why is there no content for me?! I have been training skills for 2 years and now you introduce new content that i cannot use, what on earth are you thinking about? I can ply a badger an i have 7m but i can't help with incursions. whine whine whine blah blah blah... See what i did there? I see. You didn't understand what is this topic about :D
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Peik deLeaf incursion for low sp players: grab a cheap frigate or get an ibis, warp into a incursion site, instantly engage warp when you arrive and loot as many wrecks as you can before you start warping away, if the sansha destroy your ship before you can warp out just go get a new one half the sites dont allow rookie ships t1 frigs are fine tho
mkint	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:50:00 - [67] 35 mil SP player here sounding in: I'm looking forward to using a cheap fit BC for incursion sites. Not willing to risk a battleship or an expensive fit until I get some blues set up and have a fleet I can trust. Battlecruiser will suffice until I know I can trust my fleet to not CONCORD-gank my maxed out logi.
My Postman	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:49:00 - [68] OP has a point, that he/she won¦t take the low skilled BC to a incursion, when hearing Sansha FRIGS are dealing 1000 dps omni. But IF such a thing would be introduced, it would be run by the 60m SP loki guy with his two alts. Hard to find a role in such an endeavour for a low skilled newbie, especially when even vets struggle and lose their ships. When some time passes by ppl will know better how to do the sites effectively, and then there might be roles for low skilled ppl as well. Main damage dealers/logis will always be for experianced/high skilled players. But as i said in the beginning, OP has a point.
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:55:00 - [69] Originally by: My Postman OP has a point, that he/she won¦t take the low skilled BC to a incursion, when hearing Sansha FRIGS are dealing 1000 dps omni. But IF such a thing would be introduced, it would be run by the 60m SP loki guy with his two alts. Hard to find a role in such an endeavour for a low skilled newbie, especially when even vets struggle and lose their ships. When some time passes by ppl will know better how to do the sites effectively, and then there might be roles for low skilled ppl as well. Main damage dealers/logis will always be for experianced/high skilled players. But as i said in the beginning, OP has a point. He wont be able to run it with T3 or T2 ships because of the ship restrictions.
Lynx Borealis	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Lyndsey Love I'm a level 3 mission runner, and I can only go for 50.000 ISK sites or nowhere. Or I have to wait 1-2-3 months to train for Vanguards... Why CCP forget players around 3-10 million SP? There should be a new incursion stage below Vanguard and above the first. Maybe restricted to battlecruisers or something. You are a fool. How come day one pilot can pvp, but not pve? When I came back to eve, I fitted rifter and went PVP straight away. Training a pvp fleet able battlecruiser takes just 1-2 weeks, at most. Training a pvp fleet able frigate skills takes just 1-2 days, at most. In PVP fleets, everyone has their own role. Some are tacklers, some are damage dealers, some are ewar, some are logistics. OP clearly doesn't have a clue, that Incursion sites needs new players in frigates fitted with two webbers to slow down those Sansha frigates. All this whining about incursion sites comes from carebears, who thought that their pimped ships could take massive Sansha fleets by themselves, like they do in L4s. You were wrong. Now go X up and fly in fleet and bring a ship that has a role.
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:14:00 - [71] Originally by: Lynx Borealis Training a pvp fleet able battlecruiser takes just 1-2 weeks, at most. Training a pvp fleet able frigate skills takes just 1-2 days, at most. ...
Awesome Tough Guy	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Lynx Borealis Originally by: Lyndsey Love I'm a level 3 mission runner, and I can only go for 50.000 ISK sites or nowhere. Or I have to wait 1-2-3 months to train for Vanguards... Why CCP forget players around 3-10 million SP? There should be a new incursion stage below Vanguard and above the first. Maybe restricted to battlecruisers or something. You are a fool. How come day one pilot can pvp, but not pve? When I came back to eve, I fitted rifter and went PVP straight away. Training a pvp fleet able battlecruiser takes just 1-2 weeks, at most. Training a pvp fleet able frigate skills takes just 1-2 days, at most. In PVP fleets, everyone has their own role. Some are tacklers, some are damage dealers, some are ewar, some are logistics. OP clearly doesn't have a clue, that Incursion sites needs new players in frigates fitted with two webbers to slow down those Sansha frigates. All this whining about incursion sites comes from carebears, who thought that their pimped ships could take massive Sansha fleets by themselves, like they do in L4s. You were wrong. Now go X up and fly in fleet and bring a ship that has a role. This is the best post in the thread
Lyndsey Love	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:21:00 - [73] Originally by: Awesome Tough Guy This is the best post in the thread Definitely. Older pilots like to forget about what skills a new player need to success. That is reflects in a lot of posts where older players give advices to new pilots...
My Postman	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:53:00 - [74] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: My Postman OP has a point, that he/she won¦t take the low skilled BC to a incursion, when hearing Sansha FRIGS are dealing 1000 dps omni. But IF such a thing would be introduced, it would be run by the 60m SP loki guy with his two alts. Hard to find a role in such an endeavour for a low skilled newbie, especially when even vets struggle and lose their ships. When some time passes by ppl will know better how to do the sites effectively, and then there might be roles for low skilled ppl as well. Main damage dealers/logis will always be for experianced/high skilled players. But as i said in the beginning, OP has a point. He wont be able to run it with T3 or T2 ships because of the ship restrictions. I¦ve never seen an encounter allowing a BC and NOT allowing a Cruiser sized vessel, even it¦s a T3. But of course this could be done by CCP. Ok so he¦s got to take in 3 high skilled Drakes. Or 2 high skilled drakes and a logi. Protip: There are a lot of ppl here, only trying to circumvent game mechanics for what they are ment for. And usually they are so sucsessful, CCP has to make a "fix" afterwards.
Phoehnix	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:55:00 - [75] Originally by: Lyndsey Love Originally by: Awesome Tough Guy This is the best post in the thread Definitely. Older pilots like to forget about what skills a new player need to success. That is reflects in a lot of posts where older players give advices to new pilots... This is not what it is about. In EVE you can't possibly expect to out-tank or out-DPS much older players, but there are several other roles to fill, read the post again.
Spurty Caldari V0LTA	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:58:00 - [76] Welcome to the 'SANDBOX', be warned though, not all kids are the same age and the antisocial ones that refuse to play with others have a very limited avenues of fun. Have a nice day now. Hoppit!
Takseen	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:25:00 - [77] The Scout sites are respawning properly now so there's atleast something for the newer or unfleeted folks to do, pretty nice.
Salliene Gallente Cowboys and Beach Bums	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:33:00 - [78] Originally by: Truespeaker Dear CCP, I am a 2yr old industrial character, why is there no content for me?! I have been training skills for 2 years and now you introduce new content that i cannot use, what on earth are you thinking about? I can ply a badger an i have 7m but i can't help with incursions. whine whine whine blah blah blah... See what i did there? Completely miss the point and make yourself look like an idiot? Yeah we saw it.
Takseen	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:37:00 - [79] I just saw 2 Domis and a Rokh tanking(and slowly dpsing) a Vanguard Mining Colony site, so I don't think Tech 2 is by any means required.
Tsetra Gallente PhunkRabbit	Posted - 2011.01.27 17:00:00 - [80] Originally by: Salliene Originally by: Tsetra NO you should not be handed everything on a plate. YES you should have to WORK towards some things. But there's really not much work involved, is there? Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Yay! I'm good enough now! While skill points are important to a degree and this is as such a factor of time over anything else, simply training skills wont provide you with RL knowledge and ability. How many school leavers go for an interview (and subsiquently get the job) for a director's possition at a big city company? They dont, you go in as a clerk or assistant and work you way up, learning and gaining experience. A player who has played since 2005 in a 1m SP char is likely to be better and more skilled (at the game not SP) than a player who has played for 6 months in a 100m SP char.

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